Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
In what grade is English grammar generally taught in the USA?
475 views
Skip to first unread message
JJ
Sep 29, 2012, 9:13:50 PM9/29/12
to
My bf is a foreign student who has to write papers in college
and, while his fluency is complete, his American English grammar is
typical of second language learners.
I figure I learned English grammar in junior high school, so my argument
to him is all we need is a 7th grade English grammar book.
Note: By "grammar", I mean sentence structure, use of punctuation, tenses,
subject vs object, verbs, prepositions, gerands, participles, etc.
But, before I head to the library for the book, I'd just like to ask:
Q: What grade is your typical English grammar taught in the USA?
and, while his fluency is complete, his American English grammar is
typical of second language learners.
I figure I learned English grammar in junior high school, so my argument
to him is all we need is a 7th grade English grammar book.
Note: By "grammar", I mean sentence structure, use of punctuation, tenses,
subject vs object, verbs, prepositions, gerands, participles, etc.
But, before I head to the library for the book, I'd just like to ask:
Q: What grade is your typical English grammar taught in the USA?
Message has been deleted
R H Draney
Sep 30, 2012, 2:28:33 AM9/30/12
to
JJ filted:
All of them, with emphasis on different aspects at each level, and abrupt
changes in paradigm every three or four years....
I got transformational grammar in ninth grade; that's probably the most formal
version of the subject for the whole twelve years...the utterly bewildering
"sentence diagramming" was only mentioned in passing by teachers who had learnt
it when their own education underwent one of those lurches years before....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
changes in paradigm every three or four years....
I got transformational grammar in ninth grade; that's probably the most formal
version of the subject for the whole twelve years...the utterly bewildering
"sentence diagramming" was only mentioned in passing by teachers who had learnt
it when their own education underwent one of those lurches years before....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Guy Barry
Sep 30, 2012, 3:45:48 AM9/30/12
to
"Lewis" wrote in message news:slrnk6fbhb....@mbp55.local...
> Consider yourself lucky if someone graduates from high school with a dim
> understanding of what a verb and a noun are. An adverb would be a word
> you add to a verb,
Well it is. Sometimes.
> and a pronoun is a noun that's lost its amateur status.
Well why not? Pronouns are "professional nouns" if you like - after all,
they do the work of nouns.
--
Guy Barry
Opinicus
Sep 30, 2012, 4:17:15 AM9/30/12
to
On 29 Sep 2012 23:28:33 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net>
wrote:
> the utterly bewildering
> "sentence diagramming" was only mentioned in passing by teachers who had learnt
> it when their own education underwent one of those lurches years before
I LOVED sentence diagramming. I still use it in my work in order to
parse out a particularly intractable sentence that needs to be
translated.
--
Bob
http://www.kanyak.com
wrote:
> the utterly bewildering
> "sentence diagramming" was only mentioned in passing by teachers who had learnt
> it when their own education underwent one of those lurches years before
parse out a particularly intractable sentence that needs to be
translated.
--
Bob
http://www.kanyak.com
Opinicus
Sep 30, 2012, 4:19:05 AM9/30/12
to
> >Q: What grade is your typical English grammar taught in the USA?
> All of them, with emphasis on different aspects at each level
This is the correct answer. In the earlier years grammar tends to be
> All of them, with emphasis on different aspects at each level
presented under the guise of "spelling".
--
Bob
http://www.kanyak.com
R H Draney
Sep 30, 2012, 5:02:51 PM9/30/12
to
Opinicus filted:
Ooh, you may be just the person I need...I'd love to see a diagram of:
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
buffalo.
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
buffalo.
R H Draney
Sep 30, 2012, 5:05:55 PM9/30/12
to
Opinicus filted:
Maybe in the *very* early years...I remember a switch from "principal parts" of
verbs ("go, going, went, gone") to tenses suddenly becoming separate elements
that could become detached from their associated verbs and take up with other
words...(the later worldview would be most helpful in our periodic discussions
of "didn't use to")....r
verbs ("go, going, went, gone") to tenses suddenly becoming separate elements
that could become detached from their associated verbs and take up with other
words...(the later worldview would be most helpful in our periodic discussions
of "didn't use to")....r
Snidely
Oct 13, 2012, 3:14:01 PM10/13/12
to
R H Draney speculated:
I got transformational grammar in my 8th grade year, the 2nd year it
was offered at my Jr High. The year before I had a sketchy
introduction to traditional diagramming, with the result that I know of
it but can't do a thing with it.
Since this was about 45 years ago, the books we used were still cheap
booklets from the printshop at the University of Oregon, where the
curriculum was developed. But we got workbooks, too, which was a lot
of help.
(Later on, taking Computer Science courses that touched on automata and
compiler design, I got to see parse tree diagrams again, and felt quite
comfortable with them.)
Prior to 7th grade, we had very light-weight introductions to parts of
speech, but the emphasis early on was on vocabulary.
After 9th grade, we revisited grammar from time to time, but focussed
more on literature.
My studies in French (Jr High) and German (Sr High and College) covered
some grammar, of course, and I can say "passe' compose'" and "plusquam
perfect" with some idea of what they mean, but I am still catching up
with everyone in AUE about "progressive past" and various "future" ,
um, moods because the the 7th grade class didn't get that far, and the
8th grade class essentially lost a year in the transition.
(I could have opted for Latin in high school, and sometimes I think I
should have, but I think the German was worth it.)
As for my kids, now more or less grown, I'm not sure about when grammar
was in their curriculum, because I was the non-custodial parent during
their Jr High and Sr High years, and they changed schools more than
once.
/dps
--
Who, me? And what lacuna?
was offered at my Jr High. The year before I had a sketchy
introduction to traditional diagramming, with the result that I know of
it but can't do a thing with it.
Since this was about 45 years ago, the books we used were still cheap
booklets from the printshop at the University of Oregon, where the
curriculum was developed. But we got workbooks, too, which was a lot
of help.
(Later on, taking Computer Science courses that touched on automata and
compiler design, I got to see parse tree diagrams again, and felt quite
comfortable with them.)
Prior to 7th grade, we had very light-weight introductions to parts of
speech, but the emphasis early on was on vocabulary.
After 9th grade, we revisited grammar from time to time, but focussed
more on literature.
My studies in French (Jr High) and German (Sr High and College) covered
some grammar, of course, and I can say "passe' compose'" and "plusquam
perfect" with some idea of what they mean, but I am still catching up
with everyone in AUE about "progressive past" and various "future" ,
um, moods because the the 7th grade class didn't get that far, and the
8th grade class essentially lost a year in the transition.
(I could have opted for Latin in high school, and sometimes I think I
should have, but I think the German was worth it.)
As for my kids, now more or less grown, I'm not sure about when grammar
was in their curriculum, because I was the non-custodial parent during
their Jr High and Sr High years, and they changed schools more than
once.
/dps
--
Who, me? And what lacuna?
erilar
Oct 14, 2012, 4:11:55 PM10/14/12
to
It varies so greatly and has done so in the past as well that there
really is no "generally". For several years, I taught German in a high
school where the high school English teachers taught NO formal grammar,
according to some of my better German students' comments and reactions
to German grammar. I believe, however, that an 8th-grade English
teacher they had to have had on the way to high school DID teach grammar.
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
really is no "generally". For several years, I taught German in a high
school where the high school English teachers taught NO formal grammar,
according to some of my better German students' comments and reactions
to German grammar. I believe, however, that an 8th-grade English
teacher they had to have had on the way to high school DID teach grammar.
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
0 new messages