SilkAir Crash?
mac
The SilkAir crash in Indonesia (Dec21st 97) has only just come to my
attention - I have a distant friend who works for SilkAir but I haven't had
contact from her recently (..thinks the worst).
Can you point my in the right direction to get more info. on this accident
(or pass some on directly).
many thanks.
Steve Kropla
On 12 Mar 1998 04:37:33 GMT, "mac" <mark_...@bc.sympatico.ca>
wrote:
SilkAir flight MI-185 was a 10-month-old Boeing 737-300 (newest in the
fleet) that inexplicably went into a supersonic nose-dive from 31,000
feet about 40 minutes into its two-hour flight from Jakarta to
Singapore. SilkAir is a unit of Singapore Airlines (SIA), and this
was the first crash in SIA's 50-year history.
Weather was not believed to be a factor, as it was generally clear
although some scattered thunderstorms had been reported in the area.
No distress calls were received, and all seemed routine until the
plane disappeared from radar.
Witnesses reportedly saw the plane break up during its descent. The
main fuselage submerged in the rapid, murky waters of the Musi River
near Palembang, Indonesia. All 104 aboard were lost, and the force of
the impact was such that most of the plane and its occupants
disintegrated. Some parts of the plane were found a mile or so away.
Both "black boxes" were recovered and shipped to the U.S. However,
they provided little in the way of clues as both stopped operating
while the plane was still in normal flight, apparently well in advance
of whatever went wrong.
Parts of the tail section that were recovered were found to have some
missing fasteners. This led to an FAA directive to inspect all 737
tails, but later it was determined that the fasteners probably
detached during the rapid descent and that they were not a factor in
the crash itself.
As investigators grew increasingly baffled, Aviation Week & Space
Technology first reported the possibility that suicide (and mass
murder) may have been the cause of the crash. This article is online
(or at least used to be) at
http://www.awgnet.com/aviation/avi_air.htm.
I posted the following in rec.travel.air two days ago. I normally
don't crosspost and I normally don't spend too much time in this NG
because of all the conspiracy kooks, but because your post seems
sincere and serious, here's the latest:
"Today's (10 March) Wall Street Journal ran a page 1 story describing
the various factors that have apparently led some investigators to
believe that the crash of MI 185 was deliberately brought about by the
actions of the pilot.
"As mentioned in the Aviation Week & Space Technology article earlier,
the sequence in which the CVR and FDR stopped operating form the basis
of the circumstantial evidence for this theory.
"Statements in the WSJ article squarely point to the captain.
Apparently, the CVR stopped working as he left the cockpit, possibly
to return some snack trays to the cabin. The co-pilot made a routine
(and the last) radio transmission from the plane about a minute later.
Shortly afterwards, the FDR stopped working while the plane was still
in level flight.
"The WSJ article speculates that the captain may have pulled the CVR
breaker as he left the cockpit, and pulled the FDR breaker upon his
return. The breakers are located on a panel behind the pilot's seat,
an area which it would have been difficult for the co-pilot to see,
especially if the captain was blocking the view.
"The captain had enjoyed a pretty illustrious career with SilkAir
until recently. According to the article, he had recently been
demoted from training captain to captain due to complaints that he was
a "cowboy" pilot that did not always follow the rules."
The pilot was a 41-year-old Singaporean, a veteran pilot (6900 hours)
who formerly flew with the SAF's version of the "Blue Angels." The
co-pilot was from New Zealand, and had a fair amount of flight time
even though he was only about 23 years old.
As for other sources, the Singapore Straights Times did have a special
section on the crash at their web site
(http://www.straightstimes.asia1.com), but it seems to have
disappeared. It included a passenger list and several features on the
crash, passengers aboard, and recovery efforts.
If you do a DejaNews power search on "SilkAir crash," you will find a
lot of earlier postings about this incident. There may be a passenger
list among those postings someplace.
I hope this helps, and I hope your friend is well and was not aboard
this tragic flight.
_____________________________________
Steve Kropla
Kingwood, Texas USA
To e-mail, replace "dot" with you-know-what
Help for World Travelers: http://kropla.com
Steve Kropla
To follow up the original inquiry, here is a list of the crew aboard
MI-185:
Captain: Tsu Way Ming, 41, Singapore (6900 flight hours)
First Officer: Duncan Maurice Ward, 23, New Zealand (2200 flight
hours)
Stewardesses (all from Singapore):
Ho Soo Phong, 29
Lai Mui Chui, 25
Pong Geetah Kristine, 22
Claudia Teo Buay Hong, 25
Syaibani Shaik Hassan, 19
This information was found at the Singapore Straits Times web site at
http://www.asia1.com/straitstimes/pages/silk122005.html.
The "special crash site" that the Straits Times had set up appears to
have vanished. However, several of the articles they ran from the
time of the crash up to 5 February can still be accessed at
http://straitstimes.asia1.com/pages/crashreport.html.
nic...@hotmail.com
In article <350a7dea...@news3.ibm.net>,
kropla@ibmdotnet (Steve Kropla) wrote:
>
> This information was found at the Singapore Straits Times web site at
> http://www.asia1.com/straitstimes/pages/silk122005.html.
>
> The "special crash site" that the Straits Times had set up appears to
> have vanished. However, several of the articles they ran from the
> time of the crash up to 5 February can still be accessed at
> http://straitstimes.asia1.com/pages/crashreport.html.
>
Urm I think http://straitstimes.asia1.com/pages/crashreport.html is the
"special crash site", which is extant and will continue to be updated for some
time.
> _____________________________________
> Steve Kropla
> Kingwood, Texas USA
> To e-mail, replace "dot" with you-know-what
> Help for World Travelers: http://kropla.com
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
nic...@hotmail.com
In article <3508f335...@news3.ibm.net>,
kropla@ibmdotnet (Steve Kropla) wrote:
>
> As for other sources, the Singapore Straights Times did have a special
> section on the crash at their web site
> (http://www.straightstimes.asia1.com), but it seems to have
> disappeared. It included a passenger list and several features on the
> crash, passengers aboard, and recovery efforts.
The site to check is http://straitstimes.asia1.com/pages/crashreport.html
>
> If you do a DejaNews power search on "SilkAir crash," you will find a
> lot of earlier postings about this incident. There may be a passenger
> list among those postings someplace.
>
> I hope this helps, and I hope your friend is well and was not aboard
> this tragic flight.
>
Steve Kropla
On Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:52:23 -0600, nic...@hotmail.com wrote:
>In article <350a7dea...@news3.ibm.net>,
> kropla@ibmdotnet (Steve Kropla) wrote:
>>
>> This information was found at the Singapore Straits Times web site at
>> http://www.asia1.com/straitstimes/pages/silk122005.html.
>>
>> The "special crash site" that the Straits Times had set up appears to
>> have vanished. However, several of the articles they ran from the
>> time of the crash up to 5 February can still be accessed at
>> http://straitstimes.asia1.com/pages/crashreport.html.
>>
>
>Urm I think http://straitstimes.asia1.com/pages/crashreport.html is the
>"special crash site", which is extant and will continue to be updated for some
>time.
>
Urm (is that the same as umm...?) If you didn't notice, these URLs
lead to the same site, at least eventually. If you believe it is the
"special crash site" then please explain why the last update was on 5
February. Even after the speculative suicide article ran in the WSJ,
the Straits Times appears to have paid no attention. I have run a
search on the ST site repeatedly over the last three weeks for
"silkair" and nothing matches.
nic...@hotmail.com
In article <35134ac4...@news2.ibm.net>,
kropla@ibmdotnet (Steve Kropla) wrote:
> >
> Urm (is that the same as umm...?) If you didn't notice, these URLs
> lead to the same site, at least eventually. If you believe it is the
> "special crash site" then please explain why the last update was on 5
> February. Even after the speculative suicide article ran in the WSJ,
> the Straits Times appears to have paid no attention. I have run a
> search on the ST site repeatedly over the last three weeks for
> "silkair" and nothing matches.
While the Straits Times did run an article on the speculative suicide
recently, they have probably felt no need to update the site since we're
talking speculation here....which at this point, even the WSJ article falls
under.
The site was updated very frequently initially but has been tapering off due
to lack of new information.
CI
>
> _____________________________________
> Steve Kropla
> Kingwood, Texas USA
> To e-mail, replace "dot" with you-know-what
> Help for World Travelers: http://kropla.com
>
Steve Kropla
On Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:52:23 -0600, nic...@hotmail.com wrote:
>In article <350a7dea...@news3.ibm.net>,
> kropla@ibmdotnet (Steve Kropla) wrote:
>
>>
>> This information was found at the Singapore Straits Times web site at
>> http://www.asia1.com/straitstimes/pages/silk122005.html.
>>
>> The "special crash site" that the Straits Times had set up appears to
>> have vanished. However, several of the articles they ran from the
>> time of the crash up to 5 February can still be accessed at
>> http://straitstimes.asia1.com/pages/crashreport.html.
>>
>
>Urm I think http://straitstimes.asia1.com/pages/crashreport.html is the
>"special crash site", which is extant and will continue to be updated for some
>time.
Urm, you should know that these URLs refer to the SAME SITE! Ever
heard of aliasing, or other advanced web stuff?
What is your source to say that is is "extant and will continue to be
updated for some time?" There have been no updates to this site since
5 February.
Steve Kropla
On Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:29:20 -0600, nic...@hotmail.com wrote:
>While the Straits Times did run an article on the speculative suicide
>recently, they have probably felt no need to update the site since we're
>talking speculation here....which at this point, even the WSJ article falls
>under.
Please provide the date of the Straits Time article. I have seen
nothing of this sort. I have also run
"silkair" though their online "seven-day" database repeatedly since
the WSJ article, and have found "no matches."
I think I pretty much attributed my sources in the previous postings
and acknowledged that which was speculative. Your flurry of postings
hasn't done much to clear the air, so to speak.
nic...@hotmail.com
In article <3515a234....@news3.ibm.net>,
kropla@ibmdotnet (Steve Kropla) wrote:
>
> On Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:52:23 -0600, nic...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >In article <350a7dea...@news3.ibm.net>,
> > kropla@ibmdotnet (Steve Kropla) wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> This information was found at the Singapore Straits Times web site at
> >> http://www.asia1.com/straitstimes/pages/silk122005.html.
> >>
> >> The "special crash site" that the Straits Times had set up appears to
> >> have vanished. However, several of the articles they ran from the
> >> time of the crash up to 5 February can still be accessed at
> >> http://straitstimes.asia1.com/pages/crashreport.html.
> >>
> >
> >Urm I think http://straitstimes.asia1.com/pages/crashreport.html is the
> >"special crash site", which is extant and will continue to be updated for
some
> >time.
>
> Urm, you should know that these URLs refer to the SAME SITE! Ever
> heard of aliasing, or other advanced web stuff?
Who said they did not refer to the SAME SITE? They are the same to the letter.
>
> What is your source to say that is is "extant and will continue to be
> updated for some time?" There have been no updates to this site since
> 5 February.
Simple, the very fact that you can still access the website. As I have said,
updates have been lacking due to lack of concrete information.
>
> _________________________________
> Steve Kropla
> Kingwood, Texas USA
> To e-mail, replace "dot" with you-know-what
> Help for World Travelers: http://kropla.com
>
nic...@hotmail.com
In article <3518a322....@news3.ibm.net>,
kropla@ibmdotnet (Steve Kropla) wrote:
>
> On Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:29:20 -0600, nic...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >While the Straits Times did run an article on the speculative suicide
> >recently, they have probably felt no need to update the site since we're
> >talking speculation here....which at this point, even the WSJ article falls
> >under.
>
> Please provide the date of the Straits Time article. I have seen
> nothing of this sort. I have also run
> "silkair" though their online "seven-day" database repeatedly since
> the WSJ article, and have found "no matches."
Not every article that appears in the Straits Times appears in the database.
The electronic version only covers some articles -- especially those found in
the main section of the newspaper. If I'm not mistaken, it didn't appear in
the main section. I'm unfortunately unable to quote the exact date when the
article appeared, but it was definitely around 2 weeks' ago.
>
> I think I pretty much attributed my sources in the previous postings
> and acknowledged that which was speculative. Your flurry of postings
> hasn't done much to clear the air, so to speak.
Mirror
Steve Kropla
On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:14:35 -0600, nic...@hotmail.com wrote:
>Not every article that appears in the Straits Times appears in the database.
>The electronic version only covers some articles -- especially those found in
>the main section of the newspaper. If I'm not mistaken, it didn't appear in
>the main section. I'm unfortunately unable to quote the exact date when the
>article appeared, but it was definitely around 2 weeks' ago.
Do you recall if there was anything essentially new in the ST story,
or was it basically a "The Wall Street Journal reported..." kind of
article?
_____________________________________
tc...@hotmail.com
In article <3516b9df...@news2.ibm.net>,
kropla@ibmdotnet (Steve Kropla) wrote:
>
> On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:14:35 -0600, nic...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >If I'm not mistaken, it didn't appear in
> >the main section. I'm unfortunately unable to quote the exact date when the
> >article appeared, but it was definitely around 2 weeks' ago.
The article was published March 11, in the Home section.
>
> Do you recall if there was anything essentially new in the ST story,
> or was it basically a "The Wall Street Journal reported..." kind of
> article?
>
I remember the first news of the suicide angle in the investigation being
still open came from Aviation Week in an article dated February 16. I think
the media then started pushing for more answers from the team of investigators
and they then held a press conference on Tuesday March 10 to address the
issue.
I have a copy of the March 11 AWSJ report and it said a team had been formed
to look into the human performance area, including the pilots' backgrounds.
There was mention that the captain had been recently removed from duties as a
trainer. IMO, AWSJ's story painted a picture that said suicide was a very real
possibility, citing past examples of pilot taking passengers' lives along, and
how Cathay Pacific and the US FAA have measures to check on the mental health
of their pilots. The story ended by saying that Diran (chief investigator)
stressed that suicide is only one of many factors still under investigation.
"We want to examine all aspects of the flight," he was quoted as saying. If
there were other aspects, there was barely any mention in this article, or
perhaps the chief didn't tell and no one asked.
The Straits Times March 11 report said the AWSJ reported "yesterday" (which
meant March 10, but I don't have copy of that one) the theory that the pilot
crashed the plane deliberately. That was the only reference made to AWSJ. It
had the same information that the captain was transferred from his position as
instructor a few months before the tragedy, and that the black box had so far
revealed no crucial data.
However, it had one piece of information, not reported in two similar articles
by other newspapers--AWSJ and the Singapore Business Times. It said
"Responding to reporters' queries, Prof Diran confirmed the pilot was in debt
but did not say more."
On March 14, Straits Times published this apology:
IN OUR report headlined, "SilkAir crash probe still looking at all
possibilities", published on March 11, we said that chief investigator Oetarjo
Diran confirmed at a press briefing that Captain Tsu Way Ming, pilot of MI185,
was in debt.
What Professor Diran said was that there is no evidence to suggest that
the pilot was in debt.
We are sorry for the error.
I saw an Aviation Week web site story by Geoffrey Thomas saying the pilot was
in debt but there was no attribution. The reporter could have picked it off
the Straits Times story March 11, but missed the apology.
nic...@hotmail.com
> Do you recall if there was anything essentially new in the ST story,
> or was it basically a "The Wall Street Journal reported..." kind of
> article?
The content was essentially the same as WSJ., ie nothing new.
>
> _____________________________________
> Steve Kropla
> Kingwood, Texas USA
> To e-mail, replace "dot" with you-know-what
> Help for World Travelers: http://kropla.com
>
Tarver Engineering
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:14:13 -0600, nic...@hotmail.com wrote:
>In article <3516b9df...@news2.ibm.net>,
> kropla@ibmdotnet (Steve Kropla) wrote:
>
>> Do you recall if there was anything essentially new in the ST story,
>> or was it basically a "The Wall Street Journal reported..." kind of
>> article?
>
>The content was essentially the same as WSJ., ie nothing new.
The WSJ article information was all speculation in ada before it was
printed.
John