QUESTIONS FOR MERILYN TUNNESHENDE (or TOWNSEND...???)
Toltec
Mac...@ix.netcom.com said, via telepathy, that your real name is Merilyn
Townsend, and that you live in Madison Alabama. Is that TRUE? I remember
when you were tossed out of the Westwood workshop during your energetic
crisis that your name tag said M. Townsend; i, i, i wondered if you were
*faking* it. Are you feeling ok now? Did you ever get over it? Are you
selling it, too?
Now, are you ever going to have a workshop down in Mobile? And if so,
will Time magazine take your picture?
Oh, and you claim to have received a grant from the National Endowment
for the Humanities to research Mayan culture, BUT, you know, I looked at
the NEH annual reports and did not see anything awarded in '92 (as you
said in the MB interview) '93 or '94. Nada. Zip. Nothing. Could you tell
the public through which academic or state institution were able to get
the award?? I hardly believe that you even went to college, given the
way you write, but, hey! They let anybody into colleges these days, even
if it is for just a semester.
These are the only questions i have don't bother contacting me via
e-mail just have one of your lackeys post here at the adc where things
have been very boring lately; but i'd prefer that you did some of the
'dirty' work yourself, for a change.
don Pequeno
> Toltec <tol...@IB.com> wrote:
>These are the only questions i have
Merilyn has publicly accused Carlos of contributing to
a person's death. I want to know the name of that person.
If Merilyn Townshend will not now give that name publicly,
she is clearly a scam artist of the lowest caliber.
I already know that she does not have the energy for this.
Where are you Merilyn?
No spine, little girl?
You said someone died.
All I see are your lame lackeys.
...and I see that they do not have the strength to deal with me.
The last one you sent cracked like a little nut.
How about you give it a try?
Come on, little one ... let's play...
Or are you afraid... again.
See ya, wannabe
> don't bother contacting me via e-mail just have one of your lackeys
> post here at the adc where things have been very boring lately;
> but i'd prefer that you did some of the 'dirty' work yourself, for a change.
I would not bet on it...
...but one of her kids might accuse me of "harrasement" again!
I'm not sure what that is, but I'm pretty sure I did not do it!
HO HO HO HO HO HO :-D
They are sooo funny when they crack, aren't they? :-D
don Pequeno
Douglas P. Ratcliff
don Pequeno <donpe...@aol.com> wrote in article
<5lu44s$t...@camel4.mindspring.com>...
[snip]
> No spine, little girl?
>
> You said someone died.
>
> All I see are your lame lackeys.
> ...and I see that they do not have the strength to deal with me.
>
> The last one you sent cracked like a little nut.
>
> How about you give it a try?
>
request, what would the other nagual's say :-)
Douglas P.
"You no mess with Lo Wang!"
--Lo Wang
don Pequeno
>> Where are you Merilyn?
>> No spine, little girl?
>> You said someone died.
>> All I see are your lame lackeys.
>> ...and I see that they do not have the strength to deal with me.
>> The last one you sent cracked like a little nut.
>> How about you give it a try?
>"Douglas P. Ratcliff" <doug...@itis.com> wrote:
> But dP, she's a nagual!
> she can't just make herself available at your
> request, what would the other nagual's say :-)
>Douglas P.
They might say something like:
"Monkey see, monkey do."
See ya, Merilyn!
You are the queen of wannabes.
Hope you can come out and play,
but I'm sure you can't muster the energy.
BTW... buy your guys a damn dictionary, will ya?
It is spelled: harassment
not
harrasement
Of course, a nagual can't bo bethered woth spulleng!
HO HO HO HO HO HO :-D
Got any energy today Merilyn?
A nod's as good as a wink to a blind jaguar.
dP
Grif
don Pequeno wrote:
>
> > Toltec <tol...@IB.com> wrote:
>
> >These are the only questions i have
>
> Merilyn has publicly accused Carlos of contributing to
> a person's death. I want to know the name of that person.
>
> If Merilyn Townshend will not now give that name publicly,
> she is clearly a scam artist of the lowest caliber.
>
> I already know that she does not have the energy for this.
>
> No spine, little girl?
>
> You said someone died.
>
> All I see are your lame lackeys.
> ...and I see that they do not have the strength to deal with me.
>
> The last one you sent cracked like a little nut.
>
> How about you give it a try?
>
>
> Or are you afraid... again.
>
> See ya, wannabe
>
> > don't bother contacting me via e-mail just have one of your lackeys
> > post here at the adc where things have been very boring lately;
> > but i'd prefer that you did some of the 'dirty' work yourself, for a change.
>
> I would not bet on it...
>
> ...but one of her kids might accuse me of "harrasement" again!
>
> I'm not sure what that is, but I'm pretty sure I did not do it!
>
>
>
> don Pequeno
Correct me if I'm wrong here.....
but doesn't impeccability dictate that we have nothing to defend within
ourselves or our world?
if so why defend Carlos?...is he that important to you?
Grif
don Pequeno
>> don Pequeno wrote:
>> Merilyn has publicly accused Carlos of contributing to
>> a person's death. I want to know the name of that person.
>> If Merilyn Townshend will not now give that name publicly,
>> she is clearly a scam artist of the lowest caliber.
>> I already know that she does not have the energy for this.
>> Where are you Merilyn?
>> No spine, little girl?
>> You said someone died.
>> All I see are your lame lackeys.
>> ...and I see that they do not have the strength to deal with me.
>> The last one you sent cracked like a little nut.
>> How about you give it a try?
>> Come on, little one ... let's play...
>> Or are you afraid... again.
>> See ya, wannabe
>> They are sooo funny when they crack, aren't they? :-D
>> don Pequeno
> Grif <gr...@innocent.com> wrote:
>Correct me if I'm wrong here.....
You are wrong. :-D
> but doesn't impeccability dictate that we have nothing
> to defend within ourselves or our world?
Impeccability is the best use of energy.
A Nagual has no points to defend.
I am NOT claiming that I am a Nagual.
> if so why defend Carlos?
Another Groucho Marxism, eh?
Howso am I doing this "defending" thing?
I am *attacking* the vapidity of those who come to adc
with their own agendas. For example, clearly Merilyn
only posted here to help her fill up the seminars she
is doing for money. She has once again walked away,
after having OTHERS do her bidding.
I HATE the weak link. She is pathetic.
If she comes here, directly or through her lackeys,
I will blast her for the wimp and wannabe that she is.
This has not much to do with Carlos, except that just
happens to be her fixation now. She has had others,
which you would know if you had checked her out...
but you were busy judging *my* actions!
Poor choice, without the info...
I am showing the effect of the Flyers.
She is exhibit M.
> ...is he that important to you?
>Grif
No, he is not... but his work is.
Is she that important to you? ;-)
See ya
don P
Grif
don Pequeno wrote:
*snip*
> Impeccability is the best use of energy.
> A Nagual has no points to defend.
> I am NOT claiming that I am a Nagual.
I never said you claimed that.....never even implied it.....feeling a
little "defensive" are we?
> I am *attacking* the vapidity of those who come to adc
> with their own agendas. For example, clearly Merilyn
> only posted here to help her fill up the seminars she
> is doing for money. She has once again walked away,
> after having OTHERS do her bidding.
>
> I HATE the weak link. She is pathetic.
Hatred for someone you have never even met seems a little silly.
>
> If she comes here, directly or through her lackeys,
> I will blast her for the wimp and wannabe that she is.
>
> This has not much to do with Carlos, except that just
> happens to be her fixation now. She has had others,
> which you would know if you had checked her out...
well, well, well, one small posting....no where in it did express any
support for her, would it shock you to know that I had checked her out,
and made my own mind up about her? I merely alluded to the fact that
Defending himself is Carlos' job, not yours (unless of course you get a
check from Cleargreen,which at this point I'm assuming you don't...a
dangerours assumption perhaps.)
> > ...is he that important to you?
>
> >Grif
>
> No, he is not... but his work is.
>
> Is she that important to you? ;-)
Nope......I wouldn't give a fuck if she dropped off the face of the
earth, she does seem to have filled a place in your heart (one of
hatred).
Grif
Grif
don Pequeno wrote:
>
> > Grif <gr...@innocent.com> wrote:
>
> Grif, I am only going to play with you at this point.
> You bring nothing but generalizations to the table.
>
> "A place in my heart", my ass!
>
> Look at what Thornally did.
>
> Look at what others do when I say that she is weak.
>
> Look at what YOU did.
>
> Merilyn drew a line in the sand, not me.
> If you want to side with her, so be it.
> You will be exhibit Mb. ;-)
>
> You did not say HOW I was "defending" Carlos.
> Until you do, you are hereby Shitcanned,
> to be read and played with only for fun.
>
> Good luck.
> don P
quel domage......
I'm hurt, no really.....
Your self-importance knows no bounds.
Grif
Pete Ross
On Sun, 25 May 1997 12:39:34 -0700, Grif <gr...@innocent.com> wrote:
>don Pequeno wrote:
>*snip*
>> Impeccability is the best use of energy.
>> A Nagual has no points to defend.
>> I am NOT claiming that I am a Nagual.
I have waited a long time for this statement. Since you are not a
Nagual, how in the hell can he hope to ever ascertain if someone is a
Nagual or not? I think that only a Nagual can detect the authenticity
of a Nagual.
>I never said you claimed that.....never even implied it.....feeling a
>little "defensive" are we?
Sounds like he is VERY defensive here.
>
>> I am *attacking* the vapidity of those who come to adc
>> with their own agendas. For example, clearly Merilyn
>> only posted here to help her fill up the seminars she
>> is doing for money.
Hohohohoho. And Tensegrity isn't?
She has once again walked away,
>> after having OTHERS do her bidding.
Don Pequeno is so jealous of anyone who CLAIMS to be a Nagual, or IS a
Nagual that he can't stand it. Truth is truth, and bull crap is bull
crap. I think dp is full of the latter.
>> I HATE the weak link. She is pathetic.
Don Pequeno is pathetic.
>Hatred for someone you have never even met seems a little silly.
Not only silly, but uneducated, an uninformed. He didn't even bother
to find out WHAT or WHO she really is. His rantings seem very
inane, and unintelligent to me.
>>
>> If she comes here, directly or through her lackeys,
>> I will blast her for the wimp and wannabe that she is.
dp is the wannabe. Sheesh; his egotistical lack of perception in the
luminous body shows through every time he mentions her.
>> This has not much to do with Carlos, except that just
>> happens to be her fixation now. She has had others,
>> which you would know if you had checked her out...
So what? Everything that dp accuses Marilyn of he is guilty of
himself, only more so. He reminds me of a small child who screams
"Mama,; mama; I hate you, 'cause you won't let me have some ice
cream!" Is this what this group is turning into? Perhaps this is why
I haven't posted here in a long time; such a waste of time to listen
to dp's incessant rantings.
>well, well, well, one small posting....no where in it did express any
>support for her, would it shock you to know that I had checked her out,
>and made my own mind up about her? I merely alluded to the fact that
>Defending himself is Carlos' job, not yours (unless of course you get a
>check from Cleargreen,which at this point I'm assuming you don't...a
>dangerours assumption perhaps.)
Perhaps!
>
>> > ...is he that important to you?
>>
>> >Grif
>>
>> No, he is not... but his work is.
>>
>> Is she that important to you? ;-)
>
>Nope......I wouldn't give a fuck if she dropped off the face of the
>earth, she does seem to have filled a place in your heart (one of
>hatred).
Yes, Grif. I think dp derives energy from hatred. There are those
who can do this, but I think it is so banal.
>Grif
Pete
don Pequeno
>>> don Pequeno wrote:
>>> I am NOT claiming that I am a Nagual.
> pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
> I have waited a long time for this statement.
> Since you are not a Nagual,
I said "I am NOT claiming..."
This was to contrast with you 2 follymeisters,
who CLAIMED you were Naguals.
If I had meant "I am NOT..."
I would have chosen those words correctly.
You know, for a purported Nagual,
you sure are unaware!
> how in the hell can he hope to ever ascertain if someone is a
>Nagual or not? I think that only a Nagual can detect the
> authenticity of a Nagual.
I see that you are lonely and Merilyn is weak.
I do not care if you are anything else,
because I seek no such old-style allegiances,
as you so clearly do.
Furthermore, Pete... according to your rather odd theory,
you should be able to tell one way or another, yet ...
" I have waited a long time for this statement."
Then why would you be waiting for my comment?
Are you unable to tell if I am a double being?
Perhaps you should make a checklist of clues!
...and why do you care so?
Why, if you are so strong, do you see me as the
one to knock off the top of the hill... so to speak?
Perhaps because I work with my self-importance,
while you deny yours.
You are no Nagual.
You are a Flyermind.
>>> I am *attacking* the vapidity of those who come to adc
>>> with their own agendas. For example, clearly Merilyn
>>> only posted here to help her fill up the seminars she
>>> is doing for money.
> Hohohohoho. And Tensegrity isn't?
... "*attacking* the vapidity of those who come
to adc with their own agendas" ?
No, to my knowledge, Tensegrity is not doing that... ;-)
> She has once again walked away,
>>> after having OTHERS do her bidding.
Pete, if you are going to play, at least take the time
to get the delimiters the same for a single quote.
I wrote that in the same post.
How are people supposed to follow this
"Days of our Sorceric Lives" HardSoap Opera
if you can't keep this stuff straight, because you are so
angry that you cannot take time to proofread your vitriole.
> Don Pequeno is so jealous of anyone who CLAIMS to be a Nagual,
> or IS a Nagual that he can't stand it. Truth is truth, and bull crap
> is bull crap. I think dp is full of the latter.
What, are you some kinda Crapologist? :-D
>>> I HATE the weak link. She is pathetic.
> Don Pequeno is pathetic.
I'm rubber... you're glue! :ş
>>Hatred for someone you have never even met seems a little silly.
>Not only silly, but uneducated, an uninformed. He didn't even bother
>to find out WHAT or WHO she really is. His rantings seem very
>inane, and unintelligent to me.
Have we ever met, Pete?
Yet you have posted HOW MANY remarks agianst me?
...with little to no sense of humor, but a large sense of rumor! ;-)
You don't hate me, do you?
Please don't hate me "Mr. Nagual"!
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA :-D
I hate the weak link.
I hate it when it is my self, your self, or her self.
>>> If she comes here, directly or through her lackeys,
>>> I will blast her for the wimp and wannabe that she is.
>dp is the wannabe. Sheesh; his egotistical lack of perception in the
>luminous body shows through every time he mentions her.
Wookin' po nub in aw da wong pwaces! ;-)
>>> This has not much to do with Carlos, except that just
>>> happens to be her fixation now. She has had others,
>>> which you would know if you had checked her out...
>So what? Everything that dp accuses Marilyn of he is guilty of
>himself, only more so.
Care to be more specific?
I certainly do not recall saying I am the Nagual Woman,
only more so! HO HO HO HO HO HO :-D
Perhaps you could find that passage for your fans.
> He reminds me of a small child who screams "Mama,; mama;
> I hate you, 'cause you won't let me have some ice cream!"
> Is this what this group is turning into? Perhaps this is why
> I haven't posted here in a long time; such a waste of time to listen
> to dp's incessant rantings.
Then why do you do so?
You have not shown the strength to turn away...
isn't that interesting?
You left because we laughed at you... not just me, Pete.
You come back because... well... :-D
>>well, well, well, one small posting....no where in it did express any
>>support for her, would it shock you to know that I had checked her out,
>>and made my own mind up about her?
And what about her did you check out?
Her own interviews and posts?
How about that NEH stuff... did you look closely?
Did you even bother to surf the NEH site,
and find that she is not listed?
How about her missionary work with the Mayans?
Who sponsored that?
Did you check her out as Tunneshende or Townsend?
>> I merely alluded to the fact that Defending himself is Carlos' job,
>> not yours (unless of course you get a check from Cleargreen,
>> which at this point I'm assuming you don't...a dangerours assumption perhaps.)
All assumptions are dangerous when dealing with sorcery.
>Perhaps!
Why don't y'all ask them?
They will laugh themselves silly!
>>> > ...is he that important to you?
>>> No, he is not... but his work is.
>>> Is she that important to you? ;-)
>>Nope......I wouldn't give a fuck if she dropped off the face of the
>>earth, she does seem to have filled a place in your heart (one of
>>hatred).
> Yes, Grif. I think dp derives energy from hatred.
> There are those who can do this, but I think it is so banal.
You think an awful lot, Pete!
I suggest you stop, and soon.
dP
don Pequeno
Slip not
**********
Be not like a cord unto me,
nor shrouds of fixation
setting the masts of culture,
holding the sails of reason.
Cast off the bindings,
navigators of infinity.
The winds of change
fill the sails of will.
__
dP
Daniel Murray
Pete Ross wrote:
>Is this what this group is turning into? Perhaps this is why
> I haven't posted here in a long time; such a waste of time to listen
> to dp's incessant rantings.
peetledidee, such a long time was about what? two or three days?
You're a clownster, pete....
dp murray
(uh ohhhhhhhhh.... it's that dP dp Dp paranoia once again causing
pee-tee's squirty drizzle)...... uhhhhhohhhhhh dp sorta rhymes with pt
and that stands for pocket pool, if pool was spelled with a t.
Pete Ross
On Mon, 26 May 1997 04:15:02 GMT, donpe...@aol.com (don Pequeno)
wrote:
>>>> don Pequeno wrote:
>>>> I am NOT claiming that I am a Nagual.
>
>> pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
>> I have waited a long time for this statement.
>> Since you are not a Nagual,
>
> I said "I am NOT claiming..."
Ok, dp. Let me be more specific. I don't think you are a Nagual, nor
do I think you would know one if he bit you in the ass. Is that clear
enough for you; just to get my INTENT straight?
> This was to contrast with you 2 follymeisters,
> who CLAIMED you were Naguals.
Well, since you ARENT A NAGUAL, and only Naguals can even tell if
someone is a Nagual or not, you will never really even know if I am a
Nagual or not. That is what I believe.
>> how in the hell can he hope to ever ascertain if someone is a
>>Nagual or not? I think that only a Nagual can detect the
>> authenticity of a Nagual.
>
> I see that you are lonely and Merilyn is weak.
Can you SEE dp? Can you really? Blathering does not prove anything.
You have an opinion. Big deal. Everyone in here has an opinion.
Your's is just another one, not the end-all, cure-all, or know-all, as
you would like to have others believe. I can see through your facade.
> I do not care if you are anything else,
> because I seek no such old-style allegiances,
> as you so clearly do.
I don't seek any allegiances at all. You are confused. I seek
authenticity, which I don't see in you.
> Furthermore, Pete... according to your rather odd theory,
> you should be able to tell one way or another, yet ...
> " I have waited a long time for this statement."
Not for me, you arrogant wannabe. To UNCONFUSE some of the people who
read this news group, who seem hypnotized by your contrived display of
power.
Again, I will say it clearly. I think you are NOT a Nagual, and anyone
who thinks you are is brain-dead. NOW am I clear enough for you?
I have known from the beginning that you were not a Nagual. You
thrive on negative attention, and you have some ability in mass
hypnosis. So do many people. Some of my in-laws are like that, but I
sure as hell don't think they are Naguals!
> Then why would you be waiting for my comment?
> Are you unable to tell if I am a double being?
> Perhaps you should make a checklist of clues!
You are a double-whammy hypnotist like Kreskin, but he isn't a Nagual
either!
> ...and why do you care so?
> Why, if you are so strong, do you see me as the
> one to knock off the top of the hill... so to speak?
I am tired of hypnosis. I see it in TV religion; I see it in
commercials; and I see it in you. I have read plenty of books on
hypnosis, and you fit into that category. Your derision of new
people who don't let you read scripture verbatum, not allowing for any
individual interpretation at all (in the CC books, and in the concept
of metaphysics in general) is a cute little trick to suck up followers
like a vacuum cleaner. I feel sorry for those who are taken in by
you; that is why. Perhaps I shouldn't; perhaps I should let them go
on in their lives and be hypnotized into thinking that there is no
alternative to CC; no alternative to sorcery; no alternative to the
conventional Nagualism. I just don't have the heart to let these
people think there is no other point of view. There are many SEERS,
and mystics, and metaphysicians who know at least as much as what
DJ taught, who have never heard of Carlos Castaneda.
You have no comprehension of how strong I am. I mainly dislike
arguing with you because it wastes TIME. It also gives you the
negative energy that you so greatly crave, which I hate doing.
> Perhaps because I work with my self-importance,
> while you deny yours.
Work with your self-importance? You abuse it, and
claim this of others. You are a hypocrite.
> You are no Nagual.
> It takes one to know one, dp. And you ain't one.
>
>>>> I am *attacking* the vapidity of those who come to adc
>>>> with their own agendas.
For example, clearly Merilyn
>>>> only posted here to help her fill up the seminars she
>>>> is doing for money.
>> Hohohohoho. And Tensegrity isn't?
>
>> She has once again walked away,
>>>> after having OTHERS do her bidding.
>
> Pete, if you are going to play, at least take the time
> to get the delimiters the same for a single quote.
> I wrote that in the same post.
Big twitch. You just know how to insult, and play games. You are a
fraud. You always refer to "the game" which apparently is all you
know. You play infantile semantic games that mean nothing.
> How are people supposed to follow this
> "Days of our Sorceric Lives" HardSoap Opera
> if you can't keep this stuff straight, because you are so
> angry that you cannot take time to proofread your vitriole.
Look, I am not angry because you are a fraud. I just think you are a
fraud. Simple. Clear. Even you can understand this.
>> Don Pequeno is so jealous of anyone who CLAIMS to be a Nagual,
>> or IS a Nagual that he can't stand it. Truth is truth, and bull crap
>> is bull crap. I think dp is full of the latter.
>
> What, are you some kinda Crapologist? :-D
>When I see crap, hear crap, and smell crap, I usually conclude that it is crap.
>>>> I HATE the weak link. She is pathetic.
>> Don Pequeno is pathetic.
>
> I'm rubber... you're glue! :ş
Get your crap off of my shoe!
>>>Hatred for someone you have never even met seems a little silly.
>>Not only silly, but uneducated, an uninformed. He didn't even bother
>>to find out WHAT or WHO she really is. His rantings seem very
>>inane, and unintelligent to me.
>
> Have we ever met, Pete?
Don't you know?
> Yet you have posted HOW MANY remarks agianst me?
> ...with little to no sense of humor, but a large sense of rumor! ;-)
Rumor? I am going by your words, not rumor.
> You don't hate me, do you?
>Why would I hate a fraud who lives on negative attention?
Anyway, hate is for little minds.
> Please don't hate me "Mr. Nagual"!
> HA HA HA HA HA HA HA :-D
> You put too much importance on yourself. Hate is not one
of my emotions.
> I hate the weak link.
Only the uneducated, or uninformed hate. One who has
seen the luminous body does not feel hate. Strange you
don't know this.
> I hate it when it is my self, your self, or her self.
>
>>>> If she comes here, directly or through her lackeys,
>>>> I will blast her for the wimp and wannabe that she is.
>
>>dp is the wannabe. Sheesh; his egotistical lack of perception in the
>>luminous body shows through every time he mentions her.
>
> Wookin' po nub in aw da wong pwaces! ;-)
>Now, now, dp; temper temper!
>>>> This has not much to do with Carlos, except that just
>>>> happens to be her fixation now. She has had others,
>>>> which you would know if you had checked her out...
>
>>So what? Everything that dp accuses Marilyn of he is guilty of
>>himself, only more so.
>
> Care to be more specific?
I think I already covered it above, dp.
> I certainly do not recall saying I am the Nagual Woman,
> only more so! HO HO HO HO HO HO :-D
>Are you really this dense? If so, I guess I overestimated
you. Everyone else knew what I meant.
>
>> He reminds me of a small child who screams "Mama,; mama;
>> I hate you, 'cause you won't let me have some ice cream!"
>> Is this what this group is turning into? Perhaps this is why
>> I haven't posted here in a long time; such a waste of time to listen
>> to dp's incessant rantings.
>
> Then why do you do so?
>I already covered this above.
> You have not shown the strength to turn away...
> isn't that interesting?
>Strength? Because I hope a few people wake up before they are
caught up in mass hypnosis for life? There is nothing I need from
you.
> You left because we laughed at you... not just me, Pete.
>Your old timer cult click, perhaps. Some of the ones who
you have hypnotized to lick your boots. Wow, I am really
offended! When someone has almost no power at all,
their laughter means very little. You don't know me at all,
do you?
>
>>>well, well, well, one small posting....no where in it did express any
>>>support for her, would it shock you to know that I had checked her out,
>>>and made my own mind up about her?
>
>
> How about that NEH stuff... did you look closely?
> Did you even bother to surf the NEH site,
> and find that she is not listed?
>
> How about her missionary work with the Mayans?
> Who sponsored that?
>
> Did you check her out as Tunneshende or Townsend?
>
>>> I merely alluded to the fact that Defending himself is Carlos' job,
>>> not yours (unless of course you get a check from Cleargreen,
>>> which at this point I'm assuming you don't...a dangerours assumption perhaps.)
>
> All assumptions are dangerous when dealing with sorcery.
>
>>Perhaps!
>
> Why don't y'all ask them?
> They will laugh themselves silly!
>
>>>> > ...is he that important to you?
>
>>>> No, he is not... but his work is.
>>>> Is she that important to you? ;-)
>
>>>Nope......I wouldn't give a fuck if she dropped off the face of the
>>>earth, she does seem to have filled a place in your heart (one of
>>>hatred).
>
>> Yes, Grif. I think dp derives energy from hatred.
>> There are those who can do this, but I think it is so banal.
>
> You think an awful lot, Pete!
Gee, thanks for the compliment.
> I suggest you stop, and soon.
>Or what? Are you going to cry?
> dP
pr
>
Pete Ross
On Mon, 26 May 1997 06:43:52 GMT, donpe...@aol.com (don Pequeno)
wrote:
>
Reverberation
--------------------------
Stop the redundant
Squalor of antiquity,
Shrouded in mystery,
Of false gods verbosity,
Held too long for intention
To give them any dimension.
Open the way for resonance,
The key to quintessence,
Of man's generation,
Vibrating in it's retention,
Of our inner dimension,
Like the moon in illumination.
pr
---------
>
Coyote
Daniel Murray <dpmu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Pete Ross wrote:
>
>>Is this what this group is turning into? Perhaps this is why
>> I haven't posted here in a long time; such a waste of time to listen
>> to dp's incessant rantings.
>
>peetledidee, such a long time was about what? two or three days?
>
>You're a clownster, pete....
>
>dp murray
>(uh ohhhhhhhhh.... it's that dP dp Dp paranoia once again causing
>pee-tee's squirty drizzle)...... uhhhhhohhhhhh dp sorta rhymes with pt
>and that stands for pocket pool, if pool was spelled with a t.
Hey, Daniel, I think I'm gonna have to stop reading your posts while
I'm eating breakfast. Kinda puts a warrior off his cornflakes, all
that execretory stuff you've been coming up with lately...
BTW, how's that ADC Babes calendar coming on? I can see it now...
January's Brandy in her belly-dancing costume, and February's Brandy
in her martial arts gear, and March is Brandy in her Native American
getup, and April's Brandy in her Tensegrity shorts...
Come on, Daniel, get on with it!!!
"Coyote"
PS How was the golf?
Pete Ross
On Mon, 26 May 1997 11:54:58 GMT, coyote-...@bigfoot.com (Coyote)
wrote:
>Daniel Murray <dpmu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>Pete Ross wrote:
>>
>>>Is this what this group is turning into? Perhaps this is why
>>> I haven't posted here in a long time; such a waste of time to listen
>>> to dp's incessant rantings.
>>
such a long time was about what? two or three days?
I think about 2 weeks, Danny Boy.
>>You're a clownster, pete....
If you came back on this, you must have considered yourself one of
the "old timers". Don't flatter yourself. I don't give you that much
credit, Troll.
>>dp murray
>>(uh ohhhhhhhhh.... it's that dP dp Dp paranoia once again causing
>>pee-tee's squirty drizzle)...... uhhhhhohhhhhh dp sorta rhymes with pt
>>and that stands for pocket pool, if pool was spelled with a t.
That's it; hang together like a pack of hyenas. Considering the
source. You have the imagination of a dry sponge. Get it?
>Hey, Daniel, I think I'm gonna have to stop reading your posts while
>I'm eating breakfast. Kinda puts a warrior off his cornflakes, all
>that execretory stuff you've been coming up with lately...
Hehehe.
>BTW, how's that ADC Babes calendar coming on? I can see it now...
>January's Brandy in her belly-dancing costume, and February's Brandy
>in her martial arts gear, and March is Brandy in her Native American
>getup, and April's Brandy in her Tensegrity shorts...
>
>Come on, Daniel, get on with it!!!
>
>"Coyote"
>
>PS How was the golf?
>
pr
ar...@geocities.com
In article <33892c46...@news.cyberhighway.net>,
pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
>
> On Mon, 26 May 1997 04:15:02 GMT, donpe...@aol.com (don Pequeno)
> wrote:
>
> >>>> don Pequeno wrote:
> >>>> I am NOT claiming that I am a Nagual.
> >
> >> pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
> >> I have waited a long time for this statement.
> >> Since you are not a Nagual,
> >
>Since you are not a
>if someone is a Nagual or not? I think that only a
>Nagual can detect the authenticity
>of a Nagual.
>Well, since you ARENT A NAGUAL, and only Naguals can even
>tell if someone is a Nagual or not, you will never really
>even know if I am a Nagual or not. That is what I believe.
-------snip all the crap-------------
Hey, pal, who told you this?
Or this nonsense is your own invention?
Do you remember I wrote you, there are ways to uncover a Nagual-feigners?
They always does this work by they own. YOU did it just right now.
We do listens these song "Nagual/Not Nagual" about a month (or more?)
All here already get whats up with you, you can stop.
Do you want to BE Nagual, or want the ADC belive, that you are? If first,
than, why are you dancing here so long? I told you, if you came here to
find a new Naguals to make a company, you came to a wrong place. Real
one, even if he is here, will not avow and, sure, will not be brag about
it to all the world.
You don't entrust enough to Carlos and Nagualism, so why you looking for
a seers here, in ADC - alt.dreams.CASTANEDA? Try some alt.brag.buddhists
!
Inborn abilities does not mean nothing, as all we can see now in your
case. Nagual is not inborn thing, it is earning going through sweat, fear
and own crap. You looking as just unfortunate freak of nature, seeking
for someone to foist off your freakness, coz you surely don't know what
can you do with this and it burden you so much and you can't keep it in
and go cry to ADC, poor baby.
And we even shouldn't be a naguals, to see that you are just one more
chatterbox. You are rich enough.
>Everyone in here has an opinion.
>Your's is just another one, not the end-all, cure-all, or know-all, as
>you would like to have others believe. I can see through your facade.
And you have no facade at all, all your crap is out.
As for me, I am ready to believe, that you are Nagual.... ..or Buddah, or
Jesus,or Napoleon, all you want, but leave us from listening your pity
songs again and again, have mercy!
********************************
AND SOMETHING TO DP!
>Wookin' po nub in aw da wong pwaces! ;-)
Don't you forget, this is public world-wide conference, not-americans use
to be here. If you want to pun, than, please, place transcription on
normal english down in brackets!
Arcady Herces
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Coyote
pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
>And he spews out insults about other's displays of self importance,
>when in fact, HIS ego is HUGE. He talks the talk, but he does not
>walk the walk. He lives on negative attention. What a waste.
>Anyone who swallows his drivel is in nowhere land, not a "Seperate
>Reality". How can anyone with a brain believe he has achieved any of
>the 9 Toltec goals? I don't. I would laugh, but I would waste energy.
>Oh, no! What a rush! Rats; I spewed out even more negative attention
>for him to thrive on! What have I done?
>
>Pete
Pete, dP is our resident 'double-being', and as such, has a special
privilege to lord it over ordinary mortals in this newsgoup. He
doesn't like it, but you can just ignore him. :-)
"Coyote"
don Pequeno
> ar...@geocities.com wrote:
> AND SOMETHING TO DP!
>> dP:
>>Wookin' po nub in aw da wong pwaces! ;-)
> Don't you forget, this is public world-wide conference, not-americans use
> to be here. If you want to pun, than, please, place transcription on
> normal english down in brackets!
> Arcady Herces
OK... especially on such an obscure one... ;-)
You really had little chance of catching that one.
If you ever have a chance to see the old Saturday Night Live
series from NBC when Eddie Murphy was still in the cast...
He did a sketch on Buckwheat ( of the Little Rascals )
singing songs later in life... this was one such:
"Lookin' for Love in All the Wrong Places"
...but with the Buckwheat delivery, it was:
" Wookin' po nub in aw da wong pwaces! "
I am poking fun at Pete, who said he was seeking
a Nagaul woman, yet not for a warrior's party.
So I figure all that's left is for company... :-o
Wookin' pa nub! :-D
dP Lite
Brandy Dominick
Daniel Murray wrote:
>
> don Pequeno wrote:
>
> > You did not say HOW I was "defending" Carlos.
> > Until you do, you are hereby Shitcanned,
> > to be read and played with only for fun.
>
> aren't you sort of in it too? <G>!! :-)!!!
>
> > Good luck.
> > don P
>
> Dan
> (Irish thing ya know, about the luck, but don't kiss the blarney stone
> since the local kids really do shit and piss on it)
I'm not sure, but does that explain the phrase 'the luck of the Irish'?
Affectionately,
brandy
(whose Mother's name was Gladys) ;-)
don Pequeno
> coyote-...@bigfoot.com (Coyote) wrote:
> Pete, dP is our resident 'double-being', and as such, has a special
> privilege to lord it over ordinary mortals in this newsgoup. He
> doesn't like it, but you can just ignore him. :-)
Can you?
Would you please do so then?
I would like that very much! :-D
dP
Daniel Murray
Hey Pete.... Mr. Ross of Oregon soon to be of Arizona,
Will you answer a question or two or three?
1. Are you connected with this Mary T person (or the Tunneshende
person) in some way like as in are you a 'follower' of hers?
If you are, connected to her in anyway that is, will you honestly
state what your connection is and just what it is you're trying to
accomplish here in adc with this connection? You can tell the world,
don't be shy.
2. Why do you post in here?
What exactly is your intent with your posting? What is it that keeps
you coming back in here... Am I wrong in saying that all you do
anymore after a couple of sort of rational posts, is just rant on and
make wild whacky clownish statements? What are you getting out of
posting in here?
3. What is your reason or basis for the wild stuff about donP, and
then someone like me (who knows donP about as well as I know the man
in the moon) who seems to find you *not* truthful? I see you to be a
total idiot and a whackout with an unknown and bizzare agenda who has
become obsessed with P, and worse, obsessed with yourself, and you're
most welcome to say what you want to say whenever you want to say it,
but it would be nice to hear from you what your reasons are for this
supposed cult mentality you find in here, etc.
Anyway.... take care now..... and really, we can play golf someday!!
Dan
(be glad to tell ya why I post in here! ... probably won't be as
colorful as your reasons....)
Mike Johnson
The Nagual Pete Ross wrote: (other redundant verbiage snipped)
> I just believe him to be one of those people who gets
> energy from negative attention.
I am not certain but could this be one of those mirror of reflection
kind of statements?
Daniel Murray
Pete Ross wrote:
Awwww petey...
c'mon now... let's play golf!!! You, me, Coyote, and donP... we'll
have fun... :-)
You were only gone for 2 weeks??? My mistake then... geeesh it seemed
like only yesterday....
still stuck on that Troll thing, eh? And now hyenas??? you're an
interesting guy, gotta give ya that... nuttier than a fruitcake but an
interesting guy...
Dan
(great adventure indeed, dude!!!)
Pete Ross
On Mon, 26 May 1997 15:07:08 GMT, mat...@concentric.net (Carlos
McGrau) wrote:
>
>
>Dear Mr. Pete
>
>He's the king of your hill only if you make it so.
>
>To me, dP is like the guy in the carnival who sits on a chair
>suspended over the tub of water. He shouts insults at you, and you
>try to hit the target with a ball and knock him into the water. The
>guy doesn't know you from Adam and his so called insults are
>nonsensical, but the madder you get and more balls you throw, the more
>he wins, no matter how many times you dunk him. I've seen those guys
>dunked hundreds of times, but I've never seem them shut up.
Thanks for the post, Mr. McGrau, but you confuse anger with my belief,
now, that he just doesn't know what he is 'talking about'. I must
admit, that at first his inanities did anger me (or rather I let
them), but I have evolved past that level, and now just consider the
source, if you know what I mean? Now that I know that he cannot even
tell if someone is a Nagual or not (the realization was there, I just
allowed the arguments to cloud my judgment) there is nothing he can do
to anger me. I just believe him to be one of those people who gets
energy from negative attention. The last posts I made to him were not
meant to portray anger on my part; just that I don't believe he knows
what he is "talking" about. I am aware than no one can make you
angry; that if you get angry, it is because you allow yourself to get
angry. I don't believe that anyone in ADC perceives, or knows more
than I do and, if you like, you can call this self importance, and
that is fine with me, and I will accept this definition. I think self
importance is necessary for those who are beyond apprenticeship, or
needing a teacher, and I do not. I think that dp just likes the game;
the emotion; the pseudo-control of the group; the negative energy
derived. He probably has not realized yet that I am neither angry
with him, nor hate him, and just think he is wasting my time, which, I
hope you will agree, is something none of us have too much of.
Regards;
Pete Ross,
A Nagual in Oregon
(dp will probably throw another tantrum now, as he is very
predictable)
Hehehehehehe.
...............................
Pete Ross
On Mon, 26 May 1997 14:44:51 -0400, Daniel Murray
<dpmu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Carlos McGrau wrote:
>>
>> Dear Mr. Pete
>>
>> He's the king of your hill only if you make it so.
>
>CG.... you're absolutely right about that.... ol PeeTee has the hots
>for P, but poor ol PeeeteyTeeety just won't admit it...
Dan, I think you are a lot like dp, and thrive on negative attention
also. This is getting boring.
>> To me, dP is like the guy in the carnival who sits on a chair
>> suspended over the tub of water.
>
><G>!!! and Petey works the second and third shifts....
>You wish, eh Dan? Anything for some negative attention, eh?
>>He shouts insults at you, and you
>> try to hit the target with a ball and knock him into the water. The
>> guy doesn't know you from Adam and his so called insults are
>> nonsensical, but the madder you get and more balls you throw, the more
>> he wins, no matter how many times you dunk him. I've seen those guys
>> dunked hundreds of times, but I've never seem them shut up.
Yes, CG has a point. I am done with this.
>Ahhhhh well, CG.... you know you're a hero of sorts of mine, but
>really now... LOL!!! Oh well.... to each his own, their intrepration
>of donaldPequeno....
Careful with the boot licking, Dan! (Hehehehe.)
Pete Ross
A Nagual in Oregon
(You can throw your tyrade now, Dan)
Pete Ross
On Mon, 26 May 1997 14:25:59 -0400, Daniel Murray
<dpmu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Coyote wrote:
>>
>> Daniel Murray <dpmu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Pete Ross wrote:
>> >
>> >>Is this what this group is turning into? Perhaps this is why..
>
>snip (I'm eating lunch so I 'know' what you're gonna say...)
>
>> >dp murray
>> >(uh ohhhhhhhhh.... it's that dP dp Dp paranoia once again causing
>> >pee-tee's squirty drizzle)...... uhhhhhohhhhhh dp sorta rhymes with pt
>> >and that stands for pocket pool, if pool was spelled with a t.
Dan, I can suggest a good therapist who works on curing fetishes
that cause a person to use coloquial language for attention getting.
>> Hey, Daniel, I think I'm gonna have to stop reading your posts while
>> I'm eating breakfast. Kinda puts a warrior off his cornflakes, all
>> that execretory stuff you've been coming up with lately...
>
>Aww geeze Coyote... switch to Maypo then... and you're right... lots
>of the execretory (?, <G> sort of like executive style!!?!?) stuff
>lately, though it was that rascal Randy who came back in from a
>vacation and shitcanned the whole scene, minus the Four Stooges... but
>I'll be off of that kind of posting soon enough. Maybe.
>
>> BTW, how's that ADC Babes calendar coming on? I can see it now...
>> January's Brandy in her belly-dancing costume, and February's Brandy
>> in her martial arts gear, and March is Brandy in her Native American
>> getup, and April's Brandy in her Tensegrity shorts...
>
>Well it's a start... Brandy, are you game for it? <G>!! But we have
>to get EE in there too.... and I don't know if honorbabe is still
>around but she gets at least one of the months; her tenure was brief
>but ever so impressive in the first post.... who else is there?
>There's a new lady I think, posting some stuff, but all in all the
>gals keep a low profile... And I don't know about you, but Mary
>Townsend ain't gettin' in this Calendar... unless she's a turbo-babe
>nagual woman... 'snick.
>
>We can't put Bigfoot and you and I in drag in that calendar too...
>
>> Come on, Daniel, get on with it!!!
>
>I'm trying, buddy!!
>
>> "Coyote"
>>
>> PS How was the golf?
>
>Typical.... par'd the first hole, went in the tank for the next 12
>holes, par'd 14 (which on this course is darn good) and that was that
>and then it thunderstormed 'boom boom zing zap boom' on 16 so we did
>the *smart* thing and of course hung out under the biggest tree we
>could find, and then gave up and came in.... I was happy, though... I
>play the Michigan TPC, always with good friends and had a great time.
>If ya ever get out this way, you can be my guest there... promise!!
>Well, I have a nice set of golf clubs, but have never used them. Sort
of hard to do that, when you work 7 days a week. Oh, well. Some day,
when I am 90 or so I might have time to 'play'.
>Dp dp dP DP deepee di'pi
Pete Ross
On Mon, 26 May 1997 19:07:52 GMT, donpe...@aol.com (don Pequeno)
wrote:
>> ar...@geocities.com wrote:
>
>> AND SOMETHING TO DP!
>
>>> dP:
>>>Wookin' po nub in aw da wong pwaces! ;-)
>
>> Don't you forget, this is public world-wide conference, not-americans use
>> to be here. If you want to pun, than, please, place transcription on
>> normal english down in brackets!
>
>> Arcady Herces
>
> OK... especially on such an obscure one... ;-)
> You really had little chance of catching that one.
>
> If you ever have a chance to see the old Saturday Night Live
> series from NBC when Eddie Murphy was still in the cast...
>
> He did a sketch on Buckwheat ( of the Little Rascals )
> singing songs later in life... this was one such:
>
> "Lookin' for Love in All the Wrong Places"
>
> ...but with the Buckwheat delivery, it was:
>
> " Wookin' po nub in aw da wong pwaces! "
>
> I am poking fun at Pete, who said he was seeking
> a Nagaul woman, yet not for a warrior's party.
>You betcha, Geronomo. Never had a woman,
until you had a Nagual. I am training my girl-
friend to become a Nagual. She has a lot
of promise, in fact. But time will tell; ho, hum.
> So I figure all that's left is for company... :-o
>
> Wookin' pa nub! :-D
>
> dP Lite
>Pete Ross,
A Nagual in Oregon
(You can throw a tantrum now, dp)
Daniel Murray
Pete Ross wrote:
> Dan, I think you are a lot like dp, and thrive on negative attention
> also.
As you said before, it's all opinion and such. I disagree with your
statement though.
>This is getting boring.
It sure is getting boring imo. That I do agree with.
> Pete Ross
> A Nagual in Oregon
> (You can throw your tyrade now, Dan)
I threw the tirades out the window long ago, petey... where do you
keep yours?
Dan
A Who Knows What Exactly? in Michigan
Daniel Murray
Pete Ross wrote:
> Dan, I can suggest a good therapist who works on curing fetishes
> that cause a person to use coloquial language for attention getting.
Please do, Pete... be honest, for once.... you seem to have a good
knowledge of therapists. Will you list the name?
> Pete Ross,
> A Nagual in Oregon
You could just be that.... :-)
Dan Murray
A Man in Michigan
Pete Ross
>Hey Pete.... Mr. Ross of Oregon soon to be of Arizona,
>Perhaps in a year or two; I am working on it.
>Will you answer a question or two or three?
>Sure; why not?
>1. Are you connected with this Mary T person (or the Tunneshende
>person) in some way like as in are you a 'follower' of hers?
>A follower? I follow no man, woman, cult, group, or concept exclusively.
I take what I see to be correct, and leave the rest. I am studying
Merilyn Tunneshende as to her validity, just as I am studying this
groups validity. I study everything that has to do with metaphysics.
I am not connected in any other way to Merilyn Tunneshende.
>If you are, connected to her in anyway that is, will you honestly
>state what your connection is and just what it is you're trying to
>accomplish here in adc with this connection? You can tell the world,
>don't be shy.
>I don't know enough about her yet to make any conclusions, or JUMP
to any. I noticed in her home page that she had astral projection
experiences similar to some of mine, where I could see my silver
cord attached to my umbillicus. I have had these experiences for
many years, and have read about countless others who have had
the same types of experiences. She also mentioned dreaming
experiences she had with an old Indian fellow in Mexico. I have
done this also. Same thing that Don Juan Matus and Don Genaro
did together. I look for authenticity in people who discuss these
concepts and study them, if I can. I don't believe in selling these
beliefs; or rather, I don't believe that they CAN be sold, for I think
that if someone isn't ready to grasp this type of perception, no
amount of teaching will do any good. I think commercialism of
these concepts is to no avail for the student. I also believe that
most abilities like this are inherent with an individual, and cannot
be learned in any workshop, or from any teacher.
>2. Why do you post in here?
> I hope to help others who are in this group who are confused
about metaphysics to see that there is more than one road; more
than one avenue; more than one interpretation of Nagualism, and
perception. I have seen people come to this group who have had
legitimate experiences, who were trying to understand these, who
were 'shot down' and told that they knew nothing, when in fact,
some of them know more than most of the articulate ones in this
group. I am helping one such individual currently who was in
the ADC group, and showed him that he WAS on the right path,
and that he should not alter it, and he will probably attain a much
higher level of perception if he doesn't give up on himself. He is
young, and perhaps he will see the luminous body, as he seems
to be on the virge of doing that.
>What exactly is your intent with your posting? What is it that keeps
>you coming back in here... Am I wrong in saying that all you do
>anymore after a couple of sort of rational posts, is just rant on and
>make wild whacky clownish statements? What are you getting out of
>posting in here?
>I think I already answered that. Most of my 'whacky statements' are
nothing more than my reaction to attacks on me. I have gotten past
any anger over this, but I still think I have as much right as anyone
to stand up for myself in any group I want to frequent. If you want
to get rid of people like me, you will have to make this a moderated
group, if that is possible. Ofcourse, then you would run the risk of
having it be considered to be an esoteric cult.
One clarification: In my opinion, I am a Nagual. You don't have to
believe this. Everything ANYONE believes is subjective, unless
he or she has actual experiences to substantiate that belief. Theory
is not good enough; words are not good enough; only experience
is good enough.
>3. What is your reason or basis for the wild stuff about donP, and
>then someone like me (who knows donP about as well as I know the man
>in the moon) who seems to find you *not* truthful?
Wild stuff? I just said that I don't think his opinion is of
grandios enlightenment, if you will. He does this to anyone in the
group he disagrees with, and has done this since I have been reading
this group. I think he 'gets off' on negative attention. I am just
calling a spade a spade.
I see you to be a total idiot and a whackout with an unknown and
bizzare agenda who has
>become obsessed with P, and worse, obsessed with yourself,
I am obsessed with the truth about metaphysics, I will admit that.
If you believe I am an idiot, you know very little about perception.
Do you think that kissing dp's boots will get you further down the
road of perception and awareness? If you do, you are disillusioned,
and hypnotized into the game. This smacks of mass hypnois to me.
Do you just read his stuff and soak it up like a sponge without
questioning any of it, and taking it all as gospel? Hell, you can get
that in any fire-and-brimstone church! Just sensationalism, hypnosis,
conditioning. Is that what you are into? Anyway, just to set the
record straight, I don't believe in the devil, god, heaven, or hell.
I only believe what I have seen, and I have seen none of these.
and you're
>most welcome to say what you want to say whenever you want to say it,
>but it would be nice to hear from you what your reasons are for this
>supposed cult mentality you find in here, etc.
>I will give you a prime example, which I posted before. In certain
passages of the CC books, Carlos believed that DJ turned into a
crow and flew away. I do not believe this. I believe that sorcery
deals in hypnosis, and that DJ hypnotized Carlos into believing
that he turned into a crow and flew away. I believe that DJ
could astral project into a crow and see through his eyes, because
I have done this myself, when I projected into a man in an airplane
passing overhead and saw through his eyes; but I cannot believe
that DJ turned into a crow. I think that any Nagual would realize
that this was a game that DJ played on CC. This was a dead give-
away in this group that dp is not a Nagual. I know he never came
right out and SAID he was a Nagual, but the inference was there,
shrouded in antiquity, clouded in a misinterpretation. I would have
to say about sorcery that those who are good in it are masters in
hypnosis. I have studied a lot about hypnosis, and this is what I
believe. This is not to say that the teachings of DJ are not valid;
but it is to say that with the wrong interpretation of what a sorcerer
does, you could come away knowing a lot less than when you
started, or be very confused.
It is 'romantic' to believe that all the DJ teachings should be taken
literally; enables the student to drift away on a cloud of endeavor,
pursuant to his ability to accomplish the needed formula for that
path. Sorcerers are very tricky, and without the correct
interpretation, the reader will be forever in darkness, or
misunderstanding.
>Anyway.... take care now..... and really, we can play golf someday!!
>That would be nice.
>Dan
>(be glad to tell ya why I post in here! ... probably won't be as
>colorful as your reasons....)
Sure, Dan; tell me why you post in here, please? I am interested to
know.
Pete
A Nagual in Oregon
..............................
everything
> Pete Ross:
> > Dan, I can suggest a good therapist who works on curing fetishes
> > that cause a person to use coloquial language for attention getting.
> Daniel Murray :
> Please do, Pete... be honest, for once.... you seem to have a good
> knowledge of therapists. Will you list the name?
> > Pete Ross,
> > A Nagual in Oregon
> You could just be that.... :-)
>
> Dan Murray
> A Man in Michigan
And now Ladies and Gentlemen, the moment we've all been waiting for ...
let's hear it for rstark with his latest Hit, #1 with a bullet on The
ADC Top Ten!... The Man Song! Take it away, Randy!
> "Man, man, man
> Peter pan, pan, pan
> Wearin' green tights
> and gettin' in fights!"
Encore!!! Encore!!!
> "Man, man, man
> Peter pan, pan, pan
> Wearin' green tights
> and gettin' in fights!"
Daniel Murray
Daniel Murray wrote:
> practice tensegrity and have done the full krecap, at least among
ooops.... krecap?!? damn, the only typo and it's a doozy...
Daniel Murray
Pete Ross wrote:
>
> On Mon, 26 May 1997 17:19:32 -0400, Daniel Murray
> <dpmu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Hey Pete.... Mr. Ross of Oregon soon to be of Arizona,
> >Perhaps in a year or two; I am working on it.
>
> >Will you answer a question or two or three?
> >Sure; why not?
And you did answer the questions, very thoughtully and spent a good
deal of time and energy answering them. That was great! The
interview was a ratings success, at least to me. I was *hoping* you
would do that, though I guess some here in adc can now say "Dan!! It's
not the 'warriors' way to *hope* for anything!!! Spank Smack!, go to
the corner and put your dunce cap on again!!!!"
> >Dan
> >(be glad to tell ya why I post in here! ... probably won't be as
> >colorful as your reasons....)
> Sure, Dan; tell me why you post in here, please? I am interested to
> know.
>
> Pete
> A Nagual in Oregon
As crazy as it sounds, this is the only place where I've ever found a
group of people, who for the most part, talk openly or not, about the
effects the teachings of Carlos Castaneda have had on their lives.
This is a newsgroup about Castaneda, isn't it? This work is the only
body of information I've found that cuts through the bullshit about
energy, awareness, perception, life and death. It seems to have
gotten very 'far out there' but then, it was always 'very far out
there' and just because I may not 'like' the so-called New Direction,
this is tough shit, eh?
It's very possible that other systems of belief or ways of knowledge
have incredible insights and paths as well, but I don't know much, if
anything, about them, other than I do know something about the spirit
of martial arts, so if someone comes in and says 'I'm a nagual and I
know more than you can ever hope to learn, and there is much else I
can teach you', I'm going to challenge this person to explain or prove
what it is they are saying.
Now, I don't have any way of knowing if you're a nagual in Oregon or
you really have anything useful to my struggle. I will listen though.
And let's not play games about this; I'm in this for myself and what
this can do for my life. But if you can't take some 'shots' at your
ego then it's very doubtful imo that you're anything other than
another idiot screaming asinine boasts along the way. But you did
pretty well in the *interview* and you held your ego in check fairly
impressively.
I also find it fascinating and very rewarding to engage in 'battle'
with those who proclaim to know more than I do or who have radically
different 'ideas' about life. As bad as that can sound to some other
people, it's the way I find that leads to myself getting 'shook' up
and then 'quieted' down.
Pete, I've been into it with tuli and Randy and JJStoecker (kind of
miss him, where'd he go?), and actually I went bonkers on tuli,
getting about as down and dirty as I can get in this online scene, and
by doing that I forced myself to see that he's a guy too, with
struggles and misguided thoughts (at times), quite like myself. And I
found that he really does have some incredible insights and guidance,
and a very consistent 'work ethic' regarding his strategy and what he
knows. And he is quite willing to share. As is donP as is Mark7, as
is Grumps as is CG as is Brandy as is EE, etc..... maybe you're in
this *cult* too.
The so-called Cult Members (you can put just about any 'names' in that
bag and yours too) have alot to offer. The easy thing to do is to see
cults and 'evil' alliances in adc; and I did that and felt that for
quite some time until I knew it wasn't so. There is an apparrent
'understanding' of sorts among those who have attended workshops and
practice tensegrity and have done the full krecap, at least among
those who post regularly in this newsgroup, but so what? Why wouldn't
there be this? They've maybe shared similar experiences.
Dan
ar...@geocities.com
In article <338a6081...@news.cyberhighway.net>,
pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
>
> On Mon, 26 May 1997 17:19:32 -0400, Daniel Murray
> <dpmu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Hey Pete.... Mr. Ross of Oregon soon to be of Arizona,
> >Perhaps in a year or two; I am working on it.
>
> >Will you answer a question or two or three?
> >Sure; why not?
Snip
>Do you just read his (dP) stuff and soak it up like a sponge without
>questioning any of it, and taking it all as gospel? Hell, you can get
>that in any fire-and-brimstone church! Just sensationalism, hypnosis,
>conditioning. Is that what you are into?
You know, when I just come to ADC, I find most of donP attacks is
amusing. When he (as it use to be) going to attack me, it makes me
chuckle, and I pretend to be a bellicose simpleton and snarl alittle,
just for fun. He never really bother me. He just do his work here. And do
it good as I see. AND HE GOT YOU! AND YOU DONT EVEN FEEL THAT HE DOES!
AND, Im SURE, YOU NEVER ASK YORSELF, WHY HE DOES!
>I have studied a lot about hypnosis, and this is what I
>believe.
I feel you studied too much about hypnosis, and now you just can't
let yourself be free of all your knowleges. And even your hypothetical
doubleness do not help you here. Will you drag your opinions through
whole your life, "Nagual"?
>it is to say that with the wrong interpretation of what a sorcerer
>does, you could come away knowing a lot less than when you
>started, or be very confused.
I don't think, that practical public here in ADC would give a dime
about they own or anyone else interpretations.
Interpretations always wrong. Direct, irreproachable, unmotivated
action always correct.
Words living here. Warriors acting out of here.
Sorceria begin were the words goes over.
> Pete
>A Nagual in Oregon
>..............................
Archy
Just a bother fuck in Sibiria
...............................
PS
It's funny - interviewed person do publicate his interview by his own..
Such passion to be famous..
Toltec
Here we go again.
On Mon, 26 May 1997 02:08:23 GMT, pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete
Ross) wrote:
>On Sun, 25 May 1997 12:39:34 -0700, Grif <gr...@innocent.com> wrote:
>
>>don Pequeno wrote:
>>*snip*
>>> Impeccability is the best use of energy.
>>> A Nagual has no points to defend.
>>> I am NOT claiming that I am a Nagual.
>I have waited a long time for this statement. Since you are not a
>Nagual, how in the hell can he hope to ever ascertain if someone is a
>Nagual or not? I think that only a Nagual can detect the authenticity
>of a Nagual.
This is absolutely inaccurate.
Besides, you weren't paying attention, again, Pete.
Pequeño never said he's n o t a Nagual.
What he said was he's n o t c l a i m i n g he's a Nagual. :-D
This was definitely a token of his modesty. ;-)
>>> I am *attacking* the vapidity of those who come to adc
>>> with their own agendas. For example, clearly Merilyn
>>> only posted here to help her fill up the seminars she
>>> is doing for money.
>Hohohohoho. And Tensegrity isn't?
Tensegrity isn't what? One of those who come to adc with their
own agendas? Or one of the seminars Merilyn's doing for money?
I think you've been getting too much excitement lately, Pete.
>>Hatred for someone you have never even met seems a little silly.
>Not only silly, but uneducated, an uninformed. He didn't even bother
>to find out WHAT or WHO she really is. His rantings seem very
>inane, and unintelligent to me.
This is not the warrior's way of thinking, my dear.
This is the way of thinking of the average men you both are.
>>> Is she that important to you? ;-)
>>Nope......I wouldn't give a fuck if she dropped off the face of the
>>earth, she does seem to have filled a place in your heart (one of
>>hatred).
>Yes, Grif. I think dp derives energy from hatred. There are those
>who can do this, but I think it is so banal.
Perhaps, but, fortunately, you've made us a demonstration of what
a genuine style is, my dear. So now, we 'know'. :-D
>>Grif
> Pete
Oh? Send us an invitation for the wedding.
We'll be really happy to join you in your joy. :-D
T.
Bye, bye Pete. Though we know you're watching.
You're a peeper. :-D
Toltec
Daniel Murray
Pete Ross wrote:
> >Hehehe.
> Hehehehe.
> >Hehehehe.
> hohohohohohoho.
pete..... you very well could be a nagual somewhere in someplace in
sometime. It's the presentation of your nagualism that has the sound
of a nerdy little boy or girl giggling that grates on the nerves as
much or more so than any of donP's rants that have ever been ranted.
You have the sound of 'Flipper' doing the heheheheheeeeee's....
Now, after all the animosity and name calling that has gone on between
us, what is it that you have to offer?
Dan
Daniel Murray
Joslin wrote:
>
> ar...@geocities.com wrote in article <8647499...@dejanews.com>...snip
> > >questioning any of it, and taking it all as gospel? Hell, you can get
> > >that in any fire-and-brimstone church! Just sensationalism, hypnosis,
> > >conditioning. Is that what you are into?
> >
> > amusing. When he (as it use to be) going to attack me, it makes me
> > chuckle, and I pretend to be a bellicose simpleton and snarl alittle,
> > just for fun. He never really bother me. He just do his work here. And do
> > it good as I see. AND HE GOT YOU! AND YOU DONT EVEN FEEL THAT HE DOES!
> > AND, Im SURE, YOU NEVER ASK YORSELF, WHY HE DOES!
> >
I think I just renounced my heterosexuality and want to live the rest
of my life on a tropical island alone with Bill and Archie.... if
they'll have me.... 'sigh....
Danny.... ;-) ;-) ;-)
Daniel Murray
Pete Ross wrote:
>
> On Tue, 27 May 1997 00:13:10 -0400, Daniel Murray
> <dpmu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >Now, after all the animosity and name calling that has gone on between
> >us, what is it that you have to offer?
> Well, Dan, first of all I would have to know where you are in the
> scheme of things, or what your INTENT is before I could answer
> that.
snip
> can get that in church. I only do 1 to 1s. You may E-Mail me
> privately, if you wish.
For real!?!? I just may take you up on this.... don't kid around
now....
> Have you answered my question as to why you are here in this group?
> That is the first step.
Well I sent in some sort of fairly inane answer but it was genuine
enough.
Dan
(don't hate me just because I'm the Clunk of December)
everything
Coyote wrote:
> BTW, how's that ADC Babes calendar coming on? I can see it now...
> January's Brandy in her belly-dancing costume, and February's Brandy
> in her martial arts gear, and March is Brandy in her Native American
> getup, and April's Brandy in her Tensegrity shorts...
Sounds as if Brandy has yet another admirer!
Either that, or Coyote isn't paying attention!
> Come on, Daniel, get on with it!!!
How about if you get on with it .... which month would you like in The
Official Hunks of ADC Calendar? We still have a few open - January, May,
June, July and September. Don't be shy, now ... How about June - Coyote
with his tie loosened and shirt neck unbuttoned having a cuppa at
Stonehenge during the summer solstice?
EE
vjo...@istar.ca
In article <338B8F...@earthlink.net>,
dpmu...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> Joslin wrote:
> >
> > ar...@geocities.com wrote in article <8647499...@dejanews.com>...
> > > In article <338a6081...@news.cyberhighway.net>,
> > > pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
> snip
> > > >that in any fire-and-brimstone church! Just sensationalism, hypnosis,
> > > >conditioning. Is that what you are into?
> > >
> > > amusing. When he (as it use to be) going to attack me, it makes me
> > > chuckle, and I pretend to be a bellicose simpleton and snarl alittle,
> > > just for fun. He never really bother me. He just do his work here. And do
> > > it good as I see. AND HE GOT YOU! AND YOU DONT EVEN FEEL THAT HE DOES!
> > > AND, Im SURE, YOU NEVER ASK YORSELF, WHY HE DOES!
> > >
> > I think we're in the presence of a true warrior :)
>
> I think I just renounced my heterosexuality and want to live the rest
> of my life on a tropical island alone with Bill and Archie.... if
> they'll have me.... 'sigh....
>
> Danny.... ;-) ;-) ;-)
Bill
David Thorpe
Pete Ross <pete...@cyberhighway.net> wrote > >
Pete Ross,
> A Nagual in Oregon
> (You can throw your tantrum now, dp)
>
"A nagual never appears to be in charge. He come and goes without notice.
It is this power that makes him the Nagual." (The Eagle's Gift)
dt
Brandy Dominick
Pete Ross wrote:
>
> On Tue, 27 May 1997 18:12:13 GMT, Toltec <dom...@hol.gr> wrote:
>
> >Here we go again.
> >
> >On Mon, 26 May 1997 02:08:23 GMT, pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete
> >Ross) wrote:
> >
> >>On Sun, 25 May 1997 12:39:34 -0700, Grif <gr...@innocent.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>don Pequeno wrote:
> >>>*snip*
> >>>> Impeccability is the best use of energy.
> >>>> A Nagual has no points to defend.
> >>>> I am NOT claiming that I am a Nagual.
> >>I have waited a long time for this statement. Since you are not a
> >>Nagual, how in the hell can he hope to ever ascertain if someone is a
> >>Nagual or not? I think that only a Nagual can detect the authenticity
> >>of a Nagual.
> >
> >This is absolutely inaccurate.
> >Besides, you weren't paying attention, again, Pete.
> >Pequeño never said he's n o t a Nagual.
> >What he said was he's n o t c l a i m i n g he's a Nagual. :-D
> >This was definitely a token of his modesty. ;-)
> group is a Nagual. However, I am aware that dp is not claiming that
> he is a Nagual. I was just trying to dig it out of him. Anyway, I
> have the answer now, so it doesn't matter. I already knew the truth;
> just was trying to get some verification of it. I have that now.
No, there are no Naguals in adc. No one here (I assume) has a lineage
teacher and is the leader of a party.
That doesn't mean there are no seers here.
brandy
Henry
Daniel Murray wrote:
>
> Pete Ross wrote:
> >
> > <dpmu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >, what is it that you have to offer?
>
> > Well, Dan, first of all I would have to know where you are in the
> > scheme of things, or what your INTENT is before I could answer
> > that.
> snip
> > I only do 1 to 1s. You may E-Mail me
> > privately, if you wish.
>
> For real!?!? I just may take you up on this.... don't kid around
> now....
>
> > Have you answered my question as to why you are here in this group?
> > That is the first step.
>
> Well I sent in some sort of fairly inane answer but it was genuine
> enough.
>
> Dan
> (don't hate me just because I'm the Clunk of December)
Dan u lucky Barkeep, u've found a nagual with a map of infinity
in his back pocket!
ps. get um drunk and borrow it and grumps i'll tell us if
the 'formuli' have a vague echo of hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
or if they're just meant to get petey tyrant lost?
Spirit knows who not to trust.
the best part of the infinite is there's womb 4 all warriors!
Rhiannon
Pete Ross wrote:
WHO CARES??????????
Pete Ross
On 27 May 1997 20:27:33 GMT, "Joslin" <vjo...@istar.ca> wrote:
>
>
>ar...@geocities.com wrote in article <8647499...@dejanews.com>...
>> In article <338a6081...@news.cyberhighway.net>,
>> pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
>> >
>> > On Mon, 26 May 1997 17:19:32 -0400, Daniel Murray
>> > <dpmu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > >Hey Pete.... Mr. Ross of Oregon soon to be of Arizona,
>> > >Perhaps in a year or two; I am working on it.
>> >
>> > >Will you answer a question or two or three?
>> > >Sure; why not?
>>
>> Snip
>>
>> >Do you just read his (dP) stuff and soak it up like a sponge without
>> >questioning any of it, and taking it all as gospel? Hell, you can get
>> >that in any fire-and-brimstone church! Just sensationalism, hypnosis,
>> >conditioning. Is that what you are into?
>>
>> You know, when I just come to ADC, I find most of donP attacks is
>> amusing. When he (as it use to be) going to attack me, it makes me
>> chuckle, and I pretend to be a bellicose simpleton and snarl alittle,
>> just for fun. He never really bother me. He just do his work here. And do
>> it good as I see. AND HE GOT YOU! AND YOU DONT EVEN FEEL THAT HE DOES!
>> AND, Im SURE, YOU NEVER ASK YORSELF, WHY HE DOES!
I think there are those who are totally misled by him: his
motivations, his abilities, his ways. He doesn't bother me any more
either, but I am not even here for myself; just to keep others from
being confused.
>I think we're in the presence of a true warrior :)
Not me, Joslin. War is futile; perception is everything.
I choose perception. The mundane has little appeal for me.
Pete
A Nagual in Oregon
...............................
>
>>
Daniel Murray
Henry wrote:
>
> Daniel Murray wrote:
> >
> > Pete Ross wrote:
> > >
> > > <dpmu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > >, what is it that you have to offer?
> >
> > > Well, Dan, first of all I would have to know where you are in the
> > > scheme of things, or what your INTENT is before I could answer
> > > that.
> > snip
> > > I only do 1 to 1s. You may E-Mail me
> > > privately, if you wish.
> >
> > For real!?!? I just may take you up on this.... don't kid around
> > now....
snip
> Dan u lucky Barkeep, u've found a nagual with a map of infinity
> in his back pocket!
> ps. get um drunk and borrow it and grumps i'll tell us if
> the 'formuli' have a vague echo of hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
> or if they're just meant to get petey tyrant lost?
> Spirit knows who not to trust.
> the best part of the infinite is there's womb 4 all warriors!
I tell ya, Henry my man.... it's one of the perks of bartending... ya
get just about every sort of rascal and rogue and others tellin' ya
just about anything. But Pete hasn't replied to the reply to his
offer yet, far as I can see....
If I can get him real sloshed, I'll make a print of the map and scan
it for ya.... should be interesting no matter what...
Dan
Joslin
Daniel Murray <dpmu...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<338DC2...@earthlink.net>...
> vjo...@istar.ca wrote:
>
> > > Danny.... ;-) ;-) ;-)
> > Only if you'll be in drag Big Boy!
> >
> > Bill
>
> Ahhh geeeze there's always a catch... how 'bout the harem costume EE
> is suggesting?
>
> Dan
> (on second thought... probably stay hetero...)
AWHH Come on Danny boy! I'm sure the harem costume will suffice!
Besides there are great benefits over here, Medical, Dental, a weekly news
letter, and best of all a Diner's Club Card!
Hey can I be in the calender? I'll wear black leather!
Joslin
Daniel Murray
Spinner wrote:
> As Randy walks from the stage a chant begins in the room RANDEEEEE RANDEEEEE
> RANDEEEEE
>
> Thousands of bic lighters flicker in the dimly lit room.
>
> A man comes out and announces.
>
> RANDY HAS LEFT THE BUILDING.!!!!!
>
> Spinner
Well almost... Randy hasn't left the building quite yet.... he's busy
practicing his role as the Alan Alda of adc. He's almost got it
perfect.
Dan
(oh I love the Randy Man as much as you)
don Pequeno
>Pete Ross <pete...@cyberhighway.net> wrote > >
>Pete Ross,
>> A Nagual in Oregon
>> (You can throw your tantrum now, dp)
Oops, I done forgotted..can I still be to rantin fur ya?
I mean, wow, a real damn Nagual, well, HOO WEE!
You got usuns all way whooped up now, pardner!
Howsa that?
> "David Thorpe" <dth...@intcomm.net> wrote:
>"A nagual never appears to be in charge. He come and goes without notice.
>It is this power that makes him the Nagual." (The Eagle's Gift)
>dt
If elected... I will not run.
dP
Pete Ross
>Pete Ross wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 27 May 1997 18:12:13 GMT, Toltec <dom...@hol.gr> wrote:
>>
>> >Here we go again.
>> >
Well, Brandy, this is a bit confusing, since, according to what I have
dug up on the Toltecs (who Don Juan Matus emulated), a Nagual is a
SEER. I do not abide by the CC definition of Nagual; and since CC did
not invent the term, I have to go with the Toltec definition. Can you
show me anything in the ancient Toltec definition that states that a
Nagual is anything but a SEER (not from the CC books, if you don't
mind, as I believe this would defeat the purpose of this research
before it got started).
Regards;
Pete
A Nagual in Oregon
................................
Brandy Dominick
Pete,
If you're confused, it's because you want to be.
I made it clear to you both in email and here that the people in this
newsgroup use the works of Carlos Castaneda to define terms. This is
the Castaneda newsgroup. I am sure that this is clear to you. You make
a point of saying that you don't have time to waste, yet you continue to
fight this semantic war.
I told you before that you're like a person who goes to a foreign
country, then insists that everyone speak your language. No one is
going to start using the definitions you've made up for words.
There are no naguals here. There is no one with a lineage teacher and
who is the leader of a party.
There are people here who have posted their experiences with 'seeing'.
They are 'seers', or starting to be 'seers'.
brandy
Steve Ventimiglia
everything wrote:
>
> Bill wrote:
> > Hey can I be in the calender? I'll wear black leather!
>
>
> How long are you? planning on sticking around? There are posters with
> seniority here who haven't yet responded. Out of respect for their
> longstanding participation, we feel compelled to give them a little more
> time to respond. Come to think of it, I haven't heard from the Pope of
> ADC ... It'd be nice to have a man of the cloth in the Calendar ....
> hmmm ....
>
> If we don't hear from them in the next week or so, you're in! In the
> meantime you can think about which month you'd prefer ... January, May,
> July, September and maybe June.
>
> Black leather? OK ... in keeping with the theme, how about hanging in a
> black leather harness like the one the Genaros made? Could be cool ....
>
> EE
don Pequeno
>pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
> This is rediculous, Brandy.
That's for sure, Mr. Redefinition man!
It is even ridiculous!
> The Toltecs were here before I was, or you were.
Aren't you on the "believe in reincarnation" list?
Damnit! Where did I put that...
Well, I was the original, baby! :-D
> To not acknowledge their ancient meaning is hypocrisy.
Yes, and so was their language, culture, and modality
of communications, all of which had much to do with
these "meanings", which you purport to *understand*.
So, I suggest you now refrain from ever using the UseNet again,
Pete, as that is a clear DISTORTION of their original modality
of communication, and therefore, the teachings themselves.
Furthermore, you must now eschew English in general,
using instead the original runes, or similar markings.
I will, as usual, go to the middle,
the keyjoint, the hole between the views,
and use the spelling:
ﾑﾆ邨鉀ﾎ
for the English
Nagual
and
T､ｵ
for the English
Tonal
> These are the Toltec's definitions, Brandy. Wake up!
Oh... we had inadvertantly hit the snooze bar...
a.k.a. the Petey post...
> According to the CC definition, which I will never accept. The
> Toltecs were here before CC also, Brandy. To not
> acknowledge their original intent is clearly foolish.
Yet YOU still seek our attention and approval,
even though I clearly told you there was NO chance
of ANY affiliation with me whatsoever...
I am surprised that Brandy bothered,
but her patience is astounding...
>> Brandy:
>>There are people here who have posted their experiences with 'seeing'.
>>They are 'seers', or starting to be 'seers'.
> Yes, yes; and I know some of them.
I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know...
> I think I will travel back in time and study the true intent of the Toltec's,
> thank you; and not those of today who might be nothing like the ancients.
Take a long trip on a short vortex. ;-)
> Without using the original meaning of what the Toltecs used regarding
> the Nagual, I cannot relate at all to you.
Now, you promised the ORIGINAL,
the VERY FIRST meaning...
So Og said, "UH, bddd ck, FLOO! TRR hgm EEG!"
Words of wisdom, for damn sure!
> However, I imagine there are others who feel as I do,
> who don't have the nerve to speak up, for fear of being
> jumped on by the admonishing witches in this group. Too bad.
Wait!
You have FEAR of FEELINGS? :-o
Well, you can say "THANK YOU don Pequeno"
any freaking time now, Pete!
>Pete;
>A Nagual in Oregon
Too bad they lack the energy to be what they THINK they are!
Energy... nothing like IT.
dP
everything
Brandy Dominick wrote:
> Pete,
(snip generous and fair-minded umpteenth explanation for the benefit of
the comprehension challenged)
> There are people here who have posted their experiences with 'seeing'.
> They are 'seers', or starting to be 'seers'.
And Pete's not one of them, as he's repeatedly demonstrated. You can
lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think .... er .... drink.
As dP (who loves what he does) would say, a nod's as good as a wink to a
blind ... jaguar and/or horse.
EE
Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right ...
Here I am ...
Stuck in the middle with you ....
(We're not stuck .... I know you know what I mean .... ) :-)
Brandy Dominick
Unless you've been playing with the Super Glue again. ;-)
brandy
Emilio
The Nagual Pete Ross wrote:
> Yes, yes; and I know some of them. I think I will travel back in
> time and study the true intent of the Toltec's, thank you; and not
> those of today who might be nothing like the ancients. Without using
> the original meaning of what the Toltecs used regarding the Nagual, I
> cannot relate at all to you. However, I imagine there are others who
> feel as I do, who don't have the nerve to speak up, for fear of being
> jumped on by the admonishing witches in this group. Too bad.
>
Please,please; if you do go back in time(which isn't there anymore) do
stay and spare us your bullshit.
Brandy Dominick
Pete Ross wrote:
>
> On Sun, 01 Jun 1997 14:41:57 -0500, Brandy Dominick
> <pda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >everything wrote:
> >>
> >> Brandy Dominick wrote:
> >>
> >> > Pete,
> >>
> >> (snip generous and fair-minded umpteenth explanation for the benefit of
> >> the comprehension challenged)
> >>
> >> > There are people here who have posted their experiences with 'seeing'.
> >> > They are 'seers', or starting to be 'seers'.
> >>
> >> And Pete's not one of them, as he's repeatedly demonstrated. You can
> >> lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think .... er .... drink.
>
> >> As dP (who loves what he does) would say, a nod's as good as a wink to a
> >> blind ... jaguar and/or horse.
> >>
> >> EE
> >> Clowns to the left of me
> >> Jokers to the right ...
> >> Here I am ...
> >> Stuck in the middle with you ....
> >>
> >> (We're not stuck .... I know you know what I mean .... ) :-)
> they have the original meaning of it. Anyone who doesn't give them
> credit for it is full of hot air. They believed that a SEER is a
> NAGUAL, and any other interpretation is SIMPLY HOG WASH!
> I can go on like this for 20 years, if that is what you all want. I
> can last as long as any of you who dispute this. By the way, this
> has nothing to do with the present Toltecs (or those who claim to
> be Toltecs) on Internet today, as I don't even know if they are
> Toltecs. Just to clarify that, before the next SPAM. You can
> all throw your tantrums now (those so inclined).
>
Pete, for discussing Castaneda, no one gives a hoot about your
definitions. The point of this is not how you define the word, or how
you define yourself. The issue here is communication. For the purposes
of discussion here in this newsgroup, we use the terms as defined by
Carlos Castaneda, because that is the common thread that draws us here.
You can call yourself a coffee pot for all I care, or Pope of the world
for that matter. It doesn't matter to me. You can redefine all of the
words in the world for all I care.
But you will not get a consensus HERE to agree to change the meanings of
words that afe already defined by Carlos. It doesn't mean that Carlos'
definitions apply in any venue other than this one. But in this one,
Carlos is the source because he is reason we are here.
Have you ever been around real Buddhists? Did you try to redefine all
of their terms to suit yourself?
brandy
> >Unless you've been playing with the Super Glue again. ;-)
> >
> >brandy
>
> Pete
> A Nagual in Oregon
> ...............................>
Steve Ventimiglia
Listen, Jo Jo. I don't know what dead-end stop the girls in this town
got off at but I'm here to say if your a-warin', I'm a-lookin'.
Don't worry, Sweet Cheeks, you are in that calender!- And I don't care
who I have to dive bomb to getcha there. I was always a big Rocky Horror
fan.
Kimberly
(Add a little red lipstick & spikes and I'll getcha on the cover!)
Kimberly
Pete Ross wrote:
>
> On Sat, 31 May 1997 14:51:53 -0500, Brandy Dominick
> <pda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Pete Ross wrote:
> >>
> >> <pda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Pete Ross wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, 27 May 1997 18:12:13 GMT, Toltec <dom...@hol.gr> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Here we go again.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >On Mon, 26 May 1997 02:08:23 GMT, pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete
If someone does not jump in here and defend others rights to call
themselves anything they want- and by any definition- I believe Batgirl,
the freedom fighter, will have to make a scene.
Pointing and clicking that mouse is a voluntary action, ya all...
I could care less if Pete wants to be a nagual, a bagel, or a
candelstick maker- that is his right in any forum and your right is to
decide whether you want to read about it or not!- You don't have the
right to appoint yourself the Soddam Hussian (sp?) of adc.
Mild mannered reporter,
Kimberly
(well, maybe dp does... I dunno.)
Opps! Sorry I emailed this to you, Brandy. I pressed the wrong dambed
button- still gettin' the hang of this...
don Pequeno
> pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
> The ancient Toltec definition of Nagual IS THE DEFINITION,
Petey Pete Pete... if you really believe that you have the strength
for this public tirade/bid for wannabe warriors... at least give
yourself a fighting chance, bubba!
As I was forced to point out repeatedly to TenseHead,
which I love to do, as I LOVE repetition,
again, and again, and again, really, really I do!
Oh ya... the thing was the use of the word THE
to mean something it cannot.
If there is more than one,
you can no longer use the delimiter THE
with the singular noun...
... you see...
I saw THE president of the United States.
[ there is only one at a time ]
I saw THE presidents of various countries.
[ OK because it is presidents (plural) ]
...but NOT:
I saw THE president of various countries.
If you would like to continue like *this*
for the next 20 years, people will assume that you
have a "huge brain and a sixth grade edecation". ;-)
> since they have the original meaning of it.
I asked them about that, and they only said:
" Tonalfoot "
> Anyone who doesn't give them credit for it is full of hot air.
Fuck the ancients.
You are simply a weany, Petey.
You want some dead guy to hold your little hand?
I'll pass, old man!
> They believed that a SEER is a NAGUAL,
> and any other interpretation is SIMPLY HOG WASH!
They believed and indulged in all sorts of crap.
You would no doubt have liked them a LOT. :-D
> I can go on like this for 20 years, if that is what you all want.
Yipee!
" I have the Power! "
(apologies to He-Man, especially the movie version)
> I can last as long as any of you who dispute this.
Famous last words...
Care to reconsider?
Remember, Pete... YOU came here to us.
You said you were leaving, that nobody here was worth your time.
Yet you returned to us.
You tried to contact me by email,
but I rebuffed you publicly,
as I do with all wannabes.
Are you really sure that you are so strong, little one?
Who is chasing what here in adc?
If you left, you would be but a funny memory to me,
like a cartoon that I enjoyed laughing at... nothing more.
Why have you returned?
dP
don Pequeno
> Kimberly <ve...@mailhost2.csusm.edu> wrote:
> If someone does not jump in here and defend others rights to call
> themselves anything they want- and by any definition- I believe Batgirl,
> the freedom fighter, will have to make a scene.
Wait... let me get a cool drink first...
"Barkeep.... a shorty please..."
There...ahhhhhhh...OK...
> Pointing and clicking that mouse is a voluntary action, ya all...
> I could care less if Pete wants to be a nagual, a bagel, or a
> candelstick maker-
How about a Nagualschtick?
ba dap bump!
> that is his right in any forum
Sorta... nonmoderated groups are almost unenforceable in
content... any FAQ is just a lame request for general bounds.
However, most provider's agreements suggest you do follow
those FAQs when they exist, at least to some degree, and
will consider offtopic remarks actionable to *some* degree,
which is usually little to none, unless WAY off topic, like
discussing Greenspan and the history of the FED.
I have considered, and discussed, moderating a group,
but I have no interest in restricting the speech in that way.
Anyway, there is another option. ;-)
> and your right is to decide whether you want to read
> about it or not!-
...warmer! :-D
> You don't have the right to appoint yourself the Soddam Hussian (sp?)
Is (sp?) your way of wondering his species affiliation...
It *may* be human, but who can tell for sure! HO HO HO :-D
> of adc. Mild mannered reporter, Kimberly
You know... without those glasses... hmmm...
> (well, maybe dp does... I dunno.)
No, no... I am no dictator!
I am a *Territorial* Marshall...
adc is in my area...that's all...
> Opps! Sorry I emailed this to you, Brandy. I pressed
> the wrong dambed button- still gettin' the hang of this...
That's awright missy... but watch that dang ol' spellin'.
Opps already means somepin else to me.
You tryin' to spell thin's difrent?
T'aint 'lowed 't adc.
dP
Pete Ross
On Tue, 03 Jun 1997 06:36:22 GMT, donpe...@aol.com (don Pequeno)
wrote:
>
> Is nonsene anything like kerosene?
>
> dP smoke 'em if you got 'em
>
It is nowhere, dp; not being in the scene.
And it smells about as bad.
MWest999
YOUR NOT GETTING ME TO DO THE T-SHIRTS
WEBS ANYONE?LOL
Pete Ross
On Mon, 02 Jun 1997 23:32:36 +0100, Emilio <siz...@buzzing.net> wrote:
>Pete Ross wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 01 Jun 1997 19:09:34 +0100, Emilio <siz...@buzz.net> wrote:
>>
>
>> > Please,please; if you do go back in time(which isn't there anymore) do
>> >stay and spare us your bullshit.
>
>> You know very little, if you think that. The past, the present, and
>> the future are forever etched permanently; recorded in the cosmic
>> threads of the universe. You cannot travel physically there, but you
>> can in out-of-body states. Ofcourse, you probably don't believe in
>> that either, since you have no knowledge whatsoever. How pathetic
>> you are, in your drivel. You will never even learn anythng with your
>> attitude. Why are you even here, anyway; just to speal your totally
>> worthless insults? Why don't you go to a newsgroup where people care
>> what you think. You are no SEER, or even a WARRIOR. Your
>> opinion doesn't even count.
>
>> Pete
>> A Nagual in Oregon
>
>Wrong again, Pete ,because energy flows in the universe and every moment
>is already gone by the time you recollect it. You cannot go back 7,000
>years in time anymore than you can go back 10 minutes ago, it is now
>beyond your reach. But you are right about the dreaming body, it can go
>into the unknown,but we don't know where that is now do we?
Well, since I have already done this, and you have not, you are
working from YOUR unknown perspective. Mine IS known.
> Tell us, Pete, what is it that you are teaching? How to be pompous and
>a braggart?
I am not teaching Nagualism, as that cannot be taught. However,
for you to make the claim that I have not done what I claim, given
your lack of experiences to draw from, who is pompous, and who is the
braggaard? I just see jealousy here from you. People typically have
a hard time believing what they have not experienced, and you are no
exception; just part of the 'common status quo'
.
Your defensive egotism is something we all already have
>learned, they start teaching that in kindergarden,remember "show and
Your insults here just show your lack of emotional control, and
presumptuoussness on your part. If it bothers you so much to read
about my Nagualism, why do you read my posts? YOU were the one who
over-reacted to my mention of this.
> Our aim as warriors as delineated by Don Juan's party and Carlos
>and the Witches is to lose our self-importance, to undo the cult of
>esteem,
You cannot destroy the truth, Emilio, regardless of what you believe.
warriors are ruthless about this, as the Spirit is, there is
no
>other way.
I am ruthless in the truth, Emilio; which I believe to be more
significant by far than self-importance, or losing self-importance. A
GOOD example of this, is my professing to have extensive professional
experience in hydroponics. Now, if you try to make some claim that
you know more about hydroponics than I do, unless you REALLY DO know
more than I do, I am going to call bullshit on your speal, which is
what I did above.
We cannot go into the unknown with any kind of
baggage, IT
>would annihilate us, and I can say with absolute and undeniable
>certainty that you have not done any journeying there simply by the fact
>that your egotism is monumental, and that you are here in this newsgroup
>for other reasons than a dialogue about nagualism.
You are incorrect, but I do not hold with the patent definition of
Nagualism by the CC books, but believe in the ancient Toltec
definition, that a Nagual is a SEER. Whether I am egotistical or not
is irrelevant, as there are many Tibetan mystics who are SEERs, who
are egotistical, and are esoteric in their protection of their
knowledge, but who are, nevertheless, SEERS. You saying they are not,
or anyone else saying that they need a CC type of Nagual to instruct
them is total blathering. You seem to think that only people who
believe in the CC interpretation of Nagualism can be Naguals. How
super-self important that makes you, Emilio! You don't have to have
ever heard of CC, or Don Juan Matus, or Don Genaro to be a SEER, and
if you think you do, your knowledge is extremely limited, and CULTIST.
> Perhaps one of the still open months in the ADC calender would get you
>closer to what you seek,eh?
How little you understand me. I am not seeking; I have already
arrived, Emilio.
One doesn't need to be a seer to see you Pete; you are that
transparent.
I think to make a claim like the one you just made just shows your
lack of education, and again, CULTISM. I am not impressed by you
scripture readers. Anyone can read; but you should learn to
UNDERSTAND what you read. My computer has a photographyc memory, I am
sure better than your memory; but it doesn't make value judgments as
to what is IMPORTANT, or TRUE. Only intelligence can do that. There
are plenty of Idiot Savants out there who also can memorize books, no
doubt better than you can, but they are mentally retarded.
>
> Sincerely
Emilio
Pete,
A Nagual in Oregon
Ceecil Bleenstrub
> pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
> The ancient Toltec definition of Nagual IS THE DEFINITION,
On Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:12:23 -0500, Brandy Dominick
<pda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>But you will not get a consensus HERE to agree to change the meanings of
>words that afe already defined by Carlos. It doesn't mean that Carlos'
>definitions apply in any venue other than this one. But in this one,
>Carlos is the source because he is reason we are here.
I seer yer point Brandy, but aren't you being just a didactic as Pete?
The way I seer it, language is dynamic, and changes with the
environment. Why limit ourselves to any definition, when our
understanding of any definition is always a moving target. I think
its fine for Pete to use the old idea of what a seer is, and to frame
it as such. It changes over time, and over time people like CC come
up with their idea of what a seer is based on his understanding of
what a seer used to be. Seer what I meen? Its like history.......the
older I get the better I was...... or is it .......history is the lie
commonly agreed upon by all..........after all, isn't seering is in
the eye of the beholder.....
- A Naugual from the Fagaras mountains
Emilio
I am not here to debate religion, as I don't believe in it.
I am not here to describe how or when the universe was created, as I
don't believe it was created, but always existed.
I am here to find people who are ATHIESTS, since this is the name of
the news group.
Having said that, are there any true athiests in this group? If so,
please identify yourselves.
Pete Ross
chris rodgers
You don't know enough to be a true athiest. You might think you are
an athiest. Being an "athiest" will trap you just as much as being
a sorcerer, Miss Alabama, "nagual", or whatever you want to fill in
here. _______________ < It don't matter if you believe or don't
believe. It's all the same. So why take sides or positions?
One thing is for sure: we are beings that are going to die.
All the rest is horseshit. So.... keep moving. :)>
Emilio
<previous snipped>
Emilio wrote:
> >beyond your reach. But you are right about the dreaming body, it can go
> >into the unknown,but we don't know where that is now do we?
Pete wrote:
> Well, since I have already done this, and you have not, you are
> working from YOUR unknown perspective. Mine IS known.
Your bluffing,Pete,why?
E. says:
> > Tell us, Pete, what is it that you are teaching? How to be pompous and
> >a braggart?
P. replys:
> I am not teaching Nagualism, as that cannot be taught.
It can be taught, and is being taught, but not to you,for one, it would
require a tremendous change in yourself and that is a demand that you
cannot comply with, for your compulsive lying is so deeply entrenched
that you will never extricate yourself from the muck you wallow in.
However,
> for you to make the claim that I have not done what I claim, given
> your lack of experiences to draw from, who is pompous, and who is the
> braggaard?
You are. And lying through your teeth.
Pete the accusor writes:
I just see jealousy here from you.
You have made this statement to almost everyone foolish enough to reply
to your posts(myself included). Our dedication to learning nagualism
starts with a very basic premise,it's called the mirror of
self-reflection, and since you can go into it and see yourself(be
calm,don't go zipping off anywhere) what do you see?
People typically have
> a hard time believing what they have not experienced,
The only thing you've gotten right in this response, you can't be
unlucky all the time.
and you are no
> exception;
No I am not: just another idiot who will die a very stupid death and
have all my awareness sucked out of me without even a thank you,only to
be recycled so some other fool can get clobbered by a"fir trapper" or
was that a eucalyptus trapper, I forgot.
just part of the 'common status quo'
Yep, and I did notice that you like to wear that Nagual title like a
crown, you are a true prince,just promise me you won't be discussing
politics down at the local beer hall.
> .
> Your defensive egotism is something we all already have
> >learned, they start teaching that in kindergarden,remember "show and
> Your insults here just show your lack of emotional control, and
> presumptuoussness on your part. If it bothers you so much to read
> about my Nagualism, why do you read my posts? YOU were the one who
> over-reacted to my mention of this.
ME?OVER-REACT?
>
> > Our aim as warriors as delineated by Don Juan's party and Carlos
> >and the Witches is to lose our self-importance, to undo the cult of
> >esteem,
> You cannot destroy the truth, Emilio, regardless of what you believe.
What truth, Yours?
>
> warriors are ruthless about this, as the Spirit is, there is
> no
> >other way.
> I am ruthless in the truth, Emilio;
Your lying again.
which I believe to be more
> significant by far than self-importance, or losing self-importance. A
> GOOD example of this, is my professing to have extensive professional
> experience in hydroponics. Now, if you try to make some claim that
> you know more about hydroponics than I do, unless you REALLY DO know
> more than I do, I am going to call bullshit on your speal, which is
> what I did above.
That would be spiel,(and you want us to believe you have a B.S. in
psychology?) and I don't know a single thing about hydroponics except
that that is where you grow the pot you smoke all day long.
>
> We cannot go into the unknown with any kind of
> baggage, IT
> >would annihilate us, and I can say with absolute and undeniable
> >certainty that you have not done any journeying there simply by the fact
> >that your egotism is monumental, and that you are here in this newsgroup
> >for other reasons than a dialogue about nagualism.
> You are incorrect, but I do not hold with the patent definition of
> Nagualism by the CC books, but believe in the ancient Toltec
> definition, that a Nagual is a SEER.
I bet you Tunneshede and her band of merry toltecs will let you join up
with them, they make no demands, you won't have to change a thing about
you, just huff and puff like them, and voila', instant nagual, you might
even get a pretty picture of yourself on a book or website.
Whether I am egotistical or not
> is irrelevant, as there are many Tibetan mystics who are SEERs, who
> are egotistical, and are esoteric in their protection of their
> knowledge, but who are, nevertheless, SEERS. You saying they are not,
> or anyone else saying that they need a CC type of Nagual to instruct
> them is total blathering. You seem to think that only people who
> believe in the CC interpretation of Nagualism can be Naguals.
How
> super-self important that makes you, Emilio!
Until the day I die.
You don't have to have
> ever heard of CC, or Don Juan Matus, or Don Genaro to be a SEER, and
> if you think you do, your knowledge is extremely limited, and CULTIST.
>
> > Perhaps one of the still open months in the ADC calender would get you
> >closer to what you seek,eh?
> How little you understand me. I am not seeking; I have already
> arrived, Emilio.
You have arrived, all your backs are packed, your ready to leave, but
the train has already left the station without you, and all you have
are your lies. what a waste.
>
> One doesn't need to be a seer to see you Pete; you are that
> transparent.
> I think to make a claim like the one you just made just shows your
> lack of education, and again, CULTISM. I am not impressed by you
> scripture readers.
I'm one of those old and new testament kinda guys.
Anyone can read; but you should learn to
> UNDERSTAND what you read.
No way, I'd rather see what I know.
My computer has a photographyc memory,
Yea ,but it can't spell. I guess when you got your B.S., they let you
skip the general requirements, with you being a nagual and all that.
I am
> sure better than your memory; but it doesn't make value judgments as
> to what is IMPORTANT, or TRUE. Only intelligence can do that.
oops. another truism. that old intellect can make some damn valuable
judgements, they just aren't worth a damn in the second attention.
sorry.
There
> are plenty of Idiot Savants out there who also can memorize books, no
> doubt better than you can, but they are mentally retarded.
Hey ,you left out schizophrenic.
Sincerely
Emilio
P.S.
your tenacity is your most entertaining trait, see you around,o.k.?
-
Brandy Dominick
I don't care how Pete defines words. And if you want to jump in an
decide you like his definition, I don't care about that either.
The problem here is communication. A group of people have been reading
CC's books and some are posting here with an established definition of
the word 'nagual'.
Pete has been saying he's looking for anoth4r 'nagual' to communicate
with. In private e-mail, I said to Pete that there are no 'naguals' in
adc. No one has ever claimed here to have a lineage teacher. Pete has
been told by me several times exactly how CC defines the term 'nagual'
and how I and others here use this term.
Then Pete posted to the newsgroup to say that I said there w4re no
'naguals' posting to ADC. He used my statement to make the claim that
there are no 'seers' in ADC. He knew this was not my meaning. Yet he
used this semantic confusion to bolster his claim that there are no
'seers' in ADC, and to call me as his authority. According to Pete, I
agree with him. I do not. This is the reason I posted one more time
the definition that this group uses to define 'nagual'. If you want to
have communication take place, you have to understand what the other
person means as well as you are able. What Pete is doing is not
communication.
brandy
Emilio
Sorry Chris the quote about atheists was taken from another newsgroup,
and it was not written by me,but my good friend Pete Ross. I think it
was some sort of dragnet, he probably was going to straighten them out
about what is what. Hell, I used to be one, but since I saw Miss Alabama
I have since repented. Y'all must forgive me, but I found all these
things pety has posted, and thought who better to represent Pete's
clarity and depth then the Nagual himself. I just hope those folks over
at alt.paranormal don't steer him in the wrong direction about his
orgins.
don Pequeno
>>> pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
>>> The ancient Toltec definition of Nagual IS THE DEFINITION,
>> Brandy Dominick <pda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> But you will not get a consensus HERE to agree to change the meanings of
>> words that afe already defined by Carlos. It doesn't mean that Carlos'
>> definitions apply in any venue other than this one. But in this one,
>> Carlos is the source because he is reason we are here.
> Bleen...@aol.com (Ceecil Bleenstrub) wrote:
> I seer yer point Brandy, but aren't you being just a didactic as Pete?
> The way I seer it, language is dynamic, and changes with the
> environment.
And THIS environment is NOT ancient mesoAmerica, is it?
This is alt.dreams.castaneda
> Why limit ourselves to any definition,
Why did you use the word "definition"?
When you say that, did you mean to eat, or sleep?
Was it supposed to mean a verb, or a noun?
Look... Pete was too full of crap to understand...
maybe you have a shot at this:
We use mostly English here, although this is a world-wide
forum. Why? So we can UNDERSTAND one another.
Otherwise, we are just flapping our gums, like Pete does.
You can make up any words you want.
But why limit yourself to EXISTANT words?
Why not say you are a Guthgar,
or perhaps an Uhbthanger...
which, as none of us know, means ____________.
This is not a language evolution group.
This is a group on sorcery.
Pete's need to redefine terms to suit himself
is not practical, not of value either to him or us.
> when our understanding of any definition is always a moving target.
> I think its fine for Pete to use the old idea of what a seer is, and to frame
> it as such. It changes over time, and over time people like CC come
> up with their idea of what a seer is based on his understanding of
> what a seer used to be. Seer what I meen? Its like history.......the
> older I get the better I was...... or is it .......history is the lie
> commonly agreed upon by all..........after all, isn't seering is in
> the eye of the beholder.....
> - A Naugual from the Fagaras mountains
A Nagual has a lineage in this context.
No amount of yours or Pete's childish desire to
control your world through definition will alter that.
In another CONTEXT, another newsgroup,
perhaps you can both be Queen of England!
Good luck! :-D
dP
Pete Ross
>> pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
>
>> The ancient Toltec definition of Nagual IS THE DEFINITION,
>
>
>On Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:12:23 -0500, Brandy Dominick
><pda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>But you will not get a consensus HERE to agree to change the meanings of
>>words that afe already defined by Carlos. It doesn't mean that Carlos'
>>definitions apply in any venue other than this one. But in this one,
>>Carlos is the source because he is reason we are here.
>
>I seer yer point Brandy, but aren't you being just a didactic as Pete?
>The way I seer it, language is dynamic, and changes with the
>environment. Why limit ourselves to any definition, when our
>understanding of any definition is always a moving target. I think
>its fine for Pete to use the old idea of what a seer is, and to frame
>it as such. It changes over time, and over time people like CC come
>up with their idea of what a seer is based on his understanding of
>what a seer used to be. Seer what I meen? Its like history.......the
>older I get the better I was...... or is it .......history is the lie
>commonly agreed upon by all..........after all, isn't seering is in
>the eye of the beholder.....
>
>- A Naugual from the Fagaras mountains
Ceecil:
Thank you for your post. I knew that eventually someone would look at
this from a different perspective. Just out of curiosity, do you
consider a SEER, Shaman, and Nagual basically all one in the same as I
do?
Respectfully;
don Pequeno
> pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
The problem with experiential data, Pete,
is that it is inextricably bound to the collection,
filtering, organizing, and storage systems...
which unfortunately means our minds are involved.
Not only that, but our senses, which are to
a large degree, simple energy sensors.
These are limited... wait... I did this already...
weren't you paying any attention at all?
I have been discussing the problems with perceptual
structures for over a month now, but you appear clueless.
What the Hell do you think the Ring of Unbending Intent
thread is about?
Hold the world lightly but firmly,
with a ring of unbending intent.
A Bridge Too Clear
***********************
Hold the vision, so that we might touch.
Clasp the construct of our common ground.
Suspend a bridge of belief across chasms of doubt.
Connect the naughts, bundlers of perception.
Release the vision, so that we might leave.
Past all constructs, rests nagual's ground.
Cross a bridge of nothing through the fog of thought.
Fear not naught, navigators of infinity.
dP
Ceecil Bleenstrub
On Fri, 06 Jun 1997 05:39:17 GMT, pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete
Ross) wrote:
>Ceecil:
>Thank you for your post. I knew that eventually someone would look at
>this from a different perspective. Just out of curiosity, do you
>consider a SEER, Shaman, and Nagual basically all one in the same as I
>do?
>
>Respectfully;
>Pete,
>A Nagual in Oregon
Peety,
Don't flatter yerself. I see where your coming from but that doesn't
mean I agree with you. I really had more to say about the chick from
TX's comments than yers.
Ceecil Bleenstrub
On Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:36:46 GMT, donpe...@aol.com (don Pequeno)
wrote:
> Why did you use the word "definition"?
> When you say that, did you mean to eat, or sleep?
> Was it supposed to mean a verb, or a noun?
I used definition because both the chick from TX and Peety were trying
to narrowly define the use of the word Nagaul. I understand yer point
perfectly, dp, and agree. I think both brandy and peety are wrong to
limit use of the term. Seems to me both characters are making the
mistake of being dogmatic.
> Look... Pete was too full of crap to understand...
> maybe you have a shot at this:
Thanks pal. I hope we all get our shot some day.
> We use mostly English here, although this is a world-wide
> forum. Why? So we can UNDERSTAND one another.
> Otherwise, we are just flapping our gums, like Pete does.
Encore, il me semble que tu sois trop etroit dans l'utilization de la
langage ici. Meme, j'en suis sure qu'il y a beaucoup du monde qui va
me comprendre tout a fait en francais. Mais, dans ton cas, j'en sais
rien.......
> You can make up any words you want.
Do I need to ask your for permission?
> But why limit yourself to EXISTANT words?
To better communicate with people who don't understand the words I
make up.
> Why not say you are a Guthgar,
> or perhaps an Uhbthanger...
Why not? I just hope everyone else understands. What's yer point
anyway, dp?
> which, as none of us know, means ____________.
> This is not a language evolution group.
> This is a group on sorcery.
OK, we can agree on this. Work some magic on me to make me better
understand you.
> Pete's need to redefine terms to suit himself
> is not practical, not of value either to him or us.
Peetys looking for therapy, and a little attention. But that doesn't
mean he's always wrong (nor do I necessarily agree with his point that
the old "concept" of Nagaul is the RIGHT one).
>> when our understanding of any definition is always a moving target.
>> I think its fine for Pete to use the old idea of what a seer is, and to frame
>> it as such. It changes over time, and over time people like CC come
>> up with their idea of what a seer is based on his understanding of
>> what a seer used to be. Seer what I meen? Its like history.......the
>> older I get the better I was...... or is it .......history is the lie
>> commonly agreed upon by all..........after all, isn't seering is in
>> the eye of the beholder.....
>
>> - A Naugual from the Fagaras mountains
>
> A Nagual has a lineage in this context.
My miscommunication.
> No amount of yours or Pete's childish desire to
> control your world through definition will alter that.
I don't want to control the world (yours or mine). I just want to
pursue Truth. What do you seek?
> In another CONTEXT, another newsgroup,
> perhaps you can both be Queen of England!
How about another life? What fun........
don Pequeno
>> donpe...@aol.com (don Pequeno) wrote:
>> Why did you use the word "definition"?
>> When you say that, did you mean to eat, or sleep?
>> Was it supposed to mean a verb, or a noun?
> Bleen...@aol.com (Ceecil Bleenstrub) writes:
> I used definition because both the chick from TX and Peety
> were trying to narrowly define
There is the problem... you see, you must FIRST AGREE,
then and only then can you determine the degree of synch,
or fit between those views, and judge if there is "disagreement".
You cannot possibly determine the "difference" between two
disparate systems which have neither agreement nor linkage.
We must AGREE to the system,
in order to perform actions available within that system,
to either "agree with one another" or "disagree with one another."
These choices are only available once we have come to TERMS.
You must have agreed on all of the other words in a sentence
enough so that you CAN debate the "difference" in just one.
What if you disagreed on EVERY word in a sentence?
How would you communicate?
It would be like some bizarre vaudeville act!
Agreement is prerequisite for interaction.
To believe that you can interact without fundamental agreement
is an old an deleterious myth. It cannot be so.
> the use of the word Nagaul. I understand yer point
> perfectly, dp, and agree. I think both brandy and peety are wrong to
> limit use of the term. Seems to me both characters are making the
> mistake of being dogmatic.
I am afraid that you missed the boat altogether.
I disagree most fully.
We hold a particular perceptual pattern, construct,
through which energy flows, and is thus interpreted.
When this pattern matches the flow well, this position
is torqueless, and the world is seen clearly.
Definitions are merely a mirror construct,
which if the Tonal had not grabbed the baton,
would be of quite limited value.
However, the Tonal does have control.
So, how can you change, if the only thing you can
change is your set of definitional tools?
Well, that would clearly be the place to start.
By doing that, you mirror that change elsewhere.
So as long as we are stuck on the Island,
all we can do is rearrange the items...
the walls, the lines in the sand, the "us" vs. "them,
even though this in itself will not help much.
By doing this, the change that is mirrored is of value.
But if we align "new" terms according to prior patterns,
how can this be called change? If we use the word "Nagual"
in this newsgroup to mean "seer", simply because we WANT to,
how does this help us?
I do not get to name all those damn plants,
and the number of names in my head is ludicrous!
I have to accept the name AS IS.
If I call it otherwise, it is simply WRONG.
And since my naming is powerless to alter the plant itself,
I do not indulge in such folly, except, of course, with seedlings.
You think you've seen irreverance *here*? :-D
>> Look... Pete was too full of crap to understand...
>> maybe you have a shot at this:
> Thanks pal. I hope we all get our shot some day.
You already do.
>> We use mostly English here, although this is a world-wide
>> forum. Why? So we can UNDERSTAND one another.
>> Otherwise, we are just flapping our gums, like Pete does.
>Encore, il me semble que tu sois trop etroit dans l'utilization de la
>langage ici. Meme, j'en suis sure qu'il y a beaucoup du monde qui va
>me comprendre tout a fait en francais. Mais, dans ton cas, j'en sais
>rien.......
But see, like there... I have no idea what you said.
How did that benefit you?
>> You can make up any words you want.
> Do I need to ask your for permission?
That would be "may", Mr. Smartypants! :-D
>> But why limit yourself to EXISTANT words?
> To better communicate with people
> who don't understand the words I make up.
What was that again? :-D
THAT IS MY POINT.
What is the difference between making up words,
with their definitions...
and making up definitions,
with either new or used words?
A word in usage IS its definition... they are inextricable.
This is NOT a dictionary.
If you come to communicate,
you already have agreed to soooo much.
Why fight a group agreement that is not political
or moral, just a convenience of definition?
How many words would you redefine, and why?
Would you redefine the word "redefine"?
The word "word"?
The word "the"?
>> Why not say you are a Guthgar,
>> or perhaps an Uhbthanger...
> Why not?
> I just hope everyone else understands.
And of course, they would NOT.
> What's yer point anyway, dp?
That is my point.
> which, as none of us know, means ____________.
> This is not a language evolution group.
> This is a group on sorcery.
> OK, we can agree on this.
> Work some magic on me to make me better understand you.
My Intent is to motivate, not engender understanding, anyway.
>> Pete's need to redefine terms to suit himself
>> is not practical, not of value either to him or us.
> Peetys looking for therapy, and a little attention. But that doesn't
> mean he's always wrong (nor do I necessarily agree with his point that
> the old "concept" of Nagaul is the RIGHT one).
Pete has been wrong on nearly everything he has written,
from *within the context of this body of knowledge,
as put forth by Carlos.*
There is a newsgroup on Shamanism, you know!
...and CC is not altogether well thought of there...
they are much more orderly, serious, and would rather
use terms *outside* of Carlos' terms, as Pete does.
That is fine within another context,
but is clearly counterproductive and distracting here.
We will never redefine for just one person,
as that would indeed be imperialistic.
I am the only one who has succeeded in even a respelling.
Fliers became Flyers
...just because I wanted it to! :-D
A few still rebel, but to small avail... ;-)
"the bots, Sir... they seem to be siding with dP!"
When possible, we try to use terms as Carlos does,
because we have all agreed ALREADY to be in a
newsgroup called alt.dreams.castaneda.
Even Pete has agreed to this, via his posting.
Just reading it is such an agreement.
There is no official membership... you are here, or not.
You make yourself available, or you do not.
>> when our understanding of any definition is always a moving target.
>> I think its fine for Pete to use the old idea of what a seer is, and to frame
>> it as such. It changes over time, and over time people like CC come
>> up with their idea of what a seer is based on his understanding of
>> what a seer used to be. Seer what I meen? Its like history.......the
>> older I get the better I was...... or is it .......history is the lie
>> commonly agreed upon by all..........after all, isn't seering is in
>> the eye of the beholder.....
>> - A Naugual from the Fagaras mountains
>> A Nagual has a lineage in this context.
> My miscommunication.
No problem.
We are pretty suspicious of those who claim to have
a secret lineage, yet are going public, as Carlos did.
Do not think that I did not find that odd,
nor have "vanquished all doubts". Far from it.
I just deal with my silly feelings as such!
>> No amount of yours or Pete's childish desire to
>> control your world through definition will alter that.
> I don't want to control the world (yours or mine).
> I just want to pursue Truth. What do you seek?
Freedom
>> In another CONTEXT, another newsgroup,
>> perhaps you can both be Queen of England!
> How about another life? What fun........
....one to a customer, baby!
grow ... slow,
mate ... slate.
dP passes
Pete Ross
On 6 Jun 1997 14:54:51 GMT, Har...@psy.utexas.edu (Bigfoot) wrote:
>pete...@cyberhighway.net says...
>
>>A Nagual in Oregon (SEER, if you prefer)
>
>I prefer "delusional dweeb," but don't let it cramp your style.
>
> -Bigfoot
>(I "see" my monitor! It's all shiney, like Petie's luminous body!))
Bigfoot, I used to think you had a brain in your head. I see now that
I was wrong. You have never SEEN any of this, have you? How
pathetic.
Pete;
A Nagual in Oregon
.....................
Emilio
See now ,Pete if you WERE a seer,you would have seen that before hand
without thinking about it, but your didn't,what happened ?(no offence
BF,besides you being cynical and a stubborn asshole, your also wickedly
hilarious) BTW, did anybody over there in alt. paranormal find any
accurate information for you on your origins,Pety? Since you think
Christ was a extraterrestial, do you think there is any probability that
Naguals originated that way also,hence making you a spaceman,too?
Hail Bopp!
Emilito
Brandy Dominick
A Steamer Andy wrote:
>
> donpe...@aol.com (don Pequeno) wrote:
>
> > I defer to Carlos' terms here for clarity sake.
> > They are not always what I want to say,
> > and it is often very hard to squeeze my stuff into them.
>
> > But I am posting to an audience which knows *these* terms,
> > not MY terms, so I try very hard to be specific and accurate.
>
> > If your Intent were to help, you would do the same.
>
> > YOU would accomodate your audience,
> > not merely fight with them.
>
> > If you were strong, and a seer...
>
> > you might do both! ;-)
>
> > See ya,
> > dP
>
> Well put old man.
>
> Correct me if I am wromg.
>
> The defination as I understand it by DJ is that a Nagual is a
> four sided individual and that CC was a Nagual. Then later
> we learn that CC is only three sided. CC and is still called the
> Nagual. Does that change the difination. What is the true
> defination of words in CC's writings when they change.
A normal person has a right and a left side. This refers to balls of
energy within the luminous cocoon.
A double being has a far-right and a right and a far-left and a left
side. They have four falls of energy or twice the energy of the
average person. CC has twice the energy, but on one side, I think on
the left side, the energy is not divided into two compartments. There
is twice the energy, but it's not divided. As such he is a double being
and has been called a three-pronged nagual rather than a four-pronged
nagual.
> By that defination a Nagual is a Nagual regardless of his
> abilities. He may not even know as CC didn't in the beginning.
> How can you say there is no Nagual at adc?
What makes CC a nagual rather than a double being is that he is the
inheritor of a lineage and is the leader of a party. No one has come
forward in adc to claim that there is a don Juan who was the nagual
before him and that he is the leader of a party. That is what I said,
as opposed to knowing that there was no nagual in adc.
brandy
Carlos Grau
pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
>On Thu, 05 Jun 1997 13:56:17 GMT, Bleen...@aol.com (Ceecil
>Bleenstrub) wrote:
>
>>> pete...@cyberhighway.net (Pete Ross) wrote:
>>
>>> The ancient Toltec definition of Nagual IS THE DEFINITION,
>>
>>
>>On Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:12:23 -0500, Brandy Dominick
>><pda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>But you will not get a consensus HERE to agree to change the meanings of
>>>words that afe already defined by Carlos. It doesn't mean that Carlos'
>>>definitions apply in any venue other than this one. But in this one,
>>>Carlos is the source because he is reason we are here.
>>
>>I seer yer point Brandy, but aren't you being just a didactic as Pete?
>>The way I seer it, language is dynamic, and changes with the
>>environment. Why limit ourselves to any definition, when our
>>understanding of any definition is always a moving target. I think
>>its fine for Pete to use the old idea of what a seer is, and to frame
>>it as such. It changes over time, and over time people like CC come
>>up with their idea of what a seer is based on his understanding of
>>what a seer used to be. Seer what I meen? Its like history.......the
>>older I get the better I was...... or is it .......history is the lie
>>commonly agreed upon by all..........after all, isn't seering is in
>>the eye of the beholder.....
>>
>>- A Naugual from the Fagaras mountains
>
>Ceecil:
>Thank you for your post. I knew that eventually someone would look at
>this from a different perspective. Just out of curiosity, do you
>consider a SEER, Shaman, and Nagual basically all one in the same as I
>do?
>
Ok Pete. Lets say yes. Where do we go from here?
don Pequeno
NAGUAL
The Rule of the Nagual:
The power that governs the destiny of all living beings is
called the Eagle, not because it is an eagle or has anything to
do with an eagle, but because it appears to the seer as an
immeasurable jet-black eagle, standing erect as an eagle stands,
its height reaching to infinity.
As the seer gazes on the blackness that the eagle is, four
blazes of light reveal what the Eagle is like. The first blaze,
which is like a bolt of lightening, helps the seer make out the
contours of the Eagle's body. There are patches of whiteness
that look like an eagles feathers and talons. A second blaze of
lightening reveals the flapping, wind creating blackness that
looks like an eagle's wings. With the third blaze of lightening
the seer beholds a piercing, inhuman eye. And the fourth and last
blaze discloses what the Eagle is doing.
The Eagle is devouring the awareness of all the creatures
that, alive on earth a moment before and now dead, have floated to
the Eagle's beak, like a ceaseless swarm of fireflies, to meet
their owner, their reason for having had life. The Eagle
disentangles these tiny flames, lays them flat, as a tanner
stretches out a hide, and then consumes them; for awareness is
the Eagles food.
The Eagle, that power that governs the destinies of all
living things, reflects equally and at once all those living
things. There is no way, therefore, for man to pray to the Eagle,
to ask favors, to hope for grace. The human part of the whole is
too insignificant to move the whole.
It is only from the Eagle's actions that a seer can tell what
it wants. The Eagle, although it is not moved by the
circumstances of any living thing, has granted a gift to each of
those beings. In it's own way and right, any one of them, if it
so desires, has the power to keep the flame of awareness, the
power to disobey the summons to die and be consumed. Every living
thing has been granted the power, if it so desires, to seek an
opening to freedom and to go through it. It is evident to the
seer who sees the opening, and to the creatures that go through
it, that the Eagle has granted the gift in order to perpetuate
awareness.
For the purpose of guiding living things to that opening, the
Eagle created the nagual. The Nagual is a double being to whom
the rule has been revealed. Whether it be in the form of a human
being, an animal, a plant, or anything else that lives, the Nagual
by virtue of its doubleness is drawn to seek that hidden
passageway.
The Nagual comes in pairs, male and female. A double man and a
double woman become the Nagual only after the rule has been told
to each of them, and each of them has understood it and accepted
it in full. To the eye of the seer, a Nagual man or Nagual woman
appears as a luminous egg with four compartments. Unlike the
average human being who has two sides only, a left and a right,
the Nagual has a left side divided into two long sections, and a
right side equally divided in two.
The Eagle created the first nagual man and nagual woman as
seers and immediately put them in the world to see. It provided
them with four female warriors who were stalkers, three male
warriors and one male courier, whom they were to nourish, enhance
and lead to freedom.
[ The Eagle's Gift...somewhere in there..
you people look it up, and READ it, willya? ]
Three quick points:
1. The term for those who have not had a teacher "reveal the rule",
and therefore have a lineage is DOUBLE MAN or DOUBLE WOMAN.
These have the capacity to lead to freedom, and without a lineage
would still be leaders, but with looser affiliations.
2. The first Nagual pair of humans were put in the world "as seers".
Rather than confirm the notion that this is synonymous, it implies
that these are not at all the same thing.
They were seers, so they could discern the abstract cores.
They were Naguals, so they could lead.
3. All living molds have Naguals.
How many of us have carefully considered this
implication, and made use of it?
Why do humans virtually always seek only human Naguals?
I wanna hold your hand.... ;-)
dP
Coyote
Bleen...@aol.com (Ceecil Bleenstrub) wrote:
>On Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:36:46 GMT, donpe...@aol.com (don Pequeno)
>wrote:
>> Why did you use the word "definition"?
>> When you say that, did you mean to eat, or sleep?
>> Was it supposed to mean a verb, or a noun?
>
>I used definition because both the chick from TX and Peety were trying
>to narrowly define the use of the word Nagaul. I understand yer point
>perfectly, dp, and agree. I think both brandy and peety are wrong to
>limit use of the term. Seems to me both characters are making the
>mistake of being dogmatic.
OK, I think I was the first person to complain about Pete's abuse of
the English language. The proper use of words and definitions in the
context of dJ's teachings are, as I understand it, as a tool for
understanding, and as a bridge into the unknown. And because we are
discussing a shared tradition, we share the same words and meanings.
The word 'nagual' within the Toltec teachings has two meanings.
Firstly, it refers to that part of the totality of ourselves which we
loosely call 'spirit', and secondly, it is the title given to a man
and woman, with a specific energy configuration, who hold the
knowledge for a lineage of sorcerers.
And I don't really see the point arguing about it. Other traditions
have other terms, and it is certainly worth drawing parallels between
traditions, but I don't think that that diminishes the value of clear
definitions within traditions. If anything, it makes it easier for
people from different traditions to understand each other. It's just
gross egocentrism and sheer obstinacy wanting to make up your own
terms about everything. It's not a matter of us being 'dogmatic' or
otherwise, we're just being _practical_.
"Coyote"
ZUMBRENNEN JOSEPH CORY
donpe...@aol.com (don Pequeno) writes:
> NAGUAL
>
> Three quick points:
Yay dP! FINALLY someone wrote this in. This is the "rule's" definition
and therefore Castaneda's. This ought to be the define the term Nagual
for this ng. For anyone who has read the books it is clear that Naguals
are not synonymous with seers. Seeing is something anyone can do. But
you are either born a double being or you are not. (I hope no one brings
up Pablito's aspirations here;))
Now I am going to go on a little diatribe here about how I see things.
The primary intent of the books is to reveal the "rule" to male double
beings out there, and to trick them into accepting it in full. As they
accept it their party will take shape. As they accept it they become
Naguals. For ordinary people the most that the books can be is just
another philosophy, another set of beliefs. I'm sure we are all well
aware of the power of belief and the power of impeccability. But it
takes a Nagual to get to freedom. Without a Nagual in your life you
cannot be free. Warrior...yep. Sorceror...yep. Free...nope.
I think of the Castaneda books like spores. They float around society
looking for male double beings who are in a position to accept the rule.
They may accomplish many other things, not the least of which is the
money making seminars, but their primary intent, the Spirit's intent, is
to connect with those male double beings. Mabye new lineages will start
mabye not. Mabye it's all up to the books now. I don't know, but
I'll be sure to find out for you guys:)
Cory
Spirit
ZUMBRENNEN JOSEPH CORY wrote:
>
>
> Yay dP! FINALLY someone wrote this in. This is the "rule's" definition
> and therefore Castaneda's. This ought to be the define the term Nagual
> for this ng. For anyone who has read the books it is clear that Naguals
> are not synonymous with seers. Seeing is something anyone can do. But
> you are either born a double being or you are not. (I hope no one brings
> up Pablito's aspirations here;))
> Now I am going to go on a little diatribe here about how I see things.
> The primary intent of the books is to reveal the "rule" to male double
> beings out there, and to trick them into accepting it in full. As they
> accept it their party will take shape. As they accept it they become
> Naguals. For ordinary people the most that the books can be is just
> another philosophy, another set of beliefs. I'm sure we are all well
> aware of the power of belief and the power of impeccability. But it
> takes a Nagual to get to freedom. Without a Nagual in your life you
> cannot be free. Warrior...yep. Sorceror...yep. Free...nope.
> I think of the Castaneda books like spores. They float around society
> looking for male double beings who are in a position to accept the rule.
> They may accomplish many other things, not the least of which is the
> money making seminars, but their primary intent, the Spirit's intent, is
> to connect with those male double beings. Mabye new lineages will start
> mabye not. Mabye it's all up to the books now. I don't know, but
> I'll be sure to find out for you guys:)
>
> Cory
"Our difficulty with this simple progression," he said, "is that most of
us are unwilling to accept that we need so little to get on with. We are
geared to expect instruction, teaching, guides, masters. And when we are
told that we need no one, we don't believe it. We become nervous, then
distrustful, and finally angry and disappointed. If we need help, it is
not in methods, but in emphasis. If someone makes us aware that we need
to curtail our self-importance, that help is real.
"Sorcerers say we should need no one to convince us that the world is
infinitely more complex than our wildest fantasies. So, why are we
dependent? Why do we crave someone to guide us when we can do it our-
selves? Big question, eh?"
- "The Power of Silence" pg. 180
The Nagual is the leader but, not having one, I prefer this myth. And
even if I don't find freedom, what a journey this has been!
S
Carlos Grau
>
> NAGUAL
>
> The Rule of the Nagual:
>
> The power that governs the destiny of all living beings is
> called the Eagle, not because it is an eagle or has anything to
> do with an eagle, but because it appears to the seer as an
> immeasurable jet-black eagle, standing erect as an eagle stands,
> its height reaching to infinity.
>
>
snip
> The Eagle, that power that governs the destinies of all
> living things, reflects equally and at once all those living
> things.
snip
> The Eagle created the first nagual man and nagual woman as
> seers and immediately put them in the world to see. It provided
> them with four female warriors who were stalkers, three male
> warriors and one male courier, whom they were to nourish, enhance
> and lead to freedom.
and snip
Why not just simplify things and change the name from Eagle to God,
since this is a term that most people are already familiar with.
David Thorpe
Carlos Grau <mat...@concentric.net> wrote in article
<339d5ad8...@NEWs.concentric.net>...
>
<snip>
> Why not just simplify things and change the name from Eagle to God,
> since this is a term that most people are already familiar with.
>
Won't work, Carlos...
don Juan talked about God, and said that the nagualist equivalent is the
"mold of man".
He told CC that people who worship God are actually worshipping the "mold
of man".
I don't have the specific reference, but it's in one of the later books.
don Pequeno
>> since this is a term that most people are already familiar with.
> "David Thorpe" <dth...@intcomm.net> wrote:
> Won't work, Carlos...
> don Juan talked about God, and said that the nagualist equivalent
> is the "mold of man".
> He told CC that people who worship God are actually worshipping
> the "mold of man".
> I don't have the specific reference, but it's in one of the later books.
Yep.
This is from the adc Glossary, which I never have enough time for,
hint, hint, to the complainers...just the term and page # of a short
passage would save your compadres a LOT of time sometimes.
Right now, someone who knows it,
but can't *quite* find it,
may well be searching for it...
This is something that would benefit ALL of us,
and I always have time to add a few lines to an
existant html doc... no biggie...
I expect to see some references, here or by email.
Human Mold
what puts us together [SRoP 156] the human mold [SRoP 153]
everything has a particular mold ... plants, animals, worms ...
[SRoP 153]
[ Second Ring of Power]
These pages also discuss the human *form*.
Human Form
Something sticky, a sticky force that
makes us the people we are. [SRoP 156]
dP
rcma...@netcom.com
In <dingle.73...@shingleberry.com>, din...@shingleberry.com (Vague Deco) writes:
>In article <5nkccf$6...@camel1.mindspring.com> donpe...@aol.com (don Pequeno) writes:
>>From: donpe...@aol.com (don Pequeno)
>>Subject: Re: EEs Ramblings, Brandy's Ravings
>>Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:06:19 GMT
>
>>> Har...@psy.utexas.edu (Bigfoot) wrote:
>
>>> Sounds like someone's effort to devolve some very esoteric
>>> knowledge into a biblical format so's the faithful masses
>>> can have some way of thinking that they understand that
>>> which is unltimately not "understandable".
>
>>> -Bigfoot
>>> (Parables and psalms for those who were never intended.)
>
>> Make mine psalmami, but hold the mustard,
>> oh, and an extra parable please.
>
>> Why not try to match the descriptions
>> of the people's types to his initial group?
>
>> Then see if *you* have a loose affiliation
>> which happens to match this "rule".
>
>> When I did this, I found, quite very much
>> to my surprise, that such a unit existed.
>> I do not have that large a circle of friends,
>> and they all fit into this pattern.
>
>> However...I *feel* the way you do.
>
>> Roadmap, smoadmap.
>> Fuck it! :-D
>
>> You know that's what gives me detachment.
>
>> I figure any club with me as a member MUST suck!
>
>> So I no joinee!
>> No siree!
>
>> I am of the new style...
>> no specific leader...
>> no official allegiances...
>> no pledges...
>
>> You can join our "group"
>> only if you deny a group exists,
>> even to yourself!
>
>> Hee Hee Hee : )
>
>> Why fly on one wing?
>
>> dP
>
>
>
>
> I don,t know which one of you rascals launched Sweet Pea into orbit
>in the second detention but you damm well better fish him out before he goes
>nova. Sheesh.
>
> Grumps
he he, Grumpy !
OK, let's stir the pot some more. Everyone try this one on and see
how it fits <g>
Rosemarie
"There is nothing visual about the Eagle. The entire body of a seer
senses the Eagle. There is something in all of us that can make us
witness with our entire body. ... because man is composed of the
Eagle's emanations, man need only revert back to his components.
The problem arises with man's awareness; it is his awareness that
becomes entangled and confused. At the crucial moment when it
should be a simple case of the emanations acknowledging themselves,
man's awareness is compelled to interpret. The result is a vision
of the Eagle and the Eagle's emanations. But there is no Eagle and
no Eagle's emanations. What is out there is something that no living
creature can grasp."
"The real impact can't be measured until the moment when you see
it yourself. But you must bear in mind that our flaws remain with
us even after we become seers. So when you see that force, you
may very well agree with the old seers who called it the Eagle,
as I did myself. On the other hand, you may not. You may resist
the temptation to ascribe human attributes to what is incomprehensible,
and actually improvise a new name for it, a more accurate one."
The Fire From Within
Bigfoot
> NAGUAL
> The Rule of the Nagual:
> The power that governs the destiny of all living beings is
> called the Eagle, not because it is...
[Schnype!]
A Steamer Andy
din...@shingleberry.com (Vague Deco) wrote:
>
>
> I don,t know which one of you rascals launched Sweet Pea into orbit
>in the second detention but you damm well better fish him out before he goes
>nova. Sheesh.
>
> Grumps
Let him go and see if you can follow.
Andy
Carbon12
Carlos Grau wrote:
>
> > The Eagle, that power that governs the destinies of all
> > living things, reflects equally and at once all those living
> > things.
> Why not just simplify things and change the name from Eagle to God,
> since this is a term that most people are already familiar with.
I prefer Eagle, for the following reasons:
The word "God" has human connotations (Man made in his image, lots of
images of bearded old men knocking around in our subconscious).
An Eagle is a really stunning bird, with a merciless look in its eye,
whilst most descriptions of God say he is loving and forgiving.
It is sufficiently absurd that the Universe is run by a big bird, that
we are less likely to take it literally.
your mileage may vary ;-)
Carbon12
Mr Pissant
Spirit <monke...@aol.com> writes:
>"Our difficulty with this simple progression," he said, "is that most of
>us are unwilling to accept that we need so little to get on with. We are
>geared to expect instruction, teaching, guides, masters. And when we are
>told that we need no one, we don't believe it. We become nervous, then
>distrustful, and finally angry and disappointed. If we need help, it is
>not in methods, but in emphasis. If someone makes us aware that we need
>to curtail our self-importance, that help is real.
>
>"Sorcerers say we should need no one to convince us that the world is
>infinitely more complex than our wildest fantasies. So, why are we
>dependent? Why do we crave someone to guide us when we can do it our-
>selves? Big question, eh?"
>
> - "The Power of Silence" pg. 180
>
>
>The Nagual is the leader but, not having one, I prefer this myth. And
>even if I don't find freedom, what a journey this has been!
>
>S
"I prefer this myth..."
I like it.
Monkeyshines!
Antoine