available in HD only

[Au³+]

I have a DP-311 receiver with S-video connections and a traditional 4x3 TV,
which can't receive HD. I'm now noticing several channels advertised as
being available in HD only, which I can't receive. I have indeed tried them
when they're available as a free trial, and I can't receive anything. It
looks like this may be a growing thing, but I have no interest in HD and
have no plans to get a HD system. How much longer will I be able to receive
most basic dishnetwork programming with my system? Is there a cutoff date
when everything becomes HD only on dishnetwork?
--
Auric

[an...@att.net]

There is no Official Date, yet! So, you can just wait!

But like I said, back in 2005 Charlie on "Charlie Chat", stated the that
the SD would be here for a couple of years after the 2009 HD switch date.
Also, since the eastern arc is already HD only (MPEG4) and the move is to
change the western as soon as possible.

So, with that said I personal would say the date is around Feb 1, 2013. All
you will need to do is wait until Dish contact you and tell you what option
you have. Besides just waiting for Dish to tell you you can upgrade. Now,
at the movement you have two upgrade options:

1. Accept autopay with 2 year contact or pay $100 upgrade fee.
Price includes replacing your receiver and the Dish 500 with
1000.4 or may be the older 1000.2 (what every the installer has).

A. non-DVR Receivers: 211 (optional DVR: external HD), and the
dual receiver 222.

2. Buy a receiver and install it. The Dish 1000.x can be
optional for now but the number of HD channels will be
reduced without access to Sat 129.

Note: DP 311 can not decode MPEG4 programming.

Note: Your SD TV will work with the HD receivers, so if your wanting to
wait until your TV goes out, well you can. But Dish commitment to a
replacing all SD receivers with HD will happen as soon as they can make it
happen. At that time Dish's 311 and all others SD receivers will be obsolete.

[Patrick Martin]

I also am not going to be buying an HDTV in the near future, but I did
purchase the 211k to get access to the HD fare as many of those channels
are not available with the older receivers that are not HD. Anyway, the
pq is better on an HD channel.
I have the 211k (HD receiver) using Composite and Componet as m EDTV
does not have an HDMI connection, not being a HDTV. So far, I am getting
everything I sub to, including all of the regular HD in the AT250 and
the HD in the Platinum Pak. I don't sub to HBO or any of the Premiums,
so I have no idea if I would get those or if I could copy any movies
from HBO onto the hard drive or a DVD. But the reports I have been
getting seem to say that only the HDMI connections are affected, but
there are older receivers out there that people are losing channels too.
You might call Dish and see if someone can explain what is going on. The
reports are all over the board.You can stll update to an HD receiver
without buying an HDTV set as you can Composite outputs you can use and
that way you can receive the HD channels but in SD.

Patrick

[Char Jackson]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 10:35:18 -0700, mwd...@webtv.net (Patrick Martin)
wrote:

>I have the 211k (HD receiver) using Composite and Componet as m EDTV
>does not have an HDMI connection, not being a HDTV.

Using Composite *and* Component? Why would you do that?
Yank that Composite cable and throw it in a closet.

[Char Jackson]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 17:32:43 +0000 (UTC), an...@att.net wrote:

>There is no Official Date, yet! So, you can just wait!
>
>But like I said, back in 2005 Charlie on "Charlie Chat", stated the that
>the SD would be here for a couple of years after the 2009 HD switch date.

I wouldn't take those casual statements as anything other than an
informal chat. The realities of running a business will always trump
what you hear on a program like that.

>Also, since the eastern arc is already HD only (MPEG4) and the move is to
>change the western as soon as possible.

MPEG4 has nothing to do with HD versus SD. Are you sure the EA is HD
only? That's news to me.

[Lloyd E Parsons]

No, the EA is not HD only. It is MPEG4 only and it just so happens that
only the HD receivers do MPEG4. So if you are on the EA, you get all HD
equipment.

And there are indications that all MPEG4 is not the next step.

--
Lloyd

[Kristian M Zoerhoff]

Don't you need the audio pair from Composite to go with the Video of
component?

--

Kristian Zoerhoff
kristian...@gmail.com

[Lloyd E Parsons]

You would need audio if you use Composite or Component video since they
neither one provide that.

And you could use what you suggest for the poorest of the selections.
Either coaxial or optical digital audio outputs would be much better though.

--
Lloyd

[Patrick Martin]

>>Using Composite *and* Component? Why would you do that? Yank that
Composite cable and throw it in a closet.<<

I have an older MPEG2 FTA receiver that only has composite. So there
still is a use for it. But the 211k is fed by Component.

Patrick

[Patrick Martin]

>>Don't you need the audio pair from Composite to go with the Video of
component?<<

Yes, that is true, as the Component is only for the video.

Patrick

[Patrick Martin]

The problem I have is getting a switch that will switch everything. I
still have a mix of older and newer equipment.

Patrick

[Lloyd E Parsons]

I think they still make them, but last time I looked around, they were a
bit on the expensive side.

--
Lloyd

[Char Jackson]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 11:44:38 -0700, mwd...@webtv.net (Patrick Martin)
wrote:

>The problem I have is getting a switch that will switch everything. I
>still have a mix of older and newer equipment.

I had one from Walmart until a few years ago, but I gave it to
Goodwill because I no longer had a need for it. Mine had 4 inputs and
one output, and switched Composite, S-Video, and Component. Each set
of inputs and the single output also had a pair of stereo left/right
audio jacks. No HDMI, but I didn't need HDMI when I bought it. I think
it was about $17.

I'd be surprised if they aren't still available. Besides Walmart,
check Amazon, Monoprice, Newegg, and places like that.

[Char Jackson]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 11:42:07 -0700, mwd...@webtv.net (Patrick Martin)
wrote:

>>>Don't you need the audio pair from Composite to go with the Video of
>component?<<
>
>Yes, that is true, as the Component is only for the video.

As Lloyd said, neither Composite nor Component carries audio. You have
to make other arrangements for audio.

[Char Jackson]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 11:39:16 -0700, mwd...@webtv.net (Patrick Martin)
wrote:

>

Thanks, that makes more sense. I thought you had both types of
connections between the 211k and the TV. :)

[Char Jackson]

Thanks, that goes along with what I thought I knew.

>And there are indications that all MPEG4 is not the next step.

What's on the horizon after MPEG4?

[Lloyd E Parsons]

I don't know. But MPEG4 may not be the next thing that Dish goes all in
on. I think I read somewhere there was something else they were working
on that nearly all the receivers can get along with.

Going to MPEG4 has huge financial implications because of all that
legacy SD equipment out there that won't work with it.


--
Lloyd

[Patrick Martin]

>>I think they still make them, but last time I looked around, they were
a bit on the expensive side.<<

I have been told that by several, but I have never seen one that would
switch component, composite, S Video, etc.
According to some, HDMI will be the only choice come 5 years in the
future. Everything is going digital or already has.
Putting in copyguard protection, or anything else the programmers want
to include will be transparent, so the days of copying to DVD probably
will come to the end. Unless someone comes up with a way to break it.

Patrick

[Patrick Martin]

>>I had one from Walmart until a few years ago, but I gave it to
Goodwill because I no longer had a need for it. Mine had 4 inputs and
one output, and switched Composite, S-Video, and Component. Each set of
inputs and the single output also had a pair of stereo left/right audio
jacks. No HDMI, but I didn't need HDMI when I bought it. I think it was
about $17.
I'd be surprised if they aren't still available. Besides Walmart, check
Amazon, Monoprice, Newegg, and places like that.<<

I am stopping by Walmart in Portland on Thursday, so I will take a look.
I don't need HDMI anyway as my TV set is EDTV.

Patrick

[Char Jackson]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 14:48:43 -0700, mwd...@webtv.net (Patrick Martin)
wrote:

>>>I think they still make them, but last time I looked around, they were
>a bit on the expensive side.<<
>
>I have been told that by several, but I have never seen one that would
>switch component, composite, S Video, etc.

That describes perfectly the one that I had. It switched Component,
Composite, and S-Video, as well as stereo audio for each. I'll see if
I can find a link.

I don't see the exact model I had, but if you go to www.walmart.com
and search for "video switch" you'll get about a dozen good hits. See
if any of those meet your needs. If not, I'm sure Amazon has a much
bigger selection but I haven't checked. Come to think of it, I've also
seen the one I had for sale at Home Depot and Lowe's, but that was
awhile back.

> According to some, HDMI will be the only choice come 5 years in the
>future. Everything is going digital or already has.
>Putting in copyguard protection, or anything else the programmers want
>to include will be transparent, so the days of copying to DVD probably
>will come to the end. Unless someone comes up with a way to break it.

HDCP strippers have been around for a long time already. One product
line, not marketed as a stripper, that seems to have a high
satisfaction level is the HDFury line. There are multiple discussion
threads at www.avsforum.com.
www.hdfury.com User manuals are linked on their home page, down in the
lower right corner of the page.

The HDFury converts from HDMI to component, so of course the HDCP gets
dropped during the conversion since it isn't supported on the analog
side. In other news, the HDCP Master Key was leaked last year, so HDCP
is essentially on the honor system now.

[paultry]

Here is one:

http://www.svideo.com/comp4to1.html

[an...@att.net]

It time that you learn before speaking HD from Dish is MPEG4. Even the
SD channel are converted to HD MPEG4 in the eastern arc.

You are sounding like Amum, evey popst that you make!!!!

[Todd Allcock]

At 05 Oct 2011 00:20:31 +0000 an...@att.net wrote:
> It time that you learn before speaking HD from Dish is MPEG4. Even the
> SD channel are converted to HD MPEG4 in the eastern arc.

It's like the old logic puzzle:

All sandwiches are food, but not all food is sandwiches.

All of Dish's HD is MPEG4, but not all Dish MPEG4 is HD.

Upconverting the MPEG4 SD channels to HD would be a ridiculous waste of
bandwidth.

Dish's MP4 SD channels tend to look better than their MPEG2 SD channels
because MPEG4 is more bandwidth efficient, and retains more information
in the tiny little space Dish gives them, not because it's "HD".

[Patrick Martin]

>>That describes perfectly the one that I had. It switched Component,
Composite, and S-Video, as well as stereo audio for each. I'll see if I
can find a link.
I don't see the exact model I had, but if you go to www.walmart.com and
search for "video switch" you'll get about a dozen good hits. See if any
of those meet your needs. If not, I'm sure Amazon has a much bigger
selection but I haven't checked. Come to think of it, I've also seen the
one I had for sale at Home Depot and Lowe's, but that was awhile back.<<

Thanks. I'll also check out Amazon. I buy online from them often. Maybe
I can find one that will do it all for me. Much appreciated. A 4
position switch should do nicely.

Patrick

[Patrick Martin]

>>Here is one:
http://www.svideo.com/comp4to1.htm<<

Thanks. I'll check it out.

Patrick

[Patrick Martin]

>>HDCP strippers have been around for a long time already. One product
line, not marketed as a stripper, that seems to have a high satisfaction
level is the HDFury line. There are multiple discussion threads at
www.avsforum.com.
www.hdfury.com User manuals are linked on their home page, down in the
lower right corner of the page.
The HDFury converts from HDMI to component, so of course the HDCP gets
dropped during the conversion since it isn't supported on the analog
side. In other news, the HDCP Master Key was leaked last year, so HDCP
is essentially on the honor system now.<<

Thanks again. Then unless Dish blocks the Component and the Composite, I
should have no issues making a copy of movie on my DVD recorder, like I
have? If they do somehow block the analogs, then I would have to get
some ort of stripper. On the SatelliteGuys site some say they can no
longer get the HBO channels as they use older TVs that do not have HDMI,
so I wonder if the analogs could be electrically blocked from Dish's end
with HDCP?

Patrick

[Au³+]

Thanks for the info. I guess that means I won't have any satellite TV after
ca Feb 2013 because I have no plans to change anything. That makes it
analogous to over the air switching to digital, which I can no longer
receive. I'll just shut down/take down all my antennas, dishes, cables, and
call it a day. There's more to life than TV so maybe it's a good thing. I
don't need it. The birds will still chirp and there will still be lazy
summer nights.
--
Auric

<an...@att.net> wrote in message news:j6ffvq$el6$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[an...@att.net]

Wrong!!

Once the programmers or Dish converts a SD (MPEG2) program to HD
(MPEG4), it is true HD (MPEG4) by any definition except that it was not
created in HD. Note: As long as it has the 16 by 9 aspect ratio it is
called HD even if it is shown in letterbox or boxed type format.

Just like when TBS purchased or had some of its B&W movies colorized.
These newer version were reclassified by MPAA as color version of that
movie.

Also, I think the American people are smart enough to understand what I
say without explain every little deal! Because if they do not understand
they have the right to ask for more detail themselves.

But there are others, who disagree! They are foolish people that think you
have to explain every little detail. They want to control the information
that others will have, so the people who is asking for information will
make the wrong decision because of too much overwhelming information.

Its also seams like there are a few people like "Char Johnson" wanting
to stop people from having asking question.

Plus, most poster and reader do do want to spend their time writhing or
reading a Wiki size block of information about such topics.


Example of a quick answer is cabling: High to low quality. All HD
receivers can have all connection for primary tuner. For those with
a second SD accessible tuner (exception, 922), using HDMI or DVI on
second tuner requires upgrade converters.


HD signal only (primary tuner)

HDMI -- Single cable with both digital Video and Audio built in.

HD video signal: (primary tuner) Some converters are high price

DVI -- Used mostly for TV with DVI connector.
Requires HDMI to DVI converter on Dish receivers. Single
cable with digital Video only, Audio separate cable can
be digital (optical or coax) or Analog RCA cable.

Analog for some HD receivers primary tuner plus the old Dish 6000

Component -- Three video analog cable with either digital or
analog audio cable.


SD signal only: All Dish receivers for each accessible tuner

S-Video -- Two cables, one for S-Video and either digital or analog
audio cable.

Composite Video -- One video cable with either digital or analog
audio cable.

R-6 -- Antenna Cabling, using SD channel 3 or 4 on TV.


This is a lot easier to explain and understand than some other responses.

And if I added the info for the 922 second tuner it would get a little
complex and unless your looking into 922 that info is not really needed.
So, it better for another to ask for that info in a separate post.

[John]

an...@att.net wrote:
> Wrong!!
>
> Once the programmers or Dish converts a SD (MPEG2) program to HD
> (MPEG4), it is true HD (MPEG4) by any definition except that it was not
> created in HD. Note: As long as it has the 16 by 9 aspect ratio it is
> called HD even if it is shown in letterbox or boxed type format.
>

What I don't understand is why you continue to make a fool of yourself
by posting about things that you clearly have no technical knowledge about.

MPEG4 (and MPEG2 for that matter) are just compression schemes. They
have NOTHING to do with with HD or SD. A SD channels will STILL be SD
if it is compressed via MPEG4. On Dish's eastern arc some local
channels are SD MPEG4 while others (from the same market) are HD MPEG4.

And 16 by 9 has noting to do with HD either. There are lots of OTA SD
(sub)channels that are providing 16:9 programs. The PBS stations in my
area has lots of them.

John

[Lloyd E Parsons]

On 10/5/11 8:41 AM, an...@att.net wrote:
> Wrong!!
>
> Once the programmers or Dish converts a SD (MPEG2) program to HD
> (MPEG4), it is true HD (MPEG4) by any definition except that it was not
> created in HD. Note: As long as it has the 16 by 9 aspect ratio it is
> called HD even if it is shown in letterbox or boxed type format.

MPEG4 is NOT HD, it is nothing more or less than a compression
methodology. It makes better use of the available bandwidth because it
is a better compression method than MPEG2.

But it has nothing to do with HD signal except that both sat companies
use MPEG4 for all their HD now. DirecTV was using MPEG2 for some of
them up until fairly recently.

But feel free to keep posting your incorrect assertions, it is a free
country after all.

--
Lloyd

[W²]

<an...@att.net> wrote in message news:j6hmqj$l1m$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> Wrong!!
>
> Once the programmers or Dish converts a SD (MPEG2) program to HD
> (MPEG4), it is true HD (MPEG4) by any definition except that it was not
> created in HD. Note: As long as it has the 16 by 9 aspect ratio it is
> called HD even if it is shown in letterbox or boxed type format.

Programs in the 16:9 aspect ratio are commonly referred to as "widescreen"
and can be either Standard Definition or High Definition, depending on the
number of vertical lines in the picture.

W²

[an...@att.net]

You PROVED my point that a number of you do not even know who to
read or even the definition of SD or HD.

Better go back tyo school!!!

[aemeijers]

On 10/5/2011 6:23 AM, Auł+ wrote:
> Thanks for the info. I guess that means I won't have any satellite TV after
> ca Feb 2013 because I have no plans to change anything. That makes it
> analogous to over the air switching to digital, which I can no longer
> receive. I'll just shut down/take down all my antennas, dishes, cables, and
> call it a day. There's more to life than TV so maybe it's a good thing. I
> don't need it. The birds will still chirp and there will still be lazy
> summer nights.

The 'free' digital converter boxes are starting to show up at garage
sales and thrift stores for 5-10 bucks. People with reliable cable or
satt decide they aren't worth cluttering their rack, or they upgraded to
a modern TV. One of those, and some rabbit ears or a roof antenna, and
you can still get lots of TV, and not have to pay 50+ bucks a month for
the privilege of having your eyeballs served to advertisers.

If you are not patient enough to wait for a cheap DTV box, Wally World
usually has them for 50 bucks or so.



--
aem sends...

[Au³+]

"aemeijers" <aeme...@att.net> wrote in message
news:Iv2dnYrBJMyXYBHT...@giganews.com...

I have a digital converter box but it doesn't work. Before the conversion I
could get 3-4 channels. Now I can only get 1 channel, sometimes, and it's
not one of interest. What you say may apply in metro areas but not for me.
--
Auric

[an...@att.net]

I said that HD was MPEG4.

My definition comes from the Industry Standard aka IEEE/ISO Standard

Also, FCC had to approve any standard or changes, because of OTA signal.

SD definition (digital)
Aspect ratio : 4 by 3
Format : 480 (Analog 525)
Frame per second : 30
Color width : 24-bit
Coding format : MPEG2 standard (Industry adopted for SD in 1996)


HD definition (digital)
Aspect ratio : 16 by 9
Format : 1080 or 720 standard TV
: 600 or 160 cell phone/computers (new)
Frame per second : 25
Color width : 32-bit
Coding format : MPEG4 standard (Industry adopted for HD in 2004)


There are 100s of web site that may give a different picture. But the final
word will always be found using the IEEE/ISO standard.

[Char Jackson]

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 05:46:52 +0000 (UTC), an...@att.net wrote:

>I said that HD was MPEG4.

Actually, you said that MPEG4 was HD, which is wrong.

[Patrick Martin]

>>I have a digital converter box but it doesn't work. Before the
conversion I could get 3-4 channels. Now I can only get 1 channel,
sometimes, and it's not one of interest. What you say may apply in metro
areas but not for me.<<

I bought one when they had the coupon and it works fine, but I only have
it on a 5" analog TV in the bedroom I rarely use. The Toshiba TV, the
211k and my 9000 Pansat MPEG4 receivers all have built in digital
tuners. They get the two OTA digital translators here, plus the TV also
gets the 3 analogs. They work fine.

Patrick

[Au³+]

"Patrick Martin" <mwd...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:27487-4E8...@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net...

I also bought one of the digital converters from Walmart when it first came
out, but it only works if the signal is of a certain minimum strength. In my
case in a rural area the signals are all weak, fading in and out with
atmospheric conditions, the wind, the leaves on the trees, etc. I have an
outdoor full-size TV antenna on top of the house which worked acceptably
before the switch to digital. The picture wasn't very good but it was there,
at least sometimes, along with the sound. Now nothing, except one channel
which I can get sometimes (not of interest). I don't like digital or HD.
--
Auric

[Au³+]

test...