Which phase is my electrik socket on?
Cameo
know if the 120 V sockets I plan to use are on the same phase or not. Is
there any easy (and inexpensive) way to figure that out? Those adapters
don't really work across different phases. I live in the US.
krw
wrote:
Find which circuits they're on. If they are on the same side of the
breaker box and there is an odd number of breakers between them (not
the numbers, but the spaces) they will likely be on the same leg. If
they're on the opposite side, count evens. This isn't 100% assured,
but it should work. A peek inside will tell you for sure.
James Sweet
Find out what breaker the receptacles are on and then look at where
those are plugged in. They're interleaved with every other breaker down
the row being on the same bus. If they're on opposite sides you can
usually swap two side by side breakers to get the one you're interested
in on the side you want it.
Archimedes' Lever
>On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 20:39:43 -0800, "Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>The X-10 folks sell a bridge you can put across the phases that will
>pass the high frequency PLC signals across to the other phase. It is
>basically just a capacitor but it is in a U/L listed package.
Easiest solution, but get an electrician to put it in. You only need
one to cross-communicate the entire buss.
F Murtz
pull a fuse or switch a breaker and test each outlet, you will then know
which ones are on the same circuit.
krw
wrote:
That doesn't tell you which side of the center tap they're on. The
two "hots" are interleaved down each side of the panel, so an odd
number between will be on the same "side" of the transformer.
Archimedes' Lever
With the crossover cap, one does not even need to make a determination.
A much faster solution.
krw
That doesn't answer the question asked, AlwaysWrong. Doesn't always
work, either.
Archimedes' Lever
Always works if the network devices comply with the spec. Yes, there is
one.
You are always an idiot.
Proteus IIV
wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 10:43:34 -0600, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
> >On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 08:35:22 -0800, Archimedes' Lever
> ><OneBigLe...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
>
> >>On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 09:41:09 -0600, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
> >>>wrote:
>
> >>>>Cameo wrote:
> >>>>> Before buying a set of HomePlug powerline ethernet adapters, I'd like to
> >>>>> know if the 120 V sockets I plan to use are on the same phase or not. Is
> >>>>> there any easy (and inexpensive) way to figure that out? Those adapters
> >>>>> don't really work across different phases. I live in the US.
>
> >>>>pull a fuse or switch a breaker and test each outlet, you will then know
> >>>>which ones are on the same circuit.
>
> >>>That doesn't tell you which side of the center tap they're on. The
> >>>two "hots" are interleaved down each side of the panel, so an odd
> >>>number between will be on the same "side" of the transformer.
>
> >> With the crossover cap, one does not even need to make a determination.
> >>A much faster solution.
>
> >That doesn't answer the question asked, AlwaysWrong. Doesn't always
> >work, either.
>
> Always works if the network devices comply with the spec. Yes, there is
> one.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
MAY BE
BUT BESIDE BEING A TOTAL FAGGOTY FUCKTARD AND A TROLL
YOU HAVE THE LEAD IN IDIOTIC MOVES AND RESPONSES IN THIS GROUP
SO SHUT YOUR VIRTUAL MOUTH UP ONCE AND FOR ALL
I AM PROTEUS
Rich.
"James Sweet" <james...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hhpcva$61q$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> the row being on the same bus. If they're on opposite sides you can
> usually swap two side by side breakers to get the one you're interested in
> on the side you want it.
Not if the breakers go to a 3-wire. The black and red of a 3-wire have to
remain on opposite phases or you risk burning up the neutral and starting an
electrical fire.
Archimedes' Lever
I thought that you UK guys all had a single phase 240 volt feed.
You guys use a center tapped transformer as well?
Michael A. Terrell
Sigh. If you connect the red & black to the same phase for a 240
volt load, it gets zero volts.
--
Greed is the root of all eBay.
krw
<OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
AlwaysWrong is as always, wrong.
> You are always an idiot.
You are a liar as well as being always wrong, AlwaysWrong. Christian,
my ass.
Cameo
> pull a fuse or switch a breaker and test each outlet, you will then
> know which ones are on the same circuit.
I already know they are NOT on the same fused circuit. I just don't know
if they are still on the same phase or not.
Archimedes' Lever
>
>You are a liar as well as being always wrong, AlwaysWrong. Christian,
>my ass.
Sorry, but it is not Christian to "Christian your ass". Besides, I do
not possess the inhuman desires that a sub-human twit like you, K-Tard
the Retard does.
Cameo
news:4rj1k5lf8lqce3k1j...@4ax.com...
>
> Always works if the network devices comply with the spec. Yes, there
> is
> one.
>
> You are always an idiot.
Oh come on guys, I didn't post my question to start a name calling
thread. Can't we just get along?
krw
<OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 13:54:03 -0600, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
>>
>>You are a liar as well as being always wrong, AlwaysWrong. Christian,
>>my ass.
>
>
> Sorry, but it is not Christian to "Christian your ass".
You are an ass, and *claim* to be a Christian ('tis very funny). Ok
if you prefer - Christian, your ass.
>Besides, I do not possess the inhuman desires that a sub-human twit like you, K-Tard
>the Retard does.
Of course you do, since you're not human, DimBulb. Once again,
AlwaysWrong proves he's always wrong.
Archimedes' Lever
One test would be to simply hook 'em up and see if they "talk" to each
other. Doesn't get much more simple than that.
krw
wrote:
DimBulb? Never.
Archimedes' Lever
That is the K-Tard's standard Modus Operandi. He issues attacks on me
at every turn. All you need to do is watch,. He'll be back with more, I
assure you. He is too goddamned immature to restrain himself. That is
also why his palms are so hairy. and his prick is loaded up with Herpes
sores.
krw
<OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
>On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 12:08:36 -0800, "Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote:
>
>>"Archimedes' Lever" <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote in message
>>news:4rj1k5lf8lqce3k1j...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> Always works if the network devices comply with the spec. Yes, there
>>> is
>>> one.
>>>
>>> You are always an idiot.
>>
>>Oh come on guys, I didn't post my question to start a name calling
>>thread. Can't we just get along?
>
>
> That is the K-Tard's standard Modus Operandi. He issues attacks on me
>at every turn.
Oh, you poor baby, DimBulb.
>All you need to do is watch,.
Now DimBulb will be happy. His mommy's hamper is his real joy,
though.
>He'll be back with more, I
>assure you. He is too goddamned immature to restrain himself. That is
>also why his palms are so hairy. and his prick is loaded up with Herpes
>sores.
AlwaysWrong is of course, wrong. He's just always, wrong.
krw
DimBulb, you're a dumb shit and wrong, as always. He doesn't want to
buy them until he's sure they'll work. There is no such assurance,
but he's been given answers to his question, no thanks to you.
Rich.
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:8u2dnXVnGqgobd3W...@earthlink.com...
Like the original poster, I was talking about 120 volt circuits and then
expanded upon your answer to clarify when a 3-wire is is used as the homerun
to the panel. A 240 volt load has nothing to do with it. With a 3-wire
homerun, the black and red have to be on opposite phases in order to have
the neutral carry the unbalanced load. If the breakers for the black and red
were on the same phase, then the neutral could end up carrying the full load
of both circuits and burn up. So because of potential 3-wire homeruns, one
cannot simply swap breakers that are next to each other without knowing if
it can be safely done.
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
Simple until the thermostat opens and disconnects that 240V baseboard heater
through which they were talking.
--
Paul Hovnanian pa...@hovnanian.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.
Archimedes' Lever
Precisely correct.
Archimedes' Lever
<pa...@hovnanian.com> wrote:
>Archimedes' Lever wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 12:03:15 -0800, "Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>"F Murtz" <hag...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> pull a fuse or switch a breaker and test each outlet, you will then
>>>> know which ones are on the same circuit.
>>>
>>>I already know they are NOT on the same fused circuit. I just don't know
>>>if they are still on the same phase or not.
>>
>>
>> One test would be to simply hook 'em up and see if they "talk" to each
>> other. Doesn't get much more simple than that.
>
>Simple until the thermostat opens and disconnects that 240V baseboard heater
>through which they were talking.
>
Any dope that uses electric to heat his space(s) with in this day and
age deserves all the problems that world can hand to him.
James Sweet
Well when you know what fuse/breaker each is on, then you know which
phase each is on just by looking at the panel.
James Sweet
I hadn't thought of those, I've seen it done once, but I don't
particularly care for the idea. Personally I always use standard 2
conductor cable so each 120V circuit gets its own neutral.
Hope for the Heartless
F Murtz <hag...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Multiple circuits are usually on the same phase. What you want to do is
get a circuit tester and string it from the hot line of one to the hot
line of the other. If there's enough differential voltage to light the
tester, they're on different phases. If there's not, they're on the
same phase, but perhaps not the same circuit.
Or you could use a voltmeter. The voltage between different phases in a
house is 240 volts or so. The voltage between different outlets on the
same phase is a lot less than 120V. In a building with 3-phase power,
you will see either about 240 or 208 between phases. Again, if it's a
lot less, it's the same phase.
Archimedes' Lever
<h.hea...@bitbucket.gov> wrote:
>Multiple circuits are usually on the same phase.
Jeez, you really are clueless.
Try not to say shit that will endanger folks with your fucked in the
electrical knowledge. At least you didn't do that... yet.
Cameo
> Well when you know what fuse/breaker each is on, then you know which
> phase each is on just by looking at the panel.
OK, I made a couple of pics of the breaker panel and I hope you can view
them on the following links.
These are the breakers:
<http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfMmR4ZjVqNWo2&hl=en>
The circuit breakers I am interested in are the blue ones on the left
and the one immediately above them, labelled "Foyer, etc." For some
reason it's 30A, while the blue ones below are 15A. I'd like to be sure
that the "Foyer" breaker is on the same phase as the 2nd from the
bottom, labelled "Kitch/Fam Rm Lights." I'd rather not call en expensive
electrician to install a bridge capacitor or whatever.
The following link shows some info about the breaker panel and it's
pasted inside of the panel door:
<http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfMGN3N3Rrcmcz&hl=en>
I hope it can help you experts to answer my original question so I don't
end up with a useless HomePlug kit.
Cameo
news:yZOdnXoWI_gLlNzW...@posted.isomediainc...
> Simple until the thermostat opens and disconnects that 240V baseboard
> heater
> through which they were talking.
Paul, I'm not sure how all this connects to my original question but
it's a pleasant surprise to see your name pop up after all these years
since I saw it last time at Lazy B's internal news groups. I guess you
left it, too. It was fun till it lasted, huh?
Archimedes' Lever
>"James Sweet" <james...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:hhr70r$nqb$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Well when you know what fuse/breaker each is on, then you know which
>> phase each is on just by looking at the panel.
>
>OK, I made a couple of pics of the breaker panel and I hope you can view
>them on the following links.
>
>These are the breakers:
>
><http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfMmR4ZjVqNWo2&hl=en>
>
The color coding tells me that one side is one phase, and the other is
the other phase.
I am guessing due to never having seen such a configuration, but I am
betting that the entire left side is one phase, and the entire right side
is the other phase.
Rich.
"Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote in message
news:hhrjil$1h7$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> <http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfMmR4ZjVqNWo2&hl=en>
>
> The circuit breakers I am interested in are the blue ones on the left and
> the one immediately above them, labelled "Foyer, etc." For some reason
> it's 30A, while the blue ones below are 15A. I'd like to be sure that the
> "Foyer" breaker is on the same phase as the 2nd from the bottom, labelled
> "Kitch/Fam Rm Lights."
They are not on the same phases. The "Foyer" breaker is on the "A" phase
while the "Kitch/Fam Rm Lights" breaker is on the "B" phase. What might be
confusing you is those blue breakers are mini breakers. They are nothing
more than two 1/2" tall breakers bound together to fit into one 1" tall
breaker slot. Each 1" tall breaker slot is on a phase. The first left/right
pair starting at the top is on the "A" side, the second left/right pair is
on the "B" side, the third left/right pair is on the "A" side, the forth
left/right pair is on the "B" side, etc.
Rich.
"Rich." <rc...@XXcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:hhrmv...@news2.newsguy.com...
Um sorry I make a mistake in identifying the "A" and "B" phases. Everything
I wrote is correct except that you'll need to swap every "A" with a "B" and
vice-versa.
krw
<OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
>On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 18:25:30 -0800, "Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote:
>
>>"James Sweet" <james...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:hhr70r$nqb$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Well when you know what fuse/breaker each is on, then you know which
>>> phase each is on just by looking at the panel.
>>
>>OK, I made a couple of pics of the breaker panel and I hope you can view
>>them on the following links.
>>
>>These are the breakers:
>>
>><http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfMmR4ZjVqNWo2&hl=en>
>>
>
> The color coding tells me that one side is one phase, and the other is
>the other phase.
You mean the blue 15A double-breakers and the red 20A double-breakers,
AlwaysWrong? Wrong again, as always. What a dufus.
> I am guessing due to never having seen such a configuration, but I am
>betting that the entire left side is one phase, and the entire right side
>is the other phase.
What an ignorant ass, you are, AlwaysWrong. The oven and the drier
are going to work *real* well on zero volts. No 240V circuits could
be used in the box if you were right. As always, you're wrong.
Cameo
>> They are not on the same phases. The "Foyer" breaker is on the "A"
>> phase while the "Kitch/Fam Rm Lights" breaker is on the "B" phase.
>> What might be confusing you is those blue breakers are mini breakers.
>> They are nothing more than two 1/2" tall breakers bound together to
>> fit into one 1" tall breaker slot. Each 1" tall breaker slot is on a
>> phase. The first left/right pair starting at the top is on the "A"
>> side, the second left/right pair is on the "B" side, the third
>> left/right pair is on the "A" side, the forth left/right pair is on
>> the "B" side, etc.
>
> Um sorry I make a mistake in identifying the "A" and "B" phases.
> Everything I wrote is correct except that you'll need to swap every
> "A" with a "B" and vice-versa.
Oh, shoot! There goes my HomePlug idea unless I really want to call an
electrician. But that in itself would probably cost more than a good
HomePlug kit. Anyway, thanks for the reply.
James Sweet
The legs/phases/buses in the panel are interleaved, so the first slot is
leg A, the next one down is leg B, the one below that is leg A, and
below that B, and so on. The blue breakers are doubles, so each pair of
those is a slot. In your case the garage light is on the same phase as
the kitchen lights
Cameo
news:p8f0k557u25ic2m0f...@4ax.com...
> The X-10 folks sell a bridge you can put across the phases that will
> pass the high frequency PLC signals across to the other phase. It is
> basically just a capacitor but it is in a U/L listed package.
It just occured to me that X-10 and HomePlug frequencies are quite
different and I wonder if that X-10 bridge would even work for HomePlug.
Archimedes' Lever
I was not referring to ANY of the 240 volt service breakers, you
retarded twit. Obviously.
I also said that I was unfamiliar with it and that I was making an
assumption.
Archimedes' Lever
wrote:
Best description yet. That "left, right, left" crap was too confusing.
Archimedes' Lever
It passes HF from one phase to the other, so there is no reason it
wouldn't.
It is high pass filter, so there would be no limit imposed, so there
should be no reason it wouldn't work.
Cameo
> It passes HF from one phase to the other, so there is no reason it
> wouldn't.
>
> It is high pass filter, so there would be no limit imposed, so there
> should be no reason it wouldn't work.
Come to think of it the X-10 control for my christmas tree lights is
also in the same family room I was planning to put the 2nd HomePlug
adapter and it worked with the X-10 controller that is on the foyer
circuit. How come that worked across the two phases? I did not put in
any filter bridge for that.
F Murtz
> On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 22:54:53 +1100, F Murtz<hag...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Cameo wrote:
>>> Before buying a set of HomePlug powerline ethernet adapters, I'd like to
>>> know if the 120 V sockets I plan to use are on the same phase or not. Is
>>> there any easy (and inexpensive) way to figure that out? Those adapters
>>> don't really work across different phases. I live in the US.
>>
>> pull a fuse or switch a breaker and test each outlet, you will then know
>> which ones are on the same circuit.
>
> two "hots" are interleaved down each side of the panel, so an odd
> number between will be on the same "side" of the transformer.
Does not matter he just wants the adapter on the same bit of wireing.
F Murtz
>> know which ones are on the same circuit.
>
Take the cover off the board and you should be able to physically see
which phase goes to which fuses and track it from there
bud--
Nice pics - "a picture is worth a thousand words" certainly applies.
I agree with Rich.
An electrician (or other competent person) could swap a couple breaker
connections so "kitchen/..." is on the same leg as "foyer". [I would not
use "phase" for buses in a single phase panel.]
I would add that "Foyer" in all probability should be a 15A (or small
possibility a 20A) breaker. If it supplies 'ordinary' outlets you should
really change it - 30A is a fire hazard.
What you have is a "split bus" panel which is relatively unusual. It is
OK but a new service panel would have a single service disconnect at the
top. You have 3, and could have up to 6.
The breaker "color" tells you which breakers are 15A and which are 20A -
another miss for AlwaysWrong.
--
bud--
Michael A. Terrell
You didn't state that you were running two 120 volt circuits with a
common neutral, so do try moving the goalposts.
--
Greed is the root of all eBay.
Michael A. Terrell
Cameo wrote:
>
> "Archimedes' Lever" <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote in message
> >
> > Always works if the network devices comply with the spec. Yes, there
> > is
> > one.
> >
> > You are always an idiot.
>
> Oh come on guys, I didn't post my question to start a name calling
> thread. Can't we just get along?
You are replying to a low grade, nitwit troll.
Here just some of his nyms:
THE DIMBULB SCORECARD
Abbey Somebody <abno...@castlefrankenstein.org>
AnimalMagic <Anima...@petersbackyard.org>
Archimedes' Lever <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org>
AtTheEndofMyRope <AtTheEnd...@AtTheEndofMyRope.org>
AwlSome Auger <AwlSom...@BuyOneGetOneFree.org>
Bart! <B@rt_The_Sheriff_Is_A_Nig**!.org>
BigBalls <BiggestB...@thebigbarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
BillyPilgrim <BillyP...@thebigbarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
Bungalow Bill <Bugal...@AbbeyRoad.UKCOM>
Capt. Cave Man <ItIsSoEasyAC...@upyers.org>
CellShocked <cells...@thecellvalueattheendofthespreadsheet.org>
ChairmanOfTheBored <RUB...@crackasmile.org>
Chieftain of the Carpet Crawlers
<thesli...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
Corbomite Carrie <Corb...@maneuver.org>
DarkMatter <DarkM...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
DarkSucker <DarkS...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
Do I really need to say? <ra...@thescree.org>
Dorothy with the Red Shoes on <Dor...@notinkansas.org>
Dr. Heywood R. Floyd <Hey...@thebarattheendofthemonolith.org>
FatBytestard <FatByt...@somewheronyourharddrive.org>
FunkyPunk FieldEffectTrollsistor <FunkShun...@yermomma.org>
FunkyPunk FieldEffectTrollsistor <FunkShu...@yermomma.org>
George Orr <Gerg...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement
<GoldIntermetall...@youdontknowjack.org>
Hattori Hanzo <Outint...@billsbackyard.org>
Herbert John \Jackie\" Gleason" <BufordT...@Texarkanacops.gov>
HiggsField <higgd...@whutthableapduyoukno.org>
IAmTheSlime <TheSlimeFr...@oozingacrossyourlivingroomfloor.org>
ItsASecretDummy <secreta...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
Jupiter Jaq <Jupit...@BuyOneGetOneFree.org>
Kai <k...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
LargeMarge <Large...@thetentwoposition.org>
life imitates life <past...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
lurch <lu...@yourangcousinitslibrary.org>
MadManMoon <TheWholePl...@hereandnow.org>
MakeNoAttemptToAdjustYourSet <DoNotAttemptT...@anytime.org>
Massiv...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org
<Massiv...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
MeowSayTongue <MeowSa...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
Mr.Eko <ekoint...@lostisland.org>
Mr. Haney <mrh...@thebarattheendofthefarmroad.org>
Mycelium <myceli...@underyourshrooms.org>
Mycelium <myce...@thematrixattheendofthemushroomstem.org>
Neanderthal <da...@gottafindawomanrighton.org>
OutsideObserver <Stand And Del...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
Pieyed Piper <pieye...@thebongshopattheendoftheuniverse.org>
Phat Bytestard <PhatBy...@getinmahharddrive.org>
RoyLFuchs <RoyL...@urfargingicehole.org>
scorpius
<scor...@thewormholethatemptiesontheothersideoftheuniverse.org>
SkyPilot <some...@theedgeofspace.org>
SomeKindOfWonderful
<SomeKindO...@allthegirlsintheworldbeware.org>
Son of a Sea Cook <NotaBr...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
SoothSayer <SayS...@TheMonastery.org>
Spurious Response <Spurious...@cleansignal.org>
StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt <Zarat...@thusspoke.org>
Sum Ting Wong <SumTi...@thebarattheendoftheVenusianLightnigBolt.org>
Sum Ting Wong
<SumTi...@thebarattheendoftheVenusianLightnigBoltmonolith.org>
SuspendedInGaffa <suspende...@kateshouse.org>
The Great Attractor
<Sup...@ssiveBlackHoleAtTheCenterOfTheMilkyWayGalaxy.org>
TheGlimmerMan <justag...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
TheJoker <Leonardoofthe...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
The Keeper of the Key to The Locks
<TheL...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
TheKraken <ReachUpandSuckYo...@yup.org>
The Last Mimsy <mi...@TheOtherSideoftheLookingGlass.org>
TheQuickBrownFox <thequick...@overthelazydog.org>
The Loner <TheL...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
TralfamadoranJetPilot <BillyP...@thebigbarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
TutAm...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org
<TutAm...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
UltimatePatriot <Ultimat...@thebestcountry.org>
UpGrade <UpG...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
UpYerNose <UpYe...@witarubbahose.org>
ValleyGirl <LuvYe...@LikeIWouldGiveIt.Comeon>
VioletaPachydermata <PurpleE...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
WallyWallWhackr <wallywa...@thematrixattheendofthemushroomstem.org>
100WattDarkSucker <100WattD...@thebigbarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
Michael A. Terrell
krw wrote:
>
> On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:50:28 -0800, Archimedes' Lever
> <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 18:25:30 -0800, "Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >>"James Sweet" <james...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:hhr70r$nqb$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>> Well when you know what fuse/breaker each is on, then you know which
> >>> phase each is on just by looking at the panel.
> >>
> >>OK, I made a couple of pics of the breaker panel and I hope you can view
> >>them on the following links.
> >>
> >>These are the breakers:
> >>
> >><http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfMmR4ZjVqNWo2&hl=en>
> >>
> >
> > The color coding tells me that one side is one phase, and the other is
> >the other phase.
Then a three phase panel would have three rows of breakers? What a
dumb ass!
>
> You mean the blue 15A double-breakers and the red 20A double-breakers,
> AlwaysWrong? Wrong again, as always. What a dufus.
>
> > I am guessing due to never having seen such a configuration, but I am
> >betting that the entire left side is one phase, and the entire right side
> >is the other phase.
Too bad that you didn't bet your sorry life. We would be rid of you
and your always wrong answers.
> What an ignorant ass, you are, AlwaysWrong. The oven and the drier
> are going to work *real* well on zero volts. No 240V circuits could
> be used in the box if you were right. As always, you're wrong.
>
Rich.
We were talking about outlet circuits, and as you can see above I wrote,
"Not if the breakers go to a 3-wire". I specified breakerS and 3-wire. What
other conclusion would or could anyone draw from that?
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
When engineering became nothing more than contract management, the fun was
over.
--
Paul Hovnanian pa...@hovnanian.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.
Cameo
> When engineering became nothing more than contract management, the fun
> was
> over.
Though I was referring to the fun on b....general ng, but now I seem to
remember a sendoff we gave you on that group a few years before I left
there.
Cameo
> Nice pics - "a picture is worth a thousand words" certainly applies.
Thanks, I try ...
> I agree with Rich.
>
> An electrician (or other competent person) could swap a couple breaker
> connections so "kitchen/..." is on the same leg as "foyer". [I would
> not use "phase" for buses in a single phase panel.]
>
> I would add that "Foyer" in all probability should be a 15A (or small
> possibility a 20A) breaker. If it supplies 'ordinary' outlets you
> should really change it - 30A is a fire hazard.
>
> What you have is a "split bus" panel which is relatively unusual. It
> is OK but a new service panel would have a single service disconnect
> at the top. You have 3, and could have up to 6.
I'm sure you're right about that. By the way, my PC is in a study just
off the foyer, so that's why it's on the same circuit. I'm going to find
out what else might be on it that justified the 30A breaker.
What I still don't get is why all my X-10 controls work in the house.
They are all on different circuits and phases.
krw
wrote:
You have enough stray capacitance between the legs to bridge the
signal without the X-10 bridge. This is often the case but stray
capacitance can also stop the bridge from working. X-10 is a really
crappy setup.
krw
<OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
Oh, the red and blue color coded 240V breakers? ...and the double
breakers crossing over from the left to the right sides? DimBulb,
you're such a stupid shit.
> I also said that I was unfamiliar with it and that I was making an
>assumption.
A *obviously* wrong one as always, AlwaysWrong. What a putz.
krw
Obviously it was for you, DimBulb. You thought red and blue color
codes for the opposite legs. What a dufus!
Archimedes' Lever
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Too bad that you didn't bet your sorry life. We would be rid of you
>and your always wrong answers.
Not by your hand, you pussified fucking total retard.
Archimedes' Lever
I think you did a fine job of describing THAT type of branch circuit,
which DOES exist.
Cameo
> You have enough stray capacitance between the legs to bridge the
> signal without the X-10 bridge. This is often the case but stray
> capacitance can also stop the bridge from working. X-10 is a really
> crappy setup.
My only excuse is that it's been there for about 20 years and has been
working more or less satisfactorily. But now I am kinda' prisoner of it
too, because the control software is DOS based and the controller uses
the serial port directly. So I have to keep a DOS partition on my PC
till I sell my house. Hopefully in a couple of years.
krw
wrote:
You could upgrade the software and/or your controller. They're cheap
now.
Cameo
news:hd65k5tsrk6kudm17...@4ax.com...
> You could upgrade the software and/or your controller. They're cheap
> now.
For the 2-3 years I still plan to own this house is not worth to me.
Cameo
news:2d73$4b421008$cde8d549$88...@DIALUPUSA.NET...
> I would add that "Foyer" in all probability should be a 15A (or small
> possibility a 20A) breaker. If it supplies 'ordinary' outlets you
> should really change it - 30A is a fire hazard.
Bud, I checked again what else is on the 30A Foyer circuit and it looks
like there are some outside GFP sockets also on the same circuit. As
those sockets are used to power such things as electric lawn mower and
various power tools, perhaps that justified the higher breaker rating. I
assume the wires are also heavier gage there.
Michael A. Terrell
"Rich." wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > You didn't state that you were running two 120 volt circuits with a
> > common neutral, so do try moving the goalposts.
>
> We were talking about outlet circuits, and as you can see above I wrote,
> "Not if the breakers go to a 3-wire". I specified breakerS and 3-wire. What
> other conclusion would or could anyone draw from that?
An air conditioner, dryer or range with a combination of 120 & 240
volt loads. I can't remember exactly the last time I saw what you are
talking about. Probably sometime in the '60s.
Like I said, be specific. This is a world wide group with people
using different electrical systems and having different levels of
training.
James Sweet
Sometimes it just works, it depends on a lot of factors. As someone else
said, it can also be coupled through a 240V load because those span both
sides.
James Sweet
Well they are *supposed* to work that way afterall, it's just common to
have issues, especially in modern homes with so many sources of
electrical noise as well as filters in power supplies that can attenuate
the signal. The two sides are coupled by the distribution transformer
afterall which in many cases is only a few tens of feet from the house.
When I was a teenager my friend and I discovered that my X10 remote
would operate some of the lights on and in his neighbor's house. We just
clicked the dial through each frequency pressing the all lights on
button until something came on. Poor neighbors finally disconnected it.
bud--
Ordinary devices, like receptacles, are only allowed on a 20A circuit
max. The equipment you plug-in, like your lawn mower, is only intended
to be plugged into a 20A circuit max. High probability the wire is 15A
(#14), small probability it is 20A (#20), about zero probabilty it is
30A (#10). Even if it is 30A wire, the limitations above apply.
The 30A breaker is a fire hazard.
--
bud--
Cameo
> Well they are *supposed* to work that way afterall, it's just common
> to have issues, especially in modern homes with so many sources of
> electrical noise as well as filters in power supplies that can
> attenuate the signal. The two sides are coupled by the distribution
> transformer afterall which in many cases is only a few tens of feet
> from the house.
Browsing through the internet I discovered something that indicates that
I don't even need to worry about cross-phase functionality of HomePlug
devices if they are the newer AV 200 Mbps variety. There is this FAQ
item on in the following link:
Question:In my house are three separate phases. Can HomePlug AV 200Mbps
EthernetAdapter connect one phase to another?Answer:Yes, it can. Phase
coupling operates without an installation of a phase coupler whileusing
the HomePlug AV 200Mbps Ethernet Adapter. You also can establish
yournetwork connections via two or three phasesQuestion:In my house are
three separate phases. Can HomePlug AV 200Mbps EthernetAdapter connect
one phase to another?Answer:Yes, it can. Phase coupling operates without
an installation of a phase coupler whileusing the HomePlug AV 200Mbps
Ethernet Adapter. You also can establish yournetwork connections via two
or three phasesQuestion:
In my house there are three separate phases. Can HomePlug AV 200Mbps
Ethernet Adapter connect one phase to another?
Answer:
Yes, it can. Phase coupling operates without an installation of a phase
coupler while using the HomePlug AV 200Mbps Ethernet Adapter. You also
can establish your network connections via two or three phases.
The following white paper explains the reason:
<http://www.atheros.com/pt/plc/downloads/whitepaper_PLCCrossphase.pdf>
What do you think?
> When I was a teenager my friend and I discovered that my X10 remote
> would operate some of the lights on and in his neighbor's house. We
> just clicked the dial through each frequency pressing the all lights
> on button until something came on. Poor neighbors finally disconnected
> it.
Yes, but X-10 remote controls are radio transmitters, so with the chance
of using the same house code by neighbors, it's relatively easy to
control their lights. X-10 does not use signal encryption.
Rich.
An A/C, dryer, or any other 240 volt device/appliance would use a single
2-pole breaker, it would not use breakerS. For Christ's sake be man enough
to say you mis-read what was written, or your brain wasn't operating at 100%
that day, and knock of this trying to justify what you wrote crap. For the
record, 3-wire homeruns to a panel to feed two circuits are very much used
still today and are not indicative of 1960s wiring.
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
That was a blast. But I think they've shut it down. Or at least scared
people off the internal news servers.
Stupid move. At one point we told management that leaving an internal
discussion system would be smarter than pulling the plug and pushing it
onto public servers. I'm seeing quite a bit of talk (albeit anonymous) on a
few public systems about internal goings-on. Including some really
intriguing talk about the 787 problems that would probably make management
crap.
Michael A. Terrell
So, you've never seen were some scab used a pair of breakers for a
repair to keep up the number of jobs per day, or when 'Mr. Fixit' didn't
want to buy a two pole breaker when he already had a spare single pole?
Both knew that there would be no inspection of their crappy work, and
things would work long enough to get paid, or flip a crappy rehab.
What a sheltered life you must lead. Some of the things I find would
cause you to blow out your brains. I was called in to help troubleshoot
a home with multiple intermittents a few weeks ago. It had multiple
intermittent neutrals, and a piece of 12-2 W/G used to tie the old
wiring into the newer part. They ran two 120 V 20A circuits and used the
16 gauge ground wire for neutral, and both supply lines were on the same
phase. It was no wonder that 16 gauge wire was burnt. BTW, the two
circuits were on separate breakers, and the white wire had no phase
tape.
As far as " For the record, 3-wire homeruns to a panel to feed two
circuits are very much used still today and are not indicative of 1960s
wiring.", I never liked that method and don't remember ever using it.
It was considered a cheap trick used by 'fly by night' companies.
reqluq
"Archimedes' Lever" <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote in message
> On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 13:54:03 -0600, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
>>
>>You are a liar as well as being always wrong, AlwaysWrong. Christian,
>>my ass.
>
>
> Sorry, but it is not Christian to "Christian your ass".
Ah ha ha ha ha
req
reqluq
"Cameo" <ca...@cameo.invalid> wrote in message
news:hhqtg1$914$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> "Archimedes' Lever" <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote in message
>>
>> Always works if the network devices comply with the spec. Yes, there is
>> one.
>>
>> You are always an idiot.
>
> Oh come on guys, I didn't post my question to start a name calling thread.
> Can't we just get along?
What do you think? ah hah ha
bud--
>
> For the record, 3-wire homeruns to a panel to feed two
> circuits are very much used still today and are not indicative of 1960s
> wiring.
I like them and they certainly have been common in the past. For example
I can think of a hospital where substantially all the 120V circuits to
patient rooms started as 4-wire 3-phase multiwire branch circuits. Other
circuits were also mostly multiwire. But the 2008 NEC requires a
"simultaneously disconnect" for multiwire branch circuits. That does not
have to be a multipole breaker - it can be single breakers with a
(listed) handle tie. It would make multiwires in the hospital impractical.
AFCIs have probably eliminated most multiwire branch circuits in houses
since you can't have a common neutral unless the AFCI is 2-pole. You may
be able to get a 2-pole AFCI, but they probably cost far more.
--
bud--
Tom Horne
> "James Sweet" <jamesrsw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:hhr70r$nqb$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> > Well when you know what fuse/breaker each is on, then you know which
> > phase each is on just by looking at the panel.
>
> OK, I made a couple of pics of the breaker panel and I hope you can view
> them on the following links.
>
> These are the breakers:
>
>
> The circuit breakers I am interested in are the blue ones on the left
> and the one immediately above them, labelled "Foyer, etc." For some
> reason it's 30A, while the blue ones below are 15A. I'd like to be sure
> that the "Foyer" breaker is on the same phase as the 2nd from the
> bottom, labelled "Kitch/Fam Rm Lights." I'd rather not call en expensive
> electrician to install a bridge capacitor or whatever.
>
> The following link shows some info about the breaker panel and it's
> pasted inside of the panel door:
>
>
> I hope it can help you experts to answer my original question so I don't
> end up with a useless HomePlug kit.
The presence of that thirty ampere single pole breaker in your panel
is a real concern. It is a pretty strong clue that the circuit it
serves is not properly protected. If that circuit serves regular
lighting and receptacle outlets then that breaker is the wrong
ampacity and needs to be changed out to match the gauge of wire used
in the circuit.
--
Tom Horne
Proteus IIV
>
> - Show quoted text -
THAT IS NOT WHAT HE IS ASKING YOU IDIOT
GO MAKE YOUR ASSUMPTIONS ELSEWHERE HOSER
I AM PROTEUS