Ph.D. and distance education
Simon F. Quattlebaum
learning since there are very few schools that offer such a program. Any
advice, networking and stuff like that would be helpful. I live in MA but
am hesitant to apply to UMASS.
Thanks
2TH...@my-dejanews.com
studies (C&I, Leadership, other areas of education?). Also is the PhD the only
acceptable degree for you , or would an EdD do (kinda musical when you say it
quickly). Glad to assist, just forward a list. Max
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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Mark
There are a number of Ph.D. programs in various education related fields
by distance. Some options include:
COMPUTING TECHNOLOGY IN EDUCATION
Nova Southeastern University M, D
EDUCATION
The Graduate School of America M, D
Oregon State University M, D (pending)
University of Sarasota M, D
Walden University D
EDUCATION ADMINISTRATION
Columbia University-Teacher’s College D
(limited to current school administrators)
EDUCATION LEADERSHIP AND CHANGE
Fielding Institute D
University of Sarasota M, D
EDUCATION SPECIALIST
Nova Southeastern University D
University of Sarasota D (pending)
EDUCATIONAL LEADERSHIP
University of Sarasota M, D
Fielding Institute D
HIGHER EDUCATION
Nova Southeastern University D
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY & DISTANCE EDUCATION
Nova Southeastern University M, D
SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGY
University of Northern Colorado D
Lot's more info in the book but this gives you an idea. All of these
schools have been discussed in detail in this newsgroup and there are
many grads from most of these schools who visit the newsgroup regularly
as well.
Note: This list is from the 4/98 edition of the book. We are in the
process of updating for our 10/98 edition and some of these may need
adjusting.
Committed to your education future.
Mark Wilson
Distance Degrees, Inc.
http://www.collegeathome.com
(541) 459-9384
Mark
I'm not sure if you got my letters in response to some of your other
comments. You haven't responded to them - so I'm including that post
below for your perusal.
You will notice posts only this week pointing people to Thorson's guide
and to John's book on funding. Read all the posts before you jump to
conclusions that are not accuarate.
As for ripping-off anyone get real. Wow. We use an "M" to refer to
Master's degrees and a "D" to refer to Doctorates! How very original.
There are similar formats in every one of the DL books. A cursory look
at our fourth edition will indicate clearly that Thorson's excellent
book is not the source of ours.
- We have more schools.
- We have more degree field categories.
- We have different schools and degree categories.
- We have 25 chapters, Thorson has 16.
- We use URLs going to the DL part of the sites, not the root as Thorson
does.
- We don't agree on many phone numbers, addresses and URLs b/c we do
separate research and arirve at different conclusions.
- Our info is very up-to-date b/c it is redone every six months. E.g.,
we have 43 MBA programs, Thorson's Guide has 31. We don't include
probably half-a-dozen that she includes even, so probably have 15 to 20
she doesn't have.
- We don't include many of the schools she does because they are
site-based and largely local (e.g., Notre Dame's MBA). Nothing wrong
with that, just a little different approach. The end result is that we
probably have 20-40 different schools than she does, and vice-versa.
- We add new degree programs almost every day to our FREE monthly
newsletter. Why? Because it helps readers. We assume others in the field
will find our new schools helpful as well.
- We offer Dl headlines every month free to our purchasers b/c we do
LOTS of research and want to pass on the latest info, again, free of
charge.
- Our book is $14.96 versus $24.95
There are more differences than similarities.
Yes, in the past you had legitimate reasons to complain about us. Those
reasons are no longer valid. Is our latest edition perfect? No. We're
always excited about the next edition b/c there are always new
improvements (which is true with all of the publications in the field).
Last February we contacted every school by phone and URL to ensure
accuracy. Now, in preparation for the next edition, we are doing it
again only six months later. We have over 88 new degree programs to add
so far (many more will develop I'm sure), and over 30% of the phone
numbers and URLs that were correct only six months ago are no longer
accurate. Sometimes this is due to area code changes, e.g. The point is
that we are working on our second edition since Thorson's went to print.
Our info is ours. A cursory review will establish that fact.
The point is that we do our homework and those working here are all DL
students at different schools (all are volunteers at this point). We all
are excited about DL and where it is going. We're not getting lost in
the discussions that many on ths board are interested in. We still
approach this from the student point of view and want to provide answers
to the basic questions that are not addressed by others.
Yes, we are attempting to help people with answers on a daily basis,
both here, at the Messageboard we offer, in response to e-mailed
questions and by phone. I point many people to your info, e.g., on
credit for life experience because it is the best discussion of the
subject I've found. I told John Bear about the site posted by a H-W
graduate b/c it is excellent and include it in our book. I don't care
what the source is if it is helpful to people and all of you are in
different ways. Someone wanted personal counseling on doctorates last
month. I pointed them to Al Lepine b/c I trust he knows what he's
talking about and makes it clear that he offers counseling along those
lines.
There are people who we point to Bear or Thorson b/c for their
particular needs those books would be more appropriate. This is not at
all uncommon. You will find references in a number of my posts to both
Bear's and Thorson's books along with contact info. Each has a place and
srves a different niche.
We offer a product that is vastly improved over what it was. It differs
considerably from everyone else's. It helps many people. We always want
to improve it. We are very excited about the world of DL. As I indicated
to you, I would be happy to send you the next edition free if you will
e-mail me your address (privately of course). The same goes for Huber,
Chip, etc.). I already mailed you the newsletter with around 40 new
schools over our last edition. There are close to 90 for the August
edition. A quick look at that will find many schools not included
elsewhere (actually I don't know about Bear's new edition - we don't
have it...yet).
Like I said earlier, the first Honda' to hit U.S. shores were awful.
They improved and offer a great product now. Yes, it does have doors
like a Chevrolet, and a horn like a Ford, and an ashtray like a
Mercedes, but it is its own car with its own idientity. Our first
offering was a lemon - pure and simple. Our latest is much better snd
we're working hard on the next one to make many more improvements.
Give us a chance.
Sincerely,
Mark
In case you somehow didn't receive my earlier response, I'm including it
below:
Hello Steve, Chip, etc.,
I appreciate Steve most of the time. I am convinced that he really is
trying to protect the innocent. Unfortunately our early ventures into
this field were inept and brought down some well deserved wrath. Huber
forced us to work through legal issues we simply hadn't spent enough
time on. We dropped the non-profit. We moved the corporation to Oregon
from Delaware and we got our legal act in order. It should have been
done first. We were wrong and corrected our mistakes.
We learned from our critics and have SINCE put out four editions with
MAJOR changes. We changed the book's title. We reworked every single
page. The fifth edition will come out in October. We have researched
every single school in our book directly. Each school has been
contacted, each web site has been perused and each catalog has been
researched for up-to-date information in each edition. We scour the web
daily for new schools and have added 41 new degree programs since our
latest edition came out April 2nd.
We call every school just before publication to verify phone numbers. In
contrast to the others our URL's point to the DL part of the school's
web site - not the base URL. We have schools that neither of the other
two do because we HAVE done our own research. We have not copied anyone
else at any point.
We want to make a contribution. I suspect that Thorson wasn't too
popular when she started. Some of her chapters look incredibly like
John's etc. But after six or seven years she is now an "expert."
We have made many contributions of our own and have some more new ideas
in the works:
We were the first book to add Internet URL's for every school. Everyone
had E-mails before our book came out.
We are the first book to have an Unconditional, lifetime money-back
guarantee.
We are priced much lower than our competitors ($14.95).
We list all of the Schools at the site as well as all of the Degree
Fields, with Doctorates listed separately.
Everyone here has participated in DL as a student. I am currently
working on a second Bachelor's from Regents. Another staff member is a
student at Thomas Edison. I know from the inside what this is all about.
I have done portfolios, correspondence courses, and equivalency exams.
It is NOT second hand knowledge.
We update our book every six months to keep the information fresh.
Thorson's is updated every two years.
We offer FREE MONTHLY newsletters with all of the updates (new schools,
programs added since the latest edition of the book came out) to each of
our purchasers, along with the latest news related to distance ed we
think they will find helpful. I.e., our purchasers NEVER have to buy a
second book to have the latest information available to them. We are
unique here.
We offer free phone counseling and spend two to three hours a day simply
helping people with DL.
Despite Chip's critique of the Messageboard, it fills a genuine service.
Potential customers can find out AHEAD OF TIME whether or not the
degrees they are interested in are available in the book...BEFORE they
buy the book. That alone would make the Messageboard worthwhile. But a
careful reading will find much advice from me and others that goes far
beyond the that issue. Anyone can check out the Messageboard at:
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi/mb16578
By the way, Chip. I speak with at least ten people a day on the phone. I
ask many of them if they know what a Newsgroup is. Over 95% do not. Over
20% of our callers are on AOL. Many of our callers don't have e-mail.
They're using the Net at work on borrowed time. I wish people did know
about newsgroups but I KNOW most do not. I list this newsgroup in the
book anyway, but most simply don't understand newsgroups...yet.
Hopefully that will change over time. They DO UNDERSTAND click here for
a Messageboard.
When callers tell us they have Bear's book, we almost always tell them
they don't need ours (the exception would be if they have an old
edition). I have never had anyone mention Thorson's book, although every
caller who asks about high school is given Marcie's phone number. Many
are sent to John's site or given his phone number as well. Each of these
books fits different niches. There are times when I suggest either Bear
or Thorson to callers for a variety of reasons where there books are
stronger or meet a need ours doesn't.
We ARE a Better Business Bureau company. We have never had a single
complaint from anyone. We honor our guarantee and we ship all books out
within 24 hours as promised.
The Better Business Bureau DOES have an online program for members. You
can read all about it by going to our address at the Bureau. It is a
clickable link on the site and indicates that the reader can click on
the logo and check our record with the BBB.
http://www.bbb.org/bbbonline/bbbol.cgi?id=1136000119
We don't feature my name on the site because the focus is the book. I'm
nobody and prefer to stay that way. The information is what is key. The
reason we have less than 1/4 of 1% ever ask for a refund is because the
book meets needs and the information is very accurate.
Bottom line. We made mistakes in the beginning. We learned our lesson
and have made major improvements. We deserve a second look by those who
met us in the early stages.
I sent a copy of our last edition to John Bear because we had used some
info from his book before without realizing it was a problem. After
being taken to the woodshed - deservedly so, we learned our lesson and
fixed those problems.
I will send a copy of the new edition (October) to Steve Levicoff, Chip
White, and Huber. I could send this one, but we have some big changes in
the upcoming edition and would prefer to wait. John Bear has seen this
one, has no complaint with us regarding copyright etc., and has
indicated it is a big improvement. It is.
Bottom line. Over 95% of Americans don't believe you can earn a
legitimate, accredited degree via distance learning. Everyone on the
Board knows about Bear but ask the average person on the street and
you'll get a blank look. There is room for competition and new thinking.
Criticism of today's product is WELCOME. That's how we find out our
mistakes (we list all of the one's we find in each edition in the
Newsletter so purchasers can take advantage of this).
Thanks for taking the time to read this. Steve, Chip, keep up the good
work. Please don't let the past blind you to what is being produced
today. Like the early Honda cars - our first model was a lemon. It is
now approaching Accord quality and we're working hard to improve it in
every subsequent edition.
Despite our free newsletter, we have reorders of the hard copy from many
HR departments, school libraries, colleges and universities, and
individuals around the country and the world. They clearly think it is
"worth it."
Sincerely and with respect to each of the above named contributors to
DL,
Mark Wilson
http://www.collegeathome.com
(541) 459-9383
The attempt
Steve Levicoff wrote:
>
> Mark <sa...@collegeathome.com> writes:
>
> >Hello Simon,
> >
> >There are a number of Ph.D. programs in various education related
> >fields by distance. Some options include:
> >
> >COMPUTING TECHNOLOGY IN EDUCATION
> >Nova Southeastern University M, D
> >
> >EDUCATION
> >The Graduate School of America M, D
> >Oregon State University M, D (pending)
> >University of Sarasota M, D
> >Walden University D
> >
> > [Remainder of list snipped]
> >
> >Lot's more info in the book but this gives you an idea. All of these
> >schools have been discussed in detail in this newsgroup and there are
> >many grads from most of these schools who visit the newsgroup
> regularly
> >as well.
> >
> >Note: This list is from the 4/98 edition of the book. We are in the
> >process of updating for our 10/98 edition and some of these may need
> >adjusting.
> >
> >Committed to your education future.
> >Mark Wilson
> >Distance Degrees, Inc.
>
> Unfuckingbelievable! After all this time, Mark is still ripping off
> Marcie Thorson's *exact* format, not missing a beat when there's a
> chance of hyping his own book.
>
> ,-~~-.___.
> / | ' \
> ( ) 0
> \_/-, ,----'
> ==== //
> / \-'~; /~~~(O)
> / __/~| / |
> =( _____| (_________|
> -----------------------------------
> Steve Levicoff
> levi...@ix.netcom.com
> http://members.tripod.com/~levicoff
> -----------------------------------
--
Steve Levicoff
gali...@kersur.net
"Simon F. Quattlebaum" <simon.qu...@the-spa.com> wrote:
> I'm looking into obtaining a Ph.D. in education. I'm considering distance
> learning since there are very few schools that offer such a program. Any
> advice, networking and stuff like that would be helpful. I live in MA but
> am hesitant to apply to UMASS.
> Thanks
>
doctoral programs but as a fellow ?Massachusettsite? Massachusettsonian?
(I live in central MA) I'm curious about your hesitancy in regards to
applying to UMass. I'm interested in a Philosophy PhD and while UMass
actually has a pretty good program, they seem to be too inflexible to
meet my scheduling needs. Right now I'm leaning towards Union Institute.
Good luck! Jack
Wm. Dennis Huber
I have been aware for some time of your "new edition" and your claim that
you have "seen the light" and "turned over a new leaf," etc., etc. I have
been waiting to see what developed.
If, as you claim, you have learned from your past "mistakes" (or from
getting caught making them), that is good. Everyone is entitled to
mistakes. Everyone is entitled to change his or her behavior to correct the
mistakes.
I will reserve judgment, however, as to whether you actually have. I will
not automatically reject your claims, but neither can I accept them at face
value. It remains to be seen whether your new claims are true. One of the
most important factors is, of course, John's and Marcie's reactions to your
"new edition." When, and if, they make a report here that your "new edition"
is free from plagiarism in both format and content, I will accept their
report and will acknowledge your contributions to DL as legitimate. (BTW, I
didn't see anywhere where you said you would send a copy to Marcie. An
oversight on my part? Or yours?) If not, you will continue to be seen, and
treated as, a pariah.
Fair enough?
--
Wm. Dennis Huber
WDHub...@msn.com
To reply remove NOT from address
http://members.tripod.com/~WDHuber/
Mark wrote in message <35AC3DBC...@collegeathome.com>...
>Hmmm,
>
>I'm not sure if you got my letters in response to some of your other
>comments. You haven't responded to them - so I'm including that post
>below for your perusal.
<>
>
Mark
Abundantly fair!
John Bear has seen and commented on the 4th edition in this newsgroup.
Marcie has not seen it to my knowledge. Frankly, her communications have
been very very caustic and I gave up trying to be civil with her. After
we changed the name she has been better but we are clearly seen as a
threat - something we never meant to be, nor do I think we are now. We
have always marketed to different groups. John, on the other hand, has
been a gentleman from the beginning. he asked for a copy and I sent him
one. Marcie never did so I never thought to send her one. Why should I
assume she would want one?
Her approach and ours is very very different. For most buyers of her
book (bookstores, users in libraries) her book is a better book than
ours. Why? Because most people purchasing in a bookstore don't have
access to the Net. She describes each program with an overview,
highlights of each program if you will usually in a single page for each
school. She can't cover them all but I think she does an incredibly good
job of it with that approach. In other words, users of Marcie's book get
some idea of what is involved with each program from the book itself
regardless of whether they use the Net or not. Doing that every two
years means the info will be dated in many many cases, but it does offer
an overview that we don't.
We assume that our purchasers DO use the Net because that is where we
focus our efforts. As we indicated initially, we wanted to go where
Thorson wasn't, i.e. on the Net instead of her marketing channels,
bookstores and libraries.
We include much less detail on each school (more like John's frankly),
knowing that our users can and will go directly to the school's URL and
get the indepth info on the program they're interested in. Most schools
offer tons of info that goes way beyond what anyone can say in a single
page in a DL book. Thus our approach with our audience. When people
contact us and tell us they don't have access to the Net I almost always
send them to Thorson. For them, it is a better book.
(I remain very concerned about the many sites selling 1992 editions of
Marcie's book at $16.95. These should not be allowed to be sold. Marcie
tells me she has nothing to do with it. I don't see old copies of Bear's
books being sold so am a little confused. All I know is that buyers of
THOSE books are definitely being ripped off!!!)
Because of our approach we can include info on lots of other things and
more schools. Having attended a distance law school I've included a
chapter on that, e.g. Having attended two distance religious schools, I
have included a chapter on that as well. I have no interest personally
in high school DL, so exclude it. Marcie does and I'm all for sending
people her way because of it.
A fair perusal of any serious effort at DL will see the tracks of John
Bear in them all. We ALL build on his rather massive shoulders. He
included a chapter on Regent's Credit Bank Service. He came up with a
chapter on credit for life experience, and for contract learning. No one
can offer a book now without featuring these as well and I give credit
to both John and Marcie in a number of places although my own research
on the subject and personal experience is behind everything I write on
each of those subjects.
You would be amazed how similar different section are in Marcie's book
to John's. She never credits John for them (e.g., the 8 points listed in
their respective chapters on Credit For Life Experience - there are many
others). I see this as almost inevitable however. I wonder what a group
like this would do if her book appeared out of nowhere TODAY with these
clearly comparable sections and no credit to John Bear?
In our first edition I used data inappropriately. I didn't understand
where the lines should have been drawn and made major mistakes. I
learned and I grew from it. I corrected them.
Fair question? Absolutely. I will send each of you, and Marcie the
October edition. Bear can tell you about the current one. I'm always
excited about the next one because ours is a work in progress and we
always have new ideas and changes in every chapter for each edition. We
are NOT resting on our laurels with what we've already done. We are in
negotiations for some major changes that will benefit the DL world. I
really hope we can get it worked through. Everyone will benefit from it.
I would expect everyone to use that idea if it is allowed, just as
everyone uses URLs for every school now. Before ours everyone used
e-mails only. In fact, we haven't included e-mails at all and will only
introduce them in the next edition adn you will see that we ghave
different ones than Marcie probably half the time. No, I doubt anyone
copied us - it was just a natural evolutionary step. But our early
efforts with URLs indicate an interest in trying to add new things to
the DL world. We belive our free updates is quite novel anywhere in book
publishing and definitely benefits the end user. The same might be said
for the MessageBoard. I also answer questions all day long for callers.
A receptionist who only takes orders does not usually take the calls...I
do, because most people have lots of questions and I have more answers
here than the others do.
Gotta get some sleep. I appreciate you for many reasons - not the least
of which is forcing me to deal with legal paper work stuff I hate and
postpone as long as possible. Working with lawyers for six years gave me
great respect for them and a realization that I wasn't cut out to be
one. You nailed my early sloppiness as a lawyer should. Thanks.
To be continued.
Mark
P.S. By the way, I'm still trynig to find someone I can refer people to
on a counseling basis particularly on the doctoral level. I have very
little experience with this personally (not having a doctorate). I sent
someone to Al Lepine but two e-mails later with requests on his costs
and what happened with the first referral I have heard nothing back. I
want someone who DOES respond to me and any potential clients. You seem
awfully busy with your DBA but you certainly know the field. Steve
indicates at his site he doesn't have time to deal with the many people
who e-mail him so I assume he isn't available for that on a personal
level with people. I dont' get it often butthese people want to pay for
hand holding and personal direction regarding their doctorate.
Bottom line, if you or anyone else out there is interested, please let
me know. You have to know what you're talking about and be responsive.
Thanks.
> >Hmmm,
> >
> >I'm not sure if you got my letters in response to some of your other
> >comments. You haven't responded to them - so I'm including that post
> >below for your perusal.
>
> <>
>
> >
> >Bottom line. We made mistakes in the beginning. We learned our lesson
> >and have made major improvements. We deserve a second look by those who
> >met us in the early stages.
> >
> >I sent a copy of our last edition to John Bear because we had used some
> >info from his book before without realizing it was a problem. After
> >being taken to the woodshed - deservedly so, we learned our lesson and
> >fixed those problems.
> >
> >I will send a copy of the new edition (October) to Steve Levicoff, Chip
> >White, and Huber. I could send this one, but we have some big changes in
> >the upcoming edition and would prefer to wait. John Bear has seen this
> >one, has no complaint with us regarding copyright etc., and has
> >indicated it is a big improvement. It is.
--
Jonathan Whatley
Mark Wilson <sa...@collegeathome.com> wrote:
> Marcie has not seen it to my knowledge. Frankly, her communications have
> been very very caustic and I gave up trying to be civil with her. After
> we changed the name she has been better but we are clearly seen as a
> threat - something we never meant to be, nor do I think we are now.
Sorry, I can't buy a representation of Marcie as a spiteful monopolist.
> Committed to your education future.
Is this grammatical? It certainly does not sound idiomatic.
Jonathan Whatley
Jonathan Whatley
Mark Wilson <sa...@collegeathome.com> wrote:
> All of these schools have been discussed in detail in this newsgroup
> and there are many grads from most of these schools who visit the
> newsgroup regularly as well.
I can identify by name an NSU grad and a Sarasota student. I honestly
don't know of any TGSA, Oregon State, Teacher's College, Fielding,
Northern Colorado or Walden grad regulars here. Am I missing something?
I would also hesitate to say any of these, and perhaps any school besides
Regents, TESC, Norwich, Union, Grantham, and various unaccredited schools,
have been discussed in much "detail" here. Again, am I missing something?
Mark, don't feel obligated to bluster about to win the group's approval.
Jonathan Whatley
Chip White
io...@interlog.com (Jonathan Whatley) wrote:
>
>I can identify by name an NSU grad and a Sarasota student. I honestly
>don't know of any TGSA, Oregon State, Teacher's College, Fielding,
>Northern Colorado or Walden grad regulars here. Am I missing something?
>
>I would also hesitate to say any of these, and perhaps any school besides
>Regents, TESC, Norwich, Union, Grantham, and various unaccredited schools,
>have been discussed in much "detail" here. Again, am I missing something?
I have to agree... it seems that we *do* spend an awful lot of time
suggesting the "big 3" for undergrad, when there are dozens of probably just
as good or better schools... and interchange on grad programs, other than
Union, Fielding, H-W and a few others is pretty minimal.
For instance, does anyone have direct experience with Eastern Oregon
University? They seem to have a nice, inexpensive, but very small DL program
that's very inexpensive. I've talked to them, and they seem very helpful...
but that's all I know.
Likewise, the Regis University and Skidmore programs also appear to be good
DL programs -- and have the advantage of offering a degree that wouldn't be
instantly recognized as DL, as would Regents and TESC. Yet I've seen no one
posting who has direct experience with these either.
As our four book authors will attest, there are probably more than a hundred
accredited DL programs out there... and there must be *thousands* of lurkers
out there... maybe we can "shake the trees" and get a few of the lurkers to
post on their experiences.
Chip
Jonathan Whatley
> In article <35AC5A72...@collegeathome.com>,
> Mark Wilson <sa...@collegeathome.com> wrote:
>
> > Marcie has not seen it to my knowledge. Frankly, her communications
> > have been very very caustic and I gave up trying to be civil with her.
> > After we changed the name she has been better but we are clearly seen
> > as a threat - something we never meant to be, nor do I think we are now.
>
> Sorry, I can't buy a representation of Marcie as a spiteful monopolist.
Alright, boys and girls, here's the pitch...
Marcie Thorson, the Judge Judy of Distance Education!
Interested parties should speak with my agent.
(That was just a figure of speech. I'm proud to say I fired Levicoff after
he tried to pass off the back of his truck as a legitimate casting couch.)
Jonathan Whatley