Sorry, Homies, But For Blacks To GROW, Hip-Hop's Gotta GO!
Kyle Schwitters
python-grip of hip-hop, and by extension the street, we are not going
to see any real progress."
-- Thomas Chatterton Williams
He's correct. Many, if not most black youths in the U.S. act, or feel
like, they're "too cool for school." And here school is a symbol for
all institutions and endeavors that are the pathways and goals of
thinking caucasians, orientals, and latinos in America.
But the "too cool" attitude is exactly what's keeping American blacks
from helping themselves to any aspects of the "American Dream."
Rage, guns, knives, gangs, drugs, rape, prison, misogyny,
prostitution, self-hatred, low-self-esteem --all are integral parts of
a black culture that is wholly self-destructive.
It's the same collective low-self-image, and untutored thought
processes, that cause blacks to burn down THEIR OWN NEIGHBORHOODS when
there's an urban "race riot."
When, somehow, someday blacks stop hating themselves, they might make
some headway in uplifting their culture -- and their futures.
Otherwise, it'll be just more of the same. Except that by 2020 or
sooner, ordinary blacks will be the absolute door mats for all U.S.
cultural groups.
How cool is that? How cool will that be?
---------------------------
"Black Culture Beyond Hip-Hop"
By Thomas Chatterton Williams
Monday, May 28, 2007; A17
The Washington Post
Over the past three decades black culture has grown so conflated with
hip-hop culture that for most Americans under the age of 45, hip-hop
culture is black culture. Except that it's not.
During the controversy over Don Imus's comments this spring, the radio
host was pilloried for using the same sexist language that is
condoned, if not celebrated, in hip-hop music and culture. As the
scandal evolved, some critics, including the Rev. Al Sharpton and the
NAACP, shifted their attention to the rap industry. Indeed, every
couple of years, it seems, we ask ourselves: Is hip-hop poisonous? Is
it misogynistic, violent and nihilistic? What kind of message is it
sending?
But what critics consistently fail to emphasize in these sporadic
storms of opprobrium, as most did during the Imus affair, is that the
stakes transcend hip-hop: Black culture itself is in trouble.
Born in the projects of the South Bronx, tweaked to its gangsta form
in the 'hoods of South Central Los Angeles and dumbed down
unconscionably in the ghettos of the "Dirty South" (the original
Confederate states, minus Missouri and Kentucky), there are no two
ways about it -- hip-hop culture is not black culture, it's black
street culture. Despite 40 years of progress since the civil rights
movement, in the hip-hop era -- from the late 1970s onward -- black
America, uniquely, began receiving its values, aesthetic sensibility
and self-image almost entirely from the street up.
This is a major departure for blacks, who traditionally saw
cultivation as a key to equality. Think of the days when W.E.B. Du
Bois "[sat] with Shakespeare" and moved "arm in arm with Balzac"; or
when Ralph Ellison waxed universal and spoke of the need "to extend
one's humanity and one's knowledge of human life."
The historian Paul Fussell notes that for most Americans, it is
difficult to "class sink." Try to imagine the Chinese American son of
oncologists -- living in, say, a New York suburb such as Westchester,
attending private school -- who feels subconsciously compelled to
model his life, even if only superficially, on that of a Chinese
mafioso dealing heroin on the Lower East Side. The cultural pressure
for a middle-class Chinese American to walk, talk and act like a lower-
class thug from Chinatown is nil. The same can be said of Jews, or of
any other ethnic group.
But in black America the folly is so commonplace it fails to attract
serious attention. Like neurotics obsessed with amputating their own
healthy limbs, middle-class blacks concerned with "keeping it real"
are engaging in gratuitously self-destructive and violently
masochistic behavior.
Sociologists have a term for this pathological facet of black life.
It's called "cool-pose culture."
Whatever the nomenclature, "cool pose" or keeping it real or something
else entirely, this peculiar aspect of the contemporary black
experience -- the inverted-pyramid hierarchy of values stemming from
the glorification of lower-class reality in the hip-hop era -- has
quietly taken the place of white racism as the most formidable
obstacle to success and equality in the black middle classes.
As John H. McWhorter emphasizes in his book "Losing the Race: Self-
Sabotage in Black America," "forty years after the Civil Rights Act,
African-American students on the average are the weakest in the United
States, at all ages, in all subjects, and regardless of class level."
Reading and math proficiency test results consistently show this.
Clearly, this nostalgie de la boue, this longing for the mud, exacts a
hefty price.
A 2005 study by Roland G. Fryer of Harvard University crystallizes the
point: While there is scarce dissimilarity in popularity levels among
low-achieving students, black or white, Fryer finds that "when a
student achieves a 2.5 GPA, clear differences start to emerge." At 3.5
and above, black students "tend to have fewer and fewer friends," even
as their high-achieving white peers "are at the top of the popularity
pyramid." With such pressure to be real, to not "act white," is it any
wonder that the African American high school graduation rate has
stagnated at 70 percent for the past three decades?
Until black culture as a whole is effectively disentangled from the
python-grip of hip-hop, and by extension the street, we are not going
to see any real progress.
The writer is a graduate student in the Cultural Reporting and
Criticism program at New York University. He also works for n+1
magazine, a semiannual journal of literature.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/27/AR2007052700926.html?sub=AR
\/\/ORD@true.nog
suntzu
> The historian Paul Fussell notes that for most Americans, it is
> difficult to "class sink." Try to imagine the Chinese American son of
> oncologists -- living in, say, a New York suburb such as Westchester,
> attending private school -- who feels subconsciously compelled to
> model his life, even if only superficially, on that of a Chinese
> mafioso dealing heroin on the Lower East Side. The cultural pressure
> for a middle-class Chinese American to walk, talk and act like a lower-
> class thug from Chinatown is nil. The same can be said of Jews, or of
> any other ethnic group.
>
i hate to feel the trolls, but seriously? you've never met any rich
asian kids that acted all thugged out? because i've smoked blunts with
a few.
> The writer is a graduate student in the Cultural Reporting and
> Criticism program at New York University. He also works for n+1
> magazine, a semiannual journal of literature.
>
the writer is a fucking fool. i hope this guy isn't representative of
what his program turns out. this article is all shaky extrapolation
based on unsubstantiated claims. the one study he cites (if you follow
the link to the article) is from the notoriously conservative hoover
institute.
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/27/AR2007052700926.html?sub=AR
>
Jasper Towing-Dragging Co, LLCC
"suntzu" <sun...@removethispart.freeshell.andthistoo.org> wrote in message
news:f3fig0$or2$1...@news.Stanford.EDU...
>
> the writer is a fucking fool. i hope this guy isn't representative of
> what his program turns out. this article is all shaky extrapolation
> based on unsubstantiated claims. the one study he cites (if you follow
> the link to the article) is from the notoriously conservative hoover
> institute.
you'd prefer the NYT, WashPost, or Daily KOS, right ?
or maybe the lates Michael Moore 'documentary' ?
Bob LeChevalier
>"Until black culture as a whole is effectively disentangled from the
>python-grip of hip-hop, and by extension the street, we are not going
>to see any real progress."
>
> -- Thomas Chatterton Williams
So, some turkey doesn't like some group's choice of music. What
plausible relevance does that have to "progress".
>He's correct. Many, if not most black youths in the U.S. act, or feel
>like, they're "too cool for school."
What does that have to do with their choice of music?
>And here school is a symbol for
>all institutions and endeavors that are the pathways and goals of
>thinking caucasians, orientals, and latinos in America.
Ah, but school is NOT such a symbol, and the fact that you used the
adjective "thinking" applied to a racial term, shows that you are
merely another subhuman racist slime who is incapable of thinking.
>But the "too cool" attitude is exactly what's keeping American blacks
>from helping themselves to any aspects of the "American Dream."
When you have more money than Oprah or Robert Johnson, then you might
have a point. Let us know when you make your first billion.
Otherwise you are just a subhuman racist slime who thinks that putting
down some other group might raise you from the muck.
>Rage, guns, knives, gangs, drugs, rape, prison, misogyny,
>prostitution, self-hatred, low-self-esteem --all are integral parts of
>a black culture that is wholly self-destructive.
Every single one of those things is present in every other culture.
>It's the same collective low-self-image, and untutored thought
>processes, that cause
... racist slime to blather on endlessly.
>blacks to burn down THEIR OWN NEIGHBORHOODS when
>there's an urban "race riot."
Of course, then you have to explain the non-blacks of Ireland who
burned down their own neighborhoods for decades, the French, whose
student riots every decade or two burn down their own neighborhoods
and incidentally paralyze the economy, etc. Nothing to do with
"race".
>When, somehow, someday blacks stop hating themselves, they might make
>some headway in uplifting their culture -- and their futures.
>
>Otherwise, it'll be just more of the same. Except that by 2020 or
>sooner, ordinary blacks will be the absolute door mats for all U.S.
>cultural groups.
If you have your way, that will be the case. Unfortunately for you,
the numbers of Oprahs and Bob Johnsons continue to grow, and therefore
to prove you wrong.
>How cool is that? How cool will that be?
Way more cool than a subhuman racist slime, who has a place in hell
already roasting for him.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
[racist nonsense]
The subhuman racist slime earns its name every day. They're invincibly
ignorant.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
I prefer not citing any op-ed piece as if it were fact.
lojbab
Wabenzi Prince
Wabenzi Prince
Wabenzi Prince
Wabenzi Prince
Wabenzi Prince
suntzu
this story is from the washington post, dipshit.
i'd prefer a story that didn't wantonly mix anecdotal evidence with
statistics in an attempt to lend an air of legitimacy to the writer's
unfounded extrapolations. regardless of the source.
Bob LeChevalier
>Jasper Towing-Dragging Co, LLCC wrote:
>> "suntzu" <sun...@removethispart.freeshell.andthistoo.org> wrote in message
>> news:f3fig0$or2$1...@news.Stanford.EDU...
>>> the writer is a fucking fool. i hope this guy isn't representative of
>>> what his program turns out. this article is all shaky extrapolation
>>> based on unsubstantiated claims. the one study he cites (if you follow
>>> the link to the article) is from the notoriously conservative hoover
>>> institute.
>>
>> you'd prefer the NYT, WashPost, or Daily KOS, right ?
>
>this story is from the washington post, dipshit.
It is NOT a "story". It is an op-ed piece - an opinion by someone
with no particular expertise in the subject. It thus has no more
truth value than the typical Usenet post; unlike Usenet posts,
however, there is almost zero chance that the author will read
responses to his copyrighted text being illegally spread around
Usenet.
lojbab
Your name
news:1180378704.2...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>
> "Until black culture as a whole is effectively disentangled from the
> python-grip of hip-hop, and by extension the street, we are not going
> to see any real progress."
>
> -- Thomas Chatterton Williams
What about the days pre Hiphop
Don't blame hiphop
the blame has to be at the parents door
It is the responsibilty of the parent to instruct and direct their
offspring down the right path and equip them to deal with life.
There are plenty of successful parents of all creeds and colours in this
respect just as there are many who shouldn't have children.
Look inward to find the solution rather than outward.
Your name
> Rage, guns, knives, gangs, drugs, rape, prison, misogyny,
> prostitution, self-hatred, low-self-esteem --all are integral parts of
> a black culture that is wholly self-destructive.
>
It ain't specific to the "BLACK Community" it happens in all other
communities too.
It is more a social/class issue
That is not to say that lower socio-econ groups dont have moral rectitude.
Your name
> "Black Culture Beyond Hip-Hop"
>
BLACK CULTURE:
I do wish people stop perpetuating this misconception
WTF is BLACK CULTURE
People talk about it as if it is homengenous
A bit lke saying -all blacks look alike
There isn't a one black culture -there are many
suntzu
op-ed doesn't mean that the person is allowed to have no expertise,
since an opinion without expertise is pretty much worthless. even more
irritating in this case, the author gives the air of expertise with the
assertions that he makes. a good op-ed should have a less tenuous
connection to reality than the one in question.
Bob LeChevalier
>Bob LeChevalier wrote:
>> suntzu <sun...@removethispart.freeshell.andthistoo.org> wrote:
>>> Jasper Towing-Dragging Co, LLCC wrote:
>>>> "suntzu" <sun...@removethispart.freeshell.andthistoo.org> wrote in message
>>>> news:f3fig0$or2$1...@news.Stanford.EDU...
>>>>> the writer is a fucking fool. i hope this guy isn't representative of
>>>>> what his program turns out. this article is all shaky extrapolation
>>>>> based on unsubstantiated claims. the one study he cites (if you follow
>>>>> the link to the article) is from the notoriously conservative hoover
>>>>> institute.
>>>> you'd prefer the NYT, WashPost, or Daily KOS, right ?
>>> this story is from the washington post, dipshit.
>>
>> It is NOT a "story". It is an op-ed piece - an opinion by someone
>> with no particular expertise in the subject. It thus has no more
>> truth value than the typical Usenet post; unlike Usenet posts,
>> however, there is almost zero chance that the author will read
>> responses to his copyrighted text being illegally spread around
>> Usenet.
>
Of course it is. Anyone can write an opinion, and anyone can find a
whole bunch of places to have the opinion published. Places like the
Washington Post may require a higher standard of writing to get
published, but not necessarily a higher standard of facts. Surely you
don't think that Richard Cohen (one long-time regular columnist on the
Post op-ed page) is particularly expert on anything other than coming
up with interesting topics to write about, and then writing them in a
well-written and provocative manner. The Post regularly publishes
letters to the editor that are banal and trivial. Op-ed pieces need a
higher level of coherence to justify the larger space provided, but
expertise isn't what will get you the space.
>since an opinion without expertise is pretty much worthless.
Yes, it is, other than as entertainment value. But some people like
to read the opinions of others for entertainment.
>even more irritating in this case, the author gives the air of expertise with the
>assertions that he makes.
The people who get published have a knack for writing that way.
>a good op-ed should have a less tenuous connection to reality than the one in question.
Who said that it was a good op-ed?
George Bush and Dick Cheney can get most anything they write (or have
written for them) published, on any topic, regardless of how tenuous
the connection of what they have to say with reality. Their names
provide the "air of authority". Most any Senator, Congressman, or
Governor can write on almost any topic, and they'll be able to get
space on the Post op-ed page.
Someone with a lesser name merely has to write with more "air of
authority" than they actually possess. "Expertise" has little to do
with it, except that a good-sounding or relevant title might give
someone more "air of authority".
Look at William Shockley on race or Linus Pauling on Vitamin C for an
example of someone not in politics who used their title (Nobel
Laureate) to grant them an air of authority that they did not actually
have in the fields they wrote op-eds about.
In less prestigious forums, than the Post, the standards are even
lower. Surely you don't think the people published in WorldNetDaily
have much expertise in the tripe they write?
lojbab
Jasper Towing-Dragging Co, LLCC
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:avqq53phbt41h0fjm...@4ax.com...
> suntzu <sun...@removethispart.freeshell.andthistoo.org> wrote:
> >> It is NOT a "story". It is an op-ed piece - an opinion by someone
> >> with no particular expertise in the subject. It thus has no more
> >> truth value than the typical Usenet post; unlike Usenet posts,
> >> however, there is almost zero chance that the author will read
> >> responses to his copyrighted text being illegally spread around
> >> Usenet.
> >
> >op-ed doesn't mean that the person is allowed to have no expertise,
>
> Of course it is.
so you are saying that having expertise disqualifies one from writing an
op-ed piece ?
one_blac...@earthlink.net
I agree that there is a cultural issue. I don't think it is
synonymous with hop-hop thogh. Also I think simply pointing out
everything you see as "bad" in a culture rarely has any positive
effect.
I think it's more the absence of black people actively moving black
culture in a positive direction than the presence of "bad" elements
that is the problem. Positive over negative. If you don't take control
of your own culture, some one else will, and of course they will use
your culture to make themselves money, not to benefit you.
Unfortunately, not too many people see black philosophy and culture as
an important focus anymore.
kkd...@bellsouth.net
to help you, by saying look in the mirror, the race card comes out.
Hey ya'll save that race card for real KKK'ers your crying wolf way
too much and makeing it meaningless.
Bob LeChevalier
>>op-ed doesn't mean that the person is allowed to have no expertise,
>
>Of course it is. Anyone can write an opinion, and anyone can find a
>whole bunch of places to have the opinion published. Places like the
>Washington Post may require a higher standard of writing to get
>published, but not necessarily a higher standard of facts. Surely you
>don't think that Richard Cohen (one long-time regular columnist on the
>Post op-ed page) is particularly expert on anything other than coming
>up with interesting topics to write about, and then writing them in a
>well-written and provocative manner. The Post regularly publishes
>letters to the editor that are banal and trivial. Op-ed pieces need a
>higher level of coherence to justify the larger space provided, but
>expertise isn't what will get you the space.
>
>>since an opinion without expertise is pretty much worthless.
>
>Yes, it is, other than as entertainment value. But some people like
>to read the opinions of others for entertainment.
I should have mentioned Rush Limbaugh at this point. He doesn't write
his op-eds, but rather he talks them. His brother David is a
well-known op-ed writer. No more expert at anything other than
pleasing his audience.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
No. Writing an op-ed piece says nothing about the expertise of the
person writing it. Expertise is completely orthogonal to
publishability.
Well, almost.
I will say that most issues that are controversial are also somewhat
complex. There are some rare writers who can express complex issues
in a way that preserves the information content; more often the truly
expert person knows too much and tries to convey too much with the
result an unreadable jargon-ridden mess. But there are such people as
Carl Sagan, so indeed expertise doesn't disqualify, merely makes the
job of pleasing a layperson (especially a bigoted close-minded
ideologue) a good bit harder.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
>I agree that there is a cultural issue. I don't think it is
>synonymous with hop-hop thogh. Also I think simply pointing out
>everything you see as "bad" in a culture rarely has any positive
>effect.
>
>I think it's more the absence of black people actively moving black
>culture in a positive direction than the presence of "bad" elements
>that is the problem. Positive over negative. If you don't take control
>of your own culture, some one else will, and of course they will use
>your culture to make themselves money, not to benefit you.
Google on Freeman Hrabowski III, president of U Maryland Baltimore
(UMBC). He had a good writeup in the Post today (that wasn't in the
op-ed section, and actually has some facts therefore).
There are black leaders out there, but they don't make the news as
much, and they certainly don't get any attention from the subhuman
racist slime that likes to pollute the net with threads like this one.
They'd rather pretend that an op-ed piece that agrees with their
racist ideology is "fact".
lojbab
Jasper Towing-Dragging Co, LLCC
so you would prefer complex issues to be explained by idiots rather than
experts ?
Bob LeChevalier
No. But the general public seems to, since they accept the likes of
Rush Limbaugh and the World Net Daily crew.
And you subhuman racist slime do, because you ARE idiots incapable of
understanding anything else.
Myself, I would prefer that there be less noise written, and more time
spent doing a better job of research and writing.
But that doesn't sell newspapers (nor whatever is being advertised on
the media in question that is actually paying for publication).
lojbab
Jasper Towing-Dragging Co, LLCC
> "Jasper Towing-Dragging Co, LLCC" <jaspt...@townigs.com> wrote:
> >> I will say that most issues that are controversial are also somewhat
> >> complex. There are some rare writers who can express complex issues
> >> in a way that preserves the information content; more often the truly
> >> expert person knows too much and tries to convey too much with the
> >> result an unreadable jargon-ridden mess. But there are such people as
> >> Carl Sagan, so indeed expertise doesn't disqualify, merely makes the
> >> job of pleasing a layperson (especially a bigoted close-minded
> >> ideologue) a good bit harder.
> >
> >so you would prefer complex issues to be explained by idiots rather than
> >experts ?
>
> No. But the general public seems to, since they accept the likes of
> Rush Limbaugh and the World Net Daily crew.
HAHAHA
Rush would blow your ass out of the water one-on-one
and you know it
>
> And you subhuman racist slime do, because you ARE idiots incapable of
> understanding anything else.
what's with the personal attacks, Bobby ?
did I hit too close to home ?
>
> Myself, I would prefer that there be less noise written
Then turn off your computer, do us all a favor
mochaspresso
> http://oneblackcitizen.blogspot.com/
>
> I agree that there is a cultural issue. I don't think it is
> synonymous with hop-hop thogh. Also I think simply pointing out
> everything you see as "bad" in a culture rarely has any positive
> effect.
>
> I think it's more the absence of black people actively moving black
> culture in a positive direction than the presence of "bad" elements
> that is the problem. Positive over negative. If you don't take control
> of your own culture, some one else will, and of course they will use
> your culture to make themselves money, not to benefit you.
>
There isn't an absence by any means. People simply refuse to see and
acknowledge it. America loves to embrace the negative.
Amy Winehouse sings about drugs and readily admits her addiction, no
less, and it's "artistic" and "fresh" and "Innovative" and "retro".
Any given rapper writes a song about drugs and it's reviled.
I could watch the media on any given day and would it be fair for me
to make assumptions about an entire race of people based on what I've
seen? Lindsey Lohan, Paris Hilton, Ty Pennington, Britney Spears,
Alec Baldwin, Anna Nicole Smith, George W. Bush etc etc. White
people, when you see these stories in the news, have people around you
ever tried to put you in a position where you have to feel embarassed
for your entire race based on the bad behavior of a few public
figures? How would you feel if someone constantly did that to you?
How would you feel if the media appointed Rosie O'donnell as the
ultimate spokesperson for all of white america, simply because she has
a loud mouth and always puts herself in the middle of some
controversy?
The racist contingent needs to listen very carefully when I say this.
If I were like you......ignorant and prone to basing my perceptions
solely on what is portrayed in the selective and biased media that you
choose to limit yourselves to (hint hint), I would think that ALL
white people were the nastiest skankiest whoremonging evil race on the
planet.
> Unfortunately, not too many people see black philosophy and culture as
> an important focus anymore.
>
Looking for it SOLELY in a hip-hop newsgroup (it's just music, after
all) is akin to me looking for philosophy and culture SOLELY in
alt.tv.american-idol.
......Sanjaya for President!!
> http://oneblackcitizen.blogspot.com/
Bob LeChevalier
>> No. But the general public seems to, since they accept the likes of
>> Rush Limbaugh and the World Net Daily crew.
>
>HAHAHA
>
>Rush would blow your ass out of the water one-on-one
Rush wouldn't know a fact if it bit him in his drug-sodden ass, and HE
knows it. He is in the entertainment business, not the news business.
>> And you subhuman racist slime do, because you ARE idiots incapable of
>> understanding anything else.
>
>what's with the personal attacks, Bobby ?
As long as you slime keep posting your nonsense to the education
newsgroup, you will continue to get both barrels from me. Nothing
personal about it. I will not tolerate slime pollution, and you are
one I recognize as a polluter of the newsgroup.
lojbab
Jasper Towing-Dragging Co, LLCC
says the pathetic whigger who keeps 'the education newsgroup' in the list of
groups to reply to............
self-fulfilling prophecy, little Bobby ?
you NEED an excuse for personal attacks and conveniently provide it
Bob LeChevalier
>you NEED an excuse for personal attacks and conveniently provide it
I need no excuse, slime. You pollution deserve the fate your Nazi
friends intended for others. I am going easy on you by their
standards.
lojbab
Cary Kittrell
>
> "Jasper Towing-Dragging Co, LLCC" <jaspt...@townigs.com> wrote:
> >> No. But the general public seems to, since they accept the likes of
> >> Rush Limbaugh and the World Net Daily crew.
> >
> >HAHAHA
> >
> >Rush would blow your ass out of the water one-on-one
>
> Rush wouldn't know a fact if it bit him in his drug-sodden ass, and HE
> knows it. He is in the entertainment business, not the news business.
Limbaugh undeniably has a talent for standup, but is notoriously
poor at thinking-on-your-feet debate. Some people are good
at suchlike, and some aren't. Rush isn't. Which is why
pains are taken to prevent such a thing happening, and
why I've no doubt that Bob -- and any number of other
people -- could trounce him in the kind of situation that
he, wisely, avoids.
-- cary
Chairman Mao says:
You must blame Whitey somewhere for failures.
Then vote for a liberal-demoncrap to fix the problem.
"Kyle Schwitters" <slipu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1180378704.2...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> "Until black culture as a whole is effectively disentangled from the
> python-grip of hip-hop, and by extension the street, we are not going
> to see any real progress."
>
> -- Thomas Chatterton Williams
>
>
> He's correct. Many, if not most black youths in the U.S. act, or feel
> like, they're "too cool for school." And here school is a symbol for
> all institutions and endeavors that are the pathways and goals of
> thinking caucasians, orientals, and latinos in America.
>
> But the "too cool" attitude is exactly what's keeping American blacks
> from helping themselves to any aspects of the "American Dream."
>
> Rage, guns, knives, gangs, drugs, rape, prison, misogyny,
> prostitution, self-hatred, low-self-esteem --all are integral parts of
> a black culture that is wholly self-destructive.
>
> Until black culture as a whole is effectively disentangled from the
> python-grip of hip-hop, and by extension the street, we are not going
> to see any real progress.
>
Chairman Mao says:
France is a failure...
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:vsks539l5ee5fkvpd...@4ax.com...
Chairman Mao says:
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:58fr539silffc6r0m...@4ax.com...
Bob LeChevalier
>looks like that French name of yours = French mindset.
How would that follow? Do you really think that two great
grandparents who died more than 30 years before I was born had a lot
of effect on me? (And when they left France it had an enormous
colonial empire. Not that it matters.)
>France is a failure...
Not hardly. They don't have the goals that we have. People still go
to France for haute culture and good food, though.
Never been there myself, of course. I'm not a big traveller.
I'm also not a subhuman racist slime, like the people who started this
thread. Talk about failures!!! There ain't no loser like a racist
loser.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
I am a racist too. But I am not proud of it, and I work to change
things.
There are actually very few subhuman racist slimes, who are proud of
their racism and tout their nonsense all over the net in the futile
hope of staving off their inevitable elimination.
lojbab
Occidental
> >Everyone is a racist except people like you, right?
Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
> I am a racist too.
You mean you are racist merely because you spontaneously make racial
distinctions based on appearance? Or because, having made such
distinctions, you find yourself judging members of some groups to be
inferior despite wishing to judge them as equals?
> But I am not proud of it, and I work to change
> things.
"things"? Has it occurred to you that the abuse you use against anyone
who acknowledges the existence of race or of racial distinctions is
simply an unconscious strategem to deal with self-disgust?
Chairman Mao says:
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:vndu539oemn2grmai...@4ax.com...
Bob LeChevalier
>I will say at least you're one of the few honest liberals out there.
I'm not a liberal, except maybe to those who think that Attila the Hun
was a liberal. I am fiscally conservative, and socially tending
towards conservative but tolerant of others who aren't. I detest
extremists of both the left and the right and consider ideology a
plague.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
>> "Chairman Mao says:" <Mao-ze-D...@prc.com> wrote:
>> >Everyone is a racist except people like you, right?
>
>Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
>> I am a racist too.
>
>You mean you are racist merely because you spontaneously make racial
>distinctions based on appearance? Or because, having made such
>distinctions, you find yourself judging members of some groups to be
>inferior despite wishing to judge them as equals?
Yes (to both).
>> But I am not proud of it, and I work to change
>> things.
>
>"things"? Has it occurred to you that the abuse you use against anyone
>who acknowledges the existence of race or of racial distinctions is
>simply an unconscious strategem to deal with self-disgust?
It is not unconscious at all. The only way to eliminate racism in our
society is to make racism a social taboo. My kids are far less likely
to be racist than I am; they grew up in an integrated society with no
one consciously teaching them that racial differences were real.
There is hope, if the virulent racists would crawl in their holes and
rot away in their hatred.
lojbab
Chairman Mao says:
What about this hate crime?
Indictment in Columbia Grad Student Rape
By SAMUEL MAULL
Updated: 47 minutes ago
NEW YORK - Saliva from a trash basket where an ex-convict spat contained DNA
that matched skin cells from a T-shirt worn by a man accused of raping and
torturing a Columbia University graduate student, prosecutors said.
Assistant District Attorney Ann Prunty disclosed the DNA match in papers
filed Thursday at Robert Williams' arraignment on a 71-count indictment
related to the attack on the 23-year-old journalism student.
Williams, 30, pleaded not guilty to charges that include kidnapping, arson,
burglary and predatory sexual assault. He faces life in prison if convicted.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prunty said the victim identified Williams on April 18 from a photograph as
the man who had assaulted, cut, raped and tortured her for 19 hours before
trying to burn her alive.
While being searched on April 20 in a room in the Manhattan district
attorney's office, Williams spat into a waste basket numerous times, the
prosecutor said.
"I observed defendant request to spit and observed one of the detectives, in
response to defendant's request, hold a waste basket near the defendant's
mouth so the defendant could spit his saliva into it," Prunty said in court
papers.
After the exam, Prunty said, pieces of saliva-splattered paper from the
waste basket were examined by the medical examiner's Forensic Biology
Department.
An analyst in the department told Prunty that "the male DNA profile obtained
from the T-shirt matches the male DNA profile obtained from the saliva
sample recovered from the waste basket," the court papers said.
The prosecutor quoted a technician as saying the waste basket saliva
provided a less than ideal DNA sample, so she asked for a sample directly
from Williams.
Williams' lawyer, Uzamah Saghir, told Acting Justice Laura Ward the defense
opposed the request for a DNA sample.
The judge reserved decision on the request and scheduled Williams' next
court date for June 13.
Williams, who served eight years for attempted murder, is accused of
slipping into the student's building on April 13 and forcing his way into
her apartment. For hours, Williams raped the woman on her futon bed, tied
her up with computer cables and used a knife to slit her eyelids, police
said during the announcement of his arrest days later.
Police said he forced the student to swallow large doses of over-the-counter
pain medicine as a sedative, which damaged her liver, and inflicted burns by
dousing her with bleach and scalding water in an apparent attempt to destroy
DNA evidence.
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:92dv53hhfl84gjd5t...@4ax.com...
the14thdisciple
> Can minorities be racist too?
it Depends on if they hafe passed thear driving tests, Chalkman Moo,
becasue everbody knows hugh can get arrested for racism if you hafe
NOT got a licence!
http://www.littleboxes.nl/GangbangParty.htm
love Forom yoar old freand 14
Occidental
> Occidental <Occiden...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> "Chairman Mao says:" <Mao-ze-D...@prc.com> wrote:
> >> >Everyone is a racist except people like you, right?
>
> >Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
> >> I am a racist too.
>
> >You mean you are racist merely because you spontaneously make racial
> >distinctions based on appearance? Or because, having made such
> >distinctions, you find yourself judging members of some groups to be
> >inferior despite wishing to judge them as equals?
>
> Yes (to both).
>
> >> But I am not proud of it, and I work to change
> >> things.
>
> >"things"? Has it occurred to you that the abuse you use against anyone
> >who acknowledges the existence of race or of racial distinctions is
> >simply an unconscious strategem to deal with self-disgust?
>
> It is not unconscious at all.
I was merely wondering whether the thought had ever occurred...
If it were completely unconscious you would not be aware of it, and
would invent self-justifying rationalizations to deal with it, as you
apparently do.
> The only way to eliminate racism in our
> society is to make racism a social taboo.
But according to your understanding of the word racism, it is not just
"subhuman .. slime" that make racial distinctions and thus are
racists, but effectively everyone in the US.
(You are "racist" by your own admission, but presumably not "subhuman
racist slime", because you acknowledge and fight against your racism -
correct?)
> My kids are far less likely
> to be racist than I am; they grew up in an integrated society
The US is not racially integrated. Some *parts* of it are, but it is
definitely not "an integrated society".
> with no
> one consciously teaching them that racial differences were real.
Dividing humanity into groups by appearance is natural, and does not
have to be taught, consciously or otherwise.
> There is hope, if the virulent racists would crawl in their holes and
> rot away in their hatred.
You see, when you say crazy things like this one wonders whether you
are driven by something other than the desire for social reform.
>
> lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
>> The only way to eliminate racism in our
>> society is to make racism a social taboo.
>
>But according to your understanding of the word racism, it is not just
>"subhuman .. slime" that make racial distinctions and thus are
>racists, but effectively everyone in the US.
A lot of people use cuss words, including myself. But I know that I
shouldn't, that it is inappropriate for polite society. So I fight to
urge. Those who are like me know that the world is a better place
when some words do not get used.
The difference between someone like me and a subhuman racist slime is
that I am not proud of my racism. I don't seek to promote skin color
as a basis for assessing anything other than perhaps a person's
likelihood of getting a sunburn. I try NOT to presume that someone
with a certain accent is by definition stupid, lazy, or an illegal
alien (and generally succeed when I stop to think, and I consider
thinking to be a good thing).
If people stop trying to make racial distinctions, our kids will grow
up NOT making racial distinctions.
>(You are "racist" by your own admission, but presumably not "subhuman
>racist slime", because you acknowledge and fight against your racism -
>correct?)
Yes. But it takes especial virulence and obnoxious crossposting
before I determine that someone has chosen to withdraw from humanity.
>> My kids are far less likely
>> to be racist than I am; they grew up in an integrated society
>
>The US is not racially integrated. Some *parts* of it are, but it is
>definitely not "an integrated society".
My kids grew up in one of the integrated parts. There are occasional
aspects of racism around them, but they grew up with blacks and
Hispanics and Jews and Arabs and you-name-it else around them as
peers, and they weren't taught that ANY of these were inferior because
of their culture or ancestry, or religion.
>> with no
>> one consciously teaching them that racial differences were real.
>
>Dividing humanity into groups by appearance is natural
So is copulating with anything that moves, and making violent war
against those who offend you. That doesn't make any of them right, or
civilized.
>> There is hope, if the virulent racists would crawl in their holes and
>> rot away in their hatred.
>
>You see, when you say crazy things like this one wonders whether you
>are driven by something other than the desire for social reform.
The only way to take the wind out of a Nazi's sails is to make it
clear to them that they are puny, insignificant spineless losers.
I am driven by a sense of humor to turn their hatred into my laughter.
Mimicking their over-the-top rhetoric is one way that I laugh at them.
Don't like it? Feel free not to read me. Unless you are one of them,
in which case, feel the force of my utter contempt.
I am not driven by the desire for social reform, BTW. I am driven by
the desire to make the education newsgroups a place where people come
mostly to talk about education issues. Ignoring the racists did not
make them go away. So I declared war; when the racists go away, I
don't chase after them. When they come back, I give 'em both barrels
in the face, rhetorically speaking.
lojbab
Chairman Mao says:
"Occidental" <Occid...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1180705648.9...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Chairman Mao says:
Diversity and multiculturalism are liberal-Marxist ideals.
How diverse is Ted Kennedy's hood?
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:0ha063lhj1t1t4g5j...@4ax.com...
Occidental
> >But according to your understanding of the word racism, it is not just
> >"subhuman .. slime" that make racial distinctions and thus are
> >racists, but effectively everyone in the US.
Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
> A lot of people use cuss words, including myself. But I know that I
> shouldn't, that it is inappropriate for polite society. So I fight to
> urge. Those who are like me know that the world is a better place
> when some words do not get used.
Those who are like you *believe" that the world is a better place,
etc. Value judgements are not knowledge.
In any case, I'm not quite sure what cuss words have to do with the
issue.
My point above is that there are actually 3 classes of individuals to
consider:
1) those who make racial distinctions and believe in a racial
hierarchy of merit ("subhuman racist slime", in your terminology)
2) those who seek to overcome their propensity to make racial
distinctions ("racists", eg you)
3) those who make racial distinctions but do not believe in racial
hierarchies, and who are comfortable with their beliefs and do not
think they need to be educated out of them (almost everyone in the
US).
Are 3) "racists"?
Knowledge
Do you detest the TRUTH DH Mao? I mean life is not like ESPN where
everyone has their own opinion and they are all equally good.
Their are things in life that are TRUE and their are other tings that
are FALSE. All people are right about something's and wrong about
others,
When I say that after decades of research into the behavior of White
Savages, I can factually, and logically conclude that White supremacy
is the cause of almost every problem in the black community.
"If you don't understand White supremacy and how it affects every
aspect of your spook life...then everything else you think you
understand will only confuse you."
Dr. Neely Fuller
P.S.
DH stands for "testa di cazzo" :-)
Knowledge
>The nigger earns its name every day. They're invincibly ignorant.
>
>
>>"Until black culture as a whole is effectively disentangled from the
>>python-grip of hip-hop, and by extension the street, we are not going
>>to see any real progress."
>>
>> -- Thomas Chatterton Williams
>>
>>
>>He's correct. Many, if not most black youths in the U.S. act, or feel
>>like, they're "too cool for school." And here school is a symbol for
>>all institutions and endeavors that are the pathways and goals of
>>thinking caucasians, orientals, and latinos in America.
>>
>>But the "too cool" attitude is exactly what's keeping American blacks
>>from helping themselves to any aspects of the "American Dream."
com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/27/AR2007052700926.html?sub=AR
So where did "White People" learn to be such super criminals?
I'm speaking of Whites who kill and destroy by the millions and yet
are still admired.
Like your Enron executives, your World com AT&T execs, your Wall
street investment bankers, Michael Millikan, Ivan Boesky, your serial
killers, your pedophiles, and last but the greatest one of all, George
W. Shrub.
Seeing how violent and savage MOST White people are, they really don't
have any moral authority to be judging African Americans whom they
have kept under the soles of their shoes for over 200 years.
Most White people are completely insane on the issue of Skin color,
and on who did what in the Bible. They have filled their wonderful
minds with terabytes of the most stinky, deranged misinformation
anywhere in the universe.
Then because through violent behavior, they have been able to take
control of the Americas, and rule it after the manner of Satan
himself..
And da beat goes on.
Chairman Mao says:
"Knowledge" <knowl...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:lom06317v3tm69q67...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:07:16 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
> <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
>
>>"Chairman Mao says:" <Mao-z...@prc.com> wrote:
>>>I will say at least you're one of the few honest liberals out there.
>>
>>I'm not a liberal, except maybe to those who think that Attila the Hun
>>was a liberal. I am fiscally conservative, and socially tending
>>towards conservative but tolerant of others who aren't. I detest
>>extremists of both the left and the right and consider ideology a
>>plague.
>>
>>lojbab
>
>
> Do you detest the TRUTH DH Mao? I mean life is not like ESPN where
> everyone has their own opinion and they are all equally good.
>
> Their are things in life that are TRUE and their are other tings that
> are FALSE. All people are right about something's and wrong about
> others,
>
> When I say that after decades of research into the behavior of White
> Savages, I can factually, and logically conclude that White supremacy
> is the cause of almost every problem in the black community.
Look stupid, I'll make it simple as long as you niggers can blame someone
else but YOURSELVES the problem never will get fixed.
You will keep voting for the plantation party vote and waiting for a liberal
to fix the problem. They get 12% of the vote every election, stay in power,
problems continue, and you can blame Whitey. The trend continues.
What part of the truth don't you understand?
Iz gots dat bitch/ho lateeesha preganant dat aints mah sponnibility Iz going
to blame some otha cracka mofo fah dat.
I hope your not teaching at some respectable university.. BOY.
>
> "If you don't understand White supremacy and how it affects every
> aspect of your spook life...then everything else you think you
> understand will only confuse you."
>
> Dr. Neely Fuller
Dr.?
In what African American studies. What a joke
Beat it next moron please.
Where is Dratstah at if this isn't a good example of AA I don't know what
is.
Chairman Mao says:
> On Mon, 28 May 2007 21:01:35 GMT, \/\/O...@true.nog wrote:
>
>>The nigger earns its name every day. They're invincibly ignorant.
>>
>>
>>>"Until black culture as a whole is effectively disentangled from the
>>>python-grip of hip-hop, and by extension the street, we are not going
>>>to see any real progress."
>>>
>>> -- Thomas Chatterton Williams
>>>
>>>
>>>He's correct. Many, if not most black youths in the U.S. act, or feel
>>>like, they're "too cool for school." And here school is a symbol for
>>>all institutions and endeavors that are the pathways and goals of
>>>thinking caucasians, orientals, and latinos in America.
>>>
>>>But the "too cool" attitude is exactly what's keeping American blacks
>>>from helping themselves to any aspects of the "American Dream."
> com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/27/AR2007052700926.html?sub=AR
>
> So where did "White People" learn to be such super criminals?
>
> I'm speaking of Whites who kill and destroy by the millions and yet
> are still admired.
Who?
You just mentioned some Jew$ below here.
>
> Like your Enron executives, your World com AT&T execs, your Wall
> street investment bankers, Michael Millikan, Ivan Boesky, your serial
> killers, your pedophiles, and last but the greatest one of all, George
> W. Shrub.
>
> Seeing how violent and savage MOST White people are, they really don't
> have any moral authority to be judging African Americans whom they
> have kept under the soles of their shoes for over 200 years.
Sob story, I'm crying. It BEEZ RACISM Iz be kept down.
>
> Most White people are completely insane on the issue of Skin color,
Why the US government says skin color matters for handouts.
> and on who did what in the Bible.
Pray to Allah then go blow yourself up.
They have filled their wonderful
> minds with terabytes of the most stinky, deranged misinformation
> anywhere in the universe.
You should kiss the ass of every White person that you don't live in Africa
right now.
>
> Then because through violent behavior, they have been able to take
> control of the Americas, and rule it after the manner of Satan
> himself..
Praise Da lord, Can yo spah a blacks manz a dollah?
>
> And da beat goes on.
Nigga beat of blaming everyone else for your failed culture.
Bob LeChevalier
The French have had student riots for 200+ years (French Revolution,
Les Miserables, 1848, etc.), and diversity hasn't had a lot to do with
them. Idealogues attempting to put their extremist ideas into action
is a better explanation.
>Diversity and multiculturalism are liberal-Marxist ideals.
Whoopie. The Roman Empire was also diverse and multicultural, and it
survived several centuries (and of course preceded Marx by a goodly
amount of time).
They also are pragmatic responses to the fact that we have multiple
cultures in this country, and a Constitution that REQUIRES equal
treatment, and which doesn't mention skin color or religion or
ancestry as a basis for any sort of favoritism.
>How diverse is Ted Kennedy's hood?
I have no idea, and why would it matter?
I do know that he works in Washington DC, which is quite diverse. But
that doesn't matter either.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
>> Occidental <Occiden...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >But according to your understanding of the word racism, it is not just
>> >"subhuman .. slime" that make racial distinctions and thus are
>> >racists, but effectively everyone in the US.
>
>Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
>> A lot of people use cuss words, including myself. But I know that I
>> shouldn't, that it is inappropriate for polite society. So I fight to
>> urge. Those who are like me know that the world is a better place
>> when some words do not get used.
>
>Those who are like you *believe" that the world is a better place,
>etc. Value judgements are not knowledge.
"Knowledge" can stem from lots of sources, including belief (read
about epistemology). I didn't claim it was a scientific fact.
>In any case, I'm not quite sure what cuss words have to do with the
>issue.
Just another form of uncivilized behavior, like racism.
>My point above is that there are actually 3 classes of individuals to
>consider:
>1) those who make racial distinctions and believe in a racial
>hierarchy of merit ("subhuman racist slime", in your terminology)
>2) those who seek to overcome their propensity to make racial
>distinctions ("racists", eg you)
>3) those who make racial distinctions but do not believe in racial
>hierarchies, and who are comfortable with their beliefs and do not
>think they need to be educated out of them (almost everyone in the
>US).
To make a distinction is to make a hierarchy. Otherwise, why make a
distinction? We don't make such a distinction between Japanese and
mainland Asians, or between Indo-European "whites" and Finno-Ugric
"whites", both plausible distinctions that might be made on the basis
of language, culture, and ancestry.
In the meantime, most American blacks have more western European
ancestry than most Finns, and a surprising number of Americans who are
not purely products of the immigration waves that started in the 1840s
have at least one black American ancestor. And then there are the
Europeans who weren't nearly as racist as many Americans, and who had
no problem intermingling with those of dark skin (see Othello, the
Moor, the medieval Moorish rule of Spain and Portugal, and such
genetic tidbits as
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn11018&feedId=genetics_rss20
We are all mongrels.
>Are 3) "racists"?
Yes. They just tend not to be virulent and obnoxious about it. I
also question that they are "almost everyone". I suspect that group 2
is in fact in the majority, though how hard people are willing to try
may be quite variable.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
It is, when someone like you is posting it, to the particular set of
newsgroups you chose, and for the reasons you provided.
If you merely disliked the music on aesthetic grounds, then you might
have posted to a newsgroup about music, and confined your comments to
things relevant to musical concepts.
If you dislike the culture, then since it is none of your business
what someone else's cultural choices are unless they personally affect
you, you are a racist.
If you post such nonsense to the education newsgroup, then you are
labeled a subhuman racist slime, because that is what I think of YOUR
cultural choices which you have caused to personally affect me by
polluting a newsgroup where your ranting is off-topic.
Judge others and you shall be judged.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
>On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:07:16 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
><loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
>
>>"Chairman Mao says:" <Mao-z...@prc.com> wrote:
>>>I will say at least you're one of the few honest liberals out there.
>>
>>I'm not a liberal, except maybe to those who think that Attila the Hun
>>was a liberal. I am fiscally conservative, and socially tending
>>towards conservative but tolerant of others who aren't. I detest
>>extremists of both the left and the right and consider ideology a
>>plague.
>>
>>lojbab
>
>
>Do you detest the TRUTH
"TRUTH" is for religious fanatics and ideologues. I detest both.
>DH Mao? I mean life is not like ESPN where
>everyone has their own opinion and they are all equally good.
Actually, everyone does have their own opinion, and they are entitled
to whatever opinion they want.
They are even in this country entitled to free expression of their
opinions, but then I am free to express my opinion of their opinion.
"Good" is a value judgement. Obviously, I don't consider racist
opinions to be equally good with my own. I don't consider them
appropriate to a civilized human being.
>Their are things in life that are TRUE and their are other tings that
>are FALSE.
Most of which are determined by the assumptions one starts with.
Is it TRUTH that the sun rises in the East every morning? Depends on
how you define "East". Only on the Equinoxes does the sun rise
exactly in the East.
>All people are right about something's and wrong about others,
And racists are wrong about most things.
>When I say that after decades of research into the behavior of White
>Savages, I can factually, and logically conclude that White supremacy
>is the cause of almost every problem in the black community.
That would be just as fallacious as the arguments of the white
supremacists.
lojbab
dratster
This idiot claims to have a PhD but make outrageous and generalized
statements so many different subjects.
He is an ignorant racist obsessed with the his perception that all
Blacks have gotten where we are because we all unfairly receive
Affirmative Action.
You are correct in believing that mocking them as insignificant losers
is the way to deal with me.
I am constantly amazed how some have years on a daily quest to post
their racist dribble...
dratster
Chairman Mao says:
again?
Don't worry just make sure those future employers have EEOC Employer in big
bold letters in their advertisements.
What do you think about the 12 million illegals?
I bet the Bloods are worried about the Crips quadrupling their membership
levels.
"dratster" <drichards...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1180735760....@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 1, 4:10 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
>> "Chairman Mao says:" <Mao-ze-D...@prc.com> wrote:
>>
>> >You can look at your seeds of diversity in those French riots
>>
>> The French have had student riots for 200+ years (French Revolution,
>> Les Miserables, 1848, etc.), and diversity hasn't had a lot to do with
>> them. Idealogues attempting to put their extremist ideas into action
>> is a better explanation.
>>
>> >Diversity and multiculturalism are liberal-Marxist ideals.
>>
>> Whoopie. The Roman Empire was also diverse and multicultural, and it
>> survived several centuries (and of course preceded Marx by a goodly
>> amount of time).
Last time I looked, multiculturalism was a factor in the collapse of the
empire.
>>
>> They also are pragmatic responses to the fact that we have multiple
>> cultures in this country, and a Constitution that REQUIRES equal
>> treatment, and which doesn't mention skin color or religion or
>> ancestry as a basis for any sort of favoritism.
Then you should support the end to those "special race/cultural based
programs."
>>
>> >How diverse is Ted Kennedy's hood?
>>
>> I have no idea, and why would it matter?
It matters, diversity doesn't apply to the status quo, why is this?
>>
>> I do know that he works in Washington DC, which is quite diverse. But
>> that doesn't matter either.
Work and living are two different things
>>
>> lojbab
>
> This idiot claims to have a PhD but make outrageous and generalized
> statements so many different subjects.
>
> He is an ignorant racist obsessed with the his perception that all
> Blacks have gotten where we are because we all unfairly receive
> Affirmative Action.
Well just you? Did you?
>
> You are correct in believing that mocking them as insignificant losers
> is the way to deal with me.
>
> I am constantly amazed how some have years on a daily quest to post
> their racist dribble...
And... you are like a magnet and love to read my post, Right?
>
> dratster
Alias hood name "Dratzmanz"
I'll let you two "lesser-educated" read this. Glad to help out the brothas
of the digital divide once again.
A Communism for the 21st Century
By Fjordman
Brussels Journal | May 17, 2007
I've received some criticism for trying to figure out the ideological
and historical roots of Multiculturalism. Critics claim that it's all
about hate, about a desire to break down the Established Order at any
cost. Many of the proponents don't believe in the doctrine of
Multiculturalism themselves, so we shouldn't waste any time analyzing
the logic behind it, because there is none. A desire to break down
Western society is certainly there, but I do believe there are some
ideas about the desired end result articulated as well.
On one hand, we're supposed to "celebrate" our differences at the same
time as it is racist and taboo to recognize that any differences between
groups of people exist at all. This is hardly logically coherent, which
is why Multiculturalism can only be enforced by totalitarian means.
Perhaps it boils down to the fact there are no major differences, just
minor quirks, all cute, which should be celebrated at the same time as
we gradually eradicate them.
We are told to treat cultural and historical identities as fashion
accessories, shirts we can wear and change at will. The Multicultural
society is "colorful," an adjective normally attached to furniture or
curtains. Cultures are window decorations of little or no consequence,
and one might as well have one as the other. In fact, it is good to
change it every now and then. Don't you get tired of that old sofa
sometimes? What about exchanging it for the new sharia model? Sure, it's
slightly less comfortable than the old one, but it's very much in vogue
these days and sets you apart from the neighbors, at least until they
get one, too. Do you want a sample of the latest Calvin Klein perfume to
go with that sharia?
We should remember that this view of culture as largely unimportant is
essentially a Marxist view of the world, which has now even been adopted
by segments of the political Right, united with Leftists in the belief
that man is homo economicus, the economic man, the sum of his functions
as worker and consumer, nothing more. Marxism doesn't say that cultures
or ideas are of absolutely no consequence, but that they are of minor or
secondary importance next to structural and economic conditions.
I have heard individuals state point blank that even if Muslims become
the majority in our countries in the future, this doesn't matter because
all people are equal and all cultures are just a mix of everything else,
anyway. And since religions are just fairy-tales, replacing one
fairy-tale, Christianity, with another fairy-tale, Islam, won't make a
big difference. All religions basically say that the same things in
different ways. However, not one of them would ever dream of saying that
all political ideologies "basically mean the same thing." They simply
don't view religious or cultural ideas as significant, and thus won't
spend time on studying the largely unimportant details of each specific
creed. This is Marxist materialism.
The unstated premise behind this is that the age of distinct cultures is
over. All peoples around the world will gradually blend into one
another. Ethnic, religious and racial tensions will disappear, because
mankind will be one and equal. It's cultural and genetic Communism.
Nation states who create their own laws and uphold their own borders
constitute "discrimination" and an obstacle to this new Utopia, and will
gradually have to be dismantled, starting with Western nations of
course, replaced by a world where everybody has the right to move
wherever they want to and where international legislation and human
rights resolutions define the law, upheld by an elite of - supposedly
well-meaning - transnational bureaucrats managing our lives.
What the proponents of this ideology don't say is that even if it were
possible to melt all human beings into one people, which is in my view
neither possible nor desirable, this project would take generations or
centuries, and in the intervening time there would be numerous wars and
enormous suffering caused by the fact that not everybody would quietly
allow themselves to be eradicated.
All aspects of your person, from language via culture to skin color and
religion, are treated as imaginary social constructs. We are told that
"all cultures are hybrids and borrow from each other," that we were "all
immigrants" at one point in time and hence nobody has a right to claim
any specific piece of land as "theirs."
Since "we" are socially constructed, we can presumably also be socially
deconstructed. The Marxist "counter-culture"of the 1960s and 70s has
been remarkably effective at attacking the pillars of Western
civilization. It is, frankly, scary to notice how much damage just one
single generation can inflict upon a society. Maybe it's true that no
chain is stronger than its weakest link. Our education system is now
used to dismantle our culture, not to uphold it, and has moved from the
Age of Reason to the Age of Deconstruction. Socialism has destroyed the
very fabric of society. Our countries have become so damaged that people
feel there is nothing left fighting for, which no doubt was the
intention. Our children leave school as disoriented wrecks and
ideological cripples with no sense of identity, and are met with a roar
of outrage if they demonstrate the slightest inkling of a spine.
Codie Stott, a white English teenage schoolgirl, was arrested on
suspicion of committing a section five racial public order offense after
refusing to sit with a group of South Asian students because some of
them did not speak English. She was taken to Swinton police station, had
her fingerprints taken and was thrown into a cell before being released.
Robert Whelan of the Civitas think-tank said: "A lot of these arrests
don't result in prosecutions - the aim is to frighten us into
self-censorship until we watch everything we say."
Bryan Cork of Carlisle, Cumbria in the Lake District, was sentenced to
six months in jail for standing outside a mosque shouting, "Proud to be
British," and "Go back to where you came from." This happened while
Muslims were instituting sharia laws in British cities and got state
sponsorship for having several wives.
Antifascistisk Aktion in Sweden, a group that supposedly fights against
"racists," openly brag about numerous physical attacks against persons
with their full name and address published on their website. According
to AFA, this is done in order to fight against global capitalism and for
a classless society. They subscribe to an ideology that killed one
hundred million people during a few generations, and they are the good
guys. Those who object to being turned into a minority in their own
country through mass immigration are the bad guys.
The extreme Left didn't succeed in staging a violent revolution in the
West, so they decided to go for a permanent, structural revolution
instead. They now hope that immigrants can provide raw material for a
violent rebellion, especially since many of them are Muslims who have
displayed such a wonderful talent for violence and destruction. The
Western Left are importing a new proletariat, since the previous one
disappointed them.
A poll carried out on behalf of the Organization for Information on
Communism found that 90 percent of Swedes between the ages of 15 and 20
had never heard of the Gulag, although 95 percent knew of Auschwitz.
"Unfortunately we were not at all surprised by the findings," Ander
Hjemdahl, the founder of UOK, told website The Local. In the nationwide
poll, 43 percent believed that Communist regimes had claimed less than
one million lives. The actual figure is estimated at 100 million. 40
percent believed that Communism had contributed to increased prosperity
in the world. Mr. Hjemdahl states several reasons for this massive
ignorance, among them that "a large majority of Swedish journalists are
left-wingers, many of them quite far left."
I have personally read statements by leading media figures not just in
Sweden, but all over Western Europe, who openly brag about censoring
coverage of issues related to mass immigration and the Multicultural
society.
The Muslim writer Abdelwahab Meddeb believes that as a result of French
influence, the whole of the Mediterranean region "is suited to becoming
a laboratory for European thought." First of all, I don't think Islam
can be reformed, and even if it could, France currently lacks the
cultural confidence to lead such an effort. Behind their false pride,
they are a nation deeply unsure about themselves, and still carry
psychological wounds from their great Revolution of 1789. And second: A
bridge can be crossed two ways. Will France be a bridge for European
thought into the Islamic world or for Islamic thought into Europe? Right
now, the latter seems more likely. And finally: I greatly resent seeing
tens of millions of human beings described as a "laboratory."
Unfortunately, Mr. Meddeb is not alone in entertaining such ideas.
Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt has said: "Belgium is the
laboratory of European unification." What kind of confidence does it
inspire in citizens that their supposed leader talks about their country
as a laboratory? Are their children guinea pigs? Apparently, yes.
In 1960, 7.3% of the population of Belgian capital Brussels was foreign.
Today the figure is 56.5%. Jan Hertogen, a Marxist sociologist, can
hardly hide his excitement over this great experiment in social
engineering, and believes this population replacement "is an impressive
and unique development from a European, or even a world perspective."
Yes, it is probably the first time in human history that a nation
demographically has handed over its capital city to outsiders without
firing a single shot, but judging from trends in the rest of Europe, it
won't be the last. The European Union and the local, Multicultural
elites will see to that.
The Dutch writer Margriet de Moor provides another example of why
Multiculturalism is a massive experiment in social engineering, every
bit as radical and dangerous as Communism. Ms. de Moor lives in some
kind of alternate reality where "Europe's affluence and free speech"
will create an Islamic Reformation. But Muslim immigration constitutes a
massive drain on the former, and is slowly, but surely destroying the
latter:
"When I'm feeling optimistic I sometimes see the Netherlands, a small
laconic country not inclined towards the large-scale or the theatrical,
as a kind of laboratory on the edge of Europe. Now and then the mixture
of dangerous, easily inflammable substances results in a little
explosion, but basically the process of ordinary chemical reactions just
continues."
What kind of person refers to her own country as a laboratory? Ms. de
Moor sounds like a scientist, dispassionately studying an interesting
specimen in her microscope. I'm sure Theo van Gogh would be pleased to
hear that he was basically a lab rat when he ended up with a knife in
his chest for having "insulted" Islam, along with that of the "racist"
Pim Fortuyn the first political murder in Holland for centuries. What
was once one of the most tolerant nations in the world is now being
ruined by Muslim immigration. But hey, you have to break a few eggs to
make an omelet, right? These murders were an unfortunate business, no
doubt, but one mustn't call off the entire Multicultural experiment
because of a few minor setbacks.
We all told that Arabs triggered the Renaissance in Europe. Michelangelo
was commissioned by the Pope to paint the ceiling of The Sistine Chapel
within the Vatican. He painted God creating Adam. Did any of the Caliphs
or Sultans ever commission an artist to pant the image of Allah in
Mecca? Why not, if all cultures are one and the same? Likewise, the
political works of the ancient Greeks were never translated to Arabic,
as they presented systems such as democracy where men ruled themselves
according to their own laws. This was considered blasphemous to Muslims.
The same texts were later studied with great interest in the West.
Far from being irrelevant, culture is a massively important factor in
shaping a society. Islam's hostility to free speech is why Muslims never
had any Scientific or Industrial Revolution, for instance. If you
believe in evolution, isn't it then also likely that some cultures are
more evolved than others? That kind of blows Multiculturalism away,
doesn't it?
British PM Tony Blair is stepping down after having ruined his country
more in one decade than arguably any other leader has done before him.
He ran on the platform of New Labour, but as it turned out, his party
was still wed to the same old ideas of international Socialism.
According to the writer Melanie Phillips, "He is driven by a
universalist world view which minimises the profound nature of the
conflicts that divide people. He thinks that such divisions belong
essentially to a primitive past. (...) Hence his closely-related
obsession with 'universal' human rights law. Hence also his belief that
national borders no longer matter, that mass immigration is a good thing
and that Britain's unique identity must give way to multiculturalism.
This is the way, he thinks, to eradicate conflict, prejudice and war,
and create a global utopia. What a profound misjudgment. It is, instead,
the way to destroy democracy and the independent nations that create and
sustain it."
Marie Simonsen, the political editor of the Norwegian left-wing
newspaper Dagbladet, wrote in March 2007 that it should be considered a
universal human right for all people everywhere to migrate wherever they
want to. This statement came just after a UN report had predicted a
global population growth of several billion people to 2050.
It doesn't take much skill to calculate that unlimited migration will
spell certain death for a tiny Scandinavian nation - not in a matter of
generations, but theoretically even within a few weeks. Ms. Simonsen is
thus endorsing the eradication of her own people, and she does so almost
as an afterthought. Her comments received no opposition from anyone in
the media establishment, which could indicate that most of them share
her views, or at least have resigned themselves to the fact that our
death as a people is already inevitable.
Karl Marx has defined the essence of Socialism as abolishing private
property. Let's assume for a moment that a country can be treated as the
"property" of its citizens. Its inhabitants are responsible for creating
its infrastructure. They have built its roads and communications, its
schools, universities and medical facilities. They have created its
political institutions and instilled in its people the mental capacities
needed for upholding them. Is it then wrong for the citizens of this
country to want to enjoy the benefits of what they have themselves created?
According to Marxist logic, yes.
Imagine you have two such houses next to each other. In House A, the
inhabitants have over a period of generations created a tidy and
functioning household. They have limited their number of children
because they wanted to give all of them a proper education. In House B,
the inhabitants live in a dysfunctional household with too many children
who have received little higher education. One day they decide to move
to their neighbors'. Many of the inhabitants of House A are protesting,
but some of them think this might be a good idea. There is room for more
people in House A, they say. In addition to this, Amnesty International,
the United Nations and others claim that it is "racist" and "against
international law" for the inhabitants of House A to expel the
intruders. Pretty soon, House A has been turned into an overpopulated
and dysfunctional household just like House B.
This is what is happening to the West today. Europe itself could become
a failed continent by importing the problems of Africa and the Islamic
world. The notion that everybody should be free to move anywhere they
want to, and that preventing them from moving into your country is
"racism, xenophobia and bigotry," is the Communism of the 21st century.
And it will probably lead to immense human suffering.
One of the really big mistakes we made after the Cold War ended was to
declare that Socialism was now dead, and thus no longer anything to
worry about. Here we are, nearly a generation later, discovering that
Marxist thinking has penetrated every single stratum of our society,
from the universities to the media. While the "hard" Marxism of the
Soviet Union may have collapsed, at least for now, the "soft" Marxism of
the Western Left has actually grown stronger, in part because we
mistakenly deemed it to be less threatening.
Ideas about Multiculturalism and de-facto open borders have achieved a
virtual hegemony in public discourse. By hiding behind labels such as
"anti-racism" and "tolerance," Leftists have achieved a degree of
censorship they could never have achieved had they openly stated that
their intention was to radically transform Western civilization and
destroy its foundations.
According to the French philosopher Alain Finkielkraut, "the lofty idea
of 'the war on racism' is gradually turning into a hideously false
ideology. And this anti-racism will be for the 21st century what
Communism was for the 20th century: A source of violence."
Alexander Boot, a Russian by birth, left for the West in the 1970s, only
to discover that the West he was seeking was no longer there. This led
him to write the book How the West Was Lost. Boot believes that
democracy, or in the words of Abraham Lincoln, the government of the
people, by the people and for the people, has been replaced by
glossocracy, the government of the word, by the word and for the word.
In a culture where language is power and words are used as weapons,
those who control the most fearsome of these weapons control society. In
the West, where equality in all walks of life is the highest virtue and
"discrimination" is a mortal sin, the "racist" is the worst of
creatures. Those who control the definition of "racist," the nuclear
bomb of glossocracy, have a powerful weapon they can utilize to
intimidate opponents. The mere utterance of the word can destroy careers
and ruin lives, with no trial and no possibility of appeal.
Currently, the power of definition largely rests in the hands of a
cartel of anti-racist organizations dominated by the extreme Left, often
in cooperation with Muslims. By silencing all opposition to mass
immigration as "racism," they can stage a transformation of society
every bit as massive as that of Communism, yet virtually shut down
debate about it.
Boot totally rejects the claim that Marxism has been misunderstood:
"Any serious study will demonstrate that Marx based his theories on
industrial conditions that either were already obsolete at the time or
had never existed in the first place. That is no wonder, for Marx never
saw the inside of a factory, farm or manufactory. [...] Whatever else he
was, Marx was not a scientist. [.] Marx ideals are unachievable
precisely because they are so monstrous that even Bolsheviks never quite
managed to realize them fully, and not for any lack of trying. For
example, the [Communist] Manifesto (along with other writings by both
Marx and Engels) prescribes the nationalization of all private property
without exception. Even Stalin's Russia of the 1930s fell short of that
ideal. In fact, a good chunk of the Soviet economy was then in private
hands [...] Really, compared with Marx, Stalin begins to look like a
humanitarian. Marx also insisted that family should be done away with,
with women becoming communal property. Again, for all their efforts,
Lenin and Stalin never quite managed to achieve this ideal either. So
where the Bolsheviks and Nazis perverted Marxism, they generally did so
in the direction of softening it."
The former Soviet dissident Vladimir Bukovksy, who has warned that the
European Union is on its way to becoming another Soviet Union, thinks
that while the West won the Cold War in a military sense, we lost it in
the context of ideas: "Communism might have been dead, but the
communists remained in power in most of the former Warsaw bloc
countries, while their Western collaborators came to power all over the
world (in Europe in particular). This is nothing short of a miracle: the
defeat of the Nazis in 1945 quite logically brought a shift to the Left
in world politics, while a defeat of communism in 1991 brought again a
shift to the Left, this time quite illogically."
Bukovksy is right: We never had a thorough de-Marxification process
after the Cold War, similar to the de-Nazification after WW2, and we are
now paying the price for this. Many Marxist ideas have been allowed to
endure and mutate, such as the notion that culture is unimportant or
that it is OK to stage massive social experiments on hundreds of
millions of people. The Marxist historian Eric Hobsbawm has stated that
had the Soviet Union managed to create a functioning Socialist society,
tens of millions of deaths would have been a worthwhile price to pay.
But Marxist ideals of forced equality can only be enforced by a
government with totalitarian powers, and will thus inevitably lead to a
totalitarian society. There is no "enlightened Marxism," and the idea
that there is has ruined more lives than probably and other ideology in
modern history.
Marxism is an organized crime against humanity.
The Australian writer Keith Windschuttle warns that the consequence of
cultural relativism is that if there can be no absolute truths, there
can be no absolute falsehoods, either, which explains Western weakness
when confronted with Islamic Jihad. Our sense of right and wrong has
been deeply damaged by Marxist thinking. Windschuttle praises Greek
historian Thucydides' writings about The History of the Peloponnesian
War from the 5th century BC:
"Rather than being impelled by great impersonal forces, political
history reveals the world is made by men and, instead of being 'absolved
of blame', men are responsible for the consequences of their actions.
This was the very point that informed Thucydides' study of the
Peloponnesian War: the fate of Athens had been determined not by
prophets, oracles or the gods, but by human actions and social
organisation."
Ideas matter. Individuals matter. Cultures matter. Truth matters, and
truth exists. We used to know that. It's time we get to know it again,
and reject false ideas about the irrelevance of culture. We are not
racists for desiring to pass on our heritage to future generations, nor
are we evil for resisting to be treated as lab rats in social
experiments on a horrific scale. We must nip the ideology of
transnational Multiculturalism and unlimited mass migration in the bud
by exposing it for what it is: A Communism for the 21st century.
Click Here to support Frontpagemag.com.
>
Chairman Mao says:
Since you did mention education in one of your post, you can become more
educated.
Kathleen Parker: The black and white of the 'Ho' culture
By KATHLEEN PARKER
Wednesday, May. 16, 2007
Kathleen Parker logo
IN A NEW TWIST in American race relations, a federal court has ruled
that a white teacher in a predominantly African-American school was
subjected to a racially hostile workplace.
The case concerned Elizabeth Kandrac, who was routinely verbally abused
by black students at Brentwood Middle School in North Charleston, S.C.
Their slurs make shock jock Don Imus look like a church deacon.
Nevertheless, despite frequent complaints, school officials did nothing
to intervene on Kandrac's behalf, arguing that the racially charged
profanity was simply part of the students' culture. If Kandrac couldn't
handle cursing, school officials told her, she was in the wrong school.
Kandrac finally filed a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity
Commission (EEOC) and subsequently brought a lawsuit against the
Charleston County School District, the school's principal and an
associate superintendent. Last fall, jurors found that the school was a
racially hostile environment to teach in and that the school district
retaliated against Kandrac for complaining about it.
The defendants sought a new trial, but U.S. District Judge David C.
Norton recently affirmed the verdict. However, he did not support the
jury's findings of $307,500 in damages for lost income and emotional
distress.
Although Kandrac clearly suffered -- she was suspended from her job
shortly after a story about her EEOC complaint appeared in the local
newspaper, and her contract was not renewed -- her case didn't meet
evidentiary requirements for damages. The judge said a new trial would
have to determine damages, but the school district and Kandrac settled
for $200,000.
While the dollars-and-cents issue may have been of paramount importance
to school and district officials -- and would have lent heft to the
verdict -- the more compelling issue for students, parents and society
is the idea that a particular group of people can be allowed to behave
in a grossly uncivil and threatening way by virtue of their racial
"culture." The key legal question was whether a school could be held
responsible for students' behavior. In this case, the black children of
Brentwood had been given a pass for their behavior because vulgar
language was considered normal for their culture.
Defense attorney Alice Paylor told jurors that the kids heard this same
language at home and there was "no magic pill" to make them behave.
Paylor is probably right about that, though a magic paddle might have
worked wonders.
Back in the day, if a student talked the way these did, he or she would
have received a well-deserved thwack, been suspended and sent home to
face the wrath of his or her father. That process likely would have put
a swift end to the tribal tyranny now often tolerated in the service of
self-esteem.
Let's be clear: What these children called this teacher is beyond
reprehensible and could be only be construed as hostile and threatening.
Here's a sample: white b----, white m----- f-----, white c---, white
a------, white ho.
Other white teachers and students corroborated Kandrac's account,
including a male war veteran who testified he would rather return to
Vietnam than to Brentwood.
Kandrac's attorney, Larry Kobrovsky, argued that the repeated use of
"white" made these slurs racist in nature. But school officials insisted
that because black students were equally abusive to other blacks, the
language wasn't inherently racist.
Here's what we know without question: If majority white students had
used similar language toward black students and teachers, the case would
have been plastered on the front page of The New York Times until heads
rolled.
A black Kandrac would have a million-dollar book deal, a movie contract
and hundreds of interviews to juggle. Her oppressors and those who
passively facilitated her abuse would have been pilloried by the media
-- their faces all over the evening news -- while the reverends Al and
Jesse organized protests.
But a white Kandrac -- who faced a daily barrage of insults, who had
books and desks thrown at her and her bicycle tires punctured -- was
treated like an incompetent wimp. She was just a lousy teacher out for
money, the defense attorney said.
Though Kandrac lost her job, the real losers are the children deprived
of an education by the actions of a tyrannical few. And the worst
racists are those teachers and administrators who denied these empowered
brats the expectation of civilized behavior.
May the rest of America now be emboldened to act decisively in the
interest of students who want to learn.
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:or0163tb3di9ubnda...@4ax.com...
Chairman Mao says:
To liberals anyone who doesn't support the diversity dweebs, they're a
racist. Hence, non-political correct speech is RACIST. However, acts of
real violence are not racial inncidents they are random acts by oppressed
people who need more programs. (non-racist ) (Vote for me)
Racially Charged Murder Trials Getting Scant National Press
Racially Charged Murder Trials Getting Scant National Press
By Randy Hall
CNSNews.com Staff Writer/Editor
May 18, 2007
(CNSNews.com) - A judge in Knox County, Tenn., Thursday scheduled separate
trials during the summer of 2008 for four defendants charged with the
carjacking, rape and murder of a young couple even as the case of
black-on-white crime remained mostly untouched by the national media.
Letalvis Cobbins, 24, and 25-year-old Lemaricus Davidson were slated to go
on trial May 12 and June 16, 2008, regarding 46 charges including first
degree murder, kidnapping and rape regarding the deaths of 21-year-old
Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom, 23, in early January.
Judge Richard Baumgartner also set July 14, 2008, as the trial date for
18-year-old Vanessa Coleman, who faces 40 state charges connected to the
crimes, and August 11, 2008, as the date George Thomas, 24, will be tried on
46 charges in the case.
While more than a dozen family members and friends of the victims sat in the
courtroom Thursday, Baumgartner said he expected each trial to last about
two weeks.
Also on Thursday, Knox County District Attorney General Randy Nichols stated
that he has not yet decided whether to seek the death penalty if the
defendants are convicted.
Reports on the latest developments in the case quickly filtered out through
the local news media, including television station WATE, Channel 6 in
Knoxville.
Jamie Foster, the station's news director, told Cybercast News Service on
Thursday: "Most of the people in the area were obviously very upset by this
crime."
As Cybercast News Service previously reported, Christian and Newsom were out
on a dinner date in Knoxville on January 6 when they were carjacked,
kidnapped, tortured, raped and murdered.
According to published news reports, the two were tortured at length in each
other's presence, strangled and shot. Newsom's mutilated and burned remains
were found along a railroad track the following day. Two days later,
Christian's battered and burned body was found in a trash bin.
"Let's face it," Foster said. "It was a very brutal crime."
The suspects were quickly arrested and charged with numerous offenses
including carjacking, kidnapping, rape, premeditated murder, theft and
robbery.
"People want to see the suspects, if they are found guilty and responsible,
pay for their crimes," Foster stated, even though the state does not have a
"hate crime" law that would impose stiffer penalties for offenses committed
on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion or sexual orientation.
"This obviously is a big local story that we've been following from the
beginning," he added. Still, in the time since the arrests were made, "there
have been several other major stories going on in the local scene as well,
so you haven't heard as much about it lately."
While indicating that "our focus here is on local news," Foster said that
the story hasn't attracted much national attention.
"I can't really make policy for what the national news networks do," he
stated, though "a few have requested video from us."
But Foster said he believes that situation will change.
"In all honesty, I believe that once more of the details come out, once this
hits the courtroom, I think you probably will see more national coverage,"
he stated.
Cybercast News Service previously reported that Associated Press wire
stories on the killings were carried by Knoxville news outlets, CBS News and
Fox News, but other major media had yet to mention the matter. Conservative
columnist Mark Alexander called it "a case study in journalistic
malpractice."
A search of the Nexis database on Thursday found that since the May 8 story
on this website, no other major media outlets have reported on the case.
Telephone calls and emails seeking comment from ABC News, NBC News, CNN and
the New York Times were not returned by press time.
However, conservative talk show host Michael Savage said on his May 9 radio
program that the Knoxville situation "got me sick," and on Thursday, the
Christian Broadcasting Network website discussed the story under the title
"An Act of Domestic Terrorism You Haven't Heard About."
Robert Zelnick, a professor of journalism at Boston University, told
Cybercast News Service Thursday the Knoxville murders, "as gruesome as they
were, need a strong peg to reach a national audience."
"Racism would certainly be one. Celebrity involvement would be another. An
epidemic of criminal activity of this sort would be a third," he said.
"The coincidence of white victims and black perpetrators doesn't pass
muster, though the coincidence of white perpetrators and black victims might
because of its relative infrequency," Zelnick added.
Still, "cases like this do make you resist the nonsense peddled by certain
self-anointed black 'civil rights leaders' who suggest that the high
incidence of black male incarceration is a function of society's racism," he
said.
That claim is "nonsense," according to Zelnick. "It is a function of the
breakdown of spiritual, cultural, educational and family value systems in
the African-American community."
Who are the real racist?
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:dcv063tkb5n205a40...@4ax.com...
Bob LeChevalier
>>>
>>> Whoopie. The Roman Empire was also diverse and multicultural, and it
>>> survived several centuries (and of course preceded Marx by a goodly
>>> amount of time).
>
>Last time I looked, multiculturalism was a factor in the collapse of the
>empire.
Perhaps. But it was certainly a factor in it lasting so long in the
first place. Rome alone could not have fielded the soldiers to
conquer the empire.
>>> They also are pragmatic responses to the fact that we have multiple
>>> cultures in this country, and a Constitution that REQUIRES equal
>>> treatment, and which doesn't mention skin color or religion or
>>> ancestry as a basis for any sort of favoritism.
>
>Then you should support the end to those "special race/cultural based
>programs."
When you racists go away, I will. As long as you are around, they
need to stay to render your impotence permanent.
>>> >How diverse is Ted Kennedy's hood?
>>>
>>> I have no idea, and why would it matter?
>
>It matters,
Not because YOU say so.
>diversity doesn't apply to the status quo, why is this?
Diversity does apply to the status quo.
>>> I do know that he works in Washington DC, which is quite diverse. But
>>> that doesn't matter either.
>
>Work and living are two different things
When he working in Washington DC, he is living in the Washington DC
Metro area. And he serves the entire state of Massachusetts, which is
fairly diverse.
Now why should it matter?
lojbab
Chairman Mao says:
> "Chairman Mao says:" <Mao-z...@prc.com> wrote:
>>>> >Diversity and multiculturalism are liberal-Marxist ideals.
>>>>
>>>> Whoopie. The Roman Empire was also diverse and multicultural, and it
>>>> survived several centuries (and of course preceded Marx by a goodly
>>>> amount of time).
>>
>>Last time I looked, multiculturalism was a factor in the collapse of the
>>empire.
>
> Perhaps. But it was certainly a factor in it lasting so long in the
> first place. Rome alone could not have fielded the soldiers to
> conquer the empire.
Diversity let the no-loads right in the borders and it fell apart.
>
>>>> They also are pragmatic responses to the fact that we have multiple
>>>> cultures in this country, and a Constitution that REQUIRES equal
>>>> treatment, and which doesn't mention skin color or religion or
>>>> ancestry as a basis for any sort of favoritism.
>>
>>Then you should support the end to those "special race/cultural based
>>programs."
>
> When you racists go away, I will. As long as you are around, they
> need to stay to render your impotence permanent.
>
>>>> >How diverse is Ted Kennedy's hood?
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea, and why would it matter?
>>
>>It matters,
>
> Not because YOU say so.
>
>>diversity doesn't apply to the status quo, why is this?
>
> Diversity does apply to the status quo.
Examples? I'll be waiting to see your examples of diversity in those elite
areas.
We are not talking about the kitchen help or yard keepers for those mansions
either.
>
>>>> I do know that he works in Washington DC, which is quite diverse. But
>>>> that doesn't matter either.
Washington Dc is a shit hole, who are you fooling?
You make excuses just like a low level politician does.
>>
>>Work and living are two different things
>
> When he working in Washington DC, he is living in the Washington DC
> Metro area. And he serves the entire state of Massachusetts, which is
> fairly diverse.
He is a crook with idiots like you as his supporters.
>
> Now why should it matter?
It does matter, only an ostrich with his head in the ground can't see the
writing on the wall.
You play the fiddle (or skin flute) with your butt buddies while Rome (USA)
burns to the ground.
>
> lojbab
Liberalism is a major reason why the country is falling apart, you people
that promote diversity and multiculturalism are the backers of this nation
going to the toilet bowl. When things go bad, those losers you made excuses
for will kill you on sight as they destroy and loot everything just like the
LA riots and Katrina.
I have my bail out place already picked, I'll be watching you experiencing
the wonders of diversity on TV.
And I'll tell you "I told you so."
jaona...@nowhere.com
On 1-Jun-2007, "Chairman Mao says:" <Mao-z...@prc.com> wrote:
> Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
> news:miq1631b3o4n63phb...@4ax.com...
> > "Chairman Mao says:" <Mao-z...@prc.com> wrote:
> >>>> >Diversity and multiculturalism are liberal-Marxist ideals.
looks like Bob knob job's at it again
diversity is a wonderful thing if you live in Santa Cruz or Atherton, Bel
air but if you live in say Rochester or Camden it ain't so pretty
Rome's sense of diversity was through slavery
BTW I just got back from DC last month and it's still a shit hole
Chairman Mao says:
We can take up collection and send him to da hood for a diversity lesson.
<jaona...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:466109e7$0$4863$ec3e...@news.usenetmonster.com...
jaona...@nowhere.com
On 1-Jun-2007, "Chairman Mao says:" <Mao-z...@prc.com> wrote:
> Bob, needs to get outside his cubicle more often.
>
> We can take up collection and send him to da hood for a diversity lesson.
it is because of morons like slob "Da Hood" has came to us
stupid liberals all they care about is them selves
Bob LeChevalier
>>>Last time I looked, multiculturalism was a factor in the collapse of the
>>>empire.
>>
>> Perhaps. But it was certainly a factor in it lasting so long in the
>> first place. Rome alone could not have fielded the soldiers to
>> conquer the empire.
>
>Diversity let the no-loads right in the borders and it fell apart.
??? You read a strange history book.
>>>>> >How diverse is Ted Kennedy's hood?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea, and why would it matter?
>>>
>>>It matters,
>>
>> Not because YOU say so.
>>
>>>diversity doesn't apply to the status quo, why is this?
>>
>> Diversity does apply to the status quo.
>
>Examples? I'll be waiting to see your examples of diversity in those elite
>areas.
>We are not talking about the kitchen help or yard keepers for those mansions
>either.
Well, actually, that is a form of diversity.
>>>>> I do know that he works in Washington DC, which is quite diverse. But
>>>>> that doesn't matter either.
>
>Washington Dc is a shit hole,
That's your brain, not the capital of the United States, that you are
describing.
>who are you fooling?
I don't need to fool anyone.
>You make excuses just like a low level politician does.
You have no excuse.
>>>Work and living are two different things
>>
>> When he working in Washington DC, he is living in the Washington DC
>> Metro area. And he serves the entire state of Massachusetts, which is
>> fairly diverse.
>
>He is a crook with idiots like you as his supporters.
I don't live anywhere near Massachusetts, which has no shortage of
quite intelligent people who still tend to vote rather more liberally
than the rest of the country. Probably because of their intelligence.
>> Now why should it matter?
>
>It does matter, only an ostrich with his head in the ground can't see the
>writing on the wall.
You can't give any reason, after multiple times asking, therefore it
is common sense to understand that you are pulling this shit out of
your slimy ass.
>You play the fiddle (or skin flute) with your butt buddies
??? I don't understand these words, which sound like jargon for
subhuman racist slime hobbies.
>while Rome (USA) burns to the ground.
Not much burning going on around here.
>Liberalism is a major reason why the country is falling apart,
The country isn't falling apart. That's your brain.
>you people
>that promote diversity and multiculturalism are the backers of this nation
>going to the toilet bowl.
That nation is doing quite fine. It is YOU that belong in the toilet
bowl, with the rest of the slime.
>When things go bad, those losers you made excuses for
I made no excuses for anyone.
>will kill you on sight as they destroy and loot everything just like the
>LA riots and Katrina.
[yawn]
>I have my bail out place already picked,
Antarctica, perhaps. It's the only place "white" enough for you.
Hurry up and leave. We won't miss you.
>I'll be watching you experiencing the wonders of diversity on TV.
>And I'll tell you "I told you so."
Not likely.
dratster
> t
> - Show quoted text -
I look at these posts and am flabbergasted that this fellow actually
believes that we will swallow his lie that he has earned a PhD.
He is a loser who is obsessed with finding blame for his inability to
succeed; anyone who "needs" to post from 9pm to 3am on a Friday night,
is a loser.
dratster
An
Bob LeChevalier
>On 1-Jun-2007, "Chairman Mao says:" <Mao-z...@prc.com> wrote:
>
>> Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
>> news:miq1631b3o4n63phb...@4ax.com...
>> > "Chairman Mao says:" <Mao-z...@prc.com> wrote:
>> >>>> >Diversity and multiculturalism are liberal-Marxist ideals.
>
>looks like Bob knob job's at it again
>
>diversity is a wonderful thing if you live in Santa Cruz or Atherton,
I don't.
>Rome's sense of diversity was through slavery
Nope. They conquered foreign countries, and then made the people
citizens (and all their kids) if they served in the Roman army. Hence
the conquered Britons became Romans, as did St Paul of Tarsus who was
of course a Jew living in Greek-speaking Turkey.
>BTW I just got back from DC last month and it's still a shit hole
The (diverse) people who are moving into the city apparently don't
agree with you.
http://www.examiner.com/a-732769~D_C__s_black_population_still_declining.html
<Although the black population in the District has steadily been
< declining, the white, Hispanic and Asian populations have been
< consistently on the rise. Also according to the census, since 1990,
< the number of whites living in the District has increased 2 percent
< from about 179,000 to 184,000.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
>I look at these posts and am flabbergasted that this fellow actually
>believes that we will swallow his lie that he has earned a PhD.
I have no idea where you got the silly idea that I have ever claimed
to have earned a PhD. I have a Bachelors degree in Astrophysics. You
are perhaps confusing me with someone else.
>He is a loser who is obsessed with finding blame for his inability to
>succeed; anyone who "needs" to post from 9pm to 3am on a Friday night,
>is a loser.
I don't "need" to do any such thing. But frequently having insomnia
means that I am often up late at night after my wife has gone to bed.
And I am of an age where what I do Friday night is no different than
most other nights, except that my wife and I have somewhat less reason
to get up early in the morning.
lojbab
Chairman Mao says:
Listen Dratman, if you feel so inferior that you do not have an advanced
education, go get one.
White people need an advanced education, no programs for us- we must work
for it.
Maybe you can go even further than what Affirmative Aktion gave you, try
getting one of those African American Studies degree.
Now for working:
Russia kicked your Black ass out because you were incompetent? Why is this?
I saw the article written about your incompetence and reason you got fired.
I wouldn't have even hired you. -no teaching degree, no Ph.D
You claim to have evaluated their program and they didn't like your
analysis, what credentials do you have to evaluate any program?
You cannot get away with being Black in Russia, no programs or political
correctness/excuses.
The result? They ran you out the door, that job you had lasted a couple of
months. Is this a new record for you or what?
I can post 24/7 if I want to, I'm on vacation .
I thought you had your own Minority Preferenced owned company. Why can't
you take a vacation? Too much debt? Child Support payments?
You need to take a vacation Dratmanz and use this time to lose some weight.
Get a gym membership, I just got back from the fitness center. Get your
lazy Fat Albert ass in the gym. Are you still pushing 280 lbs, high blood
pressure, high debt lifestyle.
I thought you earned 250K a year (your previous claim)
With your claim of success, you should be enjoying the stress-free
lifestyle I have.
Your major problem is your feeling of guilt, you know you didn't make it on
your own. You also know you're not Black enough living the White mans
lifestyle, so to prove your blackness you need to battle those of us that
dare to question your culture or handout programs.
That's called guilt, and you distance yourself away from those failures of
your community because YOU know Black culture is a FAILURE.
Instead of doing something about it, you escape from your own culture and
then to relieve this guilt, you make excuses for your people.
That's a joke dratsmanz, don't expect others to put up with the garbage
culture of "Da brotha's" when you rejected this same culture yourself.
You don't like to hear the truth, so you follow me around.
LOL
Dats be da Word up wiff dat.
Chairman Mao says:
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:clb363tg2l551eqd3...@4ax.com...
> dratster <drichards...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>I look at these posts and am flabbergasted that this fellow actually
>>believes that we will swallow his lie that he has earned a PhD.
>
> I have no idea where you got the silly idea that I have ever claimed
> to have earned a PhD. I have a Bachelors degree in Astrophysics.
LOL! I'll take my order SUPERSIZED
(Since I'm guessing you are posting in alt.education)
I don't think you could get a position teaching middle-school physics.
You would need to go back to school to meet the min amount of education
credits. + Science and Physics Praxis examinations.
Community Colleges would require at least a Masters in subject area.
How can you legally teach with only a degree in this narrow-banded area?
(If you do teach)- just curious
I take it you are enjoying some type of Government job in DC? Just curious
again
To get a job position working for a top observatory, well at least a masters
min. Required = Ph.D.
Most observatories are based in West USA or on the Big Island of Hawaii.
Now if yo be Black, none of this above applies. AA will bail you out or
lower the standards just like it did for Dratmanz.
Bob LeChevalier
>news:clb363tg2l551eqd3...@4ax.com...
>> dratster <drichards...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>I look at these posts and am flabbergasted that this fellow actually
>>>believes that we will swallow his lie that he has earned a PhD.
>>
>> I have no idea where you got the silly idea that I have ever claimed
>> to have earned a PhD. I have a Bachelors degree in Astrophysics.
>
>LOL! I'll take my order SUPERSIZED
I assume you mean something by that.
>(Since I'm guessing you are posting in alt.education)
I am.
>I don't think you could get a position teaching middle-school physics.
Probably not, since physics is generally a high school level course.
>You would need to go back to school to meet the min amount of education
>credits. + Science and Physics Praxis examinations.
Probably I would (there are such things as temporary credentials, so I
could probably get a teaching job while taking the classes). I'm a
bit rusty, it being 33 years since I was in college, so I would have
to study a little. But it wouldn't be a big deal to do so, if I
wanted to.
But why would you think I have any desire to teach in high school, or
middle school for that matter?
>Community Colleges would require at least a Masters in subject area.
Probably.
>How can you legally teach with only a degree in this narrow-banded area?
Private school often have no credential or degree requirements.
Substitute teachers don't need much of a credential in anything
>I take it you are enjoying some type of Government job in DC? Just curious
>again
Nope. I've been an ordinary houseparent, running a non profit
organization on the side for around 15 years, though I no longer do
that.
I hope you know that government isn't hardly the primary employer
around here these days. The large numbers of universities and high
education level makes this a major high tech area; across the river is
probably the biotech capital of the world. Lots of companies locate
their headquarters because of the proximity to the government.
If you want to know what my degree was good for, it got me in the door
doing software development, as most any science or math degree will
do. I spent around 14 years in the field, worked up into systems
engineering and I still dabble in software and systems engineering on
the side, though not for income purposes.
>To get a job position working for a top observatory, well at least a masters
>min. Required = Ph.D.
>Most observatories are based in West USA or on the Big Island of Hawaii.
The ones in the US are. But then there is the Naval Observatory here
in DC. Or if I had a PhD, I could be a professor at any number of
universities. But of course I have no reason to want to.
>Now if yo be Black, none of this above applies.
It certainly would.
>AA will bail you out or
No. AA MIGHT help get someone into a university with a little lower
GPA or SAT/GRE scores. But they would still have to be able to do the
work to get the degree.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
>education, go get one.
>White people need an advanced education, no programs for us- we must work
>for it.
Tell it to Bill Gates, who dropped out of college. So did Steven
Jobs. Aristotle Onassis didn't even go to high school, though of
course he did have to work his way up.
Let us know when you are half as wealthy as any of them.
lojbab
Chairman Mao says:
pro-education.
You can give 3 people as examples and I can give statistics for 3 million
people that indicate education is still an important factor.
(Drop-out = less of a future)
This is most important for those that are from the White rural areas that do
not have some type of old money, family or political connections or AA
sponsored government race-based programs.
We still must do it the hard way.
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:qvv363dij0b762dma...@4ax.com...
Chairman Mao says:
> "Chairman Mao says:" <Mao-z...@prc.com> wrote:
>>"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
>>news:clb363tg2l551eqd3...@4ax.com...
>>> dratster <drichards...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>I look at these posts and am flabbergasted that this fellow actually
>>>>believes that we will swallow his lie that he has earned a PhD.
>>>
>>> I have no idea where you got the silly idea that I have ever claimed
>>> to have earned a PhD. I have a Bachelors degree in Astrophysics.
>>
>>LOL! I'll take my order SUPERSIZED
>
> I assume you mean something by that.
>
>>(Since I'm guessing you are posting in alt.education)
>
> I am.
>
>>I don't think you could get a position teaching middle-school physics.
>
> Probably not, since physics is generally a high school level course.
>
>>You would need to go back to school to meet the min amount of education
>>credits. + Science and Physics Praxis examinations.
>
> Probably I would (there are such things as temporary credentials, so I
> could probably get a teaching job while taking the classes). I'm a
> bit rusty, it being 33 years since I was in college, so I would have
> to study a little. But it wouldn't be a big deal to do so, if I
> wanted to.
>
> But why would you think I have any desire to teach in high school, or
> middle school for that matter?
>
>>Community Colleges would require at least a Masters in subject area.
>
> Probably.
>
>>How can you legally teach with only a degree in this narrow-banded area?
>
> Private school often have no credential or degree requirements.
> Substitute teachers don't need much of a credential in anything
Ok, that's true
>
>>I take it you are enjoying some type of Government job in DC? Just
>>curious
>>again
>
> Nope. I've been an ordinary houseparent, running a non profit
> organization on the side for around 15 years, though I no longer do
> that.
Why DC?
It's not the most greatest place in America.
>
> I hope you know that government isn't hardly the primary employer
> around here these days. The large numbers of universities and high
> education level makes this a major high tech area; across the river is
> probably the biotech capital of the world. Lots of companies locate
> their headquarters because of the proximity to the government.
>
> If you want to know what my degree was good for, it got me in the door
> doing software development, as most any science or math degree will
> do. I spent around 14 years in the field, worked up into systems
> engineering and I still dabble in software and systems engineering on
> the side, though not for income purposes.
>
>>To get a job position working for a top observatory, well at least a
>>masters
>>min. Required = Ph.D.
>>Most observatories are based in West USA or on the Big Island of Hawaii.
>
> The ones in the US are. But then there is the Naval Observatory here
> in DC. Or if I had a PhD, I could be a professor at any number of
> universities. But of course I have no reason to want to.
>
>>Now if yo be Black, none of this above applies.
>
> It certainly would.
>
>>AA will bail you out or
>
> No. AA MIGHT help get someone into a university with a little lower
> GPA or SAT/GRE scores. But they would still have to be able to do the
> work to get the degree.
>
That was the style 33 years ago when you were in College, now with lawsuits
and government funded research (and possible loss of funding)
Universities will pass low performing students to meet the Black graduation
quota. I hope you know these basic facts now.
Some universities are getting smarter; they will pick African students with
high-test scores and give them a free tuition ride. When graduation time
comes around, they use them to boost the minority Black graduation rates.
However, they are not African-American.
You will also be surprised that some of these students (especially females)
will go thru hell because they are expected to be African-American.
They end up getting all White friends (or Asian) which opens them up for
constant sexual harassment from the Black males who see them studying with a
White guy. Some have been attacked or worse.
Some of those sport-apes do not need to pass examinations or even show up
for them. They are passed thru the system as long as the team has a good
winning record.
You cannot say anything negative or face the possibility of being called a
racist and losing your job. The boiling point is coming, in the next few
years you are going to see people fighting back as the government has
failed. Black on White hate crime is common with some of the most horrific
tortures and rapes on record.
With the internet, people can bypass the liberal control on the media and
find the truth.
You can read what is is like to be a teacher in a Black school below.
By KATHLEEN PARKER
Kathleen Parker's e-mail address is kpa...@kparker.com.
> lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
>>>I take it you are enjoying some type of Government job in DC? Just
>>>curious
>>>again
>>
>> Nope. I've been an ordinary houseparent, running a non profit
>> organization on the side for around 15 years, though I no longer do
>> that.
>
>Why DC?
Well, I live in the suburbs, actually.
>It's not the most greatest place in America.
I know of no place I prefer. I moved here from California by choice.
>> No. AA MIGHT help get someone into a university with a little lower
>> GPA or SAT/GRE scores. But they would still have to be able to do the
>> work to get the degree.
>
>That was the style 33 years ago when you were in College, now with lawsuits
>and government funded research (and possible loss of funding)
>
>Universities will pass low performing students to meet the Black graduation
>quota.
Cites for the existence of quotas?
>Some universities are getting smarter; they will pick African students with
>high-test scores and give them a free tuition ride.
Cite that such programs are for African students only?
I am very skeptical. In general, foreign students have a much harder
time qualifying for scholarship programs than citizens.
>When graduation time comes around, they use them to boost the minority Black graduation rates.
Your evidence is lacking.
>Some of those sport-apes do not need to pass examinations or even show up
>for them.
That has been common for athletes regardless of race for decades.
These days, when they get caught, it usually results in a nasty
scandal and loss of eligibility, so again I am skeptical.
>The boiling point is coming, in the next few
>years you are going to see people fighting back as the government has
>failed.
Yawn. Racists have been saying this since before they lost the civil
war.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
>As someone who hangs out in alt.education, you do not come across as
>pro-education.
>
>You can give 3 people as examples and I can give statistics for 3 million
>people that indicate education is still an important factor.
>(Drop-out = less of a future)
It is MORE likely that a "white" can get away without a good education
than a "black".
lojbab
Chairman Mao says:
Do you have a URL for those statistics?
What about Affirmative Aktion
Same education, same qualifications
Who gets hired, who does not?
> lojbab
Chairman Mao says:
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"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:2cl463pmje5tains3...@4ax.com...
Bob LeChevalier
>"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
>news:tvl463lqer8amb8jv...@4ax.com...
>> "Chairman Mao says:" <Mao-z...@prc.com> wrote:
>>>As someone who hangs out in alt.education, you do not come across as
>>>pro-education.
>>>
>>>You can give 3 people as examples and I can give statistics for 3 million
>>>people that indicate education is still an important factor.
>>>(Drop-out = less of a future)
>>
>> It is MORE likely that a "white" can get away without a good education
>> than a "black".
>
>Do you have a URL for those statistics?
http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032006/perinc/new01_003.htm
http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032006/perinc/new01_006.htm
Lots of data there, but near the bottom
whites with less than a 9th grade education 9,505,000
mean income 16,710 median income 13,016 33 >$100K/yr
whites with a 9th-12th grade education 12,355,000
mean income 20,768 median income 16,199 94 >$100K/yr
whites with hs diploma or equivalent and no college 50,176,000
mean income 29,196 median income 22,710 939 >$100K/yr
chance of earning over $100K per year with no more than an HS diploma
.0000148
blacks with less than a 9th grade education 1,246,000
mean income 13,427 median income 9,832 5 >$100K/yr
blacks with a 9th-12th grade education 2,914,000
mean income 15,895 median income 12,455 2 >$100K/yr
blacks with hs diploma or equivalent and no college 7,680,000
mean income 23,324 median income 19,933 44 >$100K/yr
chance of earning over $100K per year with no more than an HS diploma
.0000043
Thus it is 3-4 times as likely that a white without a good education
will earn more than $100K per year. And among those without a good
education, the typical white with some level of education will earn
about 20% more than a typical black with the same level of education.
Feel free to do your own analysis. I just took a look at some
easy-to-figure standards, being quite sure of how they would come out.
>What about Affirmative Aktion
What about it?
>Same education, same qualifications
>Who gets hired, who does not?
Not relevant. The issue was, WITHOUT a education who is more likely
to succeed. Not in some particular job application, but simply, to
succeed at SOMETHING. "Whites" have so many more opportunities,
opportunities that "affirmative action" doesn't even touch, that it
really seems odd that you are questioning it.
lojbab
Chairman Mao says:
terrible thing to waste."
Affirmative Action DOES matter
It matters when someone else gets the shaft because of some quota only based
on race.
Of course liberals will not admit these things.
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:qhg7635escfqh13c1...@4ax.com...
Bob LeChevalier
>If so you need to donate to the United Negro College fund, "A mind is a
>terrible thing to waste."
Who I donate to is my concern, not yours.
>Affirmative Action DOES matter
It doesn't matter to the specific question that was raised, which was
your questioning of my comment
<>>>> It is MORE likely that a "white" can get away without a good education
<>>>> than a "black".
>It matters when someone else gets the shaft because of some quota only based
>on race.
Of course it matters. It also matters when a "black" gets the shaft
because a racist discriminated against him because of his skin color.
The latter happens a lot more often than the former.
Given that the "white" person who loses to affirmative action almost
always has an alternative, one that is often just as good, it cannot
even be said that such a person has "gotten the shaft".
The "black" person who is discriminated against due to skin color may
not have so many options.
The result, as shown in the data you try to ignore, is that whites
earn significantly more than blacks on average, even when both have
the same educational level.
>Of course liberals will not admit these things.
I have no idea or interest in what "liberals" will "admit". I am more
interested in what YOU will admit. I am not optimistic.
lojbab
Chairman Mao says:
Is this racism? or is this just poor oppressed people that are expressing
their anger because of a racist White America.
Read and Heed
Black Racism
By Ying Ma
In what passes for discussions on race these days, small problems are
often blown up large, while real traumas are completely ignored. For
instance, despite what President Clinton's "Race Initiative" panel has said,
the very rawest racial conflicts in present-day America don't even fit into
the tidy mold of white-majority-oppressing-colored-minority that activists
constantly promote. Though civil rights groups and most of the media
studiously ignore this fact, the nation's most fractious racial battles are
now conflicts between minority populations. Particularly horrific is the
animosity directed at Asian Americans by blacks in low-income areas of urban
America.
At age ten, I immigrated from China to Oakland, California, a city
filled with crime, poverty, and racial tension. In elementary school, I didn't
wear name-brand clothing or speak English. My name soon became "Ching
Chong," "Chinagirl," and "Chow Mein." Other children laughed at my language,
my culture, my ethnicity, and my race. I said nothing.
After a few years, I began to speak English, but not well enough to
trade racial insults. On rides home from school I avoided the back of the
bus so as not to be beaten up. But even when I sat in the front, fire
crackers, paper balls, small rocks, and profanity were thrown at me and the
other "stupid Chinamen." The label "Chinamen" was dished out
indiscriminately to Vietnamese, Koreans, and other Asians. When I looked
around, I saw that the other "Chinamen" tuned out the insults by eagerly
discussing movies, friends, and school.
During my secondary school years, racism, and then the combination of
outrage and bitterness that it fosters, accompanied me home on the bus every
day. My English was by now more fluent than that of those who insulted me,
but most of the time I still said nothing to avoid being beaten up. In
addition to everything else thrown at me, a few times a week I was the
target of sexual remarks vulgar enough to make Howard Stern blush. When I
did respond to the insults, I immediately faced physical threats or attacks,
along with the embarrassing fact that the other "Chinamen" around me simply
continued their quiet personal conversations without intervening. The
reality was that those who cursed my race and ethnicity were far bigger in
size than most of the Asian children who sat silently.
The racial harassment wasn't limited to bus rides. It surfaced in my
high school cafeteria, where a middle-aged Chinese vendor who spoke broken
English was told by rowdy students each day at lunch time to "Hurry up, you
dumb Ching!" On the sidewalks, black teenagers and adults would creep up
behind 80-year-old Asians and frighten them with sing-song nonsense:
"Yee-ya, Ching-chong, ah-ee, un-yahhh!" At markets and in the streets of
poor black neighborhoods, Asians would be told, "Why the hell don't you just
go back to where you came from!"
When it came time for college, I left this ugly world for a beautiful
school far away. Finally, it was possible to pursue a life without racial
harassment backed by the threat of violence. I chose not to return to my old
neighborhood after college, but I am often reminded of the racial
discrimination I endured there. On a bus not too long ago I saw a black
woman curse at a Korean man, "You f---ing Chinese person! Didn't you hear
that I asked you to move yo' ass? You too stupid to understand English or
something?"
In poor neighborhoods across this country Asians endure daily racial
hatred just as I did. Because of their language deficiencies, their small
size, their fear of violent confrontations, they endure in silence. Unlike
me, many of them will never depart for a new life in a beautiful place far,
far away. So each day they grow more bitter against a group that much of
America refuses to acknowledge to be capable of racism: African Americans.
In a fair and peaceful world, racial harassment will be decried
without regard to its source. The problem today is that prominent black
leaders rule out even the possibility of black racism. Activists like Al
Sharpton and Jesse Jackson intone that racism equals "prejudice plus power,"
and that since blacks in America lack power, they are simply not capable of
practicing racism against anyone. John Hope Franklin, chair of President
Clinton's race panel, angrily insists that racism is something suffered, not
dished out, by blacks. Many black professors, writers, polemicists, and
politicians repeat the same mantra. What might appear to be black racism,
writes syndicated columnist Leonard Pitts, actually boils down not to racism
but to acts of crime and rudeness from the perpetrators, and tough luck for
the recipients.
Rationalizers of black racism ignore the fact that identical actions
inflicted by whites would be universally decried as intolerable. Ultimately,
their arguments simply grease the skids for further traumatizing of
"unlucky" victims. And to real-life casualties of racial animosity,
motivation is not especially relevant. Loss is loss. Pain is pain.
Unfortunately, Asian Americans-and especially their leaders-have
failed to speak out on this matter. Complaints from wounded individuals
regularly boil into public view, however. In mid-August, I attended a
crowded press conference held in New York's Chinatown to discuss Indonesia's
history of discrimination against ethnic Chinese (which peaked this May in a
wave of bloody anti-Chinese riots). One woman at the event began to
hysterically scream out her frustrations over black American racism against
Asians. The woman, Mee Ying Lin, shouted, "Chinese suffer from racial
discrimination by blacks every day. We should help persecuted Chinese
overseas, but why is no one dealing with our own troubles in America?"
Rose Tsai, head of the San Francisco Neighbors Association, and
candidate for a seat on the city's Board of Supervisors, suggests that
everyday Asians rarely defend themselves against ghetto racism because
"Asian culture is just not that confrontational.. Asians are unlike blacks
who got to where they are in politics by being militant."
Tsai explains that Asian involvement in politics is at a nascent
stage, that it is difficult for her organization even to convince Asian
immigrants to vote, let alone make a political stink against racial
harassment. "Asians are just not used to standing up for our own rights,"
says another Bay Area Chinese activist with frustration.
That might explain the quiescence of recent immigrants who speak
imperfect English. But what about the growing cadre of Asian activists? They
are far from passive or non-confrontational. In just the past two years,
organizations like the Asian American Legal Defense Fund, the National
Asian-Pacific American Legal Consortium, the Organization for Chinese
Americans, and others have voiced loud condemnations of "racism" in American
society. But they have focused on events like the recent investigation of
Asian donors of illegal campaign funds, the Republican opposition in
Congress to Bill Lann Lee's nomination as director of the Office of Civil
Rights, a cover drawing for National Review that showed the President, Vice
President, and First Lady dressed in Manchurian garb, and even a recent
cover photo for this magazine that showed a handsome Asian male scowling
angrily at the camera.
If vocal Asian activists are able to work themselves into a frenzy
attacking everyday political tussles and editorial cartoons for their
alleged racist motivations, they are obviously capable of confrontation. Why
then do we never hear these national activists condemning black racism
against Asians in our inner cities?
Some Asian-American activists say the reason they have not confronted
anti-Asian racism among blacks is because the tension does not exist on the
national level, but is merely confined to some local areas. Karen Narasaki
of the National Asian-Pacific American Legal Consortium claimed in a recent
interview that black animosity is different in each city and ought to be
handled differently in each case by local organizations. David Lee,
executive director of one such local organization, the San Francisco Voters
Education Committee, concurs: "There may be a few communities and a few
areas where tensions exist-so it is better for community groups rather than
a national organization like the Organization of Chinese Americans to deal
with such problems."
Representatives of national Asian organizations also cite resource
constraints to explain their quiescence. They say black-Asian clashes are
not a serious enough national issue to expend scarce time and money on.
There is a difference, however, between not being able to expend
effort and not wanting to. Asian activists on the national level also
matter-of-factly justify black racism in inner cities as a direct result of
competition between Asians and their black neighbors over limited economic
resources. Narasaki, while acknowledging she is not an inner city expert,
insists that many black and Asian conflicts "have to do with the lack of
economic opportunities" in cities. Echoing this refrain, Stanley Mark,
program director of the Asian American Legal Defense Fund, asserts that "we
can't talk about race without talking about economic disparities."
In this vein, Asian activists consistently mention that racial
problems occur when Asian merchants move into predominantly black
neighborhoods and flourish. The vicious year-long black boycott of a Korean
store in Brooklyn in 1990, and the looting and burning of Korean stores in
south-central Los Angeles during the 1992 Rodney King riots serve as shining
examples of conflicts linked to economic disparities.
The excuse of economic disparities fails miserably to justify violence
and harassment, however. For some observers, it also brings up memories of
Nazi persecution of Jews, African attacks on Indian merchants, and recent
murders, rapes, and robberies of ethnic Chinese in Indonesia. All of these
atrocities were committed against people deemed economically well off by
larger masses facing difficult times.
In any case, the economic disparities rationale falls apart in the
many instances where racism flourishes in the absence of class differences.
At San Francisco's Hunter's Point public housing complex, for instance,
low-income Southeast Asian residents, who are in the minority, have
consistently encountered racial harassment from their black neighbors.
Racial slurs, physical threats, violence, and destruction of property have
festered for years. Philip Nguyen of the Southeast Asian Community Center,
who has worked on the case for years, notes that there are no economic
differences between the Asian and black families in the complex. The Asians,
he says, are very quiet and have made every effort to befriend the black
residents, yet serious friction has persisted for ten years.
Joe Hicks, executive director of the Los Angeles City Human Relations
Commission, painstakingly tried to bring blacks and Asians together after
the Rodney King riots. He believes that "much of the hostilities are due to
blacks' jealousy of Asian economic success, a sense of alienation, and the
self-perpetuating belief that blacks will always lose out in the racial
equation in America." He adds that "certainly economics gives a basis to
many of the problems," but asserts that "even if tomorrow we can have a
level playing field for both racial groups, we would still have animosity
and racial strife" because prejudices would still remain.
Asian activists who are not otherwise inclined to ignore prejudice are
often strangely anxious to apologize for black racism. In interviews, they
note that Asians harbor many prejudices against blacks too. This
explanation, however, has no power to explain the kind of harassment I and
many others like me experienced as young immigrant children beginning life
with no animus toward anyone.
Asian prejudice toward blacks surely exists. But whatever biases might
be harbored in the minds of Asian immigrants, many of whom had never seen a
black person before arriving in the U.S., they certainly don't rate at the
level of destroying black people's property, scaring their elderly folk, or
threatening and assaulting their children-the kinds of pressures Asians in
many urban areas now endure routinely. Asian youths in particular typically
start out with little or no inclination to distrust or dislike African
Americans. Young Asians are usually far more willing than their parents to
accept a new country and new friends, including black ones. In many cases,
it was only after innumerable frightening chases, assaults, and humiliations
that Asian attitudes toward blacks turned defensive. Those of us whose open
minds were confronted with hostility and hatred will never accept the
insulting assertion that our suffering resulted from our own prejudices.
It seems that leaders of the Organization of Chinese Americans, the
Asian American Legal Defense Fund, and related groups are disconnected from
the real concerns of many of the Asians they claim to represent. David Lee,
whose Bay Area organization is attempting to promote local dialogue among
minority journalists, believes that a fundamental disconnection exists
between the national Asian spokesmen and the new majority of Asians who are
recent immigrants. The prominent Asian civil rights leaders, he notes, tend
to be American born, to speak little of their ethnic languages, and to be
unable to read the local ethnic newspapers. Many of them do not know or
understand the problems in low income areas, because they live comfortable
middle-class lives. And so "it is not surprising that they are silent about
black-on-Asian discrimination," Lee summarizes.
Bong Hwan Kim, executive director of the Korean Youth and Community
Center in Los Angeles and an active member of the Black-Korean Alliance that
attempted to bring African- and Korean-Americans together in the eight years
before the south-central riots, describes a disconnection in the Korean
community between first-generation immigrants and acculturated second
generation residents with less familiarity with inner-city life. After the
shops of Koreatown were looted or burned, he reports, the more suburbanized
Koreans pushed inter-ethnic bridge-building efforts, while the
first-generation immigrants who toiled in menial jobs, bridled at having to
sit across the table from those who looted and burned their property.
Meanwhile, few of the prominent national Asian organizations even condemned
the violence perpetrated against Koreans in L.A.
Stanley Mark of the Asian American Legal Defense Fund argues in
defense of the national Asian organizations that people hear less from the
Asian leaders about black-on-Asian racism than white-on-Asian racism simply
because there is less of the former than the latter. Mark insists he knows
of no case where an Asian was seriously hurt or killed by a racist black
American.
Underlining the disconnect between national and local perceptions, Liu
Yu-xi, an organizer of the New York coalition of Chinese Americans that
mobilized hundreds of thousands of normally politically apathetic Chinese to
protest Indonesian violence against Chinese residents, chuckled at Stanley
Mark's ignorance of cases of black racism. Liu, who has known of many
racially motivated physical attacks against Chinese in New York, observes,
"Such crimes are reported often in the local Chinese papers, but the
national Asian activists obviously do not know how to read Chinese."
When asked why prominent Asians have said little about racial
harassment by African Americans, Bill Tam of San Francisco's Chinese Family
Alliance flatly stated, "I think they are afraid to say anything." To him,
it appears that Asian leaders are often fearful of the national black
leadership. National Asian organizations generally follow the lead of black
civil rights groups like the naacp so slavishly, another Bay Area activist
told me, that even when the latter's stances (for instance, on quotas and
preferences) are opposed to the interests and beliefs of many Asian
citizens, the Asian activists don't challenge their allies.
Rose Tsai of the San Francisco Neighbors Association was a little more
blunt: "Most Asian leaders do not wish to acknowledge that there exists a
problem because they do not want the minorities to fight amongst
themselves." As a result, national Asian spokesmen speaking for their
brethren are without any inkling of the real problems they face, or what
kind of racism is dragging them down. Recognizing the complex issues between
blacks and Asians, Philip Nguyen of the Southeast Asian Community Center has
a simple proposal: "Fight, not against or for any group, but against racial
discrimination."
Ying Ma, who immigrated to the United States in 1985, is a research
associate at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York.
Published in Fresh Thinking About Race in America November/December
1998 Issue
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:rvd863houuuimrpm0...@4ax.com...
Bob LeChevalier
Yes. In both directions.
> At age ten, I immigrated from China to Oakland, California, a city
>filled with crime, poverty, and racial tension. In elementary school, I didn't
>wear name-brand clothing or speak English. My name soon became "Ching
>Chong," "Chinagirl," and "Chow Mein." Other children laughed at my language,
>my culture, my ethnicity, and my race. I said nothing.
Whites in California did that too. I grew up there. Anti-Asian
prejudice was at least as nasty as anti-Mexican prejudice back then in
northern California. That doesn't make it right.
In
>addition to everything else thrown at me, a few times a week I was the
>target of sexual remarks vulgar enough to make Howard Stern blush.
That had nothing to do with racism or anything else. Kids do that to
other kids, and if they react, they do it more. I was subject to all
sorts of teasing and bullying (though they avoided getting physical on
me because I was larger than most of them by age 10) and that was
"white" on "white".
lojbab
Chairman Mao says:
Is this racism and also hate ?
By KATHLEEN PARKER
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:v1j963951rnjvf1to...@4ax.com...
Bob LeChevalier
>We are not talking about White, nice dodge.
>
>Is this racism and also hate ?
That seems to be what the court ruled:
>IN A NEW TWIST in American race relations, a federal court has ruled
>that a white teacher in a predominantly African-American school was
>subjected to a racially hostile workplace.
I have no special knowledge that would lead me to question a federal
court ruling on the matter.
lojbab
Chairman Mao says:
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:9kbb635b9c6n3ovfc...@4ax.com...