Flying Again...
neo
dream. Some people angered me. With wooden bar in my hand I was flying
in air and not only killed thousands of people but destroyed whole
town. I was seeing ruins of destroyed town below when I was floating
in air. At that time I got lucid. I was flying in air standing on
horizontal wooden bar(stick).
It is mystery. I always get lucid in flying dream without applying any
logic.
cust_support
Didja see the movie "Dogma"? (1999, Kevin Smith, Chris Rock, George
Carlin)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DogmaBethanySloane.jpg
Steve Britt
"neo" <MAT...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1177610187.0...@t38g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
we're trying to compensate for something that we lack in the waking state.
Maybe you're angry right now at a situation you have little or no control
over, so you're dealing with that anger in the dream state.
I'm totally blind and have been so all my life. While I consider myself
well-adjusted, once in a great while I have dreams in which I ride bikes,
row boats, drive cars, and fly airplanes. In a few instances, my body
physically flies. In these dreams, I'm not consciously aware of seeing: what
happens instead is that my hearing is amplified to such an extent that I am
able to detect objects, both stationary and moving, in my surroundings. How
I manage to stay on course, I don't know, but I always get where I'm going.
I think I have these dreams because these are abilities I sometimes wish I
had in my waking life.
>
neo
Steve Britt wrote:
> "neo" <MAT...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1177610187.0...@t38g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> > So after long gap, I had flying dream yesterday. In fact it was deadly
> > dream. Some people angered me. With wooden bar in my hand I was flying
> > in air and not only killed thousands of people but destroyed whole
> > town. I was seeing ruins of destroyed town below when I was floating
> > in air. At that time I got lucid. I was flying in air standing on
> > horizontal wooden bar(stick).
> >
> > It is mystery. I always get lucid in flying dream without applying any
> > logic.
> Neo, when we have dreams like this, I think it's because subconsciously
> we're trying to compensate for something that we lack in the waking state.
> Maybe you're angry right now at a situation you have little or no control
> over, so you're dealing with that anger in the dream state.
> I'm totally blind and have been so all my life.
Will you please explain if you are blind how can you see and type
messages?
Dick Silk -- The Computer Tutor
> I'm totally blind and have been so all my life. While I consider myself
> well-adjusted, once in a great while I have dreams in which I ride bikes,
> row boats, drive cars, and fly airplanes. In a few instances, my body
> physically flies. In these dreams, I'm not consciously aware of seeing: what
> happens instead is that my hearing is amplified to such an extent that I am
> able to detect objects, both stationary and moving, in my surroundings. How
> I manage to stay on course, I don't know, but I always get where I'm going.
> I think I have these dreams because these are abilities I sometimes wish I
> had in my waking life.
As a person blind from birth, I would imagine that you do have hearing
abilities better than the average human. It's just that in dreams, you are
more aware of this ability because your waking mind and body are not
distracting you as much. Dreams are pure "what is." (You know the old bit:
I am, and you are...)
One thought that interests me greatly: you say you have dreams of bicycles,
cars, and planes, even though you have been blind from birth. It would be
interesting to describe these objects to a police sketch artist and see what
is produced as a result, *especially* if you had color in these dreams.
Final thought: what if these are the dreams you are having from another
person's perspective? or from a past life? or simply from beyond the
restraints of your own physiological being? If the *soul* can see, then
perhaps you may learn to see with your soul?
Dick Silk -- The Computer Tutor
> Steve Britt wrote:
>> I'm totally blind and have been so all my life.
>
> Will you please explain if you are blind how can you see and type
> messages?
Obviously, Neo, you've never heard of JAWS or other text-to-speech software.
How do you think Professor Stephen Hawking manages to synthesize speech when
he can barely move more than twitching a muscle?
(Hint: it's called "technology.")
neo
But hawking can see. He is not blind. And although such technology
does exist, I never interacted with any blind person on usenet or
internet.
You will not believe me. Since last 3-4 days I was thinking what color
a person born blind see. It can not be 'black' because black is also
color.
And just when I was thinking over this, I got reply from person who
claim to be blind.
If steve is really born blind, I would like to ask him some question I
always had in my mind.
neo
Dick Silk -- The Computer Tutor wrote:
A born blind person don't have sense of color and hence no visual
dreams. It is scientifically well documented. And to talk about past
life is out of world. If steve is born blind and still describe
objects in colors, I am sure he will get worldwide attention.
Steve Britt
"Dick Silk -- The Computer Tutor" <dick...@antispam.net> wrote in message
news:07KYh.32821$G23...@newsreading01.news.tds.net...
>
Steve Britt
> "Steve Britt" <swimm...@insightbb.com> wrote: <snip>
>> I'm totally blind and have been so all my life. While I consider myself
>> well-adjusted, once in a great while I have dreams in which I ride bikes,
>> row boats, drive cars, and fly airplanes. In a few instances, my body
>> physically flies. In these dreams, I'm not consciously aware of seeing:
>> what happens instead is that my hearing is amplified to such an extent
>> that I am able to detect objects, both stationary and moving, in my
>> surroundings. How I manage to stay on course, I don't know, but I always
>> get where I'm going.
>> I think I have these dreams because these are abilities I sometimes wish
>> I had in my waking life.
>
> As a person blind from birth, I would imagine that you do have hearing
> abilities better than the average human. It's just that in dreams, you
> are more aware of this ability because your waking mind and body are not
> distracting you as much. Dreams are pure "what is." (You know the old
> bit: I am, and you are...)
>
> One thought that interests me greatly: you say you have dreams of
> bicycles, cars, and planes, even though you have been blind from birth.
> It would be interesting to describe these objects to a police sketch
> artist and see what is produced as a result, *especially* if you had color
> in these dreams.
birth (RLF), I have no memory of seeing fully, and therefore can't
incorporate physical vision into my dreams. So I perceive my surroundings
through hearing and touch. Interestingly, I'm not aware of tastes or smells
when I dream; I don't understand why.
>
> Final thought: what if these are the dreams you are having from another
> person's perspective?
or from a past life?
or simply from beyond the
> restraints of your own physiological being?
If the *soul* can see, then
> perhaps you may learn to see with your soul?
You present some interesting thoughts, Dick.
>
>
Steve Britt
offer a viewpoint from my own perspective; I can't speak for someone else.
>
neo
When my eyes are closed or when there is no light, whatever appears
before my both eyes, I call it black color. Do you have any sensation
before your both eyes?
Or is it so that your eyes are not different from skin on our body? I
mean that we can't sense any color through skin on hands, legs etc.
If you don't even experience black color, then you are living in that
world which I can't imagine. Perhaps it is that state in which god or
creator was living initially. Then he somehow imagined colors which we
see now.
It is one of the stape to reach to the source, creation of this
universe.
Steve Britt
left, but not enough to distinguish color. I can hold a flashlight up to my
right eye and turn it on and tell if it's working or not. I don't like to
hold the flashlight up there too long because the light gives me a horrible
headache. I had more light perception when I was three or four years old,
but even then I didn't sense colors or see enough to be able to travel. I
remember chasing shadows when I was outdoors, and being startled when a
camera would flash.
neo
Steve Britt wrote:
-snip-
> > When my eyes are closed or when there is no light, whatever appears
> > before my both eyes, I call it black color. Do you have any sensation
> > before your both eyes?
> Normally, no. I say this because I have a little bit of light perception
> left, but not enough to distinguish color. I can hold a flashlight up to my
> right eye and turn it on and tell if it's working or not. I don't like to
> hold the flashlight up there too long because the light gives me a horrible
> headache. I had more light perception when I was three or four years old,
> but even then I didn't sense colors or see enough to be able to travel. I
> remember chasing shadows when I was outdoors, and being startled when a
> camera would flash.
When the flashlight is OFF, what appears before your eyes is black
color. So at least you know what black color is.
I think that blind person can draw sketches of object they touch. You
can surely draw sketch of hand although you can not color it.
It is not possible that shape of your hand does not 'appear' in your
mind.
Does shape of objects you touch appear in your mind?
Dick Silk -- The Computer Tutor
>
> Steve Britt wrote:
>> I can hold a flashlight up to my
>> right eye and turn it on and tell if it's working or not. I don't like to
>> hold the flashlight up there too long because the light gives me a horrible
>> headache.
> When the flashlight is OFF, what appears before your eyes is black
> color. So at least you know what black color is.
actually, Neo, that is "darkness", not "black" -- not exactly.
> I think that blind person can draw sketches of object they touch. You
> can surely draw sketch of hand although you can not color it.
It might be far easier to trace it than to draw it.
> It is not possible that shape of your hand does not 'appear' in your
> mind.
That is making an assumption, but it is an interesting one.
> Does shape of objects you touch appear in your mind?
One of the Greek philosophers stated that there is, in the imagination, a
perfect circle. Or something to the effect that the idea of a perfect circle
exists, even if one cannot be created in reality.
Neo's questions raise the idea in my mind that a blind person would "see"
images within his / her mind by traces of light. Yes? No?
Dick Silk -- The Computer Tutor
> I use Jaws with a braille display.
??? do the bumps raise up on a strip-like surface? or do you actually create
printouts? The JAWS software I'm familiar with simply synthesizes speech.
I'm also making the effort to clear out as much unnecessary re-quotes as
possible.
Also, I believe Microsoft Windows has a basic text-to-speech function. (Or
used to, way back with Windows 95.)
neo
Dick Silk -- The Computer Tutor wrote:
> news:1177950364.0...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Steve Britt wrote:
> >> I can hold a flashlight up to my
> >> right eye and turn it on and tell if it's working or not. I don't like to
> >> hold the flashlight up there too long because the light gives me a horrible
> >> headache.
>
> > When the flashlight is OFF, what appears before your eyes is black
> > color. So at least you know what black color is.
>
> actually, Neo, that is "darkness", not "black" -- not exactly.
Suppose you have poured lot of green color in swimming pool. Now take
a dip and open eyes. You would see green everywhere.
Likewise when we close eyes or switch off light in night we see
'black' color which is cosmic microwave background radiation and that
fills entire universe.
> > I think that blind person can draw sketches of object they touch. You
> > can surely draw sketch of hand although you can not color it.
>
> It might be far easier to trace it than to draw it.
>
> > It is not possible that shape of your hand does not 'appear' in your
> > mind.
>
> That is making an assumption, but it is an interesting one.
>
> > Does shape of objects you touch appear in your mind?
>
> One of the Greek philosophers stated that there is, in the imagination, a
> perfect circle. Or something to the effect that the idea of a perfect circle
> exists, even if one cannot be created in reality.
>
> Neo's questions raise the idea in my mind that a blind person would "see"
> images within his / her mind by traces of light. Yes? No?
I am still wondering.
dr.klump
I find this facinating,as I have hearing acuity deafness(i cannot
filter sound,and make a distinct sound stand out)Like listening to
verry complex music,the person singing,becomes the notes they are
singing,instead of distinct words)I can hear the music,but i cannot
tell the difference between a musical instrument and a human voice,I
can usually guess because the human voice is infinitly more
complex,with nuances of sound that a musical instrument could not
make.these are perseptions that i have developed because of
my'difference'. I also use Lyrics .com to find out the words to songs
so that i can apprieciate the music better.My first cousin is 'Legally
Blind" and we have had many conversations on being different.Elinor(my
cousin)walks down the street and whistles a little tune as she
walks.she has developed a stronger sence of sound than what 'normal'
people would utilize,Like a Bat with its sonar can avoid hitting
objects in its way,she can "see' with sound,where buildings are and
when someone is approching her.Both of us have developed extrodinarly
sensitive sence of scent,with my eyes closed,I can tell you what the
natural color a womans hair is:blondes smell of a tropical beach with
sand,redheads have the scent of sunshine right after the rain,and
bruettes have the scent of furtile earth,like in your garden when you
touch the earth with your hands,The Darker the woman is,the heavier
the scent.someones ethnic background can be accuaratly "guestimated"by
the food the person has ingested.the more meat a person eats,the
stronger their scent.vegitarians have a sweet smell verry much like
small children,vegans have virtually no scent. aged persons have a
light flowerlike scent,and children and babies have a clean sweet
smell.purfumes and the scent of makeup,can determen a persons
attractiveness. also you can guess a persons monitary wealth by their
purfume or colone, by how expensive it is.you can also tell if a
person has children,transference of scent,or in an intimate
relationship,same way.with men their ancestory can be more strongly
determend by scent if you wish to test this,for men,your urine in the
morning has an exceptionally strong scent. Men also carry a heavyer
bone structure that is more closely related to genetic ancestry.
(possibly because women in the past were taken as 'Booty'during
wartimes)it has become more atvantagous for women to be attractive to
a larger base of men.
I am also an artist,and color does radiate to a sence of touch.if you
lay out swatches of cloth in the sunshine the sun helps to make each
color 'feel' different. elinor thought it was so cool,she could tell
colors apart by touch.I had to tell her which colors she was
touching,but from that point onward,she could touch someones sleeve
and she would say'that is a lovely blue jacket"and people were
amazed,she could tell the difference. Both of us can recognize someone
we know well by thier scent. Part of an 'Imprinting process'I suppose.
Here is another way of 'seeing things' when you touch a persons
face,you can 'see' differences,like phrenology(the reading of the
shape of someone skull) elinor made the observation that I have a
masculine face,because of the heavy bone structure and intence thought
"bumps" in my forhead,she is right. I do not have a feminine face,I'm
a 'Hansom Woman" I could be wrong,but I think from my own personal
observations that a person who is blind would have a sence of space
verry much like a sculpter looking at a block of clay,at first it
would seem like people and objects would be like a square of clay,and
as the person or object comes to be known through other
observations,that clay is cut away so that in the end,you have a
pritty acurate idea of what something or someone'looks' like.
I really like the cover of Stevie Wonders album"skelitons"that shows
stevie,holding a cast of a face.so he has a 'Picture Gallery"of his
family in the background,and a raised picture of his own.Or that verry
famouse car commercial that shows Ray Charles driving a car in the
salt flats(nothing for him to hit for miles of flat lands)he's having
a blast and laughing like crazy.There are many artists who are
blind.just because one of our sences is missing,sometimes the others
become more acute to cope with it.perseption is all part of
observation and observation to intellegents.
Oh and before I forget,most new mac computers have a text- to-
voice,and voice -to- text options built right into them,like closed
captioning,on tv for people like me.tecnology has helped alot of
people lead full and enlightened lives.good for you steve,try that
colors in the sunshine test,you will be amazed.
neo
It took millions of years to develope senses. And your cousin did it
in just few months or few years?
Color sensation depend upon wavelength of EM waves. Do you want to say
that your cousin can measure wavelength of EM wave originating from
cloth just by touch?
I am sorry but I don't get it. It is understandable if you have
developed strong sense of hearing, smell and touch. But telling color
just by touch is out of world.
Perhaps I am misinterpreting what you are saying. I will be thankful
to you if you explain it further.
dr.klump
different colors,obsorb,or repel the light at different levels that
can be felt(ever sat in a black car with no airconditioning on a hot
summer day?same thing.)People who are blind usually have more
sensitivity in their fingertips(thats why they can read braile) it's
not so much that other people can't do this,we just have other sences
that tell us colors,so we have never evolved,or needed to learn these
things,and ignore them.with someone who has no sight,or limited
sight,the sensitivity to other modes of perseption become more
keen.she (my cousin)cannot do this in buildings with artifical
lighting,only in sunlight. perhaps it has something to do with
ultraviolet light.try this experiment,its really cool.close your
eyes,clear your mind,then hold your palms toward your body.bring your
hands toward your chest,eyes still closed.at a particular point you
will feel energy of your body start to make your hands,tingle.you will
also become aware of how much heat is radiating from your body,even
though your hands are not touching your body.colors radiate at
different levels.
because as an artist i understand a great deal about color,I know that
if you change the sorce of light,your perseption of color changes.
have you ever seen a woman with hideous makeup that looks anything but
natural.that is why most painters prefer natural lighting when they
are painting,the colors remain as 'true' as they can regardless of
where the painting in the end is hung.If you put on a pair of rose
colored glasses and look at the sky,the sky doesn't change color,your
perseption does. there is no spoon young jedi.
dr.klump
blind child in one of my art classes)
I was the only teacher who had ever gotton this child to participate
in art class.
If someone has limited vision(but is still legaly blind)they are
capable of of streagthing what vison they do have,by looking through a
tube for long periods of time,my pupil hated doing this,so i made her
a stained glass kelioscope(because the colours are more true and will
stay that way forever,or at least if not left in the sunshine(red
fades very fast in sunlight,like a coca-cola sign)instead of crying
when she had to use the tubes to streanthen her eyes,she loved the
kelioscope,because she could see the colors,and would play for hours
with it.to teach myself how she must feel about being blind,I would
close my eyes and draw pictures,the other students then would
laugh,and they understood why it was harder for her to draw.I'm a
professional artist and the scketches i did were not as complex nor as
'good' as my young student.and strangly enough,had a rightward
bent,but still recognizable for what they were.but I have never been
blind,and have a strong sence of space.every once in a while art
galleries will allow a class or group of visually impaired people,to
come into the gallery,and touch the sculptures,(always with special
permissions of course)I like the artist Henry Moore,his sculptures are
made to be 'tactile'.
neo
1. She might be able to distinguish between broad spectrum of visible
EM waves and tell colors. But that is somewhat computer can do.
Computer can calculate wavelength and programmer can assign 'words'
like red, blue, green. Computer can calculate wavelength and flash
word like 'red' on screen. That does not mean that computer is
'seeing' red color.
Photon itself does not have color. Vibrating molecules in air does not
have sound. Energy associated with molecules does not have taste or
smell. And electrical signal propagating across neurons itself does
not have sense of touch, pain, pleasure.
I believe, 'sensation' of color, sound, touch, taste, smell can not be
explained just by physics. It is something only conscious entity can
'imagine'. And the conscious entity who keeps our heart beating,
digest food, fight viruses in body, control auto movements like
walking, that same entity is responsible for 'imagination' of color,
sound, touch, taste, smell.
And I simply can't call it just 'brain' and look at neuroscientists.
Dick Silk -- The Computer Tutor
>
> Dick Silk -- The Computer Tutor wrote:
>> actually, Neo, that is "darkness", not "black" -- not exactly.
>
> Suppose you have poured lot of green color in swimming pool. Now take
> a dip and open eyes. You would see green everywhere.
>
> Likewise when we close eyes or switch off light in night we see
> 'black' color which is cosmic microwave background radiation and that
> fills entire universe.
Sorry, Neo, but I do not see "black" with my eyes shut. Too many phosphorenes
in the eyelid give it a very dark, deep purple shade.