70 mpg
Curbie
par for the Jag course and after a couple weeks the Jag repair
department called saying they where having problems isolating the
problem. Seeing that it is my only transportation, I thought I would
buy a scooter until the repair department got things sorted out and
when the car was repaired I would have backup transportation.
After a little research on the web I decided to get a cheapo Chinese
scooter because I only drive an average of 1000 miles a year and it
was intended for backup while my car is in the shop. I bought the
scooter on-line, it was shipped by truck and dropped in my driveway. I
had to charge and install the battery, bolt on mirrors and trunk,
check and tighten loose screws, bolts, fuel and vacuum lines, check
fluids, and general dealer prep stuff before firing it up, all of
which I knew going in to this from my research.
So by the time the repair department finally called with an estimate,
I was all licensed (another story), legal, and driving around. My car
is a Jag which I bought from the same place that has always done my
repairs and I've had it for 20 years. I'm used to large bills, I have
never got a repair estimate for under $1000.00 no matter what it goes
in for, so when the estimate came in at half the price a paid for the
car (complete re-wiring), I started talking with them about buying
another Jag, but after thinking about it, I only put 20,000 miles on
the one I had.
After thinking about for a while my scooter get 70mpg, goes 60mph,
insurance if $100.00 a year, I can get 6 bags of groceries in it, and
I'm have a good time driving and tinkering with it, so I decided (for
a time anyway) to uses it for my primary transportation to see if I
get sick of it. But for now, I'm having fun driving the thing around
and have put on 800 miles in 3 months (way over my yearly average).
The bottom line is, if anyone is looking for back-up transportation
and likes tinkering with stuff, these scooters may be worth looking
at, 70mpg may really come if handy when the next wave of fuel shortage
come around.
Curbie
Josepi
"Curbie" <jim.ric...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c840k5pt85s3ncfdl...@4ax.com...
Jim Wilkins
> ...
> The bottom line is, if anyone is looking for back-up transportation
> and likes tinkering with stuff, these scooters may be worth looking
> at, 70mpg may really come if handy when the next wave of fuel shortage
> come around.
> Curbie
In the 70's before I owned a house I tried using a motorcycle with
saddlebags for all transportation. It worked well for a large fraction
of my needs but not all; in New England they are almost useless in
winter (I tried anyway) and they really don't belong on the Interstate
during a strong rain storm, you can't see in the spray from a truck.
You have to consider where and how long you leave them in some parking
lots. In some places drivers are aggressive enough to challenge even
smaller SUVs, and run motorcycles off the road. In hot weather (it
reaches 100F here) they are miserable in stop-and-go traffic, you get
the hot blast from under the cars added to the sun and hot pavement. I
never rode it to a job interview that required a suit.
I could drive the Civic anywhere, any time, for any reason. I had to
think about the trip in advance on the bike.
jsw
cjt
for everything, including grocery shopping, in all weather including
snow. Eventually it was stolen. Your description rings true.
Curbie
Good points to consider all, but for $900 delivered to your doorstep
and a few stored gas cans, it may still be worth considering for some.
I don't know if I'm have more fun driving it or tinkering with it,
pulled part the Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) yesterday to
see how they work, never seen one those before.
I got my learners permit on a motorcycle while living in California in
the late 60's at the age a 15 ½, the theory back then was, that no
parent in their right mind would get on the back of a motorcycle with
their 15 year old kid who was learning to drive.
My scooter is highway legal, but I wouldn't go on I95 down here, too
much of a monkey's nest for me, but never less seem to get anywhere I
want. I kind of backed into this idea, but now seems to make some
sense to me, just thought other might find something here too.
Curbie
Josepi
"Curbie" <jim.ric...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vol1k5pjmj8hlq0j2...@4ax.com...
Jim Wilkins
> Jim,
> Good points to consider all, but for $900 delivered to your doorstep
> and a few stored gas cans, it may still be worth considering for some.
> My scooter is highway legal, but I wouldn't go on I95 down here, too
> much of a monkey's nest for me, but never less seem to get anywhere I
> want. I kind of backed into this idea, but now seems to make some
> sense to me, just thought other might find something here too.
>
> Curbie
I started small and worked up to 400cc to allow camping trips loaded
with gear. It was big enough to run long distances on the highway and
small enough to ride (carefully) down backwoods trails to explore,
fish and camp. 200cc was plenty to get me around locally. This area is
too hilly for a bike much smaller than that.
I carried a yellow rainsuit and wore it when the temperature dropped
below ~50F. They make very good windbreakers.
jsw
Martin Riddle
"Josepi" <J...@invaliid.con> wrote in message
news:Xd50n.1191$rL7...@newsfe23.iad...
Depends upon location. Most urban area drivers don't see bikes,
scooters, motorcycles until its too late.
Plus there are drivers that just turn for no reason at all. Does not
bode well for the scooterist ;)
Cheers
x
Holy cow! I put over 2000 miles on just my bicycle last year!
(The bike acts as our "second car") Chinese scooters remain a
temptation, as do "E" bikes, but it is amazing what that bit of
peddling excercise has done for my health.
>. I'm used to large bills, I have
> never got a repair estimate for under $1000.00 no matter what it goes
> in for, so when the estimate came in at half the price a paid for the
> car (complete re-wiring), I started talking with them about buying
> another Jag, but after thinking about it, I only put 20,000 miles on
> the one I had.
>
There is no reason why any reasonably new car should routinely need
to have mechanical repairs. I recently sold a Honda Civic with 80,000
miles and NO mechanical repair bills beyond routine maintenance. I
have 50,000 miles on our Accord with the same results so far. Perhaps
you might reconsider your attachment to Jags?
Vaughn
Curbie
Well the Jag was the cheapest car I owned the past 30 years, and none
of them where too reliable or cheap to maintenance. I've been putting
together a spare parts order, for me, I don't see reliability as the
issue some might, but your safety point should weight in anyone's
consideration of one of these.
Curbie
Jim Wilkins
> ....
> Depends upon location. Most urban area drivers don't see bikes,
> scooters, motorcycles until its too late.
> Plus there are drivers that just turn for no reason at all. Does not
> bode well for the scooterist ;)
>
> Cheers
We have had an excessive number of accidents recently where a driver
"didn't see" a police cruiser or a big semi or such and pulled out in
front of it. Or couldn't handle those tricky straight dry level roads
and drifted into the truck in the other lane. Someone nearly hit me
that way. I waited to swerve so I wouldn't lead them further over,
then watched the cop behind me dodge, spin around and go after them.
The town soon put a rumble strip down the middle of that road.
Try driving with one eye closed to get an idea of how bad some
people's depth perception is.
jsw
Curbie
All true, and should weight into people's decision to buy a scooter,
for me it was kind of the same thing with dangers involved with eating
food, drinking water, breathing air, having sex... life causes death.
George Carlin said "the kid that eats the most marbles dies", I'm not
suggesting that people do stupid things (wouldn't stop them anyway),
but I've never had an accident off the race course, so I think I've
handled road risks pretty well up to this point, but would certainly
be safer in a pimped out M1A1 Abrams but the fuel mileage sucks.
This isn't for everyone.
Curbie
Curbie
<kb1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I started small and worked up to 400cc to allow camping trips loaded
>with gear. It was big enough to run long distances on the highway and
>small enough to ride (carefully) down backwoods trails to explore,
>fish and camp. 200cc was plenty to get me around locally. This area is
>too hilly for a bike much smaller than that.
>
>I carried a yellow rainsuit and wore it when the temperature dropped
>below ~50F. They make very good windbreakers.
>
>jsw
Jim,
Shortly after getting the scooter I was thinking about getting a 250cc
which go 80mph, the 150cc only goes 65mph and if I went on the highway
I'd have no extra acceleration if I needed it to get out trouble,
which is the reason I don't go on the highway.
I bought the most visible color they had (Red) and like your rain
slicker idea, even though I'm a fair whether driver decreasing wind
chill while raising visibility makes good sense to me.
Thanks,
Curbie
Josepi
The danger logic is very poor. Danger is not on or off. It is an analogue
quantity. Too many of my childhood friends are dead and really f*cked up
from motorcycle accidents, unfortunately. Some were expected and some were
not. One never been on the back of one before. One ride **sigh**
Enjoy it and be careful.
"Curbie" <jim.ric...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jkt1k5l8m03ha7b8h...@4ax.com...
Josepi
the front are too often almost pulled out on. The second look seems to
register in the brain as movement though.
"Curbie" <jim.ric...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3st1k5h20q63i0tcr...@4ax.com...
Neo
scooter hits anything or if anything hits that scooter then the
scooter is going to spin out-of-control and the driver would be
thrown off the scooter and most likely killed instantaneously
when the driven hit the earth again.
Since the scooter's fuel efficiency would suffer greatly from
air resistance at speed over 35 mph - the scooters could
probably only acheive 70 mpg if it was driven between under 33 mph.
If a scooter was driven constantly at 60mph its fuel efficiency
would probably drop to about 30mpg to 35mpg due to
the wind resistance the scooter's engine would have to
overcome.
In Europe, a driver can get easily get 60 mpg (at about 45mph)
and carry 4 passengers plus six bags of groceries using a
VW Polo Bluemotion
Toyota Agoya
And they would also be highway legal (capable of 75 mph),
have a longer range, (400 miles) and be much safer than
a scooter in a collision.
If you want to be completely independent of any fuel source
supply there is a human powered metro vehicle
(vehicles that are meant to be driven under 30 mph) that requires
no fuel at all (its a zero-emission vehicle/quadra-cycle). It's
basically a modified rail pump car made in the state of Washington
called a human-car.. see...
http://www.humancar.com/overview.htm
This particular quadra cycle can be faster than other forms of
recumbent tricycles because of its unique transmission which
allows it to harness the power of four humans simulataneously
using multiple gearing ratios. However, the driver would have
to be an athlete to use it for any significant length of time.
On Jan 2, 10:40 pm, Curbie <jim.richard...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> After a little research on the web I decided to get a cheapo Chinese
> scooter because I only drive an average of 1000 miles a year and it
> was intended for backup while my car is in the shop. ...
Curbie
> Holy cow! I put over 2000 miles on just my bicycle last year!
>(The bike acts as our "second car") Chinese scooters remain a
>temptation, as do "E" bikes, but it is amazing what that bit of
>peddling excercise has done for my health.
The "E" bikes are a great thing, I know a guy who made a side business
out of selling "E" bikes to folks who got DUI's down here in Florida,
because of the no license laws. It was the first thing I considered,
just not fast enough for me.
He's got a tricked out personal one with both a hub and gear motors
that's a rocket, 40mph with no paddle assist.
> There is no reason why any reasonably new car should routinely need
>to have mechanical repairs. I recently sold a Honda Civic with 80,000
>miles and NO mechanical repair bills beyond routine maintenance. I
>have 50,000 miles on our Accord with the same results so far. Perhaps
>you might reconsider your attachment to Jags?
The Jag was a good car for me and considering how much is sat around,
I'm a little surprised I didn't have more maintenance issues than I
did, it is history now, I doubt they have Jag shingles where I want to
move, but I think we may be talking about a different class of cars.
Curbie
Curbie
in their air-bagged, seat-belted, anti-locked safety-mobiles get
T-boned and killed at a intersection when another driver wasn't paying
attention to the light. I've also seen motorcyclists riding on their
bike backwards, on one wheel, doing 70mph a lived through it! It seems
to me, life is sort of a crap-shoot and you can't change the odds by
NOT rolling the dice.
I've never seen someone on a motorcycle gabbing on their cell-phone,
fixing their make-up, eating, or tending to their baby OR someone in a
car doing the backwards wheely thing, but it seem to me there may be a
little more to safety than what you're driving.
I've kept an eye on my fuel mileage and it has been getting around
70mpg, and thinking about being completely independent of any fuel
source, I may monkey around with one of these scooter to see if I can
get them to run well on alcohol (Ethenol), I don't think peddle power
is really the thing for me.
Curbie
Curbie
population growth, either way I'll have fun before I go.
Thanks,
Curbie
Michael B
On Jan 2, 10:40 pm, Curbie <jim.richard...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Curbie
Wiring, the plastic insulation was just crumbling apart everywhere,
just shaking off as it went over bumps and would short out something.
The car ran fine for a while and the and then just died at real bad
times, after that happen a couple times just getting back from the
shop (once on the way back from the shop), I told them after what I
paid for repairs that lasted a few miles and didn't fix the problem,
they only had one more chance to get it right or I'd give someone else
the repair and money.
Anyway, like I said, it was a pretty good car considering, I didn't
like their behavior in the end, but the past is the past and after
all, I knew they were car salesman to begin with.
Curbie
Neo
> Vaughn,
>
> > Holy cow! I put over 2000 miles on just my bicycle last year!
> >(The bike acts as our "second car") Chinese scooters remain a
> >temptation, as do "E" bikes, but it is amazing what that bit of
> >peddling excercise has done for my health.
>
> The "E" bikes are a great thing, I know a guy who made a side business
> out of selling "E" bikes to folks who got DUI's down here in Florida,
> because of the no license laws. It was the first thing I considered,
> just not fast enough for me.
Since vehicles devaluate so rapidly - would not
a reliable used vehicle with lo mileage would be
a safer and functionally more useful alternative to
brand new Chinese scooter?
Jim Wilkins
> People have to weigh the risks for themselves, ...
I've been lucky and only scrunched a foot under a motorcycle, nothing
broken, not as bad as my bicycle crashes. Helmet, leathers and steel
toed boots helped.
It was really interesting to watch the change in a store clerk when a
bunch of us pulled up, all in black leather and dusty from the road,
then they found out I was actually polite and articulate in the local
language. We didn't realize we had crossed from Quebec into New
Brunswick so I addressed the clerk in French and got an awful nasty
reaction, then in English and she apologized and was very nice to us.
> I've kept an eye on my fuel mileage and it has been getting around
> 70mpg, ...>
> Curbie
I got 60 MPG from a Honda 350 twin before putting saddlebags on it,
then 50 - 55. IIRC the CB400F averaged around 50. They were at the low
end of acceptable on long trips.
jsw
Michael B
to walk away from it.
But take it easy with that scooter.
cjt
I've seen a lot of that kind of thing lately. Invariably the driver
is talking/texting on a cellphone in those instances where I've managed
to get a look. A lot of people are idiots.
nos...@nevis.com
> Going over 25 mph on a scooter would be very dangerous - if the
> scooter hits anything or if anything hits that scooter then the
> scooter is going to spin out-of-control and the driver would be
> thrown off the scooter and most likely killed instantaneously
> when the driven hit the earth again.
>
> Since the scooter's fuel efficiency would suffer greatly from
> air resistance at speed over 35 mph - the scooters could
> probably only acheive 70 mpg if it was driven between under 33 mph.
> If a scooter was driven constantly at 60mph its fuel efficiency
> would probably drop to about 30mpg to 35mpg due to
> the wind resistance the scooter's engine would have to
> overcome.
Having ridden motorcycles and scooters from 80cc on up for 40 years I
can say that's bullshit. Even large dinosaur primitive motorcycles such
as 1200cc Harley's get close to 55mpg on the highway.
>
> In Europe, a driver can get easily get 60 mpg (at about 45mph)
> and carry 4 passengers plus six bags of groceries using a
>
> VW Polo Bluemotion
> Toyota Agoya
>
> And they would also be highway legal (capable of 75 mph),
> have a longer range, (400 miles) and be much safer than
> a scooter in a collision.
None of these are available in North America, so the point is moot.
Curbie
>I've been lucky and only scrunched a foot under a motorcycle, nothing
>broken, not as bad as my bicycle crashes. Helmet, leathers and steel
>toed boots helped.
For me, this just illustrates my point that, how you approach the act
of driving is more telling of your results, than what you're driving.
>I got 60 MPG from a Honda 350 twin before putting saddlebags on it,
>then 50 - 55. IIRC the CB400F averaged around 50. They were at the low
>end of acceptable on long trips.
At this point I will wait until I get settled somewhere before I make
a decision on what vehicle I'll get next, but I think some sort of
bike will fit into the picture somewhere. As much as I think shifting
gears would help MPG, those CVTs are fascinating and simple
mechanisms.
Curbie
Curbie
Very labor-intensive and parts for that year are getting hard to find
not to mention more expensive, funny how the shingle first told me it
was junk, then offered junk it for FREE, then offered to reduce my
bill for it (the one for NOT fixing it), then offered me a little
money for it. Car salesmen!
A real nice guy who works for a company I have interests in, rebuilds
MGB's for himself and has been bugging about selling it, I paid the
bill, and sold him the car for a dollar (full disclosure). WhenI
bought it was two years old with 30K and put 21K on it, besides the
original clear coat which is lifting in places it was in perfect shape
body wise. He will fix it up and give a good home.
Curbie
Michael B
And more control on your part.
For garden-variety transport, especially in bad weather,
I suggest a Kia Rio, and a Scan-Gauge from Auto-Zone.
Or install a vacuum gauge.
Josepi
you.
"Michael B" <baug...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:70d0aa6b-d4b5-46d1...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
vaughn
<nos...@nevis.com> wrote in message news:4b416626$1...@news.x-privat.org...
>
> Having ridden motorcycles and scooters from 80cc on up for 40 years I can say
> that's bullshit. Even large dinosaur primitive motorcycles such as 1200cc
> Harley's get close to 55mpg on the highway.
>
carburetors.
Vaughn
Neo
> Neo wrote:
> > Going over 25 mph on a scooter would be very dangerous - if the
> > scooter hits anything or if anything hits that scooter then the
> > scooter is going to spin out-of-control and the driver would be
> > thrown off the scooter and most likely killed instantaneously
> > when the driven hit the earth again.
>
> > Since the scooter's fuel efficiency would suffer greatly from
> > air resistance at speed over 35 mph - the scooters could
> > probably only acheive 70 mpg if it was driven between under 33 mph.
> > If a scooter was driven constantly at 60mph its fuel efficiency
> > would probably drop to about 30mpg to 35mpg due to
> > the wind resistance the scooter's engine would have to
> > overcome.
>
> Having ridden motorcycles and scooters from 80cc on up for 40 years I
> can say that's bullshit. Even large dinosaur primitive motorcycles such
> as 1200cc Harley's get close to 55mpg on the highway.
ICE Fuel efficiency can be maximized on highway. Recently,
I got 55 mpg on the highway using a 2006 Toyota Prius
(1200miles Ohio/Pennsylvania Turnpike, avg speed 55 mph) and
I got 32 mpg on the highway using a 1990 Honda Accord LX
(1200miles Ohio/Pennsylvania Turnpike, avg speed 50mph)
however in both cases I was driving in temperatures above
60 F. When the temperature drops below 40F and I'm driving
in city stop and go traffic - my fuel efficiency drops signficantly
( the 1990 Honda Accord drops from 32mpg to 20mpg).
The fuel efficiency of motorcycles and scooter is going to
also depending on the driving conditions. Your reported
top FE experience for motorcycles is much better than
what I've heard in the washington DC metro area which
is 40-50 mpg range. Maybe its the colder weather.
Alternative sources also suggests that 45 mpg is a more
realistic number for 1200cc Harleys.
1966-1997 Harley with 1200cc gets about 36 to 49 mpg
1998-2009 Harley with 1200cc gets about 38 to 50 mpg
http://hubpages.com/hub/Motorcycle-MPG-Guide-Harley-Davidson-Big-Twins
While a scooter might get 55 mpg and it might be
able to achive speeds of upto 55 mph - it may not
accelerate, brake, or handle well enough
on the highway to safely do so. As stated earlier,
safety is not entirely in the control of the bike's
operator so even with a more capable operator
- the risk are still higher for the bike's operator than
on a enclosed motor vehicle like a car or truck.
With the exceptions being three wheeled
vehicles which totally enclose and protect
the operator like the Aptera models (which
are only sold in California) .
>
>
> > In Europe, a driver can get easily get 60 mpg (at about 45mph)
> > and carry 4 passengers plus six bags of groceries using a
>
> > VW Polo Bluemotion
> > Toyota Agoya
>
> > And they would also be highway legal (capable of 75 mph),
> > have a longer range, (400 miles) and be much safer than
> > a scooter in a collision.
>
> None of these are available in North America, so the point is moot.
True. However,
VW will be selling the Polo in the USA in 2011 and
Toyota is planning to sell a hybrid version of the Yaris in 2011
both should get up to 60 mpg if my preliminary
information is correct. However, in order to get 60mpg
both vehicles would have to operate under a kind
of computer controlled throttle economy/urban mode.
Both should also sell for less than 20,000 USD too.
Currently - the only way to 60mpg from any
ICE vehicle in the USA is via hypermiling techniques
- cars in the USA are just way too heavy
One of the reasons some Japanese and European
cars can achieve 50 to 60 mpg is because
they are much lighter in weight and can be
mated with a smaller more fuel efficient ICE.
In the UK, Axon Automotive has taken
this to the extreme and has built an extremely
light chassie for a 2 seater coupe that gets
100 mpg. See
wmbjk...@citlink.net
I had an R100RS that got about 50 on the highway, and an 1100cc Suzuki
a few years later that did substantially better even though rear tire
life was poor. I expect that newer stuff is at least a bit improved,
but whenever I hear the hogly stories I always figure it's an urban
legend designed to make wives more amenable to an insane purchase. :-)
Wayne
nos...@nevis.com
My first bike, a 65 Suzuki 80 had a 1.5 gallon gas tank, top speed 55
mph, 62 downhill with a tail wind ;~).I filled it up once a week and
drove to school all week ( 28 mile round trip per day) by Friday night
I'd have to flip on the reserve. I'd have to drive it wide open to keep
up with traffic. My 1966 250 Ducati single, primitive carb and all
manages 68 mpg on the highway. Here's a link to high gas mileage bikes.
http://hubpages.com/hub/MPG-Guide-The-700-Top-Selling-Motorcycles
harry k
I have 50% vision in one eye (construction accident). I commonly
drive with an eye patch in daylight. For driving, depth perception
with one eye is no different than with two. My eye doc told me that -
said that deph perception only functions at close range. I didn't
believe it but it is true. Try it yourself. Close one eye, look at
something more than 20 ft away and you will see you can accurately
guage the distance. Now at short range, such as parking, it is a real
problem. I cannot tell within a couple feet how close my car is to an
obstacle.
Harry K
nos...@nevis.com
With cars gas mileage is a matter of gearing, streamlining and how heavy
your foot is. During the summer I can coax 53 mpg out of my 99 saturn at
55mph drafting tractor trailers, which is the perfect speed for it's
gearing (1800 rpm @55mph). City driving is another matter no matter what
you drive, scooter or car, but a scooter is going to get much better
mileage than you claim on the highway (30-35mpg).
> The fuel efficiency of motorcycles and scooter is going to
> also depending on the driving conditions. Your reported
> top FE experience for motorcycles is much better than
> what I've heard in the washington DC metro area which
> is 40-50 mpg range. Maybe its the colder weather.
> Alternative sources also suggests that 45 mpg is a more
> realistic number for 1200cc Harleys.
>
> 1966-1997 Harley with 1200cc gets about 36 to 49 mpg
> 1998-2009 Harley with 1200cc gets about 38 to 50 mpg
> http://hubpages.com/hub/Motorcycle-MPG-Guide-Harley-Davidson-Big-Twins
Here's were I got my figures:
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/MotorcycleFuelEconomyGuide/Harley-Davidson.htm
>
> While a scooter might get 55 mpg and it might be
> able to achive speeds of upto 55 mph - it may not
> accelerate, brake, or handle well enough
> on the highway to safely do so.
It's a matter of power to weight ratio, a 240lb scooter with
10 HP is 24 lb per horsepower, my Saturn weights 2400lbs and
has 100 HP, the same power to weight ratio. In town a scooter would have
no problem keeping up with traffic, few people are going to use one for
anything other than short trips anyway and off major highways.
Which at that weight is likely no safer than a scooter or motorcycle ;~)
m...@privacy.net
>and a Scan-Gauge from Auto-Zone.
How well has that ScanGuage been working for you?
What data do you monitor and how has it benefited you?
wmbjk...@citlink.net
I have one as well, and I really like it. I leave the main display set
on instantaneous mpg, average mpg since last startup, average since
fill-up, and speed. The main benefit for me is understanding what's
going on with mileage, which varies from about 30 on the highway to
about 7 going up a steep grade at slow speed in 4WD. It provides a
quick way to grab fault codes, which would be helpful to know on a
trip or before calling for service.
Wayne
m...@privacy.net
>>How well has that ScanGuage been working for you?
>>
>>What data do you monitor and how has it benefited you?
>
>I have one as well, and I really like it. I leave the main display set
Which model scanguage did you buy?
Michael B
it's the Scan-Gauge 2. And I had to give them its stock
number, because the staff didn't even know about it.
I mainly watched instantaneous MPG while I learned
the quirks of my "new" Saturn Ion 5 speed. The neatest
part was in letting off an incredibly small amount on the
gas and seeing nearly 5 MPG improvement on the gauge.
No surprise, without jackrabbiting it's best to get out of
the lower gears, but there really needs to be a sixth gear.
But I knew that from during my days with a 64 VW Beetle.
On Jan 4, 1:44 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:
ne...@jecarter.us
I have an OBDII reader ($28US) and some PC software (both free and
paid) that I use on an old laptop. The biggest value to me is knowing
what conditions affect mileage and how best to manually shift the
automatic transmission - the OEM computer is relatively stupid and
very slow to respond - as in waiting so long to downshift on a long
grade that it must go down two gears instead of one. Waiting that
long to down shift means the engine is kicked up to 5500RPM to
maintain highway speed which is not fuel efficient - nor is it
particularly kind to the engine. A manual downshift from 4 to 3 when
the engine load increases audibly works fine.
I'm considering building a downshift unit that does the 4->3 shift
(solenoid to kick the shift lever to the side) when road speed is
above 50mph and the engine load increases by 10% or so. When engine
load decreases for more than 60 seconds, a solenoid on the other side
would kick the shift lever back to drive. I'm confident that my
design can respond within a second or so, instead of the 5 seconds the
OEM computer requires.
The transmission lockup at lower speeds only releases when the road
speed drops to somewhere near 20MPH, so you wind up braking against
the engine's momentum (remember that the return to idle speedl is
computer controlled to reduce pollution - it doesn't happen
immediately when you take your foot off the gas pedal). Hitting the
brakes *should* release the lockup mechanism at speeds below 35MPH.
John
Michael B
freewheel down a hill? Or at a stop?
Josepi
"harry k" <turnk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:052894cc-321b-4034...@e27g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Josepi
LOL
<nos...@nevis.com> wrote in message news:4b42110b$1...@news.x-privat.org...
Neo wrote:
It's a matter of power to weight ratio, a 240lb scooter with
10 HP is 24 lb per horsepower, my Saturn weights 2400lbs and
has 100 HP, the same power to weight ratio. In town a scooter would have
no problem keeping up with traffic, few people are going to use one for
anything other than short trips anyway and off major highways.
Which at that weight is likely no safer than a scooter or motorcycle ;~)
nos...@nevis.com
You'll find that with Saturn fours, I get my best gas mileage by keeping
shifts under 2000rpm, especially around town. Over 55 mph with stock
gearing mine really needs another gear.....
Neo
> So a fat guy has no gas economy on a scooter.
> LOL
>
> Neo wrote:
>
> It's a matter of power to weight ratio, a 240lb scooter with
> 10 HP is 24 lb per horsepower, my Saturn weights 2400lbs and
> has 100 HP, the same power to weight ratio. In town a scooter would have
> no problem keeping up with traffic, few people are going to use one for
> anything other than short trips anyway and off major highways.
>
> Which at that weight is likely no safer than a scooter or motorcycle ;~)
I agree that a scooter is would have no problem in a
urban driving environment - it would also have a parking
and manueverablity advantage over the larger cars and
trucks as well. Its disadvantage would be protection
from the weather and safety. Certain metro-only cars
like ones made in Inda or China (e.g. Reva, Flybo)
might be a better fit than a scooter if weather or cargo
capacity was a primary need/mission. If cargo capacity
is not a problem and the operator is physically fit -
a regular bicycle might be a better fit in an urban
environment than a scooter.
With a ICE vehicle the power transfer efficency is not just
a matter of power to weight ratio but also the ICE transmission
efficiency (power to transfer ratio). for a particular speed which
is why very skilled drivers can optimize energy efficiency
with a manual transmission and why a properly tuned
transmissions with additional drive gears (or a CVT) has
better fuel efficiency than the a vehicle with less drive
gears. Each vehicle is designed with a maximum payload
in addition to its curb weight which the ICE is designed
to efficiently handle - that maximum payload includes the
weight of the operator/driver - so a 400 lb scooter operator
take more fuel to move than a 100 lb scooter operater
(with no other payload) - not to mention that a skinny
operator might have less wind resistance at higher speed.
Once the kinetic energy of the ICE moves the tires - the
vehicle has wind resistance and the tire's friction/rolling
resistance of the tires to deal with. The wind resistance
is a function of wind surface and that wind's surface
drag coefficient. Most scooters and motorcycles have
very little wind surface but a high wind surface drag
coefficient. Most four wheeled vehicles like trucks
have a much larger wind surface but a lower wind
surface drag coefficient. While one passenger/driver
motorize bikes have the potential for the lowest overall
wind resistance and probably the highest fuel efficiency
that commercial potential has not been realized.
vaughn
"Neo" <residualse...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ad0f4ea6-ff26-46a9...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> While one passenger/driver
>motorize bikes have the potential for the lowest overall
>wind resistance and probably the highest fuel efficiency
>that commercial potential has not been realized.
While I am currently a fan of the plain 'ole bicycle, e-bikes are looking better
and better, especially for commutes up to 10 miles or so.
Vaughn
nos...@nevis.com
The fact remains that there are no 70+ mpg cars in the USA, and there
are no cars that sell for anywhere near a scooter does. As most scooters
are driven in urban settings under 40mph wind resistance isn't a problem.
For what the original poster needed transportation for the scooter fit,
even if you had a car you'd cut your gas consumption considerably by
taking the scooter when weather permitted. Personally I'd go with an
electric scooter and a small pv set up as I drive less than five miles a
day and pay nothing for gas at all.
Neo
> Good choices.
> And more control on your part.
>
> For garden-variety transport, especially in bad weather,
> I suggest a Kia Rio, and a Scan-Gauge from Auto-Zone.
> Or install a vacuum gauge.
Scan-Gauge II needs a car with a OBD-II connector
under the dashboard ( usually found on cars built after 1997)
it will give instanteous MPG and RPMs which can help
the driver put the least load on the ICE while getting
the vehicle to go the maximum distance. The Kia
Rio is second lowest curb weight car in the USA market
today - the car with the lowest curb weight on sale
in the USA is the Toyota Yaris (by about 100 pounds
or so - but the Yaris is more expensive than the Kia Rio
and the Kia Rio5 version has a larger max cargo bay
than the Yaris 5dr/HB version).
> On Jan 4, 1:00 am, Curbie <jim.richard...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > bill, and sold him the car for a dollar (full disclosure). WhenI
> > bought it was two years old with 30K and put 21K on it, besides the
> > original clear coat which is lifting in places it was in perfect shape
> > body wise. He will fix it up and give a good home.
>
> > Curbie - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Neo
> Neo wrote:
> > In the UK, Axon Automotive has taken
> > this to the extreme and has built an extremely
> > light chassie for a 2 seater coupe that gets
> > 100 mpg. See
>
> >http://www.axonautomotive.com/index.html
>
> Which at that weight is likely no safer than a scooter or motorcycle
The Axon Automotive vehicle is designed
around patented carbonfiber roll cage frame
which should protects the driver during impact
(the carbonfiber roll cage frame would act like
a racing car's steel roll cage frame ).
If the driver is strapped in the roll cage would
protect the driver - I would venture to guest
that the main impact danger to a strapped in
driver would be internal organ damage from
the shock of the initial impact and the posiblity
of the vehicle going up in flames ( it depends
on how heat resistance the Axon Automotive
vehicle is if the ICE start burning up )
Neo
It is true there are no 70+ mpg cars in the USA, and there
are no cars at the same price point as a scooter (electric or gas).
If a scooter is driven under 40 mph, they should be able to
achieve FE over 50 mpg.
In the next decade, the USA will likely eventually follow
the current global market trend of using urban/metro-only
vehicles like India's Reva. Metro only vehicles will take
a good slice ouf to scooter-motorcycle-car urban market.
Metro only four wheeled vehicles will get a much higher
FE than car, cost much less than a regular car, while
providing a higher level of functionality than a two wheel
vehicles. I expect Metro only cars will be first introduced
in the USA as urban-use-only taxis/car rental service.
vaughn
>The Kia Rio is second lowest curb weight car in the USA market
>today - the car with the lowest curb weight on sale in the USA is the Toyota
>Yaris (by about 100 pounds
>or so - but the Yaris is more expensive than the Kia Rio and the Kia Rio5
>version has a larger max cargo bay
>than the Yaris 5dr/HB version).
I actually have a bit of respect for Kia. They serve the bottom of the new-car
market, yet have maintained their 10 year/100,000 mile warranty. Of course,
their warranty repair service is like "HMO for your car" but at least the price
is right! Myself, I am happier with Honda or Toyota, but my father bought a Kia
& it is all the car he will ever need!
Vaughn
wmbjk...@citlink.net
harry k
> I wonder how they get those "hole-in-ones".
>
So you didn't even try the test? What part of being able to
accurately guage distance with one eye did you miss?
Harry K
Josepi
Again: "How do the golfers get those hole-in-ones" if there is no depth
perception after 20 feet of distance. I haven't seen the measuring tapes
out.
Your statement is physically impossible with only one eye. You are imagining
the depth perception based on your memory of object sizing. It's just crap.
The science centres typically have depth perception challenges that
disproves your theory.
"harry k" <turnk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:87652c4d-ce44-4d44...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Josepi
set of those rechargable batteries you would be replacing.
Lots of fun though.
<nos...@nevis.com> wrote in message news:4b4338bc$1...@news.x-privat.org...
ne...@jecarter.us
<baug...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>But how about causing it to kick out completely and
>freewheel down a hill? Or at a stop?
>
While possible, I choose to not have a semi-autonomous device putting
the transmission in neutral. An unexpected 4->3 or 3->4 shift might
be disconcerting to another driver, but does not require any action on
the driver's part to maintain driveability. With a neutral coast
option on downgrades, some drivers would stay on the brakes
continuously on a long downgrade, leading to loss of braking from
overheating.
(Have you ever driven the western route through Virginia and North
Carolina? There are sections of road with 4 runaway truck ramps on a
single long downhill segment.)
John
nos...@nevis.com
I've a bike as well, but there's days I'd rather ride than peddle, and
I'd rather have transportation not controlled by the whims of people who
don't like us very much ;~)Who knows what grid power is going to cost in
five years when oil goes through the roof.....
Bob F
I was considering buying one of their vans used, but the dealer told me they
sold no factory shop manual for it. I consider this a major consideration in any
vehicle purchase.
Josepi
through the roof.
Or wait? Maybe the fad will be over!
<nos...@nevis.com> wrote in message news:4b438a14$1...@news.x-privat.org...
Neo
The Axon 8080 reportedly get 100 mpg using Imperial gallons
which is slightly more than a US gallon - so the Axon 8080
fuel efficiency is 83 mpg which when converted to U.S. gallons.
The Axon 8080's carbon fiber roll cage would probably provide
good front and rear collision protection but it would not provide
much is side impact protection.
Scott
<J...@invaliid.con> wrote:
>You didn't answer my question.
>
>Again: "How do the golfers get those hole-in-ones" if there is no depth
>perception after 20 feet of distance. I haven't seen the measuring tapes
>out.
Do you know any golfers that can hit a hole-in-one, every single time, on a
hole they've never played before? Or every single time on a hole they've
played a thousand times? If not, your argument is void.
Diminution of differential binocular vision with distance can be shown with
simple math. I don't know the cutoff angle -- not my field of expertise --
but I wager it's closer than you think.
>Your statement is physically impossible with only one eye. You are imagining
>the depth perception based on your memory of object sizing. It's just crap.
>The science centres typically have depth perception challenges that
>disproves your theory.
I had partial vision loss in one eye for a long time (regained with surgery
a few years ago, yay). You can get a sense of distance using only one eye,
all you do is bob your head back and forth a little so that you get two
viewing angles on the same object. Sense of depth isn't quite as good as
true binocular vision, but it's much better than none.
nos...@nevis.com
> Who know what those batteries will cost when alternative energy products go
> through the roof.
And maybe the sun will burn out, or a tidal wave will engulf the
world... who gives a shit. As long as it lasts it cost nothing to drive,
enjoy it will it lasts. As far as batteries go any deep cycle battery
will work.
>
> Or wait? Maybe the fad will be over!
High mileage vehicles are not a fad, and will be the reality if you wish
to drive anything other than a bicycle.
Josepi
your head up your ass.
<nos...@nevis.com> wrote in message news:4b43ee3c$1...@news.x-privat.org...
harry k
> You didn't answer my question.
>
> Again: "How do the golfers get those hole-in-ones" if there is no depth
> perception after 20 feet of distance. I haven't seen the measuring tapes
> out.
>
> Your statement is physically impossible with only one eye. You are imagining
> the depth perception based on your memory of object sizing. It's just crap.
> The science centres typically have depth perception challenges that
> disproves your theory.
>
>
> news:87652c4d-ce44-4d44...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> So you didn't even try the test? What part of being able to
> accurately guage distance with one eye did you miss?
>
> Harry K
>
> On Jan 4, 4:27 pm, "Josepi" <J...@invaliid.con> wrote:
> I wonder how they get those "hole-in-ones".
>
> "harry k" <turnkey4...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:052894cc-321b-4034...@e27g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> I have 50% vision in one eye (construction accident). I commonly
> drive with an eye patch in daylight. For driving, depth perception
> with one eye is no different than with two. My eye doc told me that -
> said that deph perception only functions at close range. I didn't
> believe it but it is true. Try it yourself. Close one eye, look at
> something more than 20 ft away and you will see you can accurately
> guage the distance. Now at short range, such as parking, it is a real
> problem. I cannot tell within a couple feet how close my car is to an
> obstacle.
>
> Harry K
The question was an example of a person displaying his stubborn
insistance that he knows he is right without tryign a simple test.
I'll take the word of a eye surgeon over someone posting on the
internet any day. I'll also stack up my personal experience against
someone who won't even step out the door and close one eye.
Harry K
JERD
Harry K
I can add an interesting example:
I had the sight completely ruined in one eye at the age of 9 as the result
of being hit directly on the eye-ball with an object that someone was
swinging around.
Some years later I applied for a private pilot's licence and was told that I
had no hope as landing an airplane required perfect distance perception. I
took the regulator 'on' and after many hours of take off and landings with a
Government flight 'tester' sitting next to me I was permitted to continue
with my licence which I obtained.
After the accident, and many years later, my eye specialist informed me that
my brain has learnt to compensate for the missing vision in one eye.
I enjoyed flying that much I built my own 747-400 flight simulator.
http://www.flightsimulatorandhobbies.com/
JERD
nos...@nevis.com
> You totally miss the point. They are not free, no matter how far you stick
> your head up your ass.
The point is once it's paid for, other than regular maintenance, yes it
is free. No gas, no road tax, batteries charged by existing PV. BTW
battery packs are under $200.00, the equivalent of two tanks of gas in
Canada.
m...@privacy.net
>Scan-Gauge II needs a car with a OBD-II connector
>under the dashboard ( usually found on cars built after 1997)
>it will give instanteous MPG and RPMs which can help
>the driver put the least load on the ICE while getting
>the vehicle to go the maximum distance. The Kia
>Rio is second lowest curb weight car in the USA market
>today - the car with the lowest curb weight on sale
>in the USA is the Toyota Yaris (by about 100 pounds
>or so - but the Yaris is more expensive than the Kia Rio
>and the Kia Rio5 version has a larger max cargo bay
>than the Yaris 5dr/HB version).
Excellent logic! Thanks for sharing!
m...@privacy.net
>The Kia
>Rio is second lowest curb weight car in the USA market
what abt the new Kia Soul's weight?
m...@privacy.net
>>>Which model scanguage did you buy?
>
>Scangauge II. My car is an '08.
>
>Wayne
OK thanks
I have a 2000 Mazda Protege and have been thinking abt
a scnguage for awhile now
My question is this..... do you think a scanguage can
PAY for itself by giving the operator the info needed
to get better gas mileage etc?
harry
Well there willl be no need for oil/air filters & oil changes. There
will still be need for brake and suspension maintenance though this
will be small.
The big question is about batteries, cost, lifespan and charging
times.
What I have been able to learn on this topic is fairly depressing.
Josepi
measurement. Your perception is what is in question.
You still didn't answer my simple question.
With no depth perception further than 20 feet how do the golfers hit the
ball accurately onto the green?
All your stories are an example of a person displaying his stubborn
insistance that he knows he is right without answering a simple question.
"harry k" <turnk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8a6c43a3-c7ee-4a80...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
vaughn
<m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:f3t7k5p8i6nmcgh87...@4ax.com...
Nearly 200 pounds heavier that the Rio; 2560 compared to 2365 for the Rio.
Neither of them get stellar fuel economy; 28 MPG (combined) compared to 30 for
the Rio.
Vaughn
wmbjk...@citlink.net
No, it's unlikely to pay for itself on mileage savings alone. But if
the code reading function saves you a single trip to the dealer, or
prevents him from gouging you for work that wasn't required... Anyway,
you should be comparing it to the cost of your cd player or whatever.
How much is that saving you? :-)
BTW, I carry a laptop with an Autoenginuity hookup and IIRC, 6000
pages of factory shop manual (on disc) at all times. But I still like
the scangauge.
Wayne
harry k
> Your "Test" is a crock based on your perception and has no scientific
> measurement. Your perception is what is in question.
>
> You still didn't answer my simple question.
>
> With no depth perception further than 20 feet how do the golfers hit the
> ball accurately onto the green?
>
> All your stories are an example of a person displaying his stubborn
> insistance that he knows he is right without answering a simple question.
>
>
> news:8a6c43a3-c7ee-4a80...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>
> The question was an example of a person displaying his stubborn
> insistance that he knows he is right without tryign a simple test.
>
> I'll take the word of a eye surgeon over someone posting on the
> internet any day. I'll also stack up my personal experience against
> someone who won't even step out the door and close one eye.
>
> Harry K
Since you can't seem to read a simple sentence. Golfers do not gauge
the distance to inches, not even feet. Check with any experienced
hunter and they will tell you they can't measure that close either.
That is why they use range finders (they are banned on golf courses
IIANM).
Again, my eye doctor trumps your refusal to even try it out.
Harry K
nos...@nevis.com
Batteries packs for the scooter I'm looking at are $185.00, hardly a
major expense. With two battery packs the charge times are not much an
issue foe me either, considering I drive less than five miles a day.
Josepi
be, if mainstream technology.
Have you considered the extra food you would eat to maintain your body
weight and the medical bills from the extra wear and tear on your body from
exposing yourself to UV and vehicular traffic?
<nos...@nevis.com> wrote in message news:4b44...@news.x-privat.org...
harry wrote:
Batteries packs for the scooter I'm looking at are $185.00, hardly a
major expense. With two battery packs the charge times are not much an
issue foe me either, considering I drive less than five miles a day.
nos...@nevis.com
> Maybe cheaper, but not free. The smaller the vehicle, the cheaper it should
> be, if mainstream technology.
>
> Have you considered the extra food you would eat to maintain your body
> weight and the medical bills from the extra wear and tear on your body from
> exposing yourself to UV and vehicular traffic?
I will not require any more food than driving a car, I'd probably lose
weight because you can't ride a scooter or motorcycle and eat at the
same time like is possible in a car ;~) I ride with leathers, no exposed
skin mate, hence no UV. As for vehicles, I've only ever been in two
accidents both times I was in a car, in 40 years of riding never had an
accident. I was trained how to ride by my father, a former motorcycle
policeman.
Bruce in alaska
"vaughn" <vaughnsimo...@gmail.FAKE.com> wrote:
If I was in the market for a High MPG vehicle, I would be looking for
something on this order....
http://www.pdxmini.com/inventory/pdxminitruck2a.htm
These little 4X4 trucks are perfect for running around the woods, or in
snow country. They weigh next to nothing, and have traction, up the
gazoo. Small engines, and light weight, make them 50+ MPG capable
and they can HAUL a pile of junk, all while keeping you cozy and warm
in the cab... cheap as well....
To Bad I just bought a Rhino 660 to do the Job... or I would have gotten
one of these, for $3K less money.... Oh well, the Rhino 660 will be a
nicer ride, as long as you can stand the outdoors weather.....
--
Bruce in alaska
add <path> after <fast> to reply
m...@privacy.net
>> what abt the new Kia Soul's weight?
>
>Nearly 200 pounds heavier that the Rio; 2560 compared to 2365 for the Rio.
>Neither of them get stellar fuel economy; 28 MPG (combined) compared to 30 for
>the Rio.
OK... but is 200 lbs enough to make much diff in fuel
economy?
Just curious how that weight/efficiency curve
looks..... I am engineering student
m...@privacy.net
>If I was in the market for a High MPG vehicle, I would be looking for
>something on this order....
>http://www.pdxmini.com/inventory/pdxminitruck2a.htm
agree
but are these vehicles street legal in the US and state
of Missouri?
m...@privacy.net
>Have you considered the extra food you would eat to maintain your body
>weight and the medical bills from the extra wear and tear on your body from
>exposing yourself to UV and vehicular traffic?
You got to be kidding huh?!!!
HAHAHA
You are a troll
Michael B
I got the Scan Gauge because of an erratic
"check engine" light that the dealership said
was a glitch that could be ignored. Next time
it shows up, I'll need to check for that error code
and decide if it needs to be reset.
ne...@jecarter.us
Probably more noticeable in stop & go driving, since the additional
weight has to be brought up to speed.
Apparently the major manufacturers think a few pounds is important:
Toyota advertises a "built-in bedliner" on some of their pickups - but
what they really mean is "we replaced the metal bed with a plastic
one".
My 2008 Tacoma (4 cyl, 4 speed automatic) does about 20-21 city and
26-27 highway (with improvement as you drop below 65mph). The Tacoma
could use a 5 or 6 speed automatic - it could get another 2-3 mpg both
city and highway with proper axle and transmission ratios. My
personal vehicle had been a 4 cylinder with a 4 or 5 speed manual
transmission for 25+ years until this purchase - the automatic is a
concession to the aging of my body (and the hardware in my back).
John
Josepi
disorder...LOL
<nos...@nevis.com> wrote in message news:4b44f248$1...@news.x-privat.org...
harry
> Maybe cheaper, but not free. The smaller the vehicle, the cheaper it should
> be, if mainstream technology.
>
> Have you considered the extra food you would eat to maintain your body
> weight and the medical bills from the extra wear and tear on your body from
> exposing yourself to UV and vehicular traffic?
>
> harry wrote:
>
> Batteries packs for the scooter I'm looking at are $185.00, hardly a
> major expense. With two battery packs the charge times are not much an
> issue foe me either, considering I drive less than five miles a day.
>
> On 6 Jan, 13:08, nos...@nevis.com wrote:
> The point is once it's paid for, other than regular maintenance, yes it
> is free. No gas, no road tax, batteries charged by existing PV. BTW
> battery packs are under $200.00, the equivalent of two tanks of gas in
> Canada.
>
> Josepi wrote:
>
> You totally miss the point. They are not free, no matter how far you stick
> your head up your ass.
Some of these batteries only charge up around one hundred times. There
is significant deterioration in their capacity as they age.
It's one thing to charge a small battery with a PV panel when you get
to larger ones you need very large panels costing $K. The PV panels
deteriorate too.
As for cars, if you travel more than twenty or thirty miles ist
becomes impossible to recharge overnight from a standard domestic
power outlet.
Michael B
econobox, no A/C, no radio. But when we drove
to Ashville, NC. from Lexington, KY, the following
year, we got 59.13 MPG. Same pump in Lexington,
same tilt to the car, same topping off, etc.
But I had learned to drive it with a dash-mounted
"mileage monitor" vacuum gauge.
That car was a sweetheart when it came to being
tested at the local VET (vehicle emissions testing).
But alas, it's gone after over a quarter million miles,
the metal-eating termites got the best of it.
Really wish the car makers had stayed in that
direction, instead of taking a popular car and adding
"stuff" to it.
On Jan 6, 6:41 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:
Josepi
Manufacturers ahve 20, 25 year, and longer warranties against power output
deterioration, they are so sure this hasn't happened.
"harry" <susan.a...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:1b05a7df-438d-41e3...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Jim Wilkins
> Show us examples of deterioration.
>
> Manufacturers ahve 20, 25 year, and longer warranties against power output
> deterioration, they are so sure this hasn't happened.
Or they will reorganize and not have to honor the warranty.
Josepi
Try to stay up with things.
"Jim Wilkins" <kb1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:711f6115-f092-42fc...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Neo
I can not believe I overlooked this!!! The lightest
car in the USA is not the 2009/2010 Toyota Yaris
but the 2009 Smart Fortwo (Pure 1.0L 3cyl 5AM)
whose curb weighs is only 1808lbs compared to
the 2010 Toyota Yaris which is 2340lbs. A
lighter curb weight by itself is not an absolute
energy efficiency advantage though. For example,
the 2009 Fiat Panda 1.1 has a curb weight atleast
100lbs more than the Smart Fortwo but it get
better mileage than a Smart ForTwo using a regular
gas engine and if you use a diesel engine its
mpg figures are comparable to a 2010 Prius!.
Yeah - its not available in the USA but it shows
how fuel efficent a regular ICE production car
could be. <sigh>
On Jan 5, 8:05 am, Neo <residualselfimage1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 4, 4:17 am, Michael B <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > Good choices.
> > And more control on your part.
>
> > For garden-variety transport, especially in bad weather,
> > I suggest a Kia Rio, and a Scan-Gauge from Auto-Zone.
> > Or install a vacuum gauge.
>
> Scan-Gauge II needs a car with a OBD-II connector
> under the dashboard ( usually found on cars built after 1997)
> it will give instanteous MPG and RPMs which can help
> the driver put the least load on the ICE while getting
> the vehicle to go the maximum distance. The Kia
> Rio is second lowest curb weight car in the USA market
Josepi
they cannot pass. Weitgh would imply more metal and strength of the box,
usually. I did say **imply** LOL
I wonder what the old Mini Minor came in at. Not the new monsters that are
twice the size and weight (I am sure)
"Neo" <residualse...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e0fc9a88-b5e0-43d3...@r14g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
hubops
>
>I wonder what the old Mini Minor came in at. Not the new monsters that are
>twice the size and weight (I am sure)
About 600 kg according to this site.
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/default.aspx?carID=6475&i=2#menu
About 725 kg for the VW Beetle.
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/default.aspx?carID=12213&i=2#menu
John T.
Bruce Richmond
> On Jan 4, 7:31 pm, "Josepi" <J...@invaliid.con> wrote:
>
> > So a fat guy has no gas economy on a scooter.
> > LOL
>
> > <nos...@nevis.com> wrote in messagenews:4b42110b$1...@news.x-privat.org...
> > Neo wrote:
>
> > It's a matter of power to weight ratio, a 240lb scooter with
> > 10 HP is 24 lb per horsepower, my Saturn weights 2400lbs and
> > has 100 HP, the same power to weight ratio. In town a scooter would have
> > no problem keeping up with traffic, few people are going to use one for
> > anything other than short trips anyway and off major highways.
>
> > Which at that weight is likely no safer than a scooter or motorcycle ;~)
>
> I agree that a scooter is would have no problem in a
> urban driving environment - it would also have a parking
> and manueverablity advantage over the larger cars and
> trucks as well. Its disadvantage would be protection
> from the weather and safety. Certain metro-only cars
> like ones made in Inda or China (e.g. Reva, Flybo)
> might be a better fit than a scooter if weather or cargo
> capacity was a primary need/mission. If cargo capacity
> is not a problem and the operator is physically fit -
> a regular bicycle might be a better fit in an urban
> environment than a scooter.
>
> With a ICE vehicle the power transfer efficency is not just
> a matter of power to weight ratio but also the ICE transmission
> efficiency (power to transfer ratio). for a particular speed which
> is why very skilled drivers can optimize energy efficiency
> with a manual transmission and why a properly tuned
> transmissions with additional drive gears (or a CVT) has
> better fuel efficiency than the a vehicle with less drive
> gears. Each vehicle is designed with a maximum payload
> in addition to its curb weight which the ICE is designed
> to efficiently handle - that maximum payload includes the
> weight of the operator/driver - so a 400 lb scooter operator
> take more fuel to move than a 100 lb scooter operater
> (with no other payload) - not to mention that a skinny
> operator might have less wind resistance at higher speed.
Your ideas on the effects of weight on fuel economy need some
revision. Driving down the highway at near constant speed added
weight has almost no effect on fuel mileage. It does take more fuel
to accelerate, but much of that energy can be recovered by a hybrid
with regenerative braking.
Recently I purchased two ton of coal from a store near where I work,
11 miles from home. Rather than pay them to deliver it to my home, or
borrow a truck and make a special trip myself, I just loaded 800 lbs
into my car each day for five days. That way I figured the only cost
for transport would be the additional fuel used for my trip home as
compared to not having the coal in the car. The car happen to be a
2001 Prius that has a readout for instantaneous and average fuel
milage. It also has regenerative braking. Turned out that I got 52
mpg, about the same as I get without the extra 800 lbs. The main
difference was that acceleration was sluggish due to the extra
weight. The trip was mostly on level roads with a few gentle hills.
http://nepacrossroads.com/download/file.php?id=16495&mode=view
Before anyone gives me grief about hauling 800 lbs of coal in the car,
just think of it as four two hundred pound passengers :)
The other day I tried keeping the speed down around 40 to 50 mph for a
40 mile trip over secondary roads. The Prius averaged 60 mpg. I have
several motorcycles. The one that gets the best mileage is a 1981 GPZ
550 Kawasaki. At 55 mph it gets 55 mpg. This 1972 BMW 750 only gets
about 15 mpg
http://nepacrossroads.com/download/file.php?id=16495&mode=view
But somehow that doesn't bother me a bit :) That's me driving 66. We
took 3rd in the championship last year.
> Once the kinetic energy of the ICE moves the tires - the
> vehicle has wind resistance and the tire's friction/rolling
> resistance of the tires to deal with. The wind resistance
> is a function of wind surface and that wind's surface
> drag coefficient. Most scooters and motorcycles have
> very little wind surface but a high wind surface drag
> coefficient. Most four wheeled vehicles like trucks
> have a much larger wind surface but a lower wind
> surface drag coefficient. While one passenger/driver
> motorize bikes have the potential for the lowest overall
> wind resistance and probably the highest fuel efficiency
> that commercial potential has not been realized.
Bruce Richmond
> "Josepi" <J...@invaliid.con> wrote in message
>
> news:Xd50n.1191$rL7...@newsfe23.iad...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Great idea ecology wise but not too good safety wise or reliability
> > wise.
>
> > "Curbie" <jim.richard...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:vol1k5pjmj8hlq0j2...@4ax.com...
> > Jim,
>
> > Good points to consider all, but for $900 delivered to your doorstep
> > and a few stored gas cans, it may still be worth considering for some.
> > I don't know if I'm have more fun driving it or tinkering with it,
> > pulled part the Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) yesterday to
> > see how they work, never seen one those before.
>
> > I got my learners permit on a motorcycle while living in California in
> > the late 60's at the age a 15 , the theory back then was, that no
> > parent in their right mind would get on the back of a motorcycle with
> > their 15 year old kid who was learning to drive.
>
> > My scooter is highway legal, but I wouldn't go on I95 down here, too
> > much of a monkey's nest for me, but never less seem to get anywhere I
> > want. I kind of backed into this idea, but now seems to make some
> > sense to me, just thought other might find something here too.
>
> > Curbie
>
> Depends upon location. Most urban area drivers don't see bikes,
> scooters, motorcycles until its too late.
> Plus there are drivers that just turn for no reason at all. Does not
> bode well for the scooterist ;)
>
> Cheers- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
My advice to all motorcyclists is to consider yourself invisible.
That way there is no reason to be surprised when others don't see you.
Neo
energy expended by a motor vehicle is used to overcome wind
resistance. Your Prius is about 3200lbs so adding 800lbs of
payload is is adding about 25% of extra weight to the Prius
which should be within its designed performance. I personally
go about 55mpg on a 2006 Prius on a long trip from Washington
DC to Grand Rapids Michigan - my mileage would have
been better if I had not sped up to 70mph in Michigan but
almost all the vehicles on the super highway in Michigan
are going at 70 to 80 mph there. However, while I was in
Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Ohio I drove about 55 mph
(I believe I could have gotten 60mph if I stuck to 55mph
all the way) .
Question: Does a motorcycle wind cowls help with either
performance or fuel efficiency? If so how much?
> > that commercial potential has not been realized.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Josepi
I find it hard to believe you could meter, accurately, the mileage over a 40
mile long trip. The consumption would be less than 2/3 US gal. I trust you
have a fluid meter in your gas line, your batteries shut off and a precision
level on your gas tank.
"Bruce Richmond" <bsr...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:0816c3e3-abfa-4452...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
vaughn
>Question: Does a motorcycle wind cowls help with either
>performance or fuel efficiency? If so how much?
It depends! A properly designed full faring can certainly reduce air drag and
increase performance. On the other hand, many years ago I put a handlebar
fairing with a windhield on my 1965 BMW. It noticably decreased performance,
but I kept it because it increased my comfort and seemed to help the 4-wheel
drivers spot me.
Vaughn
Bruce Richmond
> After 45mph - when driving at a constant speed 50% of all the
> energy expended by a motor vehicle is used to overcome wind
> resistance. Your Prius is about 3200lbs so adding 800lbs of
> payload is is adding about 25% of extra weight to the Prius
> which should be within its designed performance.
You're missing the point. The additional weight requires almost no
additional power to keep moving at a constant speed, especially with
the tires pumped up to 45 psi.
> I personally
> go about 55mpg on a 2006 Prius on a long trip from Washington
> DC to Grand Rapids Michigan - my mileage would have
> been better if I had not sped up to 70mph in Michigan but
> almost all the vehicles on the super highway in Michigan
> are going at 70 to 80 mph there. However, while I was in
> Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Ohio I drove about 55 mph
> (I believe I could have gotten 60mph if I stuck to 55mph
> all the way) .
The mileage my Prius gets goes down drasticly as speed goes up. At 65
it gets about 47 mpg. At 75 it gets 38. Really suprised me that it
dropped off that fast. Saw some charts and it's not just that the
power required is higher, the engine drops out of its most efficient
operating range.
> Question: Does a motorcycle wind cowls help with either
> performance or fuel efficiency? If so how much?
Depends on the fairing. Touring fairings in particular are intended
to provide protection more than efficiency. Same with sport bike
fairings to some extent, and to counteract lift. To get a low Cd the
front wheel needs to be enclosed as was done in old "dust bin"
fairings. But those were banned from racing in part due to bad
effects from crosswinds. The sportbike crowd wants their bikes to
look like race bikes, so... The biggest problem for streamlining a
bike isn't at the front, it is closing the wake behind the rider.
Bruce Richmond
> You may be fooling yourself with inaccurate metering.
>
> I find it hard to believe you could meter, accurately, the mileage over a 40
> mile long trip. The consumption would be less than 2/3 US gal. I trust you
> have a fluid meter in your gas line, your batteries shut off and a precision
> level on your gas tank.
The readout is linked to the fuel injection system which measures
exactly how much fuel it is injecting at all times. It is very
accurate and agrees with what I get when I fill the tank.
> "Bruce Richmond" <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote in message