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E-Vehicles Are a FAIL No Matter What Lies Govt/Fanatics Tell Us
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68g.1502
Feb 7, 2024, 5:35:51 PMFeb 7
to
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/06/the-electric-vehicles-farce-has-reached-a-shambolic-new-low/
If the industry wants to survive, it should stop making bad cars
nobody wants to drive. It appears to want subsidies instead
It has been clear for a long time now that electric vehicles
have run up against one of those concrete blocks the automotive
industry uses in crash tests. In spite of huge subsidies over
the years, and a tax regime which continues massively to favour
owners of electric cars over petrol and diesel ones, the motor
industry still struggles to shift its wares.
In a sane world, this would be a signal for manufacturers to
cut back production. Unfortunately, the Government thinks
otherwise, and since 1 January manufacturers have been under
a mandate to make sure that at least 22 percent of the vehicles
they sell are zero emission, a proportion that is due to rise
to 80 percent by 2030. Fail, and they face stiff fines.
. . .
When ideology/fanaticism meet reality, typically both
suffer horrible deaths.
Green fanaticism makes it impossible for governments
and makers to admit that current e-cars just SUCK in
many dimensions. The traditionally left-leaning Greens
have even managed to ignore the SLAVE LABOR and MASS
ENVIRONMENTAL DEGRADATION that goes into making the
batteries (mostly in China).
The range is way too short, the recharge time is much
too long, the batteries go bad - if they don't explode
first - and cost WAY too much. Will NEVER be enough
charging stations either. E-Cars are also becoming
known for shoddy workmanship. Apparently to offset the
price of the batteries they cut back on the rest of
the vehicle ... so you're buying a $50,000 rattle-trap
worse than Detroit cars of the 70s.
Subsidies, subsidies, subsidies ... robbing The People
to pretend e-cars are OK. Ludicrous - and it really
doesn't actually FIX the probs with the vehicles. It
is an unsustainable approach.
There IS a niche for e-cars ... people who mostly exist
in and very near larger urban areas. Some little e-pod
car MAY take care of a lot of needs. However they will
be people's SECOND car, their toy. This has been seen
in Norway/Sweden especially. The dinosaur-fueled car
is the REAL car, for anything requiring range and/or
carrying capacity.
People simply HAVE to stop voting for 'leaders' who
don't GET any of this. A serious disaster looms for
the population otherwise. The Green fanatics will likely
demand Soviet-style travel restrictions next - hold you
prisoner in your little towns. This is not only unbearable
but note that e-trucks will make SUPPLIES hard to get
(and a LOT more expensive) in your little prison-towns
because e-trucks are just bigger e-cars.
There ARE a number of very fuel-efficient dinosaur
cars to be had. Some are rattle-traps but some are
perfectly OK, just "compact" and won't do 0-60
(0-100 EU) in zero-point-three milliseconds. Honda
sells good micro-vans, Kia sells good micro-suvs.
Toyota, well, aside from the lethal air-bags ...
Alas the USA seems incapable of building this size
and quality of vehicle. Not sure why, but it has
consistently failed. 4000 pound V-10 crew-cab
trucks, yes. There ARE niches for those, but in
the longer picture they're kind of a Bad Idea
outside said niche.
Tech/technique for producing alcohols from organic
waste is also improving. If you can get the real
cost of "E-50" (some other alcohols might actually
be better for cars) to decent levels and not waste
FOOD creating the alcohol ... well, now you've
gone about 50% "renewable", which is pretty damned
good. Fanatics won't like sanity however - so DON'T
ELECT THEM ANYMORE.
SOMEday, maybe, they'll come up with decent batteries.
The chemistry and physics will only give you JUST so
much however. The engineering challenges have also
sunk many initially-touted lithium replacements.
Hmm ... there are things called "vanadium flow batteries"
for solar home/grid apps - don't explode, charge super-fast,
much longer life than LiPo, They don't hold quite as much
power per pound but there is some hope. This is the best
potential replacement I've heard of, and I go through the
sci/tech/nerd news all the time. Just gotta fit 'em into
a vehicle ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery
https://interestingengineering.com/energy/chinese-scientists-develop-a-breakthrough-vanadium-flow-battery-stack
If the industry wants to survive, it should stop making bad cars
nobody wants to drive. It appears to want subsidies instead
It has been clear for a long time now that electric vehicles
have run up against one of those concrete blocks the automotive
industry uses in crash tests. In spite of huge subsidies over
the years, and a tax regime which continues massively to favour
owners of electric cars over petrol and diesel ones, the motor
industry still struggles to shift its wares.
In a sane world, this would be a signal for manufacturers to
cut back production. Unfortunately, the Government thinks
otherwise, and since 1 January manufacturers have been under
a mandate to make sure that at least 22 percent of the vehicles
they sell are zero emission, a proportion that is due to rise
to 80 percent by 2030. Fail, and they face stiff fines.
. . .
When ideology/fanaticism meet reality, typically both
suffer horrible deaths.
Green fanaticism makes it impossible for governments
and makers to admit that current e-cars just SUCK in
many dimensions. The traditionally left-leaning Greens
have even managed to ignore the SLAVE LABOR and MASS
ENVIRONMENTAL DEGRADATION that goes into making the
batteries (mostly in China).
The range is way too short, the recharge time is much
too long, the batteries go bad - if they don't explode
first - and cost WAY too much. Will NEVER be enough
charging stations either. E-Cars are also becoming
known for shoddy workmanship. Apparently to offset the
price of the batteries they cut back on the rest of
the vehicle ... so you're buying a $50,000 rattle-trap
worse than Detroit cars of the 70s.
Subsidies, subsidies, subsidies ... robbing The People
to pretend e-cars are OK. Ludicrous - and it really
doesn't actually FIX the probs with the vehicles. It
is an unsustainable approach.
There IS a niche for e-cars ... people who mostly exist
in and very near larger urban areas. Some little e-pod
car MAY take care of a lot of needs. However they will
be people's SECOND car, their toy. This has been seen
in Norway/Sweden especially. The dinosaur-fueled car
is the REAL car, for anything requiring range and/or
carrying capacity.
People simply HAVE to stop voting for 'leaders' who
don't GET any of this. A serious disaster looms for
the population otherwise. The Green fanatics will likely
demand Soviet-style travel restrictions next - hold you
prisoner in your little towns. This is not only unbearable
but note that e-trucks will make SUPPLIES hard to get
(and a LOT more expensive) in your little prison-towns
because e-trucks are just bigger e-cars.
There ARE a number of very fuel-efficient dinosaur
cars to be had. Some are rattle-traps but some are
perfectly OK, just "compact" and won't do 0-60
(0-100 EU) in zero-point-three milliseconds. Honda
sells good micro-vans, Kia sells good micro-suvs.
Toyota, well, aside from the lethal air-bags ...
Alas the USA seems incapable of building this size
and quality of vehicle. Not sure why, but it has
consistently failed. 4000 pound V-10 crew-cab
trucks, yes. There ARE niches for those, but in
the longer picture they're kind of a Bad Idea
outside said niche.
Tech/technique for producing alcohols from organic
waste is also improving. If you can get the real
cost of "E-50" (some other alcohols might actually
be better for cars) to decent levels and not waste
FOOD creating the alcohol ... well, now you've
gone about 50% "renewable", which is pretty damned
good. Fanatics won't like sanity however - so DON'T
ELECT THEM ANYMORE.
SOMEday, maybe, they'll come up with decent batteries.
The chemistry and physics will only give you JUST so
much however. The engineering challenges have also
sunk many initially-touted lithium replacements.
Hmm ... there are things called "vanadium flow batteries"
for solar home/grid apps - don't explode, charge super-fast,
much longer life than LiPo, They don't hold quite as much
power per pound but there is some hope. This is the best
potential replacement I've heard of, and I go through the
sci/tech/nerd news all the time. Just gotta fit 'em into
a vehicle ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery
https://interestingengineering.com/energy/chinese-scientists-develop-a-breakthrough-vanadium-flow-battery-stack
R Kym Horsell
Feb 7, 2024, 6:03:34 PMFeb 7
to
In alt.global-warming 68g.1502 <68g....@etr7.net> wrote:
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/06/the-electric-vehicles-farce-has-reached-a-shambolic-new-low/
>
> If the industry wants to survive, it should stop making bad cars
> nobody wants to drive. It appears to want subsidies instead
>
....
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/06/the-electric-vehicles-farce-has-reached-a-shambolic-new-low/
>
> If the industry wants to survive, it should stop making bad cars
> nobody wants to drive. It appears to want subsidies instead
>
The oil runs out in 50y. You better practice now hauling your truck
with a rope tied around you biggest kid.
--
Don't worry, we'll never run out of oil
Interesting Engineering, 9 Nov 2022
That being said, at current consumption, we have by some accounts an
estimated 47 years of oil left to be extracted. That equates to somewhere in
the region of 1.65 trillion barrels of proven oil reserves. Other sources up
this estimate a bit, but most agree we have around 50 years left, give or take.
World Oil Statistics
The world consumes 35,442,913,090 barrels of oil as of the year 2016,
equivalent to 97,103,871 barrels per day. · Global oil consumption per
capita is 5 barrels ...
Oil Reserves: 1,650,585,140,000
Oil Consumption: 35,442,913,090
Reserves/Consumption: 47 <== years left i.e. 2016+47 == 2063
-- Worldometer
68g.1502
Feb 8, 2024, 4:04:53 AMFeb 8
to
On 2/7/24 6:03 PM, R Kym Horsell wrote:
> In alt.global-warming 68g.1502 <68g....@etr7.net> wrote:
>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/06/the-electric-vehicles-farce-has-reached-a-shambolic-new-low/
>>
>> If the industry wants to survive, it should stop making bad cars
>> nobody wants to drive. It appears to want subsidies instead
>>
> ....
>
> The oil runs out in 50y. You better practice now hauling your truck
> with a rope tied around you biggest kid.
They said the oil would run out 50 years AGO - I remember ! :-)
> In alt.global-warming 68g.1502 <68g....@etr7.net> wrote:
>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/06/the-electric-vehicles-farce-has-reached-a-shambolic-new-low/
>>
>> If the industry wants to survive, it should stop making bad cars
>> nobody wants to drive. It appears to want subsidies instead
>>
> ....
>
> The oil runs out in 50y. You better practice now hauling your truck
> with a rope tied around you biggest kid.
Actually, there's a LOT of oil/gas. It will, slowly, become
more difficult to get at. You can also make methanol from
coal.
And hey, this is why Joe is importing all the "Mexicans" -
and Nancy kinda said it once - you hook the harness to
THEM :-)
In any case I rec "E-50" for now, with the ethanol (or
better) made from bio-WASTE. The catalysts/methods ARE
improving. Hydrogen made with "unstable" energy sources
can also be added to natural gas - best used for the
vast industrial market. We use a LOT of energy just
heating-up stuff.
MAYBE, after a rather long time, someone will FINALLY
come up with good, safe,cheap-ish batteries that last
and don't explode and can be charged really fast.
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