info
Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
2022/10/05 Wednesday: Joel 2:28 explained: The difference between "dreams" and "visions," and how they relate with “The Great I AM” (John 8:58)
21 views
Skip to first unread message
Richard Silk
Oct 5, 2022, 12:53:52 PM10/5/22
to
(Posted / edited at: https://discussingjesus.quora.com/Joel-2-28-explained-The-difference-between-dreams-and-visions-and-how-they-relate-with-The-Great-I-AM-John-8-58 )
Joel 2:28 explained: The difference between "dreams" and "visions," and how they relate with “The Great I AM” (John 8:58):
As some of you may be aware, I've been keeping a "dream journal" over at Google Groups— alt.dreams (historically known simply as "alt.dreams" from back in the days of USENET.) I had a very "crude" understanding from reading the Bible that dreams have some type of Spiritual connection, but have been at a bit of a back-and-forth understanding (literally!) as to how they function / relate.
This morning, it finally "crystallized" to the point of being able to put it into words, so let's start back with Joel 2:28 from the Old Testament with a verse from the "past present" of the "infinite (eternal, timeless) understanding" of God, as communicated "through the Spirit" through the second minor prophet, Joel (whose "feast" occurs on October 19th):
Joel 2:28 And afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.
So I have often pondered on the "connection / relation" between "dreams" and "visions." I knew them to be somewhat different in nature, yet somehow kept failing to understand how they also seem to be "the same."
Now granted, I've had "dreams" *and* "visions" (as separate incidents) including one *whopper* of a vision that occurred with my eyes wide open, of a golden globe unfolding *instantly* (as either the Universe or as a Galaxy, depending upon scale/perspective: as an outward-spiraling unfolding, almost like a “burst” yet not an "explosion" where everything turns into shreds, like the paper detritus of a firecracker) into practically "countless" points of light / stars within the golden sphere (possibly galaxies, again, depending upon scale) and noted along the way that some dreams border upon visions of tomorrow or the coming week, etc.
Well, last Sunday's sermon / message was on the nature of the soul, that being the sense of "I AM", of [Ἐγώ] (Egō) "I AM" ([Egō eimi) [Ἐγώ] [εἰμι]. https://youtu.be/v0jxEJTZjrE?t=1451 and that concept (in Greek, the [Egō eimi) [Ἐγώ] [εἰμι] "I AM") is the "means / method of communication being accessed" during dreams / visions / waking reality.
(Please note, that the breathing “Spirit” is what keeps alive the “brain” that is the “house of the mind” that is One’s “Soul,” or “Being.”)
One simply *is*, as “Reality conforms to Thought.” Jesus Himself teaches this in Matthew 9:29— Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."—
So why do "young men see visions" while "old men will dream dreams"?
Simple:
The "narrative" (visual sequence of events) viewed in a dream "represents" a type of concatenation/condensation communication/discussion of everything from the infinite "NOW" of the present present (of the individual) with a point, a moment in the individual’s "past present," while the narrative in a vision represents the same type of communication/discussion, except it's that of the "present present" (of the individual’s “NOW”) with the "future present" (of that individual.)
“Waking reality” is simply the moment of the Infinite (always) "NOW present."
Simplified:
Dreams = past communicating with the present
Visions = present communicating with the future
Reality = the present moment of NOW.
Well, it seems like a fairly simple, straight-forward explanation, but would you believe it took me (roughly) around *FIVE HOURS* to get this done (along with all the other issues that came up this morning)?
To understand the Tetragrammaton (אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה) concept of God as recorded in Exodus 3:14— And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM…. (along with the fact that "God is Love", 1 John 4:8) look at: "I AM THAT I AM"—
OK: I am NOW typing this message (involving around 20 seconds or so) that I am NOW typing this message. (NOW is always NOW.)
"I AM" (One IS) the *consequence* of *all* past *and* “I AM” (One IS) the *cause* of *all* future.
This is more commonly recognized as the Scripture from Revelation 1:8— "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come— the Almighty
as well as Revelation 22:13— "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End"
although I have seen a documentary (one of the Josh Gates shows researching ancient Egypt) wherein someone (*way* before the time of Jesus) wrote on a tomb wall: [I am the beginning of man and the end of man] (or something very similar) so apparently this is a somewhat Universal understanding that occurs whenever one fully listens to / communicates with one's soul.
[1❤️0]: "Love thine enemies"— Jesus, Matthew 5:44.
Joel 2:28 explained: The difference between "dreams" and "visions," and how they relate with “The Great I AM” (John 8:58):
As some of you may be aware, I've been keeping a "dream journal" over at Google Groups— alt.dreams (historically known simply as "alt.dreams" from back in the days of USENET.) I had a very "crude" understanding from reading the Bible that dreams have some type of Spiritual connection, but have been at a bit of a back-and-forth understanding (literally!) as to how they function / relate.
This morning, it finally "crystallized" to the point of being able to put it into words, so let's start back with Joel 2:28 from the Old Testament with a verse from the "past present" of the "infinite (eternal, timeless) understanding" of God, as communicated "through the Spirit" through the second minor prophet, Joel (whose "feast" occurs on October 19th):
Joel 2:28 And afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.
So I have often pondered on the "connection / relation" between "dreams" and "visions." I knew them to be somewhat different in nature, yet somehow kept failing to understand how they also seem to be "the same."
Now granted, I've had "dreams" *and* "visions" (as separate incidents) including one *whopper* of a vision that occurred with my eyes wide open, of a golden globe unfolding *instantly* (as either the Universe or as a Galaxy, depending upon scale/perspective: as an outward-spiraling unfolding, almost like a “burst” yet not an "explosion" where everything turns into shreds, like the paper detritus of a firecracker) into practically "countless" points of light / stars within the golden sphere (possibly galaxies, again, depending upon scale) and noted along the way that some dreams border upon visions of tomorrow or the coming week, etc.
Well, last Sunday's sermon / message was on the nature of the soul, that being the sense of "I AM", of [Ἐγώ] (Egō) "I AM" ([Egō eimi) [Ἐγώ] [εἰμι]. https://youtu.be/v0jxEJTZjrE?t=1451 and that concept (in Greek, the [Egō eimi) [Ἐγώ] [εἰμι] "I AM") is the "means / method of communication being accessed" during dreams / visions / waking reality.
(Please note, that the breathing “Spirit” is what keeps alive the “brain” that is the “house of the mind” that is One’s “Soul,” or “Being.”)
One simply *is*, as “Reality conforms to Thought.” Jesus Himself teaches this in Matthew 9:29— Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."—
So why do "young men see visions" while "old men will dream dreams"?
Simple:
The "narrative" (visual sequence of events) viewed in a dream "represents" a type of concatenation/condensation communication/discussion of everything from the infinite "NOW" of the present present (of the individual) with a point, a moment in the individual’s "past present," while the narrative in a vision represents the same type of communication/discussion, except it's that of the "present present" (of the individual’s “NOW”) with the "future present" (of that individual.)
“Waking reality” is simply the moment of the Infinite (always) "NOW present."
Simplified:
Dreams = past communicating with the present
Visions = present communicating with the future
Reality = the present moment of NOW.
Well, it seems like a fairly simple, straight-forward explanation, but would you believe it took me (roughly) around *FIVE HOURS* to get this done (along with all the other issues that came up this morning)?
To understand the Tetragrammaton (אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה) concept of God as recorded in Exodus 3:14— And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM…. (along with the fact that "God is Love", 1 John 4:8) look at: "I AM THAT I AM"—
OK: I am NOW typing this message (involving around 20 seconds or so) that I am NOW typing this message. (NOW is always NOW.)
"I AM" (One IS) the *consequence* of *all* past *and* “I AM” (One IS) the *cause* of *all* future.
This is more commonly recognized as the Scripture from Revelation 1:8— "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come— the Almighty
as well as Revelation 22:13— "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End"
although I have seen a documentary (one of the Josh Gates shows researching ancient Egypt) wherein someone (*way* before the time of Jesus) wrote on a tomb wall: [I am the beginning of man and the end of man] (or something very similar) so apparently this is a somewhat Universal understanding that occurs whenever one fully listens to / communicates with one's soul.
[1❤️0]: "Love thine enemies"— Jesus, Matthew 5:44.
Richard Silk
Oct 8, 2022, 11:57:24 AM10/8/22
to
Astral combat:
While I suppose my "older age" may be partially responsible for the "slow motion" nature of the dream/encounter I'm about to detail, still, it follows the very general outline of how these things ("astral / dream combat") *tend* to operate:
The dreamer noticed a kind of "shell" (almost as a snake sheds its skin) that was around the dreamer, feeling mostly on the "left" side of the dreamer. There was a definite moment in which the dreamer "felt" as if the shell-structure (I fell calling it an "entity" would attribute it with undeserved credit) were grabbing or in some way clinging to the dreamer's left heel (one of the few times in which I've been aware of my actual foot (or feet) within a dream, although there was little awareness of the right foot *other* than the dreamer was heading toward the right. Besides, the shell-structure had a grip of the dreamer's *left* heel, so that's where the dreamer's mind/attention was focused.)
The dreamer had the impression that by simply continuing toward the right, the shell-structure would naturally "release" (or "fall off") so to speak, pretty much as in the same way when one is taking off a coat, with a left-hand release, while moving toward the right, the coat will fall to the floor to one's left. However, there was a moment when the dreamer was aware of the potential choice, to stay in place— (in which case the shell-structure would likely remain or even return, much like a "coat of darkness," as if one were to "slip back into shadow") —or to continue toward the right (which is what the dreamer chose to do) so as to continue sloughing off the shadow-structure.
Except that it *seemed* as if the shadowy shell-structure *wanted* to remain *upon* (or perhaps "united *with*") the dreamer, which the dreamer by this time was going to have no part of, except that the shell-structure seemed to be nearly enclosing the dreamer, much as one thug might try to body-grab a target.
At this point, the dreamer realized that leverage of some kind would be helpful, and "aimed" towards the *thought* of a door jam (just thinking of a door jam seemed to erect a vertical barrier, much like as if one were walking through the skeleton of a house that was in the process of being framed.)
This aiming for a door frame somehow resulted in the shell-structure being bonked in the head as the dreamer passed *through* the door frame, which slowed down the shell-structure / pushed it away slightly, at which point the *thought* of smashing the skull of the shell-structure resulted in a view of a directly impacted skull of the shell-structure, at which point it seemed to completely "fall away" as the dreamer became free and the dream ended.
And while this dream had a very "clear" *mental* component of 10, the visual clarity was basically shadow and light, much like the color scheme one sees when shutting one's eyelids and noting the color observed when there is light on the other side of the eyelids. (Personal note: as I've been typing this up this morning, there's a distinctive "pressure" as if within my skull, located a bit above and between my left eye and the bridge of my nose, the "mirror location" of where the impact was seen in the shell-structure. And before anyone becomes concerned over my health, it is *likely* the result of simple sinus pressure this morning.)
Cats and Dogs?—
There was some peculiar dream regarding my current ("real life") dog ("Ginger") and a few other critters, possibly one dog and two cats, or one cat and two dogs— the dreamer wasn't paying particularly close attention to the critters, as the primary scene appeared to involve Ginger as the defender of the dreamer, chasing away the scruffy looking other critters, at which she seemed to be successful as the dream ended, Clarity 8-.
Funny— in this one dream, the dreamer had taken something of a short trip (as if from one's residence in one part of town to an area near the center of town, such as on the north sidewalk of East Vine Street, east of the intersection with South Church Street) in order to scoop up a handful of dry dog food (like the kind I feed Ginger) from the sidewalk, and actually began to "chow down" on what had been scooped up and placed into the dreamer's mouth. As the dreamer was pondering something along the lines of "What the ...?" the dream ended (thankfully!) —Clarity 8+/9-!
Frustration:
The dreamer was in something like a "poor" environment, wherein everything the dreamer's female "domestic partner" was doing seemed to be making things worse. There was observed something like a thin spray-leak from a water pipe under a sink that was sogging up everything, which resulted from the domestic partner's attempt to "fix" something else. Dream ended, but it was definitely reminiscent of trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Clarity 8-
While I suppose my "older age" may be partially responsible for the "slow motion" nature of the dream/encounter I'm about to detail, still, it follows the very general outline of how these things ("astral / dream combat") *tend* to operate:
The dreamer noticed a kind of "shell" (almost as a snake sheds its skin) that was around the dreamer, feeling mostly on the "left" side of the dreamer. There was a definite moment in which the dreamer "felt" as if the shell-structure (I fell calling it an "entity" would attribute it with undeserved credit) were grabbing or in some way clinging to the dreamer's left heel (one of the few times in which I've been aware of my actual foot (or feet) within a dream, although there was little awareness of the right foot *other* than the dreamer was heading toward the right. Besides, the shell-structure had a grip of the dreamer's *left* heel, so that's where the dreamer's mind/attention was focused.)
The dreamer had the impression that by simply continuing toward the right, the shell-structure would naturally "release" (or "fall off") so to speak, pretty much as in the same way when one is taking off a coat, with a left-hand release, while moving toward the right, the coat will fall to the floor to one's left. However, there was a moment when the dreamer was aware of the potential choice, to stay in place— (in which case the shell-structure would likely remain or even return, much like a "coat of darkness," as if one were to "slip back into shadow") —or to continue toward the right (which is what the dreamer chose to do) so as to continue sloughing off the shadow-structure.
Except that it *seemed* as if the shadowy shell-structure *wanted* to remain *upon* (or perhaps "united *with*") the dreamer, which the dreamer by this time was going to have no part of, except that the shell-structure seemed to be nearly enclosing the dreamer, much as one thug might try to body-grab a target.
At this point, the dreamer realized that leverage of some kind would be helpful, and "aimed" towards the *thought* of a door jam (just thinking of a door jam seemed to erect a vertical barrier, much like as if one were walking through the skeleton of a house that was in the process of being framed.)
This aiming for a door frame somehow resulted in the shell-structure being bonked in the head as the dreamer passed *through* the door frame, which slowed down the shell-structure / pushed it away slightly, at which point the *thought* of smashing the skull of the shell-structure resulted in a view of a directly impacted skull of the shell-structure, at which point it seemed to completely "fall away" as the dreamer became free and the dream ended.
And while this dream had a very "clear" *mental* component of 10, the visual clarity was basically shadow and light, much like the color scheme one sees when shutting one's eyelids and noting the color observed when there is light on the other side of the eyelids. (Personal note: as I've been typing this up this morning, there's a distinctive "pressure" as if within my skull, located a bit above and between my left eye and the bridge of my nose, the "mirror location" of where the impact was seen in the shell-structure. And before anyone becomes concerned over my health, it is *likely* the result of simple sinus pressure this morning.)
Cats and Dogs?—
There was some peculiar dream regarding my current ("real life") dog ("Ginger") and a few other critters, possibly one dog and two cats, or one cat and two dogs— the dreamer wasn't paying particularly close attention to the critters, as the primary scene appeared to involve Ginger as the defender of the dreamer, chasing away the scruffy looking other critters, at which she seemed to be successful as the dream ended, Clarity 8-.
Funny— in this one dream, the dreamer had taken something of a short trip (as if from one's residence in one part of town to an area near the center of town, such as on the north sidewalk of East Vine Street, east of the intersection with South Church Street) in order to scoop up a handful of dry dog food (like the kind I feed Ginger) from the sidewalk, and actually began to "chow down" on what had been scooped up and placed into the dreamer's mouth. As the dreamer was pondering something along the lines of "What the ...?" the dream ended (thankfully!) —Clarity 8+/9-!
Frustration:
The dreamer was in something like a "poor" environment, wherein everything the dreamer's female "domestic partner" was doing seemed to be making things worse. There was observed something like a thin spray-leak from a water pipe under a sink that was sogging up everything, which resulted from the domestic partner's attempt to "fix" something else. Dream ended, but it was definitely reminiscent of trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Clarity 8-
Billy “My-news” Ferrell
Oct 10, 2022, 3:45:08 AM10/10/22
to
On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 11:53:52 AM UTC-5, dick...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> (Posted / edited at: https://discussingjesus.quora.com/Joel-2-28-explained-The-difference-between-dreams-and-visions-and-how-they-relate-with-The-Great-I-AM-John-8-58 )
> Joel 2:28 explained:
> The difference between "dreams" and "visions,"
> and how they relate with “The Great I AM” (John 8:58):
Long Time Dick Since We Had
>
> (Posted / edited at: https://discussingjesus.quora.com/Joel-2-28-explained-The-difference-between-dreams-and-visions-and-how-they-relate-with-The-Great-I-AM-John-8-58 )
> Joel 2:28 explained:
> The difference between "dreams" and "visions,"
> and how they relate with “The Great I AM” (John 8:58):
A Conversation Between Us
Visions
Would Be A Off-Topic Post
Here In /alt.dreams
But Had Two Of Them In My Live Time
One When I Was About 16 Year Old
One night my step-father took me fishing
it was a clear night all the stars and the moon was out
Truly it was a nice cool night
But seems To Me like the fish wouldn't bite
so I when to laydown
upon the embankment of lake
and looked up at the Night sky
lo
I See Two Big Stars Side By Side
Off To The right Of The Moon
A Good Three Hands A Way
About Meddle In The North Sky
Then One Star Move away From One Another
Toward The Moon Who Was Full At The Time
And Move Behind It
To Not The Be Seen No More
Now Know This
That The Moon And All Stars
But One Was Of The True Night Sky
Only That One Star Was Of The Vision
After The Evince
My Step-Father
Who Was Siting Off About 500 Feet
Off To The West Of Me
I Was Able To See Him
Out Of My Right Side Of Eye
At No Time Did He Take
His Eye Off of The Lake
After The Manifest Come To Pass
My Step-Father got up And Walk Over To Me A Said
Look Like The Fish Are Not Batting Bait To Night
In Fishing
batting (noun)
the action of hitting A Lure
He Say We Need To pack Up
Time To Go Home
Richard Silk
Oct 10, 2022, 5:00:23 PM10/10/22
to
BRF wrote [with some editing]
BRF:> "Visions Would Be [an] Off-Topic Post Here In /alt.dreams"
Except that the post was on dreams AND visions and how they relate with each other with respect to the dreamer. I'd argue that visions are merely dreams of the future, thus remain "on topic" in alt.dreams, but to continue:
BRF:> "But Had Two Of Them In My [Life] [Time,] One When I Was About 16 Year [Old:]
BRF:> "[lo, I] See Two Big Stars Side By Side
A few preliminary questions: is this from the perspective of the Southern or Northern hemisphere? Anything being near the moon (to the right) in the [northern] sky would likely be in the summer (in the northern hemisphere) but I'm uncertain as to how that would play out in the Southern hemisphere (South of the Equator.)
BRF:> "Then One Star [Moved] away From [the other]
To [Not Be Seen afterward]"
(That last line had to be cleared up in that manner, otherwise, it grammatically had all *sorts* of "holes" in it.)
BRF:> "Now Know This
BRF:> "After The [Event] My Step-Father
BRF:> "I Was Able To See Him
BRF:> "After The Manifest Come To Pass
When the fisherman says it's time to turn in, it's time to turn in ✔
BRF:> "In Fishing batting (noun) the action of hitting A Lure"
In American English, this is referred to as "biting" (like taking repeated bites out of an apple.)
BRF:> "He [said 'We Need To pack Up— Time To Go Home'."]
I've also heard the expression, "Time to go to the house."
Just as a suggestion, you may wish to sign up to get text messages from the passing over of the ISS in your area, then see if what you spot in the evening/night sky is similar or different from what you saw that night.
Once such a comparison is either [confirmed or denied] then other options may be examined.
BRF:> "Visions Would Be [an] Off-Topic Post Here In /alt.dreams"
Except that the post was on dreams AND visions and how they relate with each other with respect to the dreamer. I'd argue that visions are merely dreams of the future, thus remain "on topic" in alt.dreams, but to continue:
BRF:> "But Had Two Of Them In My [Life] [Time,] One When I Was About 16 Year [Old:]
One night my step-father took me fishing
it was a clear night all the stars and the moon was out
Truly it was a nice cool night
But seems To Me like the fish wouldn't bite
so I when to laydown
upon the embankment of lake
and looked up at the Night sky"
(Was this much during the dream, or preceding the dream?)
it was a clear night all the stars and the moon was out
Truly it was a nice cool night
But seems To Me like the fish wouldn't bite
so I when to laydown
upon the embankment of lake
and looked up at the Night sky"
BRF:> "[lo, I] See Two Big Stars Side By Side
Off To The right Of The Moon
A Good Three Hands A Way
About [Middle] In The North Sky"
A Good Three Hands A Way
A few preliminary questions: is this from the perspective of the Southern or Northern hemisphere? Anything being near the moon (to the right) in the [northern] sky would likely be in the summer (in the northern hemisphere) but I'm uncertain as to how that would play out in the Southern hemisphere (South of the Equator.)
BRF:> "Then One Star [Moved] away From [the other]
Toward The Moon Who Was Full At The Time
And [Moved] Behind It
To [Not Be Seen afterward]"
(That last line had to be cleared up in that manner, otherwise, it grammatically had all *sorts* of "holes" in it.)
BRF:> "Now Know This
That The Moon And All Stars
But One Was Of The True Night Sky
Only That One Star Was Of The Vision"
Either that, or you may have been spotting the International Space Station. It is *very* possible for it to "disappear* from view depending upon the rotation of the earth with respect to the sun. I've seen it "wink out" in the middle of an orbital flight path over my home once upon a time (somewhere within the past 5 years?) because the station had passed into the earth's shadow from the sun. If I'd not been out deliberatly looking for the station at that time, it would possibly have confused me to no end! Fortunately, I've spotted the station on numerous occasions (before and since.)
But One Was Of The True Night Sky
Only That One Star Was Of The Vision"
BRF:> "After The [Event] My Step-Father
Who Was Siting Off About 500 Feet
Off To The West Of Me"
So I'm taking there was NO "dream" portion to any of this, that this was observed while fully awake. Is this correct?
Off To The West Of Me"
BRF:> "I Was Able To See Him
Out Of My Right Side Of Eye
At No Time Did He Take
His Eye Off of The Lake"
Fishermen come to fish.
At No Time Did He Take
His Eye Off of The Lake"
BRF:> "After The Manifest Come To Pass
My Step-Father got up And Walk Over To Me A Said
Look Like The Fish Are Not [Biting] Bait [Tonight]"
When the fisherman says it's time to turn in, it's time to turn in ✔
BRF:> "In Fishing batting (noun) the action of hitting A Lure"
In American English, this is referred to as "biting" (like taking repeated bites out of an apple.)
BRF:> "He [said 'We Need To pack Up— Time To Go Home'."]
I've also heard the expression, "Time to go to the house."
Just as a suggestion, you may wish to sign up to get text messages from the passing over of the ISS in your area, then see if what you spot in the evening/night sky is similar or different from what you saw that night.
Once such a comparison is either [confirmed or denied] then other options may be examined.
Billy “My-news” Ferrell
Oct 12, 2022, 3:52:02 AM10/12/22
to
On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 4:00:23 PM UTC-5, dick. wrote:
>
>> BRF wrote [with some editing]
>> BRF:> "Visions Would Be [an] Off-Topic Post Here In /alt.dreams"
>
> Dick:> Except that the post was on dreams AND visions
>
>> BRF wrote [with some editing]
>> BRF:> "Visions Would Be [an] Off-Topic Post Here In /alt.dreams"
>
> and how they relate with each other with respect to the dreamer.
> I'd argue that visions are merely dreams of the future, thus remain
> "on topic" in alt.dreams, but to continue:
BRF:> Not relate with each other
> I'd argue that visions are merely dreams of the future, thus remain
> "on topic" in alt.dreams, but to continue:
with respect to A Dreamer.
one is You A Sleep [Dreams]
and the other Is You Are Awake
With Eyes Open Is [ A Visions]
>> BRF:> "But Had Two Of Them In My [Life] [Time,]
>> One When I Was About 16 Year [Old:]
>> One night my step-father took me fishing
>> it was a clear night all the stars and the moon was out
>> Truly it was a nice cool night
>> But seems To Me like the fish wouldn't bite
>> so I when to laydown
>> upon the embankment of lake
>> and looked up at the Night sky"
BRF:> Dick I was Awake Eyes And Not Dreaming
>> BRF:> "[lo, I] See Two Big Stars Side By Side
>> Off To The right Of The Moon
>> A Good Three Hands A Way
>> About [Middle] In The North Sky"
>>
BRF:> Dick It Was Northern hemisphere
The Moon To The East
The Stars To The West Of the Moon
Kay County
Oklahoma 74601
36.70488054840553, -97.14323862356248
> Dick:> Anything being near the moon (to the right) in the [northern] sky would likely be in the summer (in the northern hemisphere)
> but I'm uncertain as to how that would play out in the Southern hemisphere (South of the Equator.)
BRF:> Being Summer August 24, 1972
>> BRF:> "Then One Star [Moved] away From [the other]
>> Toward The Moon Who Was Full At The Time
>> And [Moved] Behind It
>> To [Not Be Seen afterward]"
>
>
>> BRF:> "Now Know This
>> That The Moon And All Stars
>> But One Was Of The True Night Sky
>> Only That One Star Was Of The Vision"
> Dick:> Either that, or you may have been spotting the International Space Station.
>> BRF:> "Now Know This
>> That The Moon And All Stars
>> But One Was Of The True Night Sky
>> Only That One Star Was Of The Vision"
> It is *very* possible for it to "disappear* from view depending upon the rotation of the earth with respect to the sun.
> I've seen it "wink out" in the middle of an orbital flight path over my home once upon a time (somewhere within the past 5 years?)
> because the station had passed into the earth's shadow from the sun.
> If I'd not been out deliberatly looking for the station at that time,
> it would possibly have confused me to no end! Fortunately,
> I've spotted the station on numerous occasions (before and since.)
BRF:> Aug 21 US orbiting astronomy observatory Copernicus launched
> I've seen it "wink out" in the middle of an orbital flight path over my home once upon a time (somewhere within the past 5 years?)
> because the station had passed into the earth's shadow from the sun.
> If I'd not been out deliberatly looking for the station at that time,
> it would possibly have confused me to no end! Fortunately,
> I've spotted the station on numerous occasions (before and since.)
I Know It Was Not The Copernicus It was Not Big As
Jupiter was the Big Star ⚹ And The Vision Star ⚹ Was Just As Big
The Full Moon On Thursday, 24 August 1972, 07:21:42 pm
50 Years Ago
>> BRF:> "After The [Event] My Step-Father
>> Who Was Siting Off About 500 Feet
>> Off To The West Of Me"
> that this was observed while fully awake. Is this correct?
BRF:> This Is Correct I Was Awake
>> BRF:> "I Was Able To See Him
>> Out Of My Right Side Of Eye
>> At No Time Did He Take
>> His Eye Off of The Lake"
>> Fishermen come to fish.
>
>> BRF:> "After The Manifest Come To Pass
>> My Step-Father got up And Walk Over To Me A Said
>> Look Like The Fish Are Not [Biting] Bait [Tonight]"
>
>
>> BRF:> "In Fishing batting (noun) the action of hitting A Lure"
> In American English, this is referred to as "biting"
> (like taking repeated bites out of an apple.)
BRF:> Batting Lure Good For Full Moon
>> BRF:> "In Fishing batting (noun) the action of hitting A Lure"
> In American English, this is referred to as "biting"
> (like taking repeated bites out of an apple.)
< https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.cOY54u1M-c2Am_Rr10YbGAHaC5?w=349&h=137&c=7&r=0&o=5&pid=1.7 >
In Okie, It's Just The Play On Words
Y'ay'a Will Come To Banish Evil LaIa
Like Y'ay'a = n : The Creator or Great Spirit.
The term Y'aY'a or I'aI'a means Spirit of Spirits.
>> BRF:> "He [said 'We Need To pack Up— Time To Go Home'."]
> Dick:> I've also heard the expression, "Time to go to the house."
Richard Silk
Oct 12, 2022, 12:36:19 PM10/12/22
to
On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:52:02 AM UTC-5, BillyRayF wrote:
> On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 4:00:23 PM UTC-5, dick. wrote:
> >
> >> BRF wrote [with some editing]
> >> BRF:> "Visions Would Be [an] Off-Topic Post Here In /alt.dreams"
> >
> > Dick:> Except that the post was on dreams AND visions
> > and how they relate with each other with respect to the dreamer.
> > I'd argue that visions are merely dreams of the future, thus remain
> > "on topic" in alt.dreams, but to continue:
> BRF:> Not relate with each other
> with respect to A Dreamer.
> one is You A Sleep [Dreams]
> and the other Is You Are Awake
> With Eyes Open Is [ A Visions]
Ah. Yes, the eyes open as in a vision, closed as in a dream. That's one way to define it, sure, but what is a vision, other than a waking dream? And many dreams are of the future (as in "premonitions") so the basic gist of what I was originally getting at (eventually the actual text will slip from my memory) is that dreams have two basic directions: forwards (as visions / premonitions, apocalyptic events, such as the Book of the Revelation of Saint John of Jesus Christ) or backwards (from the present-now to a past-now) which is often a *very quiet* type of experience) or (more commonly) of the past up to the present (as a kind of summary of the past.)
> On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 4:00:23 PM UTC-5, dick. wrote:
> >
> >> BRF wrote [with some editing]
> >> BRF:> "Visions Would Be [an] Off-Topic Post Here In /alt.dreams"
> >
> > Dick:> Except that the post was on dreams AND visions
> > and how they relate with each other with respect to the dreamer.
> > I'd argue that visions are merely dreams of the future, thus remain
> > "on topic" in alt.dreams, but to continue:
> BRF:> Not relate with each other
> with respect to A Dreamer.
> one is You A Sleep [Dreams]
> and the other Is You Are Awake
> With Eyes Open Is [ A Visions]
This also ties in with "astral body projections" / OOBEs, although those are typically so intense / vivid that there is no question one was taking part in such.
So here's the thing, Billy, this is all (of course) the perspective I have chosen to share on these matters. Certainly, your perspective (as well as that of others) *may* differ. Such is Life 👍
> >> BRF:> <snip>
> >> so I when to [lay down upon the embankment and looked up at the Night sky]
> > Dick:> (Was this much during the dream, or preceding the dream?)
> BRF:> Dick I was Awake Eyes And Not Dreaming
OK, so this gets into the dual possibility of 1) seeing something unexplained in the night sky, as well as 2) a vision, which is essentially the same thing, as in "that which is viewed." The real question becomes, "Can it be explained as a sighting of SkyLab?" (as you mention later this was in 1972.)
> BRF:> Dick I was Awake Eyes And Not Dreaming
The Skylab space station launched May 14, 1973, from NASA's Kennedy Space Center by a huge Saturn V launch vehicle --
So it's not the ISS (which occurred *decades* later) and (if you have reported 1972 accurately) is NOT Skylab. However, being as Oklahoma is *relatively* close to the *average* orbital path of *many* man-launched space satellites (not just from the secret military, but *also* from other countries.)
Here's the next step:
As you have written regarding directions in the sky regarding north/south, east and west, let's look at this next section first:
> >> BRF:> "[lo, I] See Two Big Stars Side By Side
> >> Off To The right Of The Moon
> >> A Good Three Hands A Way
> >> About [Middle] In The North Sky"
> >>
> > Dick:> A few preliminary questions: is this from the perspective of the Southern or Northern hemisphere?
>
> BRF:> Dick It Was Northern hemisphere
> The Moon To The East
> The Stars To The West Of the Moon
On that date (8/24/72) in the northern hemisphere (Oklahoma) the moon was so close to the ecliptic plane (the imaginary east-west line of the galaxy across the night sky) that after just checking a chart (on another computer) the position of the moon was ("is") so close to the ecliptic that saying it was in the "northern" or "southern" half of the sky is largely irrelevant: for all *practical* intents and purposes, it was traveling directly across the middle.
(You can check for yourself at https://skyandtelescope.org/interactive-sky-chart but it takes a bit of playing to find the actual "view.")
To be clear, the moon was *barely* in the northern hemisphere of the night sky, and *smack dab in the middle* of the constellation Aquarius, "rising in the east" shortly after sunset.
Focusing in on:
BRF:> "Two Big Stars Side By Side Off To The right Of The Moon"
(That would be to the west of the moon, followed by:)
BRF> "The Moon To The East The Stars To The West Of the Moon"
Sure enough, on that date, shortly after sunset (sunset being one of the best times to fish) the moon would be rising in the east. The only "big stars" would have to be in the constellation of Aquarius itself, as it takes an allowance of increasing the brightness of surrounding stars before anything even remotely begins to "pop" (shine / become noticeable) in that area. Moonrise (FULL moon, age 14 days!) was around 8:05 PM, with twilight ending (darkness beginning) around 8:10 PM.
BRF>
> Kay County
> Oklahoma 74601
> 36.70488054840553, -97.14323862356248
>
> > Dick:> Anything being near the moon (to the right) in the [northern] sky would likely be in the summer (in the northern hemisphere)
> > but I'm uncertain as to how that would play out in the Southern hemisphere (South of the Equator.)
> BRF:> Being Summer August 24, 1972
> >> BRF:> "Then One Star [Moved] away From [the other]
> >> Toward The Moon Who Was Full At The Time
> >> And [Moved] Behind It
> >> To [Not Be Seen afterward]"
> >
> > Dick:> (That last line had to be cleared up in that manner, otherwise, it grammatically had all *sorts* of "holes" in it.)
***OK, new question: the star that moved: had it been stationary (sitting still) in the night sky for any time *before* it was observed to be moving?
> Oklahoma 74601
> 36.70488054840553, -97.14323862356248
>
> > Dick:> Anything being near the moon (to the right) in the [northern] sky would likely be in the summer (in the northern hemisphere)
> > but I'm uncertain as to how that would play out in the Southern hemisphere (South of the Equator.)
> BRF:> Being Summer August 24, 1972
> >> BRF:> "Then One Star [Moved] away From [the other]
> >> Toward The Moon Who Was Full At The Time
> >> And [Moved] Behind It
> >> To [Not Be Seen afterward]"
> >
> > Dick:> (That last line had to be cleared up in that manner, otherwise, it grammatically had all *sorts* of "holes" in it.)
> >> BRF:> "Now Know This
> >> That The Moon And All Stars
> >> But One Was Of The True Night Sky
> >> Only That One Star Was Of The Vision"
> > It is *very* possible for [ANY orbital object] to "disappear* from view depending upon the rotation of the earth with respect to the sun.
> > I've seen [the ISS] "wink out" in the middle of an orbital flight path over my home once upon a time (somewhere within the past 5 years?)
> > because the station had passed into the earth's shadow from the sun.
> > If I'd not been out [deliberately] looking for the station at that time,
> > it would possibly have confused me to no end! Fortunately,
> > I've spotted the station on numerous occasions (before and since.)
> BRF:> Aug 21 US orbiting astronomy observatory Copernicus launched
> I Know It Was Not The Copernicus It was Not Big As
> Jupiter was the Big Star ⚹ And The Vision Star ⚹ Was Just As Big
Jupiter was *half way across* the sky that night.
> > I've spotted the station on numerous occasions (before and since.)
> BRF:> Aug 21 US orbiting astronomy observatory Copernicus launched
> I Know It Was Not The Copernicus It was Not Big As
> Jupiter was the Big Star ⚹ And The Vision Star ⚹ Was Just As Big
> The Full Moon On Thursday, 24 August 1972, 07:21:42 pm
> 50 Years Ago
<snip>
> >> BRF:> "After The Manifest Come To Pass
> >> My Step-Father got up And Walk Over To Me A Said
> >> Look Like The Fish Are Not [Biting] Bait [Tonight]"
> >
> > Dick:> When the fisherman says it's time to turn in, it's time to turn in ✔
> >
> >> BRF:> "In Fishing batting (noun) the action of hitting A Lure"
>
> > In American English, this is referred to as "biting"
> > (like taking repeated bites out of an apple.)
> BRF:> Batting Lure Good For Full Moon
> < https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.cOY54u1M-c2Am_Rr10YbGAHaC5?w=349&h=137&c=7&r=0&o=5&pid=1.7 >
>
> In Okie, It's Just The Play On Words
> Y'ay'a Will Come To Banish Evil LaIa
>
> Like Y'ay'a = n : The Creator or Great Spirit.
> The term Y'aY'a or I'aI'a means Spirit of Spirits.
<snip>
> In Okie, It's Just The Play On Words
> Y'ay'a Will Come To Banish Evil LaIa
>
> Like Y'ay'a = n : The Creator or Great Spirit.
> The term Y'aY'a or I'aI'a means Spirit of Spirits.
Light eliminates darkness, for sure! (Darkness obscures light by some physical means.)
0 new messages