Graves Beats a Dead Horse
George Graves
>
> > Why are Jews always singled out? That's an easy one. Because we're smart,
> > we're able to adapt to any country we live in, and we are able to become
> > successful. That just burns your little white trash ass, doesn't it? You
> > NEED a scapegoat, because otherwise, you might have to take responsibility
> >for your OWN sorry life, instead of having the Jews to blame it on.
> ====================================================================
> Don't you mean try to take over every country you live in? BTW, I love the
> assumptions you Jews and other liberals make about people's sorry lives.
> Believe me, being a racists or an anti-semite has nothing whatsoever to
> do with a person's personal success or happiness. But you assume that
> anyone who doesn't believe your sick liberal filth must be some kind of
> unhappy failure looking for someone to blame. Well lady, it just ain't so.
> That's just as much (or even more of) a stereotype than you libs accuse
> we racists of making-up.
> =====================================================================
>
> I have not yet seen a single country that Jews have successfully taken
> over. Let's see, they are in Russia, Germany (oops, wrong), England,
> France, Italy, United States (a little corruption of congressmen, but who
> doesn't do that including the japanese), south american, etc. No countries
> they head there. I think Disraeli was Jewish and was PM in Britain for
> awhile; he seems to have relinquished his hold when he was voted out,
> though, and that's not very conspiratorial, is it?).
>
> Jews are great. They are inventive, hard working, industrious, and just
> want to participate. I have no problem with them. Much rather have Jews
> around than murdering, city-killing savages. Don't have to feed them with
> food stamps; in fact, they pay taxes. What more could a bigot like me
> want? Absolutely nothing. If the blacks, native Americans, and immigrants
> were so good, I'd be off this newsgroup. I don't objective to a person's
> racial inheritance, just to their behavior as a group; if they get better
> and become productive, they fall from my shit list immediately. I am an
> equal opportunity bigot. However, I hold the line at affirmative action.
> You have to EARN your way off my shit list once you get on it.
Frank, those "savages" get away with what they do, and are on welfare,
and get light (or no) prison sentences PRECEISLY because the Jew is their
advocate. When I was a college student, fighting for civil rights (yeah, I
know. I'm not too proud of it either), we would go down to Mississippi
and Alabama to "march" etc. The marchers might have been dewey-eyed
liberal college kids (just doin' what monkeys do), but the instigators
were ALL 35 year old+ JEWS (at least all of them that I saw were).
Ever notice that a large majority of TV sitcoms have black casts, as
if the blacks constituted a major portion of the U.S. population? Check
out the names of the producers and writers of these shows: Saul
Turttletaub, Norman Lear, Murray Shapiro, Leon Abrhamovitz etc.,
etc.
George Graves
mark pierro
>
>In article <schwartz-281...@cmh-p109.infinet.com> schw...@infinet.com
> (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
>
>
>Well, at least that makes him better than the "Reverend" Schoedel, who
>won't answer when questioned if he still schtupps a live dog . . .
As opposed to a dead one?<:-)
Harry Katz
George Graves (gmgr...@aimnet.com) engages in his favorite pastime,
Jew-bashing:
Frank, those "savages" get away with what they do, and are on
welfare, and get light (or no) prison sentences...
This is not the main point of the article, but every survey and study
ever done shows that Afro-Americans receive disproportionately tough
prison sentences.
...PRECEISLY because the Jew is their advocate.
Just one more slander against Jews that Mr. Graves will never be able
to substantiate. But he has never let the facts interfere with his
favorite pastime of Jew-bashing before!
When I was a college student, fighting for civil rights (yeah,
I know. I'm not too proud of it either), we would go down to
Mississippi and Alabama to "march" etc.
It looks like Mr. Graves has no independent political convictions of
his own, but blows in the wind. Back when radical civil rights was
in vogue, he was marching right along. Now that reactionary racism
is in style, he changes his convictions along with his hairstyle.
The marchers might have been dewey-eyed liberal college kids
(just doin' what monkeys do), but the instigators were
ALL 35 year old+ JEWS (at least all of them that I saw were).
And Mr. Graves can tell a Jew just by looking! This is the kind of
circumstantial evidence that Mr. Graves takes seriously: vague
impressions. He never did bother to identify all of the leaders of
the movement and exactly how many of them were Jewish because that
would bypass his prejudice and might not yield the result he craves.
Ever notice that a large majority of TV sitcoms have black
casts, as if the blacks constituted a major portion of the
U.S. population?
No, but I did notice that Mr. Graves makes the most outrageous
assertions without a single, solitary shred of evidence. I bet he
cannot tell us how many sitcoms there are on television this season,
much less how many are devoted to Blacks! (Not to mention that the
Afro-American community has complained many times that these shows in
no way reflect the reality of their lives.)
Check out the names of the producers and writers of these
shows: Saul Turttletaub, Norman Lear, Murray Shapiro,
Leon Abrhamovitz etc., etc.
Does Mr. Graves expect us to believe that these shows are not on the
air because they make money? That Jewish producers are going broke
promoting Black sitcoms out of principle? Wasn't "The Cosby Show"
rated number one among all audiences for many years?
Not to mention that Mr. Graves is not about to list the names of all
television sitcom producers who have created Black sitcoms so we can
have some perspective. No, he will only list these four Jewish
producers and ignore the dozens of others who are not Jewish.
--
Harry Katz
Even he who lives on charity should practice benevolence.
-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.
Harry Katz
Why are Jews always singled out? That's an easy one. Because
we're smart, we're able to adapt to any country we live in,
and we are able to become successful. That just burns your
little white trash ass, doesn't it? You NEED a scapegoat,
your OWN sorry life, instead of having the Jews to blame it on.
George Graves (gmgr...@aimnet.com) whines:
Don't you mean try to take over every country you live in?
Once again, Mr. Graves smears all Jews with his tarred brush without
offering a single, solitary scrap of evidence to back him up.
BTW, I love the assumptions you Jews and other liberals make
about people's sorry lives.
I do not know about other racists, but Mr. Graves does give every
indication that he leads a sorry life.
Believe me, being a racists or an anti-semite has nothing
whatsoever to do with a person's personal success or happiness.
On the contrary, racism has been very good to Greg Raven and Willis
Carto, who could not have succeeded at any other endeavor in life,
but manage live very cushy lives thanks to their promotion of hatred.
But you assume that anyone who doesn't believe your sick liberal
filth must be some kind of unhappy failure looking for someone
to blame. Well lady, it just ain't so.
Not at all! It is not that Mr. Graves does not believe "sick liberal
filth." It most definitely is that Mr. Graves has been actively
blaming others for his own failings, as he continues to do in this
very post!
That's just as much (or even more of) a stereotype than you
libs accuse we racists of making-up.
Mr. Graves, as expected, misses a particularly important distinction.
Stereotypes are always based on factors that the individual victim
cannot help or remedy. For example, Mr. Graves' characterization of
Jews is something that I did nothing to create and can do nothing to
dispell, yet he does indeed apply it to me.
On the other hand, the characterization of racists derives from their
own words and deeds. No one said that so-called "White" people as a
whole are losers looking for someone to blame -- that would be a
stereotype. But to say that Mr. Graves is looking for someone to
blame is to merely summarize his own words. That Mr. Graves feels in
some way unsuccessful in life (which can happen even if he has all
the trappings of success outwardly) we deduce from the insistence
with which he blames Jews in spite of the fact that he has never
presented a single, solitary shred of evidence to back it up.
--
Harry Katz
The learned man should judge himself according to his own teaching,
and not do anything that he has forbidden others to do.
George Graves
Katz, try bullshitting some of the schlemiels on this NG, but don't try
it on me. It won't work. I know what you are, I know what you're about,
and I'm not buying it. Go sell your liberal-Jew papers elsewhere!
George Graves
George Graves
any points here. (in fact, Katz, no one is. Both sides of these little
'debates' are so entrenched in their beliefs, that nothing gets through
to the other side. It jusst so happens that MY side is right.) So go on
back to alt.jews-are-love where you belong.
George Graves
George Graves
>
> In article <30E922...@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves (gmgr...@aimnet.com) engages in his favorite pastime,
> Jew-bashing:
>
> Frank, those "savages" get away with what they do, and are on
> welfare, and get light (or no) prison sentences...
>
> This is not the main point of the article, but every survey and study
> ever done shows that Afro-Americans receive disproportionately tough
> prison sentences.
>
> ...PRECEISLY because the Jew is their advocate.
>
> Just one more slander against Jews that Mr. Graves will never be able
> to substantiate. But he has never let the facts interfere with his
> favorite pastime of Jew-bashing before!
>
> When I was a college student, fighting for civil rights (yeah,
> I know. I'm not too proud of it either), we would go down to
> Mississippi and Alabama to "march" etc.
>
> It looks like Mr. Graves has no independent political convictions of
> his own, but blows in the wind. Back when radical civil rights was
> in vogue, he was marching right along. Now that reactionary racism
> is in style, he changes his convictions along with his hairstyle.
Once again, Mr. Katz uses his extraordinary powers of deduction to ferret
out the "truth" and comes up.....WRONG AGAIN!. You Jews had me when I was
a kid, That much is true. But I pulled back from the abyss at an early age
and wised-up. I might have been a Jew brainwashed liberal college kid at
18, but by twenty, I had recovered (and BTW, radical civil rights was still
in vogue at that time, but not with me).
You ADMIT that reactionary racism is "in style"? Never thought I'd hear
a Jew say that! Do your handlers know that you have committed this -
faux pas? Tsk, tsk, tsk Mr. Katz. I'll bet you get twenty lashes with a
stiff carp for that one!
====================================================================
>
> The marchers might have been dewey-eyed liberal college kids
> (just doin' what monkeys do), but the instigators were
> ALL 35 year old+ JEWS (at least all of them that I saw were).
>
> And Mr. Graves can tell a Jew just by looking! This is the kind of
> circumstantial evidence that Mr. Graves takes seriously: vague
> impressions. He never did bother to identify all of the leaders of
> the movement and exactly how many of them were Jewish because that
> would bypass his prejudice and might not yield the result he craves.
Yeah, I can. I could look at a picture of you, for instance, and without even
knowing who it was, my reaction would be: "Oy Vey, Vat a Jew!"
====================================================================
>
> Ever notice that a large majority of TV sitcoms have black
> casts, as if the blacks constituted a major portion of the
> U.S. population?
>
> No, but I did notice that Mr. Graves makes the most outrageous
> assertions without a single, solitary shred of evidence. I bet he
> cannot tell us how many sitcoms there are on television this season,
> much less how many are devoted to Blacks! (Not to mention that the
> Afro-American community has complained many times that these shows in
> no way reflect the reality of their lives.)
I don't even care, Katz. Were it but ONE, it would be one too many. I'm not
running a school for anti-Jews here, or compiling an encyclopedia. These
are my opinions, based on years of study and observation. I don't give a rat's
ass for quoting the kind of 'chapter and verse' bibliography for which you
and your trained lackeys are always asking. (why bother, none of you would
check 'em out anyway.) Its just mental masturbation. I could say anything.
Like: "American Network TV Schedule, 1995-1996: A Complete Listing by
Show With Key Personnel" Published by A. H. Nielsen and Company, New York.
You schmucks would never know the difference. But that would be lying
====================================================================
> Check out the names of the producers and writers of these
> shows: Saul Turttletaub, Norman Lear, Murray Shapiro,
> Leon Abrhamovitz etc., etc.
>
> Does Mr. Graves expect us to believe that these shows are not on the
> air because they make money? That Jewish producers are going broke
> promoting Black sitcoms out of principle? Wasn't "The Cosby Show"
> rated number one among all audiences for many years?
Yeah, and they could make EVEN more money with WHITE sitcoms. Simple
demographics would show that there are more TV watching white families
than there are black, just by sheer numbers alone. But that doesn't advance
the agenda does it Katz?
====================================================================
>
> Not to mention that Mr. Graves is not about to list the names of all
> television sitcom producers who have created Black sitcoms so we can
> have some perspective. No, he will only list these four Jewish
> producers and ignore the dozens of others who are not Jewish.
>
> --
> Harry Katz
Katzy, those names are available to ANYBODY with a TV who cares enough to
watch the wretched shows (they aren't funny. That's AN OPINION and a fact).
I mentioned a couple, but why waste the space to mention 'em all. The point
is made.
(ever get the idea that I don't take Katz and his backpedeling very seriously?
He's like a plasterer trying to cover a crack in the ceiling that just keeps
going, and going, and going..........)
George Graves
====================================================================
>
> Even he who lives on charity should practice benevolence.
Harry Katz
Mr. Graves, as expected, misses a particularly important
distinction. Stereotypes are always based on factors that the
individual victim cannot help or remedy. For example,
Mr. Graves' characterization of Jews is something that I did
nothing to create and can do nothing to dispell, yet he does
indeed apply it to me.
On the other hand, the characterization of racists derives from
their own words and deeds. No one said that so-called "White"
people as a whole are losers looking for someone to blame --
that would be a stereotype. But to say that Mr. Graves is
looking for someone to blame is to merely summarize his own
words. That Mr. Graves feels in some way unsuccessful in life
(which can happen even if he has all the trappings of success
outwardly) we deduce from the insistence with which he blames
Jews in spite of the fact that he has never presented a single,
solitary shred of evidence to back it up.
In article <30EB0B...@aimnet.com>,
George Graves (gmgr...@aimnet.com) finds he cannot refute me, so he
opts instead to abuse me:
Katz, try bullshitting some of the schlemiels on this NG,...
So, Mr. Graves considers people who read this newsgroup to be
"schlemiels!" Well, being a schlemiel is much better than being a
schlemazel!
...but don't try it on me. It won't work.
I know better than to try to bullshit the master of bullshit! I also
know something that Mr. Graves apparently does not: That bullshit is
easily discovered, which is why I never indulge in it.
What Mr. Graves is pleased to characterize as "bullshit" is actually
the way I point out when he is bullshitting!
I know what you are, I know what you're about,...
Swami Graves sees all and knows all!
...and I'm not buying it.
I was not offering anything for sale to Mr. Graves, but I am not
surprised that he will not buy into the truth.
Go sell your liberal-Jew papers elsewhere!
Once again, unable to counter my arguments, Mr. Graves tries to bully
me off the internet. If he cannot stand to be exposed then he is the
one who ought to leave.
--
Harry Katz
An envious man frowns when his neighbor rejoices.
Harry Katz
George Graves (gmgr...@aimnet.com) complains:
You aren't fooling anybody Katz.
Since I was not trying to fool anybody, I am not disappointed with
these results!
We know your agenda.
Indeed! My agenda is quite transparent and I would be surprised if
no one could deduce what it is -- survival! I am fighting for my
life and my family's lives with the only effective weapon available
-- the truth -- against those who would repeat the Holcoaust if they
could.
You aren't making any points here. (in fact, Katz, no one is.
Both sides of these little 'debates' are so entrenched in their
beliefs, that nothing gets through to the other side.
I am not trying to convince Mr. Graves or any of his cronies of
anything. I know their minds are shut tight. But I will not let
Mr. Graves continue to spout his lies and slanders without
challenging him. Some innocent bystander might actually believe him
if he goes unchallenged. And there is also a matter of honor
involved, which is something Mr. Graves does not seem to understand.
It jusst so happens that MY side is right.)
It also happens that his side cannot come up with a single, solitary
scrap of evidence to prove they are right! In fact, every time I
point this out, Mr. Graves has a hissy fit, and writes something like
this:
So go on back to alt.jews-are-love where you belong.
Once again, unable to counter my arguments, Mr. Graves resorts to
pitiable attempts to bully me off the net.
--
Harry Katz
The just of all nations have a portion in the future reward.
Gord McFee
>>
>> And Mr. Graves can tell a Jew just by looking! This is the kind of
>> circumstantial evidence that Mr. Graves takes seriously: vague
>> impressions. He never did bother to identify all of the leaders of
>> the movement and exactly how many of them were Jewish because that
>> would bypass his prejudice and might not yield the result he craves.
>==================================================================== Yeah,
>I can. I could look at a picture of you, for instance, and without even
>knowing who it was, my reaction would be: "Oy Vey, Vat a Jew!"
>==================================================================== >
You really are clueless, aren't you George?
--
Gord McFee
.. I'll write no line before its time(gmc...@ibm.net)
-- MR/2 2.26 #331
Harry Katz
George Graves (gmgr...@aimnet.com) confessed:
When I was a college student, fighting for civil rights (yeah,
I know. I'm not too proud of it either), we would go down to
Mississippi and Alabama to "march" etc.
I commented:
It looks like Mr. Graves has no independent political
convictions of his own, but blows in the wind. Back when
radical civil rights was in vogue, he was marching right along.
Now that reactionary racism is in style, he changes his
convictions along with his hairstyle.
In article <30EB17...@aimnet.com>,
George Graves (gmgr...@aimnet.com) takes his best shot:
Once again, Mr. Katz uses his extraordinary powers of deduction
to ferret out the "truth" and comes up.....WRONG AGAIN!.
If Mr. Graves will read what I wrote again, he will see the phrase,
"It looks like..." Unlike Mr. Graves, I do not believe that I see
all and know all, and I am glad to be corrected if I make a mistake.
I figured that if I was wrong Mr. Graves would correct me, and I see
that I was right about that.
You Jews had me when I was a kid, That much is true. But I
pulled back from the abyss at an early age and wised-up. I might
have been a Jew brainwashed liberal college kid at 18, but by
twenty, I had recovered (and BTW, radical civil rights was still
in vogue at that time, but not with me).
All very interesting, but I note that nowhere does Mr. Graves
substantiate that any real Jews were involved in his "brain-washing,"
although I am quite sure that all sorts of imaginary "Jews" who ppulate
his mind were indeed involved.
You ADMIT that reactionary racism is "in style"? Never thought
I'd hear a Jew say that!
In spite of his bristling at the suggestion that his political
convictions are based on the most recent fads, Mr. Graves seems to
think that what is "in style" is an extremely important factor.
Do your handlers know that you have committed this - faux pas?
Just because Mr. Graves and his cronies all have handlers, does not
mean that everyone in the world has handlers. Unlike him, I answer
to no one but myself.
Tsk, tsk, tsk Mr. Katz. I'll bet you get twenty lashes with a
stiff carp for that one!
Well, at least one thing is certain -- it won't be Mr. Graves' "stiff
carp!"
Mr. Graves' original post continued:
The marchers might have been dewey-eyed liberal college kids
(just doin' what monkeys do), but the instigators were
ALL 35 year old+ JEWS (at least all of them that I saw were).
To which I replied:
And Mr. Graves can tell a Jew just by looking! This is the kind
of circumstantial evidence that Mr. Graves takes seriously:
vague impressions. He never did bother to identify all of the
leaders of the movement and exactly how many of them were Jewish
because that would bypass his prejudice and might not yield the
result he craves.
And he responds:
Yeah, I can. I could look at a picture of you, for instance, and
without even knowing who it was, my reaction would be: "Oy Vey,
Vat a Jew!"
As usual, when at a loss for arguments, Mr. Graves falls back on
Jew-baiting. Now, I would not claim to be able to determine that Mr.
Graves is a blustering bigot just by looking at a picture, unless he
was drooling or staring vacantly into space. I rely on verifiable
evidence, like his own words as recorded in these posts.
His original post continued:
Ever notice that a large majority of TV sitcoms have black
casts, as if the blacks constituted a major portion of the
U.S. population?
I responded:
No, but I did notice that Mr. Graves makes the most outrageous
assertions without a single, solitary shred of evidence. I bet
he cannot tell us how many sitcoms there are on television this
season, much less how many are devoted to Blacks!
Which elicits this from Mr. Graves:
I don't even care, Katz. Were it but ONE, it would be one too
many.
As usual, when caught in a lie the racists pretend not to care. If
one sitcom featuring Blacks is too many, then why not say so in the
first place, instead of trying to con people with the
pseudo-authoritative pronunciamento, "a large majority...!"
I'm not running a school for anti-Jews here,...
No, but he is fishing for naive recruits for his cronies' "school for
anti-Jews!" And it irks him when his propaganda balloons burst so
easily under closer examination.
...or compiling an encyclopedia.
Nor is he digging for the truth!
These are my opinions, based on years of study and observation.
Based on the erroneous assumption that he can tell a Jew by looking
at him! In other words, every time he "observes" something he does
not like he immediately knows it must be the work of "Jews."
Notice that Mr. Graves has promised to post his "observations" of
"circumstantial evidence" against Jews as soon as he can organize his
"thoughts" but still has not delivered. He expects us to take his
word for it that his "observations" are trustworthy -- even after he
was caught in an erroneous "observation" and responded with, "I don't
care!"
I don't give a rat's ass for quoting the kind of 'chapter and
verse' bibliography for which you and your trained lackeys are
always asking.
Naturally, when one does not "give a rat's ass" for the truth what is
the point of documenting it?
(why bother, none of you would check 'em out anyway.) Its just
mental masturbation. I could say anything.
He already has demonstrated this skill when he said, "a large
majority," without the slightest care as to its truth! But he is
wrong about checking his statements out. I called him on it and here
he is backing down, though not very gracefully.
Like: "American Network TV Schedule, 1995-1996: A Complete
Listing by Show With Key Personnel" Published by A. H. Nielsen
and Company, New York. You schmucks would never know the
difference.
Les Griswold has tried that gambit many a time, and he has always
been caught red-handed! Mr. Graves knows he would fare no better, so
instead of actually doing it, he creates this fantasy where he does
it and gets away with it. Then he tries to palm this fantasy off on
the internet!
But that would be lying
That has never stopped him before!
My last post continued:
Does Mr. Graves expect us to believe that these shows are not on
the air because they make money? That Jewish producers are
going broke promoting Black sitcoms out of principle? Wasn't
"The Cosby Show" rated number one among all audiences for
many years?
To which he responds:
Yeah, and they could make EVEN more money with WHITE sitcoms.
Simple demographics would show that there are more TV watching
white families than there are black, just by sheer numbers
alone.
Mr. Graves missed my last sentence about the Cosby Show. Despite his
"simple demographics" -- actually, simple-minded demographics -- most
"White" families preferred to watch Bill Cosby to any other sitcom.
The problem is that Mr. Graves insists on stereotyping "White" people
as well as Blacks and Jews. Mr. Graves would like to deprive those
of us who enjoy the performances of talented entertainers of our
freedom of choice based on his personal taste, or lack thereof.
But why does Mr. Graves ignore the obvious preferences of his own
race? He unwittingly answers this question himself, though he is
projecting:
But that doesn't advance the agenda does it Katz?
Only the truth -- something that Mr. Graves does not "give a rat's ass"
for -- will advance my agenda.
My original rebuttal continued:
Not to mention that Mr. Graves is not about to list the names of
all television sitcom producers who have created Black sitcoms
so we can have some perspective. No, he will only list...
four Jewish producers and ignore the dozens of others who are
not Jewish.
Mr. Graves responds:
Katzy,...
"Katzy..." So far, this is Mr. Graves' most intelligent and
effective argument!
...those names are available to ANYBODY with a TV who cares
enough to watch the wretched shows...
Which makes it all the more suspicious that Mr. Graves cannot be
bothered to actually prove his case! But he will probably come back
with the same argument he uses above: He really doesn't care and
even one Jewish producer is too many! You would think that
television was a branch of the federal government, not a private,
profitable business.
...(they aren't funny. That's AN OPINION and a fact).
This is Mr. Graves' whole problem in a nutshell! He cannot
distinguish between opinion and fact, or between fantasy and
reality. But even if his taste were impeccable, cynics have been
carping ever since television began that it is an intellectual
wasteland. Nevertheless, the public decides, and if Mr. Graves
thinks he has a message worth paying for, then he can start his own
production company.
I mentioned a couple, but why waste the space to mention
'em all.
Perhaps to prove that the "couple" he mentioned are not "all of them!"
Unless, of course, he cannot prove any such thing.
The point is made.
Indeed! The point is made that Mr. Graves evades the point.
(ever get the idea that I don't take Katz and his backpedeling
very seriously?
I am crushed, truly. I thought that Mr. Graves went out of his way
to slander Jews and Judaism just so he could hear from me.
But I get the feeling that Mr. Graves does not take his own
reputation very seriously, telling bald and transparent lies and
foaming at the mouth whenever I point them out.
He's like a plasterer trying to cover a crack in the ceiling
that just keeps going, and going, and going..........)
Whereas Mr. Graves is like the man whose roof had so many holes in it
he didn't have enough pots, pans, and pails to catch the water that
leaked in when it rained. When a friend asked why he didn't fix the
roof, he answered, "I can't because it's raining out!" When asked
why he didn't fix it when it stopped raining, he replied, "When it's
not raining, the roof doesn't leak, you damned fool!"
--
Harry Katz
Go to sleep without supper, but rise without debt.
George Graves
>
> (ever get the idea that I don't take Katz and his backpedeling
> very seriously?
>
> ran into me!
>
> --
> Harry Katz
Yeah, Katz. You just bring out my better side!
George Graves
George Graves
Nice backpedaling there, Katzy. I'm not going to bother answering each
point here, because we have covered this ground over and over. I will
say, however, that NOTHING I have ever posted here is a lie. I would
use false "references" if I wanted to lie, and believe me, I am clever
enough to do it so that you couldn't check them out. But I would never
do that. We both have an agenda. Yours is to keep the conspiracy hidden
at all costs. Mine is to get people to look for it and thereby expose it.
I am happy to report that my results are encouraging. I have had at least
20 people write me an E-mail note thanking me for lifting the veil from
their eyes. I'm only one person, but if those twenty convince twenty, and
each of those twenty convince twenty.........
George Graves
George Graves
Being a MAJOR schlemazel yourself (as well as a putz and a schmuck), you
should certainly know! (oh, and I forgot you're also a twat [copyright Les
Griswold, 1995])
===================================================================
>
> ...but don't try it on me. It won't work.
>
> I know better than to try to bullshit the master of bullshit! I also
> know something that Mr. Graves apparently does not: That bullshit is
> easily discovered, which is why I never indulge in it.
Never indulge in it? Katz your so full of it, your eyes are brown!
====================================================================
>
> What Mr. Graves is pleased to characterize as "bullshit" is actually
> the way I point out when he is bullshitting!
I'm not bullshitting Mr. Jew, and YOU know it! Its your job to go on the
net and try to discredit those who know about the conspiracy and who
are opening other's eyes about it. You should see the POSITIVE private
E-mail I get! Regardless of what you think you are doing Mr. Evil Jew,
I'm succeeding at my self appointed task. I have rescued many from
your people's brainwashing.
====================================================================
> I know what you are, I know what you're about,...
>
> Swami Graves sees all and knows all!
I certainly know you Mr. Katz. All to well.
====================================================================
>
> ...and I'm not buying it.
>
> I was not offering anything for sale to Mr. Graves, but I am not
> surprised that he will not buy into the truth.
At least someone who is selling something gives the buyer a choice. With
you Jews its subtrafuge, brainwashing, and manipulation. Shame on you!
====================================================================
>
> Go sell your liberal-Jew papers elsewhere!
>
> Once again, unable to counter my arguments, Mr. Graves tries to bully
> me off the internet. If he cannot stand to be exposed then he is the
> one who ought to leave.
Once again, the great Mr. Katz is wrong. I was suggesting that he go try
his BS on others on this NG, because it has no effect on me. Typically,
he took it to mean that I was trying to bully him off the internet. I
couldn't do that, even if I wanted to. Mr. Katz, does however, show classic
Jewish thinking here. Since the Jews are in favor of curbing anyone's
ideas which differ from their agenda, they think that everybody believes
this way. It never occurs to Jews that there are people who take liberty
of thought seriously eneough to have principles about it, since they have
no such principles.
Given that, it is no wonder that Mr. Katz and Mr. Rosenberg see threats of
one type or another hiding behind every post.
George Graves
====================================================================
>
> --
> Harry Katz
>
> An envious man frowns when his neighbor rejoices.
Marty Kelley
> George Graves <gmgr...@aimnet.com> writes:
>
> >Harry Katz wrote:
>
> Am I imagining things, or is it revisionists who are always too damned
> stupid to edit messages to which they are replying? Don't they ever learn
> the elementary point of netiquette that it's shit-brained to clog up the
> newsgroup with long messages that are over 50% cite?
I pointed the same thing out to Mr. Graves, and he replied, rather
testily, that he re-posted EVERYTHING as a matter of "courtesy" so that
newcomers tot he conversation would see everything in context. He
apparently failed to consider that those already following a thread (the
majority of readers, I'd assume) would have to wade through tons of dross
to find his new contributions. He's not quite as bad as Tom Moran, who
re-posts entire FAQs with only a one-line comment, but he's close.
As for figuring out the context of a given thread: it's fairly easy,
especially since most posts (depending on one's server) stay around for
several days. And if something important has been missed, it's OK to ask
for a re-post.
To add to what I said before, even if we can't all just get along, could we
at least PLEASE use our goddamn text editors?
----------------------
Marty Kelley (mke...@U.Arizona.EDU)
"I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't
got the guts to bite people themselves" --August Strindberg
Charles R.L. Power
Gord McFee
>
>Gord McFee wrote:
>>
>> In <30EB17...@aimnet.com>, gmgr...@aimnet.com said:
>>
>> >>
>> >> And Mr. Graves can tell a Jew just by looking! This is the kind of
>> >> circumstantial evidence that Mr. Graves takes seriously: vague
>> >> impressions. He never did bother to identify all of the leaders of
>> >> the movement and exactly how many of them were Jewish because that
>> >> would bypass his prejudice and might not yield the result he craves.
>> >====================================================================
Yeah,
>> >I can. I could look at a picture of you, for instance, and without even
>> >knowing who it was, my reaction would be: "Oy Vey, Vat a Jew!"
>> >==================================================================== >
>>
>> You really are clueless, aren't you George?
>Obviously I'm not as clueless are you are, Mr. Jew-dupe.
That's right, Mr. Graves--you are far *more* clueless than I can ever aspire
to be.
George Graves
>
> On 6 Jan 1996, Charles R.L. Power wrote:
>
> testily,
Sorry friend, I wasn't being testy about my editing of posts, I was being
testy about being E-mailed on what should have been an NG matter. I don't
like E-mail on these matters because it then becomes a private debate,
which, other than giving vent to each participant's spleen, does nothing
for the NG.
George Graves
=====================================================================
George Graves
>
> In <30ED15...@aimnet.com>, George Graves <gmgr...@aimnet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >[...] Since the Jews are in favor of curbing anyone's
> >ideas which differ from their agenda, they think that everybody believes
> >this way. It never occurs to Jews that there are people who take liberty
> >of thought seriously eneough to have principles about it, since they have
> >no such principles.
>
> in all Jewish people is no doubt included in Mr. Graves' non-existent
> post (promised by January 1/96) of his "at least a dozen examples" of
> "circumstantial evidence" of "the Jewish conspiracy".
You jews and Jew-dupes keep refering to the evidence that I said I
would post by 1/1/96. I posted that evidence the week of Dec. 24.
Many have seen it and commented on it. If you missed it, that's
your problem, but don't keep telling others on this NG that I didn't
keep my word, because I did. Just another lie to add to the fabric
of falsehood and deceit which holds together the Zionist Conspiracy.
George Graves
Hilary Ostrov
>[...] Since the Jews are in favor of curbing anyone's
>ideas which differ from their agenda, they think that everybody believes
>this way. It never occurs to Jews that there are people who take liberty
>of thought seriously eneough to have principles about it, since they have
>no such principles.
And the evidence which would substantiate these serious deficiencies
in all Jewish people is no doubt included in Mr. Graves' non-existent
post (promised by January 1/96) of his "at least a dozen examples" of
"circumstantial evidence" of "the Jewish conspiracy".
hro
=======================
Hilary Ostrov
e-mail: hos...@uniserve.com
http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/myssiwyg.html
Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
Marty Kelley
> Marty Kelley wrote:
> >
> > On 6 Jan 1996, Charles R.L. Power wrote:
> >
> > > George Graves <gmgr...@aimnet.com> writes:
> > >
> > > >Harry Katz wrote:
> > >
> > > Am I imagining things, or is it revisionists who are always too damned
> > > stupid to edit messages to which they are replying? Don't they ever learn
> > > the elementary point of netiquette that it's shit-brained to clog up the
> > > newsgroup with long messages that are over 50% cite?
> >
> > I pointed the same thing out to Mr. Graves, and he replied, rather
> > testily,
> ====================================================================
> Sorry friend, I wasn't being testy about my editing of posts, I was being
> testy about being E-mailed on what should have been an NG matter. I don't
> like E-mail on these matters because it then becomes a private debate,
> which, other than giving vent to each participant's spleen, does nothing
> for the NG.
Sorry, Mr. Graves; what I sent you was a copy of a post to the
newsgroup--that would be why it included the lines:
>>>Posted and E-mailed. Followups to alt.revisionism, please. E-mailed
replies to this message will be posted to Usenet unless otherwise
requested by sender<<<
All of which are intended to keep the discussion public. That you
mistook a forwarded post from the newsgroup as an attempt to privately
bother you is regrettable. You did, however, manage to reply to my post
in Usenet, rather than by private e-mail, so I'm not quite sure what the
problem is, old pal.
Michael P. Stein
George Graves <gmgr...@aimnet.com> wrote:
>I don't give a rat's
>ass for quoting the kind of 'chapter and verse' bibliography for which you
>and your trained lackeys are always asking. (why bother, none of you would
>check 'em out anyway.)
How could people have jumped on Les Griswold for citing a source
which did not say what he claimed (FBI crime reports regarding
interracial rape) if they had not checked it out?
[Harry Katz:]
>> Does Mr. Graves expect us to believe that these shows are not on the
>> air because they make money? That Jewish producers are going broke
>> promoting Black sitcoms out of principle? Wasn't "The Cosby Show"
>> rated number one among all audiences for many years?
>====================================================================
>Yeah, and they could make EVEN more money with WHITE sitcoms. Simple
>demographics would show that there are more TV watching white families
>than there are black, just by sheer numbers alone. But that doesn't advance
>the agenda does it Katz?
Actually, Mr. Graves, they could make the MOST money by providing
sitcoms for both groups! Those advertisers targeting white audiences will
buy space on shows targeted to whites (assuming for the sake of argument
that there really is such a thing), while those advertisers targeting
blacks will buy space on black-oriented shows.
The principal point to see here is that the market has been increased.
The whites only have so many dollars no matter how many shows are aired.
Beyond a certain point any additional shows dilute the market. This is
because people's ability to consume TV programming is very finite. If
Channel 4 is filled with shows I want to watch 24 hours a day, seven days
a week, then no matter how much I want to watch a program on Channel 7, I
can't just add it to all my other shows. I have to give something up. By
providing programming designed to appeal to blacks as well, their dollars
enter the market in addition to the white dollars.
Very clever, these JOOSH capitalists. (In fact, the cable network
Black Entertainment Television is not JOOSH, as far as I know, and it
seems to me they're doing just fine.)
Posted/emailed.
--
Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.
Hilary Ostrov
wrote:
[snip]
>You jews and Jew-dupes keep refering to the evidence that I said I
>would post by 1/1/96. I posted that evidence the week of Dec. 24.
>Many have seen it and commented on it. If you missed it, that's
>your problem, but don't keep telling others on this NG that I didn't
>keep my word, because I did. Just another lie to add to the fabric
>of falsehood and deceit which holds together the Zionist Conspiracy.
Since courtesy and civility would appear to be foreign concepts to Mr.
Graves (along with knowledge of the vagaries of USENET), I would
appreciate it if one of those "many" who have seen this alleged
"evidence" post would be kind enough to repost and/or e-mail it to me.
Posted and not e-mailed.
George Graves
>
> In article <30EB0B...@aimnet.com>, George Graves <gmgr...@aimnet.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Harry Katz wrote:
> > >
> > > Frank Weltner wrote:
> > >
> > > Why are Jews always singled out? That's an easy one. Because
> > > we're smart, we're able to adapt to any country we live in,
> > > and we are able to become successful. That just burns your
> > > little white trash ass, doesn't it? You NEED a scapegoat,
> > > because otherwise, you might have to take responsibility or
> > > your OWN sorry life, instead of having the Jews to blame it on.
> > >
>
> attributed to him. I did.
>
> Why do we make assumptions about your intellectual capacity and success?
> Because they aren't assumptions. They are realizations, based on simple
> facts like... you STILL don't know how to properly quote or attribute
> quotes.
>
> My 8-year-old can do it.
>
> Sara
Dumb-ass! Look at the above quote! Harry Katz is the one who attributed
that post to Weltner not me. I was quoting Katz! So its one of your own
kind who screwed up. It is another JEW Who: "STILL do(es)n't know how to
properly quote or attribute quotes."
I hope your 8-year-old is smarter than her mother.
George Graves
Laura Finsten
[racial slurs deleted; minor editing for continuity]
>I posted th[e] evidence the week of Dec. 24.
>Many have seen it and commented on it. If you missed it, that's
>your problem, but don't keep telling others on this NG that I didn't
>keep my word, because I did.
Well I missed the evidence, too. I'm new to this ng, and I don't read it as
often as I'd like to. Would you do us "Jews and Jew-dupes" a favour and repost
it?
Sara aka Perrrfect
> Harry Katz wrote:
> >
> > Frank Weltner wrote:
> >
> > Why are Jews always singled out? That's an easy one. Because
> > we're smart, we're able to adapt to any country we live in,
> > and we are able to become successful. That just burns your
> > little white trash ass, doesn't it? You NEED a scapegoat,
> > because otherwise, you might have to take responsibility or
> > your OWN sorry life, instead of having the Jews to blame it on.
> >
As a matter of fact, Mr. Graves... Weltner didn't make the statement you
attributed to him. I did.
Why do we make assumptions about your intellectual capacity and success?
Because they aren't assumptions. They are realizations, based on simple
facts like... you STILL don't know how to properly quote or attribute
quotes.
My 8-year-old can do it.
Sara
--
"Who CARES if Hitler killed six million jews, or sixty million? He
identified the problem facing post-WWI Germany, and took decisive action to protect HIS people."
The Wit and Wisdom [sic] of Les Griswold
Alexander Baron
> Hilary Ostrov wrote:
> >
> > In <30ED15...@aimnet.com>, George Graves <gmgr...@aimnet.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >[...] Since the Jews are in favor of curbing anyone's
> > >ideas which differ from their agenda, they think that everybody believes
> > >this way. It never occurs to Jews that there are people who take liberty
> > >of thought seriously eneough to have principles about it, since they have
> > >no such principles.
> >
> > And the evidence which would substantiate these serious deficiencies
> > in all Jewish people is no doubt included in Mr. Graves' non-existent
> > post (promised by January 1/96) of his "at least a dozen examples" of
> > "circumstantial evidence" of "the Jewish conspiracy".
I think when Mr Graves refers to "the Jews" he is probably referring to
a number of powerful and forever wailing and gnashing of teeth Jewish
organisations, those I refer to as "Organised Jewry". No one seriously
contends that "the Jews" means everyone who calls himself or is called
a Jew. As I've stated before, this is a dirty trick of semantics used
by Jewish propagandists to silence dissent. When people attack "the Americans"
or "the police" or whoever, it is understood that they are attacking the
American administration, certain police officers and so forth. "The Jews" are
no exception.
--
Alexander Baron
"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the
accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy
Caesar
pot...@mo.net "Frank Weltner" writes:
> "Jews can never be believed, especially if they deny they are Jewish. It
> is our job to discover the truth. To determine whether a non-cooperative
> patient is a Jew or an Aryan, you slice him from his anus to his throat,
> going forward through gonads, liver, and other organs. If the patient
> bleeds, he is a Jew. If he does NOT bleed, he is an Aryan. Are there any
> questions?"
>
Reliable test...........NOT!!!!!!!!
--
Caesar
--
Michael Paterson
>Subject: Evidence of the Zionist Conspiracy Part 1 (second post attemp)
>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 19:12:53 +0000
>85% of all major American newspapers are owned and/or edited, and
>controlled by Jews.
>Examples:
>New York Times - Owner/Publisher: Arthur Ochs Sulzberger
>LA Times - Publisher: David Laventhol
>Atlanta Constituition - Publisher: Arnold Rosenfeld
>Detroit Free Press - Publisher: Neil Shine
>Washington Post - Owner/Publisher: Katherine Meyer Graham
>There are many more.
>The Entire Communist movement was engineered and carried out
>by Jews. Karl Marx who 'invented' Communism was not only a Jew,
>but a friend and confidant of Theodore Herzl, author of the Protocols.
>Lenin, whose real name was Ulanov was a geschmott Jew (Geshmott
>is a Jewish term for one who changes his or her name to avoid being
>recognized as a Jew). Lenin's father, whose real name was Olavin
>changed it to Ulanov to avoid the Czars' pogroms. Leon Trotsky, one
>of the main instigators of the 1917 Russian Revolution, and Lenin's
>right-hand man was born Leon Bronstein. The Jewish European banker
>Arthur Rothschild helped to finance the revolution as did the Americans
>Fels (of soap fame) and Guggenhiem (co-founder of Macy's department
>store). J. P. Morgan, also a Jew, contributed millions to the Communist
>Revolution in Russia.
>The American, and thus the world economy is controlled by the Federal
>Reserve Bank. The head of this organization, the man who tightens and
>loosens the purse strings of the world's economy is the Jew Alan
>Greenspan. The Secretary of the United States Treasury is a Jew named
>Robert Rubin.
>The Chase Manhatten Bank, one of the nation's largest is run by S.C.
>Bernstein Inc. The Bank of America is contolled by Richard M. Rosenberg
>This is the root of modern so-called liberalism. The NEA is rife with
>Jews. They set curriculi based upon the above priciples. 90% of American
>schoolbooks are published by the firm of Harcourt Brace and Jovanovich.
Harcourt Brace & Jovanovich don't sound like Jewish names to me.
Comments, anyone?
>They are all designed to inculcate liberal ideas into the youth of
>America.
As opposed to Nazism, I presume?
>We have already seen how the newspapers are owned and/or controlled by the
>Jews, but television is the organ by which most people get "informed"
>today. Magazines are also a favorite form of "information"
>NBC - President: Brandon Tartikoff
>CBS - President: Laurence A. Tisch
>ABC - President: Steve Ross
Ross - Good Scottish name - or is he "geschmott" too?
>Time/Warner - President: Andrew Kaplan
>Time/Life - President: Gerald Levin
>Execitive vice president: Bertram Wasserman
>Gannett Publications - President: Allen Neuharth
>And they have too. American popular music, once the joy of the world, has
>been turned into an abomination which teaches the young to take narcotics,
>to rape, to ignore laws. The Jewish-Hollywood connection is an old story.
>In the guise of entertainment, the Jew inculcates all with his ideas and
>soon , just as the Protocols predict, these abominations become part of
>the collective culture. Ever notice that on every documentary or news show
>where an 'expert' has been brought in to expound upon the topic of the
>day, that expert is invariably, a Jew?
Well, I don't know George; this seems like pretty persuasive evidence.
I certainly get the impression that Jewish people must be lot smarter
than I thought if they've managed to cream off all the best stuff like
this. They must be hard, intelligent workers to have gotten so far. I
was especially interested to see how all those capitalist Jews helped
finance a revolution that was dedicated to their destruction - they
must have been really stupid. Makes you wonder how they became
multi-millionaires in the first place, doesn't it?
I happen to read Russian, George and not so long ago I was browsing
the Russian Internet looking for KGB documents - we're still looking
for "moles", George, you know, people planted here by the Commies
who've been underground ever since, and Western citizens who became
Russian agents and therefore traitors, because we still want to put
them away, see? We're getting a lot of cooperation from the new
regime, so we're making the most of it while it lasts. They're still
a bit queasy about turning in their own guys over here, but we're
making a lot of progress on the traitor front. J. Edgar would shit
gold bars if he was still with us!
Anyway, I found a document about the Protocols of Zion a few weeks ago
that was so interesting I noted down a few of the main points, and
I've done a quick little translation for you. (I should explain, the
Russians won't let us download stuff, they have it on file and you
can't even capture it with Paint Shop Pro - I guess I shouldn't
mention stuff like that.)
Two main suspects as author:
1. Ilya Tsion, elderly political journalist living in France in 1903
(when the Protocols were first published). Extreme reactionary... some
of the views were very close to his own.
Motivation:
1. To discredit political opponents
2. To impress the Tsar with the danger of liberals.
(The writer, who's only identified by initials, doesn't buy Tsion
though...)
2. Pyotr Ivanovich Rachkovsky, head of Tsarist secret service abroad.
Author of several anti-Semitic tracts; believed in existence of a
world-wide Jewish conspiracy, particularly directed at Russia.
Motivation:
1. Had many enemies, some passages believed to be oblique references
to them, to get them in trouble. One, a Jewish Russian official in
Paris was named by him: Effron, no first name or patronymic given.
(The only reason I know he's Jewish is because the writer says he is.)
Rachkovsky's HQ in Paris for 18 years until recalled in 1902...
Official sent to wind up the Paris office after the 1917 revolution,
reports one of Rachkovsky's aides admitted the Protocols forged in
Paris by order of Rachkovsky.
No mention of this Herzl chap at all, George. Looks like you've been
giving the wrong man the credit. It seems the Protocols caused a
worldwide sensation; typical Russian piece of "disinformation" -
they're the best in the world at it.
Don't know why the Russians included this stuff to show us, George.
They don't normally do anything without a very good reason. Maybe
they were just ratbagging us - that's where you can't be bothered to
help some out-of-town visiting fireman, so you just give him the
garbage files and let him root through until he gets fed up and quits
bugging you.
All this stuff was in among some documents about a proposal to have
Jews identified as such on their internal passports - to move around
Russia under the Commies you had to have your internal passport
stamped, George and if you didn't - off to Perm for 10 years strict
regime - 1200 calories a day, hard labour and no nonsense.
I hope I haven't disappointed you George - better men than you have
been duped by the Russians - for some reason your country seems to
have produced huge numbers of traitors, as the Comms were too smart to
spend billions on research; they just paid a few hundred bucks to
guys working on secret projects and got all the data without putting
in the time and trouble of doing the research. Clever people, hey?
I'd sure like to see a list of Aryan Nation success stories George -
is it true that Les has nearly paid off his own trailer!? - but you
know, something more than that. Anyone got a car paid for? Anyone
graduate from high school? Anyone NOT working as a janitor somewhere?
We need those success stories, George, if we're going to compete
against those clever Jewish guys you were kind enough to let us know
about.
Anyway, I really enjoyed your posting George, you've given me a new
respect for the Jews when I see how well they've done. I'll look
forward to your next posting and in the meantime, I'll be posting the
Griswold docs very shortly and I'll keep you updated with anything
else my colleagues dig up.
Cheers!
Mike
Mi\cheil Rob Mac Pha\druig
druidh/duine-uasail
Sara aka Perrrfect
<fin...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca> wrote:
Me, too. I never saw it.
Please, someone, do re-post this wonder of research!
Jeanne Kowalewski
* In <4cs51t$2...@enigma.uniserve.com>, hos...@uniserve.com said:
*
* >
* >In <30EFB2...@aimnet.com>, George Graves <gmgr...@aimnet.com> wrote:
*
* >[snip]
*
* >>You jews and Jew-dupes keep refering to the evidence that I said I
* >>would post by 1/1/96. I posted that evidence the week of Dec. 24.
* >>Many have seen it and commented on it. If you missed it, that's
* >>your problem, but don't keep telling others on this NG that I didn't
* >>keep my word, because I did. Just another lie to add to the fabric
* >>of falsehood and deceit which holds together the Zionist Conspiracy.
*
* >Since courtesy and civility would appear to be foreign concepts to Mr.
* >Graves (along with knowledge of the vagaries of USENET), I would
* >appreciate it if one of those "many" who have seen this alleged "evidence"
* >post would be kind enough to repost and/or e-mail it to me.
*
* Hilary, to put it politely, Mr. Graves is full of it. What he posted was a
* rambling description of how the Protocols of the Elders of Zion revealed the
* genesis and depth of the Jewish world plot. As with most of Mr. Grave's
* posts, I trashed it. Bottom line: he promised a lot and delivered nothing.
*
*
* --
* Gord McFee
*
*
*
* .. I'll write no line before its time(gmc...@ibm.net)
* -- MR/2 2.26 #331
But wait! Y'all have a second chance to read that post and shake your
heads in wonder after finally seeing into the depths of George's
reasoning. I reposted it under the thread name _Dead Horse Whinneys Again_
earlier this afternoon.
Rev. Jeanne K.
Ordained Minister, Universal Life Church
"There are many humorous things in the world: among them the white man's notion
that he is less savage than the other savages."
‹ Mark Twain
Mark Van Alstine
(Frank Weltner) wrote:
> Dr. Mengeles, Famous Daring and Experimental Nazi Doctor:
>
> "Jews can never be believed, especially if they deny they are Jewish. It
> is our job to discover the truth. To determine whether a non-cooperative
> patient is a Jew or an Aryan, you slice him from his anus to his throat,
> going forward through gonads, liver, and other organs. If the patient
> bleeds, he is a Jew. If he does NOT bleed, he is an Aryan. Are there any
> questions?"
Gee, Weltner, are you saying that the "Aryans" were a bunch of anemic
cadavers? How apropo. A race of the living dead.
Mark
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts."
-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George Graves
Thank you for a very interesting and (mostly) well conceived post. I have
come across the Pyotr Ivanovich Rachkovsky connection before, but I
tend to discount it. Ilya Tsion, on the other hand, is a name I know well.
He was a Jew (Tsion is another spelling for Zion like Tsar is another way
to spell Czar) and a member of the first "World Zionist Convention" held
in Basil Switzerland in 1892. He was, in point of fact, Herzl's right-hand
man at that little gathering (Source: "Father Coughlin and the Zionists"
By Charles J. Tull, Syracuse University Press, 1962). He may have actually
been the scribe for the meeting (although I don't know this as fact and Tull
doesn't say what Tsion's actual duties were). If he was, then it is only
natural for him to have been the actual "author" of the 'Protocols' (being
that they are resolutions of a group of people, attributing authorship to
him would be like saying the U.S. Senate scribe is the author of the
'Congressional Record'). At any rate, he would have had a copy, and they
could have gotten away from him. There is no way of knowing.
I am not a memeber of the Arayan Nations organization, and can tell you
nothing about them. I post here to advance my arguments against
multiculturalism and the Jewish Conspiracy which supports it as well
as for my own amusement. I have a degree in Electronics Engineering,
and I run my own very successful technical marketing service. Anything
else about me that you would like to know?
George Graves
Alexander Baron
mphi...@access2.digex.net "Michael Philips" writes:
>there is no "Jewish
> Administration" or "Organized Jewry." To use such terms gives the
> appearance of antisemitism. If there are Jewish organizations or
> individuals you are critical of, then specify which ones.
Organised Jewry is NOT an anti-Semitic term. It matters not whether you
attack a specific Jewish individual or organisation, these slime will
smear you as anti-Semitic because that's the way they operate. If you don't
believe me ask the more Orthodox Jews or anyone, Gentile or Jew, who has
been involved in anti-Zionist activity. One British Moslem told me it was
not so much Organised Jewry as Organised blackmail.
George Graves
>
> In article <30EFB2...@aimnet.com>, George Graves <gmgr...@aimnet.com>
> wrote:
>
> :Hilary Ostrov wrote:
> :>
> :> In <30ED15...@aimnet.com>, George Graves <gmgr...@aimnet.com>
> :> wrote:
> :>
> :> >[...] Since the Jews are in favor of curbing anyone's
> :> >ideas which differ from their agenda, they think that everybody believes
> :> >this way. It never occurs to Jews that there are people who take liberty
> :> >of thought seriously eneough to have principles about it, since they have
> :> >no such principles.
> :> And the evidence which would substantiate these serious deficiencies
> :> in all Jewish people is no doubt included in Mr. Graves' non-existent
> :> post (promised by January 1/96) of his "at least a dozen examples" of
> :> "circumstantial evidence" of "the Jewish conspiracy".
> :You jews and Jew-dupes keep refering to the evidence that I said I
> :would post by 1/1/96. I posted that evidence the week of Dec. 24.
> :Many have seen it and commented on it. If you missed it, that's
> :your problem, but don't keep telling others on this NG that I didn't
> :keep my word, because I did. Just another lie to add to the fabric
> :of falsehood and deceit which holds together the Zionist Conspiracy.
> :
> :George Graves
>
> I saw it, but just because you posted it doesn't mean that its facts and
> interpretations are correct. Besides, Jews bake better than any other
> race.
>
> Umm, cookies, matzoh balls, pastrami, ham (ham?), bacon (bacon?), germans
> (germans?), palestinian al burno, etc., ....
Agreed (about the food too), but that's not the argument here. These people
keep posting that I did not post what I promised. If you don't want to
BELIEVE what I posted, so be it. But that's another story.
George Graves
George Graves
> : >controlled by Jews.
>
> : >Examples:
>
> : >New York Times - Owner/Publisher: Arthur Ochs Sulzberger
>
> : >LA Times - Publisher: David Laventhol
>
>
> : >Atlanta Constituition - Publisher: Arnold Rosenfeld
>
> Wrong. Roger Kintzel. The Constitution, by the way, is owned by Anne
> Cox Chambers, who is about as gentile as it is possible for one to be.
>
> : >Detroit Free Press - Publisher: Neil Shine
>
> : >Washington Post - Owner/Publisher: Katherine Meyer Graham
>
===================================================================
You are the one who's wrong Jerk. Donald Graham is K.M. Graham's
HUSBAND. She is both owner and executive publisher. Hubby works for
her. Daddy (old man Meyer, don't remember his first name, was a Jew
as is his daughter).
===================================================================
>
> : >There are many more.
>
> Oh, I'm sure. Since you've demonstrated above that you can't even do
> the most basic research without screwing up more than half the time,
> why should we believe this feeble claim?
====================================================================
Haven't screwed up yet. But its one away for you!
====================================================================
>
> : >The Entire Communist movement was engineered and carried out
> : >by Jews. Karl Marx who 'invented' Communism was not only a Jew,
> : >but a friend and confidant of Theodore Herzl, author of the Protocols.
> : >Lenin, whose real name was Ulanov was a geschmott Jew (Geshmott
> : >is a Jewish term for one who changes his or her name to avoid being
> : >recognized as a Jew). Lenin's father, whose real name was Olavin
> : >changed it to Ulanov to avoid the Czars' pogroms.
>
> Wrong. Lenin was not a Jew.
===================================================================
Lenin was a geschmott Jew. NOBODY in Czarist Russia changed their name
to hide from pogroms EXCEPT Jews! There would be no other reason to do
so. Olavin is a form of the name Levi (as is the name of the Israeli actress
Dahlia Lavi. Used here as an example), and Levi is as Jewish as you can get.
Strike two.
===================================================================
>
> : >Leon Trotsky, one
> : >of the main instigators of the 1917 Russian Revolution, and Lenin's
> : >right-hand man was born Leon Bronstein. The Jewish European banker
> : >Arthur Rothschild helped to finance the revolution as did the Americans
> : >Fels (of soap fame) and Guggenhiem (co-founder of Macy's department
> : >store). J. P. Morgan, also a Jew, contributed millions to the Communist
> : >Revolution in Russia.
>
> Wrong. J.P. Morgan was not a Jew.
===================================================================
J.P. Morgan. Real family name: Moganthau. Strike three, you're OUT. Take a
bench seat, Mr. Anderson.
====================================================================
>
> That's five very basic factual errors in the first few paragraphs of
> your screed, George. I'm getting tired of counting...
>
> Bill
You should be tired of making an ass out of yourself. Three pitches,
three strikes. You're 0 for 1, buddy.
George Graves
George Graves
>
> In article <30F304...@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves (gmgr...@aimnet.com) discusses the notorious forgery,
> "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion:"
>
> I have come across the Pyotr Ivanovich Rachkovsky connection
> before, but I tend to discount it.
>
> responsible for the "Protocols" but the reason is patently obvious.
> As Rachkovsky is not a Jew, and his authorship would establish
> conclusively that the work is a forgery, Mr. Graves cannot use it to
> bash Jews, so he "tends to discount it!"
>
> Ilya Tsion, on the other hand, is a name I know well. He was a
> Jew (Tsion is another spelling for Zion like Tsar is another way
> to spell Czar) and a member of the first "World Zionist
> Convention" held in Basil Switzerland in 1892. He was, in point
> of fact, Herzl's right-hand man at that little gathering
> (Source: "Father Coughlin and the Zionists" By Charles J. Tull,
> Syracuse University Press, 1962). He may have actually been the
> scribe for the meeting (although I don't know this as fact and
> Tull doesn't say what Tsion's actual duties were).
>
> very next sentence:
>
> If he was, then it is only natural for him to have been the
> actual "author" of the 'Protocols' (being that they are
> resolutions of a group of people, attributing authorship to
> him would be like saying the U.S. Senate scribe is the author
> of the 'Congressional Record').
>
> Convention held in Switzerland in 1892 produced minutes of the
> convention and they are not the "Protocols!" The text of the
> "Protocols" themselves do not mention any date, time, or place, and
> the Basil connection was invented.
>
> Furthermore, a comparison between the "Protocols" and the Congressional
> Record will quickly demonstrate that the former is an out-and-out
> forgery. The Congressional Record contains the details of debate and
> legislation that refer to real people, places, and events by name.
> The "Protocols" contain no debate, just a very long and tedious
> lecture about attaining political power in an abstract sense, with
> absolutely no references to any real people, places, and events
> whatsoever -- except a vague assertion that the "conspiracy" was
> responsible for the French Revolution.
>
> In other words, the "Protocols" contain formulations like, "We shall
> demoralize the labor force by introducing them to alcoholism." But
> what it does not contain is any formulations like this, "So-and-so
> will take over operations in Such-and-such country. He will report
> to So-and-so. So-and-so will report to him." Nor are there any
> formulations like this, "We found that Tactic X worked well for
> So-and-so in Such-and-such country, so we are advising all cells in
> all countries to adopt this tactic." In other words, the "Protocols"
> contain many ideas that could be disseminated via pamphlets and
> books, but none of the practical day-to-day details that require a
> convention for resolution.
>
> At any rate, he would have had a copy, and they could have
> gotten away from him. There is no way of knowing.
>
> convention. They were not "gotten away" from the "scribe" of the
> convention -- they were published by the convention!
>
> If the Basil convention had indeed produced the "Protocols" then the
> only conclusion an intelligent person could reach is that the
> convention was totally useless and conducted by the totally inept;
> that regardless of the egotistical rhetoric of the "Protocols" the
> authors are totally incapable of initiating and carrying through such
> a fantastic scheme.
>
> --
> Harry Katz
>
Katz, you make so many leaps in logic here, that it is difficult to
know where to start. You proceed from the belief that the 'Protocols'
are flase, yet you can provide no proof that they are. I, on the other
hand proceed from the premis that the 'Protocols' are real. The difference
is that I can look at 20th century history and see where each protocol
has been carried out. Many (although, not all) things mentioned in the
'Protocols' as a blueprint for world chaos and domination, have and are
taking place. I have posted the 'Protocols' in both PDF and plain text
format at my ftp site, for ANYONE to download.
They can read the 'Protocols' and see for themselves how most of
the methodology explained in the document HAS and IS taking place.
To me, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and this pudding tastes
like gefilte fish!
User: anonymous
password: gmgr...@aimnet.com
path: /pub/users/gmgraves/public.
I'm not afraid of putting my money where my mouth is, how about you?
George Graves
Frank Weltner
(Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
:In article <potato-0801...@pm0x26.dialip.mo.net>, pot...@mo.net
:(Frank Weltner) wrote:
:
:> Dr. Mengeles, Famous Daring and Experimental Nazi Doctor:
:>
:> "Jews can never be believed, especially if they deny they are Jewish. It
:> is our job to discover the truth. To determine whether a non-cooperative
:> patient is a Jew or an Aryan, you slice him from his anus to his throat,
:> going forward through gonads, liver, and other organs. If the patient
:> bleeds, he is a Jew. If he does NOT bleed, he is an Aryan. Are there any
:> questions?"
:
:Gee, Weltner, are you saying that the "Aryans" were a bunch of anemic
:cadavers? How apropo. A race of the living dead.
:
:Mark
:
Maybe heartless?
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Couch Potato <kouch...@stlnet.com> Creature of Wonderful Ideals
---------------------------------------------------------------------
)|(
(o o)
*=======================ooO-(_)-Ooo==========================*
Helping us all to find a kindler, gentler, view.
George Graves
> a
> the
> nothing.
> >>
> >with me, you would say that what I posted was inadequate irrespective of
> >how comprehensive it was. As for it being "rambling", nothing could be
> >further from the truth. It was very structureed. Protocol stated,
> >corroborating circumstantial evidence given. You might not like what I
> >posted (for whatever reason your personal agenda might dictate) but to
> >call it "rambling" is hardly fair or accurate.
>
> First of all Mr. Graves, it's Mr. McFee or Gord, but not McFee. Difficult
> as it is, try to show something more than the manners of an ignorant snot.
>
> Secondly, stop with the phony whining. My disagreeing with you has nothing
> to do with my posting that you promised a lot and delivered nothing. You
> promised an explanation of *your* views and all you trotted out were the
> 100-year old faked _Protocols_. You are so bereft of any original thinking
> that you have to rely on other peoples' forgeries--can't even make up your
> own.
>
> --
> Gord McFee
>
>
How do you know that the Protocols are fake McFee? Did somebody tell
you?
By the way, "Mr" is reserved for those who have earned my respect; first
names are for me and those I consider friends. Since you fall in neither
category, I shall continue to call you just plain McFee.
George Graves
Marty Kelley
> Most of this info about who does what is from books I own
> which are more than 10 years old. I don't have time to keep it
> updated. But that shouldn't matter (except to people who think this
> is a game and scoring points is all important).
Or those goofballs who insist on accuracy, factual proof, trivia like that...
[snip]
> I'm tired debating this issue with goyim who
> are lining up to be the next holocaust victims.
Your concern on "our" behalf is touching, Mr. Graves.
George Graves
> >are lining up to be the next holocaust victims.
>
If the goyim of this world don't wake-up, they will find themselves being
being led to the slaughter. That's what I mean.
George Graves
Fragano Ledgister
: Fragano Ledgister wrote:
: >
: > George Graves (gmgr...@aimnet.com) wrote:
: > : ===================================================================
: > : You are the one who's wrong Jerk. Donald Graham is K.M. Graham's
: > : HUSBAND. She is both owner and executive publisher. Hubby works for
: > Er, you mean he's publishing the paper from beyond the grave? Donald
: > Graham is Kay Graham's _son_
: >
: > : ====================================================================
: > : Haven't screwed up yet. But its one away for you!
: > : ====================================================================
: >
: > --
: > Dawn over the dark sea brings on the sun;
: > She leans across the hilltop: see, the light!
: > --------------------------------------------------------------------
: > fled...@weber.ucsd.edu
: OK. Hubby's name was also Donald. Didn't know the old boy kicked
: off. Anyway, the relatinship's the same K.M owns the thing, is
: Executive Publisher, and Sonny Boy works for her. Big deal Same
: family. Most of this info about who does what is from books I own
: which are more than 10 years old. I don't have time to keep it
: updated. But that shouldn't matter (except to people who think this
Old books, eh? Planning trips to Oubangi-Chari or the Soviet Union
soon? Approve of what Prime Minister Thatcher is doing these days?
If you make an assertion, you are responsible for it. And, yes,
you've screwed up quite a few times.
: is a game and scoring points is all important). I made the point that
: the media is under Jewish control. The names may change with the
: passing parade; people get old, retire, die, etc. but the hidden hand
: goes on. You want the contemporary stats? I suggest you go get them.
I don't particularly care who owns what paper or radio station
(though I might point out that such figures as Rupert Murdoch are
hardly Jewish). I do find this hidden hand interesting, though; how
do you demonstrate it? With outdated information? Outright lies
(Lenin & J.P. Morgan being Jewish, for example)?
: But whether you do or whether you don't, If what I allege is true, not
: finding a pat answer won't win you anything. If I'm wrong, my 25 years
: of studying this went for naught. You don't have anything to lose here,
Indeed they were.
: so why should you care? I'm tired debating this issue with goyim who
: are lining up to be the next holocaust victims.
When I read postings by bastards like you, I think of the 200,000
German gentiles who were sent to the showers by Schiklgrueber.
--
Dawn over the dark sea brings on the sun;
She leans across the hilltop: see, the light!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
fled...@weber.ucsd.edu
Richard Schultz
: In article <30FED7...@aimnet.com>, George Graves <gmgr...@aimnet.com>
: wrote:
: :EHHH1 Thanks for playing. Goyim means "human cattle" according to
: :my Yiddish dictionary. Trying to clean it up huh? Won't work. Too
: :many know what goy/goyim means.
: Actually, the word Goyim comes from the name of the first Phillistine city
: across the Jordan which the Israelites entered. As the first city, Goyim
: became a byword for "foreigner," because the first foreigners to the
: Israelites in their new land were called Goyim. Jews, I guess, must be a
: little slow. They are still using this word. I'd call this
: "traditionalism" in the extreme.
I realize that facts are of absolutely no interest to either of you, but
first of all, the first instance of the use of "Goyyim" as a place name
occurs in Genesis chapter 14, and the word "Goy" (both singular and plural)
is used to describe the *Hebrews themselves* (e.g. God's promise to
Abraham: "v'e'escha l'goy gadol" -- and I shall make you into a great
nation) well before Joshua appears on the scene.
Furthermore, according to Brown, Driver, and Briggs's dictionary (still
the standard source, written by three non-Jews), "goy" in the sense of
"nation" and "Goyyim" the place name are indeed two different words with
two different etymologies.
Not, as I said, that I expect this to matter to either of you, but I
thought it might be worthwhile to set the record straight for those for
whom the truth makes any difference.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
"It is terrible to die of thirst in the ocean. Do you have to salt your
truth so heavily that it does not even quench thirst any more?"
George Graves
Then why do Jews use it as a racial epithet and a slur when refering to
non-Jews in general and European Christian whites in particular? Makes
no sense to me.
GG
Josh Klein
> Richard Schultz wrote:
> > I realize that facts are of absolutely no interest to either of you, but
> > first of all, the first instance of the use of "Goyyim" as a place name
> > occurs in Genesis chapter 14, and the word "Goy" (both singular and plural)
> > is used to describe the *Hebrews themselves* (e.g. God's promise to
> > Abraham: "v'e'escha l'goy gadol" -- and I shall make you into a great
> > nation) well before Joshua appears on the scene.
[snip]
> Then why do Jews use it as a racial epithet and a slur when refering to
> non-Jews in general and European Christian whites in particular? Makes
> no sense to me.
First, George, I think that you would do well to publicly acknowledge
your error and issue a retraction. As you will recall, you explicitly
stated that the noun "goy" meant "human cattle" -- a statement which
several posters have shown to be utterly false. Indeed, Richard
Schultz shows that "the word 'Goy'... is used to refer to the Hebrews
themselves."
Second, though, I will give the only explanation I can think of for why
some Jews use the word 'goy' perjoratively. There are as many Jewish
bigots as there are bigots of any other tradition, and bigotry, as I'm
sure you know, is rather widespread in general. What is certain is that
not every use of the word 'goy' is insulting -- the word has an
ordinary definition, and is used quite often to mean simply what is
says (i.e. "nation"/), or what it has come to mean metonymously --
non-Jews.
--
Josh Klein
Amherst College
Sara aka Perrrfect
pot...@stlnet.com (Frank Weltner) wrote:
> :Then why do Jews use it as a racial epithet and a slur when refering to
> :non-Jews in general and European Christian whites in particular? Makes
> :no sense to me.
That's because Jew's DON'T use it as a racial epithet and slur, Mr. Graves.
In this NG, for instance, the person who uses the word "goy" most often is
Les Griswold.
I have yet to see a single Jew here use that term, for good or ill. Les is
the one who seems hell-bent on calling folks shabbas goyim, etc.
Sara
George Graves
>
> In article <310BA7...@aimnet.com>, George Graves <gmgr...@aimnet.com>
> wrote:
>
> :Richard Schultz wrote:
> :>
> :> Frank Weltner (pot...@stlnet.com) wrote:
> :> : In article <30FED7...@aimnet.com>, George Graves <gmgr...@aimnet.com>
> :> : wrote:
> :>
> :> : :EHHH1 Thanks for playing. Goyim means "human cattle" according to
> :> : :my Yiddish dictionary. Trying to clean it up huh? Won't work. Too
> :> : :many know what goy/goyim means.
> :>
> :> : Actually, the word Goyim comes from the name of the first Phillistine city
> :> : across the Jordan which the Israelites entered. As the first city, Goyim
> :> : became a byword for "foreigner," because the first foreigners to the
> :> : Israelites in their new land were called Goyim. Jews, I guess, must be a
> :> : little slow. They are still using this word. I'd call this
> :> : "traditionalism" in the extreme.
> :> I realize that facts are of absolutely no interest to either of you, but
> :> first of all, the first instance of the use of "Goyyim" as a place name
> :> occurs in Genesis chapter 14, and the word "Goy" (both singular and plural)
> :> is used to describe the *Hebrews themselves* (e.g. God's promise to
> :> Abraham: "v'e'escha l'goy gadol" -- and I shall make you into a great
> :> nation) well before Joshua appears on the scene.
> :> Furthermore, according to Brown, Driver, and Briggs's dictionary (still
> :> the standard source, written by three non-Jews), "goy" in the sense of
> :> "nation" and "Goyyim" the place name are indeed two different words with
> :> two different etymologies.
> :>
> :> thought it might be worthwhile to set the record straight for those for
> :> whom the truth makes any difference.
> :Then why do Jews use it as a racial epithet and a slur when refering to
> :non-Jews in general and European Christian whites in particular? Makes
> :no sense to me.
> :GG
>
> "There is no goy in Mudville. Might Casey had struck out."
>
> Does this answer your question, George?
Methinks I should stay out of Mudville then. Is that anywhere near Skokie Il?
GG
pgroff
( A great explaination by Mr. Schultz snipped)
>Then why do Jews use it as a racial epithet and a slur when refering to
>non-Jews in general and European Christian whites in particular? Makes
>no sense to me.
>GG
Mr. Graves, it would seem that it is you that wishes to contruse the
word Goyim to mean more what has been posted, which would indicate
that you probably find that word a slur, now how you get Goyim to mean
a hatred of European Christian Whites in particular, makes no sense
to me.
George Graves
>
> Let me first take a minute to untangle this thread:
>
> (1) Graves claimed that according to his (unnamed) Yiddish Dictionary,
> "goyim" means "human cattle."
>
> (2) Weltner responded with a completely bogus etymology for the (Hebrew)
> word "Goyim", linking it to a place name in the Biblical book of Joshua.
>
> (3) I pointed out that the Hebrew word "Goyim" meaning "nations" and the
> place name "Goyim" (which Weltner seemed not to have known first appears
> in Genesis, although the word "goyim" meaning nations appears earlier in
> the text than the place name does) are etymologically distinct, citing
> Brown, Driver and Briggs, a standard source (that happens to have been
> written by non-Jews). (BTW, since that post I looked up the words in
> Baumgartner, and he agrees that they are etymologically distinct.)
>
> Now, Weltner has not yet either produced any evidence for his original
> claim or had the grace to admit he made a mistake, but Graves has
> chimed in a second time, saying
>
> : Then why do Jews use it ("goyim") as a racial epithet and a slur when
> : refering to non-Jews in general and European Christian whites in
> : particular? Makes no sense to me.
>
> claim. In the first place, Jews do not use "goyim" as a *racial*
> epithet. It is true that in Yiddish, the word "goyim" was borrowed from
> Hebrew and came to mean specifically non-Jews, and frequently is used
> in a derogatory sense, as in the phrase "a goyische kop",
========================================================================
AHA! Thats all we needed to hear. Thank you Mr. Schultz for clearing this
up.
GG
========================================================================
i.e. someone
> with the mental capacity of Mr. Graves. I am not sure whether the word
> "goyim" for "non-Jews" was in common parlance among non-Yiddish speaking
> Jews. In his book _The Periodic Table_, Primo Levi mentions that in
> the part of Italy in which he grew up, the derogatory term for non-Jews
> was "arelim" (uncircumcised ones), for example.
>
> I'm not sure why the use of the word makes "no sense" to Mr. Graves.
> As it happens, the Yiddish language has incorporated a significant number
> of Hebrew words that do not always keep the same meaning in Yiddish
> as they originally had in Hebrew. (Consider, for example, the word
> "mitzvah," which in Hebrew means "commandment," but in Yiddish carries
> the primary meaning of "good deed.") Nor is that a peculiarity of Yiddish;
> one example that comes to mind is the word "extravagant," which, although
> derived from a French word, means something very different in English than
> it does in French.
>
> But this is all a digression and a diversion from the main points (so what
> else is new?), which are (1) Graves has yet to provide a citation for his
> claim that "goyim" means "human cattle" and (2) Weltner has yet to provide
> a citation that the *Hebrew* (as opposed to Yiddish) word "goyim" is
> derived from the Biblical place name. I have far too much experience of
> alt.revisionism to expect either of them to provide citations or, failing
> that, to admit the error.
Harry Katz
Goyim means "human cattle" according to my Yiddish dictionary.
If Mr. Graves owned a Yiddish dictionary he would have told us which
one it is and who published it. This is yet another attempt on his
part to pass off his distorted personal opinions as established facts.
There is no dictionary, Yiddish or Hebrew, that defines the word
"goy" or the word "goyim" as "human cattle" or any kind of cattle.
Trying to clean it up huh? Won't work. Too many know what
goy/goyim means.
It seems that these words will soon pass out of circulation among
Jews only to be adopted as a badge of honor among anti-Semites.
So far, the only people to use these words on the internet have been
anti-Semites attempting to make it appear that they, and all non-Jews,
are the targets of Jewish enmity.
Nevertheless, none of the Jews on the internet, and none that I know
off the internet, ever use the term anymore.
--
Harry Katz
He who wishes to be forgiven must forgive.
-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.
Richard Schultz
(1) Graves claimed that according to his (unnamed) Yiddish Dictionary,
"goyim" means "human cattle."
(2) Weltner responded with a completely bogus etymology for the (Hebrew)
word "Goyim", linking it to a place name in the Biblical book of Joshua.
(3) I pointed out that the Hebrew word "Goyim" meaning "nations" and the
place name "Goyim" (which Weltner seemed not to have known first appears
in Genesis, although the word "goyim" meaning nations appears earlier in
the text than the place name does) are etymologically distinct, citing
Brown, Driver and Briggs, a standard source (that happens to have been
written by non-Jews). (BTW, since that post I looked up the words in
Baumgartner, and he agrees that they are etymologically distinct.)
Now, Weltner has not yet either produced any evidence for his original
claim or had the grace to admit he made a mistake, but Graves has
chimed in a second time, saying
: Then why do Jews use it ("goyim") as a racial epithet and a slur when
: refering to non-Jews in general and European Christian whites in
: particular? Makes no sense to me.
This question, of course, has nothing whatsoever to do with Weltner's
claim. In the first place, Jews do not use "goyim" as a *racial*
epithet. It is true that in Yiddish, the word "goyim" was borrowed from
Hebrew and came to mean specifically non-Jews, and frequently is used
in a derogatory sense, as in the phrase "a goyische kop", i.e. someone
Gord McFee
>> Then why do Jews use it as a racial epithet and a slur when refering to
>> non-Jews in general and European Christian whites in particular? Makes
>> no sense to me.
>Second, though, I will give the only explanation I can think of for why
>some Jews use the word 'goy' perjoratively. There are as many Jewish
>bigots as there are bigots of any other tradition, and bigotry, as I'm
>sure you know, is rather widespread in general. What is certain is that
>not every use of the word 'goy' is insulting -- the word has an ordinary
>definition, and is used quite often to mean simply what is says (i.e.
>"nation"/), or what it has come to mean metonymously -- non-Jews.
That doesn't explain why Alexander Baron called me a goy once. :-)
--
Gord McFee
.. I'll write no line before its time(gmc...@ibm.net)
-- MR/2 2.26 #331
william c anderson
: > Let me first take a minute to untangle this thread:
: >
: > (1) Graves claimed that according to his (unnamed) Yiddish Dictionary,
: > "goyim" means "human cattle."
<snip>
: > This question, of course, has nothing whatsoever to do with Weltner's
: > claim. In the first place, Jews do not use "goyim" as a *racial*
: > epithet. It is true that in Yiddish, the word "goyim" was borrowed from
: > Hebrew and came to mean specifically non-Jews, and frequently is used
: > in a derogatory sense, as in the phrase "a goyische kop",
: AHA! Thats all we needed to hear. Thank you Mr. Schultz for clearing this
: up.
Meaning that you're once again refusing to support your claim, George?
What a surprise...
Bill
Gord McFee
George Graves
No, Mr. Anderson, I am simply stating that Mr. Schultz seems to know what
he is talking about, and I bow to his superior knowledge of the origin of the
word goy as a defamatory epithet. Thank you for you response.
GG
George Graves
how a Hebrew word meaning nations got transformed into a Yiddish word
used as a defamatory epithet (if anyone knows).
GG
Ottermorf
Richard Schultz
: And then, we have that old Yiddish Christmas Carole.
: "Goy to the World"
You forgot about "Jesu, Goy of Man's Desiring."
In the meantime, do you plan to either provide some source for your
"etymology" of the Hebrew word "Goy," or admit that it was, um, let us
say, on the rather fanciful side?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
"It would have been like discussing sundials with a bat."
pgroff
>william c anderson wrote:
>>
>> George Graves (gmgr...@aimnet.com) wrote:
>> : Richard Schultz wrote:
>> : >
>> : > Let me first take a minute to untangle this thread:
>> : >
>> : > (1) Graves claimed that according to his (unnamed) Yiddish Dictionary,
>> : > "goyim" means "human cattle."
>>
>> <snip>
(Mr. Andersons text snipped)
>No, Mr. Anderson, I am simply stating that Mr. Schultz seems to know what
>he is talking about, and I bow to his superior knowledge of the origin of the
>word goy as a defamatory epithet. Thank you for you response.
>GG
Mr. Graves, since you do indeed bow to Mr. Schultz's response, and
accept it, could you now tell us just what unnamed Yiddish Dictionary
you did reference that "goyim" means "cattle", or as you have accused
others, now changing the subject??
Gord McFee
>> That doesn't explain why Alexander Baron called me a goy once. :-)
>>
>>
>Ok, Mr. McFee, that makes sense. I would, however, certainly like to know
>how a Hebrew word meaning nations got transformed into a Yiddish word used
>as a defamatory epithet (if anyone knows).
I honestly did not know it was a Yiddish epithet.
pgroff
>In article <4f1jlv$e...@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>, sch...@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>(Richard Schultz) wrote:
>:Frank Weltner (pot...@stlnet.com) wrote, in response to my comment that:
>:
>::: Weltner has yet to provide a citation that the *Hebrew* (as opposed
>::: to Yiddish) word "goyim" is derived from the Biblical place name.
>::: I have far too much experience of alt.revisionism to expect [him] to
>::: provide citations or, failing that, to admit the error.
>:
>:the following scintillating comment:
>:
>:: Eat your skull cap.
>:
>:Just call me swami. . .
>Josh. 12:23
>...the king of Dor (in Naphoth Dor) one the king of Goyim in Gilgal...
>Herr, Goy, Rabbi, Father, Hey, You! or Mr. Schultz (Select whichever you
>prefer):
>Goy Boy Himself, The Ole' Couch Potato
(Mr. Weltner's self defined Goyim, snipped)
Mr. Weltner, your reference says "one the king of Goyim in Gilgal" now
without going into to much detail, it is clear to ME, that the king is
the king of Dor, which is in Gilgal, not Goyim, but rather he is a
king of Goyim. C'mon, don't you ever read the words you type??
Course, I have to wonder about you with Mr.White being excoriated by
you because he is black.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>The Couch Potato <pot...@stlnet.com> Creature of Wonderful Ideals
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Harry Katz
Let me first take a minute to untangle this thread:
(1) Graves claimed that according to his (unnamed) Yiddish
Dictionary, "goyim" means "human cattle."
In the first place, Jews do not use "goyim" as a *racial*
epithet. It is true that in Yiddish, the word "goyim" was
borrowed from Hebrew and came to mean specifically non-Jews,
and frequently is used in a derogatory sense, as in the phrase
"a goyische kop",...
George Graves (gmgr...@aimnet.com) responded:
AHA! Thats all we needed to hear. Thank you Mr. Schultz for
clearing this up.
In article <310F7F...@aimnet.com>,
George Graves (gmgr...@aimnet.com) elaborates:
...Mr. Schultz seems to know what he is talking about, and I bow
to his superior knowledge of the origin of the word goy as a
defamatory epithet.
What Mr. Graves has conveniently forgotten is that he claimed he had
a Yiddish Dictionary that defines goyim as "human cattle!"
Mr. Schultz's "superior knowledge" most definitely denies the
existence of this definition and this dictionary, and proves
that Mr. Graves has been lying!
But the fact that the word "goy" has been used as a pejorative mainly
by Yiddish speakers from Eastern Europe, does not change the fact
that the word is not common in modern usage among Jews, and can be
used in a totally neutral sense to mean simply "non-Jew."
But this discussion did not begin as an investigation into the word's
usage. Rather, it began with Mr. Graves' baseless accusation that
Jews -- that is, all Jews, not just some Jewish individuals --
consider all non-Jews to be "human cattle." But the only people in
this newsgroup who ever use the word "goy" are the anti-Semites
trying to blacken the image of Jews and Judaism by any means
necessary.
--
Harry Katz
Harry Katz
George Graves (gmgr...@aimnet.com) asks:
I would, however, certainly like to know how a Hebrew word
meaning nations got transformed into a Yiddish word used as
a defamatory epithet (if anyone knows).
As Yiddish is a language that was developed by Jews, it contains many
words that are borrowed from Hebrew. The real question is how the
Hebrew word meaning "nation" came to mean in Yiddish "a non-Jew,"
and I do not know the answer.
Once the word took on the meaning of "non-Jew" it was inevitable that
some Jews would use the word in a derogatory sense, as the Jews of
Eastern Europe were surrounded by Christian majorities who used the
word "Jew" in an equally derogatory sense.
It is worth noting that the use of this word, both in its derogatory
sense and in its neutral sense, among American children of Jewish
immigrants from Eastern Europe is declining. This can be directly
attributed to the atmosphere of religious freedom that was absent
from Eastern Europe.
--
Harry Katz
Rather be thou called a fool all thy days than walk one hour before the
All-Seeing Eye in evil ways.