WAL Flight 2605
Dan Rupp
got this e-mail today:
"as the surviving F/A aboard 2605, I am finally free
to speak. I'm not surprised you have no info....a
cover-up is just that. Ask?.....No, it was not pilot
error."
Probably nothing, but it could give me a competitive edge over Kilroy at
AD.com.
Thanks,
Dan
Pascalais
stolen fair and square from a web site:
P
===============
>10/31/1979 05:42 LOCATION: Mexico City, Mexico
CARRIER: Western Air Lines FLIGHT: 605 AIRCRAFT: Douglas DC-10-10
REGISTRY: N903WA S/N: 46929 ABOARD: 88 FATAL: 72 GROUND: 1
DETAILS: The aircraft struck a vehicle after landing on a closed
runway. Non-compliance with the meteorological minima for the
approach procedure, as cleared. Failure to comply with the aircraft's
operating procedures during the approach phase, and landing on a
runway closed to traffic. <<
Dan Rupp
to be a few weeks until the NTSB sends me a copy of the final report, if
they can find it.
-Dan
Pascalais wrote in message <19990502162013...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
Allan9
IIRC, parallel runways... One was closed for maint..
Low ceiling... Low Vsby
Forget which runway the approach was aligned..(23L)
Aircraft broke out and landed (23R)..
Don't recall much more... Old man, short memory
Al
Dan Rupp <crash...@prodigy.net.spam> wrote in message
news:7gieve$jd7$0...@dosa.alt.net...
Steve Kropla
wrote:
>Dan,
>IIRC, parallel runways... One was closed for maint..
>Low ceiling... Low Vsby
>Forget which runway the approach was aligned..(23L)
>Aircraft broke out and landed (23R)..
>Don't recall much more... Old man, short memory
>
>Al
>
>Dan Rupp <crash...@prodigy.net.spam> wrote in message
>news:7gieve$jd7$0...@dosa.alt.net...
>> Thanks, but does anyone how many of the crewmembers were killed? It's
>going
>> to be a few weeks until the NTSB sends me a copy of the final report, if
>> they can find it.
From Airsafe.com:
31 October 1979; Western Airlines DC10-10; Mexico City, Mexico: The
crew inadvertently landed on a closed runway parallel to the active
runway. The aircraft struck a large vehicle and crashed. 63 of the 77
passengers and 9 of the 11 crew were killed.
>> -Dan
_____________________________________
Steve Kropla
Kingwood, Texas USA
To e-mail, replace "firstname" and "lastname" with real names
Help for World Travelers: http://kropla.com
Amie or KRC
wrote:
>Dan,
>IIRC, parallel runways... One was closed for maint..
>Low ceiling... Low Vsby
>Forget which runway the approach was aligned..(23L)
>Aircraft broke out and landed (23R)..
>Don't recall much more... Old man, short memory
23R was the open runway, 23L was closed for resurfacing. However,
23L was the only runway equipped with ILS, and the WAL crew elected to
use a side-step approach by which they'd follow the ILS of 23L to a
certain point and then veer off and land on 23R. The plane entered a
fog bank at about 800' and began to deviate left of the ILS track.
The plane actually touched down in the grass to the left of 23L and
entered the runway shortly thereafter. Upon entering the runway, the
WAL crew went to full power and initiated a go-around. Just after
becoming airborne, the DC-10 then collided with a ground vehicle - a
large dump truck, IIRC - that was being driven along the runway.
The investigation found that the crew had not complied with the
established procedure for the side-step approach, which mandated a
missed approach if the runway could not be seen from an altitude of
600' AGL. The DC-10 had descended below that altitude without
reporting the runway, and the CVR indicated that none of the required
altitude callouts had been made.
One off-the-wall theory I've heard in regards to this crash was that
the crew believed that 23R was the closed ILS runway and that 23L was
the proper one. It seems to me that with only one of the two runways
even being ILS-equipped, the approach chart would have clearly stated
which one that was.
KRC
Dan Rupp
crewmember) and claims that the pilot error theory is incorrect. They also
have photos, eye witness reports and a CVR recording. They claim that
Mexican authorities forced them into stating that they had served alcoholic
beverages to the pilots. Since a couple competitors of mine would LOVE to
get their hands on this story, for details you're going to have to read my
report this October on the 20th anniversary of the crash.
Even if this person's story is complete bull shit, it would still give me a
sharp competitive edge against AirDisaster.Com for the general public genre.
I've spoken with a couple of my colleagues in the conspiracy kook area, and
they've never heard of this.
-Dan
Amie or KRC wrote in message <372e013...@news.prodigy.net>...
John Mazor
Dan Rupp wrote in message <7gl2ot$4ie$0...@dosa.alt.net>...
>I've got someone that I have verified that they were on board (a
cabin
>crewmember) and claims that the pilot error theory is incorrect.
They also
>have photos, eye witness reports and a CVR recording. They claim
that
>Mexican authorities forced them into stating that they had served
alcoholic
>beverages to the pilots.
What the hell are you talking about?
Since a couple competitors of mine would LOVE to
>get their hands on this story, for details you're going to have to
read my
>report this October on the 20th anniversary of the crash.
>
>Even if this person's story is complete bull shit,
It is.
it would still give me a
>sharp competitive edge against AirDisaster.Com for the general public
genre.
>I've spoken with a couple of my colleagues in the conspiracy kook
area, and
>they've never heard of this.
With good reason.
The controller several times refers to "23 right" but the crew never
reads back "23 right." The controller also points out that the
aircraft is left of the assigned runway, which the crew merely
acknowledges but does not explain or say that it will correct.
>>
>>KRC
>
>
Rich Ahrens
> Even if this person's story is complete bull shit, it would still give me a
> sharp competitive edge against AirDisaster.Com for the general public genre.
> I've spoken with a couple of my colleagues in the conspiracy kook area, and
> they've never heard of this.
Well, we see once again exactly what your level of credibility is. Facts
be damned! As long as the gullible public will hit on your site...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Rich Ahrens | Homepage: http://www.visi.com/~rma/ |
|r...@visi.com |-----------------------------------------------|
|"In a world full of people only some want to fly - isn't that crazy?" |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Rupp
Rich Ahrens wrote in message <372E2AD1...@visi.com>...
Dan Rupp
You're right. Just 30 minutes ago I got yet another e-mail... he claims the
Mexicans kidnapped him and beat him. I don't think even the gullible public
would believe that one. Maybe I can sell the story to Hard Copy.
-Dan
Dan Rupp
".....Thirty days After the
crash, the FAA went to Mexico and along side La Officina De Navagacion
Espacio Mexicana, developed a side step manuver for U.S. pilots into
Benito Juarez Airport. Before that time not such manuver was ever
recorded in the Jepsen Maunal or anywhere else to any U.S.
airline......"
-Dan
>KRC
TMOliver
the "cauldron", the live volcanic crater (It can sure resemble one from
above!) which is the Valley of Mexico. If ever there was a place likely
by its own conditions to be permanently barred as a destination airport
for operators who don't keep their thumbs stowed in their mouthes or up
their asses, it's "El Prospecto Obscurrato', Benito Juarez Int'l, a
place to which the note "vision obscured by smog/fog/haze/diesel
exhaust/bunker oil smoke/burning road tar/pulverized burro crap" is
almost permanently applicable and grows worse by the day. It's all
those green and white VW taxis burning 50 octane gas and driven by
bandits and crooked former rurales, I guess.
Sadly, the conditions, bad enough when I first landed there in 1957,
continue each year to grow worse, with no end in sight except repeat
tragedies or halting flying. While there may be more dangerous
international airports, BJ makes the short list of horrors.
--
TMOliver, el pelon sinverguenza
From a small observatory overlooking McLennan Crossing
- VESPER ADEST IUVENES CONSURGITE -
Catullus
John Mazor
Dan Rupp wrote in message <7glc88$nuo$0...@dosa.alt.net>...
So who's really the gullible one here, Dan?
Dan Rupp
Ian Goddard. Connection?
-Dan
John Mazor wrote in message <7gn32l$ua$1...@autumn.news.rcn.net>...
John Mazor
>I thought it was complete BS from the first e-mail. This guy writes
like
>Ian Goddard. Connection?
To whom does "this guy" refer?
Dan Rupp
F/A on board WAL 2605. He also claims that some guy named Donald Richards
was the other F/A and is now a Delta F/A based in Portland, Or. When I
called all three of the Donald Richards listed in the Portland metro area,
none of them claimed to have been on Flt. 2605. I gave the NTSB a call
today, they claim they never investigated that crash so I'm not going to be
able to get a crew list anytime soon (the FAA is less than cooperative).
Even if he is who he says he is, he may very well be making it all up and
I'm not ready to lose 25,000 site visitors to some quack conspiracy theory
story.
-Dan
John Mazor wrote in message <7gnkn0$2go$1...@autumn.news.rcn.net>...
John Mazor
Dan Rupp wrote in message <7go56p$g84$0...@dosa.alt.net>...
>I'm not revealing his name, but he is *alledgedly* one of the two
surviving
>F/A on board WAL 2605. He also claims that some guy named Donald
Richards
>was the other F/A and is now a Delta F/A based in Portland, Or. When
I
>called all three of the Donald Richards listed in the Portland metro
area,
>none of them claimed to have been on Flt. 2605. I gave the NTSB a
call
>today, they claim they never investigated that crash so I'm not going
to be
>able to get a crew list anytime soon (the FAA is less than
cooperative).
>Even if he is who he says he is, he may very well be making it all up
and
>I'm not ready to lose 25,000 site visitors to some quack conspiracy
theory
>story.
>
>-Dan
Donald Richards died in the crash. The two surviving FAs had Hispanic
names,one was female.
Pat Barry
left runway with instruction to cross to the right hen the runway was in sight.
Unfortunately (and that word is an understatement - perhaps tragically or
stupidly works better) they forgot to cross to the right as cleared, and landed
on the left which was closed for reconstruction and flew into a bulldozer.
My recollection is that the crew did not survive - but I am unsure on that
item.
Steve Kropla wrote:
> On Mon, 3 May 1999 10:11:34 -0400, "Allan9" <ex...@grapevinenet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Dan,
> >IIRC, parallel runways... One was closed for maint..
> >Low ceiling... Low Vsby
> >Forget which runway the approach was aligned..(23L)
> >Aircraft broke out and landed (23R)..
> >Don't recall much more... Old man, short memory
> >
Amie or KRC
wrote:
--cut--
>The controller several times refers to "23 right" but the crew never
>reads back "23 right." The controller also points out that the
>aircraft is left of the assigned runway, which the crew merely
>acknowledges but does not explain or say that it will correct.
Which is why the fact that somebody would even make such an
assertion is so bizarre. But then again, as we have seen in the TWA
800 debate, some people will believe anything.
KRC
Dan Rupp
other oddball and presumably untrue statments like
"...the other crew member is F/A Donald Richards whom I pulled out of the
wreckage. He remembers nothing. We were close, but when the company
paraded us around the system in a "dog & pony show," other crew members were
quick to cataterize us as "hero" and "the one that got pulled out." We were
always asked which one were we? This was not fair to Donald, "Chip," as he
is known. This pushed us apart. I decided long ago that since he did not
remember anything, I would not torture him by bringing him into the madness
that was my world. Last I heard, he is an F/A for Delta in Portland...,"
Donald Richards died on board. And when confronted with your previous
summary of how 2605 crashed he said
"...concerning the statement, it is one of many mis-information statements
released by "the powers that be," to continue the cover-up. Thirty days
After the
crash, the FAA went to Mexico and along side La Officina De Navagacion
Espacio Mexicana, developed a side step manuver for U.S. pilots into Benito
Juarez Airport. Before that time not such manuver was ever recorded in the
Jepsen Maunal or anywhere else to any U.S. airline...."
"Eduardo" perfectly fits my definition of a complete mental case. Your
conclusion???
-Dan
Amie or KRC wrote in message <3730bb62...@news.prodigy.net>...
Dan Rupp
to ya.
-Dan
> He's heading that way. I can't really tell, though, as your other
>posts about this guy didn't show up on my server, so I don't know the
>whole of his story. Claiming that he pulled an FA out of the wreckage
>that could so easily be traced as a victim says to me that he's out in
>la-la-land somewhere, probably near the Rancho Runamuckka. The moron
>obviously doesn't know much about aviation, as it's a Jeppesen Manual,
>not Jepsen. And besides, side-step maneuvers are not uncommon at
>airports with parallel runways, and there generally aren't published
>procedures for the approach. I was riding shotgun in a Bonanza
>several years ago, and we did one at Wiley Post Airport in Oklahoma
>City - we used the ILS for 17L right down to about 1/2 mile out, then
>split off and landed on 17R. I also hear GA aircraft doing them all
>the time at Tulsa International when 36 is the active. 36L, the
>principal GA runway, doesn't have ILS, so pilots will shoot the ILS to
>36R and break off short to land on 36L. I know that neither of those
>approaches are in Jeppesen Manuals - at least not the ones I have -
>nor are they in the NOS plates.
>
>KRC
>
Rich Ahrens
> "Eduardo" perfectly fits my definition of a complete mental case. Your
> conclusion???
That you two deserve each other richly.
Amie or KRC
<d...@spamless.crashpages.com> wrote:
>Well KRC, this person (who calls himself Eduardo Valenciana, BTW) is making
>other oddball and presumably untrue statments like
>
>"...the other crew member is F/A Donald Richards whom I pulled out of the
>wreckage. He remembers nothing. We were close, but when the company
>paraded us around the system in a "dog & pony show," other crew members were
>quick to cataterize us as "hero" and "the one that got pulled out." We were
>always asked which one were we? This was not fair to Donald, "Chip," as he
>is known. This pushed us apart. I decided long ago that since he did not
>remember anything, I would not torture him by bringing him into the madness
>that was my world. Last I heard, he is an F/A for Delta in Portland...,"
>
>Donald Richards died on board. And when confronted with your previous
>summary of how 2605 crashed he said
>
>"...concerning the statement, it is one of many mis-information statements
>released by "the powers that be," to continue the cover-up. Thirty days
>After the
>crash, the FAA went to Mexico and along side La Officina De Navagacion
>Espacio Mexicana, developed a side step manuver for U.S. pilots into Benito
>Juarez Airport. Before that time not such manuver was ever recorded in the
>Jepsen Maunal or anywhere else to any U.S. airline...."
>
>"Eduardo" perfectly fits my definition of a complete mental case. Your
>conclusion???
He's heading that way. I can't really tell, though, as your other
may5...@gmail.com
danny burstein
(my response is posted and e-mailed)
>I realize that this entry is very late and it's quite long, but bear with m=
>e. I was a Western Airlines FA during the time of the WAL 2605 crash, and I=
> flew many times to Mexico City without any incidents or concerns with the =
Flight 2605 was piloted by Captain Charles Gilbert, First
Officer Ernst Reichel, and Flight Engineer Dan Walsh. The
cabin crew consisted of Flight Attendants Kathleen Miller,
Rob Pond, Don Richards, Larry Roundtree, Sharon Smith,
Teresa Sugano-Haley, Regina Tovar, and Eduardo Valenciana.
Two Western Airlines Flight Attendants, Vicki Dzida and
Jon Stockwell, were deadheading in First Class to Mexico City.
[a] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Airlines_Flight_2605
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
towbar
had always been too busy for the FA's. They mostly liked
me but I never got involved with them like some other
pilots, you know, barn flying after a day's work over a
drink and that sort of thing. In retrospect I think I
missed out on many good people.
ahemm... what's this group coming to?