Champion 3000 Watt Generator, Hard Starting when Cold

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

Hi,

I bought a new Champion 3000 watt generator (model 46595) at Lowes on
Dec 22 2014. After I filled with gasoline and added the oil, I was able to
start the generator with just one pull of the cord. Note: I keep the
generator in the shed, and the temperature was very mild, around 50 degrees.

I ran the generator for 1 hour, and followed the procedure in the
instructions manual for shutting it down (close the fuel valve and let the
generator run until it stops). Note: I also bought Stabil and added the
proper dose to the gas tank (3.8 capacity).

Exactly one month later, I went to the shed and moved the generator to
the same location, which is level, where I ran it the first time.
Note: No load on generator. The temperature was about 34 degrees.
I had to pull several times before I was able to get the generator to start.
Note: I know about putting the choke in the proper position and turning on
the ignition switch.

Due to the location of the pull cord, I have to kneel and pull the
cord sideways (awkward). I am thinking about adding a pulley for the cord so
I can stand up to pull the cord. This will allow me greater pulling thrust
(like my lawn mower).

Has anyone else have this same experience?

Thank You in advance, John

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

I bought mine with electric start for that very reason.
Starting a cold dry engine will ALWAYS take more than one pull.

[ads...@wizardanswers.com]

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 12:33:35 -0500, jaugu...@verizon.net wrote:

Turn the fuel valve on and wait a minute or two for gas to get to the
carburetor. It doesn't happen quickly, as the small height difference
between the gas tank and the carb doesn't allow for much help from
gravity.

I do this on the three generators I use. Some start easier than
others, but none of them start until the gas gets to the carb ;-)

I have the same circumstances with my riding mower - I turn the fuel
valve off and let it run the carb dry. If I don't give it a minute or
so to fill the carb when I want to use it again, it will not do well -
even with electric start.

[Vaughn]

On 1/23/2015 12:33 PM, jaugu...@verizon.net wrote:
> Has anyone else have this same experience?

As the others have said, your issue probably has to do with gas delivery
to the carburetor. Turning off the gas to stop the generator is a good
idea, because it leaves the carburetor dry. Otherwise, evaporating gas
might gum it up.

Waiting for the carburetor to fill, as someone suggested, works with
some engines, but other small engines have a little diaphragm operated
fuel pump. That pesky little pump is (I think) vacuum operated, so it
might take several pulls to pump enough gas to start the engine. One
workaround is to prime by dropping a soda straw full of gas right down
the carburetor throat. Bear in mind, this may be a bigger PITA than
just pulling on the cord until the thing starts.

Vaughn

[Steve Stone]

I found using synthetic oil makes it alot easier to pull start a
generator on very cold days.

[hubops]

Try this - for fuel priming -
1. open fuel valve
2. choke on
3. engine switch off
4. give it two half-hearted pulls
5. engine switch on
6. count to twenty
7. one good pull
don't forget choke off ! after it starts..
This sometimes works for finicky old 2-strokes as well.
John T.





--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

>
> Try this - for fuel priming -
> 1. open fuel valve
> 2. choke on
> 3. engine switch off
> 4. give it two half-hearted pulls
> 5. engine switch on
> 6. count to twenty
> 7. one good pull
> don't forget choke off ! after it starts..
>This sometimes works for finicky old 2-strokes as well.
> John T.
>

Hi John,

I am waiting for improved weather (snowed recently, and more coming)
so I can go to the shed where generator is located. I want to try my home
made "attachment" which will allow me to pull on the "starting cord" standing
up.

Note: Kneeling and pulling on the cord sideways is very awkward since the
generator is on the floor. If the generator was up on a stand, it wouldn't
be awkward.

I will wait a short while after opening the fuel valve and do what you
suggested, before I try to start the generator. I will report what happens.

Again Thanks, John

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

>
> Try this - for fuel priming -> 1. open fuel valve
> 2. choke on
> 3. engine switch off
> 4. give it two half-hearted pulls
> 5. engine switch on
> 6. count to twenty
> 7. one good pull
> don't forget choke off ! after it starts..
>This sometimes works for finicky old 2-strokes as well.
> John T.
>

Hi John,

Note: Temperature 28 degrees (generator in shed).

After I mounted my "rigging" and changed the handle at the end of the rope
(made rope a little longer), I tried your procedure, but this time I can
stand up to pull on the recoil starting rope.

I still had to pull several times before the engine started.

At least it is not as difficult (pulling on the rope) as it is
kneeling and pulling sideways.

BTW,

A week ago I reported my difficult cold starting issue at
www.championpowerequipment.com web site (leaving my email address).
I did not get a reply yet.

Thanks again, John

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

>Hi John,
>
> Note: Temperature 28 degrees (generator in shed).
>
> After I mounted my "rigging" and changed the handle at the end of the rope
>(made rope a little longer), I tried your procedure, but this time I can
>stand up to pull on the recoil starting rope.
>
> I still had to pull several times before the engine started.
>
> At least it is not as difficult (pulling on the rope) as it is
>kneeling and pulling sideways.
>
>BTW,
>
> A week ago I reported my difficult cold starting issue at
>www.championpowerequipment.com web site (leaving my email address).
>I did not get a reply yet.
>
> Thanks again, John
>

Hi,

UPDATE:

I just received a reply from Brian (Champion Support). He told me
to disconnect the low oil sensor as a test. Note: There is a wire that has a
quick disconnect for the oil sensor. He said sometimes the sensor sticks.

I will try that in a month (unless there is a power loss) and report back.

John

[Bob F]

I have a generator that was a freebie that I finally traced down to exactly that
problem. I disconnected the oil sensor and it started right up, and continued to
work afterwards.

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

>> UPDATE:
>>
>> I just received a reply from Brian (Champion Support). He told me
>> to disconnect the low oil sensor as a test. Note: There is a wire
>> that has a quick disconnect for the oil sensor. He said sometimes
>> the sensor sticks.
>>
>> I will try that in a month (unless there is a power loss) and
>> report back.
>>
>
>I have a generator that was a freebie that I finally traced down to exactly that
>problem. I disconnected the oil sensor and it started right up, and continued to
>work afterwards.
>

Hi Bob,

Thanks for telling me.

I think I will try to start my generator this coming Thursday (weather
permitting), a week after running the generator. I am not going to
wait a month.

I will report the results.

Again Thanks, John

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

UPDATE:

I decided to try Brian's (Champion support) procedure today, Wednesday,
since the temp. is about the same as it was the last time I ran the generator.
Note: I keep generator in the shed.

I still had a hard time starting the cold generator. Thank goodness I
made that "rigging" so I can stand up while pulling on the recoil starter
cord.

I sent an email to Brian regarding his suggestion did not work. If I
learn anything more, I will post it here.

John

[NotMe]

<jaugu...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:s5k4datfg4fhmgttl...@4ax.com...

We maintain remote communications towers and have employed bock heaters in
all of our standby generators. The result we've cut repair/outage trips
where the gen set does not start drastically.

[Martin Riddle]

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 12:33:35 -0500, jaugu...@verizon.net wrote:

Have you checked the plug gap?
Also check the choke to see if it is closing enough.

CHeers

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Worst case scenario you do like I have done on my snowblower. I
drilled a 1/8" hole in the airbox, and one little whiff of starting
fluid starts it on the first turn. I glued the little red tube into
the nozzle of the can and I keep itr on the shelf beside the door in
the shed where the blower is parked.

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

>
>Have you checked the plug gap?
>Also check the choke to see if it is closing enough.
>
>CHeers

Hi,

After my last post, I removed the spark plug and checked
the gap. It was .032 inch. The instructions manual specifies ".028 - .031".
I adjusted the gap to .030 inch.

I also checked the choke after I removed the air filter. It is closed
with the "choke" position of the lever, and it is open with the "Run"
position of the lever.

I also thought about buying starter ether (spray can), but I
have to remove the air filter cover and the "foam" air filter in
order to spray the ether into the engine via the open choke
port.

Later this week, I plan on trying to start the cold generator.
I don't have high hopes that the spark plug gap adjustment is
going to make a big difference, but I hope I am wrong.

BTW:

Brian (Champion support) said I could pull on the recoil starter
rope up to 3 times with the lever in "choke" (closed) position, but not to do
it more than 3 times due to flooding the engine.

Thanks for your suggestions, John

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

> After my last post, I removed the spark plug and checked
>the gap. It was .032 inch. The instructions manual specifies ".028 - .031".
>I adjusted the gap to .030 inch.
>
> I also checked the choke after I removed the air filter. It is closed
>with the "choke" position of the lever, and it is open with the "Run"
>position of the lever.
>
> I also thought about buying starter ether (spray can), but I
>have to remove the air filter cover and the "foam" air filter in
>order to spray the ether into the engine via the open choke
>port.
>
> Later this week, I plan on trying to start the cold generator.
>I don't have high hopes that the spark plug gap adjustment is
>going to make a big difference, but I hope I am wrong.
>
> BTW:
>
> Brian (Champion support) said I could pull on the recoil starter
>rope up to 3 times with the lever in "choke" (closed) position, but not to do
>it more than 3 times due to flooding the engine.
>

UPDATE:

Today (02-12-15), I went to the shed (temp 33 degrees F.) where
generator is located.

Even with the choke closed for 3 pulls, the engine gave no
sign of trying to start, not even a "sputter". I kept the choke
closed for a couple more pulls, nothing. I open the choke a little
then tried again, nothing. I closed the choke and tried again,
nothing.

I couldn't smell any gas fumes which is usually a sign of a
flooded engine(?), but since it is cold, maybe fumes don't happen
as quick?

After a small waiting period, incase the engine is flooded,
I was finally able to get the engine to start. Note: I am trying
to learn a procedure for starting this when it is cold.

Cold Starting Procedure so far (subject to change):

Pull (recoil start) 5 to 7 pulls with choke completely
closed. Wait about 3 to 5 minutes, then try again.

If anyone has a better procedure, please let me know.

[Bob F]

Did you wait awhile after turning on the fuel before trying? Wait at least
several minutes.

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

>> UPDATE:
>>
>> Today (02-12-15), I went to the shed (temp 33 degrees F.) where
>> generator is located.
>>
>> Even with the choke closed for 3 pulls, the engine gave no
>> sign of trying to start, not even a "sputter". I kept the choke
>> closed for a couple more pulls, nothing. I open the choke a little
>> then tried again, nothing. I closed the choke and tried again,
>> nothing.
>>
>> I couldn't smell any gas fumes which is usually a sign of a
>> flooded engine(?), but since it is cold, maybe fumes don't happen
>> as quick?
>>
>> After a small waiting period, incase the engine is flooded,
>> I was finally able to get the engine to start. Note: I am trying
>> to learn a procedure for starting this when it is cold.
>>
>> Cold Starting Procedure so far (subject to change):
>>
>> Pull (recoil start) 5 to 7 pulls with choke completely
>> closed. Wait about 3 to 5 minutes, then try again.
>>
>> If anyone has a better procedure, please let me know.
>>
>> Thank You in advance, John
>
>Did you wait awhile after turning on the fuel before trying? Wait at least
>several minutes.
>

Hi,

I did wait a little, but not several minutes.

IMPORTANT:

When I bought this generator (new) on Dec 22, 2014, the
temp was around 50 degrees

Note: This is a gravity feed (gas tank above engine) system.

After I filled the gas tank, I opened the fuel valve, and without
waiting very long (maybe about 15 seconds), the generator started with only
one pull.

QUESTION:

Are you trying to tell me that when it is cold, it takes a while for the
gas to flow down into the carburetor? Please explain.

John

[Bob F]

jaugu...@verizon.net wrote:
>>> UPDATE:
.......

>>
>> Did you wait awhile after turning on the fuel before trying? Wait at
>> least several minutes.
>>
> Hi,
>
> I did wait a little, but not several minutes.
>
> IMPORTANT:
>
> When I bought this generator (new) on Dec 22, 2014, the
> temp was around 50 degrees
>
> Note: This is a gravity feed (gas tank above engine) system.
>
> After I filled the gas tank, I opened the fuel valve, and without
> waiting very long (maybe about 15 seconds), the generator started
> with only one pull.
>
> QUESTION:
>
> Are you trying to tell me that when it is cold, it takes a while
> for the gas to flow down into the carburetor? Please explain.
>
> John

I've had a few engined that take some time for the fuel to fill the bowl.

[Vaughn]

On 2/13/2015 11:40 PM, Bob F wrote:
> I've had a few engined that take some time for the fuel to fill the bowl.

Many small engines these days have fuel pumps, even when it appears that
gravity feed would have been sufficient. They are tiny devices, little
more than a lump in the fuel line with a third hose that goes off
somewhere to provide a pressure pulse to make them work. Any engine
that has one might seem hard starting if the fuel bowl is dry, because
it will take several pulls to pump gas to the bowl.

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

Hi Vaughn,

Below is from my previous post. Please comprehend what it says.

> IMPORTANT:
>
> When I bought this generator (new) on Dec 22, 2014, the
>temp was around 50 degrees
>
> Note: This is a gravity feed (gas tank above engine) system.
>
> After I filled the gas tank, I opened the fuel valve, and without
>waiting very long (maybe about 15 seconds), the generator started with only
>one pull.

Notice I said, "the generator started with only one pull". This
generator was "bone dry" when I bought it new.

The main difference between the first time, and later is the temperature
of the generator. The first time, it was mild (50 degrees). After that,
the generator was COLD.

QUESTION:

When the generator is COLD, does it take a while to fill the "bowl"?

John

[Martin Riddle]

Is the OP using a summer blend of fuel or winter. There is a slight
difference that might affect starting.

Cheers

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

>
>Is the OP using a summer blend of fuel or winter. There is a slight
>difference that might affect starting.
>
>Cheers

Hi Martin,

You brought up a logical point I never thought of.

It is odd that Brian, Champion support, never mentioned that to
me when I told him about the hard starting cold generator.

The gas I put in the generator, I bought in August or September in a 5 gal.
container for my lawn mower. It is that gas I put in the generator.

Do you know for a fact that a gasoline blend changes for cold weather?

Thank You for your help, John

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

It is a fact, but I doubt that is the problem.

[Martin Riddle]

They are adjusted for VOC I believe, so that the blend does not boil
off in the warmer weather.
You can google it, but winter blend is more volatile and has more
butane in it resulting in lower mileage, but should be easier to
start.

Cheers

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

It WILL be easier to start - but only marginally. Won't make the
difference the OP is experiencing. Won't make any more difference
than the leaning effect of using E10 gasoline instead of pure gas.

Now, using summer rated E10 will affect starting more than using E10
winter or pure summer gas. I suspect the carb is too lean for E10 to
start properly, and he may have a slow initial fill on the carb float
bowl too.

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

> It WILL be easier to start - but only marginally. Won't make the
>difference the OP is experiencing. Won't make any more difference
>than the leaning effect of using E10 gasoline instead of pure gas.
>
>Now, using summer rated E10 will affect starting more than using E10
>winter or pure summer gas. I suspect the carb is too lean for E10 to
>start properly, and he may have a slow initial fill on the carb float
>bowl too.

Hi,

I have learned that the winter blend of gasoline has a different RVP (Reid
Vapor Pressure) compared to summer. The Winter blend has a higher evaporation
rate.

Since I filled the generator's gas tank with the summer blend, it's
evaporation rate is lower. Perhaps this is why after several pulls on the
recoil starter, when I wait a few minutes, then the generator starts.

CONCLUSION:

The fumes that form in the combustion chamber take more time to occur due
to the slower evaporation rate of the summer blend gasoline, in addition to
the cold temperature (cold reduces evaporation rate).

John

[amdx]

On 1/23/2015 2:57 PM, Steve Stone wrote:
> I found using synthetic oil makes it alot easier to pull start a
> generator on very cold days.

I would add, keep a can of ether (starting fluid) handy to help
starting in cold weather.
Mikek

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[hub...@ccanoemail.com]

< snips >

>
> I have learned that the winter blend of gasoline has a different RVP (Reid
>Vapor Pressure) compared to summer. The Winter blend has a higher evaporation
>rate.
> Since I filled the generator's gas tank with the summer blend, it's
>evaporation rate is lower. Perhaps this is why after several pulls on the
>recoil starter, when I wait a few minutes, then the generator starts.
> CONCLUSION:
> The fumes that form in the combustion chamber take more time to occur due
>to the slower evaporation rate of the summer blend gasoline, in addition to
>the cold temperature (cold reduces evaporation rate).
> John
>

Be sure to let us all know - your results -
- when you have tested it with the winter gasoline.

[winse...@gmail.com]

>The fumes that form in the combustion chamber take more time to occur due
>to the slower evaporation rate of the summer blend gasoline, in addition to
>the cold temperature (cold reduces evaporation rate).

I wanna Add;

1) Gas is Oxygenated (they call it), with Alcohol
So, I say the Gas we get is only good for a month and couple of months your
pushing it. So, fresh Gas always starts way Better!

2) Try an old Propane torch unlit (Don't lite it), take the defuser off the
Propane torch end, put the torch end directly in the carburetor as far in as
you can and open the valve wide open (Two Cycle Diesel Starting Trick), turn
the Torch off when you see icing on the torch end and immediately pull
start.
Should start no problem first pull☺

Forget the Starting fluid and this won't work on your car because, the
Propane torch won't give enough fuel (The Car engine is too Big)

3) Water collects at the Bottom of any fuel Tank during the Cold Winter.
Especially since Alcohol has been induced into our Gas.
The Water in the Service Station Tank(s) ends up in your Tank
Cause, Alcohol makes Water molecules adhere to the Gas and run right through
the Station's filters and we just got rid of all their water and paid em!
Cars Also have Fuel filters which get most of the water but Alcohol makes
Water molecules adhere to the Gas and the Rest just gets ran
through the engine, with a little hard starting, sputter and a miss
you don't even notice.

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

>
> Be sure to let us all know - your results -
>- when you have tested it with the winter gasoline.
> John T.
>

Hi John T.

I don't think I am going to bother going through the trouble
of draining the gas tank (summer blend gas), which is over half full.
Note: It isn't easy removing the hose from the fuel filter in order to drain
the tank. I am not going to run the generator again until milder
weather (coming soon).

I have learned from everyone's responses. I have a better
understanding of why it is hard to start when cold. If I actually need (power
outage) to use the generator when it is very cold, I am prepared.

Once again, Thanks to everyone for your tips, John

[puddie...@gmail.com]

On Friday, January 23, 2015 at 2:03:15 PM UTC-5, ads...@wizardanswers.com wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 12:33:35 -0500, jaugu...@verizon.net wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >
> > I bought a new Champion 3000 watt generator (model 46595) at Lowes on
> > Dec 22 2014. After I filled with gasoline and added the oil, I was able to
> >start the generator with just one pull of the cord. Note: I keep the
> >generator in the shed, and the temperature was very mild, around 50 degrees.
> >
> > I ran the generator for 1 hour, and followed the procedure in the
> >instructions manual for shutting it down (close the fuel valve and let the
> >generator run until it stops). Note: I also bought Stabil and added the
> >proper dose to the gas tank (3.8 capacity).
> >
> > Exactly one month later, I went to the shed and moved the generator to
> >the same location, which is level, where I ran it the first time.
> >Note: No load on generator. The temperature was about 34 degrees.
> >I had to pull several times before I was able to get the generator to start.
> >Note: I know about putting the choke in the proper position and turning on
> >the ignition switch.
> >
> > Due to the location of the pull cord, I have to kneel and pull the
> >cord sideways (awkward). I am thinking about adding a pulley for the cord so
> >I can stand up to pull the cord. This will allow me greater pulling thrust
> >(like my lawn mower).
> >
> > Has anyone else have this same experience?
> >

> > Thank You in advance, John
>

> Turn the fuel valve on and wait a minute or two for gas to get to the
> carburetor. It doesn't happen quickly, as the small height difference
> between the gas tank and the carb doesn't allow for much help from
> gravity.
>
> I do this on the three generators I use. Some start easier than
> others, but none of them start until the gas gets to the carb ;-)
>
> I have the same circumstances with my riding mower - I turn the fuel
> valve off and let it run the carb dry. If I don't give it a minute or
> so to fill the carb when I want to use it again, it will not do well -
> even with electric start.



are you closing off the gas line each time after you run it???? and running it until the gas line empties and shuts off itself

[Webs...@gmx.com]

On Saturday, 24 January 2015 10:36:12 UTC-4, hubops wrote:
> >Hi,
> > I bought a new Champion 3000 watt generator (model 46595) at Lowes on
> > Dec 22 2014. After I filled with gasoline and added the oil, I was able to
> >start the generator with just one pull of the cord. Note: I keep the
> >generator in the shed, and the temperature was very mild, around 50 degrees.
> > I ran the generator for 1 hour, and followed the procedure in the
> >instructions manual for shutting it down (close the fuel valve and let the
> >generator run until it stops). Note: I also bought Stabil and added the
> >proper dose to the gas tank (3.8 capacity).
> > Exactly one month later, I went to the shed and moved the generator to
> >the same location, which is level, where I ran it the first time.
> >Note: No load on generator. The temperature was about 34 degrees.
> >I had to pull several times before I was able to get the generator to start.
> >Note: I know about putting the choke in the proper position and turning on
> >the ignition switch.
> > Due to the location of the pull cord, I have to kneel and pull the
> >cord sideways (awkward). I am thinking about adding a pulley for the cord so
> >I can stand up to pull the cord. This will allow me greater pulling thrust
> >(like my lawn mower).
> > Has anyone else have this same experience?
> > Thank You in advance, John
>
>

> Try this - for fuel priming -
> 1. open fuel valve
> 2. choke on
> 3. engine switch off
> 4. give it two half-hearted pulls
> 5. engine switch on
> 6. count to twenty
> 7. one good pull
> don't forget choke off ! after it starts..
> This sometimes works for finicky old 2-strokes as well.

> John T.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

I think you have provided me with the solution to my annoying problem with my Champion Genny. Was struggling with it today(cooler weather) discovered your post and tried it. Bang it started first pull. The switch off is the core of this technique I believe. Plug is firing twice and gas doesn't have time to accumulate and vaporize with the switch on from the get go would be my guess. Can't wait until tomorrow to try it (supposed to be colder).

[ads]

On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 08:49:13 -0800 (PST), puddie...@gmail.com
wrote:

Yes. The mower is now 15 years old and still in regular use.

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On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 09:36:15 -0500, hubops <hub...@ccanoemail.com>

wrote:

>
>>Hi,
>> I bought a new Champion 3000 watt generator (model 46595) at Lowes on
>> Dec 22 2014. After I filled with gasoline and added the oil, I was able to
>>start the generator with just one pull of the cord. Note: I keep the
>>generator in the shed, and the temperature was very mild, around 50 degrees.
>> I ran the generator for 1 hour, and followed the procedure in the
>>instructions manual for shutting it down (close the fuel valve and let the
>>generator run until it stops). Note: I also bought Stabil and added the
>>proper dose to the gas tank (3.8 capacity).
>> Exactly one month later, I went to the shed and moved the generator to
>>the same location, which is level, where I ran it the first time.
>>Note: No load on generator. The temperature was about 34 degrees.
>>I had to pull several times before I was able to get the generator to start.
>>Note: I know about putting the choke in the proper position and turning on
>>the ignition switch.
>> Due to the location of the pull cord, I have to kneel and pull the
>>cord sideways (awkward). I am thinking about adding a pulley for the cord so
>>I can stand up to pull the cord. This will allow me greater pulling thrust
>>(like my lawn mower).
>> Has anyone else have this same experience?
>> Thank You in advance, John
>
>

> Try this - for fuel priming -
> 1. open fuel valve
> 2. choke on
> 3. engine switch off
> 4. give it two half-hearted pulls
> 5. engine switch on
> 6. count to twenty
> 7. one good pull
> don't forget choke off ! after it starts..
>This sometimes works for finicky old 2-strokes as well.
> John T.
>
>
>
>
>
>--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

My 3000 watt champion starts OK when I'm testing it but in the dark at
27F with 7" of snow, I take starting fluid and tools to remove the
air cleaner - just in case...

[manki...@gmail.com]

Yep!
This Champion only started first pull when I bought it in summer. Once it got colder in fall cud never get it going. After trying it a few more times throughout fall and into winter, same thing except for one time took spark plug out, poured in a little gas, and second effort like this, she went. But I didnt want to do that every time. Saw the John T post and tried it (seemed logical) and no problems now. Switch off for 2 pulls and waiting 20 seconds after switch on and then 3rd pull works!

[tdela...@gmail.com]

On Friday, January 23, 2015 at 12:33:30 PM UTC-5, jaugu...@verizon.net wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I bought a new Champion 3000 watt generator (model 46595) at Lowes on
> Dec 22 2014. After I filled with gasoline and added the oil, I was able to
> start the generator with just one pull of the cord. Note: I keep the
> generator in the shed, and the temperature was very mild, around 50 degrees.
>
> I ran the generator for 1 hour, and followed the procedure in the
> instructions manual for shutting it down (close the fuel valve and let the
> generator run until it stops). Note: I also bought Stabil and added the
> proper dose to the gas tank (3.8 capacity).
>
> Exactly one month later, I went to the shed and moved the generator to
> the same location, which is level, where I ran it the first time.
> Note: No load on generator. The temperature was about 34 degrees.
> I had to pull several times before I was able to get the generator to start.
> Note: I know about putting the choke in the proper position and turning on
> the ignition switch.
>
> Due to the location of the pull cord, I have to kneel and pull the
> cord sideways (awkward). I am thinking about adding a pulley for the cord so
> I can stand up to pull the cord. This will allow me greater pulling thrust
> (like my lawn mower).
>
> Has anyone else have this same experience?
>
> Thank You in advance, John

Same here. Didn't start the first time I needed it. 30F. Dec.
One pull back in Sept.

[tdela...@gmail.com]

I'm going back for a Honda

[ads]

I was out in 30F with 7" of snow using a screwdriver to remove the air
cleaner and keeping a can of "starting fluid" warm in the other hand.
A couple of squirts and a few pulls later, it started. I had to
SLOWLY nurse it off the choke before I could put a load on it. Once
warm, it ran fine and took the planned load, but much more effort
getting it started than the last time it was tested (at maybe 60F).

I've completed my solar generator to provide 8 to 24 hours of backup
AC power depending on the season (12 volt 540AH battery bank, 2000
watt pure sine wave inverter, multiple solar panels to keep the
batteries charged until needed). Not a whole-house alternate energy
system, just enough power to ensure I won't be starting the Champion
gen in the dark again. The cold I can manage, but I'd rather not be
working (or pouring gasoline) by headlight or flashlight.

[Jim Wilkins]

<ads> wrote in message
news:pp4r2ed09if8poaie...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 06:02:06 -0800 (PST), tdela...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, January 23, 2015 at 12:33:30 PM UTC-5,
>>jaugu...@verizon.net wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>

> ..........

> I was out in 30F with 7" of snow using a screwdriver to remove the
> air
> cleaner and keeping a can of "starting fluid" warm in the other
> hand.
> A couple of squirts and a few pulls later, it started. I had to
> SLOWLY nurse it off the choke before I could put a load on it. Once
> warm, it ran fine and took the planned load, but much more effort
> getting it started than the last time it was tested (at maybe 60F).

http://blog.jackssmallengines.com/2015/04/see-ethanol-damage-up-close/
With my equipment, needing more choke than usual means it's time to
disassemble the carb and blow out the clogged main jet and other
passages with compressed air. The ethanol/water damage appears as a
clear or yellowish jelly at the bottom of the carburetor bowl, or
white powder if the bowl has dried out. I've read that it is a gel of
aluminum hydroxide etched from the carb and fuel pump.

During a power outage a 12VDC car tire inflater supplies the air.

>
> I've completed my solar generator to provide 8 to 24 hours of backup
> AC power depending on the season (12 volt 540AH battery bank, 2000
> watt pure sine wave inverter, multiple solar panels to keep the
> batteries charged until needed). Not a whole-house alternate
> energy
> system, just enough power to ensure I won't be starting the Champion
> gen in the dark again. The cold I can manage, but I'd rather not be
> working (or pouring gasoline) by headlight or flashlight.

My generator setup includes corrugated roofing panels and sawhorses to
support them over the generator in bad weather, stored along the path
I have to shovel to reach and set up the genny.

That refrigerator you mentioned is efficient because it lacks a
freezer compartment. I didn't see much difference in energy rating
among in-stock compact refrigerators with full width freezers and
bought the Magic Chef for its reviews, interior features and $168 sale
price. The first thing I checked was its starting surge to confirm
that the 1400VA sine inverter could handle it.

I wish the Alpicool DC powered fridge/freezer was more reliable. I
used it to discharge a battery to check out the new MPPT controller.
It consumed 14.8Ah in 24 hours, of which 7Ah went to 6 hours as a
freezer at -18C and the other 18 hours to a fridge setting of -4C. At
that rate it should preserve the 6 days of food I can cram into it on
my battery bank's initial charge.

The Alpi may have faulted on AC power glitches. I haven't run it on
battery-backed DC long enough to tell, as it ran a month or two on AC
between faults.

Have you needed to replace AGMs yet? My experience with 12V18Ah AGMs
is that they deteriorate after around 5 years and can't be restored,
while flooded batteries are useable for at least 10 years if kept
charged.

-jsw

[ads]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 09:14:42 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:



>Have you needed to replace AGMs yet? My experience with 12V18Ah AGMs
>is that they deteriorate after around 5 years and can't be restored,
>while flooded batteries are useable for at least 10 years if kept
>charged.
>
>-jsw
>

The AGMs were purchased used, a data center UPS changeout at 5 years
(rated life is 10 years). These are 12 volt 82AH (8 hour) or 90AH (20
hour) DataSafe 12HX330FR (FR for Fire Resistant). These batteries are
rated for 586 amps discharge for 2 minutes with a short circuit
current of 3700 amps.

I did discharge tests on each battery when I got them and they all
tested as a new battery would, recovering to the 50% charege open
circuit voltage in a mtter of minutes after the load was removed.
DataSafe does make the full specs available online so I could do
proper testing. The biggest load I'll have on the battery bank is
about 200 amps (2000 watts at 12 volts and the inverter about 80-85%
efficient at full load). The average load over 24 hours will be less
than 300 watts.

I repeated the 50% discharge test this summer (about 18 months after
the first test) and 5 of the 6 batteries still test as new. The 6th
battery misses the spec by less than 0.1 volt.

With the batteries being in conditioned space and mostly being beought
to float voltage daily, plus an occasional electrolyte stir (specs say
current limited 14.4 volt charge for 16 hours 4 or 5 times a year - I
let the MPPT charge controller do "equalization" at that voltage for 2
hours each month), I'm optimistic about getting the remaining 5 years
out of the batteries. At $35 each, I got a bargain. Had I been able
to contact the seller again after I did the testing, I'd have bought
at least 6 more batteries. (New from DataSafe is $300; aftermarket
brands are about $170.)

I have a Group 24 battery (bottom of the line) from Advance Auto that
I picked up via Freecycle a long time ago. The date code on the
battery has a "4" in it (for 2004) but that battery has been my test
power for all types of automotive gear. However, it's never been in
a vehicle, it is regularly charged and the acid level is checked and
topped off with distilled water as needed. It still passes the 100
amp battery tester check that you'd get at Advance. If I can get that
much life out of a cheap battery, I think the odds of getting these
AGMs to 10 years after manufacture are excellent.

You'll probably find this article on time to 100% SOC at different
charge rates of interest:
https://marinehowto.com/how-fast-can-an-agm-battery-be-charged/

I found a reference (not sure if it's the one above or elsewhere) that
charging can be 90% efficient below 80% SOC but as low as 50%
efficient above 80% SOC. If that last bit of charge seems to take
forever - it does!

Most AGMs can be charged at 0.2C or greater (max charge rate is often
on the side of the smaller batteries) and they reach high levels of
SOC sooner with the correct charge rate. I can't do that with my
battery bank as 540AH * 0.2 = 108amps which I can't provide. Even the
lawnmower + GM alternator charger I'm putting together only has an 85
amp alternator.

[Jim Wilkins]

<ads> wrote in message
news:c76u2etej714i1gjn...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 09:14:42 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Have you needed to replace AGMs yet? My experience with 12V18Ah AGMs
>>is that they deteriorate after around 5 years and can't be restored,
>>while flooded batteries are useable for at least 10 years if kept
>>charged.
>>
>>-jsw
>>
>
> The AGMs were purchased used, a data center UPS changeout at 5 years

> (rated life is 10 years). ...

This is why I asked:
http://www.power-thru.com/documents/The%20Truth%20About%20Batteries%20-%20POWERTHRU%20White%20Paper.pdf

"Many VRLA batteries are installed throughout the world and the
industry is
beginning to acknowledge that a 20 year VRLA battery life is unlikely
to realize. Recent
industry experience indicates that a 4 to 7 year VRLA battery life is
more likely,
regardless of cell size or warranty claims."

"The data has shown us that so long as we control the temperature in
our battery
room, perform regular maintenance on our cells and install a quality
battery in the
first place, we should see our batteries last the design life of 5
years (VRLA) 15
years (Flooded), ..."

Power-Thru sells flywheel UPS systems that reduce the peak demand on
battery backups.

An Interstate battery in my truck did last 17 years. I replaced it
when its measured (carbon pile) discharge current fell uncomfortably
close to the starter's cold weather demand.

A few of my second-hand 12V,18A AGMs have failed from very low
capacity in one cell. They appear normal on a top-up charge but
rapidly drop to 10V during a load test.


-jsw

[ads]

On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 12:41:49 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

I've been researching alternative batteries for the eventuality that
the current battery bank must be replaced. There is semi-local
(reasonable driving distance) vendor who has new Interstate Powercare
batteries (12MQ2400, 12 volt, 94AH [8 hour]) for $65 each (exchange).
I need to ask if he needs the exact battery or just a "core" of
similar weight. $390 to replace the entire battery bank would be a
very good price.

The single cell failure seems to be a common failure mode for small
VRLA batteries. I have several that died "in one cell" by the voltage
readings.

I've yet to try the "recover your AGM battery" process of opening the
battery up and adding water to the low cell. While I can see that it
might work in the short term, whatever caused that cell to fail is
still there and I'd expect it to fail again in the not-too-distant
future.

I've been spending the recent rainy days (4 days rain, 1 day not rain,
repeat) catching up on my fiction writing. I published my first
TEOTWAWKI novel a little over two years ago and have sold some 1700
copies. Probably OK for an unknown author's first book:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LVU5ILA

I'll have two more books with a similar family theme on Amazon by the
end of this month.

[Jim Wilkins]

<ads> wrote in message
news:03a03e1ug859be4l3...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 12:41:49 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

> ...

> I've yet to try the "recover your AGM battery" process of opening
> the
> battery up and adding water to the low cell. While I can see that
> it
> might work in the short term, whatever caused that cell to fail is
> still there and I'd expect it to fail again in the not-too-distant
> future.
>

Adding water didn't improve the one weak 12V,18A AGM I tried it on.
The valve caps were soft rubber and easy to remove.

My discharge test loads are an assortment of large rotary rheostats,
up to 1 Ohm 1000W (31A). Their advantage is a steady current that
doesn't confuse the ammeter with switching noise, the disadvantage is
that the intended constant current or power ramps down between
unevenly timed readjustments. Successive capacity measurements can
vary around +/- 10%, possibly due to this procedure, which obscures
small changes.

A DC-AC inverter makes a pretty good constant-power load with a
built-in but non adjustable low voltage cutoff. My crock pot draws
100W from the inverter without becoming dangerously hot, while the
rheostats approach 600F at their rated power. An inverter does produce
switching noise that seems to randomize the low voltage trip point.

The run time of an AC-powered refrigerator is hard to estimate because
the inverter will trip out on a starting surge voltage drop although
the battery could still provide the running current. My datalogger
uses PC-linked multimeters which can't sample faster than once per
second, and miss spikes. The DC Alpicool's ramped soft start is a help
here.

-jsw

[Jim Wilkins]

<ads> wrote in message
news:03a03e1ug859be4l3...@4ax.com...

So you live fairly close to "Neon" John DeArmond in Tellico Plains.
http://www.johndearmond.com/

[ads]

On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 09:15:23 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:

><ads> wrote in message
>news:03a03e1ug859be4l3...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 12:41:49 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I've been spending the recent rainy days (4 days rain, 1 day not
>> rain,
>> repeat) catching up on my fiction writing. I published my first
>> TEOTWAWKI novel a little over two years ago and have sold some 1700
>> copies. Probably OK for an unknown author's first book:
>> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LVU5ILA
>>
>
>So you live fairly close to "Neon" John DeArmond in Tellico Plains.
>http://www.johndearmond.com/
>

Not close, but almost due south - about 3 hours by road.

[Neon John]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 09:14:42 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Have you needed to replace AGMs yet? My experience with 12V18Ah AGMs
>is that they deteriorate after around 5 years and can't be restored,
>while flooded batteries are useable for at least 10 years if kept
>charged.

All my life I've had a reliable supply of telephone station batteries.
I'd get them about the specified 10 year replacement and I'd get about
10 years' more use.

With AGMs, the station change out is about 20 years and then I get
another 20 years out of them.

I have about 10 years into my current set of whole-house AGMs after
their 20 years in the switch. I have a friend down from Nu Yawk Citi
and one of out projects is to see what these have left using a
commercial battery tester. I expect these to go the full 40 years
again.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

[Jim Wilkins]

"Neon John" <n...@never.com> wrote in message
news:0l5a4e19ji1pdf9q5...@4ax.com...

What does your commercial battery tester measure?

My experience is with industrial battery testers designed in-house,
mostly for Lithiums. They performed a time-consuming full discharge
and recharge cycle that recalibrates the battery pack's internal fuel
gauge. I haven't seen convincing evidence that the quicker DC or AC
impedance testers for lead-acids correlate well with remaining
capacity or service life.
-jsw

[ssh...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, January 24, 2015 at 9:36:12 AM UTC-5, hubops wrote:
> >Hi,
> > I bought a new Champion 3000 watt generator (model 46595) at Lowes on
> > Dec 22 2014. After I filled with gasoline and added the oil, I was able to
> >start the generator with just one pull of the cord. Note: I keep the
> >generator in the shed, and the temperature was very mild, around 50 degrees.
> > I ran the generator for 1 hour, and followed the procedure in the
> >instructions manual for shutting it down (close the fuel valve and let the
> >generator run until it stops). Note: I also bought Stabil and added the
> >proper dose to the gas tank (3.8 capacity).
> > Exactly one month later, I went to the shed and moved the generator to
> >the same location, which is level, where I ran it the first time.
> >Note: No load on generator. The temperature was about 34 degrees.
> >I had to pull several times before I was able to get the generator to start.
> >Note: I know about putting the choke in the proper position and turning on
> >the ignition switch.
> > Due to the location of the pull cord, I have to kneel and pull the
> >cord sideways (awkward). I am thinking about adding a pulley for the cord so
> >I can stand up to pull the cord. This will allow me greater pulling thrust
> >(like my lawn mower).
> > Has anyone else have this same experience?
> > Thank You in advance, John
>
>

> Try this - for fuel priming -
> 1. open fuel valve
> 2. choke on
> 3. engine switch off
> 4. give it two half-hearted pulls
> 5. engine switch on
> 6. count to twenty
> 7. one good pull
> don't forget choke off ! after it starts..
> This sometimes works for finicky old 2-strokes as well.
> John T.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

I see this is an old thread, but the steps above really helped me to be able to start my fairly new generator consistently.