Andersonville Theological Seminary
Don
I work with a guy who is receiving a degree from Andersonville
Theological Seminary. Anyone know anything about this school?
Thanks,
Don in Dallas
One is often told that it is a very wrong thing to attack religion,
because religion makes men virtuous.
So I am told; I have not noticed it.
-- Bertrand Russell
Rich Douglas
"Andersonville Theological Seminary is accredited by the Accrediting
Commission International (ACI), located in Beebe, Arkansas."
ACI is an unrecognized accrediting agency, doing business for many years.
There is no substance to its process. Schools claiming such accreditation
are simply trying to fool people into thinking the schools are actually
accredited. They are not. Degrees from this school would not be acceptable
in any situation requiring a degree from an accredited school.
Rich Douglas
"Don" <calldo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:qvl5ev4h4pusfsf29...@4ax.com...
quisling
"Rich Douglas" <hrpr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d3IEa.7976$fh....@news2.east.cox.net...
Thomas Nixon
Tom
----
Author, "Bears' Guide to Earning High School Diplomas Nontraditionally"
Available July 2003
http://www.tomnixon.net
quisling
"Thomas Nixon" <tcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3EE3A381...@yahoo.com...
bigolehippie
Yes, not fraudulent to display BUT for professional purposes the
degree must be appropriate in content and accredited. In Maryland for
example a "pastoral counselor" must meet standard requirements to be a
licensed counselor (LCPC) AND meet requirements for a subsection in
pastoral training which must have certain content but may not be
accredited outside the denomination. Look, legal means not illegal.
It does not mean useful or accepted. boh
quisling
or regulation is required. But for ministerial positions, where
*technically* one would not need a degree, except as mandated by the local
church (oops, my being a Baptist just exposed itself), a school such as
Andersonville *might* be acceptable. Bear in mind, I am not defending ACI
in the least. I just think that someone could get a reasonable education at
Andersonville.
"bigolehippie" <PatrickM...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:sm29evkd939669i28...@4ax.com...
Don
wrote:
>This should say it all (from their website):
>
>"Andersonville Theological Seminary is accredited by the Accrediting
>Commission International (ACI), located in Beebe, Arkansas."
>
>ACI is an unrecognized accrediting agency, doing business for many years.
>There is no substance to its process. Schools claiming such accreditation
>are simply trying to fool people into thinking the schools are actually
>accredited. They are not. Degrees from this school would not be acceptable
>in any situation requiring a degree from an accredited school.
>
>Rich Douglas
I don't know him too well but he seems to be a sincere guy with good
motives. He was raised Baptist but is now leaning more Presbyterian.
He also attends a Presbyterian church...and Presbyterians value
education more than spirituality. I wonder WHY he is enrolled at
Andersonville!?! Guess I may have to slip him a gift copy of John
Bear's latest guide. It wouldn't be the first time I did that.
Rev. Dr. D*
(Yes, I know...it's honorary.)
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves,
but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russell
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
-- Mohandas Gandhi
quisling
Get a copy of Baker's Guide. Dr. Bear does have several things to say about
ACI, however.news:mvo9evohkltesfll6...@4ax.com...
Bakz
ATS has been approved by Georgia Nonpublic Postsecondary Education Commission for religious exemption 2082 E. Exchange Place in Tucker, GA 30094-5305.
"quisling" <dpowe...@nospam.gamecocks.com> wrote in message news:ve7na5g...@corp.supernews.com...
Lester Moore
Seminary students are not interested in whether or not the government
accredits the Bible or the teaching thereof. Nor are we interested in
whether the credits transfer to Fresno State.
I am an Andersonville student and it is great. But it is a lot of
work. ATS has trained over 10,000 ministers over the past 20+ years.
They don't hand out degrees. A large number of active Baptist
ministers were trained through Andersonville.
You should applaud your friend for his study. It will make a good man
better.
Don
wrote:
>Perhaps he chose ATS because it is sound in teaching the Word.
>Seminary students are not interested in whether or not the government
>accredits the Bible or the teaching thereof. Nor are we interested in
>whether the credits transfer to Fresno State.
>
>I am an Andersonville student and it is great. But it is a lot of
>work. ATS has trained over 10,000 ministers over the past 20+ years.
>They don't hand out degrees. A large number of active Baptist
>ministers were trained through Andersonville.
>
>You should applaud your friend for his study. It will make a good man
>better.
It will be fine if he plans to stay in a Baptist-type church and not
really go for a (real) graduate degree. However, he is very
"Presbyterian" in some of his beliefs, compared to the current SBC
agenda. Presbyterians usually demand a little more "traditional"
training of ministers.
I am not saying it is right or wrong. That's just the way it is in
real life.
Not to start an argument but...over the past 30+ years of ministry, I
have finally admitted to myself that the REALITY is that ministry is
ultimately corporate, no matter what name you give it. When a person
says something like, "The Lord is leading me to...", I know that have
made a decision that actually fits their personal agenda.
It's like the evangelist who was called by a friend to go to his
church for a revival. The evangelist had been on the road for ten
weeks and wanted only to get home to his family for rest and
relaxation. Finally, the pastor said, "And by the way, they built a
new golf course right by the church and I have a membership." The
tired evangelist immediately said, "When do you want me there?"
If my friend is headed towards Presbyterian ministry, he will need
something a bit more "legit" instead of Andersonville. He better
begin worrying about accreditation.
JMHBMAO
D*
=====================
Rich Douglas
"Lester Moore" <4_giv...@myway.com> wrote in message
news:8088f9a3.03060...@posting.google.com...
> Perhaps he chose ATS because it is sound in teaching the Word.
> Seminary students are not interested in whether or not the government
> accredits the Bible or the teaching thereof. Nor are we interested in
> whether the credits transfer to Fresno State.
Fine. But that doesn't make it (Andersonville) a university. This learning
can be accomplished in a variety of settings, none of which have to pretend
to be degree-granting institutions. And if the school is going to be a
university, it should be properly recognized as such (as many religious,
degree-granting institutions are), and should not claim fraudulent
accreditation. Many religious, degree-granting institutions are regionally
accredited. Further, there are seveal recognized accrediting agencies that
specifically accredit religious schools, so there is simply no excuse for
claiming accreditation from the dreadful ACI.
An education at Andersonville may or may not bring the benefits you claim.
But one cannot tell because it operates with absolutely no outside
evaluation, regulation, or scrutiny. It might very well be a good school.
But there is no reliable indicator of this, and at least one--ACI
accreditation--that speaks to quite the opposite.
Rich Douglas
Lester Moore
friend's (and other Bible students) feelings, please consider a
refrain in using terms like "real & legit." Most of us have been
studying the Word for a great many years, and we can certainly tell if
a seminary is "legit" in their course of study. Inclusion in a
secular "Guide" or acceptance in Oregon is a moot point to us. The
Word is all that matters. If your friend wants to transfer to another
seminary, he'll have an easy time challenging their tests.
ATS requires copius reading and lectures. Each course requires a
final exam consisting of around 41 essay questions. No "multiple
guess." It's a lot harder than I ever imagined. (Although a joy.)
In fact, the tape lectures that ATS uses are the same ones used at
many accredited institutions.
ATS makes it clear before enrolling (Info packet)that they are NOT
interested in "traditional" secular accreditation. They don't believe
that it has a place in non-secular studies. I agree. Also, the
tuition is very, very low and they have payment plans for people who
can not afford it.
Your friend is receiving a solid Biblical education. If he is a good
man, it will only make him a better man. Please encourage him with
your love and support.
"Religion doesn't fail a man, man fails his religion."
God has a plan for your friend. And you. Be Blessed! - LM
Don
wrote:
>My Brother, your points are well taken. In the interest of your
>friend's (and other Bible students) feelings, please consider a
>refrain in using terms like "real & legit." Most of us have been
>studying the Word for a great many years, and we can certainly tell if
>a seminary is "legit" in their course of study. Inclusion in a
>secular "Guide" or acceptance in Oregon is a moot point to us. The
>Word is all that matters.
I think I understand what you are saying. If "the Word" is all that
matters, that is fine. But correctly representing Christ to the world
should also be high on that personal list of goals. He is putting-in
many, many hours of work to obtain a degree. If his goal is to obtain
a "degree," then he is probably planning to USE this "degree" as a
professional degree, a representative of what he has learned. If that
is true, then he must consider the source.
To quote an earlier post, "ACI is an unrecognized accrediting agency,
doing business for many years. There is no substance to its process.
Schools claiming such accreditation are simply trying to fool people
into thinking the schools are actually accredited. They are not.
Degrees from this school would not be acceptable in any situation
requiring a degree from an accredited school." WHY would ATS even
bother with ACI unless they were aware that the term "accredited"
actually MEANS SOMETHING to some people?
> If your friend wants to transfer to another
>seminary, he'll have an easy time challenging their tests.
If ATS is THAT good, then they should have no problem with legitimate
accreditation from a recognized agency, correct???
>ATS requires copius reading and lectures. Each course requires a
>final exam consisting of around 41 essay questions. No "multiple
>guess." It's a lot harder than I ever imagined. (Although a joy.)
>In fact, the tape lectures that ATS uses are the same ones used at
>many accredited institutions.
Then why don't the help the students by seeking a legitimate
accreditation instead of an "accreditation mill???"
For the most part, the student body of Andersonville is an earthly
representative of Christ to the world. In 1Thes.5:22, we are
encouraged to "Abstain from all appearance of evil." The association
with ACI certainly gives and appearance of deception and is certainly
misleading some students who are unaware of what ACI really is.
>ATS makes it clear before enrolling (Info packet)that they are NOT
>interested in "traditional" secular accreditation. They don't believe
>that it has a place in non-secular studies. I agree.
ATS obviously thinks SOME SORT OF ACCREDATION is needed, or else they
would not have sought out accreditation from ACI.
Sorry, but ATS is simply putting their spiritual pride into print.
"We seek only God's approval, not man's approval." Don't you think
GOD also has standards?
1 Thessalonians 4:11-12, "And that ye study to be quiet, and to do
your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded
you; That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that
ye may have lack of nothing."
2 Timothy 2:15, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman
that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
The key phrases above are:
1) That you may walk HONESTLY towards those OUTSIDE of the body.
2) A workman that needs NOT to be ashamed.
ATS looked VERY inviting to me. I love the idea and the prices. I
enjoy the idea of getting a good, Biblically solid education at home.
However, shunning legitimate accreditation while embracing and
"accreditation mill" is not a good sign. One could say that it is
also misleading. THAT is the reason I asked about it on this forum.
>Your friend is receiving a solid Biblical education. If he is a good
>man, it will only make him a better man. Please encourage him with
>your love and support.
I will encourage him. I will also encourage him to consider what his
reasons are for attending ATS and what his plans are when he finishes.
That would determine his path in seeking a Christian education.
Thanks for all who are concerned enough to answer my questions.
Don in Dallas
www.donspiano.com
Lester Moore
You make some very valid points, indeed. I don't know why ATS asserts
any secular accreditation. Perhaps it is predicated upon the type of
sentiments that I have seen expressed here. Some feel that it is
important. Based upon your logic, (which certainly is sound) it would
probably be better if they did not have any secular accreditation at
all.
You seem to be a knowledgable Brother in Christ. Perhaps you can
contact them and express your concerns. (Only if you feel that ATS
would be a viable venue for you, of course.)
As for me, I'm enjoying my study through them. I have also studied
through Liberty, and I am enjoying ATS just as much, if not more. I
don't really regard a degree as an asset, nor do I care about the
accreditation. I am simply trying to abide in the Great Commission,
and wish to be articulate.
I wish you all the best, my Brother. Thanks for your opinion.
Lester Moore
"university." Nor, does it claim to be anything like a university. It
is a seminary that teaches the Word of God. I am a happy seminarian
and I don't care about secular accreditation. Separation of Church
and state. ;)
People who enroll at ATS know what its all about. They are very clear
about this in their information packet. What impressed me most is
that ATS has trained over 10,000 ministers. I performed a Google
search and found many of them to be Pastors of some fine Churches.
I have to admit that I am at a loss as to why you all take such an
interest in ATS if you are not planning to enroll there. Will someone
kindly explain this to me? Do you believe that this thread is
"protecting" people from "being fooled?" Please explain your
interest.
Be Blessed. - LM
Rich Douglas
attempt to portray themselves as a university. It has nothing to do with
the efficacy of the creation mythology they teach and preach.
In fact, I made absolutely no references to the quality of education
delivered by Andersonville. I have no way of knowing. My comments were
restricted to their lack of proper accreditation and their claim of bogus
accreditation from a fake agency.
Rich Douglas
"Lester Moore" <4_giv...@myway.com> wrote in message
news:8088f9a3.03061...@posting.google.com...
Rich Douglas
these matters.
People who consider enrolling in this school may or may not understand what
is and is not a university. But its false accreditation claim does not
help. In fact, it tends to confuse the issue. It would be better if they
had a statement on their website that candidly described their lack of
proper accreditation. Better still, it would be nice if they refrained from
awarding what appear to be academic degrees when they are not recognized to
do so.
My interest extends only to the extent that schools like this make claims oh
so similar to those made by diploma mills. This has been the case since
1979. I hope this explanation is satisfactory, because it is the only one
you'll get. Enjoy.
Rich Douglas
"Lester Moore" <4_giv...@myway.com> wrote in message
news:8088f9a3.03061...@posting.google.com...
Don
wrote:
>Brother Don,
>
>You make some very valid points, indeed. I don't know why ATS asserts
>any secular accreditation. Perhaps it is predicated upon the type of
>sentiments that I have seen expressed here. Some feel that it is
>important. Based upon your logic, (which certainly is sound) it would
>probably be better if they did not have any secular accreditation at
>all.
As someone already pointed out, there is no "standard" for knowing if
your education is "good" or not at ATS, since they shun accreditation
by a recognized agency and, instead, embrace an accreditation mill!
After getting excited reading the ATS catalog, THAT disappoints me
about the school.
>As for me, I'm enjoying my study through them. I have also studied
>through Liberty, and I am enjoying ATS just as much, if not more. I
>don't really regard a degree as an asset, nor do I care about the
>accreditation.
Liberty is accredited by the Commission on Colleges of the Southern
Association of Colleges and Schools and the Transnational Association
of Christian Colleges and Schools. As their web page states, a degree
at Liberty is actually worth something in the real world.
>I wish you all the best, my Brother. Thanks for your opinion.
I suspect that ATS has the potential to be a "real" school I haven't
taken enough time to examine the catalog or the faculty. I think
Liberty probably provides an excellent education WITHOUT compromise.
By their association with ACI, ATS is almost sending out mixed
messages. It reminds me of the Bible Baptist Church that cheats the
government on employee taxes.
After working in churches most of my life, I also strive to continue
learning and learning correctly. If I am going to spend dozens, even
hundreds of hours of intense study, then I would rather have a degree
that would be recognized professionally, a degree that actually
represents a higher standard, than to have a "Bible study" degree from
an unaccredited school or a school who misleads the students by their
association with a questionable organization such as ACI.
If you are only in it for the study of the Bible, then good for you.
You will probably learn a great deal. For me, if I were planning to
use my "degree" as a representation of what I knew, I would want to be
a "workman not ashamed" to present my credentials from a legitimate
school.
Don in Dallas
Bakz
properly accredited shouldn't it? Then there is no reason for them to claim
bogus accreditation is there? I'm considering joining a Baptist Church. all
our ministers attended properly accredited Seminaries. Why can't you?
"Lester Moore" <4_giv...@myway.com> wrote in message
news:8088f9a3.03060...@posting.google.com...
Lester Moore
> If what you say is true, Lester. Then it should be easy for them to become
> properly accredited shouldn't it? Then there is no reason for them to claim
> bogus accreditation is there? I'm considering joining a Baptist Church. all
> our ministers attended properly accredited Seminaries. Why can't you?
Brother Bakz, It gives me joy to know that you are looking to join a
Church! Praise God! If you currently belong to a Church, or have
visited others, did you inquire with the Pastor as to the
accreditation of their training?
You use the term "properly accredited." How can anyone properly
accredit the Word of God and the training of witnesses? Each
denomination has different criteria. The Episcopals Ordain gays.
Some Ordain women. Catholics do not permit Priests to marry. The
major deniominations can not agree with each other concerning Biblical
intrepretation. Adding secular guidelines for training would only add
to the confusion.
You are a thinking man. If you are looking to join a Church, listen
to the Pastor and compare what is preached against your Bible. If it
is not correct, shake the dust from your shoes and move on.
Accreditation is meaningless when it comes to religion.
Be Blessed my Brother!
Rich Douglas
>
> You use the term "properly accredited." How can anyone properly
> accredit the Word of God and the training of witnesses?
Right. But the concept isn't being applied to the practice of religion. It
is being applied to the practice of higher education.
The fact that many religious, degree-awarding institutions are properly
accredited negates any notion that such schools should for some reason(s)
operate without it.
> Accreditation is meaningless when it comes to religion.
The reverse is also very much true.
Rich Douglas
Lester Moore
> Sorry, but I'm no one's "brother," fraternally or otherwise, especially in
> these matters.
>
> People who consider enrolling in this school may or may not understand what
> is and is not a university. But its false accreditation claim does not
> help. In fact, it tends to confuse the issue. It would be better if they
> had a statement on their website that candidly described their lack of
> proper accreditation. Better still, it would be nice if they refrained from
> awarding what appear to be academic degrees when they are not recognized to
> do so.
>
> My interest extends only to the extent that schools like this make claims oh
> so similar to those made by diploma mills. This has been the case since
> 1979. I hope this explanation is satisfactory, because it is the only one
> you'll get. Enjoy.
>
> Rich Douglas
>
>
My Dear Brother Rich, ATS is authorized by the State of Georgia as a
legal seminary, with the authority to grant degrees. That is good
enough for those who enroll, as well as the countless thousands of
Borthers & Sisters who receive the Word from ATS graduates. Regional
accreditation is moot. Accreditation for ATI or whoever accredits ATS
is moot. I am not being trained from an accreditation agency. ATS
certainly is not a diploma mill based upon the criteria that I have
read in other posts. There is a faculty, a course of study, (which is
very challenging) and work must be done. Degrees are not handed out.
Most programs take years to complete.
Based upon the fact that you deny me, or any man as your Brother, I
must assume that you are not a Christian. With that having been said,
your opinions concerning ATS are moot as well, since they will in no
way effect your life.
I too, will abandon this discussion. The only reason I responded was
because a Brother asked if anyone knew anything about ATS. Being a
seminarian, I do. It is a wonderful, Christ-filled program that is
challenging, rewarding and the most affordable available. Spouses may
study for free, as well.
Be Blessed, my Brother.
Rich Douglas
"Lester Moore" <4_giv...@myway.com> wrote in message
news:8088f9a3.03061...@posting.google.com...
> >
>
> legal seminary, with the authority to grant degrees. That is good
> enough for those who enroll, as well as the countless thousands of
> Borthers & Sisters who receive the Word from ATS graduates.
That's nice. But authorization from the state isn't sufficient to define
what is and is not a university. Recognized accreditation is.
Regional accreditation is moot.
How is this? It is the single criterion by which society determines what is
and is not a university in the U.S. It isn't "moot," and an undefended
suggestion to the contrary certainly isn't sufficient to make it so.
Accreditation for ATI or whoever accredits ATS
> is moot. I am not being trained from an accreditation agency.
No, you're being "trained from" a school without proper accreditation.
Worse, it claims fraudulent accreditation. F-R-A-U-D-U-L-E-N-T. This is
hardly the sign of a substantial institution. And as I recall, "Thou shall
not bear false witness" is still a commandment.
ATS certainly is not a diploma mill based upon the criteria that I have
> read in other posts. There is a faculty, a course of study, (which is
> very challenging) and work must be done. Degrees are not handed out.
> Most programs take years to complete.
Because of the ACI accreditation and the lack of recognized accreditation,
one might conclude as prima facie that this is a diploma mill. I don't; I
haven't made any comments about the quality of education. Just the lack of
candor regarding their deceptive practices.
>
> Based upon the fact that you deny me, or any man as your Brother, I
> must assume that you are not a Christian. With that having been said,
> your opinions concerning ATS are moot as well, since they will in no
> way effect your life.
Whether or not I share your creation mythology is not relevant. As for
whether or not this affects my life, all frauds in higher education affect
all of us.
>
> I too, will abandon this discussion. The only reason I responded was
> because a Brother asked if anyone knew anything about ATS. Being a
> seminarian, I do. It is a wonderful, Christ-filled program that is
> challenging, rewarding and the most affordable available. Spouses may
> study for free, as well.
>
It can be filled with all of the Christ you want. But it should not be
awarding degrees. If it didn't, this conversation would be moot. (Proper
use of the term, BTW.)
Rich Douglas
Lester Moore
> > accredit the Word of God and the training of witnesses?
>
> Right. But the concept isn't being applied to the practice of religion. It
> is being applied to the practice of higher education.
>
> The fact that many religious, degree-awarding institutions are properly
> accredited negates any notion that such schools should for some reason(s)
> operate without it.
> > Accreditation is meaningless when it comes to religion.
>
> The reverse is also very much true.
>
> Rich Douglas
My Brother, in a previous post, you referred to religion as
"creationist mythology." If that is what you believe, again, why do
you care about ATS or those who would enter? You made it clear that
you do not consider any man your Brother. Why would you care if
someone entered a school that taught what you consider to be
"mythology," accredited or not?
I am sorry, my Brother. It appears that many of the people who post
in this news group will jump on any opportunity to degrade a school or
program because it does not meet their personal "standards." This
newsgroup is titled DISTANCE EDUCATION. Not Distance accreditation.
ATS offers a wonder Distance Education in Ministry. I believe this is
the topic.
Be Blessed Richard.
Bakz
> "Bakz" <bake...@bigriver.net> wrote in message news:<3ee8...@news.isdn.net>...
> > If what you say is true, Lester. Then it should be easy for them to become
> > properly accredited shouldn't it? Then there is no reason for them to claim
> > bogus accreditation is there? I'm considering joining a Baptist Church. all
> > our ministers attended properly accredited Seminaries. Why can't you?
>
>
> Brother Bakz, It gives me joy to know that you are looking to join a
> Church! Praise God! If you currently belong to a Church, or have
> visited others, did you inquire with the Pastor as to the
> accreditation of their training?
>
Yes
> You use the term "properly accredited." How can anyone properly
> accredit the Word of God and the training of witnesses? Each
> denomination has different criteria. The Episcopals Ordain gays.
> Some Ordain women. Catholics do not permit Priests to marry. The
> major deniominations can not agree with each other concerning Biblical
> intrepretation. Adding secular guidelines for training would only add
> to the confusion.
>
Baptists don't have the right to have appropriately educated pastors?
Only Episcopals, Catholics, other denominations and women have that
right.
Interesting philosphy you've learned at ATS.
>
> You are a thinking man. If you are looking to join a Church, listen
> to the Pastor and compare what is preached against your Bible. If it
> is not correct, shake the dust from your shoes and move on.
>
I'm a shaking the dust from your post.
>
> Accreditation is meaningless when it comes to religion.
>
Then why does ATS claim bogus accreditation if it is meaningless to
religion?
Have you not read:
Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord
that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting
of the hearers. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman
that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more
ungodliness.
2 Tim 2:14-16 KJV
> Be Blessed my Brother!
I think I'll pass on your blessing. It may be as twisted as your
logic.
Bakz
My Dear Borther Lester. Dr. Douglas is not questioning ATS authorization or
right to claim accreditation exemption. He is questioning its worth? It may,
or may not have value to you, nor to others. But obviously it does matter to
some of us, very much so.
Proverbs 4 (NIV)
5 Get wisdom, get understanding;
do not forget my words or swerve from them.
6 Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you;
love her, and she will watch over you.
Regional
> accreditation is moot. Accreditation for ATI or whoever accredits ATS
> is moot. I am not being trained from an accreditation agency. ATS
> certainly is not a diploma mill based upon the criteria that I have
> read in other posts. There is a faculty, a course of study, (which is
> very challenging) and work must be done. Degrees are not handed out.
> Most programs take years to complete.
>
> Based upon the fact that you deny me, or any man as your Brother, I
> must assume that you are not a Christian. With that having been said,
> your opinions concerning ATS are moot as well, since they will in no
> way effect your life.
>
> I too, will abandon this discussion. The only reason I responded was
> because a Brother asked if anyone knew anything about ATS. Being a
> seminarian, I do. It is a wonderful, Christ-filled program that is
> challenging, rewarding and the most affordable available. Spouses may
> study for free, as well.
>
7 Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom.
Though it cost all you have, [1] get understanding.
>
> Be Blessed, my Brother.
You to my Borther
Lester Moore
> properly accredited shouldn't it? Then there is no reason for them to claim
> bogus accreditation is there? I'm considering joining a Baptist Church. all
> our ministers attended properly accredited Seminaries. Why can't you?
>
By Brother, ATS could be granted regional accreditation. They choose
not to.
Please allow me to make something very clear. A very large number of
regionally accredited religious schools receive their course material
from one source. The Institute for Theological Studies. ITS has been
providing coursework and lectures for 50 years. ITS does not have
graduates. They are content and course providers. Here is a link to
their site: http://its.gospelcom.net/schools/ You will find the list
of Seminaries and RA Schools that use their material. You will also
notice that the Andersonville Seminary is on that list. I am
receiving the same coursework that many, many RA schools offer.
You will also find that the average cost of a single course at those
RA schools is $330. (Some are $650!) Andersonville charges me $25
that's Twenty-Five Dollars for the same material! Plus, my wife can
enroll for free! I will save over $20,000 with Andersonville and
receive many of the same courses. It's worth giving up RA to save
$20,000. If a company offered to sell you courses used by top drawer
schools for $25 without the accreditation, would you do it?
The object here is the education. Not whether like you decide that
its "legit."
I'm shaking the dust of this news group from my shoes. I wish the
Lord's Blessing for you all.
Bakz
No. Absolutely not. It5 is not moot. It is fraud.
> I am not being trained from an accreditation agency.
No. But, your degree will represent that fraudulent agency, whether you like
it or not.
> ATS certainly is not a diploma mill based upon the criteria that I have
> read in other posts.
True. But, ATS caters to those institutions.
> There is a faculty, a course of study, (which is
> very challenging) and work must be done. Degrees are not handed out.
> Most programs take years to complete.
>
Sad, isn't it? You waste years of your time and the Lord's money on a degree
that is underwritten by such a questionable organization.
>
> Based upon the fact that you deny me, or any man as your Brother, I
> must assume that you are not a Christian. With that having been said,
> your opinions concerning ATS are moot as well, since they will in no
> way effect your life.
>
Huh? My Dear Borther Lester, Rich's religious convictions are not being
questioned here. You are shunning the issue.
Don
wrote:
>"Bakz" <bake...@bigriver.net> wrote in message news:<3ee8...@news.isdn.net>...
>> If what you say is true, Lester. Then it should be easy for them to become
>> properly accredited shouldn't it? Then there is no reason for them to claim
>> bogus accreditation is there? I'm considering joining a Baptist Church. all
>> our ministers attended properly accredited Seminaries. Why can't you?
>>
>
>By Brother, ATS could be granted regional accreditation. They choose
>not to.
Why not? Obviously, they think claiming the term "accreditation"
means something. If accreditation means nothing, then why claim
accreditation from a bogus organization like ACI?
>Please allow me to make something very clear. A very large number of
>regionally accredited religious schools receive their course material
>from one source. The Institute for Theological Studies...You will also
>notice that the Andersonville Seminary is on that list. I am
>receiving the same coursework that many, many RA schools offer.
It the course work and your resulting education is the same, then why
would they claim and advertise their fake accreditation while bragging
that they are not otherwise accredited?
> I will save over $20,000 with Andersonville and
>receive many of the same courses. It's worth giving up RA to save
>$20,000.
Everyone has a price, even Christians. It is now worth giving up RA
to receive a degree that is worthless in the real world.
> If a company offered to sell you courses used by top drawer
>schools for $25 without the accreditation, would you do it?
I would not, if it takes as much work as seminary requires. That is
one reason I have not finished my degree. For me to be the worthy
representative of Christ, if I am going to claim this degree, it
should represent something other than a school that embraces a
fraudulent agency like ACI and publishes it in the catalog. We are
taught to shun all appearance of evil.
>The object here is the education. Not whether like you decide that
>its "legit."
The contraction is "it's." Another fine example of non-accredited
education, I guess.
You claim to desire only the education, yet I suspect you will brag
about your "degree" when you receive it, probably frame it and hang it
in a very visible location.
D*
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image
when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
-- Anne Lamott
Don
wrote:
>I work with a guy who is receiving a degree from Andersonville
>Theological Seminary. Anyone know anything about this school?
When I posted this a few days ago, I only wanted to know about the
school. I never intended for this to become a flame war. What I
learned from this discussion surprised me somewhat. Here are only a
few of my observations...
1) ATS brags that they are not RA yet they DO recognize the
importance of being "accredited, SO...
2) ATS EMBRACES and PROCLAIMS false accreditation from a fraudulent
agency.
(THAT says much about the "witness" of the so-called Christian leaders
of the school.)
3) People who have paid to take these courses defend their actions,
since they have already invested much time and money into ATS.
(Maybe we all would, after spending that much money)
4) People who have paid money to ATS will rationalize their action
and minimalize every criticism, even when the criticism is TRUE.
5) People who have PAID money to ATS are really not interested in
truth.
6) I have NEVER met a person who received a "degree" who did not
frame it and post that degree in a visible place for everyone
important to see.
7) Those who receive a degree from ATS will also probably frame and
post that degree, even knowing that the school claims fraudulent
accreditation.
(What their friends or the congregation doesn't know won't hurt them.)
8) Having worked in churches and with minsters and ministries for 30+
years, I found out early that, when one begins a conversation with "My
Brother...", you can expect self-righteousness to follow. You will
always get it.
9) If they use "My Brother" more than once, expect blatant
condescension.
10) Christians use the "shake the dust" cliche' when they realize
that they can't get you to agree with them. Being right or wrong is
irrelevant.
11) Some Christians don't care if they defraud the congregation into
believing that ATS is legitimately accredited. They will simply tell
the congregation, the "search" committee, their family that ATS is
accredited. They will NOT tell them that it is accredited by a FAKE
agency.
12) The ATS folks in this group do not care if the so-called
"Christian" leaders at ATS have mislead other Christians into
believing that the school is legitimately accredited.
As Gandhi said, Christians are SO UNLIKE Christ! No wonder people go
to the lake on Sunday.
Bakz
Obviously you have studied Proverbs 4:7
Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom.
Though it cost all you have, [1] get understanding.
Don <calldo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<beoievobku24qpjot...@4ax.com>...
Bakz
> > If what you say is true, Lester. Then it should be easy for them to become
> > properly accredited shouldn't it? Then there is no reason for them to claim
> > bogus accreditation is there? I'm considering joining a Baptist Church. all
> > our ministers attended properly accredited Seminaries. Why can't you?
> >
>
> By Brother, ATS could be granted regional accreditation. They choose
> not to.
>
Liar!
Since they have claimed bogus accreditation and fraudulently
represented that accreditation as "accreditation," that option will
probably never be open to them. It would be extremely difficult for
ATS to achieve even TRACS or AABC candidacy. At this point, they could
never possibly achieve regional. ATS committed the proverbial cardinal
sin when they fraudulently promoted bogus accreditation as
accreditation.
> Please allow me to make something very clear. A very large number of
> regionally accredited religious schools receive their course material
> from one source.
What do you mean, "course material ... " ??? Please define.
> The Institute for Theological Studies. ITS has been providing coursework and > lectures for 50 years. ITS does not have graduates.
ITS is an umbrella religious education organization. So? That doesn't
mean that they screen ATS to ensure content delivery. There isn't any
quality assurance here.
> They are content and course providers. Here is a link to
> their site: http://its.gospelcom.net/schools/ You will find the list
> of Seminaries and RA Schools that use their material. You will also
> notice that the Andersonville Seminary is on that list. I am
> receiving the same coursework that many, many RA schools offer.
>
I'm not impressed.
> You will also find that the average cost of a single course at those
> RA schools is $330. (Some are $650!)
>
Some are much more than that. I've paid $750 per credit hour.
> Andersonville charges me $25
That is exceptionally cheap. Obviously, You get what you pay for.
> that's Twenty-Five Dollars for the same material!
It is not the same material if it is delivered without accreditation.
> Plus, my wife can enroll for free!
You are putting your wife through this too? That is sad. Is it worth
it? Is free really worth it. Too high a price for me. I place a value
on my name.
Proverbs 22:1
> I will save over $20,000 with Andersonville and receive many of the same
> courses.
The same? Come now Borther Lester, surely you don't believe that.
> It's worth giving up RA to save $20,000. If a company offered to sell you
> courses used by top drawer schools
Again:
Proverbs 4:5-7 NIV
Get wisdom, get understanding;
do not forget my words or swerve from them.
Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you;
love her, and she will watch over you.
Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom.
Though it cost all you have, get understanding.
> for $25 without the accreditation, would you do it?
No. It's prohibited. I would lose my State instructors license.
> The object here is the education.
Then where is it? The true evidence of an education is not the diploma
nor the degree. It is the ability to formulate and defend an
argument. You have done neither. You should be receiving instruction
on defending our faith, not faithfully defending your future diploma
(term used facetiously).
> Not whether like you decide that its "legit."
Then again, it isn't me who is wasting years of his life. In truth the
actual, acceptance and ultimately the objective will be determined by
the congregation or mission where you pander your education. It is
their choice. Unfortunately many layman cannot discern a legitimate
degree from a improperly accredited degree. No distinction is normally
made, a bachelors is a bachelors, a masters is a masters and so on.
But, don't forget, some of us aren't so ignorant. Many of us Baptists
can actually write. You stand warned. Sadly, that congregation will
probably someday require a legitimately degreed pastor. Especially if
they ever need legal or appropriate family counseling where civil
intervention is mandated. One church in our area recently felt it
necessary to nominate their pastor for Mayor. They could not have done
so, had he not held an accredited bachelors. You cannot be a
missionary in some countries without a recognized degree. Thailand is
one country that has such a regulation.
> I'm shaking the dust of this news group from my shoes. I wish the
> Lord's Blessing for you all.
You've promised to leave before.
Rich Douglas
I referred to it as a "creation myth," not "creationist mythology." Big
difference between a myth and mythology, and an even bigger difference
between "creation" and "creationist." Jeez, if you're going to disagree
with me, at least get it right.
I've already answered your question (twice) about why it matters to me. If
you don't get the answer you want, do you just keep asking the question over
and over again?
To remove the discussion of accreditation from a forum about distance
education is ridiculous. Sorry if Andersonville's fraudulent claim doesn't
fit your discussion paradigm, but it really is germane to this discussion.
And it's not my "standards" that are at issue. In the U.S., it is
recognized accreditation that determines the legitimacy of a school.
Further, claiming fake accreditation is a clear sign that says "stay away."
If you chose to ignore that, fine. Your choice. But don't be shocked if
others disagree.
If you want to stop critical discussion of this deceptive school, stop
talking about it. But if you persist, don't be surprised if others feel
compelled to respond. Free speech is a two-way street.
Rich Douglas
"Lester Moore" <4_giv...@myway.com> wrote in message
news:8088f9a3.03061...@posting.google.com...
Don
>Well stated argument Don. Obviously, your education has value.
>Obviously you have studied Proverbs 4:7
>
>Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom.
>Though it cost all you have, [1] get understanding.
I had a friend, a Methodist minister, who was always Dr. Robertson.
he was a good friend with some very specialized skills...of which
preaching was NOT one. After working with him occasionally for
several years, one day I asked what his doctorate was in. He replied,
"It's honorary."
Oooo....well now I have an honorary doctorate. I used the handle
"Rev.Dr" for awhile. Then I realized how pretentious I was in using
it. So I stopped. I guess THAT might be the wisdom part. Knowledge
is good but wisdom is the application of that knowledge. I have
always prayed for wisdom, although I don't always apply it!!!
Rev. Dr. D*
You may bow at any time!!!
<gr>
(Overheard in court)
Q: Did you blow your horn or anything?
A: After the accident?
Q: Before the accident.
A: Sure, I played for 10 years. I even went to
school for it.
Rich Douglas
>
> By Brother, ATS could be granted regional accreditation. They choose
> not to.
This is unproven, however. And irrelevant. They're not accredited, which
is what matters. And if they choose not to be accredited by a recognized
agency, why do they claim ACI accreditation? Sorry, but you've only
contributed to the notion that this school is a substandard fraud.
>
> Please allow me to make something very clear. A very large number of
> regionally accredited religious schools receive their course material
> from one source. The Institute for Theological Studies. ITS has been
> providing coursework and lectures for 50 years. ITS does not have
> graduates. They are content and course providers. Here is a link to
> their site: http://its.gospelcom.net/schools/ You will find the list
> of Seminaries and RA Schools that use their material. You will also
> notice that the Andersonville Seminary is on that list. I am
> receiving the same coursework that many, many RA schools offer.
Good for you. Then why choose to earn a degree from an unaccredited school?
Your choice, of course. But trying to rationalize it to others gets you an
argument every time. Most of the comments about Andersonville have not
related to the quality of instruction. Rather, it has been focused on the
fake--and very misleading--accreditation they claim.
>
> You will also find that the average cost of a single course at those
> RA schools is $330. (Some are $650!) Andersonville charges me $25
> that's Twenty-Five Dollars for the same material! Plus, my wife can
> enroll for free! I will save over $20,000 with Andersonville and
> receive many of the same courses. It's worth giving up RA to save
> $20,000. If a company offered to sell you courses used by top drawer
> schools for $25 without the accreditation, would you do it?
Are you suggesting that the only differentiating factor regarding cost is
accreditation? That's absurd. Besides, it's not the courses, it's the
degree. I couldn't care less what Andersonville teaches, or how well they
teach it. But they're not a university, and shouldn't be awarding degrees
like one.
>
> The object here is the education. Not whether like you decide that
> its "legit."
But its behavior is anything but "legit."
>
> I'm shaking the dust of this news group from my shoes. I wish the
> Lord's Blessing for you all.
You've said that before. And as I've already suggested, people wouldn't be
talking about Andersonville's horribly deceptive practices if you weren't
touting them here.
Rich Douglas
Thomas Nixon
Lester Moore wrote:
>If a company offered to sell you courses used by top drawer
>schools for $25 without the accreditation, would you do it?
>
>
>
No.
Tom
>
>
Some 1
Depends on what "courses" means.
But I agree with the principle of taking classes for personal growth and
edification even if they are non-credit and non-accedited, so long as I
thought that the material and/or the teacher was valuable.
In fact, I'm planning to take some classes in the fall from a school
that's neither accredited nor even state licensed. Of course, it doesn't
offer degrees, certifications or university credit either.
That's significant, I think.
It's analogous to reading a book, except that I'll get personal
interactive contact.
But if I go beyond that and try to represent myself to other people as
having attained some educational standard that they can understand and
recognize, then some objective and public (human as opposed to divine)
standard has to exist in order for it to be met.
That's where accreditation standards come in.
Religious schools can ignore accreditation if they are just offering
growth and edification. Secular accreditation can be ignored when
seeking to meet God's standards.
But if you are seeking the recognition of your fellow men, human
standards probably are inevitable and unavoidable.
Some 1
Andersonville Theological Seminary is referred to by its initials,
that's 'ATS'.
And as we all know, the ATS is the Association of Theological Schools,
the recognized accreditor for theological seminaries.
So, to say 'When I was studying with ATS' in a Christian theological
context might suggest something rather misleading to many listeners.
Professor Smith
mislead others to think that ATS meant the Association of Theological
Schools?
user...@webtv.net (Some 1) wrote in message news:<7695-3EF...@storefull-2297.public.lawson.webtv.net>...
Luda
There goes trouble.....
Letters and letters and more letters.
That's why I gotta go back to school, so no damn advisor can mess with
me. I'm aware that my grammar is bad, so before someone who claims to
be a Doctor or an advisor shuts his mouth...
---
View this thread: http://www.online-college.info/article665.html
Luda
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