Accreditation: I need help.
Brian
Hello. I am trying to figure out if two colleges are equally
accredited, or if one has a better accreditation than the other. I'm
looking at a BS/IS degree from either Grantham University or University
of Phoenix. I like Grantham because they convert a lot of my military
experience to college credit, and books are included in tuition for
military members so there is no out-of-pocket cost to me.
This is what I know:
University of Phoenix is accredited by The Higher Learning Commission
and is a member of the North Central Association.
The Accrediting Commission of the Distance Education and Training
Council (DETC) in Washington, D.C., accredits Grantham University as a
degree granting institution. The DETC Accrediting Commission is listed
by the U.S. Department of Education as a nationally recognized
accrediting agency, and it is also a member of the Council for Higher
Education Accreditation www.chea.org. DETC is one of twenty higher
education accrediting bodies, including the regional commissions,
recognized by the U.S. Department of Education. Each one of these
accrediting commissions is recognized as equal under federal law. DETC
has continuously accredited Grantham Unversity since 1961.
If anyone could help me with this I would be grateful. Sorry for the
long post.
Brian
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Mark Israel
> Hello. I am trying to figure out if two colleges are equally
> accredited, or if one has a better accreditation than the other.
Regional accreditation is much better than DETC accreditation.
"[...] I can report that in my large survey of registrars and
admissions officers of regionally accredited schools 3 years ago,
roughly 20% would routinely accept DETC-accredited degrees, and
roughly 20% would consider them. Acceptance in the business world
should be somewhat higher." -- John Bear
MosheW
some countries overseas.
It gradualy increaces but still may be problematic if used outside of US.
IS DETC accreditation recognized in Canada?
Rich Douglas
be sufficient. But as Mark pointed out (quoting Bear's survey, for which I
did the statistical analyses on), DETC accreditation is often not accepted
for transfer/admission to regionally accredited colleges and universities.
This may limit your opportunities for study at the next level.
My recent survey of human resource professionals indicates a greater level
of acceptance of DETC accreditation.
Be very sure the limitations that come with DETC accreditation are
acceptable to you before pursuing a degree from any DETC-accredited school.
If you are satisfied with that, then Grantham may be a good choice for you.
If not, there are dozens of IS degrees available via distance learning from
regionally accredited schools. Your options are certainly not limited to
the two you list.
Rich Douglas
"Brian" <Brian...@email.onlinecollege.info> wrote in message
news:Brian...@email.onlinecollege.info...
John Bear
If there is a wish or eventual plan either to go on for a higher degree, or to transfer credits, then regional accreditation has a significant advantage over national (such as DETC) accreditation.
From my extensive survey of registrars in 2000:
REGIONAL ACCREDITATION, ON-LINE PROGRAM
Always accept: 93%
Usually accept: 7%
NATIONAL (e.g., DETC) ACCREDITATION
Always accept: 19%
Usually accept: 33%
Sometimes accept: 9%
In the business world, acceptance will be higher, but by no means universal. As one simple but important example, Microsoft has a very extensive academic software program, in which students can buy their software at very low prices. The information on the software boxes clearly and explicitly states that the academic software is available only to people in regionally accredited, and not DETC-accredited schools. I don't agree with this policy, but Mr. Gates didn't ask me.
John Bear
MosheW wrote:
> DETC accreditation is not recognized in
> some countries overseas.
Could you name one or two?
DETC is the first major US accreditor to accredit major universities outside
the United States, including the University of South Africa, the British
Open University, and the University of Leicester.
> It gradualy increaces but still may be problematic if used outside of US.
And this is why it always pays to make sure that any degree one pursues will
meet both current, and predictable future needs.
> IS DETC accreditation recognized in Canada?
It is, I think, local option, but generally yes.
Dennis Ruhl
The regional accreditation of the U of Phoenix has a greater acceptance
than DETC accreditation of Grantham.
If grad studies are in your future, pretty much all regionally
accredited universities accept a U of Phoenix undergrad degree while
considerably less than half will accept a DETC degree.
The problem is the U of Phoenix is so expensive.
Check out Jonnie's Distance Learning Page for undergrad degrees, there
are other options.
http://www.geocities.com/liu_jonathan/dluniv.html
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MosheW
Israel has couple of institutions that recognize foreign credentials.
a. Lishkat HaAcademaim - The Association of Academics.
b. Lishkat ha Mehandesim - The registry
of Engineers.
Only US R.A Institutions of Higher Learning
that are on distributed LISTING that is published by US embassy -- council.
The list is limited to hundreds of Universities and defiantly less than 3,000
properly accredited Universities in US.
Registration as an ACADEMAYI- ( Academian) is for Bachelors degree holders and
up.
If the person has an engineering degree
than he needs to be registered in - Pinkas
Hamehandesim - Registry of Engineers in other to be recognized as an Engineer.
The second one is simple only R.A + ABET from a smaller list of US recognized
universities.
The registration is mandatory for any State or Semi State employment.
more than 50% of emploers in Israel ( HISTADRYT) are eather state or semi
state.
In privet sector registration is a big plus but not required.
Last time I had a chance to look at the list was years ego.
So if DETC accredited schools are on the newer list maybe they are good for
the first registration - recognition.
My friend Raffy who moved to Israel in 2001 with DETC accredited B.Sc degree -
works in privet software company and he told me that he had problems with
degree recognition. If things changed last year or so I wouldn't know.
Jim
> experience to college credit, and books are included in tuition for
> military members so there is no out-of-pocket cost to me.
Brian,
I was mentally juggling the same issues you were between the same
two schools (Grantham and Phoenix). Since you're in the same military
boat as I am, do what I did... take your questions to your local
education office. They were very helpful in sorting out the
differences and explaining my options. I haven't made a choice yet,
but I now have more data to base my decision on.
-=Jim=-
james1
John Bear wrote:
The current part is alright, but the future gets a bit difficult. If I
could better predict the future I'd already be RICH. You can never
fully know what the day may bring, or drop on your head!!
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isnala
I am also in the same boat being Active Duty AF and trying to find a BS
program for Comp Sci and transfering my CCAF.
You might want to check out Touro U. (www.tourou.edu)
I learned about them from this,online-college sight.
They are regionally accredited and seam to have a great program for
tution and military members.
I'm only right now checking in to how much of my CCAF they accept but
from the person I spoke to most if not all should be good.
Jason.
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Brian
Thanks for all the info. I'm just now getting a chance to read all of
the replies. I just got back from a long deployment.
It looks like I have to do more research.
University of Phoenix won't be too expensive, as I will be using
tuition assistance to pay; that covers a good chunck of the cost.
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rdiallo
Brian,
You answered your own question, actually. :)
EACH ONE OF THESE ACCREDITING COMMISSIONS IS RECOGNIZED AS EQUAL UNDER
FEDERAL LAW.
Here is what a lot of people don't know. No regionally accredited
college HAS to accept any of the courses from other regionally
accredited colleges. They do it because of a reciprocity thing. So, you
could have courses from U of Phoenix that might not be accepted at a
school accredtited by Southern States.
The truth of the matter is that in a lot of cases, perception matters
more than anything else. Because RA bodies all follow the same criteria
for accrediting a school, they're comfortable with each other's
schools.
However, the DETC may have different criteria for accrediting a school.
A different method doesn't render it inferior.
But, RA schools are not as familiar with DETC or ACICS accreditation as
they are with their own, so there may be the PERCEPTION that schools
with different accreditation are not as good as ones with regional
accreditation.
Legally, though, because under federal law they are all equal to each
other, as long as the courses are the equivalent in content to the
matching courses offered at the school you're applying to, the courses
should be accepted. However, it's the student's responsibility to
provide course descriptions and syllabi, or a catalog to the school
you're applying to so they can properly evaluate your classes from a
school with accreditation unfamiliar to them.
If you can show that the courses you want to transfer are substantially
the same as the "matching" courses your intended school offers, and the
school REFUSES to accept the credits by citing that they don't
recognize DETC schools, then I would say you have grounds for a
lawsuit.
Federal law supercedes any state or local laws...and the perceptions of
biased transcript evaluators. People always want to believe that "they"
are better than "them".
Just do your homework in advance. Speak to an actual transcript
evaluator and feel him/her out on the "acceptibility" of courses from
non-RA colleges.
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james1
The DETC has been accrediting distance learning schools for a long time.
It's true that there may be times when a RA school may have more
flexibility, but a DETC school may have other values you would like.
With some work you can locate RA schools that will accept a school
DETC accredited. In the private job market anything goes, but I expect
good acceptance of a DETC school. Here is the DETC site if you wish to
check out their schools.
www.detc.org/content/accred.html
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Dennis Ruhl
rdiallo wrote:
> *
> If you can show that the courses you want to transfer are
> substantially the same as the "matching" courses your intended school
> offers, and the school REFUSES to accept the credits by citing that
> they don't recognize DETC schools, then I would say you have grounds
> for a lawsuit.
>
> Federal law supercedes any state or local laws...and the perceptions
> of biased transcript evaluators. People always want to believe that
> "they" are better than "them".
>
> Just do your homework in advance. Speak to an actual transcript
> evaluator and feel him/her out on the "acceptibility" of courses from
Regional accreditors do not necessarily accept each other's programs.
My understanding is that education is a state matter. Federal law in
education only relates the government's acceptance of programs for its
own purposes, including government employment and student assistance.
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james1
Dennis Ruhl wrote:
> *Regional accreditors do not necessarily accept each other's
> programs.
>
> My understanding is that education is a state matter. Federal law in
> education only relates the government's acceptance of programs for
> its own purposes, including government employment and student
I believe that Dennis is correct, at least that is the way I understand
it to be. States reserve the right to control education within their
borders. California-Oregon-Wyoming are good examples of these
differences. :)
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rdiallo
Dennis Ruhl wrote:
> *Regional accreditors do not necessarily accept each other's
> programs.
>
> My understanding is that education is a state matter. Federal law in
> education only relates the government's acceptance of programs for
> its own purposes, including government employment and student
> assistance. *
:)
I said in the first part of my post, that you quoted, that RA
colleges/universities don't have to accept each other's credits.
However, the point the poster made was that under federal law, the
accrediting bodies are all equal.
I was making the point that even though schools don't have to accept
each other's credits, they usually do IF the content of the courses
being transferred is comparable to the courses the intended school
offers. If the content is not comparable, then the class/credits won't
be accepted.
My second point was that simple unfamiliarity with other schools and
alternative accreditation bodies is not justification for not accepting
transfer classes that can be PROVEN to have substantially the same
content.
The only reasons that I know of for a school to NOT accept transfer
credits are 1) a grade below a C (or C- at some schools), 2) they've
already accepted their limit for transfer credits, and 3) the content
of course in question is substantially different (making it NOT
comparable) from the same course the intended school offers.
Barring those reasons, there really are not any other legitimate (that
I can think of) reasons for a school to refuse to accept courses from
other schools that are nationally accredited.
My final point was this: If a person who was refused transfer credit
for COMPARABLE courses JUST BECAUSE they went to a DETC school, and
they could PROVE that the courses are comparable, then they COULD--if
they so chose--challenge the intended school in court, using the
arguement that in federal law all RA and nationally accredited schools
are EQUAL. So, for the intended school to reject comparable courses
just because they THINK DETC accreditation is INFERIOR to their own
means that they are contravening federal law...which they can't do.
To refuse to accept courses just because of an "us" and "them"
mentality, or a PERCEPTION or STEREOTYPE about alternatively accredited
schools being "inferior" COULD BE CHALLENGED LEGALLY. If the refusing
school can't prove that the courses in question DON'T teach the skills
and theory that their SAME courses require, then the refusing school
will lose.
But, of course, someone would have to start legal proceedings, and with
the great number of other RA schools that WILL accept DETC credits, it
really wouldn't be worth it. But, if a person had no alternatives, then
legal action might be an option for them.
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Dennis Ruhl
I agree that the quality of DETC accredited schools falls within the
range of regionally accredited schools.
DETC is actually stricter in accepting transfer and portfolio type
credits.
I just don't think the courts or anyone should intrude on what
individual schools consider to be academic standards above minimal
standards.
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MosheW
Q. If my credits do not transfer to a regionally accredited college, is my DETC
credential useless?
The fact that regionally accredited colleges refuse to accept credits from
another school because it is not regionally accredited flies directly in the
face of national policies advocated by American Council on Education (ACE), the
American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers (AACRAO),
Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA), et al. The real issue here
has less to do with the academic quality of the sending institution, and more
to do with anti-competitive business practices of the receiving institution.
Competition is heating up in higher education, and there are forces at work to
control the inroads being made by “upstart” operators. Congress, the
Department of Education, and the Department of Justice have been looking into
this anti-competitive practice by higher education, and we suspect we will see
significant activity in the coming months on this matter.
Frequently Asked Questions
Q. Is DETC accreditation equal to “regional” accreditation?
A. In every measurable way, yes! DETC accreditation is just as valid as any
regional accreditation. DETC has been officially recognized by the Secretary of
Education since 1959, and by the Council for Higher Education and its
predecessors since 1975. We meet the precisely same standards as do the
regionals, and we would hasten to add we have vastly more experience and
tougher, more stringent standards for distance learning than any other agency
in the U.S. Distance learning is our only business.
Q. Will the credits I receive from a DETC-accredited institution be accepted by
a traditional college or university?
A. Our 2001 survey of DETC graduates showed that of those who attempted (and
only 1 of 3 did attempt) to transfer credits and degrees, 2 of 3 were
successful.
Acceptance of degrees or credits from DETC-accredited institutions is largely
determined by the policy of the "receiving organization," e.g., an employer, a
college registrar, etc. DETC accreditation is not a guarantee that credit will
transfer to any college or university. You should always check with the college
or university that you wish to transfer your credits to before you enroll in a
course. The American Council on Education reviews courses of DETC-accredited
institutions and makes credit recommendations that are published annually in
"The National Guide to Educational Credit for Training Programs" or call Oryx
Press at 1-800-279-ORYX.
Some 1
> EACH ONE OF THESE ACCREDITING
> COMMISSIONS IS RECOGNIZED AS
> EQUAL UNDER FEDERAL LAW...
> Legally, though, because under federal
> law they are all equal to each other...
My understanding is that federal law is explicit that accreditors are
recognized by the US Department of Education only for the purpose of
distributing federal education funds. Federal law wants federal funds to
go to credible schools and not to go to degree-mills, so it directs the
US DoEd to recognize a set of accreditors whose standards it finds
credible. I have never heard that this legally defines all those
accreditors to be academically equivalent, and frankly I doubt if that
was ever the government's intent.
> Federal law supercedes any state or
> local laws...
Precisely what federal law are we talking about here, and what does it
say exactly?
MosheW
The word "accreditation" has acquired many shades of meaning over the years.
Distance education accreditation is certification by a recognized body that a
distance education institution has voluntarily undergone a comprehensive study
and peer examination that has demonstrated that the institution does in fact
meet the established standards. The institution must perform the functions that
it claims: that it has set educational goals for students who enroll, offers
formal, organized learning experiences and services that enable students to
meet these stated goals, and can, in fact, show that students and graduates
have benefited from the learning experiences provided.
Basically, accreditation is a process that gives public recognition to
institutions that meet certain standards. It is a promise that an institution
will provide the quality of education it claims to offer. Accreditation assures
the student that the institution operates on a sound financial basis, has an
approved program of study, qualified instructors, adequate facilities and
equipment, effective recruitment and admission policies, and advertises its
courses truthfully.
Historically and currently, accreditation may be said to:
• foster excellence in education through the development of standards for
assessing educational effectiveness;
• encourage improvement through continuous self-evaluation and planning; and
• assure the educational community, students, state and federal authorities,
the general public and other interested agencies or organizations that an
institution has clearly defined and appropriate objectives; maintains
conditions under which their achievement can be reasonably expected; appears in
fact to be accomplishing them; and can be expected to continue to do so.
DETC accreditation is an institution-wide source of nationally recognized
accreditation that covers all distance study courses offered by an institution.
It is unique in American accreditation because it is one based upon a method of
instruction rather than educational level or subject matter discipline. It
covers all programs, courses and distance study endeavors of an institution,
including degree, non-degree, vocational and avocational programs.
Why Become Accredited?
Why would an institution want to be accredited?
Accreditation provides an opportunity to improve the educational quality of
your institution. It provides a means of evaluating and comparing your
courses/programs, facilities, and procedures with those of others. It involves
a process whereby an accrediting body grants public recognition to an
institution as having met certain standards. However, the greatest value of
accreditation is to be found in undergoing the process itself, a process of
self-evaluation in which an institution voluntarily monitors and controls its
own behavior to ensure that its "programs and policies embody standards of good
practice."
DETC accreditation is founded on these philosophic principles:
• Accreditation is purely voluntary. The applicant institution voluntarily
elects to apply for accreditation and it voluntarily agrees to comply with all
standards and policies of the Commission.
• Accreditation is a non-governmental peer review process in which the
integrity and good faith of an institution and its officers are essential.
• The burden of proof in demonstrating compliance with standards rests with
the institution, not with the Accrediting Commission. The institution must
prove to the Accrediting Commission that it meets or exceeds the standards.
• The Accrediting Commission considers information about an applicant
institution from any source in reaching its conclusion.
• Accreditation is by its nature a formal, but nonetheless, collegial
process. It works best when there is a common agreement that the chief purpose
for seeking accreditation is the identification of soundness, honesty and
quality in the practice of distance education.
See "Benefits of Accreditation."
MosheW
different recognized accreditors, and often an RA university might not accept
credit from a school accredited by a non-RA accreditor.
But the thing that ACE is best known for among admissions counselors is their
credit evaluation service. Many RA schools have a policy of accepting non-RA
educational experience that has been evaluated by the ACE as being
university-equivalent.
The California State University is an example of this. They will accept non-RA
credit if the credit has been approved by the ACE. There are nationally
accredited schools, like the DETC Catholic Distance University, that have had
all of their courses evaluated by the ACE, thereby greatly improving their
transferability.
(In my opinion, more non-RA schools should consider doing this. Besides
improving the utility of DETC-type programs, it would be a big step towards
credibility for state-approved schools. Since they can do it on a
course-by-course basis, and since it doesn't involve all the institutional and
administrative scrutiny that the accreditors inflict, it would be an easier
thing to pull off than accreditation for a new and tiny educational start-up.)
It's interesting that the courses that the ACE evaluates needn't be university
courses at all. They don't even need to be accredited. ACE's credit
recommendation service was actually created to give credit for on-the-job
education and in-house corporate training. The basic ACE publication on this is
their 'National Guide to Educational Credit for Training Programs'.
One place this really shines is in military training. ACE has a whole division
dedicated to evaluating military courses and giving them credit recommendations
where appropriate. The ACE maintains an elaborate list of these recomendations
in their 'Guide to the Evaluation of Educational Experience in the Armed
Services'.
MosheW
The California State University. They will accept non-RA credit if the credit
Rose Bear
As Josh (Rick) Walston, co-author of Walston & Bear's Guide to Earning
Religious Degrees Nontraditionally, once said, "There is accreditation
and then there is 'accreditation.'" With accreditation, the
accreditation agency needs to be accreditated by an agency that
accredits the accreditation agency, either USDOE or COPA, later CORPA,
now CHEA, preferably both. Being accredited by one of the six regional
accreditation agencies is sometimes considered more prestigious than
being accredited by DETC, which is a national accreditation agency that
accredits distance learning programs. It used to be thought that DETC
accreditation would be a permanent bar to regional accreditation.
However, American Military University, where I am pursuing my MA in
Civil War Studies, has been accredited by DETC for many years and has
just announced that the Southern Association will soon be making an
on-site visit as part of the accreditation process. So, apparently,
DETC accreditation will no longer bar one from being considered for
regional accreditation. Also, you mention that your proposed degree
program has something to do with IT or engineering or computers (one of
those technical things that little girlish liberal arts majors like me
could never understand), so you might also look up your respective
professional accreditation agency. Finally, if I were you, I would look
at how you plan on using your degree. If you are looking at being a
high school teacher or college professor, your regional accreditator is
probably more important. If you are looking at a career in the computer
field working in private industry, if your degree had any accreditation
at all, the boss would probably be happy. If your degree had no
accreditation at all, many private industry employers would probably
care less, provided you learned something in school that makes you a
better employee than you were before you held your degree. In the event
that some prospective bosses in private industry knew everything that
there is to know about accreditation, they would probably prefer
professional accreditation for the engineering/computers/IT program.
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