air car
Broderick Crawford ililililil
will run 200 miles on a charge.
Anthony Matonak
> A Frenchman has a car that runs on compressed air. It goes 60mph and
> will run 200 miles on a charge.
Are you sure about this? The last time I heard about an
air powered car it was that MDI thing that only got up
to 20 mph and got about 5 miles on a charge.
Perhaps they've improved it some in the last few months.
Then again, they did announce that it was going into full
production in Mexico in 2000, then 2001, then 2002 and
so on for every year since. Can we believe them now?
Anthony
--
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me 8 years in a row... I would need my head examined.
Eeyore
Broderick Crawford ililililil wrote:
> A Frenchman has a car that runs on compressed air.
NO.
He has a JOKE CAR that he's been unable to sell to anyone for at least
about TEN years.
> It goes 60mph and will run 200 miles on a charge.
NO IT DOESN'T.
MDI is a laughing stock.
Graham
Eeyore
Anthony Matonak wrote:
> Broderick Crawford ililililil wrote:
> > A Frenchman has a car that runs on compressed air. It goes 60mph and
> > will run 200 miles on a charge.
>
> Are you sure about this? The last time I heard about an
> air powered car it was that MDI thing that only got up
> to 20 mph and got about 5 miles on a charge.
>
> Perhaps they've improved it some in the last few months.
>
> Then again, they did announce that it was going into full
> production in Mexico in 2000, then 2001, then 2002 and
> so on for every year since. Can we believe them now?
They're fraudsters.
Graham
Broderick Crawford ililililil
> Broderick Crawford ililililil wrote:
>> A Frenchman has a car that runs on compressed air. It goes 60mph and
>> will run 200 miles on a charge.
>
> Are you sure about this? The last time I heard about an
> air powered car it was that MDI thing that only got up
> to 20 mph and got about 5 miles on a charge.
>
> Perhaps they've improved it some in the last few months.
>
> Then again, they did announce that it was going into full
> production in Mexico in 2000, then 2001, then 2002 and
> so on for every year since. Can we believe them now?
>
> Anthony
People can no longer tell fact from fiction. Too much TV and movies.
Sacre Bleu
> A Frenchman has a car that runs on compressed air. It goes 60mph and
> will run 200 miles on a charge.
Yeah, I saw that on the Science Channel last night.
I'm some what skeptical with those stats.
Though if they could get it to power the engine AND power the compressor
simultaneously they MIGHT be able to extend the range to 200 and maybe
even.....perpetuity?
It would have to be one damn efficent engine[s] with extremely low drag
to achieve perpetual motion.
I have a friend who's 8 year old is fixated on the concept of perpetual
motions and is constantly running experiments in their garage. My friend
is somewhat of an idiot savant himself but his kid FRIGHTENS him with
the ideas he comes up with. Maybe it takes the mind of a child to solve
an adult problem.
Eeyore
Sacre Bleu wrote:
> Broderick Crawford ililililil wrote:
>
> > A Frenchman has a car that runs on compressed air. It goes 60mph and
> > will run 200 miles on a charge.
>
> Yeah, I saw that on the Science Channel last night.
> I'm some what skeptical with those stats.
> Though if they could get it to power the engine AND power the compressor
> simultaneously they MIGHT be able to extend the range to 200 and maybe
> even.....perpetuity?
Compressed air is a ridiculous way to store energy. It's very lossy (i.e. in
efficient) and has poor energy density. Also it's ridiculously noisy and
slow.
Its a technological dead-end. Has been discussed to death in the energy
groups many times before, yet clowns like Crawford insist on dragging it
back in for lampooning from time to time.
The MDI company have been trying to promote it for over a decade with
regular announcements that it's about to go into production which have all
turned out to be LIES.
Graham
Broderick Crawford ililililil
Anthony Matonak
> Eeyore wrote:
>> The MDI company have been trying to promote it for over a decade with
>> regular announcements that it's about to go into production which have all
>> turned out to be LIES.
>>
I'll put MDI right up there with everyone else with wild claims they
haven't been able to prove. There are all those overunity/perpetual
motion devices, breakthrough solar technologies, even a flying car.
I'm not going to hold my breath.
Anthony
Bob F
"Broderick Crawford ililililil" <bcrawf...@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:4756c5c4$0$2556$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
If you just take a few minutes to look at the energy needed to compress air, and
the energy density stored in compressed air, it just doesn't work out.
I'm sure the developer will be happy to receive your life savings as an
investment in it's company, with promises of making you rich beyond your wildest
dreams.
Bob
Arnold Walker
"Bob F" <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Jr6dnZdtOuULdMva...@comcast.com...
energy density than the air car.
Eeyore
Broderick Crawford ililililil wrote:
> We'll just have to wait for the developer
You mean fraudster.
> to prove you idiots wrong.
You reckon they can prove the laws of physics wrong as well do you ?
You're a classic example of the kind of ignorant slime that infest these groups
who talk utter bullshit about pie-in-the-sky ideas that are totally impractical
becasue they're simply scientifically unsound.
Just wishing something will happen won't make it so. The concept has to be valid
in the first place. In the case of MDI's air car, the concept is simply badly
flawed. Not so flawed that it doesn't work at all, but badly enough flawed that
it'll never be a practical car.
NOW PISS OFF
Graham
Eeyore
Anthony Matonak wrote:
Their fundamental problem is that compressed air is a lousy way to store energy.
It's very inefficient for one thing and practical size pressure tanks simply
can't provide a useful combination of speed and range.
Graham
Bob F
"Arnold Walker" <arnold...@consolidated.net> wrote in message
news:119687...@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
I use plenty of air tools. And have a compressor that draws 25 amps at 240V to
drive them. The issue is storage density. How long can you run a tool on one
cycle of the compressor? Just a number on minutes - and that's just a hand tool,
not a car.
Broderick Crawford ililililil
gallons instead of 500 gallons. Get it?
Broderick Crawford ililililil
Eeyore
Broderick Crawford ililililil wrote:
> Face it, you're just a nut case.
Face it, you're an IDIOT
daestrom
500 gal is about 67 ft^3. If filled with 3015 psia air and allowed to
expand to 15 psia, while adding heat to it to maintain the same temperature,
it will expand to a volume of 13,435 ft^3. If you manage this expansion
perfectly with no losses, you get a total of about 154 million ft-lbf of
energy. That works out to about 78 hp-hour. Throw in some typical losses
for an air-motor system, drive train, and misc and you're talking about 50
hp-hour. If you can't keep the air temperature steady and it is allowed to
cool as it expands, you get a lot less even than that.
So, *if* you manage some large air-heater to keep it warm, you get 50 hp to
move your air-car for one hour, or 75 hp to move it for about 40 minutes on
the highway. Would need a pretty small, low-drag car to even get to highway
speeds on 50 hp and you have to stop < 1hour to recharge.
Now, do *you* 'get it'???
daestrom
BobG
wrote:
> So, *if* you manage some large air-heater to keep it warm, you get 50 hp to
> move your air-car for one hour, or 75 hp to move it for about 40 minutes on
> the highway. Would need a pretty small, low-drag car to even get to highway
> speeds on 50 hp and you have to stop < 1hour to recharge.
So the air car is just like a little electric car... if you putter
around using 15 or 20 hp and some clever regen pump arrangement, you
could get around town for a while, then when you get back to your
house you plug it into the Mother Of All Commercial 240V Three Phase
Air Compressors for a couple of hours. If it was 50hp-hrs that would
be about 37.3KW-hrs or about $6 at 15 cents per KW-hr. About the same
cost as two gallons of gas, or about the same ditance of about 60
miles if its as efficient as a 30mpg car.
Eeyore
daestrom wrote:
> So, *if* you manage some large air-heater to keep it warm, you get 50 hp to
> move your air-car for one hour, or 75 hp to move it for about 40 minutes on
> the highway. Would need a pretty small, low-drag car to even get to highway
> speeds on 50 hp and you have to stop < 1hour to recharge.
>
> Now, do *you* 'get it'???
"Broderick Crawford" is incapable of getting anything other than crabs probably.
Graham
Eeyore
BobG wrote:
Yes, it'll do that.
It's a noisy little bugger too. It'll be freezing in winter as well.
Graham
Arnold Walker
"BobG" <bobga...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:328688fe-c80b-4a7d...@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 10, 4:29?pm, "daestrom" <daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com>
Part of the reason many mines favored air over electric drive is that
compressor can be recharging before you plug in.
And the train would be fully recharged in seconds instead of hours like with
batteries.
Coal mines in germany for example would have the train dump coal at the
boiler room hopper.
And a steam engine would pump up the air tank with something that looked
like it came out of a scuba shop.
And most air drives were steam piston with a a 10 degree change in timing
compared to steam.(steam has a faster expansion rate than air.)
The best of the air engines were like the best of the steamrate
engines..........valve timing would do a partial recompression on some of
the air instead of exhausting all of it.Air recompressed to 250psi is 500F
start walking out from that to anywhere near 3200psi and you are talking
melting metal.
Another trick they used was to preheat the air in the head......to get some
of that compression heat.
So throw in a gasifier at the house with a stockpile of biomass and you got
a very fast charging "electric car"
And house electricity as well from the steamplant,while you are charging up
the car like the german coal miners did.
About a hundred years ago.......
Now on size,most of the steamcars did have air drive third parties.And you
are talking a two ton car with 15tons of starting torque and 200hp short
term
peak with 20 to 40 hp. continuous.operation.
In the early 1900's . the better units would have a "air" boiler running 2
to 3 times the the max pressure
for the engine which was 700-1000psi ,needless to say you did not run a
standard stanley boiler.....hydro to
1200psi and operated at about 550psi.... in a Stanley converted to air
.Instead you would go to air to air
preheat(the "air boiler") operating at 3000 and hydro to 6000psi with a
check valve on the small compresser
on the axle that acted as exhaust blower(that could pull a few torrs on the
exhaust) and air boiler feed compressor for rear mounted piston drive
engine(many like the Stanley had the drive engine spinning a striaght cut
gear turning the differential gear that was also striaght cut.So the
differential would in many cases share the oil with the engine.And at the
same time one of the axles usually the passenger side one would drive the
boiler feed pump.).
A major engineer job for the rankine guys.......
Oh and "boiler " was need never shutdown except for maintence ...so you had
a 2000 to 3000psi charged pressure tank online 24/7.
After the inital charge at the shop compressor........the flame in the
boiler(air preheat exchanger) was pressure control to maintain charge
pressure.
One would assume that after a 100-150 years an engineer can improve on that
........
Bob F
>>>> investment in it's company, with promises of making you rich beyond your
>>>> wildest dreams.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>> So you are not going to use any air tools......since they have even less
>>> energy density than the air car.
>>
>> I use plenty of air tools. And have a compressor that draws 25 amps at 240V
>> to
>> drive them. The issue is storage density. How long can you run a tool on one
>> cycle of the compressor? Just a number on minutes - and that's just a hand
>> tool,
>> not a car.
>>
>>
> That's because the stored pressure is 150 lbs instead of 3000 lbs and 20
> gallons instead of 500 gallons. Get it?
And efficiency goes down as pressure increases to compress air. And 500 gallon
3000 psi air tanks are really heavy (AND big - want to carry one around on your
car?). And cars take a LOT more power than hand tools. Get it?
Bob F
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:475DF6AF...@hotmail.com...
But you get "free" air conditioning.
Eeyore
Arnold Walker wrote:
> Part of the reason many mines favored air over electric drive is....
Because they don't make sparks. You have to be careful in potentially explosive
atmospheres.
Graham
daestrom
"BobG" <bobga...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:328688fe-c80b-4a7d...@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Yep. And in some markets, that will be 'good enough'. But it'll probably
*never* be able to go to 'grandma's house' for Thanksgiving dinner (i.e.
'over the river and through the woods...')
daestrom
Broderick Crawford ililililil
That's why I'd haul a trailer with an Ingersoll-Rand jackhammer compressor.
Bob F
Which probably puts out a few humdred psi at best. Won't fill your tank.
And talk about efficiency?
daestrom
So instead of stopping every few miles to recharge the air tank, you stop at
every diesel pit-stop to refill the compressor. Ah, now I get it, you were
joking..... :-)
daestrom
BobG
you are either a fan or descendent of his? Or your mother was a fan?