Logo Designers Needed
Timothy Hill
We are currently in need of serious Logo Designers. We need quality work.
if you are a Graphics Designer and would like to make a little extra money
doing what you love to do, drop me an E-Mail at
t...@nospamdiscoveryonline.com with some samples. Remove no spam from the
e-mail address.
Timothy Hill
DiscoveryOnline
WebStylers
The term is Graphic Designer, not Graphics Designer!!
Rick M
M. Hahn
wierder still would be if the Discovery Channel was actually recruiting
designers via this NG... puhleeez! doofuss.
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 jon...@alphacom.net wrote:
> >>Timothy Hill wrote:
> >>>
> >>> We are currently in need of serious Logo Designers. We need quality work.
> >>> if you are a Graphics Designer and would like to make a little extra money
> >>> doing what you love to do, drop me an E-Mail at
> >>> t...@nospamdiscoveryonline.com with some samples. Remove no spam from the
> >>> e-mail address.
> >>> Timothy Hill
> >>> DiscoveryOnline
>
>
> Is it for the discovery channel???!!!
> Can't they pick a designer trough normal selection
> (portfolio/enterview)?
>
>
> Odd.
>
>
> JonSon
>
>
>
>
jon...@alphacom.net
WebStylers
M. Hahn wrote:
>
> wierder still would be if the Discovery Channel was actually recruiting
> designers via this NG... puhleeez! doofuss.
>
> On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 jon...@alphacom.net wrote:
>
There is no such thing as a logo designer or a graphics designer.
The term is graphic designer.
Timothy Hill
The term is how I want it to be.........why be so picky about such a small
thing? I want a person who does Graphics, not a person who does Graphic. So
I want a Graphics Designer...........So Mr. Webstyler (or is it
Webstylers????), what does it really matter? How important was it to point
this out when all I am doing is asking for a little help from some serious
artists?? I have the money, I just need some work done. Chill out.
WebStylers wrote in message <34DF66...@comnet.ca>...
>Timothy Hill wrote:
>>
>> We are currently in need of serious Logo Designers. We need quality
work.
>> if you are a Graphics Designer and would like to make a little extra
money
>> doing what you love to do, drop me an E-Mail at
>> t...@nospamdiscoveryonline.com with some samples. Remove no spam from the
>> e-mail address.
>> Timothy Hill
>> DiscoveryOnline
>
>
jon...@alphacom.net
IMPORTANT: I am not the orginal poster, nor replyer to this message.
>The term is how I want it to be
No I'm afraid it isn't.
>why be so picky about such a small
>thing? I want a person who does Graphics, not a person who does Graphic.
Nobody does graphics.
Some people paint;
Others, do illustration, photography, 3D animation, typography,
concepts and graphic grids.
These "others" are called Graphic Designers.
I may agree that for your initial message, we all understood who you
needed for the job. And yes, the replyer was a little picky.
It's a question of getting the Graphic Design(ers) profession knowned
to the people. When I talk to old friends what I'm studying (graphic
design) they go: "What's that?"
Yet, almost all of what they look at has been conceive by a graphic
designer. Publicity, for one. Flyers, magazines, I could go on.
Some designers do poor designs. Some do good graphic design and some
do way good designs. I can tell you that from my point of view, most
of all bachelors and professionals in graphic design (therefore,
DESIGNERS) produce high quality products (i.e aestheticly and
conceptualy).
>So
>I want a Graphics Designer...........So Mr. Webstyler (or is it
>Webstylers????), what does it really matter? How important was it to point
>this out when all I am doing is asking for a little help from some serious
>artists??
In a sense, it was important. He was telling you that you must ask for
the right professional. Some bussiness man call for graphic artists.
In a way, yes, graphic designers are graphic artists. But the term
"graphic artist" refers to way much more that graphic designers: they
can be painters, people in the visual arts (animation, cartoons, etc).
None of them have had good courses in typography and graphic grids,
logical visual informations systems or design problem solving.
>I have the money, I just need some work done. Chill out.
Therefore, you should spent it well. You should spend it by working
WITH a designer. WITH is very important, since the relation between
the bussiness man and the designer must be cooperative. And keep in
mind that a graphic designer could make you save money in the end. He
knows how to work with printshops, the kind of papers, how logos
should be applied, or if you can do more that you initially though
with whatever the designer designed for you.
Thank you very much.
Anybody else in the newsgroups has thought on that?
JonSon
student in graphic design
Universite du Quebec a Montreal.
Gadget
jon...@alphacom.net wrote ...
>>why be so picky about such a small
>>thing? I want a person who does Graphics, not a person who does Graphic.
>Nobody does graphics. Some people paint;
>Others, do illustration, photography, 3D animation, typography,
>concepts and graphic grids.
>These "others" are called Graphic Designers.
Here is where the main problem lies... a "person who does graphics" is
generaly a graphic artist, (origionaly refered to in this posting as a
Graphics Designer - which technicaly I suppose is correct)
A person who designs layout, choses positioning, size, and typeface to
include in things, and controlls the over all look of an item is refered to
as a Graphic Designer.
Many confuse one with the other - While most of one profession can pass in
the other, you need the right person for the right job: Someone who is good
at Graphic Design can be rubbish at Graphic art; Someone who is a good
Graphic Artist can be rubbish at the design aspect. Both combine different
skills.
>I may agree that for your initial message, we all understood who you
>needed for the job. And yes, the replyer was a little picky.
Not really - I think they just missunderstood the origional request
<->
>>I have the money, I just need some work done. Chill out.
Makes a change in this news group - how many postings have you seen here
that beg for freebe's ? :) Have you got anyone yet ? If not I suggest you
re-post looking for the professional you origionaly intended.
>Anybody else in the newsgroups has thought on that?
Yup - see above. I agree with what you are saying - the sign that good
graphic designers have been at work is normally that you notice the impact
of the material they have designed; you don't notice the layout or artwork
as much as the over all impression (unless you are in the biz ;) It makes it
hard for 'normal' people to know what you do when they can't see it.
>JonSon
>student in graphic design
>Universite du Quebec a Montreal.
Gadget
gadge...@hotmail.com
jon...@alphacom.net
On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:10:21 -0000, "Gadget" <Gadge...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Ok Gadget, read your post, I'd say I agree with you on th whole,
however...
>Here is where the main problem lies... a "person who does graphics" is
>generaly a graphic artist, (origionaly refered to in this posting as a
>Graphics Designer - which technicaly I suppose is correct)
I don't think it's correct. Let's take an example. Imagine one hell of
a good fellow, the kind real good in 3D animation or just 3D
rendering. With what you are saying, he would be a graphics designer.
But to imply that he is a DESIGNER, redefines completly what DESIGN
means, with all it's reference to logical problem solving.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that graphic designers are on the
whole considered as artists. However, is the opposite true? No. A
painter isn't a graphic designer. But a graphic designer MAY be asked
for a certain kinda project to paint.
I guess I'm not really clear in my discussion. I'm getting of subject
perhaps....
>Many confuse one with the other - While most of one profession can pass in
>the other, you need the right person for the right job: Someone who is good
>at Graphic Design can be rubbish at Graphic art; Someone who is a good
>Graphic Artist can be rubbish at the design aspect. Both combine different
>skills.
That, we can agree. But the opposite is acceptable. An illustrator may
be pretty good in commercial posters, just as a graphic designer may
be good in illustration!
But I guess that when you are studying graphic design, somewhere you
kind of specialize in a field. Some graphic designers prefer
photography, some more typography, others more 3D, or whatever...
>Yup - see above. I agree with what you are saying - the sign that good
>graphic designers have been at work is normally that you notice the impact
>of the material they have designed; you don't notice the layout or artwork
>as much as the over all impression (unless you are in the biz ;) It makes it
>hard for 'normal' people to know what you do when they can't see it.
That is why we must promote the profession of Graphic Designers. We
may just say Designers, for a matter of fact.
I should write a book. :-)
JonSon
Gadget
jon...@alphacom.net wrote ...
<->
>>Here is where the main problem lies... a "person who does graphics" is
>>Graphics Designer - which technically I suppose is correct)
>
>I don't think it's correct. Let's take an example. Imagine one hell of
>a good fellow, the kind real good in 3D animation or just 3D
>rendering. With what you are saying, he would be a graphics designer.
>But to imply that he is a DESIGNER, redefines completly what DESIGN
>means, with all it's reference to logical problem solving.
No: it re-defines what you have been thinking design means (or what artist
means) This fellow has to decide what colours he will use, the camera
viewpoint, the lighting, how the object will move, how the camera will move
etceteras. He (or she) has set the scene - designed it. He has created a
final piece of artwork (a graphic) from the design he has made. He is a
designer and designs graphics, therefore a graphics designer. (as is any
artist)
>I guess what I'm trying to say is that graphic designers are on the
>whole considered as artists. However, is the opposite true? No. A
>painter isn't a graphic designer. But a graphic designer MAY be asked
>for a certain kinda project to paint.
I understand your point of view, but if you step slightly to the side, you
may see it a little bit differently...
While an artist is conceiving their piece of work, they design the over all
look, they design an image that portrays a concept or idea that the artist
wishes to show the viewer. None of it happens by chance - it is all
pre-conceived; designed.
If the graphic artist turns their hand to graphic design, they will use the
same aesthetic rules that they use when creating a piece of art -
composition, layout and design relate to both.
graphic designers turning their hands to graphic art tend only to do so to
create a piece to insert into their final piece of work - it is a means to
an end, not the end it's self. (I know of a couple of graphic designers
that have difficulty drawing a stick man :)
<->
>But I guess that when you are studying graphic design, somewhere you
>kind of specialise in a field. Some graphic designers prefer
>photography, some more typography, others more 3D, or whatever...
Aren't you talking about art here ? When studying art you can specialise in
photography, typography, 3D... Graphic design is more to do with layout and
combining various mediums into the one piece of work; understanding how they
complement and clash with each other and how they can be manipulated to
produce the wanted results.
<->
>That is why we must promote the profession of Graphic Designers. We
>may just say Designers, for a matter of fact.
Don't start !... Designers are another career completely ! :)
>I should write a book. :-)
>
>JonSon
well, perhaps a pamphlet. ;)
Jerry Lyles
Well, is there ANYONE on the net who didn't
understand what the original poster wanted???
Get on with life...
Jerry
Gadget wrote in message <6chau8$k2v$2...@biffo.sol.co.uk>...
MagicMan
At the risk of putting myself in the line of fire:
jon...@alphacom.net wrote:
>
> IMPORTANT: I am not the orginal poster, nor replyer to this message.
>
> >The term is how I want it to be
> No I'm afraid it isn't.
>
Why not?
> >why be so picky about such a small
> >thing? I want a person who does Graphics, not a person who does Graphic.
> Nobody does graphics.
I do. I am not a graphic designer. I am a photographer who has decided
to use my computer to attempt to do some of the things I do in the
darkroom, and some things I could not do in the darkroom. What I produce
in this is graphics. Some I print out and hang on my walls, some I use
as wallpaper, some I have sold (or given) to others to use on web sites
or whatever. Regardless of their use, they are gra[jocs, so I do
graphics!
> Some people paint;
>
> Others, do illustration, photography, 3D animation, typography,
> concepts and graphic grids.
> These "others" are called Graphic Designers.
>
No, as long as we are being picky, they are called 'Illustrators',
'Photographers', 'Animators', 'Typographers', etc. Perhaps the last two
are what you mean by "Graphic Designers".
> I may agree that for your initial message, we all understood who you
> needed for the job. And yes, the replyer was a little picky.
>
> It's a question of getting the Graphic Design(ers) profession knowned
> to the people. When I talk to old friends what I'm studying (graphic
> design) they go: "What's that?"
>
> Yet, almost all of what they look at has been conceive by a graphic
> designer. Publicity, for one. Flyers, magazines, I could go on.
>
> Some designers do poor designs. Some do good graphic design and some
> do way good designs. I can tell you that from my point of view, most
> of all bachelors and professionals in graphic design (therefore,
> DESIGNERS) produce high quality products (i.e aestheticly and
> conceptualy).
>
I certainly hope that you spend more time and effort with your designs
than you have with your spelling and grammar in the last couple of
paragraphs!
> >So
> >I want a Graphics Designer...........So Mr. Webstyler (or is it
> >Webstylers????), what does it really matter? How important was it to point
> >this out when all I am doing is asking for a little help from some serious
> >artists??
>
> In a sense, it was important. He was telling you that you must ask for
> the right professional. Some bussiness man call for graphic artists.
> In a way, yes, graphic designers are graphic artists. But the term
> "graphic artist" refers to way much more that graphic designers: they
> can be painters, people in the visual arts (animation, cartoons, etc).
> None of them have had good courses in typography and graphic grids,
> logical visual informations systems or design problem solving.
>
> >I have the money, I just need some work done. Chill out.
>
> Therefore, you should spent it well. You should spend it by working
> WITH a designer. WITH is very important, since the relation between
> the bussiness man and the designer must be cooperative. And keep in
> mind that a graphic designer could make you save money in the end. He
> knows how to work with printshops, the kind of papers, how logos
> should be applied, or if you can do more that you initially though
> with whatever the designer designed for you.
>
> Thank you very much.
> Anybody else in the newsgroups has thought on that?
>
MagicMan
See below, after last quoted paragraph:
Gadget wrote:
>
> jon...@alphacom.net wrote ...
> >>why be so picky about such a small
> >>thing? I want a person who does Graphics, not a person who does Graphic.
> >Nobody does graphics. Some people paint;
> >Others, do illustration, photography, 3D animation, typography,
> >concepts and graphic grids.
> >These "others" are called Graphic Designers.
>
> Here is where the main problem lies... a "person who does graphics" is
> generaly a graphic artist, (origionaly refered to in this posting as a
> Graphics Designer - which technicaly I suppose is correct)
> A person who designs layout, choses positioning, size, and typeface to
> include in things, and controlls the over all look of an item is refered to
> as a Graphic Designer.
>
> Many confuse one with the other - While most of one profession can pass in
> the other, you need the right person for the right job: Someone who is good
> at Graphic Design can be rubbish at Graphic art; Someone who is a good
> Graphic Artist can be rubbish at the design aspect. Both combine different
> skills.
>
> >I may agree that for your initial message, we all understood who you
> >needed for the job. And yes, the replyer was a little picky.
>
> Not really - I think they just missunderstood the origional request
>
> <->
>
> >>I have the money, I just need some work done. Chill out.
>
> Makes a change in this news group - how many postings have you seen here
> that beg for freebe's ? :) Have you got anyone yet ? If not I suggest you
> re-post looking for the professional you origionaly intended.
>
> >Anybody else in the newsgroups has thought on that?
>
> Yup - see above. I agree with what you are saying - the sign that good
> graphic designers have been at work is normally that you notice the impact
> of the material they have designed; you don't notice the layout or artwork
> as much as the over all impression (unless you are in the biz ;) It makes it
> hard for 'normal' people to know what you do when they can't see it.
>
And therein lies the problem. Ordinarily, it is one of these 'normal'
people who will hire you, regardless of your profession. They may not
know what to call you, especially since there are so many names (see
some of the other messages in this thread for examples). If you need any
proof that reacting rudely to an offer of employment is not a good idea,
then see the original poster's response to the flame he got for simply
adding an 's' to the end of a word, which could as easily have been a
slip of a finger on the keyboard as it could his notion of the name of
the profession he was looking for. I can almost guarantee that this
person will NOT hire the individual who screamed about the errant 's' no
matter how good that person might be at his/her craft.
MagicMan
jon...@alphacom.net
On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:08:18 -0000, "Gadget" <Gadge...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>>That is why we must promote the profession of Graphic Designers. We
>>may just say Designers, for a matter of fact.
>
>Don't start !... Designers are another career completely ! :)
Huh?
JonSon
jon...@alphacom.net
So, I guess we could say:
What is a (graphic) designer?
JonSon
jon...@alphacom.net
>Well, is there ANYONE on the net who didn't
>understand what the original poster wanted???
>Get on with life...
>Jerry
Listen pal, it's great to have some threads on DESIGN, not only "I
wanna have a big nice huggy LOGO" threads or "CRITIQUE MY HORRIBLE
SITE PLEASE SO THAT I MAY SLEEP WELL TONIGHT" (no intent to scream
here).
From my point of view design is also an intellectual process, and/or
profession.
JonSon
(this is what we were saying a long time ago)
>
>Gadget wrote in message <6chau8$k2v$2...@biffo.sol.co.uk>...
>>jon...@alphacom.net wrote ...
>><->
>>>>Here is where the main problem lies... a "person who does graphics" is
Gadget
jon...@alphacom.net wrote ...
>>>That is why we must promote the profession of Graphic Designers. We
>>>may just say Designers, for a matter of fact.
>>
>>Don't start !... Designers are another career completely ! :)
>
>Huh?
>
>JonSon
OK, I've said what I think Graphic design & Graphic art involve; Designers
take a 'real' object and work on ways to improve it or change the properties
of it. The previous two deal mainly with concepts and ideas; non-tangible
items.
While a Graphic artist may depict a kettle, the Graphic designer makes the
ad to sell the kettle, and the Designer creates the blueprints for the
kettle.
A Designer would take the kettle and make the spout bigger, increase the
capacity, make it easier to pour,
A Graphic artist would chose how to show the kettle; the lighting,
viewpoint, background, what they want others to see when they look at the
kettle.
A Graphic Designer would chose the blurb to surround the kettle, work out
the target audience and what the kettle should depict, chose the font which
complements the shape of the kettle, chose a background that doesn't detract
from the main purpose of the work.
All of these sometimes over-lap, and you have to know what you are looking
for in order to best take advantage of the skills of each individual.
Since this is alt.design.graphics, it is generally taken that any mention of
design here is in reference to graphic design, or the design of graphics (ie
graphic artists).
Anyone disagree ? These are my observations and views and are open to
persuasion.
Gadget
gadge...@hotmail.com
>Listen pal, it's great to have some threads on DESIGN, not only "I
>wanna have a big nice huggy LOGO" threads or "CRITIQUE MY HORRIBLE
>SITE PLEASE SO THAT I MAY SLEEP WELL TONIGHT" (no intent to scream
>here).
>From my point of view design is also an intellectual process, and/or
>profession
<cheers & standing ovation> well said that anthropoid ! <g>
jon...@alphacom.net
On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:06:30 -0800, MagicMan <magi...@the.castle>
wrote:
>I do. I am not a graphic designer. I am a photographer who has decided
>to use my computer to attempt to do some of the things I do in the
>darkroom, and some things I could not do in the darkroom. What I produce
>in this is graphics. Some I print out and hang on my walls, some I use
>as wallpaper, some I have sold (or given) to others to use on web sites
>or whatever. Regardless of their use, they are gra[jocs, so I do
>graphics!
Yes, but as you say, you are not a graphic designer! The replyer to
this message said that if you did graphics, you were a graphics
designer (note the "s" at the end of graphic)
>No, as long as we are being picky, they are called 'Illustrators',
>'Photographers', 'Animators', 'Typographers', etc. Perhaps the last two
>are what you mean by "Graphic Designers".
No absolutely not. Listen, I'm not quite sure myself what the hell
really is a designer!
But let's just says that a graphic designer works with the print media
(flyers, pamphlets, books, annual reports, reports, er, and a whole
lot more!), with the 3D world (simple 3D objects, packaging, and 3D
animation direction) and the web (site graphical interface, logical
systems of navigation, graphic grids, etc).
However, a lot of people declare themselves as graphics designer (note
the "s" after graphic) when they have no education in the field. They
have the guts to say "designer" when they aren't.
They should call tehmselves graphic artists. Cos you don't need to
study art to be an artist. You can study art, but you don't *HAVE* to.
I remember a doctor that decided one day to strip down old poster in
the Paris underground! He did something tricky with these old posters.
So he was an artist.
Also note that SOME people in the fashion industry are called
designers, when in fact they aren't!
We must be carefull when using the term "designer". Design is a
respectable and noble(?) profession. The term, alas, as come to be
quite "in" nowadays.
- "Oh, I'm a designer...
- What's your education?
- I studied Computer Sciences at university
- How come you are a designer?
-Well, I do system designs and software design
THEY ARE ALL WRONG. Design has to do with aesthetics first and
formost. Conclusion: the term DESIGNER is over-used.
JonSon
jon...@alphacom.net
On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:17:09 -0800, MagicMan <magi...@the.castle>
wrote:
>And therein lies the problem. Ordinarily, it is one of these 'normal'
>people who will hire you, regardless of your profession.
Agreed.
>They may not
>know what to call you, especially since there are so many names (see
>some of the other messages in this thread for examples). If you need any
>proof that reacting rudely to an offer of employment is not a good idea,
>then see the original poster's response to the flame he got for simply
>adding an 's' to the end of a word, which could as easily have been a
>slip of a finger on the keyboard as it could his notion of the name of
>the profession he was looking for. I can almost guarantee that this
>person will NOT hire the individual who screamed about the errant 's' no
>matter how good that person might be at his/her craft.
That's a certainty! But I still say that the debate quite interesting.
>MagicMan
JonSon
jon...@alphacom.net
On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:17:03 -0000, "Gadget" <Gadge...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>OK, I've said what I think Graphic design & Graphic art involve; Designers
>take a 'real' object and work on ways to improve it or change the properties
>of it. The previous two deal mainly with concepts and ideas; non-tangible
>items.
>While a Graphic artist may depict a kettle, the Graphic designer makes the
>ad to sell the kettle, and the Designer creates the blueprints for the
>kettle.
>
>A Designer would take the kettle and make the spout bigger, increase the
>capacity, make it easier to pour,
>A Graphic artist would chose how to show the kettle; the lighting,
>viewpoint, background, what they want others to see when they look at the
>kettle.
>A Graphic Designer would chose the blurb to surround the kettle, work out
>the target audience and what the kettle should depict, chose the font which
>complements the shape of the kettle, chose a background that doesn't detract
>from the main purpose of the work.
>
>All of these sometimes over-lap, and you have to know what you are looking
>for in order to best take advantage of the skills of each individual.
if you ask me, a graphic designer, a designer can do all of what you
depict. But I guess it's a question of bussiness more than the
capacity of the person to do it.
>Since this is alt.design.graphics, it is generally taken that any mention of
>design here is in reference to graphic design, or the design of graphics (ie
>graphic artists).
Before this great debate, I was kind of bored, it seemed like the
newsgroup was a reference for graphics (applications, technical
stuff), and no reference for DESIGN.
Cool to have some ideas and opinions once in a while!
lebe...@ix.netcom.com
In article <34ee39a7...@news.alphacom.net>,
jon...@alphacom.net wrote:
> We must be carefull when using the term "designer".
I would say that a designer is someone who designs.
According to Webster's,
Design as a verb is:
1 a: to conceive and plan out in the mind (they designed the perfect brochure)
b: to have as a purpose: INTEND (he designed to excel in his studies) c: to
devise for a specific function or end (a book designed primarily as a college
textbook)
2 <archaic> to indicate with a distinctive mark, sign, or name
3 a: to make a drawing, pattern, or sketch of b:to draw the plans for c:to
create, fashion, execute, orconstruct according to plan: DEVISE, CONTRIVE
Design as a noun is:
1 a: a particular purpose held in view by an individual or group (he has
ambitious designs for his son) b: deliberate purposeful planning (the battle
was joined more by accident than by design)
2 a mental project or scheme in which means to an end are laid down
3 a: a deliberate undercover plot or scheme: PLOT b:an aggressive or evil
intent (he has designs on the money)
4 a preliminary sketch or outline showing the main features of something to be
executed: DELINEATION
5 a: an underlying scheme that governs functioning, developing, or unfolding:
PATTERN, MOTIF (the underlying design of an epic drama) b: the plan or
protocol for carrying out or accomplishing something
6 the arrangements of elements or details in a product or a work of art
7 a decorative pattern
8 the creative art of executing aesthetic or functional designs syn:see
intention, plan
There. Now that's settled.
> Design is a respectable and noble(?) profession.
Well, that depends on what you're designing. Do the people who "design" the
layout for the National Enquirer deserve to be called "noble?"
>The term, alas, as come to be quite "in" nowadays...
> - "Oh, I'm a designer...
> - What's your education?
> - I studied Computer Sciences at university
> - How come you are a designer?
> -Well, I do system designs and software design
Does designing a beautifully integrated and efficient piece of hardware
necessarily "rank" lower on the scale of design aesthetics than clicking off a
two-color brochure design? Does the mental effort diminish when you're not
drawing bezier curves in Illustrator, but in AutoCAD?
> THEY ARE ALL WRONG. Design has to do with aesthetics first and
> formost. Conclusion: the term DESIGNER is over-used.
>
> JonSon
I think JonSon is upset with the english language first and foremost. However,
I do think one word is over-used as much as designer: consultant. I bet almost
anyone in the world could figure out a way to technically be a "design
consultant."
But for now, I've got designs on dinner....TTFN
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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jon...@alphacom.net
On Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:11:32 -0600, lebe...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>In article <34ee39a7...@news.alphacom.net>,
> jon...@alphacom.net wrote:
>
>> We must be carefull when using the term "designer".
>I would say that a designer is someone who designs.
>According to Webster's,
>Design as a verb is:
(snip)
>There. Now that's settled.
Thanks for posting this. It does settle things indeed.
>> Design is a respectable and noble(?) profession.
>Well, that depends on what you're designing. Do the people who "design" the
>layout for the National Enquirer deserve to be called "noble?"
>>The term, alas, as come to be quite "in" nowadays...
>> - "Oh, I'm a designer...
>> - What's your education?
>> - I studied Computer Sciences at university
>> - How come you are a designer?
>> -Well, I do system designs and software design
>
>Does designing a beautifully integrated and efficient piece of hardware
>necessarily "rank" lower on the scale of design aesthetics than clicking off a
>two-color brochure design? Does the mental effort diminish when you're not
>drawing bezier curves in Illustrator, but in AutoCAD?
Ok. Perhaps I went too far. However, you MUST agree that design has
become quite popular. A lot of people are using the software related
to g. design and call tehmselves designers. That is what I was crying
out loud about.
Industrial designers use Autocad and other software.
As for, the beatiful piece of hardware ou refer to, that's called
engineering. A video card isn't a work of art. It's a work of science.
Thank you très beaucoup.
>> THEY ARE ALL WRONG. Design has to do with aesthetics first and
>> formost. Conclusion: the term DESIGNER is over-used.
>>
>> JonSon
>I think JonSon is upset with the english language first and foremost.
I am upset because employers are confusing the whole thing. A lot of
times I see job opportunities were they ask strong programmation
skills yet they also ask to know how to use software related to the g.
design field, and the job offer isn't about programming an utility for
the computer. You end up with people doing what they should not,
therefore producing bad graphic works, because they don't have any
knowledge on typography, photo, illustration, or logical problem
solving applied to g. design.
>However,
>I do think one word is over-used as much as designer: consultant. I bet almost
>anyone in the world could figure out a way to technically be a "design
>consultant."
I can't agree more.
>But for now, I've got designs on dinner....TTFN
A lot of designers that have their reputation establish tend to solely
work in the fields where g. design/ers is/are known. And I won't
continue on this subject cos i'm tired (physically) and it's going
away from the present subject.
Nice to chat and have a nice discussion(sic?)
JonSon
Gadget
jon...@alphacom.net wrote ...
>MagicMan <magi...@the.castle> wrote:
<->
>>No, as long as we are being picky, they are called 'Illustrators',
>>'Photographers', 'Animators', 'Typographers', etc. Perhaps the last two
>>are what you mean by "Graphic Designers".
>
>No absolutely not. Listen, I'm not quite sure myself what the hell
>really is a designer!
They all are. Each is just a specialist field of expertise: image designers
(illustrators)photo designers (photographers), typography designers
(typographers), animation designers (animators), program designers
(programmers), building designers (architects), etceteras, etceteras. They
all are designers of one sort or another.
>But let's just says that a graphic designer works with the print media
>(flyers, pamphlets, books, annual reports, reports, er, and a whole
>lot more!), with the 3D world (simple 3D objects, packaging, and 3D
>animation direction) and the web (site graphical interface, logical
>systems of navigation, graphic grids, etc).
How about saying that he(she) works with graphics ? Visual representations
of ideas, concepts and objects. Then uses these graphics to produce a final
graphic. Hence the title "graphic designer".
>However, a lot of people declare themselves as graphics designer (note
>the "s" after graphic) when they have no education in the field. They
>have the guts to say "designer" when they aren't.
Yes they are. All artists are designers. (And there is little difference in
'street' learning and 'academic' learning.)
>They should call themselves graphic artists.
They can call themselves Brain Surgeons if they wished. It is just a title
that lets others know what they (try to) do. If they miss-lead prospective
employers then that's their problem and they will have to use a scalpel like
a professional. If they screw up then the employers are not going to be
happy. (although they might not be able to voice that opinion :-)
>Cos you don't need to
>study art to be an artist. You can study art, but you don't *HAVE* to.
<->
This is the same for any profession that deals with thoughts, ideas, etc.
Psychiatry, Philosophy, Art, Sales, Design... etc. You are desling with
concepts, not physical mediums.
>Also note that SOME people in the fashion industry are called
>designers, when in fact they aren't!
Why not ? Don't they design clothes or accessories ?
>We must be carefull when using the term "designer". Design is a
>respectable and noble(?) profession. The term, alas, as come to be
>quite "in" nowadays.
You seem to think that a Designer is the same as a Graphic Designer. I think
you need to re-examine your definition of "Designer" - a dictionary may
help. ;)
>- "Oh, I'm a designer...
>- What's your education?
>- I studied Computer Sciences at university
>- How come you are a designer?
>-Well, I do system designs and software design
>
>THEY ARE ALL WRONG. Design has to do with aesthetics first and
>formost.
No it doesn't. Aesthetics are only one part of design. Practicality,
structure and prospective audience have as much (if not more) influence in
design. And aesthetics have little to do with *graphic design*: you chose
what impact you want to leave on the viewer and chose the layout and
graphics to match that. The result may be aesthetically pleasing or down
right ugly.
> Conclusion: the term DESIGNER is over-used.
>
>JonSon
Wrong conclusion. The conclusion should be that people (the general
employing populus) don't know if they need Graphic Designers or Graphics
Designers (Graphic artists). It is more the terms of Graphics and Graphic
that are over-used (or confused).
Gadget
gadge...@hotmail.com
TNTOM70
"Graphic design" is the name or term used by most accredited universities that
offer an extensive program. Most graphic designers in the professional world
earn a BFA-Bachelor of Fine Arts and some further their education with an
MFA-Master of Fine Arts. The program of study is the visual arts known as
"graphic design" in the professional world. Most students of design have the
basic fine art courses--drawing, color theory, 3d design, painting, adv.
drawing-(anatomy) and art histories--and elective courses like lithography,
printmaking, photography, oil painting, sculpture. Most major coursework
involves--typography, layout, illustration techniques, advanced courses in
typography and layout, computer courses, history of design, self-promotional
courses and finally the PORTFOLIO course.
This class usually is an extensive class where you work on a specific project
that would reflect a real project in the real world. A bit of a problem solving
quarter. We were allowed to take this course only in the quarter--because of
the stress load. The project might be a logo for a hypothetical company and
application to letterhead, business cards, brochures, advertisements, annual
reports; design a typeface and use it in a campaign; an illustration series; cd
covers and promotional material--My senior portfolio project was a signage
system for an Australian zoo. I designed/illustrated some animal symbols, logo,
booklet, boomerang, stickers, tee-shirt, calendar of events and a brochure.
There are magazine publications one can read to learn more about the "Design"
world. Graphic design publications that are notable in the industry include:
Print Magazine, HOW Magazine, CA-Communication Arts, Graphis and etc.
Illustrators, photographers, copy editors and graphic designers all collaborate
to produce work for print, multi-media and web-based projects.
Graphic Design can be subdivided into other "specialized" professions such as
Environmental Graphic Design--signage systems used in the environment--highway
signs, museum and zoo signage, theme park and restaurant signage; Package
Design--cd covers, packaging in general--food labels, wine labels, clothing
bags, can drinks, boxed products; Product Design--3 dimensional devices
designed for the marketplace--computer hardware, toothbrush, furniture, cd
player, etc; Web-design--designing "graphics" for the web--a new coined term in
the professional field is "Web Architects" (really is an organization build of
information, graphics, photography and the navigation design is important for a
pleasant experience--I am involved in print and web design as a graphic
designer/illustrator).
Hope this was enlightening to whoever had questions about the field of graphic
design. And it is "Graphic Design/er". It truly is an inspiring and fun job--I
speak that with a passion. I didn't know what graphic design was until my
sophomore year in college--little did I know that I was surrounded by it
everyday. I knew I liked to draw ever since I was a little kid. I was on
yearbook staff in hs and did various projects for the school.
Now I love my job. So if you even have the slightest interest check into it and
learn more about the field--there are many specializations. Pursue your dreams
and Good luck.
tntom