What happens when you quit Eckankar (you really don't want to know)
Sharo...@myremarq.com
> > Just the check.
> >
>
> Sharon, Hate to point this out to you, but, in the Catholic church (for
> instance), not only do you sign a weekly check, if you're not giving
> cash, but you sign a "membership agreement" with your church, promising
> to abide by their laws and beliefs. If you attend any classes it is
> cusomary to pay for those, as well as be harshly critisized if you miss
> any of them. I could go on and on, but signing a check to an
> organization you have chosen out of free will and informed choice is not
> that big of a deal, my dear.
>
> Judy
> "May The Blessings Be"
Sorry, Judy, but you're wrong. I didn't sign any membership
agreements. I toss a few dollars in the basket when I go to
Mass.
I don't promise to abide by any laws and beliefs...just my own
conscience. That's the ultimate authority in Catholicism.
After not having anything to do with Catholicism for roughly 35
years, I could just walk in and participate. The parish priest,
who I spoke with afterwards, said no problem. I told him what I
believed (which isn't necessarily in total agreement with some of
the dogma) and how I felt. The sacraments of Baptism and First
Holy Communion which I'd received as a child were still valid.
I went to a few classes until my work hours interfered. There was
no money requested there. When I couldn't attend, there was no
comment other than a friendly, hey, where were you? Oh...another
set of classes I wanted to take *did* charge, just a few dollars
which doesn't even cover the cost of printed materials. When it
turned out I couldn't fit those into my schedule, the only comment
was, gee...that's too bad, but feel free to start anytime when your
schedule changes.
Eckankar requires yearly membership renewals. Initiations are
removed after 5 years of "rest" unless you ask questions, in which
case they're removed immediately, and accompanied by a stern advisory
that should you choose to return (after being "punished" for six months)
you have to start all the way back at the bottom.
I'd say the only thing I could say bad about my personal experience
with the Catholic Church was when I was a kid, and the nuns couldn't or
wouldn't explain exactly what adultery was, or tell me the exact
temperature of hell.
I signed quite a few checks to eckankar over the years. I thought I
was doing it freely. But when I woke up, I realized how I'd been
deceived. And it was NEVER a matter of free choice, or informed
consent. The cult lied to me. Paul Twitchell's writings, the "Holey
Scriptures" supposedly dictated by eckmasters, lied.
Sharon
--
http://members.delphi.com/sharon2000
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet for the Web
Jackie
> removed after 5 years of "rest" unless you ask questions, in which
> case they're removed immediately, and accompanied by a stern advisory
> that should you choose to return (after being "punished" for six months)
> you have to start all the way back at the bottom.
I wonder why anyone who quits Eckankar expects to keep their
initiations. If you train in a technical field, get the diploma, work in
this field for a while then stop for 5 or more years, do you think
you'll still be effective in that job? How about if you go out for
sports, train as a professional football quarterback (as an example),
play some games but get injuried. You stop playing for 5 years or more.
Will you be able to be the quarterback right away or will you have to
train and work yourself to that position again?
--
With love, Jackie
Sharo...@myremarq.com
> > Eckankar requires yearly membership renewals. Initiations are
> > removed after 5 years of "rest" unless you ask questions, in which
> > case they're removed immediately, and accompanied by a stern advisory
> > that should you choose to return (after being "punished" for six
> > months) you have to start all the way back at the bottom.
>
> I wonder why anyone who quits Eckankar expects to keep their
> initiations.
Why do you assume people who quit the cult expect, or want to keep
their initiations?
I'll tell you...back when I was getting out, just about the most
wonderful gift I've ever received in my life was that letter
saying if I did indeed resign, my initiations would be removed,
and if I wanted to join again, I had to wait six months, and then
I would start all the way at the beginning. Signing and returning
that letter made me feel really incredibly and totally free.
If you train in a technical field, get the diploma, work in
> this field for a while then stop for 5 or more years, do you think
> you'll still be effective in that job? How about if you go out for
> sports, train as a professional football quarterback (as an example),
> play some games but get injuried. You stop playing for 5 years or more.
> Will you be able to be the quarterback right away or will you have to
> train and work yourself to that position again?
Irrelevant.
What you're writing is just as meaningless as your cult's
initiations.
And...it shows quite clearly that your cult equates membership
with spiritual growth & a "connection" to Spirit.
Sharo...@myremarq.com
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Judy wrote:
>
> >> Sharon, Hate to point this out to you, but, in the Catholic church
> >> (for instance), not only do you sign a weekly check, if you're not
> >> giving cash, but you sign a "membership agreement" with your church,
> >> promising to abide by their laws and beliefs. If you attend any
> >> classes it is cusomary to pay for those, as well as be harshly
> >> critisized if you miss any of them. I could go on and on, but signing
> >> a check to an organization you have chosen out of free will and
> >> informed choice is not that big of a deal, my dear.
>
> "signed a membership agreement". Nor was I ever asked to pay for classes
> or harshly criticized for not attending.
>
Of course, there was the threat of hellfire....<ggg>
Didn't quite believe in it when I was a kid. And you know...
I also have a vague memory of when I asked the nun for the
exact temperature of hell, she said something like what was
important was not being able to see God. They had limbo
back then, too. That's where unbaptized babies went. It was
just like heaven except you couldn't see God. I thought that
was a rotten thing to do to babies, but I also didn't think
it would be that bad without Him. Everyone knew what he
looked like anyway...that old guy in the chair with the beard
and that big book didn't look like he was much fun... <ggg>
> In this case, does another church's alleged ethically bankrupt membership
> policy make Eckankar's ok? Where did you get this flawed ethical
> perspective?
>
No...but they do that a lot, don't they? Like...it's okay for
them to have the missionary indoctrination "Letters to a Chela"
because of the secret Jesuit Monistat stuff!!
When I was growing up, I was always told "two wrongs don't
make a right."
> When I was an Eckist, I really felt oppressed by their "membership"
> policy. I had to renew my membership every year, which made no sense to
> me at all.
I never had a problem with the membership policy. They
had expenses. Once I heard that at one time, they
offered a lifetime membership for $1,000 or something...
back when $1,000 was a lot of money. I thought it would
be wonderful if I could ever afford it!
>Why not just establish the membership once and leave it at
> that? I felt that it was a tactic to extract more money out of me.
I never felt that way. I just worried when I was a bit
short and felt quite guilty about it when I'd have to
let it lapse for a few months. Although I'd read the
little line that said you could contact the office about
getting the fee lowered, well...I also believed what
was written, that we had to pay for what we received.
Although you could also pay with service and suffering.
I just felt I could never give back enough...
When
> I first renewed my membership, the Eckist on the phone, without
> explaining the donation waiver policy, asked: "How are you going to pay?"
> But when you THINK that Harold Klemp is going to escort you past the
> Lords of Karma at the time of your death
You know, I felt that my karma was my problem. I'd
learned, of course, that Harold would dole it out in
amounts we could handle. I thought Harold had a lot
more faith in me than I did, actually. Okay, I'll
admit there were quite a few times when I'd say, hey
Harold, really...I don't mind stretching out the karma
over a few more lifetimes, can you ease up a bit? <g>
>and you have bought into the
> other forms of spiritual bribery Eckankar promotes, such as the
> "protection of the Mahanta", this ploy seems insignificant and you go
> along.
Well, I didn't buy into any bribery...I just honestly
believed that even though I didn't know it, I'd always
been an eckist and that was what was responsible for my
"experiences" and why the heck would I ever want to not
be an eckist? It was LIFE, you know....twitch said so!!
Duh. Okay, I was gullible. The deceit on the "outer"
is set up perfectly to go along with the "inner" deceit.
You know...I believed in that "protection." I believed in
it so strongly that I didn't feel right about doing the
rituals that Nathan recommended to protect me from those
entitites that reach out of the computer monitor. I told
him I believed in the protection of the Mahanta, and that
the rituals were just white magic, and I didn't feel
comfortable doing them.
He said that was the most ridiculous thing he'd ever heard.
Well...what I believed in evidently wasn't the cult's
copyrighted "mahanta." But it turned out, it *didn't*
have anything to do with the cult!! And...I am protected
to this day. I've been protected all my life.
> $130 seems like a small price to pay for all these forms of
> protection and insulation from
> who-knows-what-that-goes-bump-in-the-night.
>
I always *liked* scary stuff!!!
> I have never heard of, nor participated in, any church or spiritual path
> with this kind of yearly membership renewal requirement. Nor have I ever
> encountered a religion or path that excommunicated you if you did not
> perform some administrative ritual like Eckankar requires. Nor have I
> ever felt compelled by any religion or spiritual path to pay a large
> yearly donation.
>
Actually, I think a lot of them...the cult-type ones...
do things like this.
> In Sant Mat, they say- "No TRUE master would ever accept money for their
> instruction or initiations" These masters live off their own income
> instead.
I'm curious about this...and I know that you just get one
lifetime initiation, and sometimes two.
I have a strong aversion to the word "master" though....
Anyway...are there any good Sant Mat websites you could
recommend?
Sharon
PS: James Beam, former eckist, has a nice site at
http://www.wisdomradio.com ... lots of interesting stuff!! I'm
pretty sure there are links there to his onelist groups...
Jackie
>
> Jackie <hu4...@home.and.inthe.godworlds> wrote:
> > > Eckankar requires yearly membership renewals. Initiations are
> > > removed after 5 years of "rest" unless you ask questions, in which
> > > case they're removed immediately, and accompanied by a stern advisory
> > > that should you choose to return (after being "punished" for six
> > > months) you have to start all the way back at the bottom.
>
> >
> > I wonder why anyone who quits Eckankar expects to keep their
> > initiations.
>
> Why do you assume people who quit the cult expect, or want to keep
> their initiations?
Why do you and other d-tractors make such an issue about it? Why is it
such an important question in all d-tractors' posts?
>
> I'll tell you...back when I was getting out, just about the most
> wonderful gift I've ever received in my life was that letter
> saying if I did indeed resign, my initiations would be removed,
> and if I wanted to join again, I had to wait six months, and then
> I would start all the way at the beginning. Signing and returning
> that letter made me feel really incredibly and totally free.
Good, you made the right decision for yourself.
>
> If you train in a technical field, get the diploma, work in
> > this field for a while then stop for 5 or more years, do you think
> > you'll still be effective in that job? How about if you go out for
> > sports, train as a professional football quarterback (as an example),
> > play some games but get injuried. You stop playing for 5 years or more.
> > Will you be able to be the quarterback right away or will you have to
> > train and work yourself to that position again?
>
> Irrelevant.
>
> What you're writing is just as meaningless as your cult's
> initiations.
I could say the same about your posts and all the "statements" in them.
>
> And...it shows quite clearly that your cult equates membership
> with spiritual growth & a "connection" to Spirit.
No, you missed the point altogether.
--
With love, Jackie
An Introductory Welcome to ECKANKAR
ECKANKAR Main Web Site:
http://www.eckankar.org
ECKANKAR, Ancient Wisdom for Today:
http://www.eckankar.org/freeBook.html
HU, A Love Song to God:
http://www.eckankar.org/hu.html
Spiritual Exercises of ECKANKAR:
http://www.eckankar.org/spex.html
Basic Beliefs of ECKANKAR:
http://www.eckankar.org/beliefs.html
Sri Harold Klemp, The Spiritual Leader of ECKANKAR
http://www.eckankar.org/Harold/index.html
History of ECKANKAR
http://www.eckankar.org/history.html
Sri Harold Klemp Message, 1:14 Min.:
http://www.eckankar.org/harold.mov
Jackie
>
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Judy wrote:
>
> >> Sharon, Hate to point this out to you, but, in the Catholic church (for
> >> instance), not only do you sign a weekly check, if you're not giving
> >> cash, but you sign a "membership agreement" with your church, promising
> >> to abide by their laws and beliefs. If you attend any classes it is
> >> cusomary to pay for those, as well as be harshly critisized if you miss
> >> any of them. I could go on and on, but signing a check to an
> >> organization you have chosen out of free will and informed choice is not
> >> that big of a deal, my dear.
>
> I was once a Catholic and I never, ever, "signed any weekly checks" or "signed a
> membership agreement". Nor was I ever asked to pay for classes or harshly
> criticized for not attending.
>
My guess is more people claim to be of the Catholic, Jewish, Buddist,
etc. faith and not belong to any church then those who actually "belong
to" and are "members" to a particular church/temple. Anyone can go to a
church or temple and worship with the rest. Not everyone "belongs" or
"joins" the organization. There is a difference. Commitment is one.
--
With love, Jackie
An Introductory Welcome to ECKANKAR
ECKANKAR Main Web Site:
http://www.eckankar.org
ECKANKAR Table of Content:
http://www.eckankar.org/content.html