Joni Mitchell
Charles Riggs
Some people pronounce Joni Mitchell's first name as Johnny and some
say Joanie. Does anyone here know how the great singer, song writer,
poet, and painter pronounces the name, herself? I spent some time this
morning in a prominent website devoted to her and still can't find the
answer to a question that has hounded me for years.
Yes, yes, I know that Joni is not her Christian name.
By the way:
"And you know, some girls choked and some threw up, and I took one
puff and felt really smart! I mean I just thought,"Woah!". My head
cleared up. I seemed to see better and think better. So I was a smoker
from that day on. Secretly, covertly, and I'm still smoking."
She started when she was nine.
--
Charles Riggs
David White
Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:4tvkaucp6j9oo0sjj...@4ax.com...
>
> Some people pronounce Joni Mitchell's first name as Johnny and some
> say Joanie. Does anyone here know how the great singer, song writer,
> poet, and painter pronounces the name, herself? I spent some time this
> morning in a prominent website devoted to her and still can't find the
> answer to a question that has hounded me for years.
>
> Yes, yes, I know that Joni is not her Christian name.
I didn't know that.
I don't know the answer, but I have _never_ heard a pronunciation other than
Joanie. Hardly conclusive, but I'd be quite surprised to discover that it's
wrong.
David
contrapositive
"Charles Riggs" <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:4tvkaucp6j9oo0sjj...@4ax.com...
>
R H Draney
throng:
>
>
>Some people pronounce Joni Mitchell's first name as Johnny and some
>say Joanie. Does anyone here know how the great singer, song writer,
>poet, and painter pronounces the name, herself? I spent some time this
>morning in a prominent website devoted to her and still can't find the
>answer to a question that has hounded me for years.
>
>Yes, yes, I know that Joni is not her Christian name.
Probably /'dZ@U ni/ ("Junie" in phrasebook rendition)...she *is* Canadian, after
all....r
Charles Riggs
wrote:
She is indeed. So were the "folk" singing, husband and wife pair, Ian
and Sylvia. Do you remember them? The great Judy Collins too, no?
One vote for Junie, two votes for Joanie (one very positive), and no
votes for Johnny. The game's not over `til the fat lady sings, i.e.
I'm still in suspense. My thank you to the three who have responded
thus far.
--
Charles Riggs
CyberCypher
news:6oalaukl6jntihqcb...@4ax.com:
[...]
>
> The great Judy Collins too, no?
>
I used to think that she was a terrific singer but after listening to
her stuff for a couple of years, I finally came to the conclusion that
she always sounded the same. And when she was actually singing, it was
hard to tell whether she animate. Give me Linda Ronstadt any day.
--
Franke
Eric Walker
[...]
>One vote for Junie, two votes for Joanie (one very positive),
>and no votes for Johnny. The game's not over `til the fat lady
>sings, i.e. I'm still in suspense. My thank you to the three
>who have responded thus far.
Speaking as one who was a radio DJ--at a station that played a
good bit of her work--during the years of her first stardom, I
will say that I have never, ever heard anyone, in or out of the
business, say it any way but "Joanie."
(By sheer coincidence, I happened to hear "Big Yellow Taxi"
just the other day in the background music at a diner. I had
forgotten just how pure her voice could be.)
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
Owlcroft House
Michael Mendelsohn
> >>
> >>Some people pronounce Joni Mitchell's first name as Johnny and some
> >>say Joanie. Does anyone here know how the great singer, song writer,
> >>poet, and painter pronounces the name, herself?
> One vote for Junie, two votes for Joanie (one very positive), and no
> votes for Johnny.
If the vote of folk singer Pete Seeger is counted, in a live recording
he introduces a song written by her calling her "Joanie". Since he
claims in this introduction to be proud to call her a friend, I'm sure
he knew how to say her name correctly ;-)
Have fun with folk music
Michael Mendelsohn
--
Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun.
But I have never been able to make out the numbers.
-- anonymous kid on www.rinkworks.com/said/kidscience.shtml
Mason Barge
>
>Some people pronounce Joni Mitchell's first name as Johnny and some
>say Joanie. Does anyone here know how the great singer, song writer,
>poet, and painter pronounces the name, herself?
I went to a concert (many years ago) where she was introduced as
"Joanie". Also, I have never heard it pronounced "Johnny".
--
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
- Abraham Lincoln
Harvey V
wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 05:06:58 +0100, Charles Riggs
><chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>
>>
>> Some people pronounce Joni Mitchell's first name as Johnny and some
>> say Joanie. Does anyone here know how the great singer, song writer,
>> poet, and painter pronounces the name, herself?
>
> I went to a concert (many years ago) where she was introduced as
> "Joanie". Also, I have never heard it pronounced "Johnny".
>
I grew up in Canada in the 1960s knowing her music, and also have never
heard it as other than "Joanie".
--
Cheers,
Harvey
Charles Riggs
I wish it were in my power to give you Linda. I love them both, but if
I could keep Judy, I'd let Linda go.
Charles Riggs
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
I truly think she is one of a kind in her genre of music. She's also
very bright and has been around, I gather. I don't mean that as an
insult. I have only one of her CDs and plan to get the rest. At one
time, I had all her records.
Thanks for the info, by the way. With this many positive votes in,
Joni is pronounced Joanie. I am somewhat relieved to have that
confirmed in my mind, after several people, over the years, have
corrected me with "No, no, no, that's pronounced *Johnny*.
--
Charles Riggs
david56
I vote for Joanie. By another sheer coincidence I made a copy of The
Hissing of Summer Lawns onto my PC last week ready to be put onto a CD
so that I can listen to it in the car.
--
David
I say what it occurs to me to say.
The address is valid today, but I will change it at to keep ahead of the
spammers.
meirman
Mendelsohn <news...@michael.mendelsohn.de> posted:
>Charles Riggs schrieb:
>> >>
>> >>Some people pronounce Joni Mitchell's first name as Johnny and some
>> >>say Joanie. Does anyone here know how the great singer, song writer,
>> >>poet, and painter pronounces the name, herself?
>
>> One vote for Junie, two votes for Joanie (one very positive), and no
>> votes for Johnny.
>
>If the vote of folk singer Pete Seeger is counted, in a live recording
>he introduces a song written by her calling her "Joanie". Since he
>claims in this introduction to be proud to call her a friend, I'm sure
>he knew how to say her name correctly ;-)
Well if it is really pronounced Junie because she's from one of those
places in Canada where they talk... well you know, then she might let
it go because it is a matter of accent and not straight pronunciation.
But I've only heard Joanie. And Harvey says in Canada it is
pronounced Joanie. Unless he hears the wierd Canadian pronunciation
and uninstalls the accent.
Thank goodness it is Charles or I would say the most likely thing is
that we've just been wasting our time.
>
>Have fun with folk music
>Michael Mendelsohn
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 17 years
Wes Groleau
> Thanks for the info, by the way. With this many positive votes in,
> Joni is pronounced Joanie. I am somewhat relieved to have that
> confirmed in my mind, after several people, over the years, have
> corrected me with "No, no, no, that's pronounced *Johnny*.
They may be familiar with Joni Eareckson,
who does pronounce her name like "Johnny"
--
Wes Groleau
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau
Alan O'Brien
"Michael Mendelsohn" <news...@michael.mendelsohn.de> wrote in message
news:3CAADC95...@michael.mendelsohn.de...
> Charles Riggs schrieb:
> If the vote of folk singer Pete Seeger is counted, in a live recording
> he introduces a song written by her calling her "Joanie". Since he
> claims in this introduction to be proud to call her a friend, I'm sure
> he knew how to say her name correctly ;-)
But 'Hey Jude' was about Julian Lennon.
Alan
--
"Have fun with folk music."
-Felix Mendelssohn
Dr Robin Bignall
I certainly would not want to do you the disservice of relieving your
suspense, so I'll vote for Johnny. I use as an example that famous
song whose first line is "Frankie and Joni were lovers". The fact that
the song was probably written before you, Joni or I were born is a
mere detail.
We have on BBC Radio 4 a programme called 'Desert Island Disks' which
has been running since 1942. In it, leading personalities are asked to
choose those eight disks which would help them to survive if marooned
on a desert island. In keeping with the times, I'm thinking of
suggesting a red-hot idea called 'Mars Disks' which would cover the
800 disks which one would need in order to await the emergence of a
breathable atmosphere. I look forward to inviting you as my first
guest and having one of Joni's songs in the final slot, just before
blast-off.
--
wrmst rgrds
RB...(docrobi...@ntlworld.com)
Matti Lamprhey
> [...]
> We have on BBC Radio 4 a programme called 'Desert Island Disks' which
> has been running since 1942. In it, leading personalities are asked to
> choose those eight disks which would help them to survive if marooned
This is one of those case where the "disks" spelling is definitely
incorrect, and you only have to check the Radio Times to confirm this.
Computers have disks, but gramophones and CD players have discs. (This may
not be the case in the US, however.)
Matti
Dr Robin Bignall
Sorry Matti. Even though I don't take the Radio Times I can see that
you're right. Sue Lawlie (sp?) will never invite me aboard to hear the
seagulls.
Incidentally, that was one of my postings that I thought had vanished
into a black hole. I see your reply, but not my post. This happens all
too often.
--
wrmst rgrds
RB...(docrobi...@ntlworld.com)
Matti Lamprhey
> [...]
> into a black hole. I see your reply, but not my post. This happens all
> too often.
It looks as if you're using NTL, which many people have said runs a pretty
crappy news feed. Why not switch to the free German server? I switched
many months ago and haven't regretted it for a moment.
http://news.cis.dfn.de/
Matti
Brian Wickham
<docr...@red.sylvania> wrote:
snip
>
>I certainly would not want to do you the disservice of relieving your
>suspense, so I'll vote for Johnny. I use as an example that famous
>song whose first line is "Frankie and Joni were lovers". The fact that
>the song was probably written before you, Joni or I were born is a
>mere detail.
>
snip
>
>--
Cute, but isn't Frankie the woman and Johnny the man?
Brian Wickham
CyberCypher
news:3cad2858...@news-server.nyc.rr.com:
Yeah, and she went to Hollywood after she killed him.
--
Franke
david56
Ditto, except that it was excriciatingly slow for most of yesterday
(Thursday). Was it the same for you?
There is a danger here - our use of news.cis.dfn.de is costing NTL real
bandwidth. I hope they recognise this and are making efforts to improve
their own service, which must be cheaper to them in the long run,
bandwidth wise.
Matti Lamprhey
> Matti Lamprhey wrote:
> > "Dr Robin Bignall" <docr...@red.sylvania> wrote...
> > > [...]
> > > Incidentally, that was one of my postings that I thought had vanished
> > > into a black hole. I see your reply, but not my post. This happens all
> > > too often.
> >
> > It looks as if you're using NTL, which many people have said runs a
> > pretty crappy news feed. Why not switch to the free German server?
> > I switched many months ago and haven't regretted it for a moment.
> > http://news.cis.dfn.de/
>
> Ditto, except that it was excriciatingly slow for most of yesterday
> (Thursday). Was it the same for you?
No, it was fine. Sometimes things run slowly for me, but I can usually
trace the problem to the connection between my ISP and the wider internet.
(My ISP is not and never has been NTL, despite the implication of my earlier
post.)
Matti
david56
>
> > > It looks as if you're using NTL, which many people have said runs a
> > > pretty crappy news feed. Why not switch to the free German server?
> > > I switched many months ago and haven't regretted it for a moment.
> > > http://news.cis.dfn.de/
> >
> > Ditto, except that it was excriciatingly slow for most of yesterday
> > (Thursday). Was it the same for you?
>
> No, it was fine. Sometimes things run slowly for me, but I can usually
> trace the problem to the connection between my ISP and the wider internet.
>
> (My ISP is not and never has been NTL, despite the implication of my earlier
> post.)
NTL Cable Broadband is a joy and a wonder. Everything was working fine
yesterday except for news - I have never before seen this news server on
go slow - I switched back to NTL's news server for a few hours. But
it's fine today.
John Dean
"Matti Lamprhey" <matti-...@totally-official.com> wrote in message
news:a8iq7v$smhod$1...@ID-103223.news.dfncis.de...
acknowledgement but since then, nada.
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
david56
About 2 days in my case, although this was many months ago.
Eric Walker
[...]
>How long did it take them to approve you? I applied yonks ago
>& got an acknowledgement but since then, nada.
In my case, maybe a day, or two at most.
Matti Lamprhey
> "Matti Lamprhey" <matti-...@totally-official.com> wrote...
> >
> > [...] Why not switch to the free German server?
> acknowledgement but since then, nada.
I applied on Saturday 11th August 2001 and immediately received the
following autoresponse:
:thank you for your e-mail to DFN-CIS News Team. We will answer your
:registration request or your inquiry as soon as possible. It might take a
:short while, since the handling is not done automatically but personally.
:We kindly ask you for some patience because only by processing each mail
:manually, we can maintain our high-quality standard and minimize abuse.
:Requests for registration are usually processed during the next working
:day. After holidays or weekends the processing may take a little longer.
:When your given details have been entered into our database you will
:receive a welcome message containing all necessary information to use
:News.CIS.DFN.DE.
I received the confirmation on the following Tuesday morning, with the
password which is necessary to use the server.
So I suggest you try again, John!
Matti
Rahasya
as worshiped in Tantrism. Certainly the Germans and Swedes read it
that way.
Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote in message news:<4tvkaucp6j9oo0sjj...@4ax.com>...
> Some people pronounce Joni Mitchell's first name as Johnny and some
> say Joanie. Does anyone here know how the great singer, song writer,
> poet, and painter pronounces the name, herself? I spent some time this
> morning in a prominent website devoted to her and still can't find the
> answer to a question that has hounded me for years.
>
> Yes, yes, I know that Joni is not her Christian name.
>
> By the way:
>
> "And you know, some girls choked and some threw up, and I took one
> puff and felt really smart! I mean I just thought,"Woah!". My head
> cleared up. I seemed to see better and think better. So I was a smoker
> from that day on. Secretly, covertly, and I'm still smoking."
>
> She started when she was nine.
Peter Duncanson
<matti-...@totally-official.com> wrote:
CD players have discs all over the world. 'compact disc' is a
registered trademark (or whatever). If you use the technology
you must spell it correctly.
--
Peter D.
UK
Donna Richoux
> >
> CD players have discs all over the world. 'compact disc' is a
> registered trademark (or whatever). If you use the technology
> you must spell it correctly.
I searched the trademark database (TESS) at
http://www.uspto.gov/web/menu/tm.html
It shows that Philips trademarked "compact disc" in 1980 but abandoned
it by 1983. It's not a registered trademark. So I guess it's a whatever.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Spehro Pefhany
> CD players have discs all over the world. 'compact disc' is a
> registered trademark (or whatever). If you use the technology
> you must spell it correctly.
If it is disk-shaped, I don't see anything wrong with calling it a disk-
it is merely a less specific name for the same thing. Calling it a
"Compact Disk" would be wrong. That should apply whether one uses the
technology or not.
Best regards,
--
Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
9-11 United we Stand
contrapositive
news:3CAB2652...@ntlworld.com...
[...]
> I vote for Joanie. By another sheer coincidence I made a copy of The
> Hissing of Summer Lawns onto my PC last week ready to be put onto a CD
> so that I can listen to it in the car.
>
*Excellent* choice. "Main Street" and the title track are probably my two
faves from it. Though not by a longshot. "Harry's House" is great too...
contrapositive
news:t9rlau8jk881v8s1m...@4ax.com...
> I certainly would not want to do you the disservice of relieving your
> suspense, so I'll vote for Johnny.
There's really nothing to "vote" about here. Having worked in radio and
played her music, having all but a few of her CD's including a live CD on
which she's introduced as "Joanie," and having been a fan all of my adult
life, I assure all of you that in spite of how it could be pronounced,
should be pronounced, has been pronounced, and how you may have been told
it's pronounced, she is without a doubt "Joanie" Mitchell.
If you don't believe me, pick up "Miles of Aisles" or "Hejira" -- both are
great musical investments but relevant to the matter at hand, her name is
spoken in each (in the latter it is sung by Joni herself in "Blue Motel
Room"). I hope this puts an end to this so that we can all get back to
arguing about split infinitives and "having a wee-wee"...
-jk
Mason Barge
<contrap...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"Dr Robin Bignall" <docr...@red.sylvania> wrote in message
>news:t9rlau8jk881v8s1m...@4ax.com...
>***
>I hope this puts an end to this so that we can all get back to
>arguing about split infinitives and "having a wee-wee"...
"Having a wee-wee?" Now that is truly dangerous, since (at least on
the left side) "wee-wee" is a children's euphemism for the wee-weeing
organ. I suppose you could differentiate by reference to the room in
which you "had" the wee-wee: bathroom or kitchen.
"I'm going to the kitchen to have a wee-wee."
"Please don't, dear, you'll spoil your appetite."
--
"People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like."
-- Abraham Lincoln
Dr Robin Bignall
<bass.a...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Matti Lamprhey wrote:
>>
>> "Dr Robin Bignall" <docr...@red.sylvania> wrote...
>> > [...]
>> > Incidentally, that was one of my postings that I thought had vanished
>> > into a black hole. I see your reply, but not my post. This happens all
>> > too often.
>>
>> It looks as if you're using NTL, which many people have said runs a pretty
>> crappy news feed. Why not switch to the free German server? I switched
>> many months ago and haven't regretted it for a moment.
>> http://news.cis.dfn.de/
>
(Matti, I made a note of that for future investigation.)
>Ditto, except that it was excriciatingly slow for most of yesterday
>(Thursday). Was it the same for you?
>
>There is a danger here - our use of news.cis.dfn.de is costing NTL real
>bandwidth. I hope they recognise this and are making efforts to improve
>their own service, which must be cheaper to them in the long run,
>bandwidth wise.
Considering their financial position, if it's costing them anything
then it's likely to be curtailed! :) I've been a phone customer of NTL
for many years, and they've been my ISP for a few less than that
'many'. (Imprecision: the mark of a failing memory!) In fact, the
posts that I did not see have all appeared, just a couple of days
late, so I'll kinda stick with them and do my little bit to try to
ensure that they do have a long run to be in.
--
wrmst rgrds
RB...(docrobi...@ntlworld.com)
Dr Robin Bignall
wrote:
A mere detail. I wanted to give Charles a vote in the opposite
direction so that he knew that since it came from me, he must be
right. It's the thought that counts.
--
wrmst rgrds
RB...(docrobi...@ntlworld.com)
Dr Robin Bignall
wrote:
I'm almost sorry I made this slip, but only almost.
If anyone had asked me before I joined IBM in '67 how to spell the
word, I'd have replied without thinking d i s k. The derivation from
discus would not have occurred to me, and after '67 the disk spelling
was confirmed (American company plus computer industry) and I always
thought that disc was an affectation.
I don't remember much talk of disks or discs as I grew up. The black
things that the gramophone played were records or seventy-eights. The
ones that played longer were long players (LPs) or thirty-threes. The
smaller ones were EPs or forty-fives. I heard people described as disk
or disc jockeys but again, if I ever read about one, I'd have thought
that disc was strange. It just goes to show.
--
wrmst rgrds
RB...(docrobi...@ntlworld.com)
Richard Fontana
TESS is a database of US trademarks. It's possible for a trademark to
be registered in or otherwise valid in one country and invalid in
another, though I see no evidence that Philips owns the "compact disc"
trademark anywhere else. (Several other countries have online
searchable trademark databases.) (Philips does own
more descriptive trademarks with "compact disc" in them.) "Compact
disc" does exist as a trademark for a certain sort of cosmetics
product by Estee Lauder in several countries.
Eric Walker
[...]
>If anyone had asked me before I joined IBM in '67 how to spell
>the word, I'd have replied without thinking d i s k. . . .
The most recent usage manual I own is Garner, 1998; though its
title is _A Dictionary of Modern American Usage_, he usually
takes care to distinguish other flavors. At "disk" he has:
_Disk_ is the more usual spelling in all but four specific
meanings. _Disc_ is the spelling used for these senses:
(1) "a phonograph record"; (2) "an optical disk (as a compact
disc or video disc)"; (3) "a tool making up part of a plow";
and (4) "a component of a brake system." Otherwise, _disk_
is the preferred spelling for general reference to thin
circular objects, intervertebral disks, celestial bodies, and
computer disks.
(It is, after all, a diskette, not a discette.)
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
Webmaster, http://owlcroft.com/english/
Joe Fineman
> It shows that Philips trademarked "compact disc" in 1980 but
> abandoned it by 1983. It's not a registered trademark. So I guess
> it's a whatever.
MWC10 seems to agree. Lowercase c & d, disc not disk, and no mention
of any proprietership.
There was a long discussion of dis(c,k) on this ng in 1993 (try
googling "disk disc subfusc"). Since then, the proliferation of CDs
for software has led to a situation that is not likely to be resolved
for some time. On the side of "disc" are the following:
(1) Universal usage in the sense of a phonograph record.
(2) Common British usage. The OED says:
The earlier and better spelling is _disk_, but _disc_ is now the
usual form in British English, except in [the computer sense],
where _disk_ is commoner as a result of U.S. influence.
On the side of "disk":
(1) Almost universal technical usage in the U.S. I edit scientific &
engineering MSs, and every style book or sheet that I have ever
seen makes it "disk". Even for general usage, MWC10 gives "disk"
first.
(2) Regularity. C is very unusual at the end of an English word, and
sc is extremely rare, esp. in the U.S. -- I can think of only one
other word (subfusc) that is so spelled.
--
--- Joe Fineman j...@TheWorld.com
||: An exact answer to the wrong question may be a rough answer :||
||: to the right one. :||
Maria Conlon
Mason Barge wrote
>contrapositive wrote:
>>I hope this puts an end to this so that we can all get back to
>>arguing about split infinitives and "having a wee-wee"...
>"Having a wee-wee?" Now that is truly dangerous, since (at least
on
>the left side) "wee-wee" is a children's euphemism for the
wee-weeing
>organ. I suppose you could differentiate by reference to the room
in
>which you "had" the wee-wee: bathroom or kitchen.
>
>"I'm going to the kitchen to have a wee-wee."
>"Please don't, dear, you'll spoil your appetite."
What in the name of all that's sacred is a "wee-wee" in the kitchen?
I hope it's not making use of the kitchen sink in a manner mentioned
here before by some people I will leave unnamed. (And not to protect
the innocent, but to deny the perpetrators further publicity.)
Maria
Spehro Pefhany
> "I'm going to the kitchen to have a wee-wee."
> "Please don't, dear, you'll spoil your appetite."
In the case of at least one regular AUE contributor, it would still be
ambiguous.
Peter Duncanson
Richoux) wrote:
Interesting. I wonder what the registration state is of the
logo: "disc" in outline characters with "compact" nestling in
the space above "isc"?
However, in the cases of both "compact disc" and "diskette"
these names were introduced as the names of products and the
related technologies. As a result I would treat them as proper
names and spell them as intended by the makers.
Back in the 1960s (here in the UK) I used large fixed disk/disc
systems from two US manufacturers. One company used the
spelling "disk" and the other "disc". IIRC the companies were
CDC (Control Data Corporation) and Data Products, but I can't
remember which used which spelling. That torpedoed my previous
simple rule: disk - US, disc - UK. :-)
--
Peter D.
UK
Mason Barge
In my experience, Americans don't use "have + euphemistic noun" to
express urination. We use "take". An expression such as "have a
wee-wee" will cause perplexed expressions and a mental search to
figure out the meaning. And even "take" is not used with "wee-wee";
"wee-wee" is a good verb in Leftpondia, and one can "wee-wee" to one's
heart's delight, but we don't have them or even take them anywhere.
We can take a whiz, or a piss, or a leak, but not a wee-wee.
Anyway, "wee-wee" as a noun means not only urinary output, but also
sex organs (or more accurately external urinary organs).
Conclusion: If an American told me he was going to "go to the kitchen
and have a wee-wee" my initial reaction would be that he was going to
have something to eat. I really would not know if the person had a
cute name for Vienna sausages, or intended to pee in the sink (or was
making a joke about peeing in the sink).
--
Mason Barge
contrapositive
"Mason Barge" <masonbar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3cb0457d...@65.82.44.7...
[...]
> Conclusion: If an American told me he was going to "go to the kitchen
> and have a wee-wee" my initial reaction would be that he was going to
> have something to eat. I really would not know if the person had a
> cute name for Vienna sausages, or intended to pee in the sink (or was
> making a joke about peeing in the sink).
>
Tony Cooper
>
> Conclusion: If an American told me he was going to "go to the kitchen
> and have a wee-wee" my initial reaction would be that he was going to
> have something to eat. I really would not know if the person had a
> cute name for Vienna sausages, or intended to pee in the sink (or was
> making a joke about peeing in the sink).
>
astounding revelation. Those of us that were, might dine
out with Charles, but not dine in.
I once visited a couple that had several cats. The wife
worked for a company that did some sort of research on
in-breeding animals, and had brought home several cats that
were not playing with a full bag of kitty litter. One
climbed trees as all cats do, but tried to climb down head
first. It kept tumbling down. One (or perhaps it was the
tree climbing challenged one) would walk behind the sofa but
couldn't get out. It couldn't figure out how to move
backwards.
When I went to use the toilet, I found a cat taking a dump
in the sink. Before I could mind my manners, I blurted out
that the cat was shitting in the sink. The host laughed,
and said it did so frequently. Just after that, the wife -
who was cooking spaghetti for dinner - tipped over the
colander of draining pasta in the kitchen sink. She scooped
it up and returned it to the colander.
I didn't stay for dinner.
--
Tony Cooper aka: tony_co...@yahoo.com
Provider of Jots and Tittles
Charles Riggs
<sp...@interlog.com> wrote:
>In alt.usage.english Mason Barge <masonbar...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> "I'm going to the kitchen to have a wee-wee."
>> "Please don't, dear, you'll spoil your appetite."
>
>In the case of at least one regular AUE contributor, it would still be
>ambiguous.
My new house to be has but one storey.
--
Charles Riggs
John Dean
"Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3CB10A5D...@yahoo.com...
> Mason Barge wrote:
> >
> > Conclusion: If an American told me he was going to "go to the kitchen
> > and have a wee-wee" my initial reaction would be that he was going to
> > have something to eat. I really would not know if the person had a
> > cute name for Vienna sausages, or intended to pee in the sink (or was
> > making a joke about peeing in the sink).
> >
> I don't think you were reading aue when Charles made his
> astounding revelation. Those of us that were, might dine
> out with Charles, but not dine in.
>
> I once visited a couple that had several cats.
I should be eternally grateful for a 'Letter to Sis' that gave the fullest
possible description of this evening & the cats therein. Even this short
morsel had me weeping with laughter. Please, Tony.
Mason Barge
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Mason Barge wrote:
>>
>> Conclusion: If an American told me he was going to "go to the kitchen
>> and have a wee-wee" my initial reaction would be that he was going to
>> have something to eat. I really would not know if the person had a
>> cute name for Vienna sausages, or intended to pee in the sink (or was
>> making a joke about peeing in the sink).
>>
>I don't think you were reading aue when Charles made his
>astounding revelation. Those of us that were, might dine
>out with Charles, but not dine in.
If Charles pees in the kitchen sink, he is not alone. It is less
shocking to me than eating Vienna sausage, to tell you the truth.
>I once visited a couple that had several cats. The wife
>worked for a company that did some sort of research on
>in-breeding animals, and had brought home several cats that
>were not playing with a full bag of kitty litter. One
>climbed trees as all cats do, but tried to climb down head
>first. It kept tumbling down. One (or perhaps it was the
>tree climbing challenged one) would walk behind the sofa but
>couldn't get out. It couldn't figure out how to move
>backwards.
>
>When I went to use the toilet, I found a cat taking a dump
>in the sink. Before I could mind my manners, I blurted out
>that the cat was shitting in the sink. The host laughed,
>and said it did so frequently. Just after that, the wife -
>who was cooking spaghetti for dinner - tipped over the
>colander of draining pasta in the kitchen sink. She scooped
>it up and returned it to the colander.
>
Hahaha! Good one. My sister had a quirky golden retriever who would,
among other things, sit on the sofa with his forelegs on the ground
and his hindquarters on the furniture.
I hate to say this, but I would almost rather eat from a sink where a
cat shits than one where raw ground beef is put.
Laura F Spira
Wot he said. The dreaming spires have been echoing to the sound of our
laughter.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Tony Cooper
Well, I can't very well write it up now. You already know
the plot and the punchline.
I did forget to include that my host dismissed the cat's
usage of the bathroom sink because the cat used *only* that
particular sink. (This was a half-bath off the hall) But,
I was thinking "This is a *retarded* cat. I don't know what
a regular cat thinks a bathroom sink is, but I'm damn sure a
*retarded* cat doesn't know this sink from the kitchen
sink."
Tony Cooper
>
> On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 23:11:25 -0400, Tony Cooper
> <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Mason Barge wrote:
> >>
> >> Conclusion: If an American told me he was going to "go to the kitchen
> >> and have a wee-wee" my initial reaction would be that he was going to
> >> have something to eat. I really would not know if the person had a
> >> cute name for Vienna sausages, or intended to pee in the sink (or was
> >> making a joke about peeing in the sink).
> >>
> >I don't think you were reading aue when Charles made his
> >astounding revelation. Those of us that were, might dine
> >out with Charles, but not dine in.
>
> If Charles pees in the kitchen sink, he is not alone.
This gets better and better! You have it on some authority
that this peeing in the sink that Charles does is a group
activity? He invites other people over and they all stand
around the kitchen sink and pee together? Some sort of
men's club of the golden shower?
"A shower of...." is a common Irish saying. Like "a shower
of eejits" or "a shower of fuckwits." This revelation of
yours adds a new dimension to the usage.
Laura F Spira
Ah, but it's the way you tell 'em, our Tone.
>
> I did forget to include that my host dismissed the cat's
> usage of the bathroom sink because the cat used *only* that
> particular sink. (This was a half-bath off the hall) But,
> I was thinking "This is a *retarded* cat. I don't know what
> a regular cat thinks a bathroom sink is, but I'm damn sure a
> *retarded* cat doesn't know this sink from the kitchen
> sink."
>
>
Please remind me about the concept of the half-bath: it's been explained
to me before but I've forgotten how it went.
Dr Robin Bignall
Tony Cooper
>
> Please remind me about the concept of the half-bath: it's been explained
> to me before but I've forgotten how it went.
A bathroom in a house is considered to include toilet, sink,
and bathtub and/or shower. That's a full bath, and usually
adjacent to a bedroom. A half-bath is a toilet and sink
only, and usually adjacent to the living area. There are so
many variations in ages of houses and floorplans that
"usually" has to be used. A newer, fairly large house
usually has 2.5 baths: a master (full bath) off the master
bedroom, a full bath for communal use of the other bedrooms,
and a half bath adjacent to the living room.
Mine has the above arrangement with the two full baths
upstairs, and the half bath downstairs. The full baths have
bathtubs and separate shower stalls. Our previous house
(20+ years ago) had combination bathtubs and showers with
sliding glass doors to close when one wanted a shower.
I know there's sixty-eleven terms for everything mentioned
above, but I think the concept is clear.
Simon R. Hughes
> Tony Cooper wrote:
[...]
> > I did forget to include that my host dismissed the cat's
> > usage of the bathroom sink because the cat used *only* that
> > particular sink. (This was a half-bath off the hall) But,
> > I was thinking "This is a *retarded* cat. I don't know what
> > a regular cat thinks a bathroom sink is, but I'm damn sure a
> > *retarded* cat doesn't know this sink from the kitchen
> > sink."
> >
> >
>
> Please remind me about the concept of the half-bath: it's been explained
> to me before but I've forgotten how it went.
Don't be silly, you can't have a half bath except in Wonderland.
--
Simon R. Hughes
Simon R. Hughes
> A newer, fairly large house
> usually has 2.5 baths
That's a small house.
--
Simon R. Hughes
John Dean
Eric the Read
> "Compact
> disc" does exist as a trademark for a certain sort of cosmetics
> product by Estee Lauder in several countries.
Trademarks are also domain-specific; Estee Lauder having a trademark
on "Compact Disc" for the cosmetics industry does not invalidate
Philips' having (or not) a trademark on the term in the music and/or
computer industry. The classic example of this is Apple Records
and Apple Computers both having trademarked them in their respective
domains.
-=Eric
--
Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare.
-- Blair Houghton
Charles Riggs
Barge) wrote:
>On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 23:11:25 -0400, Tony Cooper
><tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Mason Barge wrote:
>>>
>>> Conclusion: If an American told me he was going to "go to the kitchen
>>> and have a wee-wee" my initial reaction would be that he was going to
>>> have something to eat. I really would not know if the person had a
>>> cute name for Vienna sausages, or intended to pee in the sink (or was
>>> making a joke about peeing in the sink).
>>>
>>I don't think you were reading aue when Charles made his
>>astounding revelation. Those of us that were, might dine
>>out with Charles, but not dine in.
>
>If Charles pees in the kitchen sink, he is not alone. It is less
>shocking to me than eating Vienna sausage, to tell you the truth.
I suppose I should come to my defense now that a person of some
substance has alluded to one of my idiosyncracies. As I explained
before you joined us, Mason, my bathroom is upstairs, and when I'm
busy doing this or that -- cooking, reading, listening to music, or
even just watching the tube, I don't want to bother with having to
make the trek upstairs when a sink is far handier. I drink a lot of
coffee during the day and feel its effects frequently and with short
warning. I live alone with my tropical fish so who is there to be
offended?
Now a Dutch lover, years ago, used to pee in our hotel room sink,
there being no bathroom provided, which didn't seem too odd to me at
the time, especially since she was, admittedly, well practiced in it;
I realized it required more agility that a man requires, so I had to
give her some credit. Of course, those were the good old days of the
sixties, when we experimented with many sorts of unconventional
behaviour.
--
Charles Riggs
Tony Cooper
>
> On Mon, 08 Apr 2002 14:43:53 GMT, masonbar...@aol.com (Mason
> Barge) wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 23:11:25 -0400, Tony Cooper
> ><tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Mason Barge wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Conclusion: If an American told me he was going to "go to the kitchen
> >>> and have a wee-wee" my initial reaction would be that he was going to
> >>> have something to eat. I really would not know if the person had a
> >>> cute name for Vienna sausages, or intended to pee in the sink (or was
> >>> making a joke about peeing in the sink).
> >>>
> >>I don't think you were reading aue when Charles made his
> >>astounding revelation. Those of us that were, might dine
> >>out with Charles, but not dine in.
> >
> >If Charles pees in the kitchen sink, he is not alone. It is less
> >shocking to me than eating Vienna sausage, to tell you the truth.
>
> I suppose I should come to my defense now that a person of some
> substance has alluded to one of my idiosyncracies.
I didn't realize that Mason was fat. Not that it makes a
difference, of course. Somehow, I expect a non-meat-eater
to be lean; even cadaverous.
Laura F Spira
>
> Laura F Spira wrote:
> >
> > Please remind me about the concept of the half-bath: it's been explained
> > to me before but I've forgotten how it went.
>
> A bathroom in a house is considered to include toilet, sink,
> and bathtub and/or shower. That's a full bath, and usually
> adjacent to a bedroom. A half-bath is a toilet and sink
> only, and usually adjacent to the living area.
[..]
Thank you. Now I remember what I found so puzzling - a half-bath has no
bath at all.
Our half-bath is the euphemistic downstairs cloakroom (no cloaks in
ours) or downstairs toilet (it does have one of those).
Tony Cooper
>
> Thank you. Now I remember what I found so puzzling - a half-bath has no
> bath at all.
> Our half-bath is the euphemistic downstairs cloakroom (no cloaks in
> ours) or downstairs toilet (it does have one of those).
Most American references to "bath" or "bathroom" have
nothing to do with immersing oneself in water. Some
full-baths have no bathtub...a shower stall only. In the
twenty plus years I've lived in this house, I think I've
been in our bathtub - maybe - twice. I take a bath at least
daily, but that involves standing in the separate shower
stall. My wife, however, takes either a bath or a shower
and uses the tub frequently.
Richard Fontana
> Most American references to "bath" or "bathroom" have
> nothing to do with immersing oneself in water. Some
> full-baths have no bathtub...a shower stall only. In the
> twenty plus years I've lived in this house, I think I've
> been in our bathtub - maybe - twice. I take a bath at least
> daily, but that involves standing in the separate shower
> stall. My wife, however, takes either a bath or a shower
> and uses the tub frequently.
Whoa. Coop, are you saying that taking a shower is a subcategory of
taking a bath? It's a subcategory of *bathing*, sure, I accept
that. But a shower and a bath are two different things.
Laura F Spira
that I wanted *quite* so much detail. However, we may have stumbled back
into a usage question. You take a bath standing up in the shower? I
would call that taking a shower.
Mike Barnes
>Most American references to "bath" or "bathroom" have
>nothing to do with immersing oneself in water. Some
>full-baths have no bathtub...a shower stall only. In the
>twenty plus years I've lived in this house, I think I've
>been in our bathtub - maybe - twice.
When you say you've *been* in your bathtub...
<shudders>
I'd say twice was more than enough.
--
Mike Barnes
Skitt
"Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Charles Riggs wrote:
> > masonbar...@aol.com (Mason Barge) wrote:
> > >If Charles pees in the kitchen sink, he is not alone. It is less
> > >shocking to me than eating Vienna sausage, to tell you the truth.
> >
> > I suppose I should come to my defense now that a person of some
> > substance has alluded to one of my idiosyncracies.
>
> I didn't realize that Mason was fat. Not that it makes a
> difference, of course. Somehow, I expect a non-meat-eater
> to be lean; even cadaverous.
Cadaverous, for sure. While I was still working at the Cape in Florida, a
friend and co-worker decided to become a vegan. He lost a tremendous amount
of weight, and started to look quite frail and sickly. We were becoming
quite concerned about his well-being. His height of well over six feet did
not help his appearance. There is a small picture up him and his wife at
http://www.geocities.com/fricker3/
His weight finally stabilized, but he is not the man he used to be.
Hurricanes and even just strong winds are far more dangerous to him
nowadays.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)
Evan Kirshenbaum
I'll agree with Richard here. "Taking a bath", in the sense of
washing, at least, for me requires getting in a tub.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |A specification which calls for
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |network-wide use of encryption, but
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |invokes the Tooth Fairy to handle
|key distribution, is a useless
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |farce.
(650)857-7572 | Henry Spencer
Woody Wordpecker
<la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> said:
[ . . . ]
>Much as I am fascinated by the detail of life chez Cooper, I'm not sure
>that I wanted *quite* so much detail. However, we may have stumbled back
>into a usage question. You take a bath standing up in the shower? I
>would call that taking a shower.
A related interesting point of English usage has to do with the meaning of
"lying shower". This can refer either to taking a bath (a shower
consisting of lying in a pool of water in the bathtub), or to saying you
took a shower when you really didn't.
Simon R. Hughes
> Richard Fontana <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> writes:
>
> > On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >
> > > Most American references to "bath" or "bathroom" have nothing to
> > > do with immersing oneself in water. Some full-baths have no
> > > bathtub...a shower stall only. In the twenty plus years I've
> > > lived in this house, I think I've been in our bathtub - maybe -
> > > twice. I take a bath at least daily, but that involves standing
> > > in the separate shower stall. My wife, however, takes either a
> > > bath or a shower and uses the tub frequently.
> >
> > Whoa. Coop, are you saying that taking a shower is a subcategory of
> > taking a bath? It's a subcategory of *bathing*, sure, I accept
> > that. But a shower and a bath are two different things.
>
> I'll agree with Richard here. "Taking a bath", in the sense of
> washing, at least, for me requires getting in a tub.
You forgot to include the URL, Evan.
--
Simon R. Hughes
Tony Cooper
I grew up in houses that had only bathtubs. Great, white
porcelain monstrosities that sat up on legs and were not
attached to, or even adjacent to, the wall. For hair
washing, we had a rubber hose with a shower-type head and an
end that fitted over the spigot. Consequently, I grew up
using the word "bath" to mean "bathe". Now that I take
showers instead of baths, I still think of the function as
taking a bath. Not that I don't say "I'll be ready as soon
as I shower.", or words to that effect. I just kind of
interchange the two terms. I understand there are two
different words with two different meanings, but I don't
attach much importance to the usage.
The best thing about a shower is that it need not be cleaned
after use each time. Part of the bathing ritual with tubs
was scrubbing out the ring and the soap scum. Rubber ducks
are no fun in showers, though, and farting in the shower
doesn't produce a great bubble to watch.
It was, by the way, a great source of embarrassment to me in
high school not to live in a home with a shower. Showers
were "in" during the 50s, and bathtubs were considered old
fashioned [1]. Friends would come over and come out of the
bathroom (we had only one) wide-eyed and say "You don't have
a shower!". I begged my father to put in one of those tubs
with a sliding glass door and a shower head on the wall, but
we always lived in rented houses and my father wouldn't put
the money into someone else's house.
[1] It's probably been covered, but is something
"old-fashioned" or "old fashion"?
Tony Cooper
>
> I'll agree with Richard here. "Taking a bath", in the sense of
> washing, at least, for me requires getting in a tub.
>
I'm older than you are, and associations are different. I
agree with Richard, but "subset" makes my eyebrow twitch.
Tony Cooper
I really don't understand the aversion to "been". I've been
to the beach, been to store, been in jail (briefly, and for
a traffic charge), and been many places. What connotation
do you put on "been"?
Tony Cooper
>
> Much as I am fascinated by the detail of life chez Cooper, I'm not sure
> that I wanted *quite* so much detail. However, we may have stumbled back
> into a usage question. You take a bath standing up in the shower? I
> would call that taking a shower.
There are two ways new subjects and threads come into
being: someone asks if a particular usage is acceptable, or
someone inadvertently uses a word or phrase that sets
everyone off. Think of my posting as fresh meat.
By the way, to add to your uneasiness, I noticed some time
ago that I have a very definite pattern of washing in the
shower. I *always* wash the the left arm first, then the
right arm, then the chest and stomach.... That's enough
detail, but I wonder if there are random washers or are we
all pattern washers?
Tonight, I will make note of my toothbrushing style in case
we run short of topics.
Polar
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>By the way, to add to your uneasiness, I noticed some time
>ago that I have a very definite pattern of washing in the
>shower. I *always* wash the the left arm first, then the
>right arm, then the chest and stomach.... That's enough
>detail, but I wonder if there are random washers or are we
>all pattern washers
[..]
I suspect it's tied to handedness. I am right-handed, so always
do the right arm first. Then...well..
--
Polar
Polar
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[...]
>Tonight, I will make note of my toothbrushing style in case
>we run short of topics.
[...]
I didn't believe this until I bought one. Full-blown decadence.
Had to replace my electric toothbrush. Was told that they now
have a 2-minute warning, to make sure you brush your teeth long
enough. Sure 'nuff, at 2 minutes, the damn thing starts to
stutter.
--
Polar
Charles Riggs
<shu...@tromso.online.no> wrote:
>Thus Spake Evan Kirshenbaum:
>> I'll agree with Richard here. "Taking a bath", in the sense of
>> washing, at least, for me requires getting in a tub.
>
>You forgot to include the URL, Evan.
Now, was that kind, Simon?
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
<kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>I'll agree with Richard here. "Taking a bath", in the sense of
>washing, at least, for me requires getting in a tub.
Speaking colloquially, "getting in a tub" is acceptable. The formal
word is bath; tub being the barbarism for bathtub.
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>In alt.usage.english, Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>Most American references to "bath" or "bathroom" have
>>nothing to do with immersing oneself in water. Some
>>full-baths have no bathtub...a shower stall only.
While I agree that Americans will sometimes refer to a room as a
bathroom even if it contains no washing facilities whatever, if a
hotel clerk told me my room had a full bath, I'd demand a refund if
there weren't a proper bathtub in the bathroom included with the
sleeping room. I room with a bathroom in an American hotel, as most
hotel rooms there have, always contains a shower at a minimum, a hotel
room with a full-bath contains, in my experience, a bathtub, and if
you're in a bar or some dump along the highway, a men's bathroom might
well contain nothing but a receptacle to piss in; a women's bathroom
will contain a toilet, at minimum.
How, by the way, did Wee-wee become associated with Joni Mitchell? Had
the association been made with Sarah Miles, I could understand.
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>
>"Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Charles Riggs wrote:
>> > masonbar...@aol.com (Mason Barge) wrote:
>
>> > >If Charles pees in the kitchen sink, he is not alone. It is less
>> > >shocking to me than eating Vienna sausage, to tell you the truth.
>> >
>> > I suppose I should come to my defense now that a person of some
>> > substance has alluded to one of my idiosyncracies.
>>
>> I didn't realize that Mason was fat. Not that it makes a
>> difference, of course. Somehow, I expect a non-meat-eater
>> to be lean; even cadaverous.
>
>Cadaverous, for sure. While I was still working at the Cape in Florida, a
>friend and co-worker decided to become a vegan. He lost a tremendous amount
>of weight, and started to look quite frail and sickly. We were becoming
>quite concerned about his well-being. His height of well over six feet did
>not help his appearance. There is a small picture up him and his wife at
>http://www.geocities.com/fricker3/
>
>His weight finally stabilized, but he is not the man he used to be.
>Hurricanes and even just strong winds are far more dangerous to him
>nowadays.
I believe you insofar as this incident is concerned, but I'm forced to
put my Alex Cherv... hat on and claim that the old wife's tale that a
person must eat some meat to be healthy is little but an urban legend.
I can't produce any URLs but I know many healthy vegetarians and know
that, for myself, I feel better and healthier when not loaded down
with pieces of dead animals in my stomach or gut.
--
Charles Riggs
Mike Barnes
>Mike Barnes wrote:
>>
>> In alt.usage.english, Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> >Most American references to "bath" or "bathroom" have
>> >nothing to do with immersing oneself in water. Some
>> >full-baths have no bathtub...a shower stall only. In the
>> >twenty plus years I've lived in this house, I think I've
>> >been in our bathtub - maybe - twice.
>>
>> When you say you've *been* in your bathtub...
>>
>> <shudders>
>>
>> I'd say twice was more than enough.
>
>I really don't understand the aversion to "been". I've been
>to the beach, been to store, been in jail (briefly, and for
>a traffic charge), and been many places. What connotation
>do you put on "been"?
If you didn't get it, the effect is lost for ever, and no explanation
from me can put that right. But imagine your mother outside the loo,
"Tony? Have you *been* yet?".
Or perhaps "Anthony". Are you an "Anthony"? I speak as someone whose
parents, during my childhood years, had a distinct preference for using
the name they actually chose for me ("Michael").
--
Mike Barnes
Dr Robin Bignall
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think that you and Charles should post photographs on suitable
websites so that we can see what's going on. A picture is worth a
thousand words.
--
wrmst rgrds
RB...(docrobi...@ntlworld.com)
Tony Cooper
>
> In alt.usage.english, Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >Mike Barnes wrote:
> >>
> >> In alt.usage.english, Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> >Most American references to "bath" or "bathroom" have
> >> >nothing to do with immersing oneself in water. Some
> >> >full-baths have no bathtub...a shower stall only. In the
> >> >twenty plus years I've lived in this house, I think I've
> >> >been in our bathtub - maybe - twice.
> >>
> >> When you say you've *been* in your bathtub...
> >>
> >> <shudders>
> >>
> >> I'd say twice was more than enough.
> >
> >I really don't understand the aversion to "been". I've been
> >to the beach, been to store, been in jail (briefly, and for
> >a traffic charge), and been many places. What connotation
> >do you put on "been"?
>
> If you didn't get it, the effect is lost for ever, and no explanation
> from me can put that right. But imagine your mother outside the loo,
> "Tony? Have you *been* yet?".
I'm not at all accustomed to that terminology. I can
vaguely see how it could be used, but it doesn't register.
Of course, we never used "make" in our household either. I
see that more frequently, and it never ceases to be less
than a weird term. My mother would have been less specific
and asked "Are you through in there yet?".
>
> Or perhaps "Anthony". Are you an "Anthony"? I speak as someone whose
> parents, during my childhood years, had a distinct preference for using
> the name they actually chose for me ("Michael").
I was always "Anthony" to my parents. My mother, in the
later years, would introduce me to people saying "This is my
son Anthony. He calls himself Tony." She would say that in
the same manner one might say "This is my son Anthony. He
thinks he is Napoleon and walks around with his hand in his
shirt. Please don't stare."
Tony Cooper
>
> On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:13:53 +0100, Mike Barnes <mi...@senrab.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In alt.usage.english, Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >>Most American references to "bath" or "bathroom" have
> >>nothing to do with immersing oneself in water. Some
> >>full-baths have no bathtub...a shower stall only.
>
> While I agree that Americans will sometimes refer to a room as a
> bathroom even if it contains no washing facilities whatever, if a
> hotel clerk told me my room had a full bath, I'd demand a refund if
> there weren't a proper bathtub in the bathroom included with the
> sleeping room. I room with a bathroom in an American hotel, as most
> hotel rooms there have, always contains a shower at a minimum, a hotel
> room with a full-bath contains, in my experience, a bathtub, and if
> you're in a bar or some dump along the highway, a men's bathroom might
> well contain nothing but a receptacle to piss in; a women's bathroom
> will contain a toilet, at minimum.
>
some sort of washing facility. I don't recall ever seeing a
men's room with just a receptacle to piss in and without a
sink. I have been in facilities in Kenya that had a
concrete poured floor and nothing other than a slit in the
floor to an open pit. No sink, no hose, no tap. Unisex,
too.
Richard Fontana
> In the US, I can't recall ever seeing a bathroom without
> some sort of washing facility.
I can remember being in at least one US hotel room that was like this.
There was a sink just *outside* of the bathroom.
Evan Kirshenbaum
I disagree. First of all, a bathtub is a tub for bathing. The word
"tub" is several centuries older than "bathtub" (14C vs. 1836). There
are also washtubs, tubs of butter, hot tubs, etc. It is true, though,
that, as it is the most common example, an unmarked "tub" typically
refers to a bathtub. A couple of centuries ago it would probably have
been more likely to be a washtub.
Second, I differentiate between a "tub", meaning the fixture, and a
"bath", meaning (in the sense of "getting in") a tub filled with
water. While it's true that both a required for "taking a bath",
neither is incorrect, they merely emphasize different aspects.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Well, if you can't believe what you
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |read in a comic book, what can you
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |believe?!
| Bullwinkle J. Moose
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Evan Kirshenbaum
> If you didn't get it, the effect is lost for ever, and no explanation
> from me can put that right. But imagine your mother outside the loo,
> "Tony? Have you *been* yet?".
Must be pondian. In the US, it would be "gone". At least in my
experience. I, too, had no idea what you were getting at.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Of course, over the first 10^-10
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |seconds and 10^-30 cubic
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |centimeters it averages out to
|zero, but when you look in
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |detail....
(650)857-7572 | Philip Morrison
Polar
I hsve long thought that there should be sinks OUTSIDE the
facilitiess in restaurants, so one would have a prayer of
ascertaining whether the servers had washed their hands.
This is not always the case, despite the warning signs.
(Bon appetit)
--
Polar
Padraig Breathnach
>Mike Barnes <mi...@senrab.com> writes:
>
>> If you didn't get it, the effect is lost for ever, and no explanation
>> from me can put that right. But imagine your mother outside the loo,
>> "Tony? Have you *been* yet?".
>
>Must be pondian. In the US, it would be "gone". At least in my
>experience. I, too, had no idea what you were getting at.
Now I understand what people mean when they say "I have been and
gone".
PB
Padraig Breathnach
>In the US, I can't recall ever seeing a bathroom without
>some sort of washing facility. I don't recall ever seeing a
>men's room with just a receptacle to piss in and without a
>sink. I have been in facilities in Kenya that had a
>concrete poured floor and nothing other than a slit in the
>floor to an open pit. No sink, no hose, no tap. Unisex,
>too.
>
For some people the sink alone suffices.
PB
Tony Cooper
Through Charles, we have a better understanding of
Shakespeare. In "Julius Caesar", Act i, Scene 2, when
Caesar says "Help me, Cassius, or I sink!", Caesar was
asking for assistance in getting to the bathroom.
Frances Kemmish
> Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> writes:
>
>
>>On 09 Apr 2002 11:07:28 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
>><kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I'll agree with Richard here. "Taking a bath", in the sense of
>>>washing, at least, for me requires getting in a tub.
>>>
>>Speaking colloquially, "getting in a tub" is acceptable. The formal
>>word is bath; tub being the barbarism for bathtub.
>>
>
> I disagree. First of all, a bathtub is a tub for bathing. The word
> "tub" is several centuries older than "bathtub" (14C vs. 1836). There
> are also washtubs, tubs of butter, hot tubs, etc. It is true, though,
> that, as it is the most common example, an unmarked "tub" typically
> refers to a bathtub. A couple of centuries ago it would probably have
> been more likely to be a washtub.
>
In England I would not have referred to a bath as a "tub": it was just
the bath. "Bathtub" seems an Americanism to me. A "tub" still suggests
some kind of barrel to me, even though I hear "tub" used by my own
children to refer to the bath.
> Second, I differentiate between a "tub", meaning the fixture, and a
> "bath", meaning (in the sense of "getting in") a tub filled with
> water. While it's true that both a required for "taking a bath",
> neither is incorrect, they merely emphasize different aspects.
>
>
But, like Laura, I would not say "taking a bath" for taking a shower.
Fran
Robert Bannister
Do you also put your left sock / left shoe on before the right sock and right
shoe?
I have seen it alleged that most people do this and I think I do, but how
general is it?
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
But have you 'been' on the beach or in the store?
--
Rob Bannister
John Dean
"Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3CB4C2BE...@yahoo.com...
And Twelfth Night I iii -
I would not so much as make water but in a sink-a-pace
Mason Barge
wrote:
Americans say "I have come and gone" which is even more unfortunate,
in light of this discussion.
--
Mason Barge
"People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like."
-- Abraham Lincoln
Mason Barge
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Charles Riggs wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 08 Apr 2002 14:43:53 GMT, masonbar...@aol.com (Mason
>> Barge) wrote:
>>
>> >On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 23:11:25 -0400, Tony Cooper
>> ><tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Mason Barge wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Conclusion: If an American told me he was going to "go to the kitchen
>> >>> and have a wee-wee" my initial reaction would be that he was going to
>> >>> have something to eat. I really would not know if the person had a
>> >>> cute name for Vienna sausages, or intended to pee in the sink (or was
>> >>> making a joke about peeing in the sink).
>> >>>
>> >>I don't think you were reading aue when Charles made his
>> >>astounding revelation. Those of us that were, might dine
>> >>out with Charles, but not dine in.
>> >
>> >If Charles pees in the kitchen sink, he is not alone. It is less
>> >shocking to me than eating Vienna sausage, to tell you the truth.
>>
>> I suppose I should come to my defense now that a person of some
>> substance has alluded to one of my idiosyncracies.
>
>I didn't realize that Mason was fat. Not that it makes a
>difference, of course. Somehow, I expect a non-meat-eater
>to be lean; even cadaverous.
So you consider Vienna sausages to be "meat"? I demand an
explanation.
To save you some research, they are technically a petroleum
by-product.
John Varela
wrote:
> It's probably been covered, but is something
> "old-fashioned" or "old fashion"?
An old fashioned is whiskey, bitters, sugar, and a dash of soda, garnished
with a maraschino cherry and, if you have one, a slice of orange. An
example of an old fashion would be a polyester leisure suit.
--
John Varela