120/208 VAC Service

[J.B. Wood]

Hello, all. Has anyone ever come across a twist-lock plug that just has
3 current-carrying wires L1, L2 and neutral (N) such that L1-N is 120 V,
L2-N is 120 V and L1-N and L2-N are 120 electrical degrees apart? IOW,
there is no L3 wire as you would normally(?) expect. Thanks for your
time and comment. Sincerely,
--
J. B. Wood e-mail: arl_1...@hotmail.com

[J.B. Wood]

On 05/22/2013 02:47 PM, J.B. Wood wrote:
> Hello, all. Has anyone ever come across a twist-lock plug that just has
> 3 current-carrying wires L1, L2 and neutral (N) such that L1-N is 120 V,
> L2-N is 120 V and L1-N and L2-N are 120 electrical degrees apart? IOW,
> there is no L3 wire as you would normally(?) expect. Thanks for your
> time and comment. Sincerely,

Hello, again, and I should have said "receptacle" vice "plug".

[Tom Biasi]

What's the voltage between L1 and L2?

[J.B. Wood]

Hello, and given the 120 degree difference the line-to-line voltage
would be 120 * sqrt(3) = 208 V. We have what would essentially be a
4-wire wye 120/208 VAC service but the L3 wire is absent. So again I
don't know if this 3-wire service is common. I wouldn't think so but
I'm not an electrician/electrical contractor. Sincerely,

[Tom Biasi]

I was just asking to see if you determined (measured) the 120� correctly.
No offense intended.
Tom

[Salmon Egg]

In article <knj3si$o9s$1...@ra.nrl.navy.mil>,

"J.B. Wood" <john...@nrl.navy.mil> wrote:

> Hello, all. Has anyone ever come across a twist-lock plug that just has
> 3 current-carrying wires L1, L2 and neutral (N) such that L1-N is 120 V,
> L2-N is 120 V and L1-N and L2-N are 120 electrical degrees apart? IOW,
> there is no L3 wire as you would normally(?) expect. Thanks for your
> time and comment. Sincerely,

IIRC, I ran into it in Santa Monica. It might have been 240V rather than
120V, but the idea is the same. As long as you do not need a symmetrical
neutral, it is no problem. It still would be a good idea to have a
protective ground,

--

Sam

Conservatives are against Darwinism but for natural selection.
Liberals are for Darwinism but totally against any selection.

[Rich.]

"J.B. Wood" <john...@nrl.navy.mil> wrote in message
news:knj3si$o9s$1...@ra.nrl.navy.mil...

You didn't specify an amperage, but for a 15-amp circuit you would use a
NEMA L6-15R, for 20 a NEMA L6-20R, for 30 a NEMA L6-30R. This will give you
your 3 terminals. X & Y would be the hots and G would be the neutral or
ground wire.

[J.B. Wood]

On 05/22/2013 03:38 PM, Tom Biasi wrote:
> I was just asking to see if you determined (measured) the 120� correctly.
> No offense intended.
> Tom

Hello, and I did measure the L1-L2 voltage with a VOM and it indicated
207.8 VAC. The L1-N and L2-N measured 119.7 VAC. The remaining slot on
the twist-lock receptacle doesn't appear to be connected to anything.
I'm also assuming the slot I identified as neutral (N) isn't a ground
wire since for that case the receptacle would be intended as only a 208
VAC single-phase outlet. Sincerely,

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 06:10:59 -0400, "J.B. Wood"
<john...@nrl.navy.mil> wrote:

>On 05/22/2013 03:38 PM, Tom Biasi wrote:
>> I was just asking to see if you determined (measured) the 120� correctly.
>> No offense intended.
>> Tom
>
>Hello, and I did measure the L1-L2 voltage with a VOM and it indicated
>207.8 VAC. The L1-N and L2-N measured 119.7 VAC. The remaining slot on
>the twist-lock receptacle doesn't appear to be connected to anything.

Is that the third leg, just dead?

>I'm also assuming the slot I identified as neutral (N) isn't a ground
>wire since for that case the receptacle would be intended as only a 208
>VAC single-phase outlet. Sincerely,

Why would you assume that there is a neutral but not safety ground?
Why not 208? Maybe I missed something in the discussion above but it
makes no sense to have two phases of a three phase 'Y', with no safety
ground. Single phase 208V w/ground doesn't seem to be nearly as
far-fetched. Can you open the receptacle? Perhaps there is a clue in
there (a ground would normally be either green or bare).

[Mark F]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 14:47:46 -0400, "J.B. Wood"
<john...@nrl.navy.mil> wrote:

> Hello, all. Has anyone ever come across a twist-lock plug that just has
> 3 current-carrying wires L1, L2 and neutral (N) such that L1-N is 120 V,
> L2-N is 120 V and L1-N and L2-N are 120 electrical degrees apart? IOW,
> there is no L3 wire as you would normally(?) expect. Thanks for your
> time and comment. Sincerely,

I lived in a part of New York City that typically had 2 phases in
each house. I don't know how much of NYC is wired that way, but
in Queens the areas known as Floral Park (adjacent to, but not the
same as Floral Park in Nassau County) and Glen Oaks we had a nominal
208V AC.

You had to be careful when buying air conditioners, electric
stoves, electric driers, and some power tools in Nassau County because
you had to make sure that you got stuff wired for 208V, not 240V.

The stuff my family owned used plugs with two phases plus ground.
We didn't have an electric stove or electric drier, but they would
typically need 208V and 120V. I don't know if they had a separate
circuit for clocks and lights or if they used Ground as neutral
or had a separate neutral line. Many houses didn't have grounded
120V outlets and I'd bet that many houses didn't have Ground
for 208V and 240V outlets, no matter what the code was when the
house was built.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 06:10:59 -0400, "J.B. Wood" <john...@nrl.navy.mil>
wrote:

It has to do with wye and delta transformation and the differences
between them with respect to where "ground" is and where "neutral" is.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

Clocks ran synchronous with power frequency, so that voltage difference
would not matter, save for the fact that 240 into a 208 synchronous
"motor' might fry it. But it would still run at the same rpm.