Questions on series versus parallel outlets in garage/shop
stryped
think I wired all my garage outlets in "series". The first outlet is a
GFCI, wires from panel go in the "line" side and all the other outlets
in the garage are regular outlets on the "load" side. I think this is
correct for keeping all outlets as required GFCI protected.
What I am wondering is the way I connected the rest were white and
black wires were on the appropriate screws on the outlets. I have not
pigtails other than the ground. I guess what I am getting at and
asking is don’t most people wire outlets in "parallel" using a pigtail
also on the black wire so that if one outlet goes out, the others stay
on?
Is it so bad to have them wired in series as I have them?
Also, I am not to the point of wiring outlets for lights in the
ceiling yet. Should they be wired in series or parallel?
Thanks for all your help!
Rich.
have only a 2-wire coming in and a 2-wire going back out. In such a case the
receptacle is designed to accommodate all 4 of the wires.
"stryped" <stry...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d813d0dc-6e8a-4033...@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
I have been learning a lot and realized I may have done a bad thing. I
think I wired all my garage outlets in "series". The first outlet is a
GFCI, wires from panel go in the "line" side and all the other outlets
in the garage are regular outlets on the "load" side. I think this is
correct for keeping all outlets as required GFCI protected.
What I am wondering is the way I connected the rest were white and
black wires were on the appropriate screws on the outlets. I have not
pigtails other than the ground. I guess what I am getting at and
asking is don�t most people wire outlets in "parallel" using a pigtail
stryped
> You did wire the outlets in parallel. Pigtailing isn't necessary when you
> have only a 2-wire coming in and a 2-wire going back out. In such a case the
> receptacle is designed to accommodate all 4 of the wires.
>
>
> news:d813d0dc-6e8a-4033...@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> I have been learning a lot and realized I may have done a bad thing. I
> think I wired all my garage outlets in "series". The first outlet is a
> GFCI, wires from panel go in the "line" side and all the other outlets
> in the garage are regular outlets on the "load" side. I think this is
> correct for keeping all outlets as required GFCI protected.
>
> What I am wondering is the way I connected the rest were white and
> black wires were on the appropriate screws on the outlets. I have not
> pigtails other than the ground. I guess what I am getting at and
> also on the black wire so that if one outlet goes out, the others stay
> on?
>
> Is it so bad to have them wired in series as I have them?
>
> Also, I am not to the point of wiring outlets for lights in the
> ceiling yet. Should they be wired in series or parallel?
>
> Thanks for all your help!
That makes me feel better. I have 2 wires (black and white) going in
on one wire and a new wire with 1 black and 1 white going to the next
outlet. I think the snipet I read online was a little confusing.
Don Kelly
On Aug 26, 8:05 am, "Rich." <rc...@XXcomcast.net> wrote:
> You did wire the outlets in parallel. Pigtailing isn't necessary when you
> have only a 2-wire coming in and a 2-wire going back out. In such a case
> the
> receptacle is designed to accommodate all 4 of the wires.
>
> "stryped" <stryp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d813d0dc-6e8a-4033...@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> I have been learning a lot and realized I may have done a bad thing. I
> think I wired all my garage outlets in "series". The first outlet is a
> GFCI, wires from panel go in the "line" side and all the other outlets
> in the garage are regular outlets on the "load" side. I think this is
> correct for keeping all outlets as required GFCI protected.
>
> What I am wondering is the way I connected the rest were white and
> black wires were on the appropriate screws on the outlets. I have not
> pigtails other than the ground. I guess what I am getting at and
> also on the black wire so that if one outlet goes out, the others stay
> on?
>
> Is it so bad to have them wired in series as I have them?
>
> Also, I am not to the point of wiring outlets for lights in the
> ceiling yet. Should they be wired in series or parallel?
>
> Thanks for all your help!
That makes me feel better. I have 2 wires (black and white) going in
on one wire and a new wire with 1 black and 1 white going to the next
outlet. I think the snipet I read online was a little confusing.
------------------
Should you be doing any wiring at all? Your insurance broker and widow
won't be happy
Until you learn more, don't try it.. --
Don Kelly
dh...@shawcross.ca
remove the x to reply
James Sweet
> I have been learning a lot and realized I may have done a bad thing. I
> think I wired all my garage outlets in "series". The first outlet is a
> GFCI, wires from panel go in the "line" side and all the other outlets
> in the garage are regular outlets on the "load" side. I think this is
> correct for keeping all outlets as required GFCI protected.
>
> What I am wondering is the way I connected the rest were white and
> black wires were on the appropriate screws on the outlets. I have not
> pigtails other than the ground. I guess what I am getting at and
> also on the black wire so that if one outlet goes out, the others stay
> on?
>
> Is it so bad to have them wired in series as I have them?
>
> Also, I am not to the point of wiring outlets for lights in the
> ceiling yet. Should they be wired in series or parallel?
>
> Thanks for all your help!
>
They're in parallel either way, electrically.
Most houses are wired using the passthrough terminals on the receptacle
to feed the next one down the line. Pigtails are arguably superior, and
I would recommend them for circuits likely to carry high currents. The
only time I have ever found them used in a house is one that was
previously owned by a commercial electrician.
James Sweet
> On Aug 26, 8:05 am, "Rich." <rc...@XXcomcast.net> wrote:
>> You did wire the outlets in parallel. Pigtailing isn't necessary when you
>> have only a 2-wire coming in and a 2-wire going back out. In such a case the
>> receptacle is designed to accommodate all 4 of the wires.
>>
>> "stryped" <stryp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:d813d0dc-6e8a-4033...@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>> I have been learning a lot and realized I may have done a bad thing. I
>> think I wired all my garage outlets in "series". The first outlet is a
>> GFCI, wires from panel go in the "line" side and all the other outlets
>> in the garage are regular outlets on the "load" side. I think this is
>> correct for keeping all outlets as required GFCI protected.
>>
>> What I am wondering is the way I connected the rest were white and
>> black wires were on the appropriate screws on the outlets. I have not
>> pigtails other than the ground. I guess what I am getting at and
>> also on the black wire so that if one outlet goes out, the others stay
>> on?
>>
>> Is it so bad to have them wired in series as I have them?
>>
>> Also, I am not to the point of wiring outlets for lights in the
>> ceiling yet. Should they be wired in series or parallel?
>>
>> Thanks for all your help!
>
> That makes me feel better. I have 2 wires (black and white) going in
> on one wire and a new wire with 1 black and 1 white going to the next
> outlet. I think the snipet I read online was a little confusing.
Get a book on the subject that has illustrations, this isn't something
to be doing if you are not *certain* that you are doing it safely. I
like the 'For Pros By Pros" series personally, the one on electrical is
a great reference, lots of pictures and tricks of the trade.
krw
<james...@gmail.com> wrote:
>stryped wrote:
>> I have been learning a lot and realized I may have done a bad thing. I
>> think I wired all my garage outlets in "series". The first outlet is a
>> GFCI, wires from panel go in the "line" side and all the other outlets
>> in the garage are regular outlets on the "load" side. I think this is
>> correct for keeping all outlets as required GFCI protected.
>>
>> What I am wondering is the way I connected the rest were white and
>> black wires were on the appropriate screws on the outlets. I have not
>> pigtails other than the ground. I guess what I am getting at and
>> asking is don�t most people wire outlets in "parallel" using a pigtail
>> also on the black wire so that if one outlet goes out, the others stay
>> on?
>>
>> Is it so bad to have them wired in series as I have them?
>>
>> Also, I am not to the point of wiring outlets for lights in the
>> ceiling yet. Should they be wired in series or parallel?
>>
>> Thanks for all your help!
>>
>
>
>
>They're in parallel either way, electrically.
>
>Most houses are wired using the passthrough terminals on the receptacle
>to feed the next one down the line. Pigtails are arguably superior, and
>I would recommend them for circuits likely to carry high currents. The
>only time I have ever found them used in a house is one that was
>previously owned by a commercial electrician.
When I built my garage in NY, the inspector insisted on it for
neutrals and grounds. Pass-thru was allowed, though discouraged, for
hots. Forget back-stabs, though.
stryped
>
> - Show quoted text -
I am using 12 gueage wire so no "back stabs" if you mean the spring
connections on the back. I do have a book with illistrations I am
using and it showed what I am doing, one wire on one side of the
outlet, wire to the next outlet on the other side. I was reading on
the net another article and it showed the "pigtails" someone is
referign to that got me confused.
As far as if high current will be used in theis garage it is possible
although would be for a short time period. I have a 110 30 gallon
compressor and a chop saw that probably use alot of juice but will be
run intermittantly.
Is the way I am wiring going to be ok for such loads?
Bill
book on the subject, read it, and learn how to do it right. Then buy the
right tools for the job.
Buy a book on wiring! At the link below, click on electrical, then wiring.
"stryped" wrote in message
bud--
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:01:11 -0700, James Sweet
> <james...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> stryped wrote:
>>> I have been learning a lot and realized I may have done a bad thing. I
>>> think I wired all my garage outlets in "series". The first outlet is a
>>> GFCI, wires from panel go in the "line" side and all the other outlets
>>> in the garage are regular outlets on the "load" side. I think this is
>>> correct for keeping all outlets as required GFCI protected.
>>>
>>> What I am wondering is the way I connected the rest were white and
>>> black wires were on the appropriate screws on the outlets. I have not
>>> pigtails other than the ground. I guess what I am getting at and
>>> also on the black wire so that if one outlet goes out, the others stay
>>> on?
>>>
>>> Is it so bad to have them wired in series as I have them?
>>>
>>> Also, I am not to the point of wiring outlets for lights in the
>>> ceiling yet. Should they be wired in series or parallel?
>>>
>>> Thanks for all your help!
>>>
>>
>>
>> They're in parallel either way, electrically.
>>
>> Most houses are wired using the passthrough terminals on the receptacle
>> to feed the next one down the line. Pigtails are arguably superior, and
>> I would recommend them for circuits likely to carry high currents. The
>> only time I have ever found them used in a house is one that was
>> previously owned by a commercial electrician.
>
> When I built my garage in NY, the inspector insisted on it for
> neutrals and grounds. Pass-thru was allowed, though discouraged, for
> hots. Forget back-stabs, though.
I agree on not using backstabs. Fortunately they don't work with #12
wire anymore. (Now if they would just change it so they only worked with
#20 or smaller....)
The ground connection has only one screw so pigtailing is necessary
(very likely required by the NEC too - I am too lazy to look).
Pigtailing is required for neutrals of a multiwire branch circuit (2
circuits with 1 neutral). Else if you worked hot and broke the neutral
the voltage downstream on the 2 circuits could float, with less than
desirable results. For a 2 wire circuit the NEC doesn't care. Multiwire
might be what you had, or might be what the inspector remembered.
--
bud--
krw
wrote:
Correct. The screw/nut lugs on the back of the better grade outlets
are fine though.
>I do have a book with illistrations I am
>using and it showed what I am doing, one wire on one side of the
>outlet, wire to the next outlet on the other side. I was reading on
>the net another article and it showed the "pigtails" someone is
>referign to that got me confused.
Pigtails are preferred, though not always required (the inspector
always has the last say) on neutrals.
>As far as if high current will be used in theis garage it is possible
>although would be for a short time period. I have a 110 30 gallon
>compressor and a chop saw that probably use alot of juice but will be
>run intermittantly.
The chop saw isn't a biggie. I'd put the compressor on its own
circuit. It may operate when you're using other equipment. I also
alternated outlets (one every four feet) on opposite 240 legs. The
idea was that I could simultaneously run a shop vac on one circuit
with a table saw or jointer on the other. The other thing was the
lights on a separate circuit. If a breaker tripped I wouldn't be
completely in the dark. ;-)
>Is the way I am wiring going to be ok for such loads?
It is as far as I'm concerned. If an inspection is required, it is
always a good idea to ask the inspector what he wants to see. For the
most part they're reasonable people and appreciate it when others
appreciate them.
krw
wrote:
>krw wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:01:11 -0700, James Sweet
>> <james...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> stryped wrote:
>>>> I have been learning a lot and realized I may have done a bad thing. I
>>>> think I wired all my garage outlets in "series". The first outlet is a
>>>> GFCI, wires from panel go in the "line" side and all the other outlets
>>>> in the garage are regular outlets on the "load" side. I think this is
>>>> correct for keeping all outlets as required GFCI protected.
>>>>
>>>> What I am wondering is the way I connected the rest were white and
>>>> black wires were on the appropriate screws on the outlets. I have not
>>>> pigtails other than the ground. I guess what I am getting at and
>>>> asking is don�t most people wire outlets in "parallel" using a pigtail
>>>> also on the black wire so that if one outlet goes out, the others stay
>>>> on?
>>>>
>>>> Is it so bad to have them wired in series as I have them?
>>>>
>>>> Also, I am not to the point of wiring outlets for lights in the
>>>> ceiling yet. Should they be wired in series or parallel?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for all your help!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> They're in parallel either way, electrically.
>>>
>>> Most houses are wired using the passthrough terminals on the receptacle
>>> to feed the next one down the line. Pigtails are arguably superior, and
>>> I would recommend them for circuits likely to carry high currents. The
>>> only time I have ever found them used in a house is one that was
>>> previously owned by a commercial electrician.
>>
>> When I built my garage in NY, the inspector insisted on it for
>> neutrals and grounds. Pass-thru was allowed, though discouraged, for
>> hots. Forget back-stabs, though.
>
>I agree on not using backstabs. Fortunately they don't work with #12
>wire anymore. (Now if they would just change it so they only worked with
>#20 or smaller....)
Just ban them.
>The ground connection has only one screw so pigtailing is necessary
>(very likely required by the NEC too - I am too lazy to look).
I'm sure you're right.
>Pigtailing is required for neutrals of a multiwire branch circuit (2
>circuits with 1 neutral). Else if you worked hot and broke the neutral
>the voltage downstream on the 2 circuits could float, with less than
>desirable results. For a 2 wire circuit the NEC doesn't care. Multiwire
>might be what you had, or might be what the inspector remembered.
A broken neutral will float those down stream. The idea is that a
pigtail is less likely to fail than a screw loosen. It wasn't code
when I did it, but that's what the inspector wanted anyway. He's the
boss.
bud--
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:13:13 -0500, bud-- <remove....@isp.com>
> wrote:
>
>> krw wrote:
>>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:01:11 -0700, James Sweet
>>> <james...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> stryped wrote:
>>>>> I have been learning a lot and realized I may have done a bad thing. I
>>>>> think I wired all my garage outlets in "series". The first outlet is a
>>>>> GFCI, wires from panel go in the "line" side and all the other outlets
>>>>> in the garage are regular outlets on the "load" side. I think this is
>>>>> correct for keeping all outlets as required GFCI protected.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I am wondering is the way I connected the rest were white and
>>>>> black wires were on the appropriate screws on the outlets. I have not
>>>>> pigtails other than the ground. I guess what I am getting at and
>>>>> also on the black wire so that if one outlet goes out, the others stay
>>>>> on?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it so bad to have them wired in series as I have them?
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, I am not to the point of wiring outlets for lights in the
>>>>> ceiling yet. Should they be wired in series or parallel?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for all your help!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They're in parallel either way, electrically.
>>>>
>>>> Most houses are wired using the passthrough terminals on the receptacle
>>>> to feed the next one down the line. Pigtails are arguably superior, and
>>>> I would recommend them for circuits likely to carry high currents. The
>>>> only time I have ever found them used in a house is one that was
>>>> previously owned by a commercial electrician.
>>> When I built my garage in NY, the inspector insisted on it for
>>> neutrals and grounds. Pass-thru was allowed, though discouraged, for
>>> hots. Forget back-stabs, though.
>> I agree on not using backstabs. Fortunately they don't work with #12
>> wire anymore. (Now if they would just change it so they only worked with
>> #20 or smaller....)
>
> Just ban them.
Talk to UL.
>> The ground connection has only one screw so pigtailing is necessary
>> (very likely required by the NEC too - I am too lazy to look).
>
> I'm sure you're right.
>
>> Pigtailing is required for neutrals of a multiwire branch circuit (2
>> circuits with 1 neutral). Else if you worked hot and broke the neutral
>> the voltage downstream on the 2 circuits could float, with less than
>> desirable results. For a 2 wire circuit the NEC doesn't care. Multiwire
>> might be what you had, or might be what the inspector remembered.
>
> A broken neutral will float those down stream. The idea is that a
> pigtail is less likely to fail than a screw loosen.
Doesn't need to fail. If the neutral is wired through the outlet you
have to break it when you replace the outlet.
krw
wrote:
>krw wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:13:13 -0500, bud-- <remove....@isp.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> krw wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:01:11 -0700, James Sweet
>>>> <james...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> stryped wrote:
>>>>>> I have been learning a lot and realized I may have done a bad thing. I
>>>>>> think I wired all my garage outlets in "series". The first outlet is a
>>>>>> GFCI, wires from panel go in the "line" side and all the other outlets
>>>>>> in the garage are regular outlets on the "load" side. I think this is
>>>>>> correct for keeping all outlets as required GFCI protected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I am wondering is the way I connected the rest were white and
>>>>>> black wires were on the appropriate screws on the outlets. I have not
>>>>>> pigtails other than the ground. I guess what I am getting at and
>>>>>> asking is don�t most people wire outlets in "parallel" using a pigtail
>>>>>> also on the black wire so that if one outlet goes out, the others stay
>>>>>> on?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it so bad to have them wired in series as I have them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, I am not to the point of wiring outlets for lights in the
>>>>>> ceiling yet. Should they be wired in series or parallel?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for all your help!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They're in parallel either way, electrically.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most houses are wired using the passthrough terminals on the receptacle
>>>>> to feed the next one down the line. Pigtails are arguably superior, and
>>>>> I would recommend them for circuits likely to carry high currents. The
>>>>> only time I have ever found them used in a house is one that was
>>>>> previously owned by a commercial electrician.
>>>> When I built my garage in NY, the inspector insisted on it for
>>>> neutrals and grounds. Pass-thru was allowed, though discouraged, for
>>>> hots. Forget back-stabs, though.
>>> I agree on not using backstabs. Fortunately they don't work with #12
>>> wire anymore. (Now if they would just change it so they only worked with
>>> #20 or smaller....)
>>
>> Just ban them.
>
>Talk to UL.
UL isn't the only testing lab. Woldn't NFPA be the authority?
>>> The ground connection has only one screw so pigtailing is necessary
>>> (very likely required by the NEC too - I am too lazy to look).
>>
>> I'm sure you're right.
>>
>>> Pigtailing is required for neutrals of a multiwire branch circuit (2
>>> circuits with 1 neutral). Else if you worked hot and broke the neutral
>>> the voltage downstream on the 2 circuits could float, with less than
>>> desirable results. For a 2 wire circuit the NEC doesn't care. Multiwire
>>> might be what you had, or might be what the inspector remembered.
>>
>> A broken neutral will float those down stream. The idea is that a
>> pigtail is less likely to fail than a screw loosen.
>
>Doesn't need to fail. If the neutral is wired through the outlet you
>have to break it when you replace the outlet.
At least when you're replacing the outlet you're there. All sorts of
dangers lurk when you're working on the system.
James Sweet
> I agree on not using backstabs. Fortunately they don't work with #12
> wire anymore. (Now if they would just change it so they only worked with
> #20 or smaller....)
>
They ought to just eliminate the damn things altogether. I've seen
multiple near-fires and one actual fire caused by those.
> The ground connection has only one screw so pigtailing is necessary
> (very likely required by the NEC too - I am too lazy to look).
>
> Pigtailing is required for neutrals of a multiwire branch circuit (2
> circuits with 1 neutral). Else if you worked hot and broke the neutral
> the voltage downstream on the 2 circuits could float, with less than
> desirable results. For a 2 wire circuit the NEC doesn't care. Multiwire
> might be what you had, or might be what the inspector remembered.
>
If you're gonna pigtail the neutrals, do it with the hot too. They make
ground pigtails that are a green wire nut with a pigtail attached to it,
nice and convenient.
James Sweet
> It used to be that people who decided to do something themselves would buy a
> book on the subject, read it, and learn how to do it right. Then buy the
> right tools for the job.
>
If only. You should see some of the stuff I've come across, including in
my own house, done by the previous owner.
> Buy a book on wiring! At the link below, click on electrical, then wiring.
>
Agreed. I have this one
http://www.amazon.com/Wiring-House-Pros-Rex-Cauldwell/dp/1561585270/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251527023&sr=8-1
It's rather good, I already had a pretty good idea of what I was doing,
but code and practice changes so it's good to have a reference.
Rich.
"James Sweet" <james...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:h7ahh1$5ii$7...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>> I agree on not using backstabs. Fortunately they don't work with #12 wire
>> anymore. (Now if they would just change it so they only worked with #20
>> or smaller....)
>>
>
> They ought to just eliminate the damn things altogether. I've seen
> multiple near-fires and one actual fire caused by those.
Backstab holes are UL tested and approved, the problem is with the
installer. The wire has to be straight and inserted straight. Every time
I've seen one that failed, it was because the inserted portion of the wire
had a curve to it. I've seen an equal number of failures using the screw
terminal too. Some people stick the wire under half the screw without a loop
and tighten it down. Others wrap the loop the wrong way so that the screw
loosens up as the receptacle was pushed into the box, or wrap it too far so
that the wire doubles back onto itself. I've also seen two (and more) wires
looped under the same screw. The solution isn't to ban the device or the
backstab feature, the solution is to keep incompetent morons from working
with electricity, period!
James Sweet
>
> Backstab holes are UL tested and approved, the problem is with the
> installer. The wire has to be straight and inserted straight. Every time
> I've seen one that failed, it was because the inserted portion of the
> wire had a curve to it. I've seen an equal number of failures using the
> screw terminal too. Some people stick the wire under half the screw
> without a loop and tighten it down. Others wrap the loop the wrong way
> so that the screw loosens up as the receptacle was pushed into the box,
> or wrap it too far so that the wire doubles back onto itself. I've also
> seen two (and more) wires looped under the same screw. The solution
> isn't to ban the device or the backstab feature, the solution is to keep
> incompetent morons from working with electricity, period!
All of the ones I've seen fail were installed by licensed professional
residential electricians. My observation is that they are fine for a
while, but eventually thermal cycles, mechanical stress, humidity, etc
cause the connection to degrade, then it heats up, which causes more
corrosion and eventually weakens the metal and it loses springiness and
arcs or just has so much resistance that it heats up red hot, as
happened in my grandmothers house with the refrigerator running down the
chain. When I replaced all the receptacles in my house, at least one out
of every five of them had a wire pull right out as I was removing it
from the box. The contact area is too small, the connection relies
solely on spring tension, it's just a bad design. IMO the only reason
they're legal at all is because the union guys love the time they save
when building cheap housing developments.
I won't use them, period, and neither will a number of electricians I
know. I won't use the cheap 75 cent receptacles either, another buck or
so will get spec grade stuff that is much better made. Screw clamps or
regular screw terminals provide a far more dependable connection. Lives
depend on this stuff being reliable, really, what's an extra 10 bucks
and 20 minutes per room?
Rich.
>
> depend on this stuff being reliable, really, what's an extra 10 bucks and
> 20 minutes per room?
That can be the difference between winning and not winning a bid. Just last
month a GC that I bid with all the time lost an $185,000 renovation job by
$32. That's a hard pill to swallow, when you have to lay off a couple of
good men because you lose a job like that over $32. I myself learned the
hard way, when you bid you give them what you bid on. If they want more, or
a better grade of material, then it's up to them to pay for it, not us.
James Sweet
So ban the inferior product and then everyone is on level ground. Just
because something is approved and legal does not make it good or safe.
All kinds of stuff was legal in the past that was later outlawed because
of potential safety issues.
I have seen so many problems with these, and I'm not even an electrician
by trade. There's a really good reason spec grade and better receptacles
don't have them.
Don Kelly
"James Sweet" <james...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:h7clm5$386$3...@news.eternal-september.org...
On the other hand:
This is less that 0.02% difference in quotes so it is apparently not related
to the quality of the materials used but possibly the coin flip between two
suppliers which offer equal goods. If the difference was 10% then the
complaint has a more solid basis. There is no evidence that the successful
bidder was offering inferior product or services. There is evidence that
accountants were involved in the decision.
bud--
>
>>
>> Backstab holes are UL tested and approved, the problem is with the
>> installer. The wire has to be straight and inserted straight. Every
>> time I've seen one that failed, it was because the inserted portion of
>> the wire had a curve to it.
Seems like a device should not be that subject to failure. (I am not
convinced that is the only reason they fail.)
>> <....>
> All of the ones I've seen fail were installed by licensed professional
> residential electricians. My observation is that they are fine for a
> while, but eventually thermal cycles, mechanical stress, humidity, etc
> cause the connection to degrade, then it heats up, which causes more
> corrosion and eventually weakens the metal and it loses springiness and
> arcs or just has so much resistance that it heats up red hot, as
> happened in my grandmothers house with the refrigerator running down the
> chain. When I replaced all the receptacles in my house, at least one out
> of every five of them had a wire pull right out as I was removing it
> from the box. The contact area is too small, the connection relies
> solely on spring tension, it's just a bad design.
That is my opinion.
And backstabs are not allowed with #12 wire anymore.
> IMO the only reason
> they're legal at all is because the union guys love the time they save
> when building cheap housing developments.
In theory unions guys should hate them because they take less time. I
suspect it is contractors that love them. If backstabs were not allowed
bids would be equalized with more conscientious electricians and
contractors.
--
bud--
Stuart
Or backhanders ;-)
Twayne
Wow. Please: Either get a basic wiring book, go to the library and read
a bit, or get a pro in to do your work. You just do not have the
background yet to be safely doing things like that. At least get a buddy
who understands it to explain it to you. Do not continue until you know
what you're doing.
Lost of basic wiring site on the 'net, too. Use google to find them.
Proteus IIV
STOP !!
I AM PROTEUS
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
>
> James Sweet wrote:
> >
> >>
[snip]
> And backstabs are not allowed with #12 wire anymore.
>
> > IMO the only reason
> > they're legal at all is because the union guys love the time they save
> > when building cheap housing developments.
>
> In theory unions guys should hate them because they take less time. I
> suspect it is contractors that love them. If backstabs were not allowed
> bids would be equalized with more conscientious electricians and
> contractors.
There's a compromise between screw terminals and (spring terminal) back
stabs.
Some receptacles take a straight stripped wire (like a back stab) but
have an internal clamp held by a screw. No need to bend a loop around a
screw and no problems with a spring losing its temper.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
A mathematician is a machine for converting coffee into theorems.
James Sweet
>
> There's a compromise between screw terminals and (spring terminal) back
> stabs.
>
> Some receptacles take a straight stripped wire (like a back stab) but
> have an internal clamp held by a screw. No need to bend a loop around a
> screw and no problems with a spring losing its temper.
>
Yeah I rather like those, in my experience they work well. It's the
spring loaded ones I hate so much.