Harold and Margie and John and Joan

Fantum

unread,

Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00

to

To the tune of "Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice" (old movie.....)

Once upon a time in a galaxy far, far away......

Harold Klemp was married to Margie Klemp...and...Joan Jenkins was
married to John Jenkins...

Now Margie was (and is) a Super-Strong lady...so if anyone couldn't
hand the "power flow"...it would be Harold who couldn't handle Margie's.
(Remember...Harold is the guy who couldn't handle "EMF" (the electro-
magnetice force field generated by all things electric) so he had to
stay at home and away from telephones, television, computers, and power
lines...and also used to DRIVE to seminars in California because he
couldn't fly (...that nasty EMF again...)

Beats the beans out of me how the mahanta, the living eck master (lower
case letters fully intended) who handles the "flow of the Eck" in all
universes and communes directly with Da Sugmad, can't handle a little
EMF!

Anyhoo, I guess Joan felt that she would like to become "The Living Eck
Mistress"...so she dumped John for Harold. Now John was (is) a
super-nice guy and a lot better looking than Harold.

So there are three points (lessons) here:

(1) Do as I say. don't do as I do (..Harold's writing on family
and morality)
(2) If you are the LEM...your theme song definitely ain't "I only have
goonies for you" (meaning his wife...Darwin had the same problem)
(3) Is youse is an eck chela, keep a smile on yo' face and keep yo' big
mouth shut...or we kick you butt out of da org.

PS: Am I the only one who noticed that the "bad guy" in the last James
Bond movie looked like Harold without his glasses...This guy had no
feelings, emotion, pain sensation or sense of humor because of a
bullet that 009 put in his head. This gave him delusions of
megalomaniacal grandeur....and, interestingly enough, the pic was
called "The World Is Not Enough"!

Sweet Dreams Kiddies!!!

gruendemann

unread,

Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00

to

faked headers and fake name.... don't you love the tatics of cowards on
the internet? :-) If you had something worth reading, then you wouldn't
need to hide like a petty frightened child in order to post, would you?
:-)

Fantum wrote:
>
> To the tune of "Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice" (old movie.....)
>
> Once upon a time in a galaxy far, far away......

there was a post from a bored little boy with nothing constructive to do
with his miserable little life..... so he sat down to the computer....
which his parents most likely paid for..... and typed a rediculous piece
of tripe to make him seem as though he had something to so say in this
world. Then his parents turned off the lights and made him go to bed.....

Fantum

unread,

Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00

to

I love it when the Gruendefish rises to the bait. SNAP!!!...and he's
hooked...just like that. It's soooo easy...just slightly alter the
"politically correct" way of spelling and there's Gruende (sword and
shield in hand ready to "defeat the defeatless" (from Zorro, The Gay
Blade..starring George Hamilton). Hooked eternally on minutia, riding
the mental merry-go-tound (as Paul T. use to say), unable to rise above
the worlds of duality into the Pure, Positive....oh well, you know the
rest. He assumes the name and address are "fake", just because he can't
contact them. I guess a "God World's" email address and moniker is just
beyond Gruende's grasp. Far be it for someone like Happy Harold to use
a fake name (like WAH-Z) or a fake address (like the Anami Lok).

Watch it Gruende, if you keep on chasing your tail...you may catch it.

Fantum

gruendemann

unread,

Aug 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/24/00

to

Tell it to SpamCop, lovey! ;-) So now that you've made all kinds of nasty
assertions at me as well as Margie, Joan, Harold and just about everyone
else.... I guess we should all be sooooooo impressed by your presence? Is
that the game here? Nasty useless comments give you power? Stupid human
pet tricks make you worth reading?

Grow up little boy or we'll tell your mommy to add the usenet groups to
cyberpatrol!

Fantum

unread,

Aug 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/24/00

to

His royal gruendeship wrote:
>I guess we should all be sooooooo impressed by your presence? Is
>that the game here? Nasty useless comments give you power? Stupid human
>pet tricks make you worth reading?

Gee...I dunno Gruende...your keep reading and replying...you tell me!!
Maybe if you'd stop giving me YOUR ENERGY...I'd vanish....hmmmmm? Seems
I can make you sit up, beg, and roll over without much effort! Guess
you're just a MAYA junkie!

Ta-Ta,

Fantum

KayDeeRu

unread,

Aug 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/25/00

to

<< Harold Klemp was married to Margie Klemp...and...Joan Jenkins was
married to John Jenkins...

Now Margie was (and is) a Super-Strong lady...so if anyone couldn't
hand the "power flow"...it would be Harold who couldn't handle Margie's.
(Remember...Harold is the guy who couldn't handle "EMF" (the electro-
magnetice force field generated by all things electric) so he had to
stay at home and away from telephones, television, computers, and power
lines...and also used to DRIVE to seminars in California because he
couldn't fly (...that nasty EMF again...)

Beats the beans out of me how the mahanta, the living eck master (lower
case letters fully intended) who handles the "flow of the Eck" in all
universes and communes directly with Da Sugmad, can't handle a little
EMF!

Anyhoo, I guess Joan felt that she would like to become "The Living Eck
Mistress"...so she dumped John for Harold. Now John was (is) a
super-nice guy and a lot better looking than Harold.

>>

Margie is really nice, but my personal thoughts were that she didn't like being
in the lime light.

If I remember correctly, John and Joan Jenkins were divorced before Harold
became the Living ECK Master, back in 1981.

Joan Jenkins returned to her former name of Joan Cross. She published articles
in the 1984 and 1985 editions of the ECK Mata Journal under the name Joan
Cross.

And Harold's not the only one who has a problem with EMF. My sister has the
EXACT same problem.

K.

Fantum

unread,

Aug 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/25/00

to

Kay,

You are a nice person and I respect your reply. Harold, Joan, Margie,
and John are also nice people and I wish them all well. My only point
here is: Do people truly believe Harold is anything other than another
human being with the same characteristics as all of us? Cosmology tells
us that there are billions upon billions of galaxies containing
trillions upon trillions of solar systems within them. I feel that it
is the height of egotism to tell people that one "dust mite" on an
infinitessimally small cosmic fuzz ball (earth) is the "devine" essence
in charge of the whole shebang. My humble opinion only.

Best wishes,

Fantum

gruendemann

unread,

Aug 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/25/00

to

Amazing... why didn't you simply say this is the first place instead of
the line of junk you posted originally? But then hey, you might have come
across as a dust mite, yourself..... hmmmmmmm..... now there's something
to contemplate on, hey? ;-)

Imsoul

unread,

Aug 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/25/00

to

Hello and please excuse my intrusion here.

I just wanted to add my humble opinion as a long time member of Eckankar. I
have always believed Harold to be a human being just like the rest of us.
Imperfect in an imperfect world. There is no physical being IMO that is
capable of escaping imperfection as long as they are in a physical body. He
is also the Living Eck Master and the leader of Eckankar, religion of the
Light and Sound of God. As such, I believe, he deserves the same respect as
the leaders of any other religion in the physical world. Lastly and this is
the part that I think causes confusion to some Eckists, former Eckists and
people who have never belonged to Eckankar; he is the Mahanta, the Spiritual
leader. This is not a physical thing and therefore not subject to physical
laws. It is the Mahanta that is capable of the inner support that many have
received. It is very difficult to describe the Mahanta in physical terms
because it is not a physical thing.

To find out more about the Mahanta go to:

http://www.eckankar.org/Harold/index.html

I hope this helps.

--
Imsoul

......and so are you :-)

"Fantum" <fan...@cave.com> wrote in message news:39A60F...@cave.com...

Sharo...@playful.com

unread,

Sep 1, 2000, 11:50:55 AM9/1/00

to

Fantum <fan...@cave.com> wrote:
> To the tune of "Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice" (old movie.....)
>
> Once upon a time in a galaxy far, far away......
>

> Harold Klemp was married to Margie Klemp...and...Joan Jenkins was
> married to John Jenkins...
>
> Now Margie was (and is) a Super-Strong lady...so if anyone couldn't
> hand the "power flow"...it would be Harold who couldn't handle Margie's.
> (Remember...Harold is the guy who couldn't handle "EMF" (the electro-
> magnetice force field generated by all things electric) so he had to
> stay at home and away from telephones, television, computers, and power
> lines...and also used to DRIVE to seminars in California because he
> couldn't fly (...that nasty EMF again...)
>
> Beats the beans out of me how the mahanta, the living eck master (lower
> case letters fully intended) who handles the "flow of the Eck" in all
> universes and communes directly with Da Sugmad, can't handle a little
> EMF!
>
> Anyhoo, I guess Joan felt that she would like to become "The Living Eck
> Mistress"...so she dumped John for Harold. Now John was (is) a
> super-nice guy and a lot better looking than Harold.
>

> So there are three points (lessons) here:
>
> (1) Do as I say. don't do as I do (..Harold's writing on family
> and morality)
> (2) If you are the LEM...your theme song definitely ain't "I only have
> goonies for you" (meaning his wife...Darwin had the same problem)
> (3) Is youse is an eck chela, keep a smile on yo' face and keep yo' big
> mouth shut...or we kick you butt out of da org.
>
> PS: Am I the only one who noticed that the "bad guy" in the last James
> Bond movie looked like Harold without his glasses...This guy had no
> feelings, emotion, pain sensation or sense of humor because of a
> bullet that 009 put in his head. This gave him delusions of
> megalomaniacal grandeur....and, interestingly enough, the pic was
> called "The World Is Not Enough"!
>
> Sweet Dreams Kiddies!!!

Hi Fantum....gee, if it's not too much trouble, please add
"alt.religion.eckankar" to the "to" field!

So...you seem to know the characters. When I was a cult member, all I got
was what was in the eckbooks. One day Harold is preaching about how if
the cult interferes with your marriage & family, drop the cult. The next
day, he's divorced, blaming it on his wife's inability to handle his power
flows, and kaboom...he's remarried!!

I only knew that #1 was an eckist, too. And...that Klemp as the "mahanta"
was in charge of balancing all the chelas. (plus weather control and
protecting chelas from pesky black magicians!)

The whole thing just didn't make sense to me. But...heck, what did *I*
know! Klemp had the "highest consciousness" and all that stuff...

I'll check out the new Bond movie when I have the change, but to be honest,
they're just not the same without Sean Connery! <gg

Sharon

--
http://members.delphi.com/sharon2000
http://www.iguild.com/homes/eckcult
Former addresses: sharo...@myremarq.com
scom...@cub.kcnet.org, demon...@my-deja.com
twink...@my-deja.com

Sharo...@playful.com

unread,

Sep 1, 2000, 12:09:44 PM9/1/00

to

"Imsoul" <rick_c...@telus.net> wrote:
> Hello and please excuse my intrusion here.
>
> I just wanted to add my humble opinion as a long time member of Eckankar.
> I have always believed Harold to be a human being just like the rest of
> us. Imperfect in an imperfect world. There is no physical being IMO that
> is capable of escaping imperfection as long as they are in a physical
> body.

That's how I felt & believed when I was a cult member.

> He is also the Living Eck Master and the leader of Eckankar,
> religion of the Light and Sound of God. As such, I believe, he deserves
> the same respect as the leaders of any other religion in the physical
> world.

I don't respect a person based on their title or job.

My respect needs to be *earned*. I gave Harold my respect, until it was
quite clear I'd given it to someone who doesn't deserve it.

Lastly and this is the part that I think causes confusion to some
> Eckists, former Eckists and people who have never belonged to Eckankar;
> he is the Mahanta, the Spiritual leader.

Now...I don't think you should be using "mahanta" to equate with "spiritual
leader", because that *is* saying it's physical & connected to klemp.

However...that's what your cult wants to do. It started out that way in
the beginning, with Twitch. Harold continues it.

We're not at all confused, Rick.

This is not a physical thing and
> therefore not subject to physical laws. It is the Mahanta that is capable
> of the inner support that many have received. It is very difficult to
> describe the Mahanta in physical terms because it is not a physical
> thing.

I think what the cult is doing, is using the 'inner voice' or 'guardian
angel' concept and trying to link it to Klemp.

And...that's clear. Klemp himself is confused about it.

We all have something within us, something that guides us. I had it before
the cult. Your cult lied about it and claimed it was Harold.

That's just not so. I've proven that for myself since I got out, as have
many others.

>
> To find out more about the Mahanta go to:
>
> http://www.eckankar.org/Harold/index.html
>
> I hope this helps.

I think it would be more helpful to read:

http://www.iguild.com/homes/eckcult/masters.html

and

http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/godman.html and
/masterlie.html

gruendemann

unread,

Sep 1, 2000, 12:17:51 PM9/1/00

to

And here we have, boys and girls, evidence of how Sharon works. Her great
technique for finding Truth in this univers. <vbg's>

Sharo...@playful.com wrote:
> Hi Fantum....gee, if it's not too much trouble, please add
> "alt.religion.eckankar" to the "to" field!
>
> So...you seem to know the characters. When I was a cult member, all I got
> was what was in the eckbooks. One day Harold is preaching about how if

<snip gossip mongers head trip>
> Sharon

G. Michael Turner

unread,

Sep 8, 2000, 10:26:58 PM9/8/00

to

Hi

I just have a quick question. Where did the comment about Marge not being
able to handle Harold's "power surges" come from? I haven't heard that one
before.

Thanks!

Michael

Sharo...@playful.com wrote in message
<20000901115054.551$z...@newsreader.com>...

Rich

unread,

Sep 9, 2000, 4:02:26 AM9/9/00

to

G. Michael Turner wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I just have a quick question. Where did the comment about Marge not being
> able to handle Harold's "power surges" come from? I haven't heard that one
> before.

Oh, it's just one of the many things that Sharon purposefully makes up,
distorts all out of proportion, is deluded or has faulty memory about.
I've never seen a quote. Much of the National Inquirer style stuff she
writes about that seems unbelievable, is.

This will help you to understand, with her own words, where she is
coming from.
http://members.tripod.com/Oasis_Committee/oasis/sharon.html
--
o
|
~/|
_/ |\
/ | \
-/ | \
_ /____|___\_
(___________/
Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

gruendemann

unread,

Sep 9, 2000, 9:52:24 AM9/9/00

to

Obviously Michael that comment came out of the toilet!

"G. Michael Turner" wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I just have a quick question. Where did the comment about Marge not being
> able to handle Harold's "power surges" come from? I haven't heard that one
> before.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Michael
>
> Sharo...@playful.com wrote in message
> <20000901115054.551$z...@newsreader.com>...

the_trol...@my-deja.com

unread,

Sep 9, 2000, 11:14:57 AM9/9/00

to

In article <39B9EE...@aloha.net>,

Rich <rsm...@aloha.net> wrote:
> G. Michael Turner wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > I just have a quick question. Where did the comment about Marge
not being
> > able to handle Harold's "power surges" come from? I haven't heard
that one

> > before.<<<Child in the Widerness? I have read the power flows
before. But long ago I realized Harold's head games in his books, I got
rid of all his books. I will soon get rid of Harold revised Paulji
books due to the mind control crap and spin Harold has edited into them.
Do you not find it interesting that Harji's re-edited Paulji books have
more pages than the originals? Gosta make room for all that "spin".
Harold's epitaph ought to be:" It would be a sin, if it ain't got that
spin".-Troll>>>

>
> Oh, it's just one of the many things that Sharon purposefully makes
up,
> distorts all out of proportion, is deluded or has faulty memory
about.
> I've never seen a quote. Much of the National Inquirer style stuff
she
> writes about that seems unbelievable, is.
>
> This will help you to understand, with her own words, where she is
> coming from.
> http://members.tripod.com/Oasis_Committee/oasis/sharon.html
> --
> o
> |
> ~/|
> _/ |\
> / | \
> -/ | \
> _ /____|___\_
> (___________/
> Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

gruendemann

unread,

Sep 9, 2000, 11:45:22 AM9/9/00

to

To G. Michael:
Please read the post below to see for yourself where these rumors and lies
come from! This sort of source is common place on a.r.e. unfortunately.
But it is a good place to learn the difference between judgmental opinion
and fact! :-)

Sharo...@playful.com

unread,

Sep 9, 2000, 5:15:41 PM9/9/00

to

Rich <rsm...@aloha.net> wrote:
> G. Michael Turner wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > I just have a quick question. Where did the comment about Marge not
> > being able to handle Harold's "power surges" come from? I haven't
> > heard that one before.
>
> Oh, it's just one of the many things that Sharon purposefully makes up,
> distorts all out of proportion, is deluded or has faulty memory about.
> I've never seen a quote. Much of the National Inquirer style stuff she
> writes about that seems unbelievable, is.
>

Sorry, Rich, but I was an eckist at the time. One day I'll find what
I read again, and post it.

Harold said the divorce happened because #1 couldn't handle the great
power flows of the master. I wondered about that, because eckankar taught
that the "master" balanced the chelas. It didn't make sense to me.

Especially considering there was a child involved. And, Harold's other
"teachings" that if eckankar is interfering with a family, then the eckist
member should keep it on the inner or whatever...because family is
important.

And I'm pretty sure I read the "power flow" excuse even *before* I learned
that he'd remarried.

The whole thing isn't much different from Klemp telling eckists (2nd
initiates and above) that he was moving the "temple" site to MN because of
bad psychic forces and threats of invading Mexicans in AZ. But...he tells
Doug personally that it was because of the ecology and lack of convention
facilities.

I think these are only two examples of how as LEM, Klemp manipulates and
controls cult members, and basically screws with their heads.

I accepted it at the time, though.

> This will help you to understand, with her own words, where she is
> coming from.
> http://members.tripod.com/Oasis_Committee/oasis/sharon.html

<yawn>

You know, Rich, I give people more credit than you and your cult's
"leaders" do.

I think the Samorez Memorial Roster, as well as just watchin a.r.e., tells
where you and your fellow eckmissionaries are coming from. And it ain't a
very nice place.

gruendemann

unread,

Sep 9, 2000, 5:30:11 PM9/9/00

to

Now here's another stellar source of material for detractors!!!! Miss
Sharon! :-)

Sharo...@playful.com wrote:
>
> Rich <rsm...@aloha.net> wrote:
> > G. Michael Turner wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > I just have a quick question. Where did the comment about Marge not
> > > being able to handle Harold's "power surges" come from? I haven't
> > > heard that one before.
> >
> > Oh, it's just one of the many things that Sharon purposefully makes up,
> > distorts all out of proportion, is deluded or has faulty memory about.
> > I've never seen a quote. Much of the National Inquirer style stuff she
> > writes about that seems unbelievable, is.
> >
>
> Sorry, Rich, but I was an eckist at the time. One day I'll find what
> I read again, and post it.

That would be nice considering you've been posting this for months now!

> Harold said the divorce happened because #1 couldn't handle the great
> power flows of the master. I wondered about that, because eckankar taught
> that the "master" balanced the chelas. It didn't make sense to me.

I've never seen this one, but I do wonder about someone who writes these
things and can't remember where she saw them. hmmmmmmmm?

> Especially considering there was a child involved. And, Harold's other
> "teachings" that if eckankar is interfering with a family, then the eckist
> member should keep it on the inner or whatever...because family is
> important.

Sharon, what on earth are you rambling about now? LOL......... talking to
hear her head roar I guess.........

> And I'm pretty sure I read the "power flow" excuse even *before* I learned
> that he'd remarried.

Find it, okay? Your "pretty sure" has a pretty dreadful track record....

> The whole thing isn't much different from Klemp telling eckists (2nd
> initiates and above) that he was moving the "temple" site to MN because of
> bad psychic forces and threats of invading Mexicans in AZ. But...he tells
> Doug personally that it was because of the ecology and lack of convention
> facilities.

And of course there are only one set of effects involved in any event,
right? There are never other effects that come from a given event....
right? And where was the quote to back this up? Your word for these things
is real thin, Sharon.

> I think these are only two examples of how as LEM, Klemp manipulates and
> controls cult members, and basically screws with their heads.

Can I quote you on this material? Please?!? It lends so much credibility
to the idea that some detractors are just opinionated crackpots. :-)

> I accepted it at the time, though.

???????

> > This will help you to understand, with her own words, where she is
> > coming from.
> > http://members.tripod.com/Oasis_Committee/oasis/sharon.html
>
> <yawn>

Not getting enough sleep dear? :-)

> You know, Rich, I give people more credit than you and your cult's
> "leaders" do.

You also give them credit for saying things they never said and doing
things they never did as well.... yes, we all know this about you Sharon!

> I think the Samorez Memorial Roster, as well as just watchin a.r.e., tells
> where you and your fellow eckmissionaries are coming from. And it ain't a
> very nice place.

Based on what? Considering that these detractors have for a long time used
so many different addys to cover their tracks as to who's posting, it's
kind of nice to have a table of contents on the frauds.

> Sharon

the_trol...@my-deja.com

unread,

Sep 9, 2000, 6:27:59 PM9/9/00

to

Bullshit! Not only had I read it in a Harji book, but us Eckists talked
about it in Satsang about 8 or 9 years ago. A few lady Eckists
commented on how it must be a challenge to be a Mrs.LEM. If I had kept
his books, I would post the damn source now. But a few of you gutless
wonders for truth knew about the summary judgement in a U.S. District
Court and hid that fact too. How the hell I knew you hid it was because
after I originally mentioned my discovery of the court records,a few
day ago, ya'll put a hyperlink on a message to the website source. You
good folks sat on it until your hand was tipped. You who love God will
not admit to any bit of truth until your hand is tipped or you are
cornered. In a private eMail, I asked Mr. Doug Marmon to allow me two
weeks to post the entire Court record on this forum. I intend to.-Troll
In article <39BA3F95...@worldnet.att.net>,

TruthSeeker

unread,

Sep 9, 2000, 8:24:40 PM9/9/00

to

the_trol...@my-deja.com wrote in message

In a private eMail, I asked Mr. Doug Marmon to allow me two
>weeks to post the entire Court record on this forum. I intend to.-

Please do that if you can, troll. Then we will all --well I will anyway - be
better served. But be sure to inquire if it is legal to do so before you do
post it here. No need to create further legal hassles. If everything is done
with a pure heart and a wish for the good of whole, then everybody is served
well -- well, at least I might be. *ggg*.

Rich

unread,

Sep 10, 2000, 3:47:05 AM9/10/00

to

Sharo...@playful.com wrote:

> I think the Samorez Memorial Roster, as well as just watchin a.r.e., tells
> where you and your fellow eckmissionaries are coming from. And it ain't a
> very nice place.