Briggs and Stratton on methanol?
K Sorter
Hi Everyone,
I need to convert my lawnmower (4 HP Briggs and Stratton Engine) over
to run on methanol or grain alcohol.
I called Brigs, and they do not support the conversion with rebuild
parts for the carb.
If anyone has information about this, or knows where to look for this
sort of info, I'd be gratefull if you would send me some email.
Many thanks,
Art...
K Sorter
K Sorter
K Sorter
Edwin
Sorry Art, I am unable to help, but I am really curious to know why you
"need" to convert.
I'm Edwin
C.A.S.
I don't know about methanol, but I can think of a lot
better uses for grain alcohol than mowing the yard !!!!!
:>))))) - Andy
Edwin
On Thu, 21 May 1998 12:01:47 -0500, (Canadian Central Standard
Time)"C.A.S." <aaaadel...@topher.net>, wrote:
>I don't know about methanol, but I can think of a lot
>better uses for grain alcohol than mowing the yard !!!!!
>
> :>))))) - Andy
Never occurred to me there would be any better use for 'spirits' than using
them in conjunction with GRASS. <wink wink>
I'm Edwin
Bryon Kass
That engine should be able to handle 10% or so of methanol with
gasoline but not much more. The carbs for that size engine are not
available for use with alternative fuels. Larger B/S are available
for use with Propane or Nat gas.
Bryon Kass
webmaster and
Custom Design
150 Mechanic St.
Foxboro, MA 02035
508-543-9068 or fax 508-543-5127 yard 508-384-2415
in THE ENGINE ROOM http://home.ici.net/~cusdn
Mark Clarkson
If I'm not mistaken, when converting to fuels with high alcohol content the
primary consideration is not proper carburation (undeniably important, if
you want the engine to run but...) but is instead the solubility of oil in
alcohol (or is that the solubility of alcohol in oil). Anyway, check it
out before you decide to use fuels with high alcohol content; you don't want
to seize the engine, after all
MArk
Bryon Kass wrote in message <3564EF...@ici.net>...
Andreas Haffner
"Mark Clarkson" <gi...@ibm.net> wrote on Fri, 22 May 1998 22:13:36
-0300:
>If I'm not mistaken, when converting to fuels with high alcohol content the
>primary consideration is not proper carburation (undeniably important, if
>you want the engine to run but...) but is instead the solubility of oil in
>alcohol (or is that the solubility of alcohol in oil). Anyway, check it
>out before you decide to use fuels with high alcohol content; you don't want
>to seize the engine, after all
And check all rubber/plastic parts that they can stand alcohol: tubes,
gaskets. As I remember just now, this was the only thing needed
(besides different adjustments of course) to convert some car engines
ten to twenty years ago. (But this is may be the issue you have in mind
all the way?)
Andreas Haffner
http://home.sol.no/~ahaffner
Remove ".c" from my address before emailing
Veeduber
>I need to convert my lawnmower (4 HP Briggs and Stratton Engine) over
>to run on methanol or grain alcohol.
>
>I called Brigs, and they do not support the conversion with rebuild
>parts for the carb.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Art,
You're probably going to have some difficulty doing this unless your engine is
fitted with the one-piece Flow-Jet carb. The Pulse-Jet and two-piece Flow-Jet
contain some plastic components which I do not believe are compatible with
alcohol. The only elastomeric components in the one-piece Flow-jet carb are
some O-rings
A good place to start would be to obtain a copy of the Briggs & Stratton
manual, their part number 270962. This will allow you to identify exact which
engine you have and make you aware of components which might be more suitable
for your application.
As a personal note, if you are simply seeking an alternative fuel, propane
might be a better option. Briggs & Stratton offers a number of
propane-specific components for their larger engines.
-Bob Hoover
David Buchner
This one-piece Flow-Jet carb, does it look different from the outside? Is
it one of the readily-identifiable small engine carburetors? (Most of my
hand-me-down junk lawnmowers have the one which bolts to the top of the
fuel tank and sucks fuel up through a straw.)
I have a 4000 watt generator with a Tecumseh engine converted to run on
propane. The "conversion" seem to be nothing more than a
vacuum-diaphragm-controlled gizmo that shuts of the gas when the engine
isn't runnning (safety thing), and an adjustable jet-thing screwed into the
carburetor just before the choke. So it really doesn't change the carb at
all - it's pretty much as if you just stuck a hose into the intake and let
propane trickle in with the air.
It's great because it'll run a lot (lot) longer on a 90-lb. propane
cylinder than a half-gallon gasoline tank.
But if you're looking for a do-it-yourself renewable fuel solution, I was
wondering if something similar might work with methane or hydrogen. Just
let it pour into the carb throat just after the air filter, and adjust it
till it runs right...
David Buchner
Fred McGalliard
David Buchner wrote:
> But if you're looking for a do-it-yourself renewable fuel solution, I was
> wondering if something similar might work with methane or hydrogen. Just
> let it pour into the carb throat just after the air filter, and adjust it
> till it runs right...
Well, gaseous fuel components mix easily with the intake air, so most of the
carb is a waste. I mean, why choke the air stream if you don't need the vacuum
to suck in fuel? Only thing I see as a problem is that you need to avoid
strangling (flooding?) the chamber on starting, and any time you up the fuel
flow rate, or slow the engine (under load). Once the engine is running at a
flow rate, it should accelerate till the mix grows too lean, intake flow
reaches a plateau, or some other limiting characteristic stops it. BTW, when
you load that sucker down, the engine slows, the air flow rate slows, if the
fuel flow rate doesn't slow at least some, you may end with an engine that is
real easy to stall under load.
frit...@humboldt.net
In <356F05DE...@boeing.com>, on 05/29/98
>David Buchner wrote:
>> But if you're looking for a do-it-yourself renewable fuel solution, I was
>> wondering if something similar might work with methane or hydrogen. Just
>> let it pour into the carb throat just after the air filter, and adjust it
>> till it runs right...
> BTW, when you load that sucker down, the engine
>slows, the air flow rate slows, if the fuel flow rate doesn't slow at
>least some, you may end with an engine that is real easy to stall under
>load.
Part of the propane kit should be a regulator. You set it to zero positive
pressure. You then have the venturi effect sucking as needed.
::: fri...@humboldt.net(Fritz Oppliger) ::: IT'LL SETTLE
Carl Byrns
Fred McGalliard wrote:
>
> David Buchner wrote:
>
> > But if you're looking for a do-it-yourself renewable fuel solution, I was
> > wondering if something similar might work with methane or hydrogen. Just
> > let it pour into the carb throat just after the air filter, and adjust it
> > till it runs right...
>
> carb is a waste. I mean, why choke the air stream if you don't need the vacuum
> to suck in fuel? Only thing I see as a problem is that you need to avoid
> strangling (flooding?) the chamber on starting, and any time you up the fuel
> flow rate, or slow the engine (under load). Once the engine is running at a
> flow rate, it should accelerate till the mix grows too lean, intake flow
> you load that sucker down, the engine slows, the air flow rate slows, if the
> fuel flow rate doesn't slow at least some, you may end with an engine that is
> real easy to stall under load.
The purpose of the carb is to maintain the correct fuel/air ratio and
regulate engine speed. Speed regulation is accomplished by throttling
the intake, which changes volumetric efficiency.
What ever fuel gas is used, a method of positive cutoff is needed to
prevent any fuel gas from venting to the surrounding atmosphere if the
engine is not running.
BTW- hydrogen is a poor motor fuel due to it's explosive nature and
difficulties with storage.
--
"The man with a new idea is a Crank, until the idea succeeds" - Mark
Twain
David Buchner
In article <356ef5d5$1$sevgmb$mr2...@news.humboldt.net>,
fritzo***@humboldt.net wrote:
> Part of the propane kit should be a regulator. You set it to zero positive
> pressure. You then have the venturi effect sucking as needed.
regulator you mention must be the "regulator" I was thinking just shut off
the gas when there was no (venturi) vacuum from the engine. This part is
bolted to the frame, and the gas line from the regular regulator on the LP
tank comes into it. Then a short rubber fuel line runs out of it, and into
the jet stuck in the intake.
In response to the person who said the carb just restricts the flow: I
guess they left the carburetor on so that it can still run on gasoline, but
I haven't tried it because the float valve has rusted away from aeons of
disuse.
David Buchner
David Buchner
In article <35723CEA...@concentric.net>, Carl Byrns
<oxy...@concentric.net> wrote:
> The purpose of the carb is to maintain the correct fuel/air ratio and
> regulate engine speed. Speed regulation is accomplished by throttling
> the intake, which changes volumetric efficiency.
I don't think the mixing function of the carb comes into it at all, because
the gas doesn't pass through any of the little jets or anything - just gets
dumped into the intake (at least with this conversion). I guess the little
jet screwed into the side, along with the body its screwed into and the
throttle butterfly, adds up to a very, very simple "carburetor"... But
you're right about the speed regulation - the carb (or something) still has
to be there for the throttle function so the governor has something to
adjust.
> BTW- hydrogen is a poor motor fuel due to it's explosive nature and
> difficulties with storage.
Poor, yes, but free because a person can make it themselves. And I'd think
much more appropriate for a stationary engine like a generator, rather than
something you'd try to drive around with.
David Buchner
Fred McGalliard
David Buchner wrote:
> In response to the person who said the carb just restricts the flow: I
> guess they left the carburetor on so that it can still run on gasoline,
Dave. I said that. I think my statment is in error though because the
restriction produces a vacuum that is used to regulate the flow of fuel,
similarly to that of the ordinary gas engine.
Carl Byrns
David Buchner wrote:
>
> In article <35723CEA...@concentric.net>, Carl Byrns
> <oxy...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
> > The purpose of the carb is to maintain the correct fuel/air ratio and
> > regulate engine speed. Speed regulation is accomplished by throttling
> > the intake, which changes volumetric efficiency.
>
> I don't think the mixing function of the carb comes into it at all, because
> the gas doesn't pass through any of the little jets or anything - just gets
> dumped into the intake (at least with this conversion). I guess the little
> jet screwed into the side, along with the body its screwed into and the
> throttle butterfly, adds up to a very, very simple "carburetor"... But
> you're right about the speed regulation - the carb (or something) still has
> to be there for the throttle function so the governor has something to
> adjust.
>
a very simple nozzle above the carb's air horn. BTW- the reason for dual
fuel trucks is that it is illegal to run a gasoline engine in a
building. Most dual fuel trucks are used by HVAC companies and
industrial electricians or plumbers.
Smaller engines, like RV gensets use, have a different method of feeding
propane. Onan, for example, uses the ubiquitous Carter carburetor which
is modified simply by removing the fuel bowl and clamping a hose (from a
Ensign propane regulator) to the main metering jet pickup.
> > BTW- hydrogen is a poor motor fuel due to it's explosive nature and
> > difficulties with storage.
>
> Poor, yes, but free because a person can make it themselves. And I'd think
> much more appropriate for a stationary engine like a generator, rather than
> something you'd try to drive around with.
> David Buchner
Appropriate? Not really. Gasoline burns (not explodes) at a much slower
rate than hydrogen. I know that piston engines have been built to run on
hydrogen, but I doubt that any production engine could withstand the
high pressures hydrogen will produce. If I recall, the hydrogen piston
engine was very heavily constructed and not all that efficient because a
lot of compromises had to be built in to compensate for the rapid
pressure rise of exploding hydrogen ( valve and ignition timing for
example). I think long-term durability was questionable, again due to
the explosive shock loads present.
If you do decide to go through with this, stand waaay back and run the
engine by remote control.
Best of luck- Carl
wil.l...@gmail.com
If the engine doesn't run check/replace the spark plug. (Meth requires a hotter plug)
One concern is that depending on what the fuel line and carb are made of they will corrode over time. I run meth in my lawn mower for fun and am not really concerned about rebuilding the carb and replacing fuel lines.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jim Wilkins
news:368a0bd5-5a2d-4d26...@googlegroups.com...
of it" and the positive "think nothing of it".
I've had a 1980's bowl gasket disintegrate from E10 gas but nothing
else, and no trouble from modern replacement fuel line. Unless you are
all thumbs the carbs are easy to strip, clean and rebuild.
-jsw
cl...@snyder.on.ca
the damage caused. Methanol is extremely agressive. Doesn't take long
to make some carbs unrebuildable with methanol, and it can even
destroy the engine without running it. (due to corrosion) Methanol and
any alloy with copper in it spells bad news. (that's many aluminum
alloys used in pistons, blocks, heads, bearings, manifolds, and fuel
system parts)
bob haller
he poured in a entire gallon and had to get a newpricey carb. he blamed me
i experminted and ran some small gas engines on ditto fluid. later i found that ditto fluid methanol. had some water added.
the methanol did cut grass.