Timberline wood stove by Vermont Castings
LeBlanc
This is my first experience with an airtight wood stove.
I would love to talk to someone who has the same or similar model
stove as I do.
I own a Timberline TLWS1, a non-cat airtight made by Timberline Inc.
Lafayette Tn.
The stove is similar to a vermont castings Acclaim Reliant, from what
I can gather from the VC. website.
I have a ton of questions about fireing methods etc. that have been
answered in a general fashion by woodheat.org. However I would like
some more specific answers,opinions from someone who actually knows
the stove.
Many thanks,
D. LeBlanc,
Quebec, Canada
Eric Tonks
wood stove that I have owned for at least 20 years. I believe it was made in
Canada. It is easy to identify, the name Timberline is in relief across the
top of two doors and the bottom 2/3 of the doors has a relief carving of
mountains and evergreen trees.
Is this the one you have?
"LeBlanc" <lebla...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cc3f59be.0310...@posting.google.com...
LeBlanc
No, my stove is not like that at all. It is enameled cast iron,
standing on legs, with a clear window in the front. The book that came
with the stove, which I bought 2nd hand, is published in 1997. It came
out of a house that was built in 2000 and I assume the stove was
bought new when the house was built. It is very much like the Aclaim
Reliant model. It is not fancy in any way, except for the beautiful
green enamel.
The thing that has me most puzzled, is the operation of damper. In the
book which came with the stove, it says to close the damper to
restrict the air flow when the stove reaches at least 500 degrees
(stove top themometer reading), however on the themometer, this is
right at the end of clean burn and only 50 degrees away from the
Danger Overfire Zone. This is when you get the secondary compustion
going on, which is what one is striving for, Right? Then why is it so
close to the Danger point?
My woodburning friends all have only one air control on their stoves,
and a baffle plate to restrict air flow. They all tell me to forget
the damper and control the burn from the Primary air control lever in
the front bottom of the stove. I am worried that the flames/gases are
going "right up the chimney" so to speak, causing elevated flu
temperatures which are dangerous.
Maybe I don't know what I am talking about, these are worrys of a
newbie prehaps. That is why I would love to talk to someone who runs a
similar stove.
Thanks for taking the time to read this,
Cheers.
D. LeBlanc
"Eric Tonks" <eto...@sunstorm.com> wrote in message news:<3f96ae4f$0$75890$a186...@authen.newsreader.visi.com>...
Harry Chickpea
>The thing that has me most puzzled, is the operation of damper. In the
>book which came with the stove, it says to close the damper to
>restrict the air flow when the stove reaches at least 500 degrees
>(stove top themometer reading), however on the themometer, this is
>right at the end of clean burn and only 50 degrees away from the
>Danger Overfire Zone. This is when you get the secondary compustion
>going on, which is what one is striving for, Right? Then why is it so
>close to the Danger point?
>My woodburning friends all have only one air control on their stoves,
>and a baffle plate to restrict air flow. They all tell me to forget
>the damper and control the burn from the Primary air control lever in
>the front bottom of the stove. I am worried that the flames/gases are
>going "right up the chimney" so to speak, causing elevated flu
>temperatures which are dangerous.
>Maybe I don't know what I am talking about, these are worrys of a
>newbie prehaps. That is why I would love to talk to someone who runs a
>similar stove.
>Thanks for taking the time to read this,
>Cheers.
>D. LeBlanc
I don't have one of those stoves, but I can say from first hand experience that
a damper on the hot end or in the stovepipe is generally used on colder days to
create eddies and slow the air flow up the chimney/flue. The colder the day
the stronger the draft. You can find a fire overheating and consuming fuel too
quickly if the primary air acts like a jet of oxygen into the burning area.
Closing the damper slows that jet of air and also reduces the available oxygen
in the firebox by holding the CO2 and CO in it longer.
Also, if you only use a primary air control on a super cold day the fire will
flare when you open the feed door, which could, under some conditions, ignite
creosote in the flue. Really strong drafts may even create a whistle as the
draft pulls air through the primary air inlet.
OTOH, If you close down a damper on a warmer day, the stove will smoke and back
puff.
I think you are misreading the phrase -
>In the book which came with the stove, it says to close the damper to
>restrict the air flow when the stove reaches at least 500 degrees
>(stove top themometer reading)
I think it more accurately means -
_If_ the stove gets too hot - up around 500 degrees - you can sometimes close
the damper to help slow the air flow into the stove and slow the burn. It
doesn't mean that you should overcharge the firebox and crank the stove up that
hot on an ongoing basis. If this is a cast stove, you have to be careful about
temperature extremes that could crack the castings.
A flue damper is positioned better than any integrated stove damper to slow the
air flow while allowing the heat to radiate from the flue as well as the stove.
Also, a flue damper is less likely to be forgotten when the outside temperature
changes.
I think you will soon find that properly gauging the amount and type of wood to
put in the firebox is as much a key to proper burning as controlling the intake
and damper. Don't overcharge the stove and learning how to use all the
controls will come naturally.
Mike D2
cold snowy winters.
We've got a Vermont and a Pacific stove. Both with CATs. My general
impressions are:
Vermont - looks good, small capacity, hard to control temperatures (not as
much thermal mass), dangerous around kids (lacks side heat shields), harder
to clean, messy for adding wood, tends to be smokier (inside that is,
especially when top loading). Not a very good unit to maintain an ash bed.
Unit is wide and shallow (logs go in sideways, not good stove design in my
opinion). Has top and front loading feature which is nice. As a result
it's merely an ornamental element to our home. However, during power
failures (we get at least one good one lasting a minimum of several hours
every year), this is a great stove for making coffee on or heating soups
etc. I'm convinced the coffee tastes better made this way...
Pacific - not as pretty (modern design), larger capacity, burns excellent,
excellent temp control. Easy to clean, easy to add wood (no smoking when
you open doors), Has heat shields all around with better clearances to
combustibles. Throws lots of heat. Better around kids (but still dangerous
like any heater!). The CAT works great, very little if any smoke out the
chimney. Unit is narrower and deep (logs go in long ways, excellent burning
qualities). Stove maintains a good ash bed. We use this one all winter long
to heat the house and highly recommend it to anyone. This one sucks for
making coffee as the heat shields are in the way.
In terms of firing methods, we run both hot to start to get the flue temp
up. We regulate based primarily on flue temp, second on stove temp (the
Pacific has a thermometer with "efficiency" rating on it, neet-o). We use
only dry seasoned hardwood. My favorite is sugar maple as I find this gives
great coals and makes for excellent all nighters. We find as the load burns
down the Pacific holds the heat and radiates well, the Vermont loses temp
fast. As an overnighter, we just throw more wood in the Pacific in the
morning and have a nice fire. The Vermont will be dead.
Bottom line - if you want a good looking stove that you use once in a while,
buy the Vermont (or clone). If you are burning 24/7 and heating a house -
buy the Pacific (or modern equivalent). I recommend the CAT stoves, I think
they work much better.
Cheers.
"LeBlanc" <lebla...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cc3f59be.0310...@posting.google.com...
LeBlanc
the damper before the 500 mark on cold days, and prehaps not at all on
warmer ones. Lets say cold is below 32c (Canada here) and warm is in
the 40s+. I did try to kick it in on a warm day (first or second fire,
I have only had 3 so far!) and indeed it did backpuff. I won't do that
again.
The unit has a top loading door, which the booklet strongly recimends
you use, and I do, to stop that big rush of air, or to keep it at a
minimum.
This is a trial and error process, but I don't want to ruin my
stove/chimney in the process.
At this point, I cannot imagine being confident enough to get a fire
going and then leave for a few hours like most of my neighbors do.
They assure me this will come.
Also, it was mentioned not to overload the stove. Again, I have a hard
time imagineing "loading" it up. I have never put more than 2 splits
in at a time, the firebox is small IMHO, and to put the directed 5 or
6 logs in it for a Long Burn, Well, again, I just cannot go there yet.
The answers I have gotten here have helped, but anyone who has the
same stove, or people with good advice are solicited, even if you
think it is repetative. I seem to be a slow learner when it comes to
mastering fire.
Thanks.
D. LeBlanc
hchickpe...@hotmail.com (Harry Chickpea) wrote in message news:<3f992fc4....@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
Harry Chickpea
>So, If I understand the jist of what has been written, I should use
>the damper before the 500 mark on cold days, and prehaps not at all on
>warmer ones. Lets say cold is below 32c (Canada here) and warm is in
>the 40s+. I did try to kick it in on a warm day (first or second fire,
>I have only had 3 so far!) and indeed it did backpuff. I won't do that
>again.
"Cold" in this instance is more like -5 C or 20 degrees F and below, (a lot of
factors go into determining when to use the damper, including flue diameter,
fire size, wind, etc.) but other than holding off until it gets a little
cooler, yeah, you have the general idea.
Mike had some very good comments as well, especially on being careful with
clearances. As for someone burning their sugarbush... <sigh> that often means
another farmer has lost his farm to development or is in dire straits. Maple
is great wood, but usually is a luxury.
Since most stoves work on the same principles, I think looking for someone with
the exact same stove might be going a little overboard. Some people are just
not comfortable burning wood. It's no big deal if you don't trust your stove.
If you don't, you could just leave the stove as is, or sell it. A stove should
work for you, not you for it.
Scott Willing
Intriguing comments on the flue damper. Are we talking about the same
thing, i.e. a disk in the stovepipe with a key handle that works like
a choke?
If this is what you are referring to, with all due respect, everything
I've been able to discover or experience leads me to believe that
these things are a relic from the days of crappy stoves.
1. My insurance agent said they are now frowned upon,
2. woodheat.org says they are no longer used, and
3. in my experience (daily through three Canadian winters) with two
airtights* I have seen no purpose for a damper of this sort at all.
* a rather leaky first-generation model and a new, far more
sophisticated one
Maybe if I cut my wood-burning teeth when these things were ubiquitous
(and I know they were) I'd feel differently, but with a good modern
stove I really can't see the appeal. What am I missing?
-=s
Harry Chickpea
>Intriguing comments on the flue damper. Are we talking about the same
>thing, i.e. a disk in the stovepipe with a key handle that works like
>a choke?
Yep.
>If this is what you are referring to, with all due respect, everything
>I've been able to discover or experience leads me to believe that
>these things are a relic from the days of crappy stoves.
They do help with crappy stoves, but they can also serve a purpose with
airtights.
>1. My insurance agent said they are now frowned upon,
Whatever. If you had said fire chief I might be interested in his reasoning.
Insurance agents sometimes don't know what they are talking about and babble
incoherently about idiocies of great importance only to insurance agents. I
was using hand tests to test for excess heat when insurance companies were
happy with minimal clearances that dried wood framing to dangerous conditions.
>2. woodheat.org says they are no longer used, and
With cats, I might try to avoid them, but I also have to think that the
experience of generations counts for something.
>3. in my experience (daily through three Canadian winters) with two
>airtights* I have seen no purpose for a damper of this sort at all.
>
>* a rather leaky first-generation model and a new, far more
>sophisticated one
If you don't have a lot of exposed stove pipe, and the primary air control is
good, that may be true. If, OTOH, you have a fair length of stove pipe, a
chimney with a really strong draft, a stove where a strong draft pulls air
through bypassing the fire area and up the flue, or just like being ornery :-),
they can be useful.
>Maybe if I cut my wood-burning teeth when these things were ubiquitous
>(and I know they were) I'd feel differently, but with a good modern
>stove I really can't see the appeal. What am I missing?
You are missing those mornings when a warm front arrives before you have a
chance to open the damn thing, and the house fills with smoke. :-) Some
people always operate their open fireplaces with the damper wide open, while
others will damp down just below the level where the mantle gets smoked. The
idea is to reduce the air exchange to the minimum needed by the fire, thus
reducing infiltration of the make-up air. If the stove and the joints are
tight, and the airflow going into the stove is properly directed, a damper can
be redundant. However, if you are used to using a damper, it is just second
nature to nudge it on sub zero days or when the draft starts sucking hard.
Whatever floats your boat. I happen to like them. If you don't, that's fine
too.
ste...@baptistaconstruction.com
EXT
<ste...@baptistaconstruction.com> wrote in message
news:459a4584-ab69-4421...@googlegroups.com...
Timberline stove. After almost 30 years of use, my house insurance company
wanted a Certificate that it met current regulations. Which it did not. So I
had to replace it. I bought a Jotul stove. It lights easier than the
Timberline, burns better even with only one log in it (the Timberline
refused to burn unless there were two logs almost touching), and uses about
half the amount of wood that the Timberline used to use for the same heat.
Things have improved in wood burning. I can't even give the old stove away,
so we are going to install it on the patio as an outdoor fireplace.