"Poor Man's Turbo"
ben williams
just a 12v heater blower. Hose attaches to the air cleaner outlet and a
toggle switch on the dash turned it on (had to turn it off to idle, too much
air/too little gas). worked pretty good too!
ben
"Bloody Viking" <nos...@ripco.com> wrote in message
news:89pqdh$2eo$1...@gail.ripco.com...
> Today, I changed the air filter in my 1987 Volkswagen Quantum, as I have a
> problem with pathetic accelleration. It wasn't the cause, so the next item
to
> change is the fuel filter.
>
> But today, I thought of a funny idea for a "poor man't turbo" whereby one
has
> an old car that would cost more to soup it up than it's worth. I make for
a
> good example, as I paid $800 for my car but adding goodies to soup it up
would
> cost much more.
Bloody Viking
problem with pathetic accelleration. It wasn't the cause, so the next item to
change is the fuel filter.
But today, I thought of a funny idea for a "poor man't turbo" whereby one has
an old car that would cost more to soup it up than it's worth. I make for a
good example, as I paid $800 for my car but adding goodies to soup it up would
cost much more.
But today, I thought of a seemingly silly idea. If you have a car not worth
souping up but you want to anyways, you could in theory do it cheap, by adding
a leafblower as a supercharger! For about $100 and some work, you could add a
supercharger to the old car!
The theory is simple. A leafblower puts out a lot of wind, and before the
nozzle there is a pressure buildup. If the pressure buildup was a mere 3 psi
over room pressure, the engine would get a 20 percent power boost! Now, for
some math.
My car has the 2.2 litre Audi 5 cylinder engine and the redline on the tach is
6,200RPM. Since I never send it past 4,000RPM, let's do the math with that as
a "redline". Since it takes two revolutions per cycle, the engine has 2,000
burn cycles per minute. At that rate, it sucks in 4,400 litres of air per
minute. Now, to convert that to cubic feet. It works out that a cubic metre is
1,000 litres. Since we all know the exchange rate for a metre, let's convert
cubic metres to cubic yards:
The engine uses up 4.4 cubic metres a minute. Since a metre is 39.37 inches
and a yard is 36, we get 1.0936 for a linear conversion, so you get to cube
that factor:
1.0936 ^3 is 1.3079
4.4 cubic metres is 5.75 cubic yards or multiply by 27 and you get 155 cubic
feet of air used per minute. A 32 cc leafblower puts out 375 cubic feet a
minute and still has the pressure buildup! So, in theory, a leafblower could
in fact be used as a crude supercharger. In fact, it would work with my engine
to the design redline and beyond! Now, the question is what the pressure
buildup is. The pressure buildup will determine the power boost from pushing
the air into the engine with the leafblower. Since room pressure is 15 PSIA, a
3 PSI buildup is 20 percent power boost, and 5 PSI is 33 percent power boost.
But alas, this crude supercharger presents special issues. First, when in use,
they need their own special petrol with oil mix, unlike the car itself. Also,
you'll need solenoids and buttons to start the supercharger from in the
cockpit. And don't forget you'll have to adapt an electric motor to "pull the
cord" as leafblowers have a cord to pull. But again, a motorcycle starter
motor could be adapted to turn the impeller to start the blower.
And that's beside the normal issues of adding a supercharger in the first
place. A 20 percent boost should be readily doable, while higher boosts could
require funny costly modifications. Note that the above math is assuming that
air is added to the engine normally at full room pressure, which is not the
case at redline.
Another issue is that this supercharger would only be used once in a while,
not all the time, like for a race or something. If you wanted to have this
supercharger for an old car for use in a punch-out scramble, you'll need some
way to start the supercharger before you punch out and board the car to blast
off. Given how it would have to be remotely startable, a good choice would be
to use a BASIC Stanp embedded system to start the supercharger and have it
revved up so when you get to the car you start the main engine and blast off.
Once out of sight of the workplace, you cut off the supercharger and drive
normally.
If all you need is intermittent supercharging, like for punch-out scrambles
and passing on freeways, an alternative is available. You take the compressor
casing and impeller from a leafblower and adapt it to a starter motor and rig
the same way. In this case, you have a pushbutton do a relay to start the
electric supercharger for a "poor man's nitrous" effect. You also get a nice
soft jet engine whigne effect too! It would be like an afterburner for a car.
Add a bigger battery for this. (:
The beauty of this idea is when you finally get rid of the old car, you keep
your homebrew supercharger. What would be really cool is to get a used cop car
Caprice Classic, swap out the camshaft and other goodies to make the engine a
Corvette engine, then add your homebrew supercharger. Now, you would have a
really fast Caprice Classic. A great name for this supercharged Corvettised
Caprice Classic when painted black would be to call it The Blackbird, after
the famous spy plane. You could name the car whatever you want of course, but
I like the idea of The Blackbird.
Before you add the supercharger, of course, do the easy mods to improve
performance a bit. Like make sure the air filter area is bigger for less
pressure drop, make sure the fuel filter is new, etc. Use better octane petrol
for best results. With the used cop car, add the Corvette goodies, or better
yet, racing goodies before adding your supercharger. You could add a scoop
thingy to the supercharger's inlet to avoid pressure drop and add a little bit
to pressure at full speed.
Or, if you are not a cheapskate, get the real thing type of supercharger!
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Bloody Viking
: Back in the 50-60's era, we 'poor men' used to 'turbo' our old cars with
: just a 12v heater blower. Hose attaches to the air cleaner outlet and a
: toggle switch on the dash turned it on (had to turn it off to idle, too much
: air/too little gas). worked pretty good too!
That's funny. I thought of the leafblower idea as a more "serious" version
of your idea. A leafblower supercharger wouldn't cost TOO much, but have
quite a kick in terms of power boost. (at least if done right) I did the
math while posting (from another account) to show that a good
cost-effective power boost could be attained by a leafblower as a "poor
man's turbo".
For intermittent use, an electric-engined version would be better as you
can have one switch for a punch-out scramble and normally only with a
button mounted on the helm for passing on a freeway. For this, you have a
pair of golf cart batteries as the "car battery" and a starter motor to
run the impeller in the compressor case.
Once I get my car working good again, I just might experiment with a "poor
man's turbo" of some sort. Oddly enough, modern cars would be more
amenable to "poor man's turbo" mods than the old cars. That's becuse of
the oxygen sensor and car computer. The problem would occur at high speed,
causing a high-velocity lean-out. In that case, microswitches on a tach
and solenoid valves to admit propane could fix this.
In that case, a cop car Caprice Classic with a leafblower supercharger and
propane system (and adding Corvette goodies) would make for one hell of a
fast car. As high-velocity leanout approaches, solenoid valves open one by
one to admit propane to suppliment the fuel after the fuel injectors max
out. Thus, you keep accellerating until you attain redline. By then, you'd
just about be flying. (: And everyone you fly by would be wondering what
the fuck you have under the bonnet. Homepower meets hot rodding.
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Mike
use,
> they need their own special petrol with oil mix, unlike the car itself.
Also,
> you'll need solenoids and buttons to start the supercharger from in the
> cockpit. And don't forget you'll have to adapt an electric motor to "pull
the
> cord" as leafblowers have a cord to pull. But again, a motorcycle starter
> motor could be adapted to turn the impeller to start the blower.
I bought an electric leaf blower at a yard sale for $10.00. That would be a
lot easier that the gas powered version. Just use a small inverter to power
it. Easy on/off.
Rotsa Ruck Rorge
Steve Spence
--
Steve Spence
Renewable Energy Pages
http://www.webconx.com
ssp...@webconx.com
(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
If we don't believe in freedom of speech
for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all.
--
"Mike" <mi...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:14F2D0299806C9AC.79EAEE5F...@lp.airnews.net...
> > But alas, this crude supercharger presents special issues. First, when
in
> use,
> > they need their own special petrol with oil mix, unlike the car itself.
> Also,
> > you'll need solenoids and buttons to start the supercharger from in the
> > cockpit. And don't forget you'll have to adapt an electric motor to
"pull
> the
> > cord" as leafblowers have a cord to pull. But again, a motorcycle
starter
> > motor could be adapted to turn the impeller to start the blower.
>
> I bought an electric leaf blower at a yard sale for $10.00. That would be
a
> lot easier that the gas powered version. Just use a small inverter to
power
> it. Easy on/off.
>
> Rotsa Ruck Rorge
>
// u l i a n
> Today, I changed the air filter in my 1987 Volkswagen Quantum, as I have a
> problem with pathetic accelleration. It wasn't the cause, so the next item to
> change is the fuel filter.
>
> But today, I thought of a funny idea for a "poor man't turbo" whereby one has
> an old car that would cost more to soup it up than it's worth. I make for a
I am curious if the proper phrase is "soup up" or "supe up", as in "make super". I
don't see what "soup" has to do with anything, but "supe would make more sense.
It's one of those phrases that are rare enough that no one really knows how to
spell it.
//ulian
--
You cannot go against nature
because when you do
go against nature
it's part of nature too
Bloody Viking
: I bought an electric leaf blower at a yard sale for $10.00. That would be a
: lot easier that the gas powered version. Just use a small inverter to power
: it. Easy on/off.
Yep, that would make for an easier system to build and use. A trick is to
find out how much air the car engine sucks in at the desired or redline
RPM. Also, different leafblowers will have different pressure buildups.
A good question comes up with the car computer. Will the exact car
computer be able to deal with pressure above room pressure? They normally
deal with only room pressure or some partial vacuum.
An improvement on the electric supercharger and inverter is to add a
dimmer switch. By having an intake manifold gauge, you use the dimmer
switch to throttle the supercharger and get to see the vacuum/pressure on
the manifold as you fly the car. But this will take the skill of being
able to drive/fly one-handed so as to have the other hand on the dimmer
switch. I drive/fly cars righty, so having the dimmer on the left would
work out great for me, as I'm ambidextrous. In America, the dimmer and
other controls would be on the door.
Also, you would want a voltage gauge, a 10 watt electrical load, and a few
switches. Dimmer switches have an annoying problem of having to turn them
up before the triac "catches". For the supercharger, you would start the
inverter, then with the supercharger OFF, you open the dimmer and get a
voltage, and turn it down low, then align power to the supercharger. Then,
you fly home on your commuting mission. The vacuum/pressure gauge is for
as you fly off you can modulate pressure to match the exact design of your
car's system. In many cases, you'd keep it at real close to room pressure
unless the computer can handle positive preassure or you add propane with
solenoid valves.
Cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
>Bloody Viking wrote:
>
>> Today, I changed the air filter in my 1987 Volkswagen Quantum, as I have a
>> problem with pathetic accelleration. It wasn't the cause, so the next item to
>> change is the fuel filter.
>>
>> But today, I thought of a funny idea for a "poor man't turbo" whereby one has
>> an old car that would cost more to soup it up than it's worth. I make for a
>
>I am curious if the proper phrase is "soup up" or "supe up", as in "make super". I
>don't see what "soup" has to do with anything, but "supe would make more sense.
>It's one of those phrases that are rare enough that no one really knows how to
>spell it.
>
>//ulian
It is definitely Soup up - as in adding more to the soup.
Bob Peterson
"Mike" <mi...@nowhere.com> writes:
>
>I bought an electric leaf blower at a yard sale for $10.00. That would be a
>lot easier that the gas powered version. Just use a small inverter to power
>it. Easy on/off.
>
>
my electric leaf blower pulls almost 10 amps. thats not a small invertor.
$10 free! https://secure.paypal.com/refer/pal=peter...@aol.com
Learn all about how the NSA spys on you. Search on "Project Echelon" at your
favorite search engine. Another service brought to you by the Clintons.
Ace Lightning
>>But today, I thought of a funny idea for a "poor man't turbo" whereby one has
>>an old car that would cost more to soup it up than it's worth. I make for a
>don't see what "soup" has to do with anything, but "supe would make more sense.
>It's one of those phrases that are rare enough that no one really knows how to
>spell it.
<pedant>
there are two opinions of how the phrase "soup up" came to
mean "to improve the performance of a car". one is, as you say,
that it really ought to be "supe up", as in "supercharge",
or give the car "super" performance. the other derivation
comes from the practice of adding nitromethane to the fuel
to increase power. nitromethane, or "nitro" (also known
simply as "fuel"), is what powers drag racers. it was sometimes
referred to as "soup" (i suppose because it's liquid, at
least at some temperatures), so to add nitromethane "soup"
to the car would "soup up" its engine.
</pedant>
Scott Dorsey
>the other derivation
>comes from the practice of adding nitromethane to the fuel
>to increase power. nitromethane, or "nitro" (also known
>simply as "fuel"), is what powers drag racers. it was sometimes
>referred to as "soup" (i suppose because it's liquid, at
>least at some temperatures), so to add nitromethane "soup"
>to the car would "soup up" its engine.
Okay, explain to me the practice of adding mothballs to gasoline, Ace.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Dave
you increase the size of the turbo, it saps even more power (same for
a supercharger) this poor man's turbo doesn't really cut it.
Belt driven superchargers the size of alternators exist already. They
directly increase their boost with engine RPM, not extra electronics
needed, no need to mix 2:1 fuel or have a big electric motor spin
them.
Stock ECU to compensate? Really doubt it, the fuel/timing maps do not
extend far enough to compensate for boost on an originally non-boosted
car. Then there's issues with detonation, upgrading the fuel system,
unrestricting the exhaust system, reworking your brake booster setup,
PCV system, EGR setup, etc etc.
It's a pipe dream.
Dave
On 05 Mar 2000 02:49:27 GMT, peter...@aol.comnospam (Bob Peterson)
wrote:
Steve Spence
gasoline, and in the air cleaner. how does naphthalene compare to gasoline
in energy content and ignitability?
--
Steve Spence
Renewable Energy Pages
http://www.webconx.com
ssp...@webconx.com
(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
If we don't believe in freedom of speech
for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all.
--
"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@netcom.com> wrote in message
news:89u5li$na8$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net...
Bloody Viking
: there are two opinions of how the phrase "soup up" came to
: mean "to improve the performance of a car". one is, as you say,
: that it really ought to be "supe up", as in "supercharge",
: or give the car "super" performance. the other derivation
: comes from the practice of adding nitromethane to the fuel
: to increase power. nitromethane, or "nitro" (also known
: simply as "fuel"), is what powers drag racers. it was sometimes
: referred to as "soup" (i suppose because it's liquid, at
: least at some temperatures), so to add nitromethane "soup"
: to the car would "soup up" its engine.
Instead of nitromethane, you could add some trinitrotoulene to the petrol.
But be careful with trinitrotoulene. Add too much and the car EXPLODES.
HINT: Trinitrotoulene is normally referred as TNT. And it is a liquid.
Bob Peterson
<nos...@masu.wwa.com> writes:
>
>Instead of nitromethane, you could add some trinitrotoulene to the petrol.
>But be careful with trinitrotoulene. Add too much and the car EXPLODES.
>HINT: Trinitrotoulene is normally referred as TNT. And it is a liquid.
>
>
its also extremely unstable and illegal to own generally.
Ace Lightning
>>the other derivation
>>comes from the practice of adding nitromethane to the fuel
>>to increase power. nitromethane, or "nitro" (also known
>>simply as "fuel"), is what powers drag racers. it was sometimes
>>referred to as "soup" (i suppose because it's liquid, at
>>least at some temperatures), so to add nitromethane "soup"
>>to the car would "soup up" its engine.
<pedant>
mothballs are paradichlorobenzene, C6H4Cl2 (NOT naphtha or
naphthalene, as another message mentions). while "para" is
flammable, it isn't a particularly potent energy source.
besides, it isn't a liquid; it's a waxy solid that sublimes,
giving off toxic vapors that kill moths in your closet (and/or
repel insects and other pests because they also have such an
irritating smell).
napthalene, C10H8, used to be used the same way in mothballs;
it is rarely used now because it is more toxic to humans than
paradichlorobenzene, although it is an important feedstock in
many chemical manufacturing processes. "naphtha" is a term
referring to a mixture of light hydrocarbons, obtained as a
petroleum fraction or from the production of coal tar. it is
liquid, and used as both a solvent and a fuel, as well as
a chemical feedstock. (most of the familiar liquid petrochemical
fuels such as gasoline and kerosene are technically "naphthas".)
nitromethane, CH3(NO2), is a volatile liquid. naturally, it
is also toxic to a certain degree, and its combustion products
are high in oxides of nitrogen. it is almost useless as a moth
repellent.
</pedant>
// u l i a n
> Ace Lightning <acelig...@monmouth.com> wrote:
> >the other derivation
> >comes from the practice of adding nitromethane to the fuel
> >to increase power. nitromethane, or "nitro" (also known
> >simply as "fuel"), is what powers drag racers. it was sometimes
> >referred to as "soup" (i suppose because it's liquid, at
> >least at some temperatures), so to add nitromethane "soup"
> >to the car would "soup up" its engine.
>
> Okay, explain to me the practice of adding mothballs to gasoline, Ace.
I was told that the chemicals in mothballs were added to gasoline in cars
by frauds who claimed that the chemical was cleaning the engine out. The
chemicals caused great black smoke to emerge from the exhaust, so it
looked like a great deal of gunk was being cleaned out, when in fact it
was just nasty smoke as a consequence of the mothballs.
Steve Spence
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/may98/894550073.Gb.r.html
http://www.brigham.com/msds/153250.htm
so it appears that at some point the ingredients changed from napthalene to
PDB. When I was racing, it was napthalene.
Mothballs
Naphthalene and paradichlorobenzene (PDB) are poisonous chemicals with the
familiar mothball smell. Both have been linked to cancer in animals.
Prolonged exposure to naphthalene may cause seizures; irritation to nose,
throat, and lungs; headaches, confusion, or depression; liver and kidney
damage; contact dermatitis; and a form of anemia. It can be absorbed through
the lungs, skin, stomach, and eyes. PDB is less acutely toxic than
naphthalene but produces similar symptoms.
some dog repellent is made from napthalene:
http://www.dragoncorp.com/8123.htm
--
Steve Spence
Renewable Energy Pages
http://www.webconx.com
ssp...@webconx.com
(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
If we don't believe in freedom of speech
for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all.
--
"Ace Lightning" <acelig...@monmouth.com> wrote in message
news:38C2B443...@monmouth.com...
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >>the other derivation
> >>comes from the practice of adding nitromethane to the fuel
> >>to increase power. nitromethane, or "nitro" (also known
> >>simply as "fuel"), is what powers drag racers. it was sometimes
> >>referred to as "soup" (i suppose because it's liquid, at
> >>least at some temperatures), so to add nitromethane "soup"
> >>to the car would "soup up" its engine.
> > Okay, explain to me the practice of adding mothballs to gasoline, Ace.
>
king rock.
does anyone have the original post for this?
I cannot find it.. and would like to read
to satisfy my curiosity.
Thx,
Taylor
80 Death Rabbit
Big Carbs
Big Ports
Big Cam
Big Noise
Eric
to be poisoned.
Compare the cost of mothballs and super-unleaded gas, on a per-pound basis.
I am guessing (wild-ass guess) that mothballs are more expensive.
Not only that, naphthalene could contribute to injector fouling (probably
not.) Naphthalene "looks" like two benzene rings stuck together, and is
already present in gasoline - more in more highly reformed gas.
Maybe back in the days when gas was of spotty quality, naphthalene made some
difference. Nowadays? I highly doubt it. Plus, it would be a huge PITA to
messaround with all the time. One last thing - if your engine can't take
advantage of a higher octane gas, then why bother? (Advanced timing, higher
compression, etc.)
Eric
"Steve Spence" <steve....@home.com> wrote in message
news:sVxw4.40120$pN1.4...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com...
> mothballs are made of naphthalene, I've heard of people putting them in
> gasoline, and in the air cleaner. how does naphthalene compare to gasoline
> in energy content and ignitability?
>
> --
> Steve Spence
> Renewable Energy Pages
> http://www.webconx.com
> ssp...@webconx.com
> (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
> If we don't believe in freedom of speech
> for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all.
> --
>
> "Scott Dorsey" <klu...@netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:89u5li$na8$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net...
> > Ace Lightning <acelig...@monmouth.com> wrote:
> > >the other derivation
> > >comes from the practice of adding nitromethane to the fuel
> > >to increase power. nitromethane, or "nitro" (also known
> > >simply as "fuel"), is what powers drag racers. it was sometimes
> > >referred to as "soup" (i suppose because it's liquid, at
> > >least at some temperatures), so to add nitromethane "soup"
> > >to the car would "soup up" its engine.
> >
> > Okay, explain to me the practice of adding mothballs to gasoline, Ace.
Steve Spence
emission control. just a quest for horsepower. negligible affect, so we
dropped it.
--
Steve Spence
Renewable Energy Pages
http://www.webconx.com
ssp...@webconx.com
(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
If we don't believe in freedom of speech
for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all.
--
"Eric" <ri...@campquake.com.trimit> wrote in message
news:89uq7e$huc$1...@starbug.oit.pdx.edu...
Bloody Viking
: Wait... i don't get it.
: does anyone have the original post for this?
: I cannot find it.. and would like to read
: to satisfy my curiosity.
Go to alt.energy.homepower and read the thread. What happened was a typo
in the Newsgroups: line where a comma was needed but I put a dot instead.
You can also see the original posting in talk.bizarre.
The idea in a nutshell is to use a leafblower as a supercharger, and I
show the math to show that it would work at providing a modest power
boost for only about $100 or so.
ben williams
A turbocharger uses no horsepower. It is powered by the exhaust gasses.
A supercharger OTOH does use hp to make hp, as it is powered by the engine
via drive belt. (usually in the 1 to 10 range, 1hp used for every 10hp
added)
ben
"Dave" <Da...@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:38c3a4b...@news2.newscene.com...
Dave
Cletrac
TNT is not a liquid until heated to about 100 degrees C, otherwise it is a
cream to tan colored solid.
Cletrac
TNT is not at all unstable until heated to the point it becomes a liquid. TNT
requires a blasting cap to cause it to detonate. You can burn it in an open
fire without any problem. You can also beat it with a hammer without fear of
detonation.
Believe me! I have worked with it for a number of years and know of what I
speak.
In most cases too, owning explosives is not illegal. Discharging them is.
Steve Spence
the engine. no free lunch.
--
Steve Spence
Renewable Energy Pages
http://www.webconx.com
ssp...@webconx.com
(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
If we don't believe in freedom of speech
for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all.
--
"ben williams" <wms...@netquick.net> wrote in message
news:89utfq$bcr$1...@gaddy.interpath.net...
D. R. Puckett
nos...@ripco.com (Bloody Viking) writes:
& [...] Also,
& you'll need solenoids and buttons to start the supercharger from in the
& cockpit. And don't forget you'll have to adapt an electric motor to "pull the
& cord" as leafblowers have a cord to pull. But again, a motorcycle starter
& motor could be adapted to turn the impeller to start the blower.
Just drill a hole through the firewall and run the starter cord
through it into the passenger area. Then try to stay on the road as
you yank the cord.
--
C. D. Puckett replace "sendnospam" with "puckett"
ben williams
the power has been spent. The turbo rides in the exhaust gas stream on one
side and compresses air to the carb on the other side.
ben
"Dave" <Da...@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:38c3367b...@news2.newscene.com...
> If that were true, we'd have a perpetual motion machine correct?
>
>
> On Sun, 5 Mar 2000 16:03:36 -0500, "ben williams"
> <wms...@netquick.net> wrote:
>
Fred McGalliard
Bob Peterson wrote:
...
> >HINT: Trinitrotoulene is normally referred as TNT. And it is a liquid.
> its also extremely unstable and illegal to own generally.
Probably illegal without the proper permits. I do not think it is
particularly unstable. Actually I thought it was a waxy solid. But I
recall the point, (from chemistry many years ago), that TNT is not
mechanically sensitive, like nitroglycerine. It generally requires a
detonator to trigger explosive decomposition. I do seem to recall that
some metals like to react with it to produce very mechanically sensitive
explosives (although I could be confusing TNT with picric acid. It has
been a long time). So you would want to be very careful storing it, and
probably not want to add it to gasoline in a fuel tank.
Fred McGalliard
ben williams wrote:
>
> Dave;
> A turbocharger uses no horsepower. It is powered by the exhaust gasses.
This is, I think, only partly true. The increased back pressure because
the exhaust is forced to turn a turbine does demand some of the
horsepower of the engine. It is just given back 10 fold by the higher
pressure of the intake air.
KENNETH GRIGSBY
wayne
Cletrac wrote in message <20000305214322...@ng-cf1.aol.com>...
>>HINT: Trinitrotoulene is normally referred as TNT. And it is a liquid.
>
Dave
You're putting a restriction in the exhaust system. Now the engine
has to work to overcome that restriction using up horsepower.
If you were to put a boost gauge on the exhaust system between the
turbo and the engine you would see pressure being built up when the
turbo 'kicks in'. It takes energy to do this. It is a known fact
that decreasing the backpressure in an engine increases HP (forget the
effects of scavenging). The reverse is true in a turbo application,
the increase in backpressure uses HP, but it is used to compress the
air on the intake side.
So, you don't get a free ride. The turbo does sap power from the
engine.
Dave
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000 07:33:13 -0500, "ben williams"
<wms...@netquick.net> wrote:
>Would you consider a hydro-electric plant to be perpetual motion ?
>the power has been spent. The turbo rides in the exhaust gas stream on one
>side and compresses air to the carb on the other side.
>ben
>
>"Dave" <Da...@nothere.com> wrote in message
>news:38c3367b...@news2.newscene.com...
>> If that were true, we'd have a perpetual motion machine correct?
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2000 16:03:36 -0500, "ben williams"
>> <wms...@netquick.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Dave;
>> > A turbocharger uses no horsepower. It is powered by the exhaust gasses.
Steve Spence
backpressure.
--
Steve Spence
Renewable Energy Pages
http://www.webconx.com
ssp...@webconx.com
(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
If we don't believe in freedom of speech
for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all.
--
"ben williams" <wms...@netquick.net> wrote in message
news:8a0jv4$fiv$1...@gaddy.interpath.net...
Mike
<nos...@masu.wwa.com> Bloody Viking kindly informs us...
>
>Instead of nitromethane, you could add some trinitrotoulene to the petrol.
>But be careful with trinitrotoulene. Add too much and the car EXPLODES.
In australia some service stations have been adding toluene to unleaded,
so much that 90% is toluene in the final tank - avoids fuel excise,
good thing there's no nitric acid in the fuel too ;-)
--
Rgds ~`:o)
Mike Perth, Western Australia Mailto: <era...@wantree.com.au>
99% efficient RAPS charger, GMH Turbo with Twin tyres, surplus parts:-
http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus
.
Some say there is no magic but, all things begin with thought then it
becomes academic, then some poor slob works out a practical way to
implement all that theory, this is called Engineering - for most
people another form of magic.
.
" ...mmm thats because the laws of physics exceed the boundaries of
the contractual agreement (and the money ain't enough either)... "
Bloody Viking
: A turbocharger uses no horsepower. It is powered by the exhaust gasses.
: A supercharger OTOH does use hp to make hp, as it is powered by the engine
: via drive belt. (usually in the 1 to 10 range, 1hp used for every 10hp
: added)
A turbo does cause some backpressure, which does reduce the engine's
efficiency by some small amount. In that convoluted way, it does use up
some horses to help create more horses. Happily, a turbo uses up less
ponies than a supercharger. That's why cars with turbos normally have good
exhaust systems.
With the supercharger, a 32 cc leafblower should theoretically add about
10 horses as the engine might make one horse to push the air. A 50 cc 2
stroke makes about 2, so a 32 cc leafblower assuming perfect fit would
make about 15 horses for the car engine.