EE vs. EET: A Perspective
Arizona
I was pursuing an EET degree. I had one class (Control Systems) left to
graduate with a four year EET degree.
I had very little design, no chemistry, lots of math, more physics than
required for EE.
While attending school part time in the evenings for the EET degree, I
checked on what would be required for me to get a full blown EE degree. The
answer from six schools across the country was three full time years.
I won a scholarship and transferred to a four year school for an EE degree.
Sure enough, I've spent two years now (full time) going to school, with one
left. I have over 160 semester hours accrued.
I have learned so much more in EE program for application in the EE field
than I could have ever dreamed to have learned in EET program.
The difference is there, and it is warranted.
That's my two cents.
Mark J. Duperon
Recently after talking to my EET advisor at my University I decided to
post this message as I know this usually is debated heavily on this
newsgroup. First let me state that I was a EE major but soon after
moved into EET and found it very similiar to EE but more design
oriented versus the theory oriented EE. I think a chart is in order:
EET
--------
less physics and chemistry
(you get basic theory but you don't end
up a chemical engineer)
more design oriented
math is more structed with classes
(some math for an EE major is not really used)
subject matter of EE is spaced apart over all four
years of college vs. the EE courses in the last two
years of most programs
Graduates employed as:
Electrical Engineers/CAD people/and YES EEs some, like
my advisor, even get a MS/Phd in EE after EET and teach....
EE
------
more physics and chemistry
more theory
more math
EE core courses are crammed into two years so
classes have alot of material to cover in less time
than EET
Graduates employed as:
Electrical Engineers/or Graduate Students
Yes, EEs, I was once against EETs, but since I am a junior now in EET
I have to say it is basically EE drawn out over four years. My
University has EET courses and EE courses that use the same books.
One example is while AC/DC circuits may be covered in one semester in
EE, an EET major will get DC one semester and then AC the next,
because of the greater math involved with AC design and analysis. And
all the jobs listed at my University for EET majors are much of the
same ones as EEs. Most are Electrical Engineer (entry level). While
true that most EE jobs are for senior engineering positions, EETs
still are mostly employed as Electrical Engineers. At least in my
part of the US. And yes, EETs can earn a MS EE and teach if they so
desire. Myself, I have little interest in teaching or graduate work,
but as my advisor stated that may change as I get older. I am looking
forward to design. I welcome all flames and comments. I know this
will sure spark debate among users of this newsgroup and I am in no
way bashing EEs. :)
-Mark Duperon
----
http://home.sprintmail.com/~markduperon
Duperon Audio, Exploding Drummer Boy,
Live Bands, Internet Guide to High-End Audio,
DSS Hacking, The Meaning of Life,
Mark's Theories, Electrical/Electronics
Engineering, and other cool stuff!
----
Robert H. Penoyer
>And yes, EETs can earn a MS EE and teach if they so
>desire.
I've contributed to a lot of threads on the same subject before so I
will limit my response to this one comment.
Your statement above is interesting. Many EET curricula are very close
to EE curricula while others are very much "EE lite". For the former,
stepping up to an MSEE could be relatively painless. (MSEE course work
is very challenging. It's truly painless for only a very few.) For the
latter, it's probably extremely difficult or impossible.
Charles Perry
Mark J. Duperon wrote in message
<80vn7i$6n1$1...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
<<snip>>
>
>EET
>--------
>less physics and chemistry
>(you get basic theory but you don't end
>up a chemical engineer)
>more design oriented
>math is more structed with classes
>(some math for an EE major is not really used)
Interesting statement. Particularly from someone who has never worked as an
EE. Much to my dismay (college was several years ago afterall) I have had
to use much, if not all, of the math I learned in my job. The highest level
math that I took was a senior level vector calc class. Mess with magnetic
fields much and you will need that math. I even have to use Laplace and
Fourier transforms on occasion. I will admit, most of my math involves
matrix work with complex numbers. I would have agreed with your statement
during the first year or so of employment, now I know that I was wrong.
>subject matter of EE is spaced apart over all four
>years of college vs. the EE courses in the last two
>years of most programs
Another odd statement. My classes were spread over 4 years.
>Graduates employed as:
>Electrical Engineers/CAD people/and YES EEs some, like
>my advisor, even get a MS/Phd in EE after EET and teach....
I can only speak as to what my company does here. I work for a 20,000
employee (soon to be 30,000 - merger) company with a good percentage of
technical people (20-25%). You can not be an engineer unless you have a
BSEE from an ABET school. Period. Also, you can't even be a technologist
if your degree is not ABET. ABET accredidation is important! Regardless
what your school may say. I hope your school is accredited.
<<snip>>
>Yes, EEs, I was once against EETs, but since I am a junior now in EET
>I have to say it is basically EE drawn out over four years. My
>University has EET courses and EE courses that use the same books.
Not a good comparison as many universities will use the same text book for
both an undergraduate and a graduate course. You certainly would not imply
that this makes both courses equal?
<<snip>>And yes, EETs can earn a MS EE and teach if they so
>desire.
The graduate school I attended required a BSE from an ABET school for
admission to it MSE programs.
Something else you should consider is professional licensing. Most
universities do a bad job at covering this topic (if it is even mentioned).
Most states have changed their licensing rules to dissallow BSEET grads
from being licensed as professional engineers. I know the usual rant, if I
work for a company I wont need it. The same was true for the company I work
for 10 years ago. Now it is required to be promoted above a certain level.
I make no claim as to whether or not I agree with the changes in licensing,
I only know that NSPE (and the IEEE I believe) are pushing hard for states
to require ABET BSEE degrees for licensing.
Now for the flame bait. Have I worked with great technologists? You Bet!
On average are they able to understand the more complex problems? No. Of
course I have also worked with lousy engineers, but on average they are more
capable of analyzing complex problems. Heck, I have one technician that can
work circles around many engineers IN HIS PARTICULAR EXPERTISE. I wouldn't
trade him for two engineers or technologists, but were our departments job
function to change, he would be ill equipped to change.
Charles Perry P.E.
Jeffrey D Spears
I am a junior in an EE program. Frankly, I *miss* all those chemistry
and physics and general math courses! Those chemistry classes have GIRLS
WHO NEED HELP! :-) Nursing students man--NURSING STUDENTS! Gee, there
were BABES in my CalcII course. All one had to do was scribble some greek
looking letters in front of cute little BIOLOGY girls and they found their
TUTOR! Engineering females don't need help--theyr'e just to damned smart
and used to figuring the stuff out themselves. I have to go down to central
campus just to find PYSHC majors to daydream about.
--
Jeffrey D. Spears
University of Michigan
College of Engineering
``Double-E, can't spell gEEk without it!''
-Captain Gerald M. Bloomfield II, USMC
(my brother)
Randy Elliott
{shnip}
>I can only speak as to what my company does here. I work for a 20,000
>employee (soon to be 30,000 - merger) company with a good percentage of
>technical people (20-25%). You can not be an engineer unless you have a
>BSEE from an ABET school. Period. Also, you can't even be a technologist
>if your degree is not ABET. ABET accredidation is important! Regardless
>what your school may say. I hope your school is accredited.
{shnup}
>Something else you should consider is professional licensing. Most
>universities do a bad job at covering this topic (if it is even mentioned).
>Most states have changed their licensing rules to dissallow BSEET grads
>from being licensed as professional engineers. I know the usual rant, if I
>work for a company I wont need it. The same was true for the company I
work
>for 10 years ago. Now it is required to be promoted above a certain level.
>I make no claim as to whether or not I agree with the changes in licensing,
>I only know that NSPE (and the IEEE I believe) are pushing hard for states
>to require ABET BSEE degrees for licensing.
Good points, Charles. I'm a former Technician (Technologist?) that turned
into a non-degreed engineer 15 years ago, and just got my PE this year
before they closed the door on those of my ilk. I'd seen the EET vs EE
debate since working with a BSEET who was a fellow tech on a Tektronix
production line. My initial take was "why spend 4 years in school to be a
tech? I did it in 3 and may do it in 2." Granted, BSEETs seldom end up on
production lines anymore, but many companies still resist hiring a BSEET as
a "real" engineer.
Two years ago, a friend and I decided to get the FE and PE to end the debate
over our non-degreed status. In the process found that the ABET
accreditation was being adopted as the "standard" for 4 years experience
credit for the Oregon PE. Non-ABET EE grads get 3 years experience, ABET
EETs get 2, and Non-ABET EETs and non-degreeds get zippo. This will change
in 2000 to disqualify non-degreeds entirely. Too bad. Their loss.
When I spoke to one of the Engineering Board members about this change to
"only ABET for full experience credit" and "no non-degreeds", he said they
were trying improve the profession by "raising the bar". He quoted that
only 1 out of 7 non-degreeds pass the PE test. I pointed out that it's our
money at risk, so why would they care? Besides, why not make the test
harder? Only 1 out of 3 pass the Electrical PE in Oregon anyway, and 1 out
of 4 nationwide. Since my non-degreed study-buddy and I passed the PE test
at 83% and 90%, respectively, the argument was moot (as well as ludicrous).
The whole issue seems rather elitist. I wonder if its related to Hillary's
"Workforce 2000"?
Regardless, if I had it to do over and had my choice, I'd have gone to an
ABET school and ended the argument there. Since my Dad was paying for my
education, I took the path of quickest solid career and became a Tech,
which fit my mindset at the time. This wasn't a "BAD" choice, it just wasn't
necessarily an optimum one in retrospect.
----------------
Randall Elliott P.E.
The views expressed are not those of GN Nettest
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become "designers".
The EET degrees should be less theory and more application as graduates
usullly become "troubleshooters"
In article <80vn7i$6n1$1...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
markd...@sprintmail.com (Mark J. Duperon) wrote:
>
>
> Recently after talking to my EET advisor at my University I
decided to
> post this message as I know this usually is debated heavily on this
> newsgroup. First let me state that I was a EE major but soon after
> moved into EET and found it very similiar to EE but more design
> oriented versus the theory oriented EE. I think a chart is in order:
>
> EET
> --------
> less physics and chemistry
> (you get basic theory but you don't end
> up a chemical engineer)
> more design oriented
> math is more structed with classes
> (some math for an EE major is not really used)
> subject matter of EE is spaced apart over all four
> years of college vs. the EE courses in the last two
> years of most programs
> Graduates employed as:
> Electrical Engineers/CAD people/and YES EEs some, like
> my advisor, even get a MS/Phd in EE after EET and teach....
>
> EE
> ------
> more physics and chemistry
> more theory
> more math
> EE core courses are crammed into two years so
> classes have alot of material to cover in less time
> than EET
> Graduates employed as:
> Electrical Engineers/or Graduate Students
>
> Yes, EEs, I was once against EETs, but since I am a junior now in EET
> I have to say it is basically EE drawn out over four years. My
> University has EET courses and EE courses that use the same books.
> One example is while AC/DC circuits may be covered in one semester in
> EE, an EET major will get DC one semester and then AC the next,
> because of the greater math involved with AC design and analysis. And
> all the jobs listed at my University for EET majors are much of the
> same ones as EEs. Most are Electrical Engineer (entry level). While
> true that most EE jobs are for senior engineering positions, EETs
> still are mostly employed as Electrical Engineers. At least in my
> part of the US. And yes, EETs can earn a MS EE and teach if they so
> desire. Myself, I have little interest in teaching or graduate work,
> but as my advisor stated that may change as I get older. I am looking
> forward to design. I welcome all flames and comments. I know this
> will sure spark debate among users of this newsgroup and I am in no
> way bashing EEs. :)
>
> -Mark Duperon
>
> ----
> http://home.sprintmail.com/~markduperon
> Duperon Audio, Exploding Drummer Boy,
> Live Bands, Internet Guide to High-End Audio,
> DSS Hacking, The Meaning of Life,
> Mark's Theories, Electrical/Electronics
> Engineering, and other cool stuff!
> ----
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mark J. Duperon
>The EE degree sholud be the more design oriented as graduates usually
>become "designers".
>The EET degrees should be less theory and more application as graduates
>usullly become "troubleshooters"
Hmmm, 95% of the jobs held by EET graduates at my ABET certified
school (both EE and EET gained recertification last year) work as
engineers. Yes as I stated, EEs get first pick at Senior Design
engineer and MSEEs beat both EETs and EEs. :) EET graduates are more
likely to gain position of Electrical Engineer I or II. AS graduates
are most likely to be employed as technician or "troubleshooters".
For an interesting look at EET programs do a web search. My program
closly follows a EE, but some are pretty bad, with courses like
"Usiing a PC". That is too bad as it gives the BSEET engineer a bad
name.
-Mark
ElectricPete
education should be theoretical or hands-on/practical. This two cents is
intended only for the purpose of advising people who are trying to decide
which type of education to pursue. It is definitely not intended for the
purpose of judging the capabilities of a person with a particular level of
education .... there are plenty of people who can accomplish amazing things
regardless of their educational background.
When I was a new EE grad, I lamented the lack of practical hands-on content
of the program I had just completed. It seemed like a lot of pie-in-the-sky
theory and I didn't retain half of it anyway.
12 years later, in a Maintenance engineer role, I have found that there are
lots of folks around who can help me whenever I need hands-on advice. But
they look to me for complex problems that require engineering solutions. I
have had to re-learn a lot of the stuff I learned in college and a lot more.
But there is no doubt in my mind now that a broad theoretical education was
the right the way to go (for me). And chemistry/physics/math were some of
the most important elements since a lot of the problems facing an electrical
engineer are of a mechanical nature.
electricpete