Need a designer for a small job
cmac...@egroup.ca
Specifically, I am building a site which has a front page with a dozen
phrases on it. I need a small icon (about 200 x 200 pixels) for each
of those phrases.
The site will have a dozen supporting pages, each page built around the
theme of the phrases from the first page. I need a graphic for the top
left corner of these pages which will be similar to the "icons" on the
first page, but larger - approx 400 (high) x 1000 (wide) pixels.
Your task will be to create graphics only (I am building the pages). I
will need to have 100% ownership of those graphics.
My budget is very slim (about $50 - $75 USD) - so this is ideal work
for a student, junior graphics designer or someone who wants to beef up
his / her portfolio. On successful completion, I will also provide a
reference letter.
If you're interested, please send me a link to your portfolio online so
I can have a look at similar work you might have done. I will make my
decision by Friday 22.00 (GMT).
Thanks,
Chris
James Douglas
the most junior graphics persion in the world, but something about 50-75
is not really getting me going, now I think these guy's should offer
noting.....except you get to play with your design skills, etc. I bet
the deadline is this week?
woods
James Douglas <james....@genesis-software.com> wrote:
> >
> I can't wait till this gets torn apart....I am exactly this, probably
> the most junior graphics persion in the world, but something about 50-75
> is not really getting me going, now I think these guy's should offer
> noting.....except you get to play with your design skills, etc. I bet
> the deadline is this week?
i'm surprised he even offered money.
24 pieces of art for $75 = $3.12 per piece.
yeah...Giddy up!
NotMe
Mickey D's plays my 15 y.o. grand daughter more. She's a budding artist and
competent for her age (both of her grandmothers were professionally
published artist by that age so she comes by the ability naturally). She
did something similar for a local non-profit and one of the supporters
gifted her with a token of apprecation worth more than what you are
offering.
In any case I doubt even she would not undertake the effort for that money.
If this is a for profit project best revisit you business plan and put some
REAL numbers in the equation. If it's not might consider finding another
project as this one is doomed from the get-go. Come to think regardless if
for profit or not ...
cmac...@egroup.ca
lob obstructive comments into a discussion and then hide behind fake
contact information like "nor...@none.com" (or those who can't be
bothered to sign a name to their postings). Are you so ashamed of what
you have to say that you're not willing to associate yourself with your
own words?
Next, I have been quite clear on what my budget is. There will be no
surprises during negotiations as my terms and budget are in black and
white above. I am well aware of the range of professional skills and
rates in markets around the world. This is a proof-of-concept project
where funds are limited. If the pilot goes well, then that will be the
time to discuss Phase 2 with the benefits of added funding.
Finally, the Internet is a big marketplace, I am the customer in a
buyer's market and I am willing to use talent that will compete on
price. If you cannot deliver according to the terms above, that suits
me fine - I am clear that I am not in the market for your services.
Perhaps your time would be better served trying to convince me that I
should buy your services at a cost nearer to your chargeable rates,
rather than simply complaining?
By the way, I have already received a number of constructive bids for
this work which I am now considering.
Chris
Larry Linson
>
> Finally, the Internet is a big marketplace, I am the customer in a
> buyer's market and I am willing to use talent that will compete on
> price.
You are only going to get shit talent in that price range.
NotMe
| Right, first things first. I tend to discredit replies from people who
| lob obstructive comments into a discussion and then hide behind fake
| contact information like "nor...@none.com" (or those who can't be
| bothered to sign a name to their postings). Are you so ashamed of what
| you have to say that you're not willing to associate yourself with your
| own words?
Many reason for not posting ID to the internet are you really so dumb as to
not know the risk? BTW gmail is no real protection as it is a validation of
your ID for the purposes of this discussion.
| Next, I have been quite clear on what my budget is. There will be no
| surprises during negotiations as my terms and budget are in black and
| white above. I am well aware of the range of professional skills and
| rates in markets around the world. This is a proof-of-concept project
| where funds are limited. If the pilot goes well, then that will be the
| time to discuss Phase 2 with the benefits of added funding.
Like they say in Texas "Money talks, Bull Sh*t Walks"
| Finally, the Internet is a big marketplace, I am the customer in a
| buyer's market and I am willing to use talent that will compete on
| price. If you cannot deliver according to the terms above, that suits
| me fine - I am clear that I am not in the market for your services.
| Perhaps your time would be better served trying to convince me that I
| should buy your services at a cost nearer to your chargeable rates,
| rather than simply complaining?
Buyer's market? Buyer implies someone with the wherewithal to pay ... try
walking into decent restaurant with a McDonalds budget and see how far you
get.
| By the way, I have already received a number of constructive bids for
| this work which I am now considering.
You really expect anyone here to believe that? Or more accurately care?
alt.micro-give-a-sh*t news group is ===> that way.
FWIW yours in the n-th reiteration of the same poor mouth song, 'my budget
is non-existent so cut me a deal'. Those lyrics won't make even the worlds
worst country song list.
With regard to this being a proof of concept ... clip art would work and if
you don't want to pay for that use words in a box sop cut the BS we've been
had by the best and your complaining is not any where near that league.
Now before you start hammering me on lack of experience I've been at this
for over 40 years.
That about covers it. If you feel something is missing I recommend a google
groups search on previous treads on this same subject.
cmac...@egroup.ca
Your idea of clip-art is actually quite a good one.
Since you seem to be in a mood to share of your vast knowledge, I will
defer to your 40 years' experience and ask if you can - preferably
without needing to rely on foul language - point me to some good
resources for clip-art I could review?
Regards,
Chris (my real name, supported by a good spam filter)
Davémon
> Since you seem to be in a mood to share of your vast knowledge, I will
> defer to your 40 years' experience and ask if you can - preferably
> without needing to rely on foul language - point me to some good
> resources for clip-art I could review?
>
Have you even /tried/ googling "stock illustration" or "clip art"?
You seem to be unable to quote properly, which destroys thread continuity,
have a look at:
http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/
and also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette
Thanks.
--
Davémon
http://www.nightsoil.co.uk/
Larry Linson
Do you know what a "search engine" is?
Do your own work.
NotMe
| Your idea of clip-art is actually quite a good one.
|
| Since you seem to be in a mood to share of your vast knowledge, I will
| defer to your 40 years' experience and ask if you can - preferably
| without needing to rely on foul language - point me to some good
| resources for clip-art I could review?
You're planning a web based business and you don't have a clue on where and
how to execute a web search? I have a 6 y.o grand daughter that does that
much on a regular basis, even though she has to look up how to spell the
words.
I'd strongly recommend you take some entrepreneur classes at the local
community college or the SBA for how to set up and run a business. I expect
the senior citizen center has classes in how to surf the web for fun and
profit.
Connie Pierce
I realize that this subject has already been rather settled, but I have
a few pennies worth of coments to make regardless: (:
> Right, first things first. I tend to discredit replies from people who
> lob obstructive comments into a discussion and then hide behind fake
> contact information like "nor...@none.com" (or those who can't be
> bothered to sign a name to their postings). Are you so ashamed of what
> you have to say that you're not willing to associate yourself with your
> own words?
Woods is not someone who's opinion you should discredit. He's been here
for quite some time and is very respected within our community. Too, if
I may be so bold, you are the "guest" here - it's rather presumptious
of you to to be heavy-handed against a member of the community you are
"visiting".
On the subject of being anonymous, most here prefer to post as such for
reasons of privacy. Do you begrudge others their privacy? I judge posts
based on their accuracy and intelligence - not on the contact info or
lack thereof.
> Next, I have been quite clear on what my budget is.
>
> Finally, the Internet is a big marketplace, I am the customer in a
> buyer's market and I am willing to use talent that will compete on
> price. If you cannot deliver according to the terms above, that suits
> me fine - I am clear that I am not in the market for your services.
> Perhaps your time would be better served trying to convince me that I
> should buy your services at a cost nearer to your chargeable rates,
> rather than simply complaining?
Woods point, I think, came from the fact that by specifying such a low
budget you are essentially not paying a designer/illustrator what they
are worth. The illustrator, regardless of whether he/she is a student,
has bills to pay and food to buy. And most importantly, they deserve to
be paid what their time and work is worth.
If your busget does not allow for that, perhaps you should save up for
a higher budget or re-evaluate how important your need is. If your need
is so important, perhaps you should consider raising the budget.
Even if it's only 24 simple illustrations, more than likely there will
be revisions of some sort. That is time that your artist could use for
pursuing other projects that could help pay their bills.
>
> By the way, I have already received a number of constructive bids for
> this work which I am now considering.
I truly hope that you will pay the artist you choose fairly. $75 for 24
illustrations is horribly unfair and unethical. And I don't really
think that you truly intend to take unfair advantage of someone else's
financial situation . . .
Too, you really do get what you pay for . . .
>
> Chris
Please understand that we get about three to four people in your
position in here a week - offering very little money for honest, hard
work. Usually targeting students with their request. When you approach
a group like this with such requests, you are insulting us. You are
(whether you mean to or not) essentially telling us that our talent and
time mean so little and is worth so little. Our industry is not "fast
food" - it's a time-honored, necessary part of society, ART.
Regards,
Connie
--
C Pierce
Creative Veritas
principal/designer
http://www.creativeveritas.com
*(Coming 2-1-2006)*
850 532 0835
Connie Pierce
<cmac...@egroup.ca> wrote:
You can try Clipart.com or iStockPhoto.com . . . though you'll have to
wade through quite a bit of "schlocky" illustrations before getting to
the good stuff.
ClipArt.com has a monthly fee (unlimited downloads) while
iStockPhoto.com is approximately $1-3 per image ($1 for low res, $3 for
high res) which would come out to approxmiately $72 - within your
budget.
Gem
<cmac...@egroup.ca> wrote >
> Your idea of clip-art is actually quite a good one.
>
> Since you seem to be in a mood to share of your vast knowledge, I will
> defer to your 40 years' experience and ask if you can - preferably
> without needing to rely on foul language - point me to some good
> resources for clip-art I could review?
<cmac...@egroup.ca> wrote >
>>By the way, I have already received a number of constructive bids for
>>this work which I am now considering.
If you have received and are considering 'a number of constructive bids' why
would you need to review clipart?
__Gem
Dustin Macdonald
> Right, first things first. I tend to discredit replies from people who
> lob obstructive comments into a discussion and then hide behind fake
> contact information like "nor...@none.com" (or those who can't be
> bothered to sign a name to their postings). Are you so ashamed of what
> you have to say that you're not willing to associate yourself with your
> own words?
A friendly FYI: There is a reason to not put a REAL email address in a
newsgroup. Newsgroups are harvest fields for spammers. If that is
your real email address, (cmac...@egroup.ca) then you better get ready
for a flood of spam. :)
- Dustin
--
--
Macdonald Design, Inc.
ph: 831-462-2383
Web: www.macdonalddesign.com
"Creative Solutions for Today's Evolving Marketplace"
NotMe
"Gem"
| <cmac...@egroup.ca> wrote >
| >>By the way, I have already received a number of constructive bids for
| >>this work which I am now considering.
|
| If you have received and are considering 'a number of constructive bids'
why
| would you need to review clipart?
To paraphrase Forrest: 'Dumb as sh*t is as dumb as sh*t does'
BTW Gem there ain't no Santa Clause although I'm told the Tooth Fairy works
on commission.
Connie Pierce
> BTW Gem there ain't no Santa Clause although I'm told the Tooth Fairy works
> on commission.
But the Easter Bunny's real, right? Right?!
cmac...@egroup.ca
I want to thank you quite sincerely for your thoughtful messages. Your
suggestions are very valuable and - indeed - fit the scope of what I am
trying to accomplish and the means I have to do so. Some of your peers
in the group could learn from the very professional and proactive
approach you took. This approach and guidance, combined with a quick
visit to your site, ensure that you would be at the top of my list for
asking for a quote for work should I be in the fortunate position to
purchase your services at your prescribed rates.
Also, you bring the point of you and your colleagues as artists - I
cannot agree more and genuinely apologise if I caused offence. My
prerogative is to realise my requirements within a limited budget.
That of designers is to obtain what you (plural) deem a fair income
given your level of experience and other factors (i.e. if you live in
the US you have a very different income requirement as compared to
living in many other countries).
I trust that each side of this argument has been able to take away an
appreciation for the other's point of view.
Regards,
Chris
Gem
"NotMe"
>
> "Gem"
>
> | <cmac...@egroup.ca> wrote >
> | >>By the way, I have already received a number of constructive bids for
> | >>this work which I am now considering.
> |
> | If you have received and are considering 'a number of constructive bids'
> why
> | would you need to review clipart?
>
> To paraphrase Forrest: 'Dumb as sh*t is as dumb as sh*t does'
I just felt the need to po*nt out the obvious.
> BTW Gem there ain't no Santa Clause although I'm told the Tooth Fairy
> works
> on commission.
Santa went underground long ago to paint under the pseudonym Mark Ryden
http://www.markryden.com/
and was replaced by scabby little no-talent Santa Junior wannabes...
I heard the Easter Bunny bought stock in Pixar a while back so he's got
quite a nice little nest egg going today.
and ..With a killer portfolio you can sink your teeth into and a vice-like
contract, the Tooth Fairy has been getting upfront fees for years now, where
have you been...
__Gem
NotMe
"Gem" <
|
| Santa went underground long ago to paint under the pseudonym Mark Ryden
| http://www.markryden.com/
| and was replaced by scabby little no-talent Santa Junior wannabes...
| I heard the Easter Bunny bought stock in Pixar a while back so he's got
| quite a nice little nest egg going today.
| and ..With a killer portfolio you can sink your teeth into and a vice-like
| contract, the Tooth Fairy has been getting upfront fees for years now,
where
| have you been...
We transferred all copyrights and patents (retaining the current income
flow) to a trust fund for our grand kids. They will get a good education
some start life funds and the opportunity to make something of and for
themselves.
The rest goes to educate their kids and eventually into a scholarship fund.
Gem
Excellent.
See, Santa, there is a Virginia.
__Gem
Connie Pierce
<cmac...@egroup.ca> wrote:
I appreciate your not taking offense to my post - absolutely none was
intended. Your post didn't seem like the typical posts we get in here
(people looking for free design work AND being insulting about it).
However, hopefully you understand that most people would have taken
your post that way (we get so very, very many).
Too, you have to understand that most of us in here are a bit jaded .
Like I said, we usually get at least 3-4 posts a week asking for
bargain basement or free work. A lot of those people seem to that think
that either A, our time is worth much less than theirs is or B, graphic
design is all about sprinkling magic fairy dust on a monitor and
getting paid for it (personally, I ran out of magic dust years ago). So
we tend to get defensive, especially here in our own "dojo." ( yeah,
that was a SpongeBob reference - LOVE that show)
And yes, designers in many countries can afford to charge much less
(much to our chagrin here in the US and UK, I think) than we do. Those
designers (in other countries, I mean) are the reason why it's not very
profitable for us to post on sites such as eLance - they underbid us to
the point where we have to take heavy losses in order to win projects.
That's pretty much the effect of the Internet - but considering what
the Inet gives back, I'd say it's a decent trade. (:
That's an idea, though - you could post the project to Contracted Work
(www.contractedwork.com) or eLance (www.elance.com) - Contracted Work
projects usually have smaller budgets, but aren't as "safe" for buyers.
Too, the designer winning your auction (since your budget is small) may
not speak very good English - and I'm assuming that you're from the UK?
Or Canada? So the language barrier might be a distinct disadvantage
(not a slam on non-English speaking designers - a good relationship
depends on BOTH parties being good communicators and if one party is a
"so-so" communicator, then the other has to be above par)?
I'd honestly go with clip art if possible. If you search hard enough,
you can find some good work for a very reasonable price. And if you
have access to a vector graphics editing app (CorelDraw, Illustrator,
etc), you can tailor it to meet your needs (change text, color, etc).
Obviously, you won't get it completely tailored to your needs, so it's
a trade off.
I honestly wish you good luck! And yes, I think that we've exchanged
valid POVs here. ( :
Regards,
Connie
Onideus Mad Hatter
>I am looking for a graphics designer for a very small piece of work.
...small in what respect? Small in file size? Small in resolution?
Small in creativity?
>Specifically, I am building a site which has a front page
...has a front page or *is made* with Frontpage?
>with a dozen phrases on it.
Vague much?
>I need a small icon (about 200 x 200 pixels) for each of those phrases.
...the same icon? A different icon for each one? Animated icons?
Come on Chrissy, this isn't fuckin amateur hour around here, get it
the fuck together!
>The site will have a dozen supporting pages, each page built around the
>theme of the phrases from the first page. I need a graphic for the top
>left corner of these pages which will be similar to the "icons" on the
>first page, but larger - approx 400 (high) x 1000 (wide) pixels.
...similar in what way?
>Your task will be to create graphics only
...you mean just the icons or do you want the text too? And if so
what do you want the text to look like? Metal? Glass? Weeds with
flowers growin out of em? Blood splattered? Come on, Chrissy, give
us a fuckin cl00 here, yer askin us to design blind.
>(I am building the pages).
...oh really?
> I will need to have 100% ownership of those graphics.
...in what form? You want teh original layered primer files or are
flat final images just fine? And if the latter, what's yer background
color?
>My budget is very slim (about $50 - $75 USD)
Well which is it, Chrissy, is it $50 or is it $75?
>- so this is ideal work for a student, junior graphics designer or
>someone who wants to beef up his / her portfolio. On successful
>completion, I will also provide a reference letter.
Okay Chrissy, I'm gonna help ya out here by giving you a lil lesson in
portfolios and references. First things first...when I look to put
client work in a portfolio...I'm picky...I'm REAL picky. The first
thing I want to look at is the work that YOU'VE done. Do you honestly
think that a graphic designer like myself would want some nobody as a
reference? I mean come on, Chrissy, you haven't provided us with ANY
information about you or your supposed business. I mean you talk
about "building websites"...well step it the fuck on up and show us,
Chrissy! And then afterwards we'll all tell you whether or not we
would want OUR ART to appear on such a site. See the thing of it is,
Chrissy, we have to be careful, especially students and such who want
to maximize their chances of getting a good job in their field.
Getting a good job often depends not just on the work you've done, but
WHO you've done that work for. It reflects quite a bit on us and it's
also a major contributing factor in determining how low you can make
your budget.
>If you're interested, please send me a link to your portfolio online so
>I can have a look at similar work you might have done. I will make my
>decision by Friday 22.00 (GMT).
Chrissy most of us who aren't idiots are going to need a link to YOUR
portfolio and we're going to need you to be more specific in WHAT
exactly you want and WHAT exactly you want it for. I mean hells
bells, for all I know you want cock art for yer gay porn site. See
the other thing of it is, Chrissy...most of us here are ARTISTS, which
means often times we won't just do any old job. If what you want done
doesn't interest me for example...why would I want to do it...and more
importantly why would you want me to do it? For example if yer theme
is gay porn...yeah, that's just not something that really interests
me. Yeah I could do the work, but is that work going to be REALLY
good? Probably not, good art requires passion, feeling and genuine
interest. If you don't have those things yer just gonna wind up with
generic looking crap...although maybe that's the look you're going
for. *shrugs*
Oh hey, Chrissy, just so you know...my post was meant to be mean.
Don't take it personally, that's just the way Netters like me
communicate, it's apart of our culture. If you don't like it I would
suggest you log off and go back to the real world and put an ad in
your newspaper...or retard back to the Internet and go find yerself
some fucked up lil Webbie board of prepubescent lil tweenage muppet
fucks. This here is Usenet though...and we tend to throw off the kid
gloves and show it straight the fuck up for what it is. There
probably isn't anyone in this froup who wants to take the time to
coddle you, hold your hand and wipe your ass for you. So you have two
options at this point...learn something...or CRY...and then run the
fuck way. Your choice.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ą x ą
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog
Hatter Quotes
-------------
"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."
"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."
"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"
"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."
"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."
"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."
"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."
"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."
"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."
"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."
"Those who record history are those who control history."
"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )
cmac...@egroup.ca
My, my. We are sensitive aren't we? You're attempting to teach me a
lesson in professionalism, yet the vulgarity and your school-yard foul
language in your post has just made me laugh. For this I must thank
you most sincerely as you've provided me with some levity in an
otherwise stressful day.
My RFQ was scaled to reflect the level of work required; I am sure we
will agree that a small project really doesn't need a multi-page brief.
Besides, I would have hoped that the wide scope would interest true
artists to apply as little or as much talent as they deemed
appropriate. Anyone interested in bidding is very welcome to write me
directly with links to their portfolios and compelling reasons why I
should pay their market rates. If they want more information, I'll be
happy to answer specific questions by email or phone. Heck, I'll even
squeeze out a few extra bucks to pick up the cost of the call!
I am sorry to say that I suspect that Connie keeps some bad company in
this Group. She spoke thoughtfully, with passion and - most
importantly - conveyed her message professionally. I have immense
respect for her and am saddened by the fact that nearly every other
post in this thread has showed bravado in the liberal use of rude and
condescending language. I'm sure everyone's quite decent in person,
but notwithstanding one or two exceptions, your (collective) approach
to my initial very genuine (albeit in hind-sight, misguided) post has
caused me to question the professionalism of members of this community,
and perhaps your industry as a whole.
I have come away with the impression that most members of this
community are in the very enviable position of not needing to secure an
income. You obviously have enough time to whinge and offer petty
retorts rather than getting on with client projects, or bidding for new
ones. Oh! How I aspire to one day leave my menial, mere mortal levels
and walk proud amongst you!
Chris
Onideus Mad Hatter
>Mr. "Hatter" -
Please, call me Onideus.
>My, my. We are sensitive aren't we?
...looking at the majority of the replies you've made...I'd say so.
>You're attempting to teach me a
>lesson in professionalism,
You musta missed this part in my .sig:
"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."
>yet the vulgarity and your school-yard foul
>language in your post has just made me laugh.
Well that's good, Chrissy, teh verbal combat is meant to be
entertaining...unfortunately most wayward RLs like yourself don't have
very thick skin and start frothing at the mouth at even the slightest
hint of rejection.
>For this I must thank
>you most sincerely as you've provided me with some levity in an
>otherwise stressful day.
The more important question is though...did you learn anything?
Entertainment is pretty much pointless if you don't take the effort to
get anything else out of it.
>My RFQ was scaled to reflect the level of work required; I am sure we
>will agree that a small project really doesn't need a multi-page brief.
Depends on who yer askin really. Hell, some people might even do it
for free...most people would be interested in WHAT exactly it is that
you want though...which again, you haven't provided. Like I said
before, for all you know yer lookin for cock art for yer gay porn
site.
> Besides, I would have hoped that the wide scope would interest true
>artists to apply as little or as much talent as they deemed
>appropriate.
...you seem to be under some delusion that there are THOUSANDS of
people reading this froup...there aren't. And most of the
lurkers/readers who don't post...yeah, they probably don't have much
in the way of talent.
>Anyone interested in bidding is very welcome to write me
>directly with links to their portfolios and compelling reasons why I
>should pay their market rates.
Anyone might even offer to do it up for free if you actually gave the
specifics for what sort of gay porn cock art yer lookin for.
>If they want more information, I'll be
>happy to answer specific questions by email or phone. Heck, I'll even
>squeeze out a few extra bucks to pick up the cost of the call!
No offense Chrissy, but I hope you don't plan on being in business for
very long, because if the decisions you claim to be making here are
any indication...well I wouldn't quit yer day job just yet.
>I am sorry to say that I suspect that Connie keeps some bad company in
>this Group. She spoke thoughtfully, with passion and - most
>importantly - conveyed her message professionally.
Sounds to me like ya got a Usenet crush, Chrissy. Yer ass slurping
isn't of much concern to me though, so I don't know why you bother
bringing it up.
>I have immense respect for her
Respect on Usenet? LOL, looks like yer fuckin up again, Chrissy. If
you want respect you best log the fuck off and go back to the real
world, I think that'd be more yer speed. Here on Usenet the majority
of us are a little more developed socially. We have thick skin, we
roll with the punches, appreciate word art and don't try and make up
for what you obviously can't get in the real world.
>and am saddened by the fact that nearly every other
>post in this thread has showed bravado in the liberal use of rude and
>condescending language.
Welcome to Usenet, sorry, it's not a clone of the deficient world you
live in. Sounds to me like you got lied to, Bitch. What, was AOL
running some kind of a special or something? D00d, did ya get a
Dell?! *snicker*
>I'm sure everyone's quite decent in person,
>but notwithstanding one or two exceptions, your (collective) approach
>to my initial very genuine (albeit in hind-sight, misguided) post has
>caused me to question the professionalism of members of this community,
>and perhaps your industry as a whole.
Here's that quote for ya again:
"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."
And on Usenet I'm even more than that...I'm eight shades of ass
blistering reality coupled with a few sharp bitch slaps of hard,
biting sarcasm. Slurp it, suck it, you know you all like it.
>I have come away with the impression that most members of this
>community are in the very enviable position of not needing to secure an
>income.
Your $50 budget is not what anybody would consider a "secure income",
child. And most of us already have full time jobs, moonlighting work
is just icing on the cake.
>You obviously have enough time to whinge and offer petty
>retorts rather than getting on with client projects, or bidding for new
>ones. Oh! How I aspire to one day leave my menial, mere mortal levels
>and walk proud amongst you!
Hey Chrissy, did ya notice how you still haven't even offered a single
link to any of the work that you've done? Come on, Chrissy, what's
the link to yer company website? And yes, I do have the time to
verbally smack you around for idle entertainment...but then, I'm not
doing shit ass gay porn cock art for 50 bucks a jack-off.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm น x น
cmac...@egroup.ca
I thank you for allowing me to address you by your first name (be it
real or ficticious). Usually this is an honour I reserve for people
whom I meet in person, however I welcome being able to bend this rule
during the course of this discussion and live in hope that our paths
will never actually cross.
You seem to be dwelling on gay art. Is this your specialty? Or are
you homophobic? Or just obsessed? I can't quite tell - I sincerely
hope that your ability to express yourself through your (so-called)
"art" is much better than through the written word.
I couldn't agree more with your comments that you are not a
professional. You didn't need to highlight this to me - it oozes from
your keyboard. (Ooops - I shouldn't have written "ooze" as no doubt
you'll now use this as a chance to revisit all that gay porn that seems
to be on your mind!).
While you've been busy sending missives to me from your ivory tower, I
wonder if you have considered the fact that *I* hold the budget and
*I* am buying the services of someone whose skills I openly admit not
to having. I do this, just as I would source an ISP, or an accountant,
legal advice, a desk, chairs, etc. Perhaps I have a few extra bucks to
spend, perhaps I don't. I refer you to my earlier post indicating that
it's my prerogative to maximise benefit at minimal cost and yours
(collective) to do a little bit of work - heaven forbid! - to convince
me to increase my budget. That's the business world, Sunshine. If you
can't deal with the reality of a global 21st century marketplace,
simply switch off your PC, grab the nearest quill and ink and go live
in a monastery.
By the way, I have a very thick skin and am not particularly bothered
by your taunts. However, I don't think that you should tarnish the
name and reputation of one of your peers by mentioning her name in the
same breath as hurling abuse to me. A little lesson in professional
conduct for you - and *that* I give you free of charge.
I look forward to seeing your next post, although my reply may be
somewhat delayed. I am curious though - who is the lucky employer
who's time you're wasting by writing these most entertaining (albeit
extremely juvenile) posts?
Chris
Onideus Mad Hatter
>Dear Onideus -
Look, Sunshine, I realize yer kinda confused about where it is exactly
that yer at...but really, stop with the love letter style format.
>I thank you for allowing me to address you by your first name (be it
>real or ficticious).
It's more of a title actually.
>Usually this is an honour I reserve for people
>whom I meet in person, however I welcome being able to bend this rule
>during the course of this discussion and live in hope that our paths
>will never actually cross.
Our paths already have crossed, Kiddo...well unless you think you
you're talking to yourself right now.
>You seem to be dwelling on gay art.
You think so?
>Is this your specialty?
Oh yes, I'm a world renown master of the gay arts.
>Or are you homophobic?
That too, GOD I HATE THOSE FUCKING HOMOS!
>Or just obsessed?
I'm so obsessed that...um...I'm really obsessed!
>I can't quite tell
You're reaching new levels of sad, Chrissy.
>- I sincerely
>hope that your ability to express yourself through your (so-called)
>"art" is much better than through the written word.
Hey Chrissy, see the idea is to try and attack things that actually
have some basis in reality...you know rather than projecting your own
deficient insecurities and failures onto me and then spazzin out as I
burn down all yer pathetic straw men that you identify so much with.
>I couldn't agree more with your comments that you are not a
>professional. You didn't need to highlight this to me - it oozes from
>your keyboard. (Ooops - I shouldn't have written "ooze" as no doubt
>you'll now use this as a chance to revisit all that gay porn that seems
>to be on your mind!).
Wow Chrissy, your verbose attempt at verbal retribution certainly
makes you look like a professional! ^_^
>While you've been busy sending missives to me from your ivory tower, I
>wonder if you have considered the fact that *I* hold the budget and
>*I* am buying the services of someone whose skills I openly admit not
>to having.
All the money in the world doesn't do you fuck all without someone
with the talent to make use of it. I hold the talent and you're the
one who needs me...not the other way around. There are plenty of
dribblers like you wandering around looking for talent, but
fortunately for me, not much talent to go around. That gives me the
position to pick and choose my clients.
>I do this, just as I would source an ISP, or an accountant,
>legal advice, a desk, chairs, etc. Perhaps I have a few extra bucks to
>spend, perhaps I don't.
You keep talking about money like it even has that much to do with it.
Like I said, I'm an artist, not a professional. I've been known to
work for free if I like the concept.
> I refer you to my earlier post indicating that
>it's my prerogative to maximise benefit at minimal cost and yours
>(collective) to do a little bit of work - heaven forbid! - to convince
>me to increase my budget.
I never said you should increase your budget, Child. I told you that
you need to be more specific about what you're asking for and that you
should supply some links to work that you've done so we all have a
good understanding of WHERE are our art is going to be displayed.
>That's the business world, Sunshine.
Polly, you don't seem to know fuck all about the business world.
Sounds to me like yer just some punk loser who wants to play pretend.
I mean, hells bells, Junior, I only have a hobby business and I bet I
have more clients than you.
>If you can't deal with the reality of a global 21st century marketplace,
>simply switch off your PC, grab the nearest quill and ink and go live
>in a monastery.
Be sure and let me know when you can find some rag head, Arab speaking
fuck who has more talent than me, then maybe you'll have some ground
to stand on...you know, assuming you can comprehend their broken
English enough to even get what you want...well, assuming of course
they don't just outright scam you, take the money and ru-oh wait, no I
guess they don't have to go anywhere. LOL, gotta love the "global
21st century marketplace", so easy to fuck over stupid n00b jobs.
>By the way, I have a very thick skin
I think you confuse thick skin with thick skull.
>and am not particularly bothered
>by your taunts.
*cough* BULLSHIT *cough*
Oh gee, did I say something? ^_^
>However, I don't think that you should tarnish the
>name and reputation of one of your peers by mentioning her name in the
>same breath as hurling abuse to me.
...one of my "peers"? Who the fuck are you talking about, Junior?
Online...friends are only enemies that don't have the guts to kill
you. In other words, I'm an equal opportunity bastage.
>A little lesson in professional
>conduct for you - and *that* I give you free of charge.
A little lesson in reality...this is USENET...and "professional"
conduct doesn't have much to do with this culture. Like I told you
before, if you don't like the culture, log the fuck off and go back to
the real world, Junior. Usenet isn't going to change just because
some whiney little pissant like you comes along begging for art.
>I look forward to seeing your next post, although my reply may be
>somewhat delayed.
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Funny/People_Who_Care.jpg
>I am curious though - who is the lucky employer
>who's time you're wasting by writing these most entertaining (albeit
>extremely juvenile) posts?
It's your mom d00d...seriously, go ask her.
woods
cmac...@egroup.ca wrote:
>I wonder if you have considered the fact that *I* hold the budget and
> *I* am buying the services of someone whose skills I openly admit not
> to having.
Perhaps then you should RESPECTand VALUE the opinions, advice and skills
of that person who is WILLING to offer their services. No amount of
money would get me working for someone that i don't respect and would
not have a good working relationship with.
Unfortunately you don't see all that and just intend on arguing the
situation which makes things worse for you. You're not going to win
anybody over with your attitude because many of us have dealt with your
types before, and have already put a red line through your name.
NotMe
| I have come away with the impression that most members of this
| community are in the very enviable position of not needing to secure an
| income. You obviously have enough time to whinge and offer petty
| retorts rather than getting on with client projects, or bidding for new
| ones. Oh! How I aspire to one day leave my menial, mere mortal levels
| and walk proud amongst you!
You are correct in part of that assumption: some here have 'made their nut'
the rest are in the process. The former have no need to work for what you
expect to pay, the latter have every reason not to work for what you expect.
As to a secure income you greatly overrate yourself. I am curious: how do
you equate far less than minimum wage a secure income?
NotMe
>I wonder if you have considered the fact that *I* hold the budget and
> *I* am buying the services of someone whose skills I openly admit not
> to having.
You need to check the difference in the practical definition of buying vs.
begging.
Again as they say in Texas 'all hat and no cattle' aka a wanna be ...
cmac...@egroup.ca
How did the lyrics from that song go? Something like "Be careful whose
advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it". I couldn't
agree more, and have indicated on several occasions my willingness to
accept advice and have my opinion changed.
If you carefully re-read all the posts, you'll see that only one person
has actually provided any constructive advice. The rest of you have
flamed, insulted and generally taken a condescending view of my posts.
"Attitude"? How, precisely, does my attitude differ from yours? You
have already acknowledged that you have "put a red line" through my
name. I would have thought one of the basic tenets of art - supposedly
an area in which you have talent - is freedom of expression and having
an open mind... My "attitude" is of an open mind. Your's, evidently,
is not.
NotMe,
I strongly encourage you to take an MacroEconomics 101 course and
carefully read the bits about Supply and Demand. Do you really think
that your talent is so unique that it warrants a completely inelastic
market? Maybe it is, but then again you're so secretive about your
identity that I haven't had the opportunity to distinguish you from the
myriad of other people who have flamed me - as far as I can tell,
you're all alike.
I thought we established earlier that it's fairly clear that if you're
in a developed country (like the US) we will not be entering into a
business relationship; my budget is not sufficient to support your
needs, and - frankly - your attitude is not something I am prepared to
put up with. I was pretty clear in conceding this point in an earlier
post, whereas you bring it up again; I suspect that Woods actually
meant to direct his "intend on arguing" comment to you.
Open your eyes - there are many, many people around the world who have
the talent I am looking for and the motivation to deliver against my
budget. You, sir, are not one of them.
Chris
woods
cmac...@egroup.ca wrote:
>
> Open your eyes - there are many, many people around the world who have
> the talent I am looking for and the motivation to deliver against my
> budget. You, sir, are not one of them.
then go and find one somewhere else. NO ONE here wants to help you, nor
listen to your rants.
cmac...@egroup.ca
Now that I have gotten the irrelevant background "noise", kindly
provided by NotMe and woods, I can get to your post. I am delighted
that you took my bait and agreed to post again.
However, you surely can do better than that? Your post was merely
nit-picking at my previous message. Why is that? Pressed for time
this afternoon? I can imagine you want to get all that flaming in
other newsgroups out of the way before the weekend - you must be up to
your eyes in it, poor chap!
But getting back to the playful banter at hand. Why are you letting me
walk over you? Why are you letting me set the agenda for this
conversation? You repeatedly allow me to get away with irony, thinly
veiled criticism, wit not worthy of your illustrious posts - gee,
you've even let me split an infinitive or two!
You've posted three times today and it's been the same boring retort.
Use of foul language, this. Hurl an insult, that. I admit you have
permitted one or two smileys (ok, I am stretching a point). Perhaps
you borrowed these from the training manual you evidently used to
support your company's "friendly customer service" you advertise on
your web site.
Tell me, have you ever played a game of strategy with a young child?
You must know what I mean... The game becomes tedious as you easily
adapt to your opponent. A pity really - I get bored of those and just
concede points to him because I feel badly. I was quite enjoying this
for a while - do please give me a reason to continue this discourse
until my 5pm cut off time tomorrow.
I think you will fail, though. Your game has become predictable.
After visiting your portfolio web site, I see that this isn't much
different from your (so-called) artistic talent!
Chris
cmac...@egroup.ca
like a diatribe.
woods
Onideus Mad Hatter <use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote:
>
> I think you confuse thick skin with thick skull.
>
>
>
LMAO!!
Onideus Mad Hatter
>Dear Onideus -
Still writing love letters I see.
>Now that I have gotten the irrelevant background "noise", kindly
>provided by NotMe and woods, I can get to your post. I am delighted
>that you took my bait and agreed to post again.
Your "bait" huh? So you think you're trolling now, eh? Well, I gotta
tell ya, unless you're trying to troll me into making you look like a
stupid trainable...ya fucked up.
>However, you surely can do better than that?
I would never expect someone of your...height, to deserve any better.
>Your post was merely nit-picking at my previous message.
Can you prove this by snipping and running away from it? Of course
not.
>Why is that? Pressed for time
>this afternoon?
You're the one threatening to run away, Child.
>I can imagine you want to get all that flaming in
>other newsgroups out of the way before the weekend - you must be up to
>your eyes in it, poor chap!
Flaming? LOL, is THAT what you think I'm doing? *snicker*
>But getting back to the playful banter at hand. Why are you letting me
>walk over you?
Is that what you think you're doing? Well, you just keep on molesting
that lil red trolley all the way into Make Believe Land, kiddo.
>Why are you letting me set the agenda for this
>conversation?
A conversation would require interaction, you snip and run after every
post, there is no interaction. Luckily for me my readership is in no
way dependant upon the deficient drooler to whom I'm posting to. In
other words, you're largely inconsequential.
>You repeatedly allow me to get away with irony, thinly
>veiled criticism, wit not worthy of your illustrious posts - gee,
>you've even let me split an infinitive or two!
>You've posted three times today and it's been the same boring retort.
If you're bored you can always stop reading and replying to my every
post...no, wait, I guess you can't, huh? ^_^
>Use of foul language, this. Hurl an insult, that.
Awww, were you psychologically beaten to feel dirty as a child every
time you hear exclamatory remarks like FUCK. He, he, he...
>I admit you have
>permitted one or two smileys (ok, I am stretching a point). Perhaps
>you borrowed these from the training manual you evidently used to
>support your company's "friendly customer service" you advertise on
>your web site.
Awww, you don't think I'm being friendly? Well, I guess that means
you're not a customer, huh? `, )
>Tell me, have you ever played a game of strategy with a young child?
I guess if you want to call this conversation with you a "game of
strategy"...personally I wouldn't, child.
>You must know what I mean... The game becomes tedious as you easily
>adapt to your opponent.
You certainly are high on yourself, I'll give ya that. No offense or
anything, but I've made replies to poorly programmed Usenet bots that
have had more personality than you. For me...there is no opponent,
you can't kill a God after all.
>A pity really - I get bored of those and just
>concede points to him because I feel badly. I was quite enjoying this
>for a while - do please give me a reason to continue this discourse
>until my 5pm cut off time tomorrow.
Your "5pm cut off time"? Is that when your mommy takes away your
computer privileges? ^_^
>I think you will fail, though.
Well that's the problem really...you don't...think that is.
>Your game has become predictable.
Oh hey, I think this is the part where you run away crying whilst
trying to save face! I always love this part.
>After visiting your portfolio web site,
...I have a portfolio web site? When did this happen?
>I see that this isn't much
>different from your (so-called) artistic talent!
Oh Chrissy, you can certainly run at the mouth, I'll give ya that, but
when it comes time to step it the fuck on up and prove yerself...ya
fall up short. You have no sites, you can't find anyone to make yer
shit graphics...you know what that means? It means you have no
business. Tsch, tsch, tsch...just remember, I didn't make reality, I
just beat you with it. `, )
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ą x ą
Wizard of Draws
1138298933.4...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "cmac...@egroup.ca"
<cmac...@egroup.ca> wrote:
>
> My RFQ was scaled to reflect the level of work required; I am sure we
> will agree that a small project really doesn't need a multi-page brief.
> Besides, I would have hoped that the wide scope would interest true
> artists to apply as little or as much talent as they deemed
> appropriate. Anyone interested in bidding is very welcome to write me
> directly with links to their portfolios and compelling reasons why I
> should pay their market rates. If they want more information, I'll be
> happy to answer specific questions by email or phone. Heck, I'll even
> squeeze out a few extra bucks to pick up the cost of the call!
>
I wouldn't mind seeing the results of this project. I don't remember any
offers like this, ever posted back here to show how well it turned out
despite the low budget.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
http://www.wizardofdraws.com
More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
http://www.cartoonclipart.com
NotMe
| Woods,
|
| How did the lyrics from that song go? Something like "Be careful whose
| advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it". I couldn't
| agree more, and have indicated on several occasions my willingness to
| accept advice and have my opinion changed.
|
| If you carefully re-read all the posts, you'll see that only one person
| has actually provided any constructive advice. The rest of you have
| flamed, insulted and generally taken a condescending view of my posts.
|
| "Attitude"? How, precisely, does my attitude differ from yours? You
| have already acknowledged that you have "put a red line" through my
| name. I would have thought one of the basic tenets of art - supposedly
| an area in which you have talent - is freedom of expression and having
| an open mind... My "attitude" is of an open mind. Your's, evidently,
| is not.
|
| NotMe,
|
| carefully read the bits about Supply and Demand. Do you really think
| that your talent is so unique that it warrants a completely inelastic
| market? Maybe it is, but then again you're so secretive about your
| identity that I haven't had the opportunity to distinguish you from the
| myriad of other people who have flamed me - as far as I can tell,
| you're all alike.
My market is inelastic as I no longer have to work, i.e I've made my
bread, yours on the other hand is one of pandering because you lack the
money to do the deed and the imagination to work around that lack.
Microeconomics course? I got mine in the real world as I've been an
entrepreneur, i.e. one who puts his/her OWN a** on the line and rides with
the result, for more years than I care to count. I was successful enough at
it to take early retirement at the age of 40, started some new adventures at
42, then took a second early retirement a few years back. Right now I'm
involved in seed companies helping others start businesses of their own.
Many of these in the shadow of big box stores like Wal-Mart.
I well understand both supply and demand, you OTOH have little concept of
the supply process but seem to have an ample supply of under funded demands.
And before you go down the road of Daddy's money there was none of that.
The old man and his old man before him did well for themselves but gifted
their kids with education, encouragement and opportunity ... funding was the
kids responsibility as it was for my kids and will be for my grand kids.
And no I did not use Daddy's name/connections to get funding either.
| I thought we established earlier that it's fairly clear that if you're
| in a developed country (like the US) we will not be entering into a
| business relationship; my budget is not sufficient to support your
| needs, and - frankly - your attitude is not something I am prepared to
| put up with. I was pretty clear in conceding this point in an earlier
| post, whereas you bring it up again; I suspect that Woods actually
| meant to direct his "intend on arguing" comment to you.
| Open your eyes - there are many, many people around the world who have
| the talent I am looking for and the motivation to deliver against my
| budget. You, sir, are not one of them.
You make great, but erroneous, assumptions on where my market might be.
To paraphrase the old sales adage (when the client is sold, stop selling) if
you've found this golden source of cheap work product (I recall you did not
know how to do a web search for clip art) why are you wasting your time here
trying to sell this group on your business acclaim?
That said, if there are so many, many folk all around the world that are so
capable of doing what I do at such better prices why are there so people
from all over that same world sending their money to me?
As to Wood's open/closed mind on art. The work product is art, the mind set
you are whipping to death is one of being obstinate as you demand what you
cannot afford and blame those that will not supply you for your failure to
understand much less deal with the limits of your business plan.
But I tire of this game as it becomes repetitive and lacks challenge.
James Douglas
> On 25 Jan 2006 03:32:52 -0800, cmac...@egroup.ca wrote:
>
>> I am looking for a graphics designer for a very small piece of work.
>
> ...small in what respect? Small in file size? Small in resolution?
> Small in creativity?
hatter school for a few days?
Onideus Mad Hatter
...you are aware of the fact that I'm involved in quite literarily
dozens upon dozens of online communities all across teh grid...right?
It's not that unusual for me to be gone for a few days...a few
weeks...a few months...hell on occasion I've been know to go for few
YEARS. My perception of time is much different from yours. For me
months can pass and it only feels like a couple weeks. I've been
around for a very long time and I'll be around for far longer than
that...being a semi-immortal demon God has it's perks...Onideus...it's
not just a clever name. `, )
I do prefer creative froups and interests though...when I verbally rip
a person apart I gain certain aspects of their abilities and
understanding...too much exposure will turn them into an obsessed
pathetic, but if I'm careful I can take just enough without doing
permanent damage.
What, you think my skill in (art, web design, programming, rendering,
video editing, networking, etc, etc, etc) is all natural? *snicker*
You should have seen my web sites before I started snacking in
alt.html. ^_^
amgine
> On 1/26/06 1:08 PM, in article
> 1138298933.4...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "cmac...@egroup.ca"
> <cmac...@egroup.ca> wrote:
>>
>> My RFQ was scaled to reflect the level of work required; I am sure we
>> will agree that a small project really doesn't need a multi-page brief.
>> Besides, I would have hoped that the wide scope would interest true
>> artists to apply as little or as much talent as they deemed
>> appropriate. Anyone interested in bidding is very welcome to write me
>> directly with links to their portfolios and compelling reasons why I
>> should pay their market rates. If they want more information, I'll be
>> happy to answer specific questions by email or phone. Heck, I'll even
>> squeeze out a few extra bucks to pick up the cost of the call!
>>
>
> I wouldn't mind seeing the results of this project. I don't remember any
> offers like this, ever posted back here to show how well it turned out
> despite the low budget.
Yes. I'd like to see the results too.
mark...@gmail.com
back too... why do they always say "small job" instead of "i dont wanna
pay jack s**it for it"