biblical/moral principles in Constitution.
buckeye
Texas Faith: Religion's role at the Democratic National Convention
10:05 AM Tue, Aug 26, 2008 |
William McKenzie
Welcome to Texas Faith, our new discussion of religion, politics and
culture. Texas Faith is a weekly online feature that will draw upon the
expertise of clergy, laity and academics in Texas to debate, discuss and
define the intersection of these volatile topics.
Our opening topic of the week revolves around the Democratic convention. We
put this question to our panel:
From Faith Caucus meetings to panel discussions on morality to debates
about an Obama administration and religion, the Democratic convention is
spotlighting an enormous amount of explicit religious content. What does
this mean? Is this appropriate?
http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/08/post-74.html
[excerpt]
LYNN GODSEY, Pastor, Temple of Power Ministries, Ennis, Texas; founder,
Alliance of Hispanic Evangelical Ministers
What does this mean? The Democratic Party "woke up" after our last
presidential election and realized that the "religious vote" is a vote to
be acknowledged and not shunned.
Our founding fathers "wove" biblical/moral principles into our
Constitution.
Can anyone point out the clauses that contain these
"biblical/moral principles"
[end excerpt]
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
qwerty
<Nic...@Click.com> wrote in message
news:44ufb4houcu1l280u...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:03:29 -0400, buckeye
> <bucke...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>Our founding fathers "wove" biblical/moral principles into our
>>Constitution.
>
> right that we pray to Britain.
They also "wove Pagan" law into, Democracy is an ancient Greek system and
they were pagans. In addtion the pagans of North America, aka the Iroqois
Condferacy also influenced the Constitution.!
Jack
Bob T.
> > the Iroqois Condferacy also influenced the Constitution.!
>
> really?
Really: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#Example_to_the_United_States
"The Iroquois nations' political union and democratic government has
been credited as one of the influences on the Articles of
Confederation and the United States Constitution.[10][11] However,
there is heated debate among historians about the importance of their
contribution. Historian Jack Rakove[12] writes: "The voluminous
records we have for the constitutional debates of the late 1780s
contain no significant references to the Iroquois." Researcher Brian
Cook writes: "The Iroquois probably held some sway over the thinking
of the Framers and the development of the U.S. Constitution and the
development of American democracy, albeit perhaps indirectly or even
subconsciously... However, the opposition is probably also correct.
The Iroquois influence is not as great as [some historians] would like
it to be, the framers simply did not revere or even understand much of
Iroquois culture, and their influences were European or classical -
not wholly New World."[13] However, Cook concedes that much of the
heated debate around the influence of Amerindians on the United States
Constitution amounts to academic knee-jerk reactions and protectionist
turf-wars. Cook further notes "The National Endowment for the
Humanities rejected a number of research proposals that dealt with the
Iroquois influence theory... [and] Johansen's first book on the
Iroquois influence, Forgotten Fathers, was ordered removed from the
shelves of the bookstore at Independence Hall."
Although their influence is hotly debated, it is a historical fact
that several founding fathers had direct contact with the Iroquois,
and prominent figures such as Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin
were closely involved with the Iroquois, their stronger and larger
native neighbor. Whether this was purely politics for protection or
true admiration, perhaps can never be fully determined.
In 2004 the U.S. Government acknowledged the influence of the Iroquois
Constitution on the U.S. Framers.[14] The Smithsonian Institution also
noted the similarities between the two documents, as well as the
differences. One significant difference noted was the inclusion of
women in the Iroquois Constitution, one group among many that the
framers of the U.S. Constitution did not include."
- Bob T.
morgan mair fheal
"qwerty" <nos...@all.noway.com> wrote:
> <Nic...@Click.com> wrote in message
> news:44ufb4houcu1l280u...@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:03:29 -0400, buckeye
> > <bucke...@nospam.net> wrote:
> >
> >>Our founding fathers "wove" biblical/moral principles into our
> >>Constitution.
> >
> > They also "wove English" law into it---but doesn't seem
> > right that we pray to Britain.
>
> They also "wove Pagan" law into, Democracy is an ancient Greek system and
actually its based on pagan germanic tribal law
many german tribes had some democratic aspect to them
with norway being the oldest democracy still running
and iceland and england also being long running democracies
arf meow arf - raggedy ann and andy for president and vice
limp and spineless lint for brains is better yet and nice
then rueing pair of shrub and dick the republican lice
call me desdenova seven seven seven seven seven seven
buckeye
>:|On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:03:29 -0400, buckeye
>:|<bucke...@nospam.net> wrote:
>:|
>:|>Our founding fathers "wove" biblical/moral principles into our
>:|>Constitution.
>:|
>:|They also "wove English" law into it---
Did they?
Perhaps, perhaps not
Liz - here are our contributions. If we had more time, we have the
material here and could have refuted each of his points in both affidavits
probably. As it is we picked out several points that no one else had seemed
to address directly and concentrated on those.
1. Clergy in the courtroom; prayer in the courtroom.
Eidsmoe's first affidavit characterizes the practice of prayer in the
courtroom as commonplace at or around the time of the drafting and
ratification of the Constitution. He cites as examples a number of
New England federal circuit court cases which entreated clergy to "address
the throne of Grace" as evidence that such practices were accepted. John
Jay's stellar reputation excepted, the following quote from a 1919 work on
John Marshall notes a slightly different interpretation of clergy-courtroom
politics. From Vol. III. The Life of John Marshall (Boston: Houghton
Mifflin Company, 1916-19, Beveridge, Albert J.):
"But if the National judges had caused alarm by treating the common law as
though it were a statute of the United States without waiting for an act of
Congress to make it so, their manners and methods in the enforcement of the
Sedition Act aroused against them an ever increasing hostility.
"Stories of their performances on the bench in such cases -- their
tones when speaking to counsel, to accused persons, and even to witnesses,
their immoderate language, their sympathy with one of the European nations
then at war and their animosity toward the other, their partisanship in
cases on trial before them -- tales made up from such material flew from
mouth to mouth until finally the very name and sight of National judges
became obnoxious to most Americans. In short, the assaults upon the
National Judiciary were made possible chielfy by the conduct of the
National judges themselvcs." (l)
Footnote (1) says:
(1) The National judges, in their charges to grand juries, lectured
and preached on religion, on morality, on partisan politics.
"On Monday last the Circuit Court of the United States was opened
in this town. The Hen. Judge Patterson .. delivered a most elegant
and appropriate charge.
"The Law was laid down in a masterly manner: Politics were set in
their true light by holding up the Jacobins [Republicans] as the disor-
ganizers of our happy country, and the only instruments of introduc-
ing discontent and dissatisfaction among the well meaning part of the
community. Religion. & Morality were pleasingly inculcated and en-
forced as being necessary to good government, good order, and good
laws; fpr 'when the righteous [Federalists] are in authority, the people
rejoice.' . .
"After the charge was delivered the Rev. Mr. Alden addressed the
Throne of Grace in an excellent and well adapted prayer." (Uniled
States Oracle of the Day, May 24, 1800, as quoted by Hackett, in
Green Bao. 11. 264)
(SOURCE OF ABOVE MATERAL: THE LIFE OF JOHN MARSHALL, By Albert J. Beveridge
Volume III Conflict and construction, 1800-1815, Houghton Mifflin Company
(1918) page 29-30. Additional background material included covering pages
26 -33, all under the title of EXHIBIT A)
buckeye
>:|
>:|Our founding fathers "wove" biblical/moral principles into our
>:|Constitution.
>:|
>:|Can anyone point out the clauses that contain these
>:| "biblical/moral principles"
>:|[end excerpt]
>:|
Five replies as or right now but not a single one actually addressed the
question that was asked
At least some of the replies even seem to accept such biblical/moral
principles were "woven" into the Constitution.
RhymeCon
> On Aug 29, 9:43 am, "Jack" <furgfurgf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > the Iroqois Condferacy also influenced the Constitution.!
>
> > really?
>
> Really:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#Example_to_the_United_States
>
> "The Iroquois nations' political union and democratic government has
> been credited as one of the influences on the Articles of
> Confederation and the United States Constitution.[10][11] However,
> there is heated debate among historians about the importance of their
> contribution. Historian Jack Rakove[12] writes: "The voluminous
> records we have for the constitutional debates of the late 1780s
Interesting! I wish I were a better student of history but maybe you
could answer this: about 11 years ago I wrote a Flag Day special for
our newspaper about our flag's history and included "The first
Congress was so preoccupied with the war for independence that it
never occurred to them how much the new country needed a national
symbol. The Indian Nation asked them to adopt a flag, and sent three
strings of wampum to cover expenses." I had found this in our public
library but didn't make a note of the source. I've always wondered
just who that "Indian Nation" was. Assuming it's true, could it have
been the Iroquois Confederacy?