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Dogan as a term for Catholic

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dog...@bigfoot.com

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Jan 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/18/99
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Is Dogan, when used as a term for a Catholic. strictly a Canadianism?
I've heard it used in Canada on occasion but never elsewhere. And any
idea on the origin?

Thanks.....

JUST AN H

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Jan 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/19/99
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>Is Dogan, when used as a term for a Catholic. strictly a Canadianism?
>I've heard it used in Canada on occasion but never elsewhere. And any
>idea on the origin?

I've never heard it used here in the States, so perhaps it's a strictly
Canadian word.

As for it's origin, I wonder if "Dogan" might not have anything to do with the
Catholic Doges of ancient Venice?

Pk2222

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Jan 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/19/99
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I've never heard it in the States, either, but hazarding a guess based on Irish
immigration into Canada, I'd be more inclined to believe that it's a corruption
of "Dugan". After all, there are at least *several* more Mics in Toronto than
Venitians.

pk

JUST AN H

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Jan 20, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/20/99
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"Mics?" I'm going to start a new message about this.

J.

Pk2222

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Jan 20, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/20/99
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>"Mics?"

Don't bother. It signifies Irish. In New York, it's been transmorgified into
"BIC" for "Bronx Irish Catholic".

pk

13maure...@gmail.com

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May 22, 2018, 10:35:39 PM5/22/18
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On Monday, January 18, 1999 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-8, dog...@bigfoot.com wrote:
> Is Dogan, when used as a term for a Catholic. strictly a Canadianism?
> I've heard it used in Canada on occasion but never elsewhere. And any
> idea on the origin?
>
> Thanks.....

I don't think it is used anywhere except in Canada, and it is not considered offensive by any Canadian Catholic that I know. It was probably meant as an insult at one time, like "Canuck" but it is difficult to insult Canadians by calling us names. We never believe anyone really wants to insult us and so we know it must be a joke, and if we like the name, we adopt it. How Dogan relates to Irish Catholics beats me. It is certainly used (in English) by French Canadian Catholics to refer to themselves. I've looked for the origin a number of times in a number of places, but the origin seems to be lost in the mists of time.

Madrigal Gurneyhalt

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May 23, 2018, 7:00:32 AM5/23/18
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OED believes it to be a simple extension of the Irish surname Dogan.
Although it's more usually a forename that gets this kind of treatment,
eg. Jock, Paddy, it's common for a name to become representative of
a whole racial or cultural group. There's probably even a fancy name
for the phenomenon.

Anton Shepelev

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May 23, 2018, 8:38:36 AM5/23/18
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13maureenathome:

>It was probably meant as an insult at one time,
>like "Canuck" but it is difficult to insult Canadi-
>ans by calling us names. We never believe anyone
>really wants to insult us and so we know it must be
>a joke

I don't think you can switch persons that way while
referring to the same people. Say either "Canadi-
ans" and "them" or "us Canadians" and "us". "We
Canadians believe" may help to avoid confusion.

--
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ http://preview.tinyurl.com/qcy6mjc [archived]

Anton Shepelev

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May 23, 2018, 8:39:36 AM5/23/18
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I wrote to 13maureenathome:

>>It was probably meant as an insult at one time,
>>like "Canuck" but it is difficult to insult Cana-
>>dians by calling us names. We never believe any-
>>one really wants to insult us and so we know it
>>must be a joke
>
>I don't think you can switch persons that way while
>referring to the same people.

Switch person (omit the s).

HVS

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May 23, 2018, 11:35:55 AM5/23/18
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On 23 May 2018, wrote
Just in case someone's been patiently waiting 19 years for this discussion,
here's the OED entry:


dogan, n.

Frequency (in current use): Band 2 (Band 2 contains words which occur
fewer than 0.01 times per million words in typical modern English usage.
These are almost exclusively terms which are not part of normal discourse
and would be unknown to most people.)

Origin: Probably from a proper name, combined with an English element.

Etymology: Probably < Dogan, an Irish surname, although perhaps compare
also dugon n....

N. Amer. (esp. Canad.) slang (derogatory and offensive). A Roman Catholic,
esp. an Irish Roman Catholic.

1847 Daily Sentinel & Gaz. (Milwaukee, Wisconsin) 20 Mar. (Electronic
text) Irishmen and foreigners of all nations had no right to vote in any
less than five years, as they were a lot of ignoramus dogans.

1854 Hamilton (Ont.) Gaz. 15 May 2/7 I would be overly liberal if I
estimated their number as a couple of Dogans!

1933 ‘P. Slater’ Yellow Briar (1934) ii. 22 Many a time I got a smart
clout on the lug and was told to take that for a dirty little dogan.

1964 M. Laurence Stone Angel ix. 232 Her and me are friends. I kid her.
I pray, too, I says to her, what do you think of that, you old dogan?

1996 S. Swan in Granta Autumn 171 I was a Protestant whose best friend
was a dogan, a mick.


--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed


Colonel Edmund J. Burke

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May 23, 2018, 2:04:48 PM5/23/18
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Sounds pretty macho if ya axe me.

howar...@gmail.com

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Jan 13, 2020, 12:34:46 PM1/13/20
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I am a Dogan, a poor Irish Catholic and the name originated in England,where signs read No Irishmen or Dogs wanted.I wear the name with pride

toro...@gmail.com

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Jul 3, 2020, 12:36:13 AM7/3/20
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toro...@gmail.com

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Jul 3, 2020, 12:39:12 AM7/3/20
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On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 at 2:04:48 PM UTC-4, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:
> Sounds pretty macho if ya axe me.

I recall hearing it in Toronto in the 1940s.
It was a casual term, which I heard used without any malicious intent.
It was not used in my United Church home. I'm sure that I never spoke it myself.

Phil Hobbs

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Jul 6, 2020, 7:15:03 PM7/6/20
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Duggan is an ordinary Irish men's name.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Jonay dogan

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Dec 30, 2022, 12:36:28 PM12/30/22
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I am a Dogan my grandparents came from Hungary so it is a Hungarian name it is not Irish !

wugi

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Dec 31, 2022, 7:17:25 PM12/31/22
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Op 30/12/2022 om 18:36 schreef Jonay dogan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogan
Irish (actually Dugan or Duggan) or Turkish (Doğan).

To me it seems more Serb or Croat; IIRC that's what a former collegue of
mine, named Dogan, said of his descent, lineage or whatyecallit. But
himself was a typical Belgian francophone, speaking no other languages.

--
guido wugi
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