Death and blood
Devil Plaything
of thoughts of death and blood and pain this weekend? Why do the knives in
the kitchen no longer register as just cutlery, and why does my eye linger
on them longer than it should? Why am I feeling paranoid, and don't want to
speak to anybody or reply to e-mails? Why does my brain fucking *want* to
feel this way? Why does it say "listen to some Marilyn Manson, listen to
some Mandalay, suffer some more" rather than "do something positive"? Is it
just because the weather sucks?
I will not cut, I will not hurt, I will not continue to feel this way. I've
spent a decade with a head full of these thoughts, and I'm fed up of it now.
Can I trade my brain in for a new one? This one seems to be broken...
Somebody pass me my coat...
(more Devil than Plaything today)
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SomburConfusion
Tooloose Lowtec
>
> So why, after feeling pretty good for two months on Celexa, is my head full
> of thoughts of death and blood and pain this weekend?
Brain chemistry is a delicate balancing act... in fact it is a wonder
that it is as stable as it is most of the time. Probably just a blip
that will pass.
--
Tooloose Lowtec
~Abstract Depressionist
Devil Plaything
"Tooloose Lowtec" <Tooloos...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3A92EC49...@netscape.net...
> Devil Plaything wrote:
> >
> > So why, after feeling pretty good for two months on Celexa, is my head
full
> > of thoughts of death and blood and pain this weekend?
>
> Brain chemistry is a delicate balancing act... in fact it is a wonder
> that it is as stable as it is most of the time. Probably just a blip
> that will pass.
>
Yeah... feeling better now. Not good, but better. Passed the long weekend
without breaking skin too, somehow.
> --
> Tooloose Lowtec
> ~Abstract Depressionist
>
>
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kim.
> > > So why, after feeling pretty good for two months on Celexa,
i was on celexa.
i'm off it now.
star
"Devil Plaything" <devil.p...@virgin.net.blocked> wrote in message
news:ka%j6.14746$Nj5.1...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> So why, after feeling pretty good for two months on Celexa, is my head
full
> of thoughts of death and blood and pain this weekend? Why do the knives
in
> the kitchen no longer register as just cutlery, and why does my eye linger
> on them longer than it should?
My depression seems to go round in cycles I guess I bounce back a little
easier and
there is longer between the dark patches but I don't think you can ever get
rid of them.
>Why am I feeling paranoid, and don't want to
> speak to anybody or reply to e-mails? Why does my brain fucking *want* to
> feel this way? Why does it say "listen to some Marilyn Manson, listen to
> some Mandalay, suffer some more" rather than "do something positive"? Is
it
> just because the weather sucks?
I was going to say ( or I did the first time ) I hope it wasn't something I
said
but you've mailed me back now, so I won't bother ;-)
>
> I will not cut, I will not hurt, I will not continue to feel this way.
I've
> spent a decade with a head full of these thoughts, and I'm fed up of it
now.
good positive thinking, keep it up
>
> Can I trade my brain in for a new one? This one seems to be broken...
well you can have mine, but it appears to be as broken as yours
>
> Somebody pass me my coat...
*passes coat*
Devil Plaything
news:15gm6.27165$5n4.5...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
Hi Star :-)
>
> My depression seems to go round in cycles I guess I bounce back a little
> easier and
> there is longer between the dark patches but I don't think you can ever
get
> rid of them.
>
Something I asked somewhere once and nobody replied... when I first started
to suffer from depression (age 15, for practical purposes), it used to come
in "attacks". It could hit me suddenly from nowhere, I'd feel the change as
a physical sensation, a coldness running through my body, and then my mind
would crash. It'd usually last until I slept and then I'd be ok for a month
or a few weeks. Gradually, the gaps between the attacks got shorter, until
it'd hit and I'd stay that way for days. Then weeks. It eventually settled
into a fairly regular pattern for years where I'd spend 3 months depressed,
then 2 weeks feeling fine, then repeat. Then eventually the depression just
became permanent, hasn't lifted much except in special circumstances for
years now. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse, but I never feel
"normal".
Is this how it happened for others?
>
> I was going to say ( or I did the first time ) I hope it wasn't something
I
> said
> but you've mailed me back now, so I won't bother ;-)
>
Certainly nothing you've said to me has caused me any upset.
> >
> > I will not cut, I will not hurt, I will not continue to feel this way.
> I've
> > spent a decade with a head full of these thoughts, and I'm fed up of it
> now.
>
> good positive thinking, keep it up
That's me... just can't stop them positive thoughts from coming.
> >
> > Can I trade my brain in for a new one? This one seems to be broken...
>
> well you can have mine, but it appears to be as broken as yours
Hey, a broken brain's better than nothing... I can use it for spare parts,
or a paperweight. Or a hat. Pop it in the post...
I'll send you my left arm in exchange if it's any use to you.
> >
> > Somebody pass me my coat...
>
> *passes coat*
>
Oh, ok...
*takes coat and leaves. Walks home in the rain*
Sleep time...
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Eris de Suzerain
>
> Something I asked somewhere once and nobody replied... when I first
started
> to suffer from depression (age 15, for practical purposes), it used to
come
> in "attacks". It could hit me suddenly from nowhere, I'd feel the change
as
> a physical sensation, a coldness running through my body, and then my mind
> would crash. It'd usually last until I slept and then I'd be ok for a
month
> or a few weeks. Gradually, the gaps between the attacks got shorter,
until
> it'd hit and I'd stay that way for days. Then weeks. It eventually
settled
> into a fairly regular pattern for years where I'd spend 3 months
depressed,
> then 2 weeks feeling fine, then repeat. Then eventually the depression
just
> became permanent, hasn't lifted much except in special circumstances for
> years now. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse, but I never feel
> "normal".
>
> Is this how it happened for others?
I remember wanting to die when I was like 6.... for as long as I can
remember I have hated myself, life in general - but not all the time... the
rest of the time I thought I was *special*...... as I got older, up to
around 11, it got worse and more frequent until I spent more time crying or
dying inside.... First decent suicide attempt was at 13, but the folks
didn't know (and a whole bottle of aspirin only makes your ears ring and
your stomach hurt, btw) - from then to 17 (last decent suicide attempt, 12
years ago) things got worse and worse - and I would sleep 2 or 3 hours (no
drugs besides caffeine) on week nights, I would visualize peoples being
decapitated as I walked thru school, images of violence in my head - scream
at people at the top of my lungs one day, and hide in my locker the next
(big lockers)..... I don't remember ever feeling "normal", I have been
"depressed" for as long as I can remember - had no friends because I was a
freak.... I just figured I was a waste of space in general ~ extremely
involved and studious one minute, extremeley (ha) apathetic (ha) another - -
I seem to get about two or three days of "Hell Yeah!" in, followed by a day
of being extremely confused, followed by a week or so of "Fuck it all, life
sux and so do I".... sometimes the cycles get tight, sometimes they are far
apart and there are a few stable days tossed in for good show.... sometimes
I can "feel" it coming in my body, and that's cool cuz then at least I can
prepare ~ but I've tried preparing "mentally" and it seems like the only
real thing I can do is relax, hide the sharp toys, unplug the phone....
because even tho I see it going into the depression, in the middle up to the
other end I'm blind as a bat.... Last bit, while you got me meandering on
this rabidly in my mind *I remember asking for help, not directly, but I
felt like I was going insane.... as a child.... and my parents... thought I
was just... *special* and *tempermental* and *sensitive* .... they never
told me to "jump it off" but they did take all of my black clothes away when
I was 16, and took the door off of my room when I was 17 (post suicide
attempt) ~ but nobody ever gave a fuck enough to ask how I was feeling - and
when I cried endlessly over nothing, it was "just hormones, dear, you'll get
over it"..... pfffft
Devil Plaything
"Eris de Suzerain" <er...@bitchgoddess.com> wrote in message
news:t9kjusl...@corp.supernews.com...
Hi Eris,
That sounds like quite an advanced start on the depression, must have been
hard. I know the depression was always in my background too... as a child I
would think about death a lot, always wanting to play the person who got
killed in games etc. The whole year of my life that erased itself from my
memory when I was 5 or 6 is pretty suspicious too. It wasn't a big problem
until I was 15 though, and I didn't actually try to kill myself until I
was... 17 I think (3 packs of paracetemol only makes you feel dizzy and
horribly sick through your hold body, btw). It doesn't sound as though your
parents dealt with it too well. My mum just cried a lot and tried to blame
herself, and my evil step-father just refused to take it seriously (probably
because he'd have to acknowledge culpability if he did).
Picturing horrible mutilation of people sounds like a university experience
I remember well. There was this huge corridor I had to walk down to get to
lectures (Leeds University, fact fans), and I'd always be walking fast &
alone, and constantly get stuck behind groups of people blocking the
corridor & walking slow. I really did wish I could just cut through them
and return from lectures through half a mile of blood and corpses. Happy
days, they were :-)
Have you actually been diagnosed as bipolar? Your description of cycling
sounds pretty bipolar to me. I never have been, and it's never occurred to
me that I am - I don't recall anything that sounds like mania in my life.
Maybe I'm subtly BP though, might explain traditional lack of response to
meds. Except they ought to send me manic I guess.
I don't think most people have much of a clue about depression, which
explains their generally useless responses. I certainly never did until I
was diagnosed, and started examining my behaviour and thoughts, and
appreciating what it meant. Lucky there's plenty of people here who do
though.
Simon
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Eris de Suzerain
I have seen one (1) "mental health" professional in my life - after my "big"
suicide attempt - Dr. Brown... it was a U.S. military hospital - he said I
was the most normal, well adjusted person he had met (but I suppose we pay
them to say that).... I've been told all my life that I'm too sensitive,
get over it, lighten up, etc. etc. and all that shit - even when I was
crying and out of my mind telling them that I had no fucking idea why I was
crying, or pissed, and that YES, I did know I had no good reason (my folks
were decent people, despite their inability to deal with my head.... they
are learning how to deal with theirs just now, what can I expect?)...... I
only guess that I could be what is described as Bi-polar when I read
descriptions of some of the behavior patterns, the mindstates, etc ~ last
year a dear, distant friend of mine was put away and diagnosed as Bi-polar,
first person I had ever met who could understand me when I rambled and went
into my ecstatic mindstates of complete euphoria.... anyway, him being
hospitalized led me to look into things, and it sounds familiar, like what
I've been experiencing my whole life, and almost like an explanation for why
I can't stand being looked at by people some days.... and why the other days
I can read and learn and intake information for hours at a time and not lose
a step or a pace, like being on natural speed almost it feels, and I wanna
DANCE.... But I'm paranoid, distrustful, and hate the idea of taking
medication.... If I thought I could trust a doctor to give me only what they
truly thought I needed for what I needed it for, I might entertain it... as
it is, seems they are too damn ready to shove pills down everyones throats
all of the time. And, while I hate the depression.... after the mania (or
what I presume to be mania) I find all kinds of crazy shit that I made, or
wrote.... at least that much is entertaining.
> I don't think most people have much of a clue about depression, which
> explains their generally useless responses. I certainly never did until I
> was diagnosed, and started examining my behaviour and thoughts, and
> appreciating what it meant. Lucky there's plenty of people here who do
> though.
>
> Simon
>
>
I have more respect for the *real* people I read here than most I meet - - -
and even just sitting here and reading the rest of *you* has been a great
therapy for me - - - and realizing that losing my mind isn't the end of the
world.... I'm still not sure I understand much about depression, or what the
fuck I want to do with it, around it, to avoid it, about it.... I can art
out my anger or mania, depression doesn't want to go anywhere.....
sorry, I lost my point, and someone is sitting here waiting to use the
computer - but I meant something at the beginning...
Devil Plaything
> I have seen one (1) "mental health" professional in my life - after my
"big"
> suicide attempt - Dr. Brown... it was a U.S. military hospital - he said I
> was the most normal, well adjusted person he had met (but I suppose we pay
> them to say that)....
Well, a psychiatrist in a military hospital probably has a slightly skewed
scale :-)
> I've been told all my life that I'm too sensitive,
> get over it, lighten up, etc. etc. and all that shit - even when I was
> crying and out of my mind telling them that I had no fucking idea why I
was
> crying, or pissed, and that YES, I did know I had no good reason (my folks
> were decent people, despite their inability to deal with my head.... they
> are learning how to deal with theirs just now, what can I expect?)......
Most people out there don't have a clue what's going on in their heads, and
don't often give the matter much thought. Depression, once recognised,
tends to make you analyse your thoughts and yourself, and other people and
life. It can be beneficial in this respect. Unfortunately the illness
itself makes it difficult to keep your analyses in perspective, or to use
them productively.
> I
> only guess that I could be what is described as Bi-polar when I read
> descriptions of some of the behavior patterns, the mindstates, etc ~ last
> year a dear, distant friend of mine was put away and diagnosed as
Bi-polar,
> first person I had ever met who could understand me when I rambled and
went
> into my ecstatic mindstates of complete euphoria.... anyway, him being
> hospitalized led me to look into things, and it sounds familiar, like what
> I've been experiencing my whole life, and almost like an explanation for
why
> I can't stand being looked at by people some days.... and why the other
days
> I can read and learn and intake information for hours at a time and not
lose
> a step or a pace, like being on natural speed almost it feels, and I wanna
> DANCE....
Yep, sounds like bipolar. I always think the mania side of it sounds quite
enviable, but I know it can be more disruptive than the depression in some
people.
> But I'm paranoid, distrustful, and hate the idea of taking
> medication.... If I thought I could trust a doctor to give me only what
they
> truly thought I needed for what I needed it for, I might entertain it...
as
> it is, seems they are too damn ready to shove pills down everyones throats
> all of the time.
Bipolar disorder is... less fashionable than depression, I guess, so it
doesn't have the big money push from the pharmaceutical companies to
prescribe prescribe prescribe. This is to your advantage. You're unlikely
to have pills pushed down your throat which you don't need. Unfortunately,
it also seems to be a harder condition to treat, and the lack of money push
also means lack of research & new drugs. I certainly wouldn't discount the
possible advantages of medication though.
> And, while I hate the depression.... after the mania (or
> what I presume to be mania) I find all kinds of crazy shit that I made, or
> wrote.... at least that much is entertaining.
>
See I'm jealous now! I used to take a lot of speed to give me this kind of
state, because it seemed to give me access to the things in life that
"normal people" have that seem missing from mine. Fun, enthusiasm,
sociability, the ability to survive for three days without food or sleep.
Unfortunately it comes at a cost. With some people the loss of control in a
manic state comes out in less productive actions - gambling/spending sprees,
reckless behaviour, antisocial actions etc. It seems like you've got a good
angle on it though.
> >
> I have more respect for the *real* people I read here than most I
meet - - -
> and even just sitting here and reading the rest of *you* has been a great
> therapy for me - - - and realizing that losing my mind isn't the end of
the
> world.... I'm still not sure I understand much about depression, or what
the
> fuck I want to do with it, around it, to avoid it, about it.... I can art
> out my anger or mania, depression doesn't want to go anywhere.....
>
Yeah, it makes life different and it makes life difficult, but it's not the
end of it, and it can cut a lot of the bullshit out of a person too. Some
it just turns into idiots though (which is why I prefer this group to ASD -
idiot filters are applied here).
> sorry, I lost my point, and someone is sitting here waiting to use the
> computer - but I meant something at the beginning...
>
Sounded like you had a point at the end too. It's not really a one point
issue, so don't worry about it :-)
Eris de Suzerain
will perceive all that I express as merely a product of being unbalanced,
rather than ever believing that I could actually mean what I am saying, and
be in my right head sometimes. I try to watch what I say, do - notice
patterns.... but I try to stand to the side of myself and not interfere or
try to "hold on" unless I find myself veering too far off... kind of like
being your own silent observer. When I say "interfering" with myself, I
mean: I spent the last 8 years or so completely repressing myself. Afraid of
expression. I wasn't depressed. or happy. or alive. or anything. I tried to
force myself to walk in a straight line, and for some reason my brain
doesn't function well in that space. Chaotic and up and down sucks some,
understanding some of its causes make it easier to deal with, but, unlike
the common descriptions of bipolar I have read, I do retain knowledge gained
when I go on binges of learning, and I retain skills learned when I go on
binges of making things... I'm scattered, but when I tried not to be I
didn't do anything...
> > But I'm paranoid, distrustful, and hate the idea of taking
> > medication.... If I thought I could trust a doctor to give me only what
> they
> > truly thought I needed for what I needed it for, I might entertain it...
> as
> > it is, seems they are too damn ready to shove pills down everyones
throats
> > all of the time.
>
> Bipolar disorder is... less fashionable than depression, I guess, so it
> doesn't have the big money push from the pharmaceutical companies to
> prescribe prescribe prescribe. This is to your advantage. You're
unlikely
> to have pills pushed down your throat which you don't need.
Unfortunately,
> it also seems to be a harder condition to treat, and the lack of money
push
> also means lack of research & new drugs. I certainly wouldn't discount
the
> possible advantages of medication though.
People I know personally have been treated for bipolar in the following
ways: Paxil, Lithium, Halcyon, Electroshock Therapy (yes, in Pittsburgh...
creepy). The other bad thing is... for insurance I have an HMO, the great
American Evil corporate health care bullshit... Kaiser Permanente... What
does this mean? A friend on the same plan called up to make an appointment
with the psychaitrist.... They asked what she needed to see someone for, she
described her extreme depression, he asked if she needed to see someone or
if she wanted him to just call in a prescription for Prozac for her... What
kind of doctor prescribes medications without even seeing a patient? I can't
say that they are all this way, and I believe that they can't all be
autonomized pharmaceutical company puppets, but I do know that the
physicians at the place I have health care coverage are... legitimately... I
have looked into private practice people, but I can't afford it. I live near
a major city in California, and there are only two choices of hospitals,
both evil... whiiiiiiine.... good or bad, i medicate myself instead when i
can, as it is cheaper than seeing a psych around here... maybe it's my
fucked up chemistry, but oddly enuff cannabis lightens my depression...
> > And, while I hate the depression.... after the mania (or
> > what I presume to be mania) I find all kinds of crazy shit that I made,
or
> > wrote.... at least that much is entertaining.
> >
>
> See I'm jealous now! I used to take a lot of speed to give me this kind
of
> state, because it seemed to give me access to the things in life that
> "normal people" have that seem missing from mine. Fun, enthusiasm,
> sociability, the ability to survive for three days without food or sleep.
> Unfortunately it comes at a cost. With some people the loss of control in
a
> manic state comes out in less productive actions - gambling/spending
sprees,
> reckless behaviour, antisocial actions etc. It seems like you've got a
good
> angle on it though.
As I said, I'm lucky, I know that. I know there are people who do outrageous
things that disrupt their lives in bad ways, or get righteously
delusional... I teeter this side of completely delusion most of the time,
it's mostly in a nice way at least. It's when the mania ends, there is this
crash - physically... suddenly I go from being able to understand things, to
being completely and utterly confused... it lasts about 2 or 3 days, a state
of complete dumbness... and then it's either up or down, usually down...
> > >
> > I have more respect for the *real* people I read here than most I
> meet - - -
> > and even just sitting here and reading the rest of *you* has been a
great
> > therapy for me - - - and realizing that losing my mind isn't the end of
> the
> > world.... I'm still not sure I understand much about depression, or what
> the
> > fuck I want to do with it, around it, to avoid it, about it.... I can
art
> > out my anger or mania, depression doesn't want to go anywhere.....
> >
>
> Yeah, it makes life different and it makes life difficult, but it's not
the
> end of it, and it can cut a lot of the bullshit out of a person too. Some
> it just turns into idiots though (which is why I prefer this group to
ASD -
> idiot filters are applied here).
Maybe it's the making life difficult part that makes "survivors" (i.e.
people still living and DAF or heavily nutty) seem to be (generally)
craftier than the average joe i meet.... could just be my wishful point of
view... I've met some that turned to jello, but I've met some that were
downright awe-inspiring... there's an idiot filter??? how did 1-2-3/Diggler
slip thru? someone needs to look into that!
Devil Plaything
> One of my major fears around being "diagnosed" or classified is that
people
> will perceive all that I express as merely a product of being unbalanced,
> rather than ever believing that I could actually mean what I am saying,
and
> be in my right head sometimes.
Hmmm... possibly quite a legitimate claim, but I don't think that's how it's
ever happened for me.
> I try to watch what I say, do - notice
> patterns.... but I try to stand to the side of myself and not interfere or
> try to "hold on" unless I find myself veering too far off... kind of like
> being your own silent observer. When I say "interfering" with myself, I
> mean: I spent the last 8 years or so completely repressing myself. Afraid
of
> expression. I wasn't depressed. or happy. or alive. or anything. I tried
to
> force myself to walk in a straight line, and for some reason my brain
> doesn't function well in that space. Chaotic and up and down sucks some,
> understanding some of its causes make it easier to deal with, but, unlike
> the common descriptions of bipolar I have read, I do retain knowledge
gained
> when I go on binges of learning, and I retain skills learned when I go on
> binges of making things... I'm scattered, but when I tried not to be I
> didn't do anything...
>
It's all part of you... try to contain it but not repress it I guess. But
then I'm just saying back to you what you've said, 'cause I don't really
know and it sounds like a good plan to me :-0
> People I know personally have been treated for bipolar in the following
> ways: Paxil, Lithium, Halcyon, Electroshock Therapy (yes, in Pittsburgh...
> creepy). The other bad thing is... for insurance I have an HMO, the great
> American Evil corporate health care bullshit... Kaiser Permanente...
I had a choice between Kaiser and Blue Cross, and decided I didn't like the
sound of Kaiser. Have yet to test Blue Cross though...
> What
> does this mean? A friend on the same plan called up to make an appointment
> with the psychaitrist.... They asked what she needed to see someone for,
she
> described her extreme depression, he asked if she needed to see someone or
> if she wanted him to just call in a prescription for Prozac for her...
Well, it's efficient :-) Not a good plan though
> What
> kind of doctor prescribes medications without even seeing a patient? I
can't
> say that they are all this way, and I believe that they can't all be
> autonomized pharmaceutical company puppets, but I do know that the
> physicians at the place I have health care coverage are... legitimately...
I
> have looked into private practice people, but I can't afford it. I live
near
> a major city in California,
Which one? I'm about 20 miles South of SF at the moment... trying to find
accommodation that isn't going to cost me $2000 a month for a 1 bedroom
apartment :-(
> and there are only two choices of hospitals,
> both evil... whiiiiiiine.... good or bad, i medicate myself instead when i
> can, as it is cheaper than seeing a psych around here... maybe it's my
> fucked up chemistry, but oddly enuff cannabis lightens my depression...
>
Yeuch... the stuff ruins me personally. Panic attacks, paranoia, confusion
just for starters. If it works for you though...
> As I said, I'm lucky, I know that. I know there are people who do
outrageous
> things that disrupt their lives in bad ways, or get righteously
> delusional... I teeter this side of completely delusion most of the time,
> it's mostly in a nice way at least. It's when the mania ends, there is
this
> crash - physically... suddenly I go from being able to understand things,
to
> being completely and utterly confused... it lasts about 2 or 3 days, a
state
> of complete dumbness... and then it's either up or down, usually down...
>
It must be pretty disruptive not to have a constant state... do you work?
> Maybe it's the making life difficult part that makes "survivors" (i.e.
> people still living and DAF or heavily nutty) seem to be (generally)
> craftier than the average joe i meet.... could just be my wishful point of
> view...
I think that's just intellect for the most part. Personally I'm not crafty
at all anymore, though I used to be... or at least sly.
> I've met some that turned to jello, but I've met some that were
> downright awe-inspiring... there's an idiot filter??? how did
1-2-3/Diggler
> slip thru? someone needs to look into that!
>
Yeah, that's definitely a case for return under warranty.
Eris de Suzerain
>
> "Eris de Suzerain" <er...@bitchgoddess.com> wrote in message
> news:t9rkhjq...@corp.supernews.com...
> > kind of doctor prescribes medications without even seeing a patient? I
> can't
> > say that they are all this way, and I believe that they can't all be
> > autonomized pharmaceutical company puppets, but I do know that the
> > physicians at the place I have health care coverage are...
legitimately...
> I
> > have looked into private practice people, but I can't afford it. I live
> near
> > a major city in California,
>
> Which one? I'm about 20 miles South of SF at the moment... trying to find
> accommodation that isn't going to cost me $2000 a month for a 1 bedroom
> apartment :-(
The Foothills near Sacramento (Excremento)... But I live in the middle of
almost nowhere... in a wooden one bedroom cabin, $450/mo.... took me two
years of renting bedrooms from strangers before I found it ~ wouldn't catch
me between San Fran and L.A., all that concrete gives me the heebeejeebies!
If you don't mind living near the bears and mountain lions (they are usually
quiet neighbors), there are a lot of cool places you can live, but if you
have to work in a city they tend to be either too far, or close enough and
too damned expensive..... It's a lot cheaper to live around here (only 2-3
hours away from you) than it is to live in the Bay Area, but this area is
like the California version of the Bible Belt, it's kind of yuppie, creepy
and surreal (where I work, where I live it is more like the California
version of Deliverance, but the locals are usually too drunk or busy beating
each other to bother any one else - or attending KKK meetings)
> > and there are only two choices of hospitals,
> > both evil... whiiiiiiine.... good or bad, i medicate myself instead when
i
> > can, as it is cheaper than seeing a psych around here... maybe it's my
> > fucked up chemistry, but oddly enuff cannabis lightens my depression...
> >
>
> Yeuch... the stuff ruins me personally. Panic attacks, paranoia,
confusion
> just for starters. If it works for you though...
I've seen that, seen people who physically pass out too (not just fall
asleep, like fall over and pass out for 15 minutes at a time. couldn't
convince him that maybe it was not a good idea ~) - - - Body chemistry and
how people interact with different substances is a funny thing - - - - maybe
the same reason that Codeine and Soma make me want to clean the house (used
to be a pill junkie, no more no more)
> > As I said, I'm lucky, I know that. I know there are people who do
> outrageous
> > things that disrupt their lives in bad ways, or get righteously
> > delusional... I teeter this side of completely delusion most of the
time,
> > it's mostly in a nice way at least. It's when the mania ends, there is
> this
> > crash - physically... suddenly I go from being able to understand
things,
> to
> > being completely and utterly confused... it lasts about 2 or 3 days, a
> state
> > of complete dumbness... and then it's either up or down, usually down...
> >
>
> It must be pretty disruptive not to have a constant state... do you work?
That's maybe the best and the worst part, I accidentally got into a career
where mentally instability is overlooked (or valued), I work as a graphic
artist/prepress technician/computer bitch - I'm the only one in my shop who
knows how to work all of my equipment, so when I don't want to talk to
anyone, or I'm being a freak, they are too afraid I'm going to quit to be
mean to me.... I have the advantage of an office with a door, and the
ability to crank whatever I want to listen to up reeaaaal loud whenever I
want (Loud music keeps people out of my office too, double advantage)....
the bad part is, they depend on me because I am the only one who can work
the shit. I told my boss I wanted to quit, that he could not depend on me,
that I am slowly but surely losing my mind - - - - but you have to be insane
to work where I do, so I'm still there for right now for lack of a better
thing to do, and because, well, they put up with my shit as long as I put up
with theirs ~ ~ but commercial graphic arts crap is evil, bad bad bad, I
want to work making books or something a little more uplifting than creating
more crap to convince people to buy more crap.....
But I guess I don't notice whether or not it's disruptive to not be in a
constant state, I never really have been so I don't know what I'm
missing - - - since I was a wee tot, my family moved every 3 years or so,
and as an adult I did the same, so my life has not had any constants by
which I can measure myself - no lifelong friends (or friends, for that
matter) - - - hmmm... maybe I just haven't been properly socialized, and my
brain is not as jumbled as it may appear in the mirror.... (yeah, that's it,
that's the ticket)...
Best of luck to your home search .... if you don't HAVE to live by the city,
there are some quiet communities to hide in here and there where things
aren't quite so expensive - - you just have to mind the rednecks and the
meth labs, but those are increasingly harder to avoid.....
midnight
"Devil Plaything" <devil.p...@virgin.net.blocked> wrote in message
> "star" <sta...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:15gm6.27165$5n4.5...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> >
>
> Hi Star :-)
Hiya
yeah for me anyhow, I've suffered since my early teens
>
> >
> > I was going to say ( or I did the first time ) I hope it wasn't
something
> I
> > said
> > but you've mailed me back now, so I won't bother ;-)
> >
>
> Certainly nothing you've said to me has caused me any upset.
good
>
> > >
> > > I will not cut, I will not hurt, I will not continue to feel this way.
> > I've
> > > spent a decade with a head full of these thoughts, and I'm fed up of
it
> > now.
> >
> > good positive thinking, keep it up
>
> That's me... just can't stop them positive thoughts from coming
LOL don't go to far
or
please send me some
>
> > >
> > > Can I trade my brain in for a new one? This one seems to be broken...
> >
> > well you can have mine, but it appears to be as broken as yours
>
> Hey, a broken brain's better than nothing... I can use it for spare parts,
> or a paperweight. Or a hat. Pop it in the post...
okay
I'll get one of those nice boxes from the post office to place it in
>
> I'll send you my left arm in exchange if it's any use to you.
ummm left arm
well thanks anyway
>
> > >
> > > Somebody pass me my coat...
> >
> > *passes coat*
> >
>
> Oh, ok...
>
> *takes coat and leaves. Walks home in the rain*
>
> Sleep time...
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
pass the blu tac
Devil Plaything
> The Foothills near Sacramento (Excremento)... But I live in the middle of
> almost nowhere... in a wooden one bedroom cabin, $450/mo.... took me two
> years of renting bedrooms from strangers before I found it ~ wouldn't
catch
> me between San Fran and L.A., all that concrete gives me the
heebeejeebies!
> If you don't mind living near the bears and mountain lions (they are
usually
> quiet neighbors), there are a lot of cool places you can live, but if you
> have to work in a city they tend to be either too far, or close enough and
> too damned expensive.....
Ah, "up north" as they say in England. I can't imagine living out in the
country, even though I pretty much grew up in a series of quiet Northern
(UK) villages. I have to be pretty close to work since I can't currently
drive (though California has seen fit to offer me a temporary license
anyway, which is nice. And dangerous). $450 a month would get me a closet
around here - not even an empty closet. Probably have bears and mice in
there too.
> It's a lot cheaper to live around here (only 2-3
> hours away from you) than it is to live in the Bay Area, but this area is
> like the California version of the Bible Belt, it's kind of yuppie, creepy
> and surreal (where I work, where I live it is more like the California
> version of Deliverance, but the locals are usually too drunk or busy
beating
> each other to bother any one else - or attending KKK meetings)
>
Yeuch! You don't work in real estate, do you? I can tell...
"Yes sir, the drunks can be violent but only if you're black. Or they don't
like you."
The bay area seems to have a lot of nice people - all the ones I've met
anyway.
> I've seen that, seen people who physically pass out too (not just fall
> asleep, like fall over and pass out for 15 minutes at a time. couldn't
> convince him that maybe it was not a good idea ~) - - - Body chemistry and
> how people interact with different substances is a funny thing - - - -
maybe
> the same reason that Codeine and Soma make me want to clean the house
(used
> to be a pill junkie, no more no more)
>
Codeine & Soma? I currently have 11 bottles of pills on my bedside table,
of which I take at least one of each every morning, plus celexa. I heart my
pills :-) None of them make me want to clean anything though.
> That's maybe the best and the worst part, I accidentally got into a career
> where mentally instability is overlooked (or valued), I work as a graphic
> artist/prepress technician/computer bitch - I'm the only one in my shop
who
> knows how to work all of my equipment, so when I don't want to talk to
> anyone, or I'm being a freak, they are too afraid I'm going to quit to be
> mean to me....
Ah, it's expected of you if you have an "artistic temparement" *and* you
work with computers.
> I have the advantage of an office with a door, and the
> ability to crank whatever I want to listen to up reeaaaal loud whenever I
> want (Loud music keeps people out of my office too, double advantage)....
> the bad part is, they depend on me because I am the only one who can work
> the shit. I told my boss I wanted to quit, that he could not depend on me,
> that I am slowly but surely losing my mind - - - - but you have to be
insane
> to work where I do, so I'm still there for right now for lack of a better
> thing to do, and because, well, they put up with my shit as long as I put
up
> with theirs ~ ~ but commercial graphic arts crap is evil, bad bad bad, I
> want to work making books or something a little more uplifting than
creating
> more crap to convince people to buy more crap.....
>
You usually tend to think that an art job would be necessarily creative, but
it's just as controlled by the money as most others. I took a job with Sony
largely because we do get a large amount of freedom to practise our art
(programming for me).
> But I guess I don't notice whether or not it's disruptive to not be in a
> constant state, I never really have been so I don't know what I'm
> missing - - - since I was a wee tot, my family moved every 3 years or so,
> and as an adult I did the same, so my life has not had any constants by
> which I can measure myself - no lifelong friends (or friends, for that
> matter) - - - hmmm... maybe I just haven't been properly socialized, and
my
> brain is not as jumbled as it may appear in the mirror.... (yeah, that's
it,
> that's the ticket)...
>
7 homes in my first 7 years, and one every 3 years since then more or less.
Usually just my mum & me moving with random stepfathers coming and going.
No friends? What about the people here! OK, it's not quite the same as
real life people with bodies and voices. It is difficult, if you don't have
people to talk with about your thoughts and feelings, to keep them clear &
in perspective. I find the ngs helpful for this.
> Best of luck to your home search .... if you don't HAVE to live by the
city,
> there are some quiet communities to hide in here and there where things
> aren't quite so expensive - - you just have to mind the rednecks and the
> meth labs, but those are increasingly harder to avoid.....
>
Thanks. Haven't seen any rednecks or meth labs around here, seems like a
pretty up-scale community. Which is probably why I can't really afford to
live here. Going to see a room in a shared house later today that I have a
good feeling about though.
Devil Plaything
"midnight" <midn...@kangaroomail.com> wrote in message
news:znAn6.1439$e83.1...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> Hiya
>
Hello midnight :-)
> > Is this how it happened for others?
>
> yeah for me anyhow, I've suffered since my early teens
>
Seems to be a common time for onset. Not an easy time, no matter how much
"these are the best days of your life" (I presume everybody got that from
the grown-ups).
>
> LOL don't go to far
> or
> please send me some
Ok... err...
Within ten years we'll have sentient machines that far exceed humans in
intelligence, and they'll sort out all our problems for us.
And then go mad with the burden of responsibility, and kill us all with
nuclear weapons.
Oh shit, well I nearly managed one.
Hang on, that actually sounds pretty good!
> > I'll send you my left arm in exchange if it's any use to you.
>
> ummm left arm
> well thanks anyway
We can negotiate on anatomical details.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.230 / Virus Database: 111 - Release Date: 25/01/01
Eris de Suzerain
"Devil Plaything" <devil.p...@virgin.net.blocked> wrote in message
>
> "Eris de Suzerain" <er...@bitchgoddess.com> wrote in message
> news:t9sl2a9...@corp.supernews.com...
> > It's a lot cheaper to live around here (only 2-3
> > hours away from you) than it is to live in the Bay Area, but this area
is
> > like the California version of the Bible Belt, it's kind of yuppie,
creepy
> > and surreal (where I work, where I live it is more like the California
> > version of Deliverance, but the locals are usually too drunk or busy
> beating
> > each other to bother any one else - or attending KKK meetings)
> >
>
> Yeuch! You don't work in real estate, do you? I can tell...
Hey, take that back! real estate is against my de-religion, i will have to
declare jihad on you!! (too much caffeine, apologies)
> "Yes sir, the drunks can be violent but only if you're black. Or they
don't
> like you."
>
> The bay area seems to have a lot of nice people - all the ones I've met
> anyway.
>
>
> You usually tend to think that an art job would be necessarily creative,
but
> it's just as controlled by the money as most others. I took a job with
Sony
> largely because we do get a large amount of freedom to practise our art
> (programming for me).
Actually, i didn't think about it at all, it was pure accident that i got to
doing what i'm doing... glad i didn't go to school and get a degree for it,
tho - seems a waste... actually, know what i want to do? open a non-profit
independent library somewhere... with lots of books, philosophy and sciences
and a computer lab and this is all in my wet dreams only because it i
haven't figured out how to get around money, but i am an ordained minister
so i thought maybe i could start the First Church of Knowledge and hmmmm....
maybe president bush will give me some money.....
> > But I guess I don't notice whether or not it's disruptive to not be in a
> > constant state, I never really have been so I don't know what I'm
> > missing - - - since I was a wee tot, my family moved every 3 years or
so,
> > and as an adult I did the same, so my life has not had any constants by
> > which I can measure myself - no lifelong friends (or friends, for that
> > matter) - - - hmmm... maybe I just haven't been properly socialized, and
> my
> > brain is not as jumbled as it may appear in the mirror.... (yeah, that's
> it,
> > that's the ticket)...
> >
>
> 7 homes in my first 7 years, and one every 3 years since then more or
less.
> Usually just my mum & me moving with random stepfathers coming and going.
> No friends? What about the people here! OK, it's not quite the same as
> real life people with bodies and voices. It is difficult, if you don't
have
> people to talk with about your thoughts and feelings, to keep them clear &
> in perspective. I find the ngs helpful for this.
thanks for making me feel less insane. i've had invisible friends my whole
life, actually this is cooler because i have no control over the reaction
and get a new thought in exchange for my old one - - - i don't think i asked
your age, but a million years ago before the internet was for regular
people, people like us played on BBS's, dial up direct to another fellas
computer, we were almost all a legion of the DAF, because "normal" people
wouldn't be bothered with the amount of time it took to get to a text only
page full of other desperately lonely or freaky people looking for
interaction - *back in the day when 14,400 was FAST*
> > Best of luck to your home search .... if you don't HAVE to live by the
> city,
> > there are some quiet communities to hide in here and there where things
> > aren't quite so expensive - - you just have to mind the rednecks and the
> > meth labs, but those are increasingly harder to avoid.....
> >
>
> Thanks. Haven't seen any rednecks or meth labs around here, seems like a
> pretty up-scale community. Which is probably why I can't really afford to
> live here. Going to see a room in a shared house later today that I have
a
> good feeling about though.
>
The first two years I spent in Cali I was renting rooms from strangers - it
was one of the most bizarre experiences, made me figure out that while i may
have problems, there are a lot of people i am glad that i am NOT. If you
view it anthropologically, you can make it into a fun mind safari experience
~ ~
Tooloose Lowtec
> <snippage>
> >
>
> That's maybe the best and the worst part, I accidentally got into a career
> where mentally instability is overlooked (or valued), I work as a graphic
> artist/prepress technician/computer bitch
Eris... I'm an escapee from that racket... and I'll *never* go back.
> - I'm the only one in my shop who
> knows how to work all of my equipment, so when I don't want to talk to
> anyone, or I'm being a freak, they are too afraid I'm going to quit to be
> mean to me....
I was just talking to a friend last night about this... The advertising agency
I ended up working for (some design, some assembly in the mid 80's pre mac
dominance i.e.. real cut & paste) was a real pressure cooker even by
advertising agency standards... I'd just spent a frustrating 3 hrs on a
complex 2 full page newspaper retail spread (BUY or DIE!!! Save BIG NOW!!!)
with a zillion parts... the layout had been approved by client & agency...
The slimebag who owned the agency walks up to the table and mutters "no no no"
and starts pulling the flat apart moving all kindsa shit around (3 hours to
print deadline). I lost it. I turned purple and screamed at him to "Fuck off
& die!!!!". He looks at me and says... "Uh, can I see you in my office" I
thought well that's it I'm outta here. He closes the office door behind us and
doesn't say anything for a minute. Then he says "You know... we don't pay you
nearly enough" and proceeds to give me a massive raise (upped my salary about
50%).
> I have the advantage of an office with a door, and the
> ability to crank whatever I want to listen to up reeaaaal loud whenever I
> want (Loud music keeps people out of my office too, double advantage)....
> the bad part is, they depend on me because I am the only one who can work
> the shit. I told my boss I wanted to quit, that he could not depend on me,
> that I am slowly but surely losing my mind
I only lasted another 6 months after that episode... spiralled down into
depression so bad seriously I tried to off myself.
> - - - - but you have to be insane
> to work where I do, so I'm still there for right now for lack of a better
> thing to do, and because, well, they put up with my shit as long as I put up
> with theirs ~ ~ but commercial graphic arts crap is evil, bad bad bad, I
> want to work making books or something a little more uplifting than creating
> more crap to convince people to buy more crap.....
And I think that's what got to me the worst... it wasn't just the insane
deadline pressure (though that was a contributing factor) it was the internal
conflict of spending massive amounts of time & energy creating utter bullshit
(they had no compunction about outright lies) for assholes with money so they
could sell utter bullshit to people who didn't need *any* of it. And I was
being a pair of hands for these scumbags and trying to remain uncorrupted.
Made me want to spew and spew until there was none of it left inside me.
--
Tooloose
Devil Plaything
> Hey, take that back! real estate is against my de-religion, i will have to
> declare jihad on you!! (too much caffeine, apologies)
>
Yeah, I didn't really picture you as the "sell people land" type :-)
> Actually, i didn't think about it at all, it was pure accident that i got
to
> doing what i'm doing... glad i didn't go to school and get a degree for
it,
> tho - seems a waste... actually, know what i want to do? open a non-profit
> independent library somewhere... with lots of books, philosophy and
sciences
> and a computer lab and this is all in my wet dreams only because it i
> haven't figured out how to get around money, but i am an ordained minister
> so i thought maybe i could start the First Church of Knowledge and
hmmmm....
> maybe president bush will give me some money.....
>
Most important things in life happen by accident... life is too unusual to
try to control it any.
It is a good ambition you have... I remember when I used to have
humanitarian ambitions too (for me it was writing with which I hoped to fix
the worlds problems). Don't have the levels of conviction I used to these
days though (I remain vegetarian purely because I know I was a better person
when I made the decision that I shouldn't eat meat).
I'm sure G.W. would be happy to hand out some dollars for your cause... he's
clearly heavily into education and open-mindedness.
(He's not? But he seems so sweet!)
> thanks for making me feel less insane. i've had invisible friends my whole
> life, actually this is cooler because i have no control over the reaction
> and get a new thought in exchange for my old one - - - i don't think i
asked
> your age, but a million years ago before the internet was for regular
> people, people like us played on BBS's, dial up direct to another fellas
> computer, we were almost all a legion of the DAF, because "normal" people
> wouldn't be bothered with the amount of time it took to get to a text only
> page full of other desperately lonely or freaky people looking for
> interaction - *back in the day when 14,400 was FAST*
>
Hey... I remember when 1200 baud was fast! Not that I'm that old, and I
never did get into the BBS thing myself really.
> The first two years I spent in Cali I was renting rooms from strangers -
it
> was one of the most bizarre experiences, made me figure out that while i
may
> have problems, there are a lot of people i am glad that i am NOT. If you
> view it anthropologically, you can make it into a fun mind safari
experience
I think it's got to be a good influence on me... I spent the last few years
in the UK as a recluse, avoiding social contact as much as possible. I want
to try and undo that now, but I know nobody in the whole country so it's
difficult. I get on well with my colleagues, and hang out with them, but
most of them are in couple-situations so there's not much imperative for
them to go out meeting people & expanding their social circles. Got to be
good for me having contact with other people anyhoo.
Simon
Eris de Suzerain
> Eris de Suzerain wrote:
>
> > <snippage>
> > >
> >
> > That's maybe the best and the worst part, I accidentally got into a
career
> > where mentally instability is overlooked (or valued), I work as a
graphic
> > artist/prepress technician/computer bitch
>
> Eris... I'm an escapee from that racket... and I'll *never* go back.
but: i have no money (savings), car runs shitty, no real skills, no "real"
education, no desire to live on the streets, no property i own so have to
pay rent... i know how to simplify my life, i don't buy things - or at least
minimally.... i don't know how to find a part time job that pays enough for
me to pay my rent without forcing me to work 50 hours a week... i was
looking for another job in the paper, and i almost shit myself when i saw an
ad that read "mandatory 50 hour work weeks" "good attitude a must"
ahahahahaaaaaahhhhh!! i just want a humble job, a humble life, to be left to
my mind and my ruminations - i don't want to be owned by ANYONE. least of
all the mind control trade, but really not by any of them - i keep looking
and i can't see a master that i want to serve ~ i have a growing distaste
for the intellectual slavery of economy, and i'm not quite bright enough to
find my way around it..... arghFuck. sorry, sorry..... moving along....
i had a plastic bag over my head more than once last year... no real
effective sharp weapons lying around here, and my gun has no firing pin!
lately though, despite the fact that i desperately need to find another job
or another way of living before i eat myself alive with this, i am still
glad i am not my co-workers or my boss... because i realize beneath it all
that they are the sick fucks and i AM the only sane one there.... as my
christian co-worker justifies working 60 hours a week because he QUOTE loves
money END-QUOTE and my bosses daughter throws tantrums in the office because
he is an ineffective, cold, greedy mother-fucker who never gave anyone
anything but shit his whole life... people treat each other so poorly, the
churches are trying to get people in the door by sending out mailers
promising free cappucinnos and candy for the kids, money and theft of spirit
become so important that they look at me with utter shock "You have to work
hard when you're young so you have money to be comfortable when you're
old!" - - - so I can be comfortable while I die, as the retirement age
creeps up higher and higher? work and then retire 2 to 5 years before i kick
off so i can relax and enjoy life??? argh! fuck that.... i'm young and
fruityful now! (sorry, there i went again - by product of ink vapor
inhalation).... I want to shift jobs, if i have to work, but i really want
to be useful... i don't want to go work at some other shit i hate like fast
food, or stores, or for a construction company.... i really really really
just want to find a community of intelligent, real people who are REAL - not
eternally mean and not eternally with sunshine blowing out their asses, real
and not fucking petty - and have a nice isolated community, sell vegetables
or something to support it, solar power, argh...... I hate here, i hate
today - it seems like it could all be so fucking simple.
> > - - - - but you have to be insane
> > to work where I do, so I'm still there for right now for lack of a
better
> > thing to do, and because, well, they put up with my shit as long as I
put up
> > with theirs ~ ~ but commercial graphic arts crap is evil, bad bad bad, I
> > want to work making books or something a little more uplifting than
creating
> > more crap to convince people to buy more crap.....
>
> And I think that's what got to me the worst... it wasn't just the insane
> deadline pressure (though that was a contributing factor) it was the
internal
> conflict of spending massive amounts of time & energy creating utter
bullshit
> (they had no compunction about outright lies) for assholes with money so
they
> could sell utter bullshit to people who didn't need *any* of it. And I was
> being a pair of hands for these scumbags and trying to remain uncorrupted.
> Made me want to spew and spew until there was none of it left inside me.
>
> --
> Tooloose
And this is another reason i hate myself - because the "money" i spend to
buy things (like internet access, fer instance) comes from wages earned for
effectively enabling the machine... i almost collapsed the last time i was
in a regular grocery store, i shit you not: walking down the aisle trying to
find something and i passed an endcap with a big bright picture of two
extremely happy, beautiful little girls eating crackers with fake cheese
spread, the kind that come in the little packages with 4 crackers, some fake
cheese and a little plastic stick. i remembered being a child, seeing as a
child - and from a childs point of view, those kids are happy, happy is
good, happy comes in packages, mom - can i have some happy, pleeeeease???
Mom sees picture, sees unhappy kid - kids on picture look happy and healthy,
mommy wants kids to be happy and healthy, how can mommy deny kids what makes
other kids (the ones in the picture) happy? And it works, that's why it's
there - and what it's selling is poison and obesity and cancer and ....
well, it makes me sick... and then next thought after that was: if no one
was there to make it, it wouldn't be here.... it's people just like me. it's
me. i can't stand grocery stores, border on agoraphobic (sp), have no tv -
hate it all, hate the malls, the stores, the plastic, the obscenity of
manufactured reality.... and i don't know what to do about it, except to try
not to destroy myself in figuring it out, and also try to not forget how
ugly it is so i stay motivated....
but first i'm going to go kick some stuff...
synchro
you remind me of a guy i read about once. the author called the guy a
"steppenwulf". tho the term has a meaning to certain cultures in europe
[eastern?], hesse's descriptive was a personal one.
Eris de Suzerain
"synchro" <syn...@engine7.greatxscape.net> wrote in message
news:97temd$927$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
Dostoyevskyish, where he was noble and true and died a tragic death
eternally misunderstood and persecuted unjustly? or just a flaming wingnut
with a wild jumping hare up his arse? (looking for predictions for my near
future....)
Eris de Suzerain
>
> "Eris de Suzerain" <er...@bitchgoddess.com> wrote in message
> news:ta2nfq5...@corp.supernews.com...
>
got
> to
> > doing what i'm doing... glad i didn't go to school and get a degree for
> it,
> > tho - seems a waste... actually, know what i want to do? open a
non-profit
> > independent library somewhere... with lots of books, philosophy and
> sciences
> > and a computer lab and this is all in my wet dreams only because it i
> > haven't figured out how to get around money, but i am an ordained
minister
> > so i thought maybe i could start the First Church of Knowledge and
> hmmmm....
> > maybe president bush will give me some money.....
> >
>
> Most important things in life happen by accident... life is too unusual to
> try to control it any.
>
> It is a good ambition you have... I remember when I used to have
> humanitarian ambitions too (for me it was writing with which I hoped to
fix
> the worlds problems). Don't have the levels of conviction I used to these
> days though (I remain vegetarian purely because I know I was a better
person
> when I made the decision that I shouldn't eat meat).
do-able - in my fantasies, at least, as I can't seem to get them together
except in my head - I can't make people pull their heads out of their asses,
but I can help to promote literacy and some level of understanding on use
and application of knowledge - which is the base tool people need for all
other potential progress to occur... Remaining a vegetarian isn't so hard
anymore, tho - even if you don't mind eating critters, look at the
conditions they live in and the conditions they are prepared for your
consumption under - too many hands, too many diseases - eeeeewwwwww.....
> I'm sure G.W. would be happy to hand out some dollars for your cause...
he's
> clearly heavily into education and open-mindedness.
>
> (He's not? But he seems so sweet!)
Did you listen to that horrible speech????? Did you??? Did you hear the
sheep-people CHEERING at every thing he said, whether it made sense or
not???? If things get much more ludicrous, I'm gonna hafta hang up my hat
and call this reality null and void. Actually, to hell with it: as of right
now, there is no George Bush, there is no Television Programming. All
advertising campaigns are hereby declared Enemies of the People and will be
burned in a giant bonfire, which will end with live nude girls swallowing
flaming swords while balancing on a tightrope. so there.
> > The first two years I spent in Cali I was renting rooms from strangers -
> it
> > was one of the most bizarre experiences, made me figure out that while i
> may
> > have problems, there are a lot of people i am glad that i am NOT. If you
> > view it anthropologically, you can make it into a fun mind safari
> experience
>
> I think it's got to be a good influence on me... I spent the last few
years
> in the UK as a recluse, avoiding social contact as much as possible. I
want
> to try and undo that now, but I know nobody in the whole country so it's
> difficult. I get on well with my colleagues, and hang out with them, but
> most of them are in couple-situations so there's not much imperative for
> them to go out meeting people & expanding their social circles. Got to be
> good for me having contact with other people anyhoo.
>
It really depends on who you get a room from, sometimes it can have the
opposite effect.... Good luck ~ I had the strangest experiences applying for
rooms, the fun part is seeing how much people reveal themselves in the way
in which they approach you (i.e. dominant or friendly, needy or
greedy) - - - oi..... i've avoided leaving this area for a year because i
can't handle going through the renting/application crap right now ~ seems so
invasive and yucky... *shudders at the memory*.....
Brian Paul
<er...@bitchgoddess.com> wrote:
>"Devil Plaything" <devil.p...@virgin.net.blocked> wrote in message
>news:w9eo6.2466$UN5.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>
>> "Eris de Suzerain" <er...@bitchgoddess.com> wrote in message
>> news:ta2nfq5...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
-snip-
>I've been trying to keep my humanitarian ambitions a little smaller and more
>do-able - in my fantasies, at least, as I can't seem to get them together
>except in my head - I can't make people pull their heads out of their asses,
>but I can help to promote literacy and some level of understanding on use
>and application of knowledge - which is the base tool people need for all
>other potential progress to occur... Remaining a vegetarian isn't so hard
>anymore, tho - even if you don't mind eating critters, look at the
>conditions they live in and the conditions they are prepared for your
>consumption under - too many hands, too many diseases - eeeeewwwwww.....
>
Pulling people's heads out of their asses is like trying to de-louse a
turgid donkey with a cattle prod - the sex is good but no one
appreciates the artistry. Your point about knowledge is good, but
mere understanding and application are not sufficient for progress --
unless you include the ability to persuade someone to finance the
application of said knowledge. Including that last point changes the
potentiality of the progress from latent to active. However, one must
still persuade others that it is in their best interests to consume
the good or service being offered. TANSTAAFL at the time but gains
eventually accrue to all, or most.
Vegetarianism is a perfect example of the above: the vegetarian diet
is far more efficient than the omnivorous diet of most. However, the
beef, chicken, pig and associated offal industries are far more
effective at advertising. Indeed, the best advertising for produce
occurs in produce industry magazines. Sure, the grocery chains
advertise individual items quite effectively, but the overall push
towards the inclusion of a broader offering of items for the
vegetarian diet is being ignored in most locales. Why?
As near as I can figure, most people in procurement and
merchandising, due to the conservative nature of their trade, are not
interested in taking a risk on an uncertain prospect. Take for
instance this one product: Glenny's Soy Crisps. For those of you
outside the New York area, these are soy chips similar to rice-cake
chips but packed with protein and with the greasy potato chip after
taste. A wonderful product, far superior to typical vending machine
fare. I would have recommended that we put them in our stores in more
affluent neighborhoods, but due to corporate restructuring, we had to
send the decision on to our corporate headquarters, where the choice
was obviously vetoed. Since my departure was imminent from that
place, I could not exercise my powers of persuasion to influence the
corporate folk. Thus, the use and application of knowledge must be
accompanied by the powers of persuasion for progress to occur.
>> I'm sure G.W. would be happy to hand out some dollars for your cause...
>he's
>> clearly heavily into education and open-mindedness.
>>
>> (He's not? But he seems so sweet!)
>Did you listen to that horrible speech????? Did you??? Did you hear the
>sheep-people CHEERING at every thing he said, whether it made sense or
>not???? If things get much more ludicrous, I'm gonna hafta hang up my hat
>and call this reality null and void. Actually, to hell with it: as of right
>now, there is no George Bush, there is no Television Programming. All
>advertising campaigns are hereby declared Enemies of the People and will be
>burned in a giant bonfire, which will end with live nude girls swallowing
>flaming swords while balancing on a tightrope. so there.
>
>
Bush is a nice person, for the most part. He does not ooze charisma
from his every pore as did his predecessor, but the only way he could
go this far on so little is that he is able to play the respectable,
good man. Bush scares me, for his handlers direct him very well, and
his words sound nice. If he had the charisma of Billy boy, or the
presence of pre-asassination attempt Reagan, he could turn out to be
the greatest despot ever. It is the Reagan years all over: a
president promising greater liberty while the jack-booted thugs grease
their greeves and prepare to sally-forth. We even have Alan "It's
Just a Recession Bay-bee!" Greenspan evasively supporting Dubya's
tax-cut plan to draw attention away from his planned recession.
So, what do we have at the end of this day:
Paradise on the right, hell on the left, the angel of death behind,
and live real-time two-way streaming teenage lesbian nude girls
swallowing swords to a soundtrack by Eminem and Elton John. And
remember kids, "beef, it's what's for dinner", and "eat more Chikkin"
so that you can grow up to be "an army of one" building a rich kid's
star war toys while the lights of the rapture gleam in his followers'
eyes, or until you're downsized 'cuz the Fed's decided the credit
markets are so loose that the economy has reached the point of sloppy
42nds, and your unemployment is nicer than inflation hurting the rich.
-snip-
It's fun to get off on a rant,
/brian paul
"All your base are belong to us."
synchro
i s'pose the steppenwulf is the most individualistic individual ever. a sort
of self enforced exile upon the human race?
Devil Plaything
> I've been trying to keep my humanitarian ambitions a little smaller and
more
> do-able - in my fantasies, at least, as I can't seem to get them together
> except in my head - I can't make people pull their heads out of their
asses,
> but I can help to promote literacy and some level of understanding on use
> and application of knowledge - which is the base tool people need for all
> other potential progress to occur... Remaining a vegetarian isn't so hard
> anymore, tho - even if you don't mind eating critters, look at the
> conditions they live in and the conditions they are prepared for your
> consumption under - too many hands, too many diseases - eeeeewwwwww.....
>
Keep your ideals, they're something worth living for. I don't know where I
lost mine... somewhere in the pain & bitterness of a broken heart I think.
I miss them every day. The fact that you think about the state of the world
and want to improve it is a great thing. Smaller & more do-able sounds more
practical, but maybe it's the beginning of acceptance of the way things are.
Keep them multi-tiered instead, doable ones at the top with lofty ones
underneath as bedrock. Maybe you'll get the top row done and be glad
there's more to work on below.
> Did you listen to that horrible speech????? Did you??? Did you hear the
> sheep-people CHEERING at every thing he said, whether it made sense or
> not???? If things get much more ludicrous, I'm gonna hafta hang up my hat
> and call this reality null and void. Actually, to hell with it: as of
right
> now, there is no George Bush, there is no Television Programming. All
> advertising campaigns are hereby declared Enemies of the People and will
be
> burned in a giant bonfire, which will end with live nude girls swallowing
> flaming swords while balancing on a tightrope. so there.
>
I didn't... I was still in the UK at the time, and more or less avoid
politics anyway as I know what to expect. Nobody running for power gives a
damn about the people, it's all about winning. What I did see of GWB made
him seem like a frighteningly arrogant man, and also like a kid in a candy
store with the power. His evidently pro-religious / conservative slant
worries me, but I don't know how much damage it's possible for the people in
government to actually do these days.
US tv very quickly made its nature clear... really bad programming, bad
adverts. Yuck! I look very much forward to the show you plan to replace
it, sounds like my cup of tea.
> It really depends on who you get a room from, sometimes it can have the
> opposite effect.... Good luck ~ I had the strangest experiences applying
for
> rooms, the fun part is seeing how much people reveal themselves in the way
> in which they approach you (i.e. dominant or friendly, needy or
> greedy) - - - oi..... i've avoided leaving this area for a year because i
> can't handle going through the renting/application crap right now ~ seems
so
> invasive and yucky... *shudders at the memory*.....
>
>
I've sent of a mail saying that I'm interested in a nice room in a house
full of pleasant people, waiting to see if they're interested in me. Saw
another room yesterday, noticed first thing that the living room contained
nothing but a TV/DVD and a wooden kitchen chair. "Have you just moved in?"
I asked. "No, I've been here 6 months. I don't like... [gestures vaguely]
*things* around too much". OK...
Eris de Suzerain
"Brian Paul" <acidbondtorn@N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b1s4at8s7jcdqmsa4...@4ax.com...
i don't like that word <snip>, it sounds so fucking serious...how about <*>
or >*< or -*- can be universal symbols for <snip>, then no one has to say it
outloud and make that invisible sound that sounds just like fingers scraping
against a blackboard? don't answer that, it was rhetorical.
>
> Pulling people's heads out of their asses is like trying to de-louse a
> turgid donkey with a cattle prod - the sex is good but no one
> appreciates the artistry. Your point about knowledge is good, but
> mere understanding and application are not sufficient for progress --
> unless you include the ability to persuade someone to finance the
> application of said knowledge. Including that last point changes the
> potentiality of the progress from latent to active. However, one must
> still persuade others that it is in their best interests to consume
> the good or service being offered. TANSTAAFL at the time but gains
> eventually accrue to all, or most.
TANSTAAFL? (enlighten me ~ all I keep seeing is Tanzen Teufel). You can only
give gifts, you cannot determine how they are used. Period. The minute you
begin to say, look - see, this is the point right here... then you have
removed Free Will, and imposed your image of reality - which may or may not
be in the best interest of others. Or yourself... the best one to teach a of
a master of knowledge is generally the ignorant, as they can see past the
false constructs of pride and ego into the heart of the illusion. I must not
convince others of anything. If my knowledge gains me a life of deeper
insight, and I become that, then those who seek deeper insight will see what
roads I have taken to get where I did, and they will be able to shorten
their journey, or at least get just up ahead of me if I have cleared a bit
of the path... I don't pretend to know where the path leads, and therefore
cannot be responsible for pointing out the application of knowledge to those
who wish to have their asses wiped for them (they will die, not evolve,
disappear - in time... if they don't kill the rest of us first) - - -
"finance" in the Economy Witchcraft meaning of the word is something I want
to avoid as much as possible ~ don't want no money from corporations, don't
really even want no money, just want a house and some books and cool geeks
and freaks who love knowledge enough to invest their time in building a
space for it ~ including donating things, books, computer parts - time.
self-built... for the self-builders ~ not for those who need to be motivated
to understand why or how they need to learn, i'm done with them - they are
choking themselves and they will choke me if i try to talk to them.
(anything I am ranting here may or may not have anything to do with what you
have written, or I may have started out on the right foot and just lost
myself in tangential, self-referential rant fractals... sorry - - -)
> Vegetarianism is a perfect example of the above: the vegetarian diet
> is far more efficient than the omnivorous diet of most. However, the
> beef, chicken, pig and associated offal industries are far more
> effective at advertising. Indeed, the best advertising for produce
> occurs in produce industry magazines. Sure, the grocery chains
> advertise individual items quite effectively, but the overall push
> towards the inclusion of a broader offering of items for the
> vegetarian diet is being ignored in most locales. Why?
People who are susceptible to the messages of companies whose only admitted
interest in life is to make money and increase sales are pretty much
sheep... they need to wake up and learn to discern advertising from reality
or they will die New and Improved, 25% bigger, Act Now.
> As near as I can figure, most people in procurement and
> merchandising, due to the conservative nature of their trade, are not
> interested in taking a risk on an uncertain prospect. Take for
> instance this one product: Glenny's Soy Crisps. For those of you
> outside the New York area, these are soy chips similar to rice-cake
> chips but packed with protein and with the greasy potato chip after
> taste. A wonderful product, far superior to typical vending machine
> fare. I would have recommended that we put them in our stores in more
> affluent neighborhoods, but due to corporate restructuring, we had to
> send the decision on to our corporate headquarters, where the choice
> was obviously vetoed. Since my departure was imminent from that
> place, I could not exercise my powers of persuasion to influence the
> corporate folk. Thus, the use and application of knowledge must be
> accompanied by the powers of persuasion for progress to occur.
Do you want to be effective? Eliminate marketing, eliminate fucking
corporate headquarters, eliminate falsified reality in which products are
bought and sold rather than meals eaten. Buy bulk foods in the bins at the
health food or grocery store - make your own soy crisps, make your own
soap - make your own clothes. stop buying cars. stop buying plastic crap.
stop buying shit you don't need, shit you are not going to use. stop buying
things "Vacuum packed for freshness" altogether, I don't give a fleeing fuck
what it is, baby seal jerky or seaweed - Advertising has convinced some they
only have the choices available to them that the stores allow them - and it
simply isn't true. You have a mind, hands (i'm assuming on that one, sorry
if you don't) and you can make your own food, which is FAR MORE SUPERIOR to
ANYTHING in ANY VENDING MACHINE. wish i had my brain in my pocket, but I'm
fresh out of reason or I would take you out back for a spanking.
>
> Bush is a nice person, for the most part.
You say this based on a few soundbytes on Terrorvision? How do you know
this, because they spin him well in the media? He is a politician, fer Bob's
sake - he likes to electrocute people - who else gets away with that kind of
behavior? He is another flavor of king, all politicians are - and ownership
of Orifice is a farce and a sham... None shall be king over me, and I don't
give a fuck about it... and speaking of kings, no census taker knocked on my
door, where did they get all those numbers from?
> So, what do we have at the end of this day:
>
You can lead a 'ho to laughter but you can't make her sink.
Tooloose Lowtec
> "Tooloose Lowtec" <Tooloos...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:3AA16286...@netscape.net...
> > Eris de Suzerain wrote:
> >
> > > <snippage>
> > > >
> > >
> > > That's maybe the best and the worst part, I accidentally got into a
> career
> > > where mentally instability is overlooked (or valued), I work as a
> graphic
> > > artist/prepress technician/computer bitch
> >
> > Eris... I'm an escapee from that racket... and I'll *never* go back.
>
> Do an inmate a favor and tell me how you did it -
Uh, Eris... you don't wanna go the route I went... via the ER... I very
nearly ended up in a box.
But I'm married to a very forgiving woman... she & I sold off our place in the
city, and moved to cheaper digs until I could get back on my feet. Which I
eventually did. I'm a painter now... I don't make a lot of money, but I make
some... and my kids have had the dubious benefit of having me around instead
of day-care. Luckily my wife makes good money as a psych nurse (handy what?)
and puts up with my snarlyness and deeply distorted worldview (you can't say
weltanshauung around here... they'll fry you as an innellechewal or a German
porn spammer).
> i've seen many doors out
> but: i have no money (savings), car runs shitty, no real skills, no "real"
> education, no desire to live on the streets, no property i own so have to
> pay rent... i know how to simplify my life, i don't buy things - or at least
> minimally.... i don't know how to find a part time job that pays enough for
> me to pay my rent without forcing me to work 50 hours a week... i was
> looking for another job in the paper, and i almost shit myself when i saw an
> ad that read "mandatory 50 hour work weeks" "good attitude a must"
That's real cute... they musta been laughing their asses off when they wrote
that.
>
> ahahahahaaaaaahhhhh!! i just want a humble job, a humble life, to be left to
> my mind and my ruminations - i don't want to be owned by ANYONE. least of
> all the mind control trade, but really not by any of them - i keep looking
> and i can't see a master that i want to serve ~ i have a growing distaste
> for the intellectual slavery of economy, and i'm not quite bright enough to
> find my way around it..... arghFuck. sorry, sorry..... moving along....
Fuck Eris I dunno... I wish I could help... really. But stay away from the
plastic bags... I'm really enjoying having you here as a fellow inmate FWIW.
> <snippedy>
> <more snippage>
>
> And this is another reason i hate myself - because the "money" i spend to
> buy things (like internet access, fer instance) comes from wages earned for
> effectively enabling the machine... i almost collapsed the last time i was
> in a regular grocery store, i shit you not: walking down the aisle trying to
> find something and i passed an endcap with a big bright picture of two
> extremely happy, beautiful little girls eating crackers with fake cheese
> spread, the kind that come in the little packages with 4 crackers, some fake
> cheese and a little plastic stick. i remembered being a child, seeing as a
> child - and from a childs point of view, those kids are happy, happy is
> good, happy comes in packages, mom - can i have some happy, pleeeeease???
> Mom sees picture, sees unhappy kid - kids on picture look happy and healthy,
> mommy wants kids to be happy and healthy, how can mommy deny kids what makes
> other kids (the ones in the picture) happy? And it works, that's why it's
> there - and what it's selling is poison and obesity and cancer and ....
> well, it makes me sick... and then next thought after that was: if no one
> was there to make it, it wouldn't be here.... it's people just like me. it's
> me. i can't stand grocery stores, border on agoraphobic (sp), have no tv -
> hate it all, hate the malls, the stores, the plastic, the obscenity of
> manufactured reality.... and i don't know what to do about it, except to try
> not to destroy myself in figuring it out, and also try to not forget how
> ugly it is so i stay motivated....
I don't like to think about how really useless what I make is... and how it is
only rich people (never met one I liked or trusted) can afford my work. I'm
still a part of the machine... but I have the luxury of being able to hide
away in a studio in relative isolation to do it.
>
>
> but first i'm going to go kick some stuff...
Kick it (or them) hard Eris... I truly wish I had more useful answers.
--
Tooloose but still tied in
Brian Paul
<er...@bitchgoddess.com> wrote:
>
>"Brian Paul" <acidbondtorn@N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:b1s4at8s7jcdqmsa4...@4ax.com...
TANSTAAFL = "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."
Finance isn't a dirty word. At its heart, the concept of finance is
that you convince me something is worthwhile, and I expend my
resources on doing it. People generally expect something back, even
if it is the knowledge of your satisfaction gained at their expense.
Money is a wonderful force in that it unites people who otherwise
would be disinterested. Oftentimes people lose sight of what money
is, and the pursuit of money becomes their goal in life. I cannot
understand their sentiments; it's just money. Happiness is far more
important than money, since money is only a tool with which one can
hope to gain more happiness. And no, I do not mean money can buy
happiness. (I do not want to turn this into a treatise on my economic
views.)
For instance, I happened to enjoy what you have written in response to
what I posted. In fact, I enjoy it so much so that I am forgoing the
opportunity to pursue knowledge, to IM a woman with whom I might have
a chance, to eat a sensible dinner. I happen to believe that those
costs are less than the benefit of this exchange.
>People who are susceptible to the messages of companies whose only admitted
>interest in life is to make money and increase sales are pretty much
>sheep... they need to wake up and learn to discern advertising from reality
>or they will die New and Improved, 25% bigger, Act Now.
>
I sorely wished to include a point about my own feelings towards
advertising. The whole point of advertising should be to inform, to
provide the knowledge with which a consumer can make a decision. It
is not so. I was very happy when I took the sales figures to my boss
and said,"Look Boss, we haven't had an advertising department in nine
months and sales have hardly changed." I hate most advertising, for
it is content-free and so much corporate propaganda. The first time I
read vendor-to-retailer descriptions of a new product, (Fruitopia), a
shudder ran through me.
>Do you want to be effective? Eliminate marketing, eliminate fucking
>corporate headquarters, eliminate falsified reality in which products are
>bought and sold rather than meals eaten. Buy bulk foods in the bins at the
>health food or grocery store - make your own soy crisps, make your own
>soap - make your own clothes. stop buying cars. stop buying plastic crap.
>stop buying shit you don't need, shit you are not going to use. stop buying
>things "Vacuum packed for freshness" altogether, I don't give a fleeing fuck
>what it is, baby seal jerky or seaweed - Advertising has convinced some they
>only have the choices available to them that the stores allow them - and it
>simply isn't true. You have a mind, hands (i'm assuming on that one, sorry
>if you don't) and you can make your own food, which is FAR MORE SUPERIOR to
>ANYTHING in ANY VENDING MACHINE. wish i had my brain in my pocket, but I'm
>fresh out of reason or I would take you out back for a spanking.
A spanking? Not my style, but I might enjoy it.
I wish I could make all of those things -- I truly wish that I could,
because I hate relying on others. The problem is that I am not
Crusoe stuck on an island ere the arrival of Friday: it is far more
beneficial for everyone if I engage in trade, even if what I could
make is qualitatively superior to what I get in trade. Though I sneer
at the copse of classical economic theory, the idea of comparative
advantage is one with which I agree: people are in this together, and
the sooner they understand that....I cannot finish that thought; I do
not know the answer.
Indeed, I do not like what the stores offer, and if I get around to
it, then I will do something about it. I love produce because it is
the only part of a modern store where you can find bulk products for
sale. I hate the packaging with which the other parts are rife. I
know that I can find a better solution.
>
>>
>> Bush is a nice person, for the most part.
>You say this based on a few soundbytes on Terrorvision? How do you know
>this, because they spin him well in the media? He is a politician, fer Bob's
>sake - he likes to electrocute people - who else gets away with that kind of
>behavior? He is another flavor of king, all politicians are - and ownership
>of Orifice is a farce and a sham... None shall be king over me, and I don't
>give a fuck about it... and speaking of kings, no census taker knocked on my
>door, where did they get all those numbers from?
>
Check my IP, Bush is a hometown boy. I got to watch him for years as
a local businessman, and then as governor. I do not agree with him,
I certainly do not like for what he stands, and I most definitely
disagree with the death penalty, but he is a generally nice man. Not
one whom we would call a good person, but he has sufficient capacity
for cordial social interaction, which is more than I can manage on
most days.
I think the seeds of optimism have sprouted and, like kudzu vine, have
overgrown the last threads of my cynicism. I do not belong here,
especially since I am no longer depressed. Thank you for tolerating
me, but I will depart for more appropriate climes. ĄSalud!
Eris de Suzerain
Tooloose Lowtec wrote:
> Fuck Eris I dunno... I wish I could help... really. But stay away from the
> plastic bags... I'm really enjoying having you here as a fellow inmate FWIW.
>
For the acronymically illiterate: whatza FWIW?
>
> I don't like to think about how really useless what I make is... and how it is
> only rich people (never met one I liked or trusted) can afford my work. I'm
> still a part of the machine... but I have the luxury of being able to hide
> away in a studio in relative isolation to do it.
Most of us are part of it, even the best meaning of us - - - but i think
it's partly because if you step out of the machine there are threatening
things like "homelessness", and those handy new microwave from a
distance pain machines that the marines are testing, and asylums... i
don't hope to change that part, but at least it feels a little less like
insanity if some of the other inmates at least realize that's what we
are ~ what sux is that there are more inmates than wardens, but the
majority of inmates are fighting amongst themselves... (sorry, my head
is on sideways today, not even thinking in my regular regulated crooked
line, but i mean well) - ever read Kozinski's "Ship of Fools"? I believe
it is available online... I'm not much into bombing people, but he did
have some good points in his allegorical tale...
No, no more plastic bags, very undignified... and i'm too chickenshit to
fling myself off of anything... so i guess i'm stuck here... can i be
the prison bitch at least?
>
> --
> Tooloose but still tied in
"despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage" SP
eris
on underload
Tooloose Lowtec
> Tooloose Lowtec wrote:
>
> > Fuck Eris I dunno... I wish I could help... really. But stay away from the
> > plastic bags... I'm really enjoying having you here as a fellow inmate FWIW.
> >
> For the acronymically illiterate: whatza FWIW?
>
Hey Eris, I haven't been around and it looks like this didn't get a response so...
FWIW is For What It's Worth. I noticed Die use a related phrase: OTOH which is On
The Other Hand, FWIW.
--
Tooloose