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pugilistic: Walker, 40, was found "in a pugilistic stance."
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Danny D'Amico
Jan 4, 2014, 10:29:53 AM1/4/14
to
"After hitting a tree and a lamp, "the vehicle was almost split in half . . .
the majority of the vehicle was also charred" in the blaze that followed.
Walker, 40, was found "charred and in a pugilistic stance."
http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/celebrities/20140104_Sideshow_.html
Pugilistic, meant, to me, "boxing", which makes no sense.
Googling, I find that is the only meaning!
Is it a typo?
Otherwise, it makes little sense, other than to say he was in
a boxing stance, but, that implies action, and I would think
a coroner would have a better description than a "fighting stance".
Although maybe I misinterpret what was meant?
the majority of the vehicle was also charred" in the blaze that followed.
Walker, 40, was found "charred and in a pugilistic stance."
http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/celebrities/20140104_Sideshow_.html
Pugilistic, meant, to me, "boxing", which makes no sense.
Googling, I find that is the only meaning!
Is it a typo?
Otherwise, it makes little sense, other than to say he was in
a boxing stance, but, that implies action, and I would think
a coroner would have a better description than a "fighting stance".
Although maybe I misinterpret what was meant?
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Jan 4, 2014, 11:29:02 AM1/4/14
to
I understand " a pugilistic stance" to be the position of a boxer when
ready to punch an opponent: both fists raised with, possibly, one in a
leading position.
There are two boxers here:
http://www.abae.co.uk/aba/cache/file/6355BDDF-04A8-4687-3923F4DFEFA3F0CC.jpg
Here are two more:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/4th_Boxing_Gala_E._Mavropoulos7.JPG
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)
Richard Owlett
Jan 4, 2014, 11:48:45 AM1/4/14
to
Danny D'Amico wrote:
> "After hitting a tree and a lamp, "the vehicle was almost split in half . . .
> the majority of the vehicle was also charred" in the blaze that followed.
> Walker, 40, was found "charred and in a pugilistic stance."
> http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/celebrities/20140104_Sideshow_.html
I read the referenced link.
> "After hitting a tree and a lamp, "the vehicle was almost split in half . . .
> the majority of the vehicle was also charred" in the blaze that followed.
> Walker, 40, was found "charred and in a pugilistic stance."
> http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/celebrities/20140104_Sideshow_.html
>
> Pugilistic, meant, to me, "boxing", which makes no sense.
> Googling, I find that is the only meaning!
> Is it a typo?
I doubt it.
> Otherwise, it makes little sense, other than to say he was in
> a boxing stance, but, that implies action, and I would think
> a coroner would have a better description than a "fighting stance".
I assume there are photo(s) in _legal_ record which philly.com
had the good taste not to publish that would make the reference
obvious.
Tony Cooper
Jan 4, 2014, 12:44:49 PM1/4/14
to
On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 15:29:53 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
<dan...@is.invalid> wrote:
<dan...@is.invalid> wrote:
in which we'd picture a boxer. We have no trouble in interpreting
"the body was in a fetal position" as a condition in which a
fully-grown adult might be found.
Then there's the "Heisman stance":
http://shatterthebackboard.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Heisman-Trophy.gif
but no bodies have been reported to have been found in that position
that I know of.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
willshak
Jan 4, 2014, 1:51:10 PM1/4/14
to
Fire causes the muscles to contract.
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @
Percival
Jan 4, 2014, 7:48:51 PM1/4/14
to
On 1/4/2014 10:51 AM, willshak wrote:
> Danny D'Amico wrote:
>> "After hitting a tree and a lamp, "the vehicle was almost split in
>> half . . . the majority of the vehicle was also charred" in the blaze
>> that followed. Walker, 40, was found "charred and in a pugilistic
>> stance."
>> http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/celebrities/20140104_Sideshow_.html
>>
>> Pugilistic, meant, to me, "boxing", which makes no sense.
>> Googling, I find that is the only meaning!
>>
>> Is it a typo?
>> Otherwise, it makes little sense, other than to say he was in a boxing
>> stance, but, that implies action, and I would think
>> a coroner would have a better description than a "fighting stance".
>>
>> Although maybe I misinterpret what was meant?
>
> Bodies that burn take on various poses due to the heat of the fire.
> Fire causes the muscles to contract.
This is the correct answer. Specifically, the largest muscles
> Danny D'Amico wrote:
>> "After hitting a tree and a lamp, "the vehicle was almost split in
>> half . . . the majority of the vehicle was also charred" in the blaze
>> that followed. Walker, 40, was found "charred and in a pugilistic
>> stance."
>> http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/celebrities/20140104_Sideshow_.html
>>
>> Pugilistic, meant, to me, "boxing", which makes no sense.
>> Googling, I find that is the only meaning!
>>
>> Is it a typo?
>> Otherwise, it makes little sense, other than to say he was in a boxing
>> stance, but, that implies action, and I would think
>> a coroner would have a better description than a "fighting stance".
>>
>> Although maybe I misinterpret what was meant?
>
> Bodies that burn take on various poses due to the heat of the fire.
> Fire causes the muscles to contract.
contract the most, driving the final posture. The pectorals (chest
muscles) pull the arms inward, the biceps (upper arm muscles) pull the
forearms up, and the forearm muscles pull the fingers into fists. The
end result is that the victim is in a nearly perfect boxer's guard posture.
The leg muscles also contract, but when the victim is belted into a
car seat there's no obvious change. When the victim is just lying on the
ground for instance, the end result is the fetal position Tony Cooper
mentioned.
Dr. HotSalt
Don Phillipson
Jan 5, 2014, 10:05:45 AM1/5/14
to
"Danny D'Amico" <dan...@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2014.01...@is.invalid...
> "After hitting a tree and a lamp, "the vehicle was almost split in half .
> . .
> the majority of the vehicle was also charred" in the blaze that followed.
> Walker, 40, was found "charred and in a pugilistic stance."
> http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/celebrities/20140104_Sideshow_.html
>
> Pugilistic, meant, to me, "boxing", which makes no sense.
> Googling, I find that is the only meaning!
This is an interesting experiment because Google failed to find
for this inquirer the answer he needed.
The "pugilistic stance" is a standard body position, popularized
in the 19th century (when boxing became standardized and legitimated
as a popular sport), viz. the position of self defence (one foot forward,
one fist forward) taken up by most boxers before a bout begins.
This body position was pictured innumerable times in newspapers
and magazines of the 19th century (the first time in history when
pictorial representation became cheap and available to everyone.)
Its cultural environment was that of boxing for recreation and
exercise, the "manly art of self defence," typically Victorian.
The pugilistic stance is thus a standard image. The notional power
of hypertext and Google is their promise to find pictures as
easily as they can find words. But they failed in this particular
test case. This suggests to me that despite its capacity to
retrieve pictorial images Google is in practice determined
completely by words: if pictures on the web have not been
identified with the right words by their providers, Google
cannot find them no matter how hard or fast it searches. It
thus remains a tool essentially different from the eye/brain
interface babies construct by trial and error, and which we
use continuously until death.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
news:pan.2014.01...@is.invalid...
> "After hitting a tree and a lamp, "the vehicle was almost split in half .
> . .
> the majority of the vehicle was also charred" in the blaze that followed.
> Walker, 40, was found "charred and in a pugilistic stance."
> http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/celebrities/20140104_Sideshow_.html
>
> Pugilistic, meant, to me, "boxing", which makes no sense.
> Googling, I find that is the only meaning!
for this inquirer the answer he needed.
The "pugilistic stance" is a standard body position, popularized
in the 19th century (when boxing became standardized and legitimated
as a popular sport), viz. the position of self defence (one foot forward,
one fist forward) taken up by most boxers before a bout begins.
This body position was pictured innumerable times in newspapers
and magazines of the 19th century (the first time in history when
pictorial representation became cheap and available to everyone.)
Its cultural environment was that of boxing for recreation and
exercise, the "manly art of self defence," typically Victorian.
The pugilistic stance is thus a standard image. The notional power
of hypertext and Google is their promise to find pictures as
easily as they can find words. But they failed in this particular
test case. This suggests to me that despite its capacity to
retrieve pictorial images Google is in practice determined
completely by words: if pictures on the web have not been
identified with the right words by their providers, Google
cannot find them no matter how hard or fast it searches. It
thus remains a tool essentially different from the eye/brain
interface babies construct by trial and error, and which we
use continuously until death.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Incubus
Jan 6, 2014, 6:40:38 AM1/6/14
to
On 04/01/2014 15:29, Danny D'Amico wrote:
> Pugilistic, meant, to me, "boxing", which makes no sense.
> Googling, I find that is the only meaning!
Pugilistic: pertaining to boxing.
> Pugilistic, meant, to me, "boxing", which makes no sense.
> Googling, I find that is the only meaning!
Whiskers
Jan 6, 2014, 9:56:08 AM1/6/14
to
term or jargon used by those responsible for analysing the circumstances
and causes of unexpected deaths, and is diagnostic of exposure to heat
or fire around the time of death.
<http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1975728-overview> "Forensic
Pathology of Thermal Injuries" (*NOT for the squeamish!!*)
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Danny D'Amico
Jan 7, 2014, 11:26:53 PM1/7/14
to
On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 14:56:08 +0000, Whiskers wrote:
> <http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1975728-overview> "Forensic
> Pathology of Thermal Injuries" (*NOT for the squeamish!!*)
Aha! I see. It's a technical term of coroners!
> <http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1975728-overview> "Forensic
> Pathology of Thermal Injuries" (*NOT for the squeamish!!*)
I see in that document the following caption:
"Pugilistic attitude as a result of heat-related contractures."
Thanks.
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