Religious Leaders Call for Civil Disobedience if Laws Don't Respect
Faith
Saturday, November 21, 2009 2:52 PM
A formidable coalition of 150 Catholic, Orthodox and evangelical
leaders are calling on Christians in a new manifesto to reject secular
authority - and even engage in civil disobedience - if laws force them to
accept abortion, same-sex marriage and other ideas that betray their
religious beliefs.
On Friday, these leaders released a 4,700-word document - called the
"The Manhattan Declaration: A Call of Christian Conscience."
The document was signed by leaders ranging from evangelical leader
Chuck Colson to two of the leading Catholic prelates in the U.S., Archbishop
Donald Wuerl of Washington, D.C. and Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York,
and calls on Christians to engage in civil disobedience to defend their
doctrines.
The document also blasts the Obama administration, saying that social
ills have grown since the election of President Obama, an abortion rights
advocate, along with an erosion of what it calls "marriage culture" with the
rise of divorce, greater acceptance of infidelity and the uncoupling of
marriage from childbearing.
Colson says the project is aimed at instilling social conservative
beliefs in a new generation of believers.
"We argue that there is a hierarchy of issues," he told The New York
Times. "A lot of younger evangelicals say they're all alike. We're hoping to
educate them that these are the three most important issues" - abortion
marriage and religious liberty.
"We are Orthodox, Catholic, and evangelical Christians who have united
at this hour to reaffirm fundamental truths about justice and the common
good, and to call upon our fellow citizens, believers and non-believers
alike, to join us in defending them," says the declaration, which was
drafted by Colson, an evangelical, and Princeton University professor Robert
P. George, a Roman Catholic.
The declaration lists the "fundamental truths" as the "sanctity of
human life, the dignity of marriage as the conjugal union of husband and
wife, and the rights of conscience and religious liberty."
"Throughout the centuries, Christianity has taught that civil
disobedience is not only permitted, but sometimes required," says the
document which cited civil rights icon Martin Luther King and his
willingness to go to jail for his beliefs.
"Because we honor justice and the common good," it states, "we will
not comply with any edict that purports to compel our institutions to
participate in abortions, embryo-destructive research, assisted suicide or
euthanasia or any other anti-life act; nor will we bend to any rule
purporting to force us to bless immoral sexual partnerships, treat them as
marriages or the equivalent, or refrain from proclaiming the truth, as we
know it, about morality and immorality and marriage and the family."
George and other signers backed off from specifically defining what
civil disobedience may entail. Wuerl's office played down the civil
disobedience wording, saying he wasn't urging Catholics to "do anything
specific," his spokeswoman Susan Gibbs told The Washington Post. "That
wasn't something we had talked about."
"We certainly hope it doesn't come to that," said George, who told The
Washington Times that he has represented a West Virginia resident who has
refused to pay a portion of her state income tax that funds abortions.
"However, we see case after case of challenges to religious liberty," such
as compelling pharmacists to carry abortifacient drugs or health care
workers to assist in abortions, he added.
"When the limits of conscience are reached and you cannot comply, it's
better to suffer a wrong than to do it," he said.
Unveiling the declaration Friday, Archbishop Wuerl appeared at a news
conference in the District of Columbia even as the Church was considering a
city-proposed compromise on its same-sex marriage measure.
He and other Church officials say the bill would require faith-based
groups like Catholic Charities to extend benefits to married same-sex
partners, thus forcing Christians to abandon their religious liberty. On
Friday, Catholic Charities of Boston halted adoption services rather than
comply with state law and allow children to be adopted by homosexual
couples.
Other signatories to the document include Cardinal Justin Rigali,
outgoing chairman of the U.S. Catholic bishops' Committee for Pro-Life
Activities; Pentecostal leader Harry Jackson, pastor of a Beltsville church;
evangelical activist Tony Perkins; and National Association of Evangelicals
President Leith Anderson.
Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, told Newsweek the
point of the Declaration is really to avoid mistakes of the past, such as
when religious leaders did not stand up early enough against no-fault
divorce, which he says led directly to the breakup of families and high
divorce rates.
"I'm a former police officer, and I have hard time with civil
disobedience, but if it comes to the point where our religious liberty is at
risk, I'd not only participate but would encourage people to resist."
The leaders are urging the public to sign the online document.
Read the full document here
(http://www.demossnews.com/manhattandeclaration/press_kit/manhattan_declaration_signers)
� 2009 Newsmax. All rights reserved.
They'd better read the first amendment. Laws in this country must NOT
respect faith.
lojbab
---
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
loj...@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org
You first, lecornholer.
> Laws in this country must NOT
> respect faith.
Show us where it says that, you insipid fucktard.
Where, you delusional fucktard?
> Case law
Where, you delusional fucktard?
> Constitutional law
Where, you delusional fucktard?
> Present doctrine
I knew you couldn't do it, you delusional fucktard.
Someone has to hold Congress to there oaths, "so help them God"
Bring the War home
Exterminate the American Red Crucifix
god is a piece of shit
exterminate the red crucifix
You mean the oath the Constitution talks about here?:
"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned,
and the members of the several state legislatures,
and all executive and judicial officers, both of
the United States and of the several states, shall
be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this
Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be
required as a qualification to any office or public
trust under the United States."
Constitution of the United States
Notice the explicit separation of religion from
Congressional duties?
Haiku Jones
Come on...nobody is that stupid.
It says no such thing, you delusional fucktard.
It's not even implied, much less explicit.
Who feed you that crap, shit-eater?
Umm whose God are you referring to? If you refer to the God that is
of your faith then so be it however for me I think that the Christian
faith depends far to much on its own pompous and unjustified fear
mongering to "keep the masses in line" as does Muslim and Judaism.
Once we as a people learn that bickering and fighting with each other
only leads to more separation and less understanding. Any one who
refers themselves as leaders need to lead not incite those who choose
to follow, they are after all the spokesmen and women for the sheep
they lead.
You may wish to read and learn what or what not the constitution says.
Haiku is correct in his quote, simply because you don't like or agree
does not change the facts.
Oh, another delusional shiteater...
> Haiku is correct in his quote,
Wow, that must be impressive to a fucktard like you, shiteater.
His is totally delusional in his interpretation of the quote.
Damaged brains...both of you fucktards.
> simply because you don't like or agree
> does not change the facts.
Your delusions are not facts.
That's a common problem among you lib-turd-retards.
Keeerist, you ignorant fucktard, show me where there
is an "explicit separation of religion from Congressional duties"?
Fucktard Jones didn't do it.
Got nothing, eh, retard?
On the contrary why don't you turn in your weapons. Then take your
goddamned deluded conservative teabagging peice of shit family out of
the US. First I ll fuck your momma.
Bring the War home
Nuke Mecca?
"Bombing starts in 5 minutes"
CB, you expose your own preponderate moral relativism
posting this twaddle, without also posting citations to
Romans 13:
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For
there is no power but of God: the powers that be are
ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the
ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to
themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the
evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that
which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if
thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not
the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger
to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath,
but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's
ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
I know that Romans 13 has not just simply slipped your mind,
given your love of citing it during the Administration of DubyaDim.
Hell, you even used it as your sig for a while back then.
Why the sudden arrogant distancing from your past oft cited
beloved scriptural excerpt?
Three examples from your past USENET ravings:
<http://tinyurl.com/yjj6tku>
<http://tinyurl.com/yhamgdd>
<http://tinyurl.com/yk9yohk>
But, since it's only the idiot Democrats that think the US is a
Country,
and it's only idiot Republicans that think the US is a Republic,
the
people who can still think work on MicroComputers, rather than
Turing Machines,
the people who can still read work on Drones, GPS, and Digital
Terrain Mapping,
rather than in the idiot navy, and the people who can still work,
work on
Rapid Prototyping, Digital Books, and the 21st Century, rather
than in the idiot Harvard
Buisness School.
Low live Progressive Gay'wee Roselle doesn't like history because it reminds
him of how America once was.
Communism is his goal through removing God from everything so government may
control the inalienable rights bestowed on man of life, liberty and the
pursuit of the American dream without gubment limits on Energy consumption
or healt'cay rationing.
--
CB
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases:
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops
moving, subsidize it"
-- President Reagan
At least you included the part where if rulers be terrors to the people they
should beware of the wrath of God.
That's where we are today. Do 'we the people' as in the traditions of
America have a national Tea Party and vote corruption out of office?
Or do the corrupt continue to plunder the treasures of the people without
fear of God or man?
--
CB
"Because we honor justice and the common good," it states, "we will
not comply with any edict that purports to compel our institutions to
participate in abortions, embryo-destructive research, assisted suicide or
euthanasia or any other anti-life act; nor will we bend to any rule
purporting to force us to bless immoral sexual partnerships, treat them as
marriages or the equivalent, or refrain from proclaiming the truth, as we
know it, about morality and immorality and marriage and the family."
Religious Leaders Call for Civil Disobedience if Laws Don't Respect Faith
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/wuerl_colson_christian/2009/11/21/289471.html
Is it over yet?
Damn
God is a piece of shit
God is a piece of shit that needs to be flushed from the bowels the
the House of Representative.
> "Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases:
> If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops
> moving, subsidize it"
> -- President Reagan
I want the monitoring device the Reagan administration stuck in my
back out.
Until then the executive branch needs to be destroyed for treason
against the constitution of the USA.
So, the US is not a country or republic, you delusional fucktard??
"Communism"? Geeze, you need to get out more.
Communism is totally outdated as an All Purpose
Boogeyman. You're supposed to be checking
under your bed for Muslims now.
> is his goal through removing God from everything so government may
> control the inalienable rights bestowed on man of life, liberty and the
> pursuit of the American dream
If they can be controlled, then they're not very "inalienable", are
they?
Conan
k.--without gubment limits on Energy consumption
or healt'cay rationing.
No, he did not. Because it doesn't say that at all.
It says clearly that rulers are NOT a terror to good
works ("but to evil")
And then it says that YOU will face the wrath of
God if you do not go along:
But if thou do that which is evil,
be afraid; for he beareth not
the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger
to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
The "thou" this is addressed to is the reader,
not the ruler.
That would be you.
Conan
>
> That's where we are today. Do 'we the people' as in the traditions of
> America have a national Tea Party and vote corruption out of office?
>
> Or do the corrupt continue to plunder the treasures of the people without
> fear of God or man?
>
> --
> CB
> "Because we honor justice and the common good," it states, "we will
> not comply with any edict that purports to compel our institutions to
> participate in abortions, embryo-destructive research, assisted suicide or
> euthanasia or any other anti-life act; nor will we bend to any rule
> purporting to force us to bless immoral sexual partnerships, treat them as
> marriages or the equivalent, or refrain from proclaiming the truth, as we
> know it, about morality and immorality and marriage and the family."
>
> Religious Leaders Call for Civil Disobedience if Laws Don't Respect Faithhttp://www.newsmax.com/headlines/wuerl_colson_christian/2009/11/21/28...
I'm saying:
I knew you couldn't do it, you ignorant fucktard.
It's not there.
You can't show me.
Once again you embarrass yourself by your own statements. Have you
ever considered anger management, or therapy to resolve those issues
you display so blatantly? Might want to invest some time and effort to
reading and learning what your ignorance is showing, Here is a link to
get you started, also you may consider wikipedia as a tool to do some
investigation as many of those in here obviously have.
http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html
Luck to you and those that have to constantly listen to your unfounded
diatribes.
Ignorant nigger
Man on the moon
Greatest expansion in world history
Greatest advancements in the sciences, healt'cay and Education
Electricity to power the light bulb
America is where people migrate too rather than escape from.
You see America as mean, like Michelle Obama and the man child thug,
President. So mean they're trying to steal the wealth of people who planned
for life and gibz it to those like you.
The difference between you an me is I see the good side of people, encourage
them and help them to better them selves.
You demean people and use vulgarity in describing good people. The very
reason I describe your character as, "nigger"
Will you be in the homeless shelter as in years past as a volunteer?
No doubt it's because you've alienated your family and relate better to
other disgruntled, anti-social degenerates.
(this does not include the TEMPORARILY down and out)
I won't wish you a Happy Thanksgiving, I know you have other plans.
The PC and OS your ignorant low life be typing on
"Communism"? Geeze, you need to get out more.
Communism is totally outdated as an All Purpose
Boogeyman. You're supposed to be checking
under your bed for Muslims now.
What do you all wealth distribution under threat of windfall taxes of big
oil, threats of bankruptcy via over regulation of the coal industry and
forced purchase of healt'cay?
> is his goal through removing God from everything so government may
> control the inalienable rights bestowed on man of life, liberty and the
> pursuit of the American dream
If they can be controlled, then they're not very "inalienable", are
they?
You're a good commi
You ignorant fucktard, show me where there
is an "explicit separation of religion from Congressional duties"?
Fucktard Jones didn't do it.
You can't do it, eh fucktard?
What possesses you retards to make shit up?
Show where it IS in the Constitution ->
Does anybody speak hick?
RT
Remove tax exemptions on churches. Now.
That's the America CB wants back - rampant racism.
RT
But that's where Duhbya's buddies are.
Learn to read. And learn that bible you depend on.
It says "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil"
> That's where we are today. Do 'we the people' as in the traditions of
> America have a national Tea Party and vote corruption out of office?
Corruption was voted out last November.
Article VI, stupid.
> It's not even implied, much less explicit.
>
> Who feed you that crap, shit-eater?
The Constitution.
Show otherwise ->
YOUR interpretation ->
Put up or shut up.
Article VI. Show otherwise ->
> Fucktard Jones didn't do it.
> You can't do it, eh fucktard?
>
> What possesses you retards to make shit up?
You're the one making stuff up.
Of course when the dipshits on the left practice civil disobedience,
it's considered the height of American patriotism.
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/wuerl_colson_christian/2009/11/21/28...
>
> Religious Leaders Call for Civil Disobedience if Laws Don't Respect
> Faith
>
> Saturday, November 21, 2009 2:52 PM
>
> A formidable coalition of 150 Catholic, Orthodox and evangelical
> leaders are calling on Christians in a new manifesto to reject secular
> authority - and even engage in civil disobedience - if laws force them to
> accept abortion, same-sex marriage and other ideas that betray their
> religious beliefs.
>
> On Friday, these leaders released a 4,700-word document - called the
> "The Manhattan Declaration: A Call of Christian Conscience."
>
> The document was signed by leaders ranging from evangelical leader
> Chuck Colson to two of the leading Catholic prelates in the U.S., Archbishop
> Donald Wuerl of Washington, D.C. and Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York,
> and calls on Christians to engage in civil disobedience to defend their
> doctrines.
>
> The document also blasts the Obama administration, saying that social
> ills have grown since the election of President Obama, an abortion rights
> advocate, along with an erosion of what it calls "marriage culture" with the
> rise of divorce, greater acceptance of infidelity and the uncoupling of
> marriage from childbearing.
>
> Colson says the project is aimed at instilling social conservative
> beliefs in a new generation of believers.
>
> "We argue that there is a hierarchy of issues," he told The New York
> Times. "A lot of younger evangelicals say they're all alike. We're hoping to
> educate them that these are the three most important issues" - abortion
> marriage and religious liberty.
>
> "We are Orthodox, Catholic, and evangelical Christians who have united
> at this hour to reaffirm fundamental truths about justice and the common
> good, and to call upon our fellow citizens, believers and non-believers
> alike, to join us in defending them," says the declaration, which was
> drafted by Colson, an evangelical, and Princeton University professor Robert
> P. George, a Roman Catholic.
>
> The declaration lists the "fundamental truths" as the "sanctity of
> human life, the dignity of marriage as the conjugal union of husband and
> wife, and the rights of conscience and religious liberty."
>
> "Throughout the centuries, Christianity has taught that civil
> disobedience is not only permitted, but sometimes required," says the
> document which cited civil rights icon Martin Luther King and his
> willingness to go to jail for his beliefs.
>
> "Because we honor justice and the common good," it states, "we will
> not comply with any edict that purports to compel our institutions to
> participate in abortions, embryo-destructive research, assisted suicide or
> euthanasia or any other anti-life act; nor will we bend to any rule
> purporting to force us to bless immoral sexual partnerships, treat them as
> marriages or the equivalent, or refrain from proclaiming the truth, as we
> know it, about morality and immorality and marriage and the family."
>
> George and other signers backed off from specifically defining what
> civil disobedience may entail. Wuerl's office played down the civil
> disobedience wording, saying he wasn't urging Catholics to "do anything
> specific," his spokeswoman Susan Gibbs told The Washington Post. "That
> wasn't something we had talked about."
>
> "We certainly hope it doesn't come to that," said George, who told The
> Washington Times that he has represented a West Virginia resident who has
> refused to pay a portion of her state income tax that funds abortions.
> "However, we see case after case of challenges to religious liberty," such
> as compelling pharmacists to carry abortifacient drugs or health care
> workers to assist in abortions, he added.
>
> "When the limits of conscience are reached and you cannot comply, it's
> better to suffer a wrong than to do it," he said.
>
> Unveiling the declaration Friday, Archbishop Wuerl appeared at a news
> conference in the District of Columbia even as the Church was considering a
> city-proposed compromise on its same-sex marriage measure.
>
> He and other Church officials say the bill would require faith-based
> groups like Catholic Charities to extend benefits to married same-sex
> partners, thus forcing Christians to abandon their religious liberty. On
> Friday, Catholic Charities of Boston halted adoption services rather than
> comply with state law and allow children to be adopted by homosexual
> couples.
>
> Other signatories to the document include Cardinal Justin Rigali,
> outgoing chairman of the U.S. Catholic bishops' Committee for Pro-Life
> Activities; Pentecostal leader Harry Jackson, pastor of a Beltsville church;
> evangelical activist Tony Perkins; and National Association of Evangelicals
> President Leith Anderson.
>
> Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, told Newsweek the
> point of the Declaration is really to avoid mistakes of the past, such as
> when religious leaders did not stand up early enough against no-fault
> divorce, which he says led directly to the breakup of families and high
> divorce rates.
>
> "I'm a former police officer, and I have hard time with civil
> disobedience, but if it comes to the point where our religious liberty is at
> risk, I'd not only participate but would encourage people to resist."
>
> The leaders are urging the public to sign the online document.
>
> Read the full document here
> (http://www.demossnews.com/manhattandeclaration/press_kit/manhattan_de...)
>
> © 2009 Newsmax. All rights reserved.
My friend, aren't you even dimly aware that most of the wonderful
accomplishments of America that you just listed resulted from vigorous
national programs, programs spawned and funded by the Federal
Government?
Of course the rightard religious dipshits don't understand Constitutional principles.
RT
Whoosh right over CB's head.
RT
_______________
Their inventions of the spirit of America, not from the oppressive
government that the nigger described
What has gubment done 'for' us lately?
Enslaved people to serve Mammon, rendering onto Caesar what isn't his
Whoosh, right over the Brown Shirt for Communism
>
> RT
Hey dumbass
United States Constitution - Article VI:
"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office
or public trust under the United States."
You're the one who demands the litmus test prove positive for a Godless
Atheist
You ignorant fucktard, show me where there
is an "explicit separation of religion from Congressional duties".
I knew you couldn't.
It's not there.
Thus the whoosh through the empty head and soul
If you only had an idea and the motovation to see that idea succeed, you too
might have made of life for you an a family...butt then you live in a
dysfunctional lifestyle
>
Your delusions are not facts.
That's a common problem among you lib-turd-retards.
Keeerist, you ignorant fucktard, show me where there
is an "explicit separation of religion from Congressional duties"?
Fucktard Jones didn't do it.
You didn't do it.
What's wrong, fucktard?
Ok the USSC has interpreted that a "wall" exists between
government and religion...
BECAUSE
There is no explicit separation of religion from
Congressional duties.
Glad you've seen the light, you ignorant fucktard.
It's not there, fucktard.
Show me, fucktard.
You can't. It's not there.
> > It's not even implied, much less explicit.
>
> > Who feed you that crap, shit-eater?
>
> The Constitution.
Show me, fucktard.
You can't. It's not there.
> Show otherwise ->
I can't show you something that does not exists, fucktard.
I have, you delusional fucktard.
Gmail "terms and conditions"!
Big brother is watching you!
"When you use Gmail, Google's servers automatically record certain
information about your use of Gmail. Similar to other web services, Google
records information such as account activity (including storage usage,
number of log-ins), data displayed or clicked on (including UI elements,
ads, links); and other log information (including browser type, IP-address,
date and time of access, cookie ID, and referrer URL)."
Go fuck your dog, shit9
Google knows all about you!
Those tards like to double and triple down on stupid.
Go fuck your daddy, shit9
Goodbye!
mrbawana2u reminds you of Gary?
You're a retard's retard, shit9,
one of the most insipid left-turd
retards in the usenet swamp.
>
> Goodbye!
For once in your pathetic life,
don't be lying.
(fat chance, eh fucktard?)
That's my point, you delusional fucktard: It's not there.
Yeah...you're both a class act all right
Another retard's retard.
LIBERALISM (kow-ward) Religion 1. opposed to truth, tradition and founding
principles of American life 2. enemy of God and His Son, Jesus 3. Deceived
by demons to side with Evil, as in useful idiot. 4. Seeks to devour goodness
Leftist: n. fool. The incarnation of the Deceiver and most likely homo or bi
in their sexual devience.
It's a big tent
>
> He defends your ideology
>
> You just don't recognize yourself in what he believes
I don't use vulgarity like you two, not real classy
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 00:10:25 -0500, "CB" <C...@prayforme.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The only thing I've said about blacks and whites dating is of the
>>consequence they must accept as a result. Cultures differ no matter how
>>liberal you think. People identify with their culture and multicultural
>>families, as exotic and diverse political correctness may paint them, are
>>inherently dysfunctional in sharing hereditary identities.
> .
It says that the government cannot establish a religion, which also
implies religious denominations of the Christian religion. Now, if the
government cannot establish or favour one religious group over
another, the government as an institution must be neutral in religious
beliefs. That means that it must hold no religious beliefs at
all.....in other words, it must be secular. That is the position
outlined in the Treaty of Tripoli.
Of course, it cannot prohibit the free exercise of religious beliefs
by anyone (provided that such exercise is within the law....Mormons
cannot practice polygamy), and ensure religious toleration, but to do
this, it must be seen to espouse no religious belief itself.
As marriage is a civil institution, the government ought not to be
influence by religious views in determining its legal staus. The same
goes for legislation relating to abortion.
However, if a religious group does not want to marry a same sex
couple, the government ought not to compel them to do so, since this
would be a breach of the doctrine of the separation of church and
state or religious toleration. Similarly, a government or a medical
institution ought not to compel someone to perform or assist in an
aborion if it offends their conscience. That is the position in
Britain.
Look, if I know these things as a non-American, why don't Americans?
Dr. Barry Worthington
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the
several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers,
both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or
affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall
ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the
United States.
You ignorant hick, what part of "support this Constitution" did you not understand?
Glad you agree.
Getting us out of a couple of quagmires and fixing a broken economy.
> Enslaved people to serve Mammon, rendering onto Caesar what isn't his
That's what republicons do.
> Whoosh, right over the Brown Shirt for Communism
Whoosh, right over the useful fool's head.
RT