What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, maternal ?
Shaft Drive
- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.
But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?
I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".
Hence my question:
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?
Stephen Oakes
sororal
--
Stephen Oakes
John O'Flaherty
Sororal appears in AHD, though it's not commonly heard.
See how they react to 'sibbish'.
--
john
Tony Cooper
<motorcycle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Sororal" is the form for sister, but no reader of the form would have
the slightest idea of what you meant.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL
Harry
> What is the female equivalent of fraternal?
This came up in a recent online chat in which I was participating, and my
rather flippant reply was that perhaps "sororal" shout fit. Turns out that
it's in many dictionaries, with a definition of "sisterly," or "like or
characteristic of or befitting a sister," etc. I'd never seen or heard it
used before, but you just never know...
hm
don groves
Cooper at tony_co...@earthlink.net hath writ:
Not even one who knows about Fraternities nad Sororities?
--
dg (domain=ccwebster)
Tony Cooper
After I posted, I was thinking that the National Recording Secretary
of Chi Omega would probably know the word. However, my daughter - who
is a Chi Omega - wouldn't.
nullp...@verizon.net
<motorcycle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>What is the female equivalent of fraternal?
Sororal, as already provided. U.S. sororities might use it in their
publications. It occassionally appears in legal documents though it
is not a preferred term, "sisterly" being sufficient and plain in
meaning most of the time. Example: "X and Y, sisters, agree that X's
provision of ova and/or other genetic material to Y occurs due to
sororal affection alone; no contractual understanding or bargain or
expectation of legal consideration, either to the other, shall be
regarded as existing in association with their sororal agreement."
>But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?
"Sister". Sororal is an adjective. The proper name of the
relationship of a sibling sister to a sibling brother is "sister".
>I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
>properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
>"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
>Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
>relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".
The proper label or name of your relationship to your children is
"father". "Paternal" would be useful as an adjective, such as in "X,
while an active paternal caregiver, has not achieved psychological
presence as a parent in the minds of the subject children within the
last 3 years. They regard Y as their father, despite X being their
actual biological and legal father. Therefore X's claim that the
children are subject to paternal deprivation according to the Tyson
standard is false, and instead granting X's request would newly create
paternal deprivation under Tyson if X cannot in fact improve his
paternal efforts to achieve actual psychological presence as a father
in his children's minds."
"Sister" can refer to a genetic or a kinship relationship, while
"sororal" has only been used for kinship relations, which might
coincide with a genetic relationship or might not. In most US states
(and most European kinship systems I believe) genetic relationships
and kinship relationships do not necessarily mirror each other in all
details. A "blood" sister and an adopted sister are equally or
identically sisters in kinship relations, at least as kinship is
defined in most US states, though genetically they are radically
different. This is something to keep in mind when filling out medical
forms and deciding whether to use the proper "sister" or craft some
sort of complex term that lets you sneak "sororal" in.
>Hence my question:
>- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
>her brother properly called?
Sister.
meirman
<motorcycle...@yahoo.com> posted:
>What is the female equivalent of fraternal?
>
>- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
>- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
>- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.
>
>But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?
>
>I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
>properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
>"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
>Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
>relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".
I sort of agree, except that "father" is short for "My relationship is
that I am his father".
>
>Hence my question:
>- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
>her brother properly called?
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
now in Baltimore 20 years
Steve Hayes
domain)> wrote:
>In article <obev21lcr7h9u0tbb...@4ax.com>, Tony
>Cooper at tony_co...@earthlink.net hath writ:
>> "Sororal" is the form for sister, but no reader of the form would have
>> the slightest idea of what you meant.
>
>Not even one who knows about Fraternities nad Sororities?
And the Soroptomists.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Michael Rolfe
news:1110423288.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> What is the female equivalent of fraternal?
>
> - A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
> - A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
> - A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.
>
> But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?
If you want to be understood, "sisterly."
John Dean
> sororal
And sororial is also known
--
John Dean
Oxford
John Steele Gordon
"Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:obev21lcr7h9u0tbb...@4ax.com...
I once brought a sick pussycat into a veterinary hospital and had to fill
out a form with the usual information. When I got to "species" I wrote
"Felis catus." The nurse who looked over the form abruptly crossed that out
and substituted "cat." So much for scientific precision.
By the way, is there an adjective associated with "aunt"? Uncle/avuncular,
aunt/?
I wonder if there is a dictionary of adjectives. You look up the noun and it
gives you the adjective. English, for some mysterious reason, often has
Latin or Greek adjectives associated with Anglo-Saxon nouns. Heart/cardiac,
kidney/renal, liver/hepatic, stomach/gastric, dog/canine, cow/bovine,
twilight/crepuscular, etc. etc.
JSG
Harvey Van Sickle
-snip-
> By the way, is there an adjective associated with "aunt"?
> Uncle/avuncular, aunt/?
That particular one's a rather famous "missing word", I believe.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)
CE Wood
English. 1993.
avuncular (adj.)
means "typical of or suitable to an uncle"; it also has figurative
senses meaning "kind, indulgent, undemanding, sexless": His
treatment of her was more avuncular than amorous. It's perhaps a
cliché in its most frequent company, avuncular advice. A curiosity:
English has no similar adjective to deal with matters or qualities
typical of an aunt: auntish and auntlike are about as close as we can
come."
CE Wood
D. Spencer Hines
AUNT.
AMITAN ---- referring to a father's sister.
MATERTERAN ---- referring to a mother's sister.
Or, simply choose one over the other and use it all the time --
MATERTERAN will do.
That's what we have already done with AVUNCULAR -- from AVUNCULUS, a
mother's brother.
If we wanted to be more precise and sticklers we should probably be
saying:
PATRUUSAN when referring to a father's brother -- from PATRUUS.
But English takes liberties and simplifies -- which is one of its
geniuses.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
Harvey Van Sickle
> One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
> AUNT.
Of course one *can* do so.
But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.
Don Phillipson
news:1110423288.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> What is the female equivalent of fraternal?
>
> - A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
> - A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
> - A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.
>
> But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?
English lacks discrete terms for all likely
close relationships. Most obviously brother's
relationships with his siblings are usually called
fraternal, whether with girls or boys. No unique
word identifies a male's relationship with his sister
or a woman's with her brother.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
D. Spencer Hines
COIN your own word if you see the need to do so.
That's the way a language grows.
COIN it, DEFINE it, USE it....
Duck Soup....
Don't fraudulently truncate my posts without proper indications of
having done so -- using ELLIPSES. Vide infra.
Do learn how to spell ENGLISH too.
It's especially important to do so when you are posting to English
Language Usage groups. Vide infra.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
--------------------------
One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.
AMITAN ---- referring to a father's sister.
MATERTERAN ---- referring to a mother's sister.
Or, simply choose one over the other and use it all the time --
MATERTERAN will do.
That's what we have already done with AVUNCULAR -- from AVUNCULUS, a
mother's brother.
If we wanted to be more precise and sticklers we should probably be
saying:
PATRUUSAN when referring to a father's brother -- from PATRUUS.
But English takes liberties and simplifies -- which is one of its
geniuses.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Harvey Van Sickle" <harve...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9615D928...@194.168.222.124...
| On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote
|
| > One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
| > AUNT.
|
| Of course one *can* do so.
|
| But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
| Enlgish [sic] *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do
Harvey Van Sickle
> Irrelevant.
> COIN your own word if you see the need to do so.
> That's the way a language grows.
> COIN it, DEFINE it, USE it....
And if no one else adopts it, it fails to become part of the languagee:
it doesn't "catch", it dies.
An adjective for "aunt" has never caught on. It is therefore not part
of the language.
Q.E.D.
Stephen Oakes
"D. Spencer Hines" <pogue...@hotmail.com> wrote...
> Don't fraudulently truncate my posts without proper indications of
> having done so -- using ELLIPSES. Vide infra.
Get your hand off it.
--
Stephen Oakes
Stephen Oakes
"Michael Rolfe" <mum...@maths.uct.a.za> wrote...
> If you want to be understood, "sisterly."
Personally I don't think that is specific enough. You can have a "sisterly"
relationship with someone who is not your sister.
--
Stephen Oakes
Joanne Marinelli
>
> > One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
> > AUNT.
>
> Of course one *can* do so.
>
> But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
> Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.
>
arguably now in the minority.
Joanne
Harvey Van Sickle
>
> "Harvey Van Sickle" <harve...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9615D928...@194.168.222.124...
>> On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote
>>
>>> One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical
>>> of an AUNT.
>>
>> Of course one *can* do so.
>>
>> But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular"
>> -- Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do
>> so.
>>
> Why this particular qualification? English as it is spoken by
> Englishmen is arguably now in the minority.
Entirely my error; sorry.
I realised after I posted it that I was thinking of -- and should have
written -- "English as it is spoken by speakers of English".
Paul Wolff
<harve...@ntlworld.com> writes
>On 10 Mar 2005, John Steele Gordon wrote
>
>-snip-
>
>> By the way, is there an adjective associated with "aunt"?
>> Uncle/avuncular, aunt/?
>
>That particular one's a rather famous "missing word", I believe.
>
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo!
don groves
Hines at pogue...@hotmail.com hath writ:
You're Albert Silverman aren't you?
--
dg (domain=ccwebster)
Charles Riggs
<pogue...@hotmail.com> wrote:
...
Here's an event not to be overlooked: a return of The Dispenser.
Where's Bob Lieblich when we need him?
--
Charles Riggs
There are no accented letters in my email address
de...@yahoo.com
Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
> On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote
>
> > Irrelevant.
> > COIN your own word if you see the need to do so.
> > That's the way a language grows.
> > COIN it, DEFINE it, USE it....
He's right! Look at what the ghetti have done!
de...@yahoo.com
Joanne Marinelli wrote:
> "Harvey Van Sickle" <harve...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9615D928...@194.168.222.124...
> > On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote
> >
> > > One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of
an
> > > AUNT.
> >
> > Of course one *can* do so.
> >
> > But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
> > Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.
> >
> Why this particular qualification? English as it is spoken by
Englishmen is
> arguably now in the minority.
>
OMFG!! LOLOLOLOL! It's like a terrorist convenetion in here! Quick,
someone invite Yassir Arafat! I NEVER thought I'd live to see the day
when DHS and Marinutti were having a ACTUAL CONVO wit each other!
Quick, get Bun Mui & Shaa Kaa Khan too!
de...@yahoo.com
Charles Riggs wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:40:06 -0000, "D. Spencer Hines"
> <pogue...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> Here's an event not to be overlooked: a return of The Dispenser.
> Where's Bob Lieblich when we need him?
> --
> Charles Riggs
LOLOLOL! Riggs, I don't know about you, but I just creamed my pants
over this! I can now die a happy man! This is GREAT! Liebs is
missing all the fun! I'ma be PARTAYING IN DA GHETTO all night long!!
I haven't been this happy in the AUE since poor CJ left! FREE CJ!
Evan Kirshenbaum
I'd say that all of the others--"fraternal", "maternal", "paternal",
"avuncular", etc.--can be extended metaphorically as well.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Ye knowe ek, that in forme of speche
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | is chaunge
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Withinne a thousand yer, and wordes
| tho
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |That hadden prys now wonder nyce and
(650)857-7572 | straunge
|Us thenketh hem, and yet they spake
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | hem so
| Chaucer
Stephen Oakes
"Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote...
>> "Michael Rolfe" <mum...@maths.uct.a.za> wrote...
>>> If you want to be understood, "sisterly."
>>
>> Personally I don't think that is specific enough. You can have a
>> "sisterly" relationship with someone who is not your sister.
>
> I'd say that all of the others--"fraternal", "maternal", "paternal",
> "avuncular", etc.--can be extended metaphorically as well.
Possibly. Think of it this way then...a "sororal" nephew is not the same as
a "sisterly" nephew. :-)
As you were...
--
Stephen Oakes
Michael Mendelsohn
> On 10 Mar 2005, John Steele Gordon wrote
> > Uncle/avuncular, aunt/?
>
> That particular one's a rather famous "missing word", I believe.
If you need one, use "auntistic" or "auntastic", depending on whether
your aunt is more artistic or fantastic. ;)
Cheers
Michael
--
It's silly talking about how many years we will have to spend
in the jungles of Vietnam when we could pave the whole country
and put parking stripes on it and still be home by Christmas.
-- Ronald Reagan, October 10, 1965
Bill McCray
We could coin "sibular".
Bill
Swap first and last parts of username and ISP for address.
Mike Lyle
> On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote
>
>> One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of
an
>> AUNT.
>
> Of course one *can* do so.
>
> But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
> Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.
I'm not planning to join the thread, but Google tells me nobody's
mentioned the impeccable and potentially useful coinage "auntly".
OED1 has two examples, both from letters by Victorian women. I think
I've occasionally heard it in conversation; and wouldn't be at all
surprised to find it in, for example, Wodehouse.
Mike.
Harvey Van Sickle
It's an excellent suggestion, as it sounds entirely normal -- but
although it should perhaps be more widely used, I don't think it's in
common circulation.
Paul Wolff
<mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> writes
[1] St John of Damascus[2] (to make the reference quite clear).
[2] Whose best-seller was The Fount of Knowledge, (to lead the horses
even closer to water[3]).
[3] Or to milk, in this case[4].
[4] A passing allusion to casein, the principal albuminous constituent
thereof.
Graeme Wall
Michael Mendelsohn <inv...@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de> wrote:
> Harvey Van Sickle schrieb:
> > On 10 Mar 2005, John Steele Gordon wrote
> > > By the way, is there an adjective associated with "aunt"?
> > > Uncle/avuncular, aunt/?
> >
> > That particular one's a rather famous "missing word", I believe.
>
> If you need one, use "auntistic" or "auntastic", depending on whether
> your aunt is more artistic or fantastic. ;)
>
Just hope she isn't autistic...
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>