'be it' instead of using 'whether it is'

[Lazypierrot]

Hi ! I would like to know
1) whether the use of ***be it*** really "formal and old fashioned",
which is often said in grammar books, or "less formal and popular",
which is stated in the following comment, which I have cited from
another BB about English usage.

and

2) what effect the ***be it*** form has instead of using ***whether it
is***.

---------------------------------------------------------------
I would normally think of this construction(= be it) as very formal.
However, it has been a fad lately, at least in US advertising and
commentary, to overuse this construction. I believe the fad is fading,
but a few years ago it would not be unusual to hear this in a
television advertisement for cars or soap.

In other words, I think it has been considered **formal in the past**,
in general, but it is enjoying **some popularity in less formal
contexts recently**. I find it very odd that it would be adopted into
less formal contexts, but from my experience it definitely has.

Here are some recent examples of this construction

An open source invention - ***be it*** the code for the popular
Firefox browser or the blueprints for a $100 laptop - operates under
open source principles. Until very recently, this has only thrived in
the weightless world of computer code.

***Be it*** the style of your hair or the way you walk, if your steady
suddenly finds fault with everything you do s/he is probably trying to
push you away.

I find it quite dangerous that so many people want to become their
own boss because they hate their current jobs. They want to escape
from what they hate, ***be it*** the boring job itself or the
demanding boss or the work environment. I don’t say this is no good
for moral reasons

Best regards,

LP

[John Lawler]

You're not going to understand this if you think of it as only
the two words "be it". It's a construction, and it has quite a lot
of other stuff going on.

First, it occurs only in a subordinate clause of a particular
kind: there are always at least two (usually reduced) clauses,
disjoined with an "or"; the implication is that either clause is
possible, but it's not known which one.

So it alternates with "whether" clauses.
(BTW, "whether" is just the wh-word used with Yes/No
questions when forming an embedded question clause:

I don't know the answer to the question "Where is he?".
===> I don't know where he is.
I don't know the answer to the question "Is he here?".
===> I don't know whether he is here.)

1) Be it the rain or the company, it doesn't look like fun.
2) Whether it's the rain or the company, it doesn't look like fun.

You can only use "be it" initially if the verb in the "whether"
clause is "be". If you use a different verb, you can't front it:

3) Whether he goes north or south, it'll take him 3 hours.
4) *Go he north or south, it'll take him 3 hours.

If it's a form of "be", however, it can be fronted, but only as "be",
never as "is", "am", or "are". This is an infinitive form, which
substituted for the subjunctive forms after they were lost in
English.

(If you want to see what subjunctive verb forms really are like,
take a look at the paradigm of the German verb "sein" 'to be'.)

5) Whether he is alive or (he is) dead, I'll crush his bones to make
my bread.
6) Whether he be alive or (he be) dead, I'll ...
7) Be he alive or (be he) dead, I'll ...

The "be it" form always corresponds to a whether-clause
with a structure: Whether it is... or (it is) ..., S. These are
pretty frequent, especially in formal language. "It is" can
be manufactured ad lib by using a cleft construction, which
produces a dummy "it" and a dummy form of "be":

8) He likes the fried potatoes.
===> (Cleft)
9) It is the fried potatoes that he likes.

The "be it" construction is called "subjunctive" by some
people because
a) it uses an odd verb form
b) it uses an odd word order
c) it expresses some possibility and lack of knowledge

This is not what "subjunctive" means, but it is what is often
taught to students in Anglophone schools as "subjunctive".

-John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/complmnt.html
Happy Hogswatch All and May Gods Bless Us, Every One.
(Atheists may request the vegetarian alternative.)

[Anton Shepelev]

I can't help noting that exactly the same structure
is present in Russian -- "bud' eto", "bud' to". It
even allows normal verbs. For examle, this sen-
tence:

> *Go he north or south, it'll take him 3 hours.

can be translated as:

Idi on na sever ili na yug -- vse-ravno 3 chasa puti.
Go he north or south...

Anton

[Lazypierrot]

Thanks for your kind and detailed explanation. You mentioned that
the "be it" construction is used quite frequently, especially in
formal English. I wonder what effect the speaker intends when s/he
uses the structure instead of "whether it is". It seems to me, an EFL
speaker, "be it" should be rather colloquial while "whether it is "
form more formal, because "be it" only consists of two short words and
easier to pronounce, while "whether it is" has three words and takes
more time to speak. I would like to know how native speakers feel
about the difference.

Best wishes,

LP

[Eric Walker]

This subject seems to arise frequently. The key is that English commonly
has more than one way of expressing certain grammatical forms, typically
an older, simpler one and a newer one offering a greater range of
expression. Examples abound. There is the genitive case, which is many
circumstances can be expressed by the apostrophe-s or by the modal "of".
There is the dative case, which can be expressed by word order or by the
modal "to":

I gave her some flowers.

I gave some flowers to her.

And there is the subjunctive mood, which can be expressed by
morphological verb-form changes or by use of auxiliaries. Mind, in many
cases, the verb form for the subjunctive and the indicative are alike,
and we must deduce the mood from the context; the most notable mood-
inflected verb is "be". In the first person, the verb "be" takes a
distinctive form in the subjunctive:

This is true, and so our plans must change. [indicative]

If this be true, all our plans are for naught. [subjunctive]

Be it ever so humble, there's no place like home. [subjunctive]

But the same thoughts can usually be expressed with a wider range of
shadings by the use of some member of the "past-present" auxiliary verbs
(so called because they are remnants of once-full verbs that now exost
only with a present and past tense, such as "can" and "could").

The sense of what constitutes richness and dignity in English has been
largely influenced by the translators of the King James Bible, and the
very adjective "Biblical" as to language refers, almost always in a
positive sense, to speech or writing that sounds like that in the KJB.
In that style, the older subjunctive mode is common, so that use of that
older subjunctive form suggests rich, or "poetical" language, whereas the
newer forms sound more "efficient" and "usual" but less elegant.

Curme, in his "English Grammar", writes that--

The old simple subjunctive would look shabby alongside of the modern
subjunctive with a modal auxiliary it it were not surrounded by a halo
of poetry. Its extensive use in poetry along with the other heirlooms
of the past has given it a touch of elevation and a charm to which we
are all susceptible.


--
Cordially,
Eric Walker

[Jerry Avins]

On 11/13/2011 12:29 AM, Lazypierrot wrote:
> Hi ! I would like to know
> 1) whether the use of ***be it*** really "formal and old fashioned",
> which is often said in grammar books, or "less formal and popular",
> which is stated in the following comment, which I have cited from
> another BB about English usage.
>
> and
>
> 2) what effect the ***be it*** form has instead of using ***whether it
> is***.

Be it ever so humble, the subjunctive still exists. Your "whether it is"
should properly be "whether it be", the subjunctive form. If this be
strange, make the most if it.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.

[THE COLONEL]

"Lazypierrot" <lazyp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6f2a7638-ea47-472e...@s40g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

I just had a "brain fart" thinking about it.