Question on portable generator not producing power
Fred F.
as it did not effect me at the time, I did not fully absorb it.
Here is the description that was passed on to me:
My Craftsman 5600 watt generator (model 580.675610) uses a 10.0 HP
Briggs and Stratton engine and it runs great. While the unit starts on
the second pull after sitting for several months, it does not produce
an AC. The last time I discovered this issue (October 2008), I
contacted Sears and the technician who came out to service the
generator did something called �flashing the field coil� with a small
battery. Apparently the residual magnetism in the alternator weakens
through lack of use and this simple procedure of flashing the coil is
enough to excite the field and it resumes producing AC.
Even though I didn�t need to run the generator over the past winter, I
thought it was important to drain the old fuel out of the tank and
yesterday when I started the generator (for the first time since
October 2008, it would not produce AC. I called Sears and a technician
called me back to confirm the service call, but he told me I would
have to run this unit more often to ensure the residual magnetism in
the alternator didn�t weaken in order to ensure it produces AC each
time it starts.
I find it odd that I would have to start this particular generator
more often in order to ensure a constant flow of AC � each time it is
started. Is this a design fault with the unit or could there be
something wrong with this particular generator?
So, thanks in advance for assistance. Mainly the question is "Is this
an indication of a fault in the unit, or just the design and is there
a way to prevent this from happening if the generator sits for several
months?
richard
"Fred F." <hey...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:phql35l7ljhst560k...@4ax.com...
>I know that this has been asked (and answered) many times before, but
> as it did not effect me at the time, I did not fully absorb it.
>
> Here is the description that was passed on to me:
>
> My Craftsman 5600 watt generator (model 580.675610) uses a 10.0 HP
> Briggs and Stratton engine and it runs great. While the unit starts on
> the second pull after sitting for several months, it does not produce
> an AC. The last time I discovered this issue (October 2008), I
> contacted Sears and the technician who came out to service the
> generator did something called 'flashing the field coil' with a small
> battery. Apparently the residual magnetism in the alternator weakens
> through lack of use and this simple procedure of flashing the coil is
> enough to excite the field and it resumes producing AC.
>
> Even though I didn't need to run the generator over the past winter, I
> thought it was important to drain the old fuel out of the tank and
> yesterday when I started the generator (for the first time since
> October 2008, it would not produce AC. I called Sears and a technician
> called me back to confirm the service call, but he told me I would
> have to run this unit more often to ensure the residual magnetism in
> the alternator didn't weaken in order to ensure it produces AC each
> time it starts.
>
> I find it odd that I would have to start this particular generator
> started. Is this a design fault with the unit or could there be
> something wrong with this particular generator?
>
> So, thanks in advance for assistance. Mainly the question is "Is this
> an indication of a fault in the unit, or just the design and is there
> a way to prevent this from happening if the generator sits for several
> months?
Sorry you are fucked man!
> contacted Sears and the technician who came out to service the
> generator did something called 'flashing the field coil' with a small
> battery. Apparently the residual magnetism in the alternator weakens
> through lack of use and this simple procedure of flashing the coil is
If you believe in the above shit then you might believe in whatever idiotic
wmbjk...@citlink.net told you.
Martin Riddle
"Fred F." <hey...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:phql35l7ljhst560k...@4ax.com...
It could be the excitation coils were designed wrong. I've only flashed
one generator, a 60 to 50hz unit we had at work after we moved it.
Basically you need to magnetize the armature the field sits on. This
small magnetic field is enough to produce voltage for the field windings
when it spins up.
Heres a manual for that gen
<http://bsintek.basco.com/BriggsDocumentDisplay/default.aspx?filename=immtCK25YesPq79DteBc>
What you need to do is DISCONNECT the field winding and briefly connect
a small 12v battery to the Field winding.
If it�s a constant occurance then you should fashion a small connector
for the field winding and have a battery handy.
Only flash the field when the engine is NOT running.
Cheers
Harshana
How about placing couple of strong magnets close to field coils while
the gen is running. Magnets can be removed after it comes back to
life.
Ralph Mowery
> as it did not effect me at the time, I did not fully absorb it.
>
> Here is the description that was passed on to me:
>
>
> My Craftsman 5600 watt generator (model 580.675610) uses a 10.0 HP
> Briggs and Stratton engine and it runs great. While the unit starts on
> the second pull after sitting for several months, it does not produce
> an AC. The last time I discovered this issue (October 2008), I
> contacted Sears and the technician who came out to service the
> generator did something called 'flashing the field coil' with a small
> battery. Apparently the residual magnetism in the alternator weakens
> through lack of use and this simple procedure of flashing the coil is
> enough to excite the field and it resumes producing AC.
>
> Even though I didn't need to run the generator over the past winter, I
> thought it was important to drain the old fuel out of the tank and
> yesterday when I started the generator (for the first time since
> October 2008, it would not produce AC. I called Sears and a technician
> called me back to confirm the service call, but he told me I would
> have to run this unit more often to ensure the residual magnetism in
> the alternator didn't weaken in order to ensure it produces AC each
> time it starts.
>
> I find it odd that I would have to start this particular generator
> started. Is this a design fault with the unit or could there be
> something wrong with this particular generator?
>
>
>
> So, thanks in advance for assistance. Mainly the question is "Is this
> an indication of a fault in the unit, or just the design and is there
> a way to prevent this from happening if the generator sits for several
> months?
I bought 5 kw generator and had it about 2 years before I even started it.
It worked fine. Ran it for about an hour and let it run out of gas. Put it
back up for over a year. It started fine and produced power then with out
any problems. I did let some gas set up in a couple of times and it would
not start, but that is not your question. At no time did I ever have any
problems getting power after I got the motor started. I now start it about
week or two just because of the gas problem.
That being said, the book for it does show how to flash the field if it will
run but not generate any power. Some iron/steel will hold the magnetic
power beter than others will. Your generator probably does not have any
real problem , but does loose the magnitism.
Tim Jackson
> I know that this has been asked (and answered) many times before, but
> as it did not effect me at the time, I did not fully absorb it.
>
> Here is the description that was passed on to me:
>
>
> My Craftsman 5600 watt generator (model 580.675610) uses a 10.0 HP
> Briggs and Stratton engine and it runs great. While the unit starts on
> the second pull after sitting for several months, it does not produce
> an AC. The last time I discovered this issue (October 2008), I
> contacted Sears and the technician who came out to service the
> battery. Apparently the residual magnetism in the alternator weakens
> through lack of use and this simple procedure of flashing the coil is
> enough to excite the field and it resumes producing AC.
>
> thought it was important to drain the old fuel out of the tank and
> yesterday when I started the generator (for the first time since
> October 2008, it would not produce AC. I called Sears and a technician
> called me back to confirm the service call, but he told me I would
> have to run this unit more often to ensure the residual magnetism in
> time it starts.
>
> I find it odd that I would have to start this particular generator
> started. Is this a design fault with the unit or could there be
> something wrong with this particular generator?
>
>
>
> So, thanks in advance for assistance. Mainly the question is "Is this
> an indication of a fault in the unit, or just the design and is there
> a way to prevent this from happening if the generator sits for several
> months?
It's not a fault as such, but a combination of design, materials and
conditions of use which allow the residual rotor magnetism to collapse
below the starting threshold.
In cars the ignition light performs this function, feeding a small
current from the battery to a point between the field rectifier and
field regulator whenever the ignition is switched on (and the alternator
is not generating). On a free-standing generator you can't do this
because there is no battery. However it would not be rocket science to
wire a lamp from the field rectifier to a small battery and "ignition
switch" to excite it.
Tim Jackson
Ulysses
> as it did not effect me at the time, I did not fully absorb it.
>
> Here is the description that was passed on to me:
>
>
> My Craftsman 5600 watt generator (model 580.675610) uses a 10.0 HP
> Briggs and Stratton engine and it runs great. While the unit starts on
> the second pull after sitting for several months, it does not produce
> an AC. The last time I discovered this issue (October 2008), I
> contacted Sears and the technician who came out to service the
> generator did something called 'flashing the field coil' with a small
> battery. Apparently the residual magnetism in the alternator weakens
> through lack of use and this simple procedure of flashing the coil is
> enough to excite the field and it resumes producing AC.
>
> Even though I didn't need to run the generator over the past winter, I
> thought it was important to drain the old fuel out of the tank and
> yesterday when I started the generator (for the first time since
> October 2008, it would not produce AC. I called Sears and a technician
> called me back to confirm the service call, but he told me I would
> have to run this unit more often to ensure the residual magnetism in
> the alternator didn't weaken in order to ensure it produces AC each
> time it starts.
>
> I find it odd that I would have to start this particular generator
> started. Is this a design fault with the unit or could there be
> something wrong with this particular generator?
>
>
>
> So, thanks in advance for assistance. Mainly the question is "Is this
> an indication of a fault in the unit, or just the design and is there
> a way to prevent this from happening if the generator sits for several
> months?
I would not be very happy with such a generator but I wouldn't necessary
call it a flaw--some seem to hold the residual magnetism better than others.
A couple of things you could try: when you first start it have a voltmeter
attached to the AC output and try prodding the governor to increase the
engine speed momentarily. Some generator heads will start producing if you
do this. Also, when you do run it on occasion are you running it with a
load? Try connecting a 3000 watt or so load and run it for a few minutes.
Might help, might not. Put some Sta-Bil (gasoline stabilizer) in the gas
and run it more often. Personally I would not leave gas in the tank (or
carburator) longer than about six months, even with the stabilizer.
I have flashed field coils with the generator running. Someone said to do
it only with the engine not running. What I do is have a volmeter attached
and as soon as the meter starts moving disconnect the "flash" battery. If
you are not quick enough then bad things could happen.
lost
running. This should magnetize the stator and enable it to produce
electricity. Many older gennys required "flashing the field". Most newer
ones don't. You can make a simple electromagnet out of a piece of iron,
wire, and a car battery. Don't make your connections directly to battery;
sparks don't ya know!
"Fred F." <hey...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:phql35l7ljhst560k...@4ax.com...
>I know that this has been asked (and answered) many times before, but
> as it did not effect me at the time, I did not fully absorb it.
>
> Here is the description that was passed on to me:
>
>
> My Craftsman 5600 watt generator (model 580.675610) uses a 10.0 HP
> Briggs and Stratton engine and it runs great. While the unit starts on
> the second pull after sitting for several months, it does not produce
> an AC. The last time I discovered this issue (October 2008), I
> contacted Sears and the technician who came out to service the
> generator did something called 'flashing the field coil' with a small
> battery. Apparently the residual magnetism in the alternator weakens
> through lack of use and this simple procedure of flashing the coil is
> enough to excite the field and it resumes producing AC.
>
> Even though I didn't need to run the generator over the past winter, I
> thought it was important to drain the old fuel out of the tank and
> yesterday when I started the generator (for the first time since
> October 2008, it would not produce AC. I called Sears and a technician
> called me back to confirm the service call, but he told me I would
> have to run this unit more often to ensure the residual magnetism in
> the alternator didn't weaken in order to ensure it produces AC each
> time it starts.
>
> I find it odd that I would have to start this particular generator
> more often in order to ensure a constant flow of AC - each time it is
Ralph Mowery
"Ulysses" <thereal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:h1ga0t$tu3$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> I have flashed field coils with the generator running. Someone said to do
> it only with the engine not running. What I do is have a volmeter
> attached
> and as soon as the meter starts moving disconnect the "flash" battery. If
> you are not quick enough then bad things could happen.
>
>
My owners manual says to have the generator running when flashing the field
coil.
You are not flashing the 120/240 windings so it should not really be that
dangerous.
Ralph Mowery
"lost" <non...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:E4O_l.6698$FI5....@newsfe12.iad...
>I would bring a strong magnet next to the alternator case while it's
>running. This should magnetize the stator and enable it to produce
>electricity. Many older gennys required "flashing the field". Most newer
>ones don't. You can make a simple electromagnet out of a piece of iron,
>wire, and a car battery. Don't make your connections directly to battery;
>sparks don't ya know!
>
Have you actually tried this ?
lost
cap on the exciter. After repair, it generated ok. The alternator case was
noticeably magnetic. So, in answer to your question, I have flashed the
stator in several generators that required such action. I did not try
magnetizing the alternator case like I suggested. I was trying to separate
the op from having to flash the stator. My own genny has brushes and every
time it's started the pole pieces are made magnetic. It will never require
the field coils to be flashed. Some people are worried about working on
things electrical; me, I'm too silly to care. James
"Fred F." <hey...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:phql35l7ljhst560k...@4ax.com...
>I know that this has been asked (and answered) many times before, but
> as it did not effect me at the time, I did not fully absorb it.
>
> Here is the description that was passed on to me:
>
>
> My Craftsman 5600 watt generator (model 580.675610) uses a 10.0 HP
> Briggs and Stratton engine and it runs great. While the unit starts on
> the second pull after sitting for several months, it does not produce
> an AC. The last time I discovered this issue (October 2008), I
> contacted Sears and the technician who came out to service the
> generator did something called 'flashing the field coil' with a small
> battery. Apparently the residual magnetism in the alternator weakens
> through lack of use and this simple procedure of flashing the coil is
> enough to excite the field and it resumes producing AC.
>
> Even though I didn't need to run the generator over the past winter, I
> thought it was important to drain the old fuel out of the tank and
> yesterday when I started the generator (for the first time since
> October 2008, it would not produce AC. I called Sears and a technician
> called me back to confirm the service call, but he told me I would
> have to run this unit more often to ensure the residual magnetism in
> the alternator didn't weaken in order to ensure it produces AC each
> time it starts.
>
> I find it odd that I would have to start this particular generator
> more often in order to ensure a constant flow of AC - each time it is
Bruce in alaska
Fred F. <hey...@mail.com> wrote:
> I know that this has been asked (and answered) many times before, but
> as it did not effect me at the time, I did not fully absorb it.
>
> Here is the description that was passed on to me:
>
>
> My Craftsman 5600 watt generator (model 580.675610) uses a 10.0 HP
> Briggs and Stratton engine and it runs great. While the unit starts on
> the second pull after sitting for several months, it does not produce
> an AC.
snipped for Brevity...
> So, thanks in advance for assistance. Mainly the question is "Is this
> an indication of a fault in the unit, or just the design and is there
> a way to prevent this from happening if the generator sits for several
> months?
Ok, so you have a Sears (Generac) Genset where the engine runs just
spiffy, but no Juice comes out the Plugins.... and you PAID the Sears
Guy to come out and "Flash the Field" last time this happened.... and
now it has happened AGAIN... but you didn't pay attention to what the
guy did last time, and it must be a Design Error, cause it SHOULD "Just
Work".....
Welcome, to the world of Technology that you use, but don't understand..
Your Genset has TWO Windings. A fixed Stator (or Output) Winding, and a
rotating Field (or Exciter) Winding. There is a electrical connection
between the two windings, and usually some sort of Ac/Dc Rectifier -
Voltage Regulator System that controls the Excitation so you get 120 Vac
60 Hz Output out of the Stator Winding while putting just little juice
into the Field Winding. When the Genset has set unused for long periods
of time, (long is relative to the design of the genend) the Iron Core of
the rotating Field and it's Winding loose the slight Magnetism that
builds up when the genset is used. Your Genset REQUIRES this slight
Magnet response, to get things generating, and if it isn't there, you
get NO juice out of the fixed Stator Winding. To induce this slight
Magnetic Field, back into the Iron Core you need top "Flash the Field
Winding"..... To do this, you disconnect the Field Winding, from the
Ac/Dc Rectifier - Voltage Regulator System, and connect a 12 Vdc battery
across the Field Winding. this may be done with, or without the engine
turning, but most folks do it WITH the engine running. It should only
take a FEW Seconds to induce the Required Magnetic Field, into the Field
Winding and Field Core, and if you use a Voltmeter to monitor the output
you will see that the genend will be making juice while this is being
done. Once the Field Core Magnetic Response is recharged, it should hold
for a few months to a few years depending on the design of the Core.
Certainly for a few months anyway. Once Flashed, you stop the engine,
and reconnect the wires back to where they came from and reassemble
things back to the original State. Start up the engine, and Shazzamm,
You Gots Power....
If not, then you need to walk yourself over to www.SmokStak.com,
Register, (it is free) and tell our Resident SmartGuys, all about your
"Tail of Woe"... and they can get you educated and running again, right
quick... Everything you EVER "didn't" want to know about Generators in
general, and Generac Generators in particular, can be had over there,
and our Resident Smartguys, have hundreds of ManYears of experience with
Generators from 100 Watts, to many MegaWatts.....
--
Bruce in alaska
add <path> after <fast> to reply
You
"Ralph Mowery" <rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote:
It isn't the Stator that needs Flashing.... and you fon't do it with a
Magnet, from the outside of the case...... "lost" is just that...
LOST....
"Ulysses" is at least on the right track.... as he say don't let the
"Magic smoke out".....
"Tim" gets it, a bit, but most cars these days have Alternators with PM
Cores that don't ever require a Flash.... Ignition Light or not....
Harashana, nice guess, would you like to try for what is behind Door No.
3???? The Field Coil on the OP Gensets is Rotating, just how would you
suggest he stick that magnet in there, while it is running....
Martin has a Clue... good for him....
Richard is a Dufus. of the First Order....
and "You", that is "Me", will go with the other comments from that dude
in alaska.....
Winston
quickly? Is the generator close to a transformer or largish
motor which tends to demag the 'field' metal?
(How'm I doing, "You"?)
--Winston
Curbie
seems from Bruce's comments, just an all round good bunch.
Curbie
Tim Jackson
> "Tim" gets it, a bit, but most cars these days have Alternators with PM
> Cores that don't ever require a Flash.... Ignition Light or not....
>
True but irrelevant. The particular generator in question obviously has
no such technology. Or are you suggesting that the OP should fit a PM
rotor to his genny? Even a small permanent magnet in the rotor to
ensure some residual field would probably cure it, but I don't recommend
it as a DIY project.
My key point was that feeding in the current through some sort of
resistance such as a light bulb allows you to excite the field safely,
running or not. The danger with directly connecting a battery is that
it is likely that the the field circuit does not normally operate at the
same voltage as the battery, and so there is a risk that either it will
overheat, or it will back feed into the regulator and damage that, or
that when generating starts (if it is running) it will pump large
currents into the battery and overheat something that way. Connecting
above the regulator and using a limited current avoids these problems.
At worst you blow the bulb.
Tim
Richard W.
"Curbie" <jim.ric...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gmbo35debvasb7f5u...@4ax.com...
> They also have enormously experienced and helpful folks with steam, it
> seems from Bruce's comments, just an all round good bunch.
>
> Curbie
>
>
Bruce is right Smokestak.com has a lot of good stuff. I like this link to
the forums best.
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/index.php
Another thing I wanted to say is that at work they build hydraulic
generators. They use baldor generator heads and usually one or two need
flashing. They us a 9 volt radio battery. They put 1 wire in the outlet. (I
don't know which side. I never paid that much attention.) Then touch the
other wire to the case. Once they see a few sparks, they remover the wires
and run the generator and plug in a light bulb. Works first time every time.
I would suggest for the novice that you go to Ebay and search for a "field
flasher". Usually there is one or two up for auction. Current auction is
item # 170331647420 . The seller name is Boskydog93.
Also I thought I would mention that my generator said to remove all loads
before shutting off the generator. Might this have something to do with a
generator not producing power?
Richard W.
harry
The advice given to you is exactly correct. It's almost like booting
up a computer. Your alternator needs them magnetic field in the field
before it can generate but this is an electromagnet that gets it's
power from the alternator.
So the alternator's not generating how can it get power?
The answer is there is a little bit of magnetism left in the field
from the last time is was running, just enough to get a little AC
which makes a little DC which boosts the AC which boosts the DC until
eventually it's up and running all out.
You can loose this "residual magnetism" as it's called and the answer
is indeed to "flash it up" with a car battery. You have to make sure
you connect the battery the right way round. If it's the wrong way,
the rectifier will put in power the "right way" an kill your residual
magnetism. It's not the end of the world, the answer is to repeat the
exercise, flashing it up with the battery connections reversed, it
should then work. Supposing that was the problem to start with!
Fred F.
thanks to Alska bruce. It sounds like you have a lot of experience.
The Sears tech is comming back out (warranty trip) and I am better
prepared to ask some questions.
Thanks again, Fred