Getting something off my chest
spam>@att.net Joanne Marinelli
Anrui, but I'd like to explain why a little better. One of the few things I
actually care about in my online interaction is aesthetic and literary
interpretation, and my first e-list on that subject, Disabled In Literature,
and by extension its sibling DIA, attempts to explore what I love to do
(interpret movies and books and plays) with who I am, and illustrate, by
extension, that our culture has much deeper roots than Justin Dart's push to
see the ADA into law.
Debating legal issues is important, but learning to see ourselves as part of
a larger cultural interplay within civilization is also important, and I put
a good deal of work into examining disabled characters and creative
projects; hence, when I use Usenet to encourage aspiring writers or painters
or actors or musicians to join in with us, I may expect to be mostly
ignored, possibly disrespected, but NOT to have a poster go to an entirely
independent organization's web site, copy their content and post it directly
under my thread about a community I have spent more than two years
developing entirely through my own efforts.
Kiyoshi's action caused a good deal of confusion: People thought DIA was
affiliated with this VSA group he so eagerly listed under my post, and this
is why I was angry with him. If users post an url, a piece of an article, an
issue, the expected form of behavior is to discuss and react to it.
For example, in the discussion about the statue of liberty access, how might
the OP feel if right under that url I posted a thread about access to Lucy
the elephant in New Jersey with nearly no explanation of why I was doing so?
It would tend to distort the intention of the OP, which wouldn't be fair and
is somewhat rude as well.
That being said, I apologize for being mad, but the next time I have
something to say about DIA, if he does it again, I intend to file a
complaint.
Joanne
--
JoettaB
"Joanne Marinelli @att.net>" <the-palsied-poet<no spam> wrote in message
news:RYbGc.61953$OB3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
It makes sense. I would hope he didn't intentionally mean to discredit or
detract your work and your commitment. I would hope that it was just an
error in thinking--you know, careless--not considering the consequences of
the post. (I know I've done that. Of course, I immediately apologize once
it's explained to me.) But I also know that I've had people deliberately try
to discredit me, so... I understand. I can only speak for myself as far as
any discomfort occurred with the conflict. For me, I just thought it had
moved into that grey, non-productive area. Sometimes people can discuss what
happened in a productive way, even after a few barbs (both directions), and
they come to an understanding--like where I said I would apologize for my
oversight or carelessness. But other times, it will never find resolution.
(I have/had one of those where I pointed out blantantly bigoted
material--KKK level crap--very long story.) When no resolution is possible,
separation or ignoring is the next logical step. Or... like you say...
filing a complaint. So it sounds to me like you've developed a good and wise
approach. <smile>
Joetta
spam>@att.net Joanne Marinelli
"JoettaB" <Joe...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:b6ydnThQSq_...@wideopenwest.com...
DIA isn't much of a baby yet, but it is still mine, even though it is just a
list serv; I hope one day to graft it into a disability studies department
even though I cannot afford to earn a graduate degree.
I will not spam for it all the time, just when we develop new topic
discussions-- you and Dan could even pop in temporarily if something
interests either of you.
Enough said. Again, I'm sorry, because you read like a decent person and I
got a tad hot under my collar. But I'm done now, I promise.
Jo-- hope you had nice fireworks. I always watch mine on the river. Speed
boats shoot flares and stuff.
spam>@att.net Joanne Marinelli
"brucie" <usene...@brucie.name> wrote in message
news:5o14fg0y25z9$.dlg@brucie.name...
> in post: <news:RYbGc.61953$OB3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
> Joanne Marinelli <the-palsied-poet<no spam> said:
>
> > For example, in the discussion about the statue of liberty access, how
might
> > the OP feel if right under that url I posted a thread about access to
Lucy
> > the elephant in New Jersey with nearly no explanation of why I was doing
so?
>
> done!
>
> --
> b r u c i e
>
>
Oh dear sweetie yes, there is this huge elephant in the state of New Jersey,
and if you were American you'd begin to snicker at that information alone,
though it is funny how things spark discussion. I do post straight
disability news items on DIA sometimes, because it is my list and no one is
going to berate the owner for being off-topic (slightly something of a
wheelchair Nazi I am I guess and I can imagine Joetta's reaction but I am
joking) and poor Lucy started a gentle ruckus between Dean (who has MS) and
Randall (who has Tourettes Syndrome) and me. I rebelled against destroying
the elephant in favor of preserving its historical status. My various
positions may seem anti-disability at times, but I prefer seeing it as
realism. Preserving our history outweighs accommodating our broken bodies,
in certain respects. There will always be broken bodies, but only one Lucy
the huge fake elephant in New Jersey. Dean was actually in Lucy when she was
young. She disagreed with me and showed what a talented author she is by
making me see her perspective--however, I still don't think it is worth such
major alteration to a unique attraction.
I wish someone had told me we all start to lose our minds at 40. I was
totally unprepared for where I'm going now, dried up and burning like an old
witch. I'd be more specific but I'm sure I'd goose everyone if I was, sort
of like The Vagina Monologues meets Marquis de Sade (such a badly perverted
writer he is rather humorous)... I need to go to bed. I have been having
nightmares of Saddam Hussein gesticulating in captivity, tossing and turning
in the haunt of the modern butchery. Fanatics beheading foreigners. The very
banality of horror.
Sweet dreams white feather,
Joanne
JoettaB
No apology needed to me. <smile> I've been known to get hot under the collar
on more than one occasion.
We have what's called the "Red, White and Boom" here in Columbus, Ohio. It's
a wonderful fireworks display choreographed to modern music on the radio. I
got to see part of it from my house, but I've never gone into downtown for
it because it's such a madhouse. People come from all across the state to
see it. I'm just glad I don't have to leave my backyard to see most of it.
<smile>
P.r.o.b.e.r.t 07-05-04@lymbercartel.com M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 5, 2004
> Oh dear sweetie yes, there is this huge elephant in the state of New
Jersey,
> and if you were American you'd begin to snicker at that information alone,
> though it is funny how things spark discussion. I do post straight
> disability news items on DIA sometimes, because it is my list and no one
is
> going to berate the owner for being off-topic (slightly something of a
> wheelchair Nazi I am I guess and I can imagine Joetta's reaction but I am
> joking) and poor Lucy started a gentle ruckus between Dean (who has MS)
and
> Randall (who has Tourettes Syndrome) and me. I rebelled against destroying
> the elephant in favor of preserving its historical status. My various
> positions may seem anti-disability at times, but I prefer seeing it as
> realism. Preserving our history outweighs accommodating our broken bodies,
> in certain respects. There will always be broken bodies, but only one Lucy
> the huge fake elephant in New Jersey. Dean was actually in Lucy when she
was
> young. She disagreed with me and showed what a talented author she is by
> making me see her perspective--however, I still don't think it is worth
such
> major alteration to a unique attraction.
WOW! Did you ever trigger a flashback!
When you first mentioned Lucy, I had no idea what you were talking about.
However, a bit of net searching located this:
http://www.levins.com/lucy.html
and when I saw the pics, I realized that I had visited there when I was a
young snip of a kid, and had to be less than 9 years old, as it was with my
grandparents. That was a glorious summer, the last summer before my
grandparents moved to the land of perpetual humidity...Florida...and where I
could not see them whenever I wanted.....
JoettaB
"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 5, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
07-0...@lymbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:VPxGc.48291$kz.95...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
all of what Joanne said about historical aspects versus the accessibility
aspects in my head. And, I think I have to agree with Joanne here. I'm not
sure this particular historical structure requires change for accessbility,
but I can also see how it would make it tough if we let one thing slide and
other things pass. In other words, who gets to decide? I don't know the
answer and I wonder. Does anybody else?
P.r.o.b.e.r.t 07-06-04@lymbercartel.com M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 6, 2004
I agree with you and Joanne. If something like Lucy has to be accessible,
the next thing you know, someone will want the Grand Canyon to be made
accessible. How can Lucy be made accessible?
The only way that can be done is to take all the campaign posters from this
year, shred them, and fill it in. World's largest composte pile. ;)
spam>@att.net Joanne Marinelli
DIA. I'd say on issues like these there aren't easy answers, and here is
another example:
I am a Henry James fanatic and amateur scholar. He is a famous 19th century
American novelist who became a British citizen shortly before his death in
1916. His home in England is preserved as a historic landmark, and it would
be nearly impossible for a modern wheelchair user to tour the home. This
kills me, as he is one of the greatest novelists whom this country (and
Europe) ever produced.
However, making his home even partially wheelchair accessible would destroy
the physical biography of Henry James, at least to some degree.
How James himself would feel might be interesting, because his sister was a
disabled lesbian--not that anyone admitted lesbianism in the American 19th
century--though Zola in France would-- and Alice James would eventually die
of breast cancer. Coupled with that, Henry had a massive stroke before his
death, and even with such a disconcerting cognitive impairment, he wrote a
near stream of consciousness historical essay on Napoleon, dictating it to
his typist he found necessary to employ in his last years. James had a great
empathy for the disabled, and was probably one of our first advocates, due
to his answer to Dickens' Tiny Tim.
James couldn't stand Dickens' sentimentality and willingness to use pity,
and consequently, Henry's disabled characters are real people, not stock
types-- but I truly don't know the answer. I feel his house should be
preserved.
Kiyoshi Anrui
wrote:
>Thanks, Mark. It was nice to put a picture to Lucy. I was trying to figure
>all of what Joanne said about historical aspects versus the accessibility
>aspects in my head. And, I think I have to agree with Joanne here. I'm not
>sure this particular historical structure requires change for accessbility,
>but I can also see how it would make it tough if we let one thing slide and
>other things pass. In other words, who gets to decide? I don't know the
>answer and I wonder. Does anybody else?
In the U.S., this kind of situation is covered in the American with
Disabilities Act. The ADA Accessibility Guide for Buildings and
Facilities (ADAAG) provides guidance under Section 4.1.7, Accessible
Buildings: Historic Preservation.
/begin quote
4.1.7 Accessible Buildings: Historic Preservation.
(1)* Applicability:
(a) General Rule. Alterations to a qualified historic building
or facility shall comply with 4.1.6 (Accessible Buildings:
Alterations), the applicable technical specifications of section 4 and
the applicable special application sections unless it is determined in
accordance with the procedures in 4.1.7(2) that compliance with the
requirements for accessible routes (exterior and interior), ramps,
entrances, or toilets would threaten or destroy the historic
significance of the building or facility in which case the alternative
requirements in 4.1.7(3) may be used for the feature. Appendix Note
EXCEPTION: (Reserved).
(b) Definition. A qualified historic building or facility is a
building or facility that is:
(i) Listed in or eligible for listing in the National
Register of Historic Places; or
(ii) Designated as historic under an appropriate State or
local law.
(2) Procedures:
(a) Alterations to Qualified Historic Buildings and Facilities
Subject to Section 106 of the National Historic Preservation Act:
(i) Section 106 Process. Section 106 of the National
Historic Preservation Act (16 U.S.C. 470 f) requires that a Federal
agency with jurisdiction over a Federal, federally assisted, or
federally licensed undertaking consider the effects of the agency's
undertaking on buildings and facilities listed in or eligible for
listing in the National Register of Historic Places and give the
Advisory Council on Historic Preservation a reasonable opportunity to
comment on the undertaking prior to approval of the undertaking.
(ii) ADA Application. Where alterations are undertaken to
a qualified historic building or facility that is subject to section
106 of the National Historic Preservation Act, the Federal agency with
jurisdiction over the undertaking shall follow the section 106
process. If the State Historic Preservation Officer or Advisory
Council on Historic Preservation agrees that compliance with the
requirements for accessible routes (exterior and interior), ramps,
entrances, or toilets would threaten or destroy the historic
significance of the building or facility, the alternative requirements
in 4.1.7(3) may be used for the feature.
(b) Alterations to Qualified Historic Buildings and Facilities
Not Subject to Section 106 of the National Historic Preservation Act.
Where alterations are undertaken to a qualified historic building or
facility that is not subject to section 106 of the National Historic
Preservation Act, if the entity undertaking the alterations believes
that compliance with the requirements for accessible routes (exterior
and interior), ramps, entrances, or toilets would threaten or destroy
the historic significance of the building or facility and that the
alternative requirements in 4.1.7(3) should be used for the feature,
the entity should consult with the State Historic Preservation
Officer. If the State Historic Preservation Officer agrees that
compliance with the accessibility requirements for accessible routes
(exterior and interior), ramps, entrances or toilets would threaten or
destroy the historical significance of the building or facility, the
alternative requirements in 4.1.7(3) may be used.
(c) Consultation With Interested Persons. Interested persons
should be invited to participate in the consultation process,
including State or local accessibility officials, individuals with
disabilities, and organizations representing individuals with
disabilities.
(d) Certified Local Government Historic Preservation Programs.
Where the State Historic Preservation Officer has delegated the
consultation responsibility for purposes of this section to a local
government historic preservation program that has been certified in
accordance with section 101(c) of the National Historic Preservation
Act of 1966 (16 U.S.C. 470a (c)) and implementing regulations (36
C.F.R. 61.5), the responsibility may be carried out by the appropriate
local government body or official.
(3) Historic Preservation: Minimum Requirements:
(a) At least one accessible route complying with 4.3 from a
site access point to an accessible entrance shall be provided.
EXCEPTION: A ramp with a slope no greater than 1:6 for a
run not to exceed 2 ft (610 mm) may be used as part of an accessible
route to an entrance.
(b) At least one accessible entrance complying with 4.14 which
is used by the public shall be provided.
EXCEPTION: If it is determined that no entrance used by
the public can comply with 4.14, then access at any entrance not used
by the general public but open (unlocked) with directional signage at
the primary entrance may be used. The accessible entrance shall
alsohave a notification system. Where security is a problem, remote
monitoring may be used.
(c) If toilets are provided, then at least one toilet facility
complying with 4.22 and 4.1.6 shall be provided along an accessible
route that complies with 4.3. Such toilet facility may be unisex in
design.
(d) Accessible routes from an accessible entrance to all
publicly used spaces on at least the level of the accessible entrance
shall be provided. Access shall be provided to all levels of a
building or facility in compliance with 4.1 whenever practical.
(e) Displays and written information, documents, etc., should
be located where they can be seen by a seated person. Exhibits and
signage displayed horizontally (e.g., open books), should be no higher
than 44 in (1120 mm) above the floor surface.
/end quote
--
Kiyoshi - The reverse side also has a reverse side.
"I have also learned from experience that the
greater part of our happiness or misery depends
upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances."
Martha Dandridge Custis Washington, 1731-1802
bear...@cruller.invalid
<NFGGc.205028$Gx4.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Joanne Marinelli" <the-palsied-poet<no spam>@att.net> wrote:
> James couldn't stand Dickens' sentimentality and willingness to use
> pity, and consequently, Henry's disabled characters are real people,
> not stock types-- but I truly don't know the answer. I feel his house
> should be preserved.
I love Dickens and employ his moral lessons frequently--not only in
discussion, but in real life.
However, my literary education is autodidactic and would resemble a
sieve if its holes were smaller :-).
Can you recommend a James work including such characters that I can use
as a primer to his views?
spam>@att.net Joanne Marinelli
<bear...@cruller.invalid> wrote in message
news:bearclaw-17A4CE...@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com...
>
> I love Dickens and employ his moral lessons frequently--not only in
> discussion, but in real life.
>
> However, my literary education is autodidactic and would resemble a
> sieve if its holes were smaller :-).
>
> Can you recommend a James work including such characters that I can use
> as a primer to his views?
Mmm. The short answer, mon ami, is _The Portrait of A Lady_. The longer
answer I will ponder yet a while longer :) You would be most welcome bear,
to join our little community at DIA. I exclude no one, except those who
would possibly sabotage what has been my life long passion :)
Best,
Joanne
JoettaB
"Kiyoshi Anrui" <kiyosh...@uma.no.hone> wrote in message
news:u8gme0hfor4ub8lfn...@4ax.com...
This makes sense, Kiyoshi. Thanks for posting it. I don't know why I never
looked it up beforehand. My only hope is that they (meaning the dreaded
"establishment") doesn't use this clause to declare buildings as historical
that aren't in the truest sense of the word (like old courthouses), if that
makes any sense.
JoettaB
JoettaB
back on my neverending reading list. I write literary stuff, but I'm mostly
writing Suspense/Romance at the moment, so I try to vary back and forth
between literary reading and genre, and I'd be very interested in reading
more about "real" disabled characters rather than stick figures. One of the
biggest beefs I have is that most people who want "disabled" fiction stories
don't want romance in them. I think, why not? My characters aren't disabled,
but I'm tempted to write a suspense/romance with a disabled character--you
know maybe a disabled private eye or something. <g>
Joetta
JoettaB
> in post: <news:VPxGc.48291$kz.95...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
> "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 5, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
>
> > http://www.levins.com/lucy.html
>
> if you like big things you'll have to visit oz.
> http://members.ozemail.com.au/~arundell/bigthing.htm
>
> lived near some (my life is so much richer from the experience) and
> driven past most of them.
>
> when i was about 7 i pooed my pants in the big banana. i cant remember
> if the excitement was just too much for me or if i was expressing what i
> thought about the big banana.
>
> --
> b r u c i e
Geesh, brucie, you keep tempting me with all of this stuff from Australia
and I'm going to show up on your doorstep! I suppose I need to dig out some
stuff from Ohio (boring). LOL
>
>
Matthew Hill
JoettaB <Joe...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
Snippage of material irrelevant to changed topic
>>
>I never was a big James fan, but... what you just said caused me to put him
>back on my neverending reading list. I write literary stuff, but I'm mostly
>writing Suspense/Romance at the moment, so I try to vary back and forth
>between literary reading and genre, and I'd be very interested in reading
>more about "real" disabled characters rather than stick figures. One of the
>biggest beefs I have is that most people who want "disabled" fiction stories
>don't want romance in them. I think, why not? My characters aren't disabled,
>but I'm tempted to write a suspense/romance with a disabled character--you
>know maybe a disabled private eye or something. <g>
>
>Joetta
>
"The Coffin Dancer", "The Empty Chair", "The Bone Collector"
Didn't one of Agatha Christie's storys put her detective temporarily
in a wheel chair?
Matthew Hill
P.r.o.b.e.r.t 07-07-04@lymbercartel.com M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 7, 2004
Give in to your temptation. Resistance is futile.
It is very interesting to watch my son and his young lady friends (he has
two) and how they interact in such mundane things as sharing a bag of
popcorn at a Yankees game.
Or, how they let their respective parents know to get lost.
P.r.o.b.e.r.t 07-07-04@lymbercartel.com M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 7, 2004
"Matthew Hill" <mhh...@watarts.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message
news:ccgnk0$bf5$1...@rumours.uwaterloo.ca...
But where was the romance? Joetta is a hopeless romantic....
(HINT!)
spam>@att.net Joanne Marinelli
"Matthew Hill" <mhh...@watarts.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message
news:ccgnk0$bf5$1...@rumours.uwaterloo.ca...
> In article <--mdnbomqqw-...@wideopenwest.com>,
> >
> "The Coffin Dancer", "The Empty Chair", "The Bone Collector"
> Didn't one of Agatha Christie's storys put her detective temporarily
> in a wheel chair?
> Matthew Hill
>
>
back in the old days of DL's existence; too much to pack in one post--but
Deaver more properly works the thriller genre. Joetta's right. You rarely
see good works which deal with the disabled and love. Deaver toys with these
issues, but hints at the possibilities rather than tackles them head on.
Gabby is one film which deals with it, though I wouldn't call Gabby great
film making. My Left Foot is possibly another. Irving brings it up in Garp,
and I know one (presumably AB) creative writer who sketches out the
sexuality of a mentally retarded couple, and I balked. Good writing is one
thing, but her subtle message to her audience was that AB containment of
crip behavior was necessary. I'll have to look up some things and return to
this.
Joanne
bear...@cruller.invalid
"JoettaB" <Joe...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Geesh, brucie, you keep tempting me with all of this stuff from Australia
> and I'm going to show up on your doorstep! I suppose I need to dig out some
> stuff from Ohio (boring). LOL
I hope you know that you are talking about the state where Columbus is.
Columbus, OH.
It IS the karmic center of the universe.
(Of COURSE I'm serious. Do you see a smiley anywhere? This is real!)
spam>@att.net Joanne Marinelli
>
> <regulations snipped>
> This makes sense, Kiyoshi. Thanks for posting it. I don't know why I never
> looked it up beforehand. My only hope is that they (meaning the dreaded
> "establishment") doesn't use this clause to declare buildings as
historical
> that aren't in the truest sense of the word (like old courthouses), if
that
> makes any sense.
>
> JoettaB
>
The statue may serve as a useful guideline, but doesn't resolve the fact
that we have two competing and legitimate values, the preservation of
culture memory versus access to them by a minority.
Joanne
P.r.o.b.e.r.t 07-07-04@lymbercartel.com M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 7, 2004
>
> > http://www.levins.com/lucy.html
>
> if you like big things you'll have to visit oz.
> http://members.ozemail.com.au/~arundell/bigthing.htm
>
> lived near some (my life is so much richer from the experience) and
> driven past most of them.
Interesting pics. Where I live we have the famous Long Island Duck, which
you probably never heard of.
see: http://www.longislandgenealogy.com/ducks.html
I live in a foul water fowl area where the fowl foul the wheels of my son's
wheelchair.
> when i was about 7 i pooed my pants in the big banana. i cant remember
> if the excitement was just too much for me or if i was expressing what i
> thought about the big banana.
That is Freudian.
JoettaB
"Matthew Hill" <mhh...@watarts.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message
news:ccgnk0$bf5$1...@rumours.uwaterloo.ca...
Well, now you've gone and done it. You caused me to add yet another writer
to my list! At least this one falls on the other side of my reading since I
alternate literary with genre. I had forgotten about the bone collector,
though. Great flick!
>
JoettaB
"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 7, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
07-0...@lymbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:5ySGc.68928$kz.13...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
I've always thought men should read a few steamy romance novels. They are
directed toward women and what women want. They could work like a HUGE hint
to men. <g>
JoettaB
"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 7, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
07-0...@lymbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:exSGc.68916$kz.13...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
<snip to reduce scroll>
> Or, how they let their respective parents know to get lost.
As they should at certain points... <smile>
JoettaB
decided on a case-by-case basis. Hence, the vague wording in the law.
JoettaB
<bear...@cruller.invalid> wrote in message
news:bearclaw-2C106C...@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com...
I *live* in Columbus, Ohio. So that's *exactly* what I'm talking about! <g>
Are you here, too?
JoettaB
"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 7, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
07-0...@lymbercartel.com> wrote in message
That's funny. :-)
>
>
JoettaB
> in post: <news:uoednVZOdNm...@wideopenwest.com>
> JoettaB <Joe...@nospam.com> said:
>
> > Geesh, brucie, you keep tempting me with all of this stuff from
Australia
> > and I'm going to show up on your doorstep!
>
> horror if you ever saw me. :-(
>
> --
> b r u c i e
Could be the opposite, you know. <g> You could run away screaming in horror
when you saw me! If not, you might say, "Good gawd, Joetta, you're a smart
ass! Get out of my house!"
>
>
P.r.o.b.e.r.t 07-07-04@lymbercartel.com M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 7, 2004
Definitely. I think parents owe their kids time off from them. That is why
our son is going to Camp Oakhurst in Oakhurst, NJ, next summer. I believe
that it is near Carolyn. The fact that two of his young lady friends are
going there has made it awfully attractive to him.
P.r.o.b.e.r.t 07-07-04@lymbercartel.com M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 7, 2004
I call them "training manuals."
bear...@cruller.invalid
"JoettaB" <Joe...@nospam.com> wrote:
No, I'm in San Jose, CA. But Sylvester, one of my most memorable friends
(and his family) hails from Columbus and he told me and I believe him.
His father, an artist, painted Spiro Agnew as the Statue of Liberty
during the Nixon era. I'm talking an amazing, full-fledged portrait in
oil on a four-foot-tall canvas, very colorful.
It was the kind of thing you gape at in awe before breaking down in
peals of laughter.
Years later I was visiting Washington DC on a holiday. I landed at
Baltimore airport and found myself waiting in the baggage claim area for
my duffel. There were three other people there; two hulking,
evil-looking men in dark suits staring at me suspiciously...and Spiro
himself. I couldn't help but stare. I SWEAR I wasn't trying to picture
him in a gown with a pointy hat holding a torch.
I only recognized him because of that portrait. I almost asked for his
autograph, but those two um, "functionaries" put me off. Not that I was
intimidated or anything :-)
Still and all, it was kinda cool to see and recognize someone out of the
history books and newspapers.