Crap vs. shit
pimpom
by the movie character is "shit". Is the former considered less
offensive than the latter?
tony cooper
wrote:
>I often see "crap" used in movie subtitles when the word spoken
>by the movie character is "shit". Is the former considered less
>offensive than the latter?
>
It seems to be accepted as less offensive, but I think it's just as
offensive as "shit".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Hatunen
<pim...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
A bit less so.
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Glenn Knickerbocker
>A bit less so.
In many circles, far less so. "Crap" is a word my parents would use in
front of their grandchildren.
�R // Failing is not just for failures, it's \\ users.bestweb.net/~notr
for everyone. Failures just have more experience. \\ iamlistener.com
mm
wrote:
>I often see "crap" used in movie subtitles when the word spoken
>by the movie character is "shit". Is the former considered less
>offensive than the latter?
>
Yes. It's good that you ask because if you don't learn how to avoid
vulgar words, you'll be thought to be vulgar. Even "crap" is
marginal.
--
Posters should say where they live, and for which area
they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in
Western Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis 7 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore 26 years
Farmer Giles
"mm" <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:qs51o55koqibcrnhg...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:16:06 +0530, "pimpom" <pim...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>I often see "crap" used in movie subtitles when the word spoken
>>by the movie character is "shit". Is the former considered less
>>offensive than the latter?
>>
> Yes. It's good that you ask because if you don't learn how to avoid
> vulgar words, you'll be thought to be vulgar. Even "crap" is
> marginal.
It is an appalling word. Sadly, here in England some youngsters use it all
the time (as well as its alternative!). Used as both a noun and an
adjective, it clearly marks those who use it as being both vulgar and unable
to express themselves properly.
aquachimp
> "mm" <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
And those who couldn't give a toss will sometimes say "I couldn't give
a shit", but I've yet to hear "I couldn't give a crap"
pimpom
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I'm a non-native user, but I do
know that neither word is one that one would use in refined
company.
Pablo
>
> "mm" <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:qs51o55koqibcrnhg...@4ax.com...
>> Yes. It's good that you ask because if you don't learn how to avoid
>> vulgar words, you'll be thought to be vulgar. Even "crap" is
>> marginal.
>
> It is an appalling word. Sadly, here in England some youngsters use it all
> the time (as well as its alternative!). Used as both a noun and an
> adjective, it clearly marks those who use it as being both vulgar and
> unable to express themselves properly.
I say poo. What does that say about me?
--
Pablo
Pablo
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:34:33 -0700, Hatunen wrote:
>>A bit less so.
>
> In many circles, far less so. "Crap" is a word my parents would use in
> front of their grandchildren.
But in America, it's a game, isn't it?
--
Pablo
Farmer Giles
"Pablo" <no...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:7uciu5...@mid.individual.net...
I find that term perfectly acceptable - even amusing - used in the right
situation.
When I get very annoyed with something (which only happens occasionally!), I
often describe it as "An absolute pile of poo!".
HVS
I think that's only in the plural, though -- "craps".
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
Eric Walker
The FCC, America's nanny for TV (that is, "censor") considers "shit" one
of the Seven Deadly Words, but "crap" passes, albeit (I think) based on
the broadcast hour. I well remember the first time I heard the word used
(either Paul Simon or Art Garfunkel in an interview).
See: http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1197832&displaytype=printable
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker, Owlcroft House
http://owlcroft.com/english/
John Dean
"couldn't give a crap" gets 58,000 hits on Yahoo
"could give a crap" gets 94,000
"couldn't give a shit" 201,000
"could give a shit" gets 198,000
"couldn't give a toss" 160,000
"could give a toss" 9,600
--
John Dean
Oxford
QT
That you are under 10 years of age.
--
qt
Pablo
> Pablo wrote:
>> I say poo. What does that say about me?
>
> That you are under 10 years of age.
>
You're not a parent, are you? I doubt it.
--
Pablo
Bill McCray
It's the fake stuff that I'm concerned about. You know: sham poo.
Bill in Kentucky
--
Swap the two pieces of my username and the two pieces of the ISP name to
get my e-mail address.
Glenn Knickerbocker
>On 21 Feb 2010, Pablo wrote
>I think that's only in the plural, though -- "craps".
And it's an unrelated word, derived from "crab."
�R There's really no such thing as a Loser's Club. --Spot
http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/emopvere.html Sorry! 1019
mm
wrote:
>Farmer Giles wrote:
>> "mm" <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>> news:qs51o55koqibcrnhg...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:16:06 +0530, "pimpom"
>>> <pim...@invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I often see "crap" used in movie subtitles when the word
>>>> spoken
>>>> by the movie character is "shit". Is the former considered
>>>> less
>>>> offensive than the latter?
>>>>
>>> Yes. It's good that you ask because if you don't learn how to
>>> avoid
>>> vulgar words, you'll be thought to be vulgar. Even "crap" is
>>> marginal.
>>
>> It is an appalling word. Sadly, here in England some youngsters
Maybe it doesn't seem so bad in the US because the game of craps is
well known. Do they have that in England? Is the name itself
vulgar.
There is also crapping out, which means iirc to roll a 7 or 11 when
that is not the number you are trying to repeat. Although I almost
never hear that anymore, there are probably parts of town where craps
are played regularly.
> use
>> it all the time (as well as its alternative!). Used as both a
>> noun
>> and an adjective, it clearly marks those who use it as being
>> both
>> vulgar and unable to express themselves properly.
>
>Thanks for the replies, everyone. I'm a non-native user, but I do
>know that neither word is one that one would use in refined
>company.
Not just refined company but anyone except coarse company.
tony cooper
wrote:
>There is also crapping out, which means iirc to roll a 7 or 11 when
>that is not the number you are trying to repeat. Although I almost
>never hear that anymore, there are probably parts of town where craps
>are played regularly.
No way will I bankroll your trip to Vegas. If your point is, say,
eight, rolling an 11 does not end your roll. Only making your point
or throwing seven ends that roll. (You keep the dice if you make your
point and pass the dice to the next shooter if you lose.) A seven or
eleven on the first roll, before your point is established, wins.
Rolling two, three, or twelve on your first roll, before your point is
established, loses.
Farmer Giles
> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:37:49 +0530, "pimpom" <pim...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>Farmer Giles wrote:
>>> "mm" <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>>> news:qs51o55koqibcrnhg...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:16:06 +0530, "pimpom"
>>>> <pim...@invalid.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I often see "crap" used in movie subtitles when the word
>>>>> spoken
>>>>> by the movie character is "shit". Is the former considered
>>>>> less
>>>>> offensive than the latter?
>>>>>
>>>> Yes. It's good that you ask because if you don't learn how to
>>>> avoid
>>>> vulgar words, you'll be thought to be vulgar. Even "crap" is
>>>> marginal.
>>>
>>> It is an appalling word. Sadly, here in England some youngsters
>
> Maybe it doesn't seem so bad in the US because the game of craps is
> well known. Do they have that in England?
Not generally, although I'm sure it is played in places.
Is the name itself
> vulgar.
>
> There is also crapping out, which means iirc to roll a 7 or 11 when
> that is not the number you are trying to repeat. Although I almost
> never hear that anymore, there are probably parts of town where craps
> are played regularly.
The terms wouldn't necessarily be seen as vulgar in England, when used as
they are legitimately intended, but no doubt some people would feel
uncomfortable by their use.
Hatunen
<Gi...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>"mm" <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>news:ib93o51rf26nnrcrv...@4ax.com...
>>
>> Maybe it doesn't seem so bad in the US because the game of craps is
>> well known. Do they have that in England?
>
>Not generally, although I'm sure it is played in places.
Do not forget the musical number from "Guys and Dolls", "The
Oldest Established Permanent Floating Crap Game in New York".
Farmer Giles
"Hatunen" <hat...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2ed3o5lce8s46e61c...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:53:12 -0000, "Farmer Giles"
> <Gi...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"mm" <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>>news:ib93o51rf26nnrcrv...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> Maybe it doesn't seem so bad in the US because the game of craps is
>>> well known. Do they have that in England?
>>
>>Not generally, although I'm sure it is played in places.
>
> Do not forget the musical number from "Guys and Dolls", "The
> Oldest Established Permanent Floating Crap Game in New York".
>
Hatunen
<Gi...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>"Hatunen" <hat...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:2ed3o5lce8s46e61c...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:53:12 -0000, "Farmer Giles"
>> <Gi...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"mm" <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>>>news:ib93o51rf26nnrcrv...@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it doesn't seem so bad in the US because the game of craps is
>>>> well known. Do they have that in England?
>>>
>>>Not generally, although I'm sure it is played in places.
>>
>> Do not forget the musical number from "Guys and Dolls", "The
>> Oldest Established Permanent Floating Crap Game in New York".
>>
>And?
It's not a craps game.
Robert Lieblich
>
> On 21 Feb 2010, Pablo wrote
>
> > Glenn Knickerbocker wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:34:33 -0700, Hatunen wrote:
> >>> A bit less so.
> >>
> >> In many circles, far less so. "Crap" is a word my parents
> >> would use in front of their grandchildren.
> >
> > But in America, it's a game, isn't it?
>
> I think that's only in the plural, though -- "craps".
There's a fairly simple trick-taking care game that goes by "Oh Hell"
and several other names, one of which is "Oh shit!" I played it
occasinally in my youth. As I recall, the most enjoyable part of the
proceedings was repeating the name of the game.
See <http://www.pagat.com/exact/ohhell.html>.
--
Bob Lieblich
Opinicus
wrote:
> It is an appalling word. Sadly, here in England some youngsters use it all
> the time (as well as its alternative!). Used as both a noun and an
> adjective, it clearly marks those who use it as being both vulgar and unable
> to express themselves properly.
That prompted something I remembered in the "Heart of Oak" episode of
the "Empire of the Seas" documentary recently broadcast by the BBC:
<quote>
On 26 May 1660, one of the Navy's grandest ships, *The Royal Charles,*
came within sight of England. On board was a man making his triumphant
return home after years in exile. It was Charles, son of the murdered
king soon to be crowned King Charles II. The journey was the result of
weeks of plotting between senior naval officers and exiled Royalists
to bring back the monarchy. The new king was eager to lay claim to
England's potent navy. He gave gold to the sailors and rebranded the
fleet. It was now the Royal Navy.
Disembarking with the royal party was the younger cousin and
newly-appointed secretary to the ship's commander. The young man was
honoured to be given the job of taking the King's spaniel off the
ship. He wrote in his diary "It shit the boat, which made us laugh and
me think that the King and all that belonged to him are but just as
others are."
As they came ashore the young man saw huge crowds of nobles and
citizens alike who had all turned out to welcome their king. "The
shouting and joy expressed by all" he wrote "was past imagination."
The twenty-seven-year-old from London had just completed his second
sea voyage. He didn't know it then but this was just the start of an
extraordinary naval career. His name was Samuel Pepys.
</quote>
"Unable to express themselves properly" indeed...
--
Bob
http://www.kanyak.com
Farmer Giles
"Opinicus" <gez...@spamcop.net.which.is.not.invalid> wrote in message
news:rs54o5p9smod1ehb8...@4ax.com...
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ok then, make that *most* who use it!
Do you really think that the semi-literate cretins whose range of expression
is so limited that 'crap' and 'shit' are just about the only qualifying
adjectives they can muster to express disapproval or dissatisfaction are to
be compared with Samuel Pepys?
Leslie Danks
[...]
> Do not forget the musical number from "Guys and Dolls", "The
> Oldest Established Permanent Floating Crap Game in New York".
Is the toilet blocked?
--
Les (BrE)
eBob.com
English. That seems very unusual to me. Would you care to explain?
Thanks, Bob
"pimpom" <pim...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:hlpe5u$8sn$1...@news.albasani.net...
Hatunen
Well, if you know the show you know that the big game is played
down in a sewer...
Patok
> It sounds like you are watching a movie in English which has subtitles in
> English. That seems very unusual to me. Would you care to explain?
This is common, especially if you can't (for whatever reason) make
the sound loud enough. Another reason is if one is a non-native speaker
and is learning English - it helps much more that way, instead of having
subtitles in a different language.
--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
pimpom
I don't know how common or uncommon it is in places where English
is natively spoken, but it's quite common where I live. In some
movies (though not in the majority of those I've watched), they
even subtitle non-speech sounds such as a crashing sound, a
laugh, animal sounds, explosions, etc. This leads me to believe
that at least some subtitles are targeted at hearing-impaired
viewers and not just non-native speakers.
pimpom
> eBob.com wrote:
>> It sounds like you are watching a movie in English which has
>> subtitles in English. That seems very unusual to me. Would
>> you
>> care to explain?
>
> This is common, especially if you can't (for whatever
> reason) make
> the sound loud enough. Another reason is if one is a non-native
> speaker and is learning English - it helps much more that way,
> instead of having subtitles in a different language.
Yes, it's very helpful to a non-native speaker. I think I manage
to understand most American and British colloquialism unless it's
very regional and as long as it's clearly enunciated. Some of the
time at least, I can distinguish between East coast and West
coast, Brooklyn, Texas drawl, fake Texan, Cockney, Irish,
Scottish, etc., though I've never been to any of those places.
And I suspect that those accents may not always be as clearly
delineated as they are presented in the movies.
All the same, I sometimes have a hard time catching exactly what
is being said without the aid of subtitles.
Robert Lieblich
>
> It sounds like you are watching a movie in English which has subtitles in
> English. That seems very unusual to me. Would you care to explain?
>
> Thanks, Bob
You're welcome.
--
Bob
Robin Bignall
<fake...@totallybogus.com> wrote:
>"pimpom" <pim...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>news:hlpe5u$8sn$1...@news.albasani.net...
>>I often see "crap" used in movie subtitles when the word spoken by the
>>movie character is "shit". Is the former considered less offensive than the
>>latter?
>>
>English. That seems very unusual to me. Would you care to explain?
>
Sometimes it's hard to catch some words in southern accents, and often
the background music is louder than the speech.
--
Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England
Bill McCray
Of course the closed captioning is for the hearing impaired, although it
can help others.
Bill in Kentucky
Glenn Knickerbocker
>the background music is louder than the speech.
We had this problem with our new old TV until I realized its default
audio setting was "expanded stereo." I have to remember to turn that
off every time it's been unplugged or the power's been out.
�R http://users.bestweb.net/~notr You are already too educated stupid to
understand the truth of nature's harmonic simultaneous 4-liter wine cube
Robin Bignall
<No...@bestweb.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:11:24 +0000, Robin Bignall wrote:
>>the background music is louder than the speech.
>
>We had this problem with our new old TV until I realized its default
>audio setting was "expanded stereo." I have to remember to turn that
>off every time it's been unplugged or the power's been out.
>
Dunno about that, Glenn. We don't use the TV's built-in speakers. We
run a simple stereo output into the hi-fi system.
Hatunen
I believe some sets output whatever the TV's settings are.
Robin Bignall
>On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:54:54 +0000, Robin Bignall
><docr...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:40:22 -0500, Glenn Knickerbocker
>><No...@bestweb.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:11:24 +0000, Robin Bignall wrote:
>>>>the background music is louder than the speech.
>>>
>>>We had this problem with our new old TV until I realized its default
>>>audio setting was "expanded stereo." I have to remember to turn that
>>>off every time it's been unplugged or the power's been out.
>>>
>>Dunno about that, Glenn. We don't use the TV's built-in speakers. We
>>run a simple stereo output into the hi-fi system.
>
>I believe some sets output whatever the TV's settings are.
I'll have to take another look at the manual, but I do recall that the
TV has quite a few outputs, including multi-channel surround sound and
optical. I chose the simple red / black phono plugs into similar
sockets on the amp. I suspect the problem is one of ageing -- me, not
the TV or amp.
Princess Tiaamii
> On 21 Feb 2010, Pablo wrote
>
> > Glenn Knickerbocker wrote:
>
> >> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:34:33 -0700, Hatunen wrote:
> >>> A bit less so.
>
> >> In many circles, far less so. "Crap" is a word my parents
> >> would use in front of their grandchildren.
>
> > But in America, it's a game, isn't it?
>
> I think that's only in the plural, though -- "craps".
>
> Cheers, Harvey
> CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
sounds messy...
David Kaye
hay and whatnot left after a horse has trampled it, or similar kinds of
residue.
It comes from the Latin, "crappa", which generally means "residue", which is
the same root as "grappa", which is a brandy made with grape residue after the
grapes have been squeezed and the wine has been made from it.
Princess Tiaamii
having tasted Grappa.....I can only agree
Kevin
In Hong Kong, we watch Chinese TV with subtitles in Chinese.
I don't know why, perhaps it aims at those with hearing-impaired
audience.
The other reason is, the subtitles are always written in standard
Chinese language instead of the dialects spoken by the artists.
Kevin
Kevin
> "mm" <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>
> news:qs51o55koqibcrnhg...@4ax.com...
>
> > On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:16:06 +0530, "pimpom" <pim...@invalid.invalid>
> > wrote:
>
> >>by the movie character is "shit". Is the former considered less
> >>offensive than the latter?
>
> > vulgar words, you'll be thought to be vulgar. Even "crap" is
> > marginal.
>
> the time (as well as its alternative!). Used as both a noun and an
> adjective, it clearly marks those who use it as being both vulgar and unable
> to express themselves properly.
Without reading this thread I did think "shit" is just a slight
emphasis.
I remember that some ten years ago, a colleague who came from
Princeton in the US, and he used this word frequently. I thought it
was trendy to say so. My goodness.
Kevin
Damaeus
tony cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> posted:
> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:16:06 +0530, "pimpom" <pim...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >I often see "crap" used in movie subtitles when the word spoken
> >by the movie character is "shit". Is the former considered less
> >offensive than the latter?
> >
> It seems to be accepted as less offensive, but I think it's just as
> offensive as "shit".
My junior-high English teacher used "crap" in class, and claimed it wasn't
a dirty word. The woman who adopted me to have a son to raise wouldn't
even let me say "dang" or "darn", but she said "shit", and even said
"fuckin'" one time when I put my bedspread on the bed backwards.
Damaeus
Damaeus
"Farmer Giles" <Gi...@nospam.com> posted:
> It is an appalling word. Sadly, here in England some youngsters use it all
> the time (as well as its alternative!). Used as both a noun and an
> adjective, it clearly marks those who use it as being both vulgar and unable
> to express themselves properly.
I agree with the view that one who uses "profanity" is unable to express
themselves properly. Whether the word is considered profane or not, the
fact remains that it's still just a word, and rhythmically speaking,
sometimes using a "dirty word" word just sounds better than trying to
weasel around it. Unfortunately, Internet Relay Chat channel operators
get their jollies censoring users, so free expression is not yet a part of
IRC.
Funny, too. In America, where people want their freedoms, we have people
who love to trample on the freedoms of others.
Damaeus
Damaeus
"John Dean" <john...@fraglineone.net> posted:
> "couldn't give a crap" gets 58,000 hits on Yahoo
> "could give a crap" gets 94,000
> "couldn't give a shit" 201,000
> "could give a shit" gets 198,000
> "couldn't give a toss" 160,000
> "could give a toss" 9,600
One of my pet peeves:
"could care less" gets 1,970,000 hits.
"couldn't care less" gets 1,190,000 hits.
My roommate says "could care less", and when I pointed out how it doesn't
make sense to say that when you're trying to say that you care as little
as possible, he informed me that it's just an expression. All I could do
is just look at him. How do you argue with someone who replied like that
to my pointing out of the fallacy of that expression? I just let it go,
feeling like I was letting him walk around the mall with a booger on his
mustache.
Damaeus
Nicholas Adams
Well, whatever's the difference:
Bull- "shit" just sounds better that Bull- "crap". doesn't it?
Nicholas
Damaeus
Damaeus <no-...@damaeus.yahoo.invalid> posted:
> Reading from news:alt.english.usage,
> "Farmer Giles" <Gi...@nospam.com> posted:
>
> > It is an appalling word. Sadly, here in England some youngsters use it all
> > the time (as well as its alternative!). Used as both a noun and an
> > adjective, it clearly marks those who use it as being both vulgar and unable
> > to express themselves properly.
>
> I agree with the view that one who uses "profanity" is unable to express
> themselves properly.
Woops, I meant to say I "disagree". LOL
David Kaye
>My junior-high English teacher used "crap" in class, and claimed it wasn't
>a dirty word.
As I posted here earlier, it's not a dirty word, or wasn't originally. It
simply means useless leftovers.
Leslie Danks
Tell that to a dung beetle.
--
Les (BrE)
tony cooper
wrote:
"Dirty word" seems a bit over-the-top, but I think it's a rather
offensive word. Like "f**k", we know exactly what you mean when you
use it, and if you mean "shit", then use "shit". Either be offensive
in an outright manner or don't be offensive at all.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
CDB
> sfdavi...@yahoo.com (David Kaye) wrote:
>> Damaeus <no-...@damaeus.yahoo.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> My junior-high English teacher used "crap" in class, and claimed
>>> it wasn't a dirty word.
>>
>> As I posted here earlier, it's not a dirty word, or wasn't
>> originally. It simply means useless leftovers.
>
> "Dirty word" seems a bit over-the-top, but I think it's a rather
> offensive word. Like "f**k", we know exactly what you mean when you
> use it, and if you mean "shit", then use "shit". Either be
> offensive in an outright manner or don't be offensive at all.
I disagree. I think there's a place for moderately-offensive
language. You may wish to say "shit" without dragging in the
implications that come with saying it, just as you might choose
"screw" in place of "fuck". Those two pairs seem parallel to me.
>
Someone once posted some racist nonsense in the other place, and I
responded with a rebuke in which I called it "crap". The poster was
from another culture, Russian, I think, and I wanted her to know that
what she had said was unacceptable. On the other hand, she seemed to
be a person of good will, not a troll. I surmised that what she had
said was current and more acceptable, at least as a joke, where she
lived, and I didn't want to attack her personally. Therefore, "crap",
not "shit".