My response to the "proof" that UConn accepts Saint Regis degrees

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John Bear

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May 1, 2003, 6:36:41 PM5/1/03
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SUMMARY OF THIS LENGTHY MESSAGE

1. “Dr. Brown” defends legitimacy of St. Regis University

2. John Bear challenges “Dr. Brown” to name even one legitimate US
university that would accept St. Regis degrees.

3. “Dr. Blackwell” responds, offering a memo from the Director of
Graduate Admissions of the University of Connecticut.

4. The Director of Graduate Admissions makes very clear that her memo
related to Liberian Bachelor’s degrees in general, and not to St. Regis
University.

5. The Director of Graduate Admissions also makes very clear that her
university does not accept the degrees of St. Regis University.

6. The details follow. John Bear continues to be unaware of even one of
the more-than-6,000 US colleges and universities with CHEA-recognized
accreditation that has a policy of accepting the degrees of St. Regis
University.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ITEM 1
"Dr. Brown" posted the on the alt.education.distance news group:

The fact has become abundantly clear that there is some dissention
regarding the legitimacy of SURE degrees. Although the assessment
process is very un-traditional, one cannot in the vain attempts to
justify oneself, expostulate with precedents which are absent. Never has
there been a College that evaluates in such a way and is still
accredited by the Ministry of education. In a legal respect, An SURE
degree is more legitimate than a regionally accredited degree, in that
it is recognized by the highest authority, the government. One should
not dismiss the importance of life-experience. When a college student
graduates from college, he does not suddenly transform theoretical
rhetoric into viable results does he? He does not have adequate real
life experience does he? Knowledge is useless without the demonstrated
results, therefore it is my judgment that life-experience degrees
accredited in a legitimate manner by the appropriate authority is to be
more highly esteemed than a regionally accredited degree. Excuse the
exhaustive length of this post
Dr. Brown
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ITEM 2
John Bear responded on alt.education.distance as follows:

If Doctor Brown could name just one of the 6,000+ US colleges and
universities with
CHEA-recognized accreditation that have a policy of accepting credits or
degrees of St. Regis, I
would need to change my thinking about this institution.
Just one.
Only one.
Merely one.
Thank you.
PS: Can you find thirteen spelling errors in the good Doctor's short
post?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ITEM 3
John Bear received the following personal Email from “Dr. Blackwell”

Subject: Merely one, just one
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:49:48 -0700
Dear John,
I have been viewing your posts for some time now. Per your request to
see only one, please see attached.

Are you are a man of your word?  

Do you have the integrity to post your change of thinking?

Sincerely,
Blackwell
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ITEM 4
Attached to the Email from “Dr. Blackwell” was a copy of a memo on the
letterhead of the University of Connecticut Graduate School. It reads,
in its entirety:

February 27, 2003
To: Dana Darmon
From: Marylou Balinskas, Director of Graduate Admissions
Re: U.S. Bachelor’s Equivalence--St. Regis University

The only bachelor’s degree from Liberia that we would not consider
equivalent is the Bachelor of Law. All other bachelor’s degrees are
equivalent and could be considered for admission to the Graduate school
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ITEM 5
Following an inquiry as to whether Ms. Balinskas had in fact written
this memo, and whether her office did, in fact, accept the degrees of
St. Regis University, Ms. Balinskas replied as follows:

Date: 2003-04-30 17:36:33 PST

I have gone back through my e-mail archives to try to find the original
question regarding St. Regis. All I was able to find was this e-mail
that was written after I faxed back the response to the question. As is
evident, the Subject of this e-mail was Bachelor's Equivalence in
general, and not St. Regis. I am truly sorry for this misunderstanding.

My information indicates that there are two national academic bodies in
Liberia authorized to accredit educational institutions: the Ministry
of Education and the Liberian National Commission for Unesco. There are
only 2 institutions recognized by these bodies as legitimate:
University of Liberia and Cuttington University College. I also have an
e-mail from an educational advising assistant at the U.S. Embassy in
Monrovia, Liberia that the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Univ. has
the approval of the Ministry of Education to operate in Liberia. Unless
there are other (more recent than my references) educational
institutions that have been LEGITIMATELY ACCREDITED we would only
consider applicants from the institutions I have listed above.

Marylou Balinskas, Director, Graduate Admissions
University of Connecticut, 438 Whitney Rd. Ext. Unit 1006
Storrs, CT 06269-1006, E-Mail: mary.ba...@uconn.edu
Phone: (860) 486-0988, Fax (860) 486-6739
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul Culin

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May 1, 2003, 9:32:44 PM5/1/03
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> My information indicates that there are two national academic bodies in
> Liberia authorized to accredit educational institutions: the Ministry
> of Education and the Liberian National Commission for Unesco. There are
> only 2 institutions recognized by these bodies as legitimate:
> University of Liberia and Cuttington University College. I also have an
> e-mail from an educational advising assistant at the U.S. Embassy in
> Monrovia, Liberia that the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Univ. has
> the approval of the Ministry of Education to operate in Liberia. Unless
> there are other (more recent than my references) educational
> institutions that have been LEGITIMATELY ACCREDITED we would only
> consider applicants from the institutions I have listed above.
>
> Marylou Balinskas, Director, Graduate Admissions
> University of Connecticut, 438 Whitney Rd. Ext. Unit 1006
> Storrs, CT 06269-1006, E-Mail: mary.ba...@uconn.edu
> Phone: (860) 486-0988, Fax (860) 486-6739
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dr. Bear, please clarify something for me. Ms. Balinskas did not
state how recent or what the direct source of her information is. Can
we assume that if her information is not current, and the Liberian MOE
provides her with proof of accreditation for SRU, that UCONN would
accept the degree?

I also have a letter in my possession from the Liberian Embassy in
Washington, DC, that states that SRU is accredited by the Liberian MOE
and that their accreditation is on the same standards as the
Universities that Ms. Balinskas references.

You should already have a copy of that letter. I know that one was
mailed to you. Have you received it? If so, would you comment on it
please?

I appreciate you bringing this to my attention. I will see to it that
UCONN receives a letter from the Liberian Government attesting to
SRU's accreditation. By her own admission, she will then accept SRU's
degrees.
You have done SRU a great service by pointing this out. Thank you.

John Bear

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May 1, 2003, 10:02:44 PM5/1/03
to Paul Culin
You/Blackwell/whomever said you had proof that UConn accepts Saint Regis degrees.

The Director of Graduate Admissions wrote me, this very morning, that they don't.

That's all I need to know for now. I'm sure if the situation changes, UConn will let
me know.

Oh, and people using Saint Regis degrees in Oregon and a bunch of other states are
(according to the official Oregon website) committing criminal offenses, subjecting
them to fine and imprisonment.

I trust you'll be taking care of that one, as well.

Keep me posted.

Paul Culin

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May 2, 2003, 1:11:55 AM5/2/03
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John Bear <jo...@ursa.net> wrote in message news:<3EB1D1C4...@ursa.net>...

Ditto for the many persons who hold the degrees YOU issued at Columbia
Pacific, Fairfax and Greenwhich. Correct? The (or some) of the
schools you were associated with/started/President of, are listed
there as well. Are they not? Does that mean that people who earned
one of YOUR unaccredited degrees, can go to jail? How does that make
you feel? How do you think they feel seeing the pot calling the
kettle black? Tell us, what would you say to them?

I didn't realize that until you suggested I visit the Oregon site.
Again, you do SRU a service. Nice to see that SRU was listed with
institutions that have your fingerprints on them.

One more thing, Sir. Have you, or have you not received a letter from
the Liberian Government attesting to SRU's accreditation? You skipped
over that in your response.

Pnwman

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May 2, 2003, 9:42:24 AM5/2/03
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pcu...@yahoo.com (Paul Culin) wrote in message news:

>
> Ditto for the many persons who hold the degrees YOU issued at Columbia
> Pacific, Fairfax and Greenwhich. Correct? The (or some) of the
> schools you were associated with/started/President of, are listed
> there as well. Are they not? Does that mean that people who earned
> one of YOUR unaccredited degrees, can go to jail? How does that make
> you feel? How do you think they feel seeing the pot calling the
> kettle black? Tell us, what would you say to them?
>
> I didn't realize that until you suggested I visit the Oregon site.
> Again, you do SRU a service. Nice to see that SRU was listed with
> institutions that have your fingerprints on them.
>
> One more thing, Sir. Have you, or have you not received a letter from
> the Liberian Government attesting to SRU's accreditation? You skipped
> over that in your response.


Give it up Paul. It is clear "St Regis" is both a scam and a degree
mill. No legitimate University is going to accept its "degrees".
Better get a $995 Doctorate somewhere else.

Paul Culin

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May 2, 2003, 1:16:32 PM5/2/03
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Thank you for joining the discussion. I am enjoying a free exchange
of ideas with someone considered to be an authority on the subject. I
am simply looking to be educated by the good doctor. I am an SRU
graduate. My degree is frequently disparaged in this type of forum.
I simply want someone to present me with facts so that I can make an
informed decision on my own, based upon those facts.

Calling SRU a "diploma mill" or a "scam" is an opinion. I simply wish
to learn what facts those opinions are predicated upon.

Is your, or the good doctor's posture so weak that it will not stand
up to some simple requests for facts?

To my knowledge, SRU is fully accredited by the Liberian MOE. I
believe that to be fact. I have a letter from the Ambassador of
Liberia attesting to same. If someone wishes to refute the
Ambassador's assertion with contrary fact, I simply wish to see it.
I'm not interested in opinions concerning this matter. If my degree
is, indeed bogus. I need to know.

Please believe me when I say that I do value your opinion. However,
please validate it. If I am proven wrong, I will admit it.

So let's put this on the table. I have the letter I mentioned. Is
the Liberian Ambassador in Washington, DC incorrect?

EduTEN

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May 2, 2003, 3:47:59 PM5/2/03
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Liberian accreditation is for sale to anyone who can pay 50k USD no questions
ask.

They market they accreditation to schools that need recognition badly.
Most of the schools are on some remote islands because they don't meet state
approved
standards in USA.

Imagine what profits your school can make if they had government accreditation?
Just pay us 50k USD and you are accredited.

I was qualified for B. Sc, MSc and Ph.D.
by sending them a resume that is total BS.
And over night I'm qualified for all this degrees and letters of
recommendations.

I personally for portfolio and experimental degrees, I think what people do
during their caress should be recognized and have professional degree
equivalent.

SRU needs to hire background check firm and really check each application.

They need to interview applicants and establish clear and acceptable
guidelines.

If I can get Ph.D. that quick something is really wrong.
Anyone in this group can makeup any resume and get what they want.

The accreditation such as R.A or N.A in US is Quality Assurance that the school

is following specific guidelines outlined by accrediting board.


John Bear

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May 2, 2003, 10:09:25 PM5/2/03
to Paul Culin

Paul Culin wrote:

>
> Ditto for the many persons who hold the degrees YOU issued at Columbia
> Pacific, Fairfax and Greenwhich. Correct?

The huge difference is that Oregon has a straightforward procedure for applying for state
approval, thus removal from the list. I can assure you that if I were involved with any
school on their list, I would be waiting on line at 9 am tomorrow morning to apply to be
removed. And based on the unaccredited schools that HAVE been removed, following their
application (SCUPS is the most recent), I am supremely confident that they would have
been removed.

Can SRU make that statement?

John Bear
Involved with Columbia Pacific 1978-83
Involved with Fairfax for two months in 1986
Involved with Greenwich (not Greenwhich) in 1990-1991
Involved with the Edinburgh Business School 1991-1998
Involved with my next project, which will be with a regionally accredited university,
announcement to be made this summer.

Paul Culin

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May 3, 2003, 10:18:42 AM5/3/03
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The good Doctor makes a valid point, indeed. Dr. Bear, I would assume
that you stand behind the integrity of the degrees issued during your
tenure at those former schools. (As well you should.) Have you been
in contact with the State of Oregon, requesting that the degrees
issued during your tenure be considered? If yes, what transpired? If
no, why not?

Thank you again for taking time from your busy schedule to communicate
with me.

John Bear

unread,
May 3, 2003, 12:04:02 PM5/3/03
to Paul Culin

Paul Culin wrote:

> The good Doctor makes a valid point, indeed. Dr. Bear, I would assume
> that you stand behind the integrity of the degrees issued during your
> tenure at those former schools. (As well you should.)

I do.

> Have you been
> in contact with the State of Oregon, requesting that the degrees
> issued during your tenure be considered? If yes, what transpired? If
> no, why not?

Mr. Culin might wish to worry more about his own alma mater, Saint Regis,
being on the list, rather than worrying about schools where I had
involvements 21, 17, and 12 years ago. What can his motive be? To
embarrass me before the nine people who read this news forum? Oh dear.

That said, it is an interesting notion he brings up. Even if Oregon would
consider such a thing (and I shall ask Alan Contreras, head of their
Office of Degree Acceptance), a thorny issue would be the dates, given
that I truly have no reason to doubt the integrity of work done after my
tenure. Unlike Saint Regis, the students at Columbia Pacific, Fairfax,
and Greenwich worked over significant periods of time under the direction
of real faculty*, nearly all of them with doctorates from regionally
accredited schools. So it would be quite unfair to many alumni, I
suggest, for Oregon to say, "A degree earned from Greenwich on June 15,
1991 is legal in Oregon, but one earned on June 16, 1991 is illegal.

Far more appropriate, as I think on it, would be for these schools to
apply now to be removed from the Oregon list. As I've pointed out, I have
been totally disinvolved from all three for a long time, so clearly it is
nothing I can do myself. But I am in touch with the people who ran or run
them, and I shall make inquiries.
________
* I am grateful to Mark Israel for pointing out that in addition to all
its other, um, features, that Saint Regis sold, or sells, Professorships.
That rumbling sound you hear is the entire academic world rolling on the
floor laughing.

gar...@yahoo.com

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May 4, 2003, 2:05:53 PM5/4/03
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>
>Oh, and people using Saint Regis degrees in Oregon and a bunch of other states are
>(according to the official Oregon website) committing criminal offenses, subjecting
>them to fine and imprisonment.


Are there any specific federal laws which address using degrees
obtained from diploma mills? Any state laws? Seems like there is a
fair bit degree fraud going on, and it also seems that educational
institutions are the only ones caring about valid credentials when
hiring administrative staff and academic staff. What about
governmental and non-profit entities? Does corporate America really
care about phony diplomas? What kind of real trouble, other than bad
press, and perhaps personal disgrace, really happens if someone were
to use the "PhD" designation if they received their "degree" from
Saint Regis or Palmer Green, for example?

Does anyone know if the FTC and/or Postal Service really intends to
look into the report recently forwarded to them by the OIG and do
something proactive, or is the report going to end up in the round
file?

Rich Douglas

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May 5, 2003, 6:33:59 AM5/5/03
to

<gar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0labv4m3cl7mnnjs...@4ax.com...

>
> >
> >Oh, and people using Saint Regis degrees in Oregon and a bunch of other
states are
> >(according to the official Oregon website) committing criminal offenses,
subjecting
> >them to fine and imprisonment.
>
>
> Are there any specific federal laws which address using degrees
> obtained from diploma mills? Any state laws?

Yes. Participants in such scams can be included in federal charges (usually
related to mail and wire fraud), but those are normally used against the
diploma mill operators.

Many states have laws regarding the use of fake credentials. Some are
explicit, like Oregon. Others are implicit, related to fraud.

And even if claiming a degree from a diploma mill isn't specifically illegal
where you live, that doesn't make it a good idea.

Seems like there is a
> fair bit degree fraud going on, and it also seems that educational
> institutions are the only ones caring about valid credentials when
> hiring administrative staff and academic staff. What about
> governmental and non-profit entities? Does corporate America really
> care about phony diplomas?

According to research I've receently completed, yes. Employers find such
degrees unacceptable relative to degrees from schools with recognized
accreditation (or foreign equivalent). And when employers get a little
information about this subject, their views on the unacceptability of such
degrees becomes even more concrete.

Additionally, one only has to look at the many cases where holders of fake
or non-existent degrees have had public humiliation heaped upon them. The
news has been filled with such cases over the past few years.

What kind of real trouble, other than bad
> press, and perhaps personal disgrace, really happens if someone were
> to use the "PhD" designation if they received their "degree" from
> Saint Regis or Palmer Green, for example?

One can be fired, sued, or even prosecuted.


>
> Does anyone know if the FTC and/or Postal Service really intends to
> look into the report recently forwarded to them by the OIG and do
> something proactive, or is the report going to end up in the round
> file?

The interest on the part of postal or other federal authorities in degree
mills has wavered over the years. But buying a fake degree and claiming it
as real remains a dicey practice. Oh, and it is a slimy thing to do.
"Schools" like St. Regis and its fake musical partner, Copeland, sell
degrees. They have no facilities, faculties, coursework, curricula, or
processes to evaluate learning of any kind. You send them your money, tell
them the degree(s) you want, then receive it (or them). All the waffling
over Liberian accreditation is dumb. The only way such a degree would be
recognized as comparable to one from a properly accredited school is by
mistake.

I don't know how the battle between Mr. Culin and others got started. But I
see that Mr. Culin publicly claims his master's from St. Regis, and that his
name is on the Copeland website. While it is certainly his prerogative to
defend his credential, he shouldn't complain about privacy. After all, he
put it out there for others to see (and admire?).

Rich Douglas


John Bear

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May 5, 2003, 11:30:06 AM5/5/03
to gar...@yahoo.com

gar...@yahoo.com wrote:

> Are there any specific federal laws which address using degrees
> obtained from diploma mills?

There are laws that relate to fraud of all kinds, including obtaining money under false
and fraudulent pretences. The FBI dealt with about 60 diploma mills during their
DipScam era (1980-1990), often using Title 18, US Code, Sections 1341-1343. And there's
mail fraud, wire fraud, credit card fraud, and, commonly tax fraud.

> Any state laws? Seems like there is a
> fair bit degree fraud going on, and it also seems that educational
> institutions are the only ones caring about valid credentials when
> hiring administrative staff and academic staff. What about
> governmental and non-profit entities? Does corporate America really
> care about phony diplomas?

Increasingly, especially as it gets more and more publicity. That's what my press
clipping collection seems to show, and that is one of the messages from the doctoral
research just completed by a Union University student, who interviewed more than 300 HR
officers. As one very recent example, the Chief Financial Officer of the very large
Bausch & Lomb Corporation was discovered to have a fake degree. He forfeited the $1
million bonus he had recently been given (and B&L stock dropped something like 4% over
the next week). And around the same time, the CFO of the very large Veritas software
company was fired when his fake degree was discovered. These are not rare events.

> What kind of real trouble, other than bad
> press, and perhaps personal disgrace, really happens if someone were
> to use the "PhD" designation if they received their "degree" from
> Saint Regis or Palmer Green, for example?

Well how about prison (many cases known to me; most recently, the head of a major
television service with a fake degree. Indicted, arrested, and imprisoned for four
months. And deported. A Colorado state official, in the US with a green card, was
deported to his native country when his fake degree was discovered.

> Does anyone know if the FTC and/or Postal Service really intends to
> look into the report recently forwarded to them by the OIG and do
> something proactive, or is the report going to end up in the round
> file?

We can only hope, but I wouldn't hold my breath. One real problem is that so many of
the bad guys either operate entirely from another country, or have significant non-US
connections, making it much harder to do anything. The current worst offender by far is
based in Romania, owned by an American, selling the degrees of San Moritz, Harrington,
Palmers Green, and a dozen others. An estimate from the retired FBI agent who has been
looking into them in great depth is sales approaching $400 million. But they have
bought off everyone relevant in Romania; they get mail at various mail drops in
England; they print their diplomas in Israel; and they do their banking in Cyprus.
Who's going to stop them?


James Harris

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May 5, 2003, 11:47:19 AM5/5/03
to
>
> The interest on the part of postal or other federal authorities in degree
> mills has wavered over the years. But buying a fake degree and claiming it
> as real remains a dicey practice. Oh, and it is a slimy thing to do.
> "Schools" like St. Regis and its fake musical partner, Copeland, sell
> degrees. They have no facilities, faculties, coursework, curricula, or
> processes to evaluate learning of any kind. You send them your money, tell
> them the degree(s) you want, then receive it (or them). All the waffling
> over Liberian accreditation is dumb. The only way such a degree would be
> recognized as comparable to one from a properly accredited school is by
> mistake.
>
> I don't know how the battle between Mr. Culin and others got started. But I
> see that Mr. Culin publicly claims his master's from St. Regis, and that his
> name is on the Copeland website. While it is certainly his prerogative to
> defend his credential, he shouldn't complain about privacy. After all, he
> put it out there for others to see (and admire?).
>
> Rich Douglas

Rich,

It's really sad because I once thought you were a true expert on
education, and all you've been doing here is just "follow your leader"
like the others. This, and my posts to follow will present to you and
everybody else FACTS directly from the REAL sources. Facts that will
prove that the unsubstantiated, baseless crap you've been feeding
people here and at degreeinfo about St. Regis is just that, crap.

I'm a middle-aged American at present living and working in Europe. I
hold a B.A. in foreign languages and an M.A. in linguistics, both from
RA universities. I've been working for many years both in the field
of linguistics and its sister field, psycholinguistics. Over the
years , I've conducted a large number of research projects and
published a number of papers related to my discipline. Currently, I'm
half-way through a major study project which I'm conducting privately,
i.e., not under the auspices of an academic or other institution.

I am certain that I should be able to qualify for a Ph.D. in
psycholinguistics based on my past work experience and the completion
of my current study project, without the need of further instruction,
courses or a dissertation in addition to my study project. I applied
recently to several American RA schools offering online and/or
distance programs, but in vain. They all expected me to do a
considerable amount of unnecessary and boring (to me) work, demanding
exorbitant fees at the same time.

A local friend of mine - a St. Regis graduate and highly respected
professional - suggested St. Regis University. He also introduced me
to other St. Regis graduates, all highly educated individuals. They
all spoke highly of St. Regis and its flexible, but high quality
educational programs, suitable especially for people of my age and
professional experience. And, as I was told, St. Regis and its
programs/degrees were internationally recognized (the term
"accredited" is not used here).

I wasn't satisfied though, I wanted to verify all that information
through reliable (as I thought at the time) American sources. I went
to degreeinfo first and I did a search on St. Regis. I was really
shocked by what I found, to the point that I began to doubt my
European friend's integrity and ethos. As I was about to give up on
St. Regis in disgust, however, a St. Regis graduate started posting at
degreeinfo. His posts presented some interest, but I was not
convinced in the least. I thought to myself, whom is that guy trying
to fool, himself or other people?

Soon, however, I noticed that his posts started disappearing. Another
poster, who had become somewhat supportive of St. Regis, also
complained that his posts had disappeared. Anyway, I didn't pay much
attention to that, rather disturbing, fact at the time, until I came
across a new thread entitled "what a joke". I couldn't believe what I
was reading, this thread was dedicated exclusively to slandering and
badmouthing that poor fellow from St. Regis. No facts, no pro and con
arguments, just gutter language for its own sake, involving even the
poor guy's wife and children. And, no sign of intervention from the
moderators of the board, who are known to be closely associated with
Dr. John Bear.

The last straw was the dialog that followed on this board between Dr.
Bear and the St. Regis graduate, with occasional interventions by
others from both sides.
To all objective observers, this dialog was a disaster for Dr. Bear's
credibility. He presented no facts, no grounds on which even one of
his claims against St. Regis could be based, just unsubstantiated
hearsay, innuendoes, and at times, when he occasionally lost his cool,
clear signs of prejudice.

At this point, I began to really wonder about Dr. Bear and Co. Why
all this spite, why all these desperate (unsuccessful) efforts to
silence or ridicule the other person at any cost, without any solid
evidence and without, obviously, having conducted any serious research
on the subject?
Of course, Dr. Bear's lack of credibility in this affair does not
constitute proof that St. Regis has any real value as an educational
institution.

Therefore, I decided to conduct my own independent and careful
investigation on (1) the status of higher education in Liberia; (2)
the status, if any, of Saint Regis university with the Liberian
Ministry of Education; (3) the level of acceptance of St. Regis
degrees in the US and internationally.
The results of this thorough investigation will appear in my next
post.

James Harris

Mark Israel

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May 5, 2003, 12:46:11 PM5/5/03
to
In article <6eb21606.03050...@posting.google.com>, James Harris <jw...@pathfinder.gr> writes:

> this thread was dedicated exclusively to slandering and
> badmouthing that poor fellow from St. Regis.

"That poor fellow from St. Regis" told me that his salary for
his computing job is $120,000 a year. That must be in addition
to whatever he takes in as "the Director of the Copeland
Conservatory of Music" (a Saint Regis University affiliate).

His badmouthing of us includes "forum of fools", "degree
Gestapo", "Hitler Youth", and it goes on.

> all you've been doing here is just "follow your leader"
> like the others.

Ask Paul Culin if he thinks I'm playing "follow your leader".
He wrote to me: "As for Dr. Bear's comments. He made some less-
than-flattering comments about you and the e-mails you had sent him
in the past. Shall I post those on the web? You won't find it
amusing, but others surely will."

Paul Culin

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May 5, 2003, 5:52:25 PM5/5/03
to
You know Mark, we're grown men, but acting like children. I have
better things to do and I assume that you do as well. I've been told
that we *both* look like a couple of high school kids bickering. This
is clearly going nowhere, so goodbye.

May God Bless you and your family.

James Harris

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May 5, 2003, 5:55:08 PM5/5/03
to
> Who's going to stop them?

Someone must stop them so that we, the public, can get rid of them and
also those people who have been thriving on this subject for years on
end, regurgitating on the same things over and over again! Taking
care to remind us at every opportunity their heroic deeds during the
famous dipscam. Taking care not to mention that they really
contributed next to nothing to that operation. According to the FBI
agent in charge, they just offered information the FBI already knew!

James Harris

James Harris

unread,
May 5, 2003, 6:20:15 PM5/5/03
to
> Who's going to stop them?

What diploma mills do is unethical and immoral. They deceive people
and take their money.

What about authors though who write books on education, dealing mainly
with the evaluation of schools, who "forget" to disclose to their
readers that the school they present as their top choice - top faculty
with very impressive credentials, high quality, innovative programs,
etc., etc. - is in fact a school they own?

Even if that school is in fact the best, isn't this author unethical
and immoral? Isn't this author actually deceiving his readers who
believe he is an expert, independent and impartial evaluator of
schools? Doesn't he take their money on false pretenses?

Who's going to stop such authors from preying on innocent people (to a
large extent foreigners).

James Harris

Rich Douglas

unread,
May 5, 2003, 6:32:55 PM5/5/03
to

"James Harris" <jw...@pathfinder.gr> wrote in message
news:6eb21606.03050...@posting.google.com...

> >
> > > It's really sad because I once thought you were a true expert on
> education, and all you've been doing here is just "follow your leader"
> like the others. This, and my posts to follow will present to you and
> everybody else FACTS directly from the REAL sources. Facts that will
> prove that the unsubstantiated, baseless crap you've been feeding
> people here and at degreeinfo about St. Regis is just that, crap.

I'm following no one's "leader." After 24 years in this field and writing a
dissertation on this topic, I think I might know a few things on my own,
thanks.


>
> I'm a middle-aged American at present living and working in Europe. I
> hold a B.A. in foreign languages and an M.A. in linguistics, both from
> RA universities. I've been working for many years both in the field
> of linguistics and its sister field, psycholinguistics. Over the
> years , I've conducted a large number of research projects and
> published a number of papers related to my discipline. Currently, I'm
> half-way through a major study project which I'm conducting privately,
> i.e., not under the auspices of an academic or other institution.
>
> I am certain that I should be able to qualify for a Ph.D. in
> psycholinguistics based on my past work experience and the completion
> of my current study project, without the need of further instruction,
> courses or a dissertation in addition to my study project. I applied
> recently to several American RA schools offering online and/or
> distance programs, but in vain. They all expected me to do a
> considerable amount of unnecessary and boring (to me) work, demanding
> exorbitant fees at the same time.

One does not "qualify" for a Ph.D. One EARNS a Ph.D. That you would be put
off by required work is extremely telling.


>
> A local friend of mine - a St. Regis graduate and highly respected
> professional - suggested St. Regis University. He also introduced me
> to other St. Regis graduates, all highly educated individuals. They
> all spoke highly of St. Regis and its flexible, but high quality
> educational programs, suitable especially for people of my age and
> professional experience. And, as I was told, St. Regis and its
> programs/degrees were internationally recognized (the term
> "accredited" is not used here).

Unlike others, including myself, you offer no specifics. Unidentified
friends and colleagues simply won't cut it.

St. Regis' degrees are most certainly NOT "internationally recognized." No
amount of rhetoric changes that fact. You can't name even one properly
recognized universities that accept St. Regis' credits and/or degrees. The
"school" has no facilities, no faculties, no curricula, no coursework, no
academic processes at all.


>
> I wasn't satisfied though, I wanted to verify all that information
> through reliable (as I thought at the time) American sources. I went
> to degreeinfo first and I did a search on St. Regis. I was really
> shocked by what I found, to the point that I began to doubt my
> European friend's integrity and ethos. As I was about to give up on
> St. Regis in disgust, however, a St. Regis graduate started posting at
> degreeinfo. His posts presented some interest, but I was not
> convinced in the least. I thought to myself, whom is that guy trying
> to fool, himself or other people?

You should not have to rely on any forum. Check with legitimately
accredited (or foreign equivalent) schools. They'll tell you all you need
to know.


>
> Soon, however, I noticed that his posts started disappearing. Another
> poster, who had become somewhat supportive of St. Regis, also
> complained that his posts had disappeared. Anyway, I didn't pay much
> attention to that, rather disturbing, fact at the time, until I came
> across a new thread entitled "what a joke". I couldn't believe what I
> was reading, this thread was dedicated exclusively to slandering and
> badmouthing that poor fellow from St. Regis. No facts, no pro and con
> arguments, just gutter language for its own sake, involving even the
> poor guy's wife and children. And, no sign of intervention from the
> moderators of the board, who are known to be closely associated with
> Dr. John Bear.

You try to make it sound like knowing John Bear is some form of indictment.
The only people who have a problem with him are those who promote degree
mills. That's been a constant for more than two decades. You're just the
latest in a long line.

There is also no reason to believe anyone's posts on Degreeinfo.com have
"disappeared." As for the person in question, he advertised his degree (and
his association with Copeland). I wasn't party to the original discussion,
but I found both references in a matter of minutes. If he'd wanted his St.
Regis degree to remain a secret (a sentiment I certainly support), he
shouldn't have promoted it on his own website--or Copeland's.


>
> The last straw was the dialog that followed on this board between Dr.
> Bear and the St. Regis graduate, with occasional interventions by
> others from both sides.
> To all objective observers, this dialog was a disaster for Dr. Bear's
> credibility. He presented no facts, no grounds on which even one of
> his claims against St. Regis could be based, just unsubstantiated
> hearsay, innuendoes, and at times, when he occasionally lost his cool,
> clear signs of prejudice.

This is rhetoric. From what I read, it is clear that the two schools the
person in question offered up as accepting St Regis' degrees clearly do not.
And what does any of this have to do with the central issue? St. Regis
sells degrees without any academic process.


>
> At this point, I began to really wonder about Dr. Bear and Co. Why
> all this spite, why all these desperate (unsuccessful) efforts to
> silence or ridicule the other person at any cost, without any solid
> evidence and without, obviously, having conducted any serious research
> on the subject?
> Of course, Dr. Bear's lack of credibility in this affair does not
> constitute proof that St. Regis has any real value as an educational
> institution.

You still haven't offered up anything except a dislike for John's comments.
Okay, you don't like them. But that doesn't make them any less true.


>
> Therefore, I decided to conduct my own independent and careful
> investigation on (1) the status of higher education in Liberia; (2)
> the status, if any, of Saint Regis university with the Liberian
> Ministry of Education; (3) the level of acceptance of St. Regis
> degrees in the US and internationally.
> The results of this thorough investigation will appear in my next
> post.
>
> James Harris

I can't wait.

Rich Douglas


Rich Douglas

unread,
May 5, 2003, 6:40:22 PM5/5/03
to
Do you have an example of this? Is there an author who has published a
guide on nontraditional higher education listing schools he operates that do
not reveal that information? Would you please cite a specific example
(title, author, edition, year published)?

I know you're not talking about John Bear. I have copies of every edition
since 1980. It must be someone else. Again, please be specific.

Rich Douglas

"James Harris" <jw...@pathfinder.gr> wrote in message
news:6eb21606.03050...@posting.google.com...

John Bear

unread,
May 5, 2003, 7:33:15 PM5/5/03
to James Harris
You're absolutely right, Mr. Harris.

Ronald Pellar, indicted last week for his notorious diploma mill,
Columbia State University, self-published a book under an assumed name
(Herald Crenshaw), which purported to be an impartial school guide, but
chose Columbia State as the best school in the country, without revealing
the connection.

And Edward Reddeck, imprisoned three times for his phony schools did
exactly the same thing, with two self-published books.

John Bear
Co-author, Bears' Guide to Earning Degrees
by Distance Learning

Some 1

unread,
May 5, 2003, 8:24:02 PM5/5/03
to
> This, and my posts to follow will present
> to you and everybody else FACTS
> directly from the REAL sources. Facts
> that will prove that the unsubstantiated,
> baseless crap you've been feeding
> people here and at degreeinfo about St.
> Regis is just that, crap.

If you can provide an explanation for St. Regis' choice of
accreditation, describe what that accreditation process was and give a
credible account of St. Regis' other practices, and if you can provide
some independent corroborating evidence of St Regis' (and its many
affiliates') academics, then I applaud you and would very much like to
see it.

Right now, St. Regis is just thrashing around like a hooked fish.

> Therefore, I decided to conduct my own
> independent and careful investigation on
> (1) the status of higher education in
> Liberia; (2) the status, if any, of Saint
> Regis university with the Liberian
> Ministry of Education; (3) the level of
> acceptance of St. Regis degrees in the
> US and internationally.

I'd love to see what you have. Please post it.

But try to cut back on the ad-hominem attacks. None of that has anything
to do with the question of whether or not St. Regis is a degree mill.



Some 1

unread,
May 5, 2003, 8:36:10 PM5/5/03
to
I notice that James Harris has made two rather ad-hominem posts, but
still hasn't presented the fact-based defense of St. Regis that he
promised.

Please present it.


Pnwman

unread,
May 6, 2003, 12:29:27 AM5/6/03
to
jw...@pathfinder.gr (James Harris) wrote in message news:<6eb21606.03050...@posting.google.com>...

Hmmmm... If I was a degree mill operator I think I would write many
posts like James has. A St Regis degree recognized by ANYONE
legitimate? Yeah right! Lol!

James Harris

unread,
May 6, 2003, 3:50:06 AM5/6/03
to
user...@webtv.net (Some 1) wrote in message news:<6193-3EB...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net>...

You're right Mr ?. I'm not basically a "creative" person, i.e., I
don't have the skills nor the inclination to create "facts" based on
"he said, she said, they said, it looks like, so it must be a fact",
but a person who bases his conclusions only on hard facts and concrete
evidence which has to be checked and double-checked. Therefore, I, we
need to be a little patient until data I have already collected is
verified and documented.

I felt the need to post my two previous messages as I was just
informed yesterday by an American diplomat, who has served for many
years on missions in several foreign countries, that they had at one
stage a large number of complaints from citizens of certain countries
about a specific American author.

It appears this author published one or more books (not certain) about
university studies in the US intended specifically for residents of
other countries. It seems that some of the universities recommended
by this author were either a scam from the beginning, or they later
lost whatever recognition they had. In one instance, at least, this
author was a part owner and one of the founders of the university he
presented as the best in its category.

The bottom line is that, evidently, there are currently a few thousand
people in a number of countries who hold useless American degrees, as
that particular school was later proven to be a degree mill. My
diplomat friend believes that there are at least two more universities
which, although they were partly owned by this author, were highly
recommended in his publications. These two schools were also proven
to be degree mills later!

I won't use names and that's my prerogative. The reason, I don't
really want to hurt the person, who may have mended his ways since
then, just to remind him that he should conduct a proper investigation
before resorting to "name-calling" others.

James Harris

Some 1

unread,
May 6, 2003, 11:36:56 AM5/6/03
to
> Therefore, I, we need
> to be a little patient until data I have
> already collected is verified and
> documented.

Then it's reasonable and prudent that we retain our skeptical attitude
towards St. Regis until the day that somebody finally sees fit to
provide a credible justification of what it's doing, isn't it?

The rest of the stuff that you are posting is irrelevant. It has
absolutely no bearing on the question of whether or not St. Regis and
its weird assortment of NBOE- "accredited" franchisees are in fact
degree mills.

The only way that anyone can rebut the reasonable assumption that they
are and demonstrate that St. Regis is a real university and that what it
is doing is educationally sound, is by actually making that case and by
demonstrating those things.

Diversions and ad-hominem red herrings won't help St. Regis' cause.



John Bear

unread,
May 6, 2003, 1:18:58 PM5/6/03
to James Harris

James Harris wrote:

> You're right Mr ?. I'm not basically a "creative" person, i.e., I
> don't have the skills nor the inclination to create "facts" based on
> "he said, she said, they said, it looks like, so it must be a fact",
> but a person who bases his conclusions only on hard facts and concrete
> evidence which has to be checked and double-checked. Therefore, I, we
> need to be a little patient until data I have already collected is
> verified and documented.
>
> I felt the need to post my two previous messages as I was just
> informed yesterday by an American diplomat, who has served for many
> years on missions in several foreign countries, that they had at one
> stage a large number of complaints from citizens of certain countries
> about a specific American author.
>
> It appears this author published one or more books (not certain) about
> university studies in the US intended specifically for residents of
> other countries.

In 1982 (that's 21 years ago, folks), there was a short-lived version of Bears' Guide called "How to Earn an
American University Degree Without Ever Going to America."

It was similar in format to the present Bears' Guide books: 95% of the space devoted to schools with recognized
accreditation, and about 5% devoted to unaccredited schools that were operating with proper licensing. One of
those, which occupied 1/450th of the space in the book, or less than 1/4 of 1%, was Columbia Pacific University,
then an approved California university (graduates qualified to take the state licensing exams in psychology, for
instance), where I had consulted with the two owners (one a Harvard MD psychiatrist, the other the former president
of two regionally accredited universities) in exchange for a very small percentage of the stock, which I later sold
back to them.

> It seems that some of the universities recommended
> by this author were either a scam from the beginning, or they later
> lost whatever recognition they had.

Columbia Pacific's state license was not renewed in 1996, 14 years after this book was published.

> In one instance, at least, this
> author was a part owner and one of the founders of the university he
> presented as the best in its category.
>
> The bottom line is that, evidently, there are currently a few thousand
> people in a number of countries who hold useless American degrees,

Do you have any evidence of this? Your "evidently" seems quite inconceivable to me. A very small number of books
were sold (which is why it was short-lived).

> as
> that particular school was later proven to be a degree mill.

By whom? This is a very serious allegation you are making.

> My
> diplomat friend believes that there are at least two more universities
> which, although they were partly owned by this author, were highly
> recommended in his publications.

For one thing, my two subsequent involvements, well documented in my books, came long after the publication of the
book your diplomat friend is referring to, so they could not possibly be in there. For another, those two brief
involvements (one was two months, the other 16 months) were carefully identified as unaccredited, and never "highly
recommended."

> These two schools were also proven
> to be degree mills later!

By whom? Two more very serious allegations, Mr. Harris.

> I won't use names and that's my prerogative. The reason, I don't
> really want to hurt the person, who may have mended his ways since
> then, just to remind him that he should conduct a proper investigation
> before resorting to "name-calling" others.

No, I haven't mended a single way, Mr. Harris. Just as feisty, and just as accurate as ever. (Incidentally, my
$385-an-hour intellectual property lawyer assures me that omitting names when the names are uniquely matched to the
statements presented is no defense in a libel case.)

I am not threatening any legal action. No interest in that. But I am passing your public statements on to Drs. Les
Carr and Richard Crews of Columbia Pacific, Dr. Alan Jones of Fairfax, and Dr. John Walsh of Greenwich, just in
case they may be interested.

John Bear, Ph.D. (Michigan State University) who can confidently state
that I've only made one serious error in mis-classifying a school in
the 29 y ears I've been doing editions of this book. That was an occasion,
in 1985, when I identified Andrew Jackson University of Louisiana as a
degree mill. I had confused them with a different and phony Andrew Jackson University.
I apologized publicly, the owner of the legitimate AJU accepted, and that was that.

MarkIsrael

unread,
May 6, 2003, 3:39:14 PM5/6/03
to
In article <6eb21606.03050...@posting.google.com>, James Harris
<jw...@pathfinder.gr> wrote:

> It seems that some of the universities recommended by this author
> were either a scam from the beginning, or they later lost

> whatever recognition they had. [...]


> The bottom line is that, evidently, there are currently a few
> thousand people in a number of countries who hold useless American
> degrees, as that particular school was later proven to be a degree
> mill.

And after the next coup d'état in Liberia, Saint Regis University
will likely "lose whatever recoginition it has". Does that worry you?

James Harris

unread,
May 7, 2003, 1:32:52 AM5/7/03
to
user...@webtv.net (Some 1) wrote in message news:<27813-3EB...@storefull-2296.public.lawson.webtv.net>...

> > Therefore, I, we need
> > to be a little patient until data I have
> > already collected is verified and
> > documented.
>
> Then it's reasonable and prudent that we retain our skeptical attitude
> towards St. Regis until the day that somebody finally sees fit to
> provide a credible justification of what it's doing, isn't it?
>
> The only way that anyone can rebut the reasonable assumption that they
> are and demonstrate that St. Regis is a real university and that what it
> is doing is educationally sound, is by actually making that case and by
> demonstrating those things.

You're absolutely correct Mr. ?. This is the stance of a fair-minded
and objective scholar we haven't seen much of, unfortunately, in these
forums!

James Harris
>

James Harris

unread,
May 7, 2003, 1:39:31 AM5/7/03
to
user...@webtv.net (Some 1) wrote in message news:<27813-3EB...@storefull-2296.public.lawson.webtv.net>...

> >
> Diversions and ad-hominem red herrings won't help St. Regis' cause.

Mr. ?

As I explained, those posts were incidental, nothing to do with the
St. Regis issue. And, you are correct again.

James Harris

James Harris

unread,
May 7, 2003, 2:30:47 AM5/7/03
to
John Bear <jo...@ursa.net> wrote in message news:<3EB7EE81...@ursa.net>...

>
>
> No, I haven't mended a single way, Mr. Harris. Just as feisty, and just as accurate as ever. (Incidentally, my
> $385-an-hour intellectual property lawyer assures me that omitting names when the names are uniquely matched to the
> statements presented is no defense in a libel case.)
>
> I am not threatening any legal action. No interest in that. But I am passing your public statements on to Drs. Les
> Carr and Richard Crews of Columbia Pacific, Dr. Alan Jones of Fairfax, and Dr. John Walsh of Greenwich, just in
> case they may be interested.
>
Dr. Bear,

With all due respect, I'm really perplexed by your long and passionate
reply to my posts! I don't quite understand how my posts made you
think of yourself and your past history. Although the style of your
writing bears an upper thin layer which I would characterize as mildly
"provocative", deeper layers reveal a deeply felt need to apologize.
Almost like an unconscious reflex action.
I'm sorry that my posts,inadvertedly, caused you so much undue
distress.

What makes you so certain that in a Court of Law statements such as
the ones in my posts, would be automatically matched with you and your
history? Does that mean you actually believe that in the minds of a
majority of people, statements of that nature are associated
automatically with you and nobody else? If that's the case, you must
be a person tormented inside, always in need to justify himself!
Relax Dr. Bear, things may not be as bad as that!

James Harris

James Harris

unread,
May 7, 2003, 4:55:09 AM5/7/03
to
marki...@aol.com (MarkIsrael) wrote in message news:<20030506153914...@mb-m07.aol.com>...

> >
> And after the next coup d'état in Liberia, Saint Regis University
> will likely "lose whatever recoginition it has". Does that worry you?

Mr. MarkIsrael,

You disappoint me! Please, don't spoil the rather good impression I
have of very few, including you, members of degreeinfo.
Read your statement again please, very carefully. Does that look like
a statement coming from a Harvard graduate? (You are a Harvard
graduate, aren't you?) What exactly did you use to reach that
conclusion, a crystal ball? Perhaps one of those pre-programmed ones
used ad nauseam by most members of degreeinfo?

At university, irrespective of the particular discipline, our minds
are trained to be impartial, neutral, objective and skeptical. We are
taught that all a priori statements must be expressed in the form of a
hypothesis. We never make definite statements unless we can back them
up with solid facts, and, even then, unless we are in a position to
present 100% evidence in support of our statement - which is
impossible - we should always begin with "It appears that ..." or
something similar. Please, don't let the rest of the crowd at that
forum drag you down to their level!

Apropos, it is obvious that my expression &#8220;follow your
leader&#8221;, in my first post, does not refer to you.

James Harris

James Harris

unread,
May 7, 2003, 5:11:23 AM5/7/03
to
pnw...@aol.com (Pnwman) wrote in message >
> Hmmmm... If I was a degree mill operator I think I would write many
> posts like James has. A St Regis degree recognized by ANYONE
> legitimate? Yeah right! Lol!

Pnwman,

Wow! what a discovery!!! It must have required a lot of heavy thinking
on your part my friend. You've seen through my posts. Right through
to the core of my inner thoughts. Clever boy, how could have I ever
thought I could hide from you?

Yours,

James

Dennis Ruhl

unread,
May 5, 2003, 9:35:39 PM5/5/03
to

James Harris wrote:
> *

> At this point, I began to really wonder about Dr. Bear and Co. Why
> all this spite, why all these desperate (unsuccessful) efforts to
> silence or ridicule the other person at any cost, without any solid
> evidence and without, obviously, having conducted any serious
> research
> on the subject?
> Of course, Dr. Bear's lack of credibility in this affair does not
> constitute proof that St. Regis has any real value as an educational
> institution.
>
> James Harris *

John has probably seen 100 schools more credible than St. Regis prove
themselves to be degree mills.

Where are the usual bunch that whine that Dr. Bear has too many good
things to say about poor quality schools? After all he was involved
with Greenwich, Columbia Pacific etc.

Reading his books, I have come to the conclusion that he really loves
innovation in education. I don't think he extends that fondness to
programs that require you to do little or nothing to get a degree.

I don't think we have to worry about Bear's credibility.

---
View this thread: http://www.online-college.info/article491.html
Dennis Ruhl------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Ruhl's Profile: http://www.online-college.info/forum/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=70

James Harris

unread,
May 7, 2003, 12:48:11 PM5/7/03
to
John Bear <jo...@ursa.net> wrote in message news:<3EB7EE81...@ursa.net>...

>

> I am not threatening any legal action. No interest in that. But I am passing your public statements on to Drs. Les
> Carr and Richard Crews of Columbia Pacific, Dr. Alan Jones of Fairfax, and Dr. John Walsh of Greenwich, just in
> case they may be interested.
>

Dr. Bear,

You named the three universities, I didn't! Now, if they suffer from
such publicity, it will be on your conscience not mine.

Nevertheless, just out of curiosity I ran a google search on the three
universities. Well, to be fair, it appears they are fine schools.
CPU and Greenwich have been probably the victims of political
rivalries and antagonism. CPU has also been the victim of a vicious
mud-slinging campaign both on the internet and the print media.
Fairfax, on the other hand, presents a long list of faculty with very
impressive credentials indeed.

I wonder though why these schools have been included, along with St.
Regis, on the famous Oregon list of degree mills, as well as the list
of degree mills of that Australian newspaper.

As you state on another thread Dr. Bear, the main reason you insist
that St. Regis must be a mill is that its name appears on the Oregon
list. And, you wouldn't change your mind untill it is removed from
that list. Therefore, it seems you believe that list to be a reliable
source of information with regards to degree mills. Does that apply
to the three universities named above? I'm confused again!

But enough of that. I'll be in Paris tomorrow - I move between
Brussels, Paris, Rome, and Athens quite frequently - and I've planned
a visit to the UNESCO headquarters, particularly the divisions of
National Commissions and International Association of Universities
(IAU). I'll try also to visit the Liberian Delegation to UNESCO, if
there is one.

More news shortly.

James Harris

Mark Israel

unread,
May 7, 2003, 6:44:24 PM5/7/03
to
In article <6eb21606.03050...@posting.google.com>, James Harris <jw...@pathfinder.gr> wrote:

> Well, to be fair, it appears they are fine schools. [...]
> Fairfax [...] presents a long list of faculty with very
> impressive credentials indeed.

"To be fair", are you going to retract your earlier words "proven
to be degree mills"?

> I wonder though why these schools have been included, along with St.
> Regis, on the famous Oregon list of degree mills,

It's not a "list of degree mills"! It's a list of "some of the
institutions whose degrees cannot legally be used in Oregon because
the institutions are not accredited by an accrediting agency
recognized by the U.S. Department of Education or approved by ODA.
[...] Some of the institutions listed below are diploma mills [...]."
http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccredited.html

Note that second "some". I presume if Bob Jones University had
not applied for ODA (Oregon Office of Degree Authorization) approval,
it would be on the bottom list rather than the top.

As Dr Bear tried to convey to you (but you had trouble grasping),
it is libelous to call something a diploma mill unless you have proof.
The Oregon Website avoids that.

> As you state on another thread Dr. Bear, the main reason you insist
> that St. Regis must be a mill is that its name appears on the Oregon
> list.

Dr Bear would have been very stupid if he had stated that.

Mark Israel

unread,
May 7, 2003, 7:13:53 PM5/7/03
to
In article <6eb21606.03050...@posting.google.com>, James Harris <jw...@pathfinder.gr> wrote:

>> And after the next coup d'état in Liberia, Saint Regis University

>> will likely "lose whatever recognition it has". Does that worry you?


>
> Mr. MarkIsrael,
> You disappoint me!

You didn't answer my question: "Does that worry you?" I said
"likely". If you don't agree that it's likely, you only have to say
"no".

> What exactly did you use to reach that conclusion, a crystal ball?
> Perhaps one of those pre-programmed ones used ad nauseam by most
> members of degreeinfo?

Some observations about how undemocratic governments function,
and get overthrown?

> Please, don't spoil the rather good impression I have of very few,
> including you, members of degreeinfo.

Your loss; I've found them to be quite a wise bunch.

> Read your statement again please, very carefully. Does that look like
> a statement coming from a Harvard graduate?

Oh, I misspelled a word. Sorry.

> (You are a Harvard graduate, aren't you?)

Bachelor of Science, University of Alberta, 1985. Master of
Computer Science, University of Ottawa, 1997. Some recent graduate-
level courses at Harvard Extension. Other courses at Boston
University, Northeastern University, UMass Lowell, Cornell
University, and Westminster Choir College. Mark Israel is my real
name, and I have no financial stake in any school.

You wrote, "I hold a B.A. in foreign languages and an M.A. in
linguistics, both from RA universities." Would you care to tell
us (1) Which universities were these? (2) Is James W. Harris your
real name? (3) Have you a financial stake in Saint Regis University
or any other school?

Paul Culin presented himself to us as merely an "SRU alumnus",
when he actually had a financial stake in SRU as director of an
affiliate, so I have reason to be suspicious.

Dennis Ruhl

unread,
May 7, 2003, 10:11:04 AM5/7/03
to

St Regis takes your money and gives you a degree, without any work.
Doesn't take a Harvard grad to figure out their business. People who
pay good money for worthless degrees sure get touchy.

Dennis Ruhl

unread,
May 8, 2003, 8:18:57 PM5/8/03
to

Mark Israel wrote:
> *

> You wrote, "I hold a B.A. in foreign languages and an M.A. in
> linguistics, both from RA universities." Would you care to tell
> us (1) Which universities were these? (2) Is James W. Harris your
> real name? (3) Have you a financial stake in Saint Regis University
> or any other school?
>
> *

Are his RA degrees from the Republic of Angola. Maybe the Luanda
campus of St Regis.

---
View this thread: http://www.online-college.info/article530.html

quisling

unread,
May 9, 2003, 7:33:18 PM5/9/03
to

"Dennis Ruhl" <Dennis.R...@email.onlinecollege.info> wrote in message
news:Dennis.R...@email.onlinecollege.info...

>
> Are his RA degrees from the Republic of Angola. Maybe the Luanda
> campus of St Regis.

I think you mean Rwanda, but that doesn't matter. I would kinda like to
know myself.
And I can't wait to see the evidence he's preparing.....


Dennis Ruhl

unread,
May 11, 2003, 5:12:11 PM5/11/03
to

Isn't Luanda the capital of Angola. Evidence - Degrees granted for no
work clinches it for me.

morleyl

unread,
Jul 27, 2003, 1:52:40 AM7/27/03
to

It seems there are two extremes of considerations here.

1. Those who stick to the role of traditional institutions that grant
degrees based on school work.

2. Those who grant degrees based on supposed accumulated experience. No
reference to demonstrated competence.

I think there could be a third or even fourth way that is acceptable
for some persons, not all.

Awarding degrees based on evaluation and demonstration of competence..
this could be an exam or paper on the specific subject areas..

Since a degree is academic then the awarding of one degree should be
based on the demonstrating some academic capabilities.. Maybe the
fourth way is to have professional type degrees such those in the UK
with professional bodies.. This degree is based solely on competence in
that specific specialty..

---
View this thread: http://www.online-college.info/article491.html
morleyl------------------------------------------------------------------------
morleyl's Profile: http://www.online-college.info/forum/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=303

koalmnr

unread,
Jul 27, 2003, 3:56:57 PM7/27/03
to

morleyl wrote:
> *...

> I think there could be a third or even fourth way that is acceptable
> for some persons, not all.
>
> Awarding degrees based on evaluation and demonstration of
> competence.. this could be an exam or paper on the specific subject
> areas..
>
> ... *

See: http://www.bain4weeks.com/mainmenu.html

for discussion on several US Regionally Accredited programs that do
just that.

In particular:

http://www.cosc.edu/
http://www.excelsior.edu/
and
http://www.tesc.edu/

koalmnr------------------------------------------------------------------------
koalmnr's Profile: http://www.online-college.info/forum/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=238

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