Did Walt's Painted Desert really...

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Bob Dobbs

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Mar 15, 2003, 10:40:13 AM3/15/03
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...span out as far as the DLRR tracks in the 50s?

It sure looks like it from an old People & Places: "Disneyland" episode.

If the Painted Desert/outlaying Frontierland Mine Train 'desert scenary'
was really THAT large.. wow.
That's so cool.

I definitely loved the old Rainbow Caverns Mine Train/Mine Train Thru
Nature's Wonderland. I wish Big Thunder Mtn RR took up that much space
in the back of Frontierland/along the river.

I wish a new, slow, western National Park-exploring, mine train was
built/opened in Frontierland.

That would be so cool.
--
http://disneyland.ath.cx
. . .
"To visit Frontierland and travel along it's high-roads and by-roads, is
to relive in this modern day all the high adventure of the American
pioneer."

OFP_857

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Mar 15, 2003, 10:53:52 AM3/15/03
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As far as I can remember, it not only did extend that far in the
fifties, but did so up until it closed in the seventies. The real
estate that attraction took up was huge.

-Jeff

Robert Bottoms

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Mar 15, 2003, 7:10:25 PM3/15/03
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Yes, the Mine Train met the DLRR in the Living Desert. If you want proof,
there is a chase scene in 40 Pounds of Trouble that will prove it. The cast
runs
through the desert and crosses the DLLR tracks just before a train cuts them
off.


"Bob Dobbs" <BobD...@MyEmailAddress.com> wrote in message
news:3E7349BF...@MyEmailAddress.com...

Bob Dobbs

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Mar 18, 2003, 4:15:48 AM3/18/03
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> As far as I can remember, it not only did extend that far in the
> fifties, but did so up until it closed in the seventies. The real
> estate that attraction took up was huge.

Wow.

Thanx for the info. :)

> >...span out as far as the DLRR tracks in the 50s?
> >
> >It sure looks like it from an old People & Places: "Disneyland" episode.
> >
> >If the Painted Desert/outlaying Frontierland Mine Train 'desert scenary'
> >was really THAT large.. wow.
> >That's so cool.
> >
> >I definitely loved the old Rainbow Caverns Mine Train/Mine Train Thru
> >Nature's Wonderland. I wish Big Thunder Mtn RR took up that much space
> >in the back of Frontierland/along the river.
> >
> >I wish a new, slow, western National Park-exploring, mine train was
> >built/opened in Frontierland.
> >
> >That would be so cool.


--

. . .

Bob Dobbs

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Mar 18, 2003, 4:57:39 AM3/18/03
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Robert Bottoms wrote:
>
> Yes, the Mine Train met the DLRR in the Living Desert. If you want proof,
> there is a chase scene in 40 Pounds of Trouble that will prove it. The cast
> runs
> through the desert and crosses the DLLR tracks just before a train cuts them
> off.

I believe ya.
....and that little know fact is cool. Thanx. :)
--

. . .

voice from the past

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Mar 18, 2003, 12:01:13 PM3/18/03
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"Robert Bottoms" <bob...@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<RhPca.118092$S_4.70826@rwcrnsc53>...

> Yes, the Mine Train met the DLRR in the Living Desert. If you want proof,
> there is a chase scene in 40 Pounds of Trouble that will prove it. The cast
> runs
> through the desert and crosses the DLLR tracks just before a train cuts them
> off.
>

Thank you so much for remembering!

I've been trying to figure out which picture that was for many years.
What a fantastic record of that time. I remember when the father bows
down to get a drink at the gyser and stands away just in time.

The loss or the pruning away of the Nature's Wonderland ride was a
pruning away of a part of Walt Disney's legacy, and stands for me as
the worst thing that ever happened to Disneyland. Frontierland was
realm after realm of places to get lost in nature's dream. I believe
it was done in response to the attention that Magic Mountain was
receiving with their whoopie rides. Disney forgot what Disneyland was
and thought thrills were found in being thrown around. Disneyland has
never needed to fret what anyone on earth was doing to entertain the
public. Disneyland was unapproachable, distinct, and perfect as far
as anyone was concerned. Now we need more and more to use our
imagination rather than have our imaginations fed by the show. There
is more Disneyland in the past than Disneyland surviving now. There
was nothing like Disneyland anywhere on earth, and now, because of
businessmen who are not moved by things like Disneyland, that
Disneyland cannot be found anywhere on earth.

voice from the past

Michelle Smith

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Mar 18, 2003, 4:59:45 PM3/18/03
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>The loss or the pruning away of the Nature's Wonderland ride was a
>pruning away of a part of Walt Disney's legacy, and stands for me as
>the worst thing that ever happened to Disneyland.

Really? Odd that you would say that, as an Imagineer you say is a friend of
yours was personally responsible for the changeover.

Fab

"Life sucks. And because life sucks, places like Walt Disney World exist.
And it is my job to see that for the few hours or days that a guest stays
with us. Life doesn't suck." ~ Art Yet Lew

voice from the past

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Mar 19, 2003, 1:16:00 AM3/19/03
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dscve...@aol.compazine (Michelle Smith) wrote in message news:<20030318165945...@mb-cg.aol.com>...

I can't agree with everything my friends do or have done, but that is
one train wreck: literally.

I loved the train around the little waterfall and the tunnel and the
trestle and the animals; the feeling of being in the desert, the gyser
and the wonders of the caverns and the beautiful colored pools. It
really felt every bit like watching the nature films, in all their
warmth. It was a great little trip, and the narration was by an old
codger that later speaks only to say: "Watch those hats and glasses!"
at Thunder Mountain.

To my knowledge I never actually met the Imagineer who was part of the
Thunder Mountain project; just a relative, who through some persuasion
with him got me into WDI. I was never told the details.

Thunder Mountain is indeed fun, but I think it would have been a great
ending to the gentle journey through the desert to suddenly have a
"spirit" come upon the train that made it wild in the mountain for a
thrilling conclusion.

voice from the past

James D. Keeline

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Mar 19, 2003, 12:31:25 PM3/19/03
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Bob Dobbs <BobD...@MyEmailAddress.com> wrote in message news:<3E7349BF...@MyEmailAddress.com>...
> ...span out as far as the DLRR tracks in the 50s?
>
> It sure looks like it from an old People & Places: "Disneyland" episode.
>
> If the Painted Desert/outlaying Frontierland Mine Train 'desert scenary'
> was really THAT large.. wow.
> That's so cool.
>
> I definitely loved the old Rainbow Caverns Mine Train/Mine Train Thru
> Nature's Wonderland. I wish Big Thunder Mtn RR took up that much space
> in the back of Frontierland/along the river.
>
> I wish a new, slow, western National Park-exploring, mine train was
> built/opened in Frontierland.
>
> That would be so cool.

I have been interested in the Mine Train Thru Nature's Wonderland (the
successor of the Rainbow Caverns Mine Train depicted in that film) for
quite some time. As many people know, I am working on a model
railroad in HO scale (1/87) based on this attraction. I've gathered
quite a few photos, drawings, and other media related to it so we can
build the best model possible. Some of these photos are available in
web quality on our server (http://www.RainbowCaverns.com).

We are interested in obtaining copies of any photos, films, or slides
of any scenes we don't have. We are also very interested in
information and items from Mineral Hall, the fluorescent rock and
mineral shop next to the Mine Train which was open from 1956 to 1963
(http://www.MineralHall.com).

However, to address some of your questions, I have put together a web
page which might be of interest to this group
(http://www.rainbowcaverns.com/NWvBT.html). It has a brief history of
the area and some photos from my archive. I will probably improve it
over time but it will get things started.

Actual construction of the model is going slowly but we have had good
success in gathering the information. Right now, I am building the
model of Mineral Hall.

James D. Keeline
San Diego, CA

Bob Dobbs

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Mar 20, 2003, 3:30:21 AM3/20/03
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voice from the past wrote:
>
> dscve...@aol.compazine (Michelle Smith) wrote in message news:<20030318165945...@mb-cg.aol.com>...
> > >The loss or the pruning away of the Nature's Wonderland ride was a
> > >pruning away of a part of Walt Disney's legacy, and stands for me as
> > >the worst thing that ever happened to Disneyland.
> >
> > Really? Odd that you would say that, as an Imagineer you say is a friend of
> > yours was personally responsible for the changeover.
> >
> > Fab
> >
> > "Life sucks. And because life sucks, places like Walt Disney World exist.
> > And it is my job to see that for the few hours or days that a guest stays
> > with us. Life doesn't suck." ~ Art Yet Lew
>
> I can't agree with everything my friends do or have done, but that is
> one train wreck: literally.
>
> I loved the train around the little waterfall and the tunnel and the
> trestle and the animals; the feeling of being in the desert, the gyser
> and the wonders of the caverns and the beautiful colored pools. It
> really felt every bit like watching the nature films, in all their
> warmth. It was a great little trip, and the narration was by an old
> codger that later speaks only to say: "Watch those hats and glasses!"
> at Thunder Mountain.

I'm with ya.
I think Thunder at twilight(low sun, long shadows) is very pretty.. but
the Painted Desert and Walt's Mine Train thru the Rainbow Caverns and
Mine Train thru Natures Wonderland were completely gorgeous!


> To my knowledge I never actually met the Imagineer who was part of the
> Thunder Mountain project;

Tony Baxter?

>
> Thunder Mountain is indeed fun, but I think it would have been a great
> ending to the gentle journey through the desert to suddenly have a
> "spirit" come upon the train that made it wild in the mountain for a
> thrilling conclusion.

I agree... 90% of the Mine Train(and surroundings) should have been left
as is.. and the last 10% of the ride altered for thrill. The colorful
pools in the 1st lift cave of Thunder(paying respectful tribute and
homage to the once gorgeous Rainbow Caverns) sure are pretty, but far
too brief and surely don't make up for the truly incredible man-made
National Park that Walt Disney had built(and improved and tweaked over
the years) that was there before Thunder Mtn(and Thunder trail and
Thunder Ranch).

The Mine Train(and it's incarnations) at DL .. one of the greatest and
possibly most beautiful amusement attractions ever made.
--
"Here in Southern California, a new land has come into being. It's
purpose is enlightenment. It's product, happiness. This place is
Disneyland U.S.A.
Disneyland could only happen in a country where freedom is a heritage
and where the pursuit of happiness is a basic human right."
. . .

Bob Dobbs

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Mar 20, 2003, 5:24:49 AM3/20/03
to

> >
> > It sure looks like it from an old People & Places: "Disneyland" episode.
> >
> > If the Painted Desert/outlaying Frontierland Mine Train 'desert scenary'
> > was really THAT large.. wow.
> > That's so cool.

>

> I have been interested in the Mine Train Thru Nature's Wonderland (the
> successor of the Rainbow Caverns Mine Train depicted in that film) for
> quite some time. As many people know, I am working on a model
> railroad in HO scale (1/87) based on this attraction. I've gathered
> quite a few photos, drawings, and other media related to it so we can
> build the best model possible. Some of these photos are available in
> web quality on our server (http://www.RainbowCaverns.com).

NICE! Very nice! :)
Those cool pics bring back so many memories of such a beautiful area and
such a wonderful time.

> We are interested in obtaining copies of any photos, films, or slides
> of any scenes we don't have. We are also very interested in
> information and items from Mineral Hall, the fluorescent rock and
> mineral shop next to the Mine Train which was open from 1956 to 1963
> (http://www.MineralHall.com).

I'm still looking thru this section. It's really nice and so cool to see
also.


> However, to address some of your questions, I have put together a web
> page which might be of interest to this group
> (http://www.rainbowcaverns.com/NWvBT.html). It has a brief history of
> the area and some photos from my archive. I will probably improve it
> over time but it will get things started.

I love the NWvsBT page. The pics and your write up.
Very nice, very cool.

Thank you for the post.. you have some great webpages that really do
show much respect to the Mine Train and show how beautiful it really
was.


> Actual construction of the model is going slowly but we have had good
> success in gathering the information. Right now, I am building the
> model of Mineral Hall.


Good Luck. :)
I love would to see pics of the model as it progresses.

voice from the past

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Mar 20, 2003, 12:08:16 PM3/20/03
to
>
>
> > To my knowledge I never actually met the Imagineer who was part of the
> > Thunder Mountain project;
>
> Tony Baxter?
>
The lady whose father-in-law had something to do with getting me into
WDI was named Howard. I figured if she didn't want to tell me more
than she did, I shouldn't ask.

> >
> > Thunder Mountain is indeed fun, but I think it would have been a great
> > ending to the gentle journey through the desert to suddenly have a
> > "spirit" come upon the train that made it wild in the mountain for a
> > thrilling conclusion.
>
> I agree... 90% of the Mine Train(and surroundings) should have been left
> as is.. and the last 10% of the ride altered for thrill. The colorful
> pools in the 1st lift cave of Thunder(paying respectful tribute and
> homage to the once gorgeous Rainbow Caverns) sure are pretty, but far
> too brief and surely don't make up for the truly incredible man-made
> National Park that Walt Disney had built(and improved and tweaked over
> the years) that was there before Thunder Mtn(and Thunder trail and
> Thunder Ranch).
>
> The Mine Train(and it's incarnations) at DL .. one of the greatest and
> possibly most beautiful amusement attractions ever made.

Agreed. Beautiful in setting, beautiful in design and forethought,
distinguished in its ability to draw out deep thoughts of wellbeing.
I believe it would be a step ahead to recreate it in exact detail and
fit it with tube tracks that lead to Thunder Mountain. Make a
pedestrian subway.

voice from the past

Michelle Smith

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Mar 20, 2003, 12:16:17 PM3/20/03
to
>>
>> > To my knowledge I never actually met the Imagineer who was part of the
>> > Thunder Mountain project;
>>
>> Tony Baxter?

>The lady whose father-in-law had something to do with getting me into
>WDI was named Howard. I figured if she didn't want to tell me more
>than she did, I shouldn't ask.

Tony Baxter was in charge of Big Thunder. It was his brainchild.

Fab

"Life sucks. And because life sucks, places like Walt Disney World exist.
And it is my job to see that for the few hours or days that a guest stays

with us. Life doesn't suck." -Art
2 wrongs don't make a right. But 3 lefts do.
Who would Jesus bomb?

Ben

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Mar 20, 2003, 7:37:02 PM3/20/03
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Bob Dobbs wrote,

>>(http://www.RainbowCaverns.com).
>
>NICE! Very nice! :)
>Those cool pics bring back so many memories of such a beautiful area and
>such a wonderful time.

Wow.. those are some great pics. I never got a chance to ride the mine train
or experience any of the things in those pictures (I wan't born until two years
after they closed).

Looking at those picture though, really makes me jealous, and actually make me
like Big Thunder a little less...

/me get's back to work on his time machine...

>Thank you for the post.. you have some great webpages that really do
>show much respect to the Mine Train and show how beautiful it really
>was.

This is very true. It seems very elaborate... and at times delightfully
cheesy. I especially like the way all the different attractions (the train,
the pack mules, the stage coach) all seemed to sort of weave in and out of
eachother. Quite realistic in that way, and I'm sure in other ways too.

Does anybody know of any websites that offer pictures like this of
Adventureland throughout the years?


~Ben

"I love Mickey Mouse more than any woman I have ever known." --Walt Disney

**The preceding post was either the specific opinion of the author, or some
lame attempt at humor... but most likely it was both.

Ben

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Mar 20, 2003, 7:54:14 PM3/20/03
to
I have a question about the Mine Train ride:

Was there any narration on the train as you passed? I assume that there was..
similar to the narration that the Jungle Cruise used to have... prior to the
latest back of unappreciative jokes.

If this is the case, then lets imagine that the Mine Train was still around, in
basically the same form it was once in.

Do you think that the Mine Train, if arround today would be updated with the
same kinds of "I hate my job... isn't Disneyland so corny?" jokes that the
Jungle Cruise has now-a-days?

Michelle Smith

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Mar 20, 2003, 8:02:41 PM3/20/03
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>Was there any narration on the train as you passed?

It was prerecorded. I posted the soundtrack to alt.binaries.multimedia.disney
about three months ago.

Ben

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Mar 21, 2003, 12:06:31 AM3/21/03
to
>
>>Was there any narration on the train as you passed?
>
>It was prerecorded. I posted the soundtrack to
>alt.binaries.multimedia.disney
>about three months ago.

Ok... I figured. Was the Jungle Cruise spiel also prerecorded at that time?
I've heard recordings of Thurl (I think) doing the JC spiel, and it had some
corny jokes. Was the Mine Train narration done like that as well?
Informative, with some cheesy "True-Life Adventure"-style jokes thrown in?

If so, or even if not, what do you think this ride would be like if it was
still around today? I don't mean what do you HOPE it would still be like
(though feel free to express those thoughts as well). I mean what do you
THINK? Would it be similiar to the Jungle Cruise in presentation?

Bob Dobbs

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Mar 21, 2003, 4:01:11 AM3/21/03
to

>
> >Thank you for the post.. you have some great webpages that really do
> >show much respect to the Mine Train and show how beautiful it really
> >was.
>
> This is very true. It seems very elaborate... and at times delightfully
> cheesy. I especially like the way all the different attractions (the train,
> the pack mules, the stage coach) all seemed to sort of weave in and out of
> eachother. Quite realistic in that way, and I'm sure in other ways too.

It sure looked like the busseling westide version of TL. So much motion,
so much action and movement.

Before Team Disney decided each land(except for Fantasyland) should only
have no more than 3 *maximum* open attractions.

Bob Dobbs

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Mar 21, 2003, 4:11:22 AM3/21/03
to

> I have a question about the Mine Train ride:
>
> Was there any narration on the train as you passed? I assume that there was..
> similar to the narration that the Jungle Cruise used to have... prior to the
> latest back of unappreciative jokes.
>
> If this is the case, then lets imagine that the Mine Train was still around, in
> basically the same form it was once in.
>
> Do you think that the Mine Train, if arround today would be updated with the
> same kinds of "I hate my job... isn't Disneyland so corny?" jokes that the
> Jungle Cruise has now-a-days?

It was a recorded spiel from what I remember.
The Disneyland Forever sound clip of it is so fun to listen to.
Like the old Adventure Thru Inner Space 'show' soundtrack .. so many
memories of the past.

Those are still my 2 fave attractions at DL of all time(Mine Train and
ATIS), nothing since IMO has come close to the way they used to make me
feel. Wonder, mystique, mystery.
Both very slow and 'take it all in rides, both massive legendary
E-tickets in entertainment and re-ridablity and imaginative creativity.

George W. Bush

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Mar 21, 2003, 11:44:45 AM3/21/03
to
The full ATIS attraction recording(s) appear every now and again at
alt.binaries.multimedia.disney.

The CD offered at www.atommobiles.com is excellent. For that matter,
the site is also rather fantastic.

-Jeff

Bob Dobbs

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Mar 22, 2003, 3:14:45 AM3/22/03
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The above site is AWESOME!!

Thanx for posting the URL!
I had no idea the site existed. :)

voice from the past

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Mar 22, 2003, 2:34:09 PM3/22/03
to
>
> Tony Baxter was in charge of Big Thunder. It was his brainchild.
>
> Fab

Yes, I learned that.

voice from the past

Bob Dobbs

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Mar 23, 2003, 4:51:54 AM3/23/03
to

> > Tony Baxter was in charge of Big Thunder. It was his brainchild.


Tis what I thought.
Does aanyone know why was it's footprint so small? Why so much of the
Mine Ride was wasted for Thunder's small footprint? Did DL really need a
backtrail to Fantasyland, a petting zoo, another restaurant and another
'theater'?

Also what's with the extemely anti-climactic ending of BTMRR? Ran out of
ideas? Budget? Ran out of room alloted by Disney for a new ride?
--
All who come to this happy online place.. WELCOME!
şoş Chat: http://dumptv.com/disneychat/
RCT 1&2 : http://geocities.com/ocseRCT

Ben

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Mar 23, 2003, 7:07:26 PM3/23/03
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Bob wrote,

>Also what's with the extemely anti-climactic ending of BTMRR? Ran out of
>ideas? Budget? Ran out of room alloted by Disney for a new ride?

I've always wondered about the ending of that ride as well. That ride does
have a couple of good hills... but at the end they send you through all this
earthquake stuff (why are the walls shaking violently while the train is
swaying gently?)... then we go up a hill, and then we coast back into station.

It's kind of funny to hear the whole train full of people go start a scream
that turns into a confused sort of groan.

"WOOOoooo..ohhhhhh...."

Guv

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Mar 24, 2003, 9:38:24 PM3/24/03
to
Bennigan's wrote:

>It's kind of funny to hear the whole train full of people go start a scream
>that turns into a confused sort of groan.
>
>"WOOOoooo..ohhhhhh...."

Sounds like a couple of my more unfortunate Friday nights...

All the best,

Guv

Ben

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Mar 25, 2003, 12:49:42 AM3/25/03
to
>>It's kind of funny to hear the whole train full of people go start a scream
>>that turns into a confused sort of groan.
>>
>>"WOOOoooo..ohhhhhh...."
>
>Sounds like a couple of my more unfortunate Friday nights...

Thanks for the heads up...
..um.. I mean..

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