real estate vs non-real estate

[Tom P]

Many European language have words to distinguish between real estate
whose ownership can be transferred by legal means, and other forms of
property, such as money.
What is the correct terminology in English?

[CRNG]

On Thu, 11 Feb 2016 13:12:28 +0100, Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote
in <di3c5c...@mid.individual.net>

Personal property. Generally in the U.S., there are two kinds of
property: real estate and personal. Special rules apply to real
estate, e.g. in many states require that agreements for sale of real
estate _must_ be in writing (however simple).
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[Peter Young]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_estate gives half of the answer, showing that the definition of real estate differs from your definition. The rest of the answer is, approximately, at <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_(law)>

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Don Phillipson]

"Tom P" <wero...@freent.dd> wrote in message
news:di3c5c...@mid.individual.net...

Likely sources for the word you seek:
-- a thesaurus;
-- Internet advice about wills (testaments) under English law.
These often need to distinguish between real estate, liquid assets,
moveables, and perhaps other classes of valuable property.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Whiskers]

I think the distinction is a matter of law in different jurisdictions,
rather than a matter of grammar or vocabulary. In Britain the various
terms and distinctions are quite complex, often being Latin or
Norman-French in origin, and not the same in England as in Scotland.

If you're looking for words that might occur in casual conversation,
then in British English 'goods' generally means things you can move and
'land' means what you can walk on (with the owner's permission of
course). 'Take all your possessions with you' is the sort of reminder
you might hear when a bus or train reaches your destination. 'Luggage'
is what you might take on a holiday or business trip - or it might mean
just the specially made containers for carrying that stuff, eg
suit-cases or cabin-trunks. In a 'last will and testament', 'property'
might mean land and/or buildings, 'estate' means all the goods and
property or properties and money and investments owned by the person.

In casual speech, 'property' can include 'land' 'goods' and 'money'.

Both the legal definitions and common speech usage in other English
speaking countries may have originated in Britain but have diverged
significantly over the centuries since then.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

That is useful advice.

However, I'm confused because I don't know the distinction in other
European languages.

An important difference I see in English, in the UK, is that the
ownership of some types of property can be transferred only by means of
a legal document. That applies to land and buldings. There are legal
documents known as "title deeds" which show the ownership of that type
of property. If ownership is transferred by sale or gift a new title
deed needs be created showing the new owner of that property. That will
typically involve a lawyer.

On the other hand, if a bicycle is sold or given to someone else there
is no need for any legal formality.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

[Tom P]

Quite. So what is the generic term for property other than land and
buildings.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

I don't think I've ever come across such a term.

[John Varela]

In AmE, real estate (or real property) is land and the permanent
structures on the land. Land transfers, whether by sale, gift, or
inheritance, must be recorded with the state, and the state issues a
deed (or title) to the land. There may also be taxes involved.

Similarly, transfer of ownership of a motor vehicle also involves
receipt of a title from the state, payment of fees, and sometimes
taxes, but motor vehicles are not real estate.

Offhand, I can't think of any other form of property for which the
state issues a title.

--
John Varela

[Envo]

"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
news:2aupbbhv1alq5mg3b...@4ax.com...

-s-s-s-s-s-s-

Chattels?

Envo

[Tom P]

I had a look at linguee.com for some examples. Some translations sound
very much EU-interpreter English. So "unbewegliche und bewegliche
Vermögen" gets translated as "immovable and movable property"

[Robin Bignall]

The French have Meubles and immeubles, which I think of as movables and
unmovables.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

My impression is that in English that distinction is made in the
contexts of wills and inheritance and the sale of land and buildings.

A colloquial term for movable things that people own is "belongings".
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/belongings

A person’s movable possessions:

"she didn’t have much baggage with her as most of her belongings had
been sent ahead by sea."
"I lost things, had things stolen, had people rummage through my
belongings, my drawers."
"Manny took some personal belongings from Mrs Schendel, but ignored
many more valuable items."
"They add that nobody should leave personal belongings and money
lying around a house.

In the context of selling land and buildings a distinction is made
between "fixtures" and "chattels".

The following is from the website of the UK professional body the Royal
Institute of Chartered Surveyors:
http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/glossary/fixtures-and-fittings-chattels/

What are the differences between fixtures and chattels? Chattels are
frequently referred to as fittings but the term fitting has no
meaning in the legal context. A fixture is deemed to form part of
the land or building. A chattel retains its independence and can be
removed. A chattel does not pass onto the purchaser when the land or
building is sold.

There are two basic tests to distinguish a fixture from a chattel:

Degree of annexation

This depends upon how firmly an object is fastened or fixed to a
property. The greater the degree of annexation or physical
connection the more likely an object is to be a fixture.

Removability

How easy is it to remove the object? The easier it is to remove the
more likely it is to be a chattel.

Legal advice
<including examples>

There is also the standard phrase "goods and chattels". It is used
mainly in a legal context:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/goods-and-chattels?q=goods+and+chattels

chiefly Law
All kinds of personal possessions:
"inventories of household goods and chattels"

[Tom P]

That does not include money in cash, bank deposits, securities, shares,
etc which are the non-real estate items I was primarily thinking of.

[Opinicus]

On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 12:11:14 +0100, Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote:

>That does not include money in cash, bank deposits, securities, shares,
>etc which are the non-real estate items I was primarily thinking of.

Those sound like "fungibles".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungibility

--
Bob
Lehman Brothers: We put the "fun" in "fungibles"
www.kanyak.com

[Janet]

In article <di47v3...@mid.individual.net>, wero...@freent.dd
says...

'goods and chattels'


Janet

[Janet]

In article <di4fu8...@mid.individual.net>, wero...@freent.dd
says...

In Scottish inheritance law, a distinction is made between heritable
and moveable property.

Heritable property means land and buildings, while moveable property
includes such things as money, shares, cars, furniture and jewellery.

Janet