PTV Hack, can anyone do it?
SPM
of this unit? anyone got any ideas?
Barry
Otherwise, switch to DTV.
Bill Rosen
: Gee....I wonder how hard it can be to hack the PTV to unlock the potential
: of this unit? anyone got any ideas?
GO AWAY !!!
--
Bill R. - "The information beacon of the Ohio valley"
Sam Schlansky
>SPM (spm@mindless..com(removeadot)) wrote:
>: Gee....I wonder how hard it can be to hack the PTV to unlock the
>: potential of this unit? anyone got any ideas?
>
>
>GO AWAY !!!
Why?
It's despicable to charge $10/month to enable a feature on hardware I already
own. When I bought the Dishplayer, I was told "Personal TV features to be
included later", with no mention of extra charges. I have absolutely no moral
problems with what SPM is talking about. I feel I have the moral high ground.
In other words, if a hack comes out I will install it instantly. Not because
I'm looking to get something for free, but because I honestly feel I already
paid for it.
Sam
--
/| Sam Schlansky <sam[at]operation3d[dot]com>
/| I speak for myself only unless noted otherwise.
/| PGP Key ID: 0x63A9D707
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/| 3DHardware.net: Taking Your Machine To The Third Dimension!
/| Remove "deletethis" to email.
jbuff
s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam Schlansky) wrote:
> In other words, if a hack comes out I will install it
> instantly. Not because
> I'm looking to get something for free, but because I
> honestly feel I already
> paid for it.
And I suppose if you bought a car and the salesman didn't
tell you that you had to buy gasoline to run it, you'd feel
entitled to steal that too!
Of course not. Everybody knows that cars need gasoline.
Only the terminally naive would expect to drive a car
without buying gas.
Well, if you had asked a knowledgable sales person, asked
here, or even read the Dishplayer brochure, you would have
known that the PTV features came at a price.
Just because you didn't make any effort to find out the
price, does not make you entitled to get it for free.
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Sam Schlansky
<05febc30...@usw-ex0109-070.remarq.com>:
>In article <8EB52C2CCvi...@216.206.190.193>,
>s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam Schlansky) wrote:
>
>> In other words, if a hack comes out I will install it
>> instantly. Not because
>> I'm looking to get something for free, but because I
>> honestly feel I already
>> paid for it.
>
>And I suppose if you bought a car and the salesman didn't
>tell you that you had to buy gasoline to run it, you'd feel
>entitled to steal that too!
And I suppose if you bought a computer and the salesman didn't tell you that
you had to buy a monitor you'd feel entitled to steal that too!
And I suppose if you bought a telephone and the salesman didn't tell you that
you had to buy a wire you'd feel entitled to steal that too!
And I suppose if you bought a head and the salesman didn't tell you that you
had to buy a FUCKING BRAIN you'd feel entitled to steal that too!
Don't use nonsensical arguments.
It is common knowledge that you need a monitor to use a computer, a wire to
plug in your telephone, and a brain to think... but it is not common knowledge
that customers would be charged $10/month to use the PTV features on hardware
which is already bought and paid for.
>Of course not. Everybody knows that cars need gasoline.
>Only the terminally naive would expect to drive a car
>without buying gas.
And only the terminally braindead would use your argument to counter mine.
>Well, if you had asked a knowledgable sales person,
Why? I bought over the internet after consulting every webpage, review, and
usenet posting available. Supposedly the fact that they were going to charge
was mentioned in a "Dealer Charlie Chat" but... I'm not a dealer, I'm a
consumer. And this information was simply not available to consumers.
It was a bait and switch operation.
>asked here,
I did, in fact, hang out in the newsgroup for quite a while before purchasing
my 7100. Nobody mentioned that the PTV features would cost extra, and the E*
webpage didn't mention it either. They just said something like "...and in a
couple of months you can record TV too!"
>or even read the Dishplayer brochure, you would have
>known that the PTV features came at a price.
I specifically, SPECIFICALLY, did read the brochure. Extra costs were not
mentioned.
>Just because you didn't make any effort to find out the
>price, does not make you entitled to get it for free.
But, I did make the effort-- there was no price mentioned anywhere.
Like I said, I'm not looking to get something for free. I'm looking to get what
I already paid for. The very instant a PTV hack is released, I will be
installing it.
jbuff
> I specifically, SPECIFICALLY, did read the brochure.
> Extra costs were not
> mentioned.
I've got one in front of me, the Document ID is
RET3DLIT0799.SH167, and it says
"Dishplayer PTV service will cost only $5.00 per month when
you subscribe to WebTV Plus service, or $9.95 per month
without WebTV service."
Which document do you have?
Sam Schlansky
<27cfe325...@usw-ex0110-073.remarq.com>:
>In article <8EB55363Cvi...@216.206.190.193>,
>> I specifically, SPECIFICALLY, did read the brochure.
>> Extra costs were not
>> mentioned.
>
>I've got one in front of me, the Document ID is
>RET3DLIT0799.SH167, and it says
>
>"Dishplayer PTV service will cost only $5.00 per month when
>you subscribe to WebTV Plus service, or $9.95 per month
>without WebTV service."
>
>Which document do you have?
The one that was available when the Dishplayer was released. You have
a later revision.
jbuff
When did you buy your Dishplayer?
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Sam Schlansky
<038c8397...@usw-ex0109-070.remarq.com>:
>This one was printed in July of 99.
>
>When did you buy your Dishplayer?
A week or two after it was released. I got it for $149, as my second receiver.
There was no mention of extra cost for personal TV anywhere.
Sam
>In article <8EB5A50A1vi...@216.206.190.193>,
>s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam Schlansky) wrote:
>> jbuffN...@pacific.net.invalid (jbuff) wrote in
>> <27cfe325...@usw-ex0110-073.remarq.com>:
>> >In article <8EB55363Cvi...@216.206.190.193>,
>> >> I specifically, SPECIFICALLY, did read the brochure.
>> >> Extra costs were not
>> >> mentioned.
>> >
>> >I've got one in front of me, the Document ID is
>> >RET3DLIT0799.SH167, and it says
>> >
>> >"Dishplayer PTV service will cost only $5.00 per month when
>> >you subscribe to WebTV Plus service, or $9.95 per
>> month without WebTV service."
>> >
>> >Which document do you have?
>> The one that was available when the Dishplayer was released. You have
>> a later revision.
--
jbuff
When was the brochure you read printed?
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Sam Schlansky
<17e295d2...@usw-ex0109-069.remarq.com>:
>I don't remember when that was. Can you give me a month?
>When was the brochure you read printed?
Huh?
Beats the hell out of me, it's not like I saved it.
Sam
David J. P. Long
>bro...@iglou.com (Bill Rosen) wrote in <3874...@news.iglou.com>:
>
>>SPM (spm@mindless..com(removeadot)) wrote:
>>: Gee....I wonder how hard it can be to hack the PTV to unlock the
>>: potential of this unit? anyone got any ideas?
>>
>>
>>GO AWAY !!!
>
>Why?
>
>It's despicable to charge $10/month to enable a feature on hardware I already
>own. When I bought the Dishplayer, I was told "Personal TV features to be
Oh really? Tell me... Do you expect to do, say, 3-D animation
redering a-la Bug's Life and Toy Story for free? After all, you have
the hardware for it...
>included later", with no mention of extra charges. I have absolutely no moral
>problems with what SPM is talking about. I feel I have the moral high ground.
They were really quite ambiguous in almost all the initial press
releases.
>In other words, if a hack comes out I will install it instantly. Not because
>I'm looking to get something for free, but because I honestly feel I already
>paid for it.
Umm.. They paid you quite a sum.. E* has estimates that they
subsidize each and every new subscriber to the tune of $300, meaning
that $149 Dishplayer SHOULD have cost you $449..
That being said, I thought $10/mo was *outrageous* for something that
had the functionality of one REALLY GOOD tape..
...now that people are installing 40GB Maxtors in their Dishplayers
and getting something like 30 hours of recording time, I'm considering
it...
+----/|-------------------------------------+-------------------+
| | | djl...@wildwizards.net \ |
| / | djl...@msn.com \ |
| ( ) http://www.wildwizards.net \ ICQ# 8976662 |
+--`--' ----------------------------------------+---------------+
Sam Schlansky
<38781d91...@news.mv.com>:
>s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam Schlansky) wrote:
>
>>bro...@iglou.com (Bill Rosen) wrote in <3874...@news.iglou.com>:
>>
>>>SPM (spm@mindless..com(removeadot)) wrote:
>>>: Gee....I wonder how hard it can be to hack the PTV to unlock
>>>: the potential of this unit? anyone got any ideas?
>>>
>>>GO AWAY !!!
>>
>>Why?
>>
>>It's despicable to charge $10/month to enable a feature on
>>hardware I already own. When I bought the Dishplayer, I was told
>>"Personal TV features to be
>
>Oh really? Tell me... Do you expect to do, say, 3-D animation
>redering a-la Bug's Life and Toy Story for free? After all, you
>have the hardware for it...
No. But then again, I never told people I would, either.
>>included later", with no mention of extra charges. I have
>>absolutely no moral problems with what SPM is talking about. I
>>feel I have the moral high ground.
>
>They were really quite ambiguous in almost all the initial press
>releases.
They weren't ambiguous, David. They did not mention extra charges, period.
>>In other words, if a hack comes out I will install it instantly.
>>Not because I'm looking to get something for free, but because I
>>honestly feel I already paid for it.
>
>Umm.. They paid you quite a sum.. E* has estimates that they
>subsidize each and every new subscriber to the tune of $300,
>meaning that $149 Dishplayer SHOULD have cost you $449..
Umm.... so what? How does that affect ME?
1) I bought a piece of hardware under the impression that it would include the
PTV features sometime in the future.
2) When they released the PTV features they decided to charge $10/month.
Those are the facts. Period.
>That being said, I thought $10/mo was *outrageous* for something
>that had the functionality of one REALLY GOOD tape..
>
>...now that people are installing 40GB Maxtors in their
>Dishplayers and getting something like 30 hours of recording time,
>I'm considering it...
Don't forget that you have to pay $300-some dollars for that 40GB drive, too.
If I did a *lot* of timeshifting, I'd consider it too. But... for $420
($10/month plus $300 for the Maxtor 40GB) I can buy a *lot* of very high
quality VHS tapes which would act as essentially permanent storage. Sure, I
lose out on the cool factor... but I hate feeling like a sucker.
Sam
jco...@my-deja.com
has a hard drive and you want to access it. You must understand that
all these hardwares already have the capability to receive and playback
information. The software is what prevents you from receiving "FREE"
PPV. In answer to your question...you must be able to access your
harddrive via a different signal than the one provided by your remote.
You must purchase a remote control that will inpute a signal that will
wake-up the functions that you need for your PTV, the OneforAll remote
8080 or 8090 will do this for you! Your primary set-up code will be
1005.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Sam Schlansky
>Dear Sam, I understand where your thoughts are. You bought a unit, it
>has a hard drive and you want to access it. You must understand
>that all these hardwares already have the capability to receive
>and playback information. The software is what prevents you from
>receiving "FREE" PPV. In answer to your question...you must be
>able to access your harddrive via a different signal than the one
>provided by your remote. You must purchase a remote control that
>will inpute a signal that will wake-up the functions that you need
>for your PTV, the OneforAll remote 8080 or 8090 will do this for
>you! Your primary set-up code will be 1005.
Really?
Does that really work? My impression was that PTV would work with your OLD
remote too, but E* needed to turn it on from their end... is it just a matter
of a different remote to change it over?
jbuff
BTW, you may have got a raw deal. But by the time I heard
about PTV, the $10 /mo charge was well established.
Sometime around August I think.
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David J. P. Long
>They weren't ambiguous, David. They did not mention extra charges, period.
>
>
>1) I bought a piece of hardware under the impression that it would include the
>PTV features sometime in the future.
You could NOT have bought the Dishplayer until a time *after* they
made it clear that the PTV functions were going to cost money.
You could have *planned* on it before - I remember the original press
release (I'll see if I can find it since it'll have a date on it)
didn't mention the extra charges, but it was also considerably in
advance of availability.
>2) When they released the PTV features they decided to charge $10/month.
>
>Those are the facts. Period.
They decided to charge the $10 well before they released the PTV
software.
>Don't forget that you have to pay $300-some dollars for that 40GB drive, too.
$250 at buy.com
>If I did a *lot* of timeshifting, I'd consider it too. But... for $420
>($10/month plus $300 for the Maxtor 40GB) I can buy a *lot* of very high
>quality VHS tapes which would act as essentially permanent storage. Sure, I
>lose out on the cool factor... but I hate feeling like a sucker.
Quite frankly, I only consider it so that I no longer get the phone
call at work "Hon, which tape is last week's Dre Carey Show on?"
:-)
ElecConnec
s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam Schlansky) writes:
>Huh?
>
>Beats the hell out of me, it's not like I saved it.
Then it's also "not like" you remember it clearly. Instead, you remember what
you THOUGH it said.
I DID save mine: these were distributed in a VERY limited number upon
introduction of the unit, and were replaced a month or two later because the
original brochure (like the original owner's manual) refered to the unit as a
"Model 7100" instead of as a "DISHPlayer".
To quote: "Future capabilities may include hours of digital TV recording and TV
instant replay."
That's ALL the brochure even says about the subject. No mention of whether it
will ever happen, what the cost would be or even if it was a DISH or WebTV
function!
You need a better argument than THAT to support your position IMHO.
One could argue that the DP eventually received enhanced features for those who
cough up $10/month. It didn't for those who don't.
I personally don't like it either, but the unit still does today what it did
when you bought it. In fact, it works BETTER today, since they removed the
self-imposed 30 minute limit on TV Pause even for non-PTV subs.
--
Todd Allcock, DISH/DirecTV Dealer
Electronic Connection, Lee's Summit, MO
"Under the Usenet Home Reader's Act (UHRA), you may not read this post
if another poster in your Grade B Contour has the same opinion!"
Sam Schlansky
>s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam Schlansky) wrote:
>
>>They weren't ambiguous, David. They did not mention extra
>>charges, period.
>>
>>1) I bought a piece of hardware under the impression that it
>>would include the PTV features sometime in the future.
>
>You could NOT have bought the Dishplayer until a time *after* they
>made it clear that the PTV functions were going to cost money.
>
>You could have *planned* on it before - I remember the original
>press release (I'll see if I can find it since it'll have a date
>on it) didn't mention the extra charges, but it was also
>considerably in advance of availability.
David... you're wrong. You're just, flat-out, wrong. When I bought my
Dishplayer there was no mention of extra charges for PTV. I looked on the E*
website, I looked on this newsgroup, and I read the press releases. At the time
I purchased by Dishplayer, the charges simply were not mentioned at all.
In fact, I remember when they first announced they were going to charge for
them. There were a couple of threads on this very newsgroup bitching about it.
I had already owned my Dishplayer for some time, and I was upset as well.
I'm sorry man, but you are INCORRECT.
>>2) When they released the PTV features they decided to charge
>>$10/month.
>>
>>Those are the facts. Period.
>
>They decided to charge the $10 well before they released the PTV
>software.
Yes, that's true. They did list the charges well before the software came out,
I misspoke. However, they listed the charges well AFTER I had bought my
DIshplayer.
Here is the first press release mentioning the Dishplayer, saying that it is
due to be released in May.
http://www.dishnetwork.com/profile/press/press/press185.htm
Here is the earliest post I could find (with only 2 minutes of looking) from
someone saying they actually bought their Dishplayer. It is dated June 1st,
1999.
http://x30.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=484679161&search=thread&CONTEXT=
947545149.1330642962&HIT_CONTEXT=947545111.1330118687&HIT_NUM=23&hitnum=2
Here is my post responding to the very first press release mentioning charges,
on july 20th 1999:
http://x37.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=503343874&CONTEXT=
947544560.1230176327&hitnum=2
I dare you to dispute this further. These are the facts.
>>Don't forget that you have to pay $300-some dollars for that 40GB
>>drive, too.
>
>$250 at buy.com
Yes, you got me there, I was off by fifty bucks!
>>If I did a *lot* of timeshifting, I'd consider it too. But... for
>>$420 ($10/month plus $300 for the Maxtor 40GB) I can buy a *lot*
>>of very high quality VHS tapes which would act as essentially
>>permanent storage. Sure, I lose out on the cool factor... but I
>>hate feeling like a sucker.
>
>Quite frankly, I only consider it so that I no longer get the
>phone call at work "Hon, which tape is last week's Dre Carey Show
>on?"
You can buy a lot of labels and pens for $420 too. :)
Sam Schlansky
<20000110165534...@nso-ci.aol.com>:
>In article <8EB6414Cvi...@216.206.190.193>,
>s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam Schlansky) writes:
>
>>Huh?
>>
>>Beats the hell out of me, it's not like I saved it.
>
>Then it's also "not like" you remember it clearly. Instead, you
>remember what you THOUGH it said.
>
>I DID save mine: these were distributed in a VERY limited number
>upon introduction of the unit, and were replaced a month or two
>later because the original brochure (like the original owner's
>manual) refered to the unit as a "Model 7100" instead of as a
>"DISHPlayer".
>
>To quote: "Future capabilities may include hours of digital TV
>recording and TV instant replay."
Hmm... that very well could be it. All I remember, honestly, is that they
didn't say it would cost anything. They didn't even hint that it would cost
anything.
>That's ALL the brochure even says about the subject. No mention
>of whether it will ever happen, what the cost would be or even if
>it was a DISH or WebTV function!
>
>You need a better argument than THAT to support your position
>IMHO.
>
>One could argue that the DP eventually received enhanced features
>for those who cough up $10/month. It didn't for those who don't.
Well, one could argue that. Personally, I see it differently-- I see it as a
bait and switch. They say the unit "may" include these features, but then they
charge for them.... nah... that just isn't kosher, if you ask me, Todd.
>I personally don't like it either, but the unit still does today
>what it did when you bought it. In fact, it works BETTER today,
>since they removed the self-imposed 30 minute limit on TV Pause
>even for non-PTV subs.
That's true, and I appreciate it-- I've used the 30+ minute pause already. But
honestly I still feel ill used.
Howard Farnsworth
and features and noware does it talk money.
rjsmith
http://www.dishnetwork.com/profile/press/press/press185.htm, last
sentence in the second paragraph:
"The DVR feature is planned to be available before the end of 1999 as a
WebTV Plus and EchoStar service upgrade by satellite."
A "service upgrade" doesn't sound like something that's planned to be
given away. When I buy anything, software or whatever, I don't expect
the next available upgrade to be free unless they explicitely say it
will be free.
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MARGET MandM
Before my dishplayer I had a webtv plus for two years. All service
upgrades from webtv have been free. There have been numerous upgrades
during this time. Why wouldn't we think an upcoming service upgrade
wouldn't be free?
One of the selling points of webtv has always been "free service
upgrades." If PTV was to have a monthly fee than it should have been
called something other than "automatic service upgrade" available later
this year (99).
BobaBird
Date: Tue, 11 January 2000 03:33 PM EST
>Quoting from that press release ...
>
>"The DVR feature is planned to be available before the end of 1999 as a
>WebTV Plus and EchoStar service upgrade by satellite."
>
>A "service upgrade" doesn't sound like something that's planned to be
>given away.
Could go either way, however Dish has set a precedent with its customers by
doing exactly that over the years. Some of the service upgrades have been
event timers, CD channel song titles, translucent info screen, All Subscribed
favorites list, and Dolby Digital.
Admittedly, some of these services require owning the appropriate equipment,
but once you do you've always gotten all the functions.
I bought my 7100 knowing it wasn't yet fully functional, and I am mostly happy
with it even w/o PTV. I knew that someday I would be able to record about 4
hours on it. Certainly not enough to be of practical use as a primary
recorder, but sufficient for my busier TV nights so I wouldn't have to rely on
someone at home to swap blank tapes for me. I find $9.99/mo outrageous to use
my own equipment, and excessive for something that has just enough capacity to
provide a sampling of the feature.
>When I buy anything, software or whatever, I don't expect
>the next available upgrade to be free unless they explicitly say it
>will be free.
In this case, the opposite is true. Until they announced a price, Dish was at
best ambiguous about whether there would even *be* a price. I can't find the
sales brochure, but it said something like the function would be added later.
And as I mentioned in the "...get a clue..." thread, a Charlie Chat caller
asked if there would be a 1-time upgrade or $10/mo fee for PTV. The caller was
told not to listen to rumors. In essence, a denial that they planned to
charge. So what were people supposed to expect?
Charles, Dish viewer since 12/96
Sam Schlansky
<136f266c...@usw-ex0102-011.remarq.com>:
>Quoting from that press release at
>http://www.dishnetwork.com/profile/press/press/press185.htm, last
>sentence in the second paragraph:
>
>"The DVR feature is planned to be available before the end of 1999
>as a WebTV Plus and EchoStar service upgrade by satellite."
>
>A "service upgrade" doesn't sound like something that's planned to
>be given away. When I buy anything, software or whatever, I don't
>expect the next available upgrade to be free unless they
>explicitely say it will be free.
Please. You're grasping at straws here bud.
In the past, E* has NEVER charged for similar "service upgrades".
Service upgrades like music song titles, transparent menus, DD
movies, extra channels included in Top100, etc. They have set a
precedent of NOT charging for extra features. Until now, anyway.
I expect to pay for a major upgrade to, say, Microsoft Office, true.
I don't expect to pay for a major upgrade to, say, my VCR. Do you get
it now? Is that clear enough for you?
"A service upgrade" most explicitely DOES sound like it will be free,
given the context and the precedents set by E* in the past. At the
very worst, it in no way implies that it wouldn't be.
To suggest otherwise implies that you have some sort of agenda, and
quite frankly I don't appreciate an E* sock puppet's input in a
newsgroup intended to be users helping users.
If you want advertisements, put 'em on TV, not Usenet. Charlie's hand
looks to be up your ass making your mouth move. Entertaining as that
may be, it doesn't belong here.
Bill H.
Marc. Kaplan
1. For no monthly charge you can record whatever you like, provided you're
willing
to enter the channels, times, etc, just like a plain jane VCR.
2. For $10/month, you get the Tivo program guide service which is supposed to
list all broadcast, cable and DBS channels - works via a phone line.
3. For $199 one time fee, you get a "lifetime" subscription to the Tivo program
guide.
The problem with DishPlayer PTV is that you only have option 2, which
I think is ridiculous, since the basic Dishly monthly fee includes an "EPG".
Personally I think Dish should offer something like this
X. For a onetime $199 we'll sell you a hard-drive upgrade kit with 30 Gigs (or
more) and the
software to make recording at least as easy as using TIVO.
So what am I doing? I use a plain jain VCR and a Dish 4722 with IR Blaster,
which works
pretty darned well. I'll wait a while for someone to offer a "reasonably
priced" DVD-recorder
machine to replace my bad old VCR.
Gary
>Just went to www.tivo.com to see what that system offers.
>
>1. For no monthly charge you can record whatever you like, provided you're
>willing
>to enter the channels, times, etc, just like a plain jane VCR.
That right there is worth it over the Dishplayer. I have been pondering
getting one, but I might wait a little while just to see if the price drops a
bit.
The ONLY thing the dishplayer has over tivo is the HD mod. That's a loophole
Dish forgot about - and believe me, they'll close it the first chance they can
with sofware!
Apparantly with Tivo, you can't upgrade the HD. I don't have specifics as to
why, but that's what I'm reading.
>I'll wait a while for someone to offer a "reasonably
>priced" DVD-recorder
>machine to replace my bad old VCR.
Well, I think I'd rather have the HD record option because it is capable of
holding MUCH more than a DVD. DVD's, at best, can only hold 17GB. That's
using both sides.
ElecConnec
s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam Schlansky) writes:
>Well, one could argue that. Personally, I see it differently-- I see it as a
>bait and switch. They say the unit "may" include these features, but then
>they
>charge for them.... nah... that just isn't kosher, if you ask me, Todd.
I agree to a point. I would prefer to see a one-time charge. I don't mind
paying a reasonable one-time fee for the upgrade software, but I don't want to
"rent it" forever.
I'm not picking on your hatred if the charge, I'm just picking on the seemingly
"common belief" that DISH somewhere stated it would be free then renegged. I
think many of us (myself included) read more into the "future upgrades" stuff
in the beginning. I remember clearly the first Retailer Chat after the DP's
introduction warning us there "might be some sort of charge" for the extra
features and not to promise too much to customers. (Of course I'd already seen
the unit WITH prototype PTV features at CES 5 months before and didn't hear any
words about "charges" then and assumed there wouldn't be any!)
>That's true, and I appreciate it-- I've used the 30+ minute pause already.
>But honestly I still feel ill used.
I understand that. The $9.95 seems a bit punitive to me as well, since all you
really "get" for it (beyond the software) is the news channel on 201. But
apparently it's working well for DISH.
I hope Mr. Gates doesn't get ideas from this or we'll all be renting the next
version of Windows! ($10/month or just $5 if you already subscribe to MSN!)
;-)
Bob Mergner
can opt to not have with PTV. I might be tempted by that (if it were
cheaper). Right now, they can point to the News Service and say, "Hey look
at the value there!", but personally, I'm not at all interested in there
news service (get enough on TV, Local Paper and Internet). I only want PTV
and 9.95 per month is way too much for that. This is like Gates making
everybody pay $19.95 per month for MSN just to get their copy of Explorer to
work, whether you already have an ISP or not.
(sorry to jump back into this argument, and I'm sure there will be plenty of
people who will tell me, "It's fair", "It's what all the others are
charging", blah, blah, blah)
Bob
ElecConnec <elecc...@aol.comyadayada> wrote in message
news:20000113150400...@nso-cf.aol.com...
Mark Sutton
> I hope Mr. Gates doesn't get ideas from this or we'll all be renting the next
> version of Windows! ($10/month or just $5 if you already subscribe to MSN!)
> ;-)
>
There have been rumors floating around since long before the DishPlayer
was ever announced that MicroSoft has many times contemplated
doing exactly that!
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Mark Sutton | mailto:mar...@spectra-one.com |
| "The Fish Man" | Spectra One |
| New Orleans, Louisiana | http://www.spectra-one.com/ |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ElecConnec
<nat...@helicon.net> writes:
>I just finished looking at the echo web site on the dishplayer. Overview
>and features and noware does it talk money.
Yeah, it also says it can pick up 500 channels of programming and doesn't
mention money there either! ;-)
ElecConnec
<rmer...@nojunkmail.hworks.com> writes:
>(sorry to jump back into this argument, and I'm sure there will be plenty of
>people who will tell me, "It's fair", "It's what all the others are
>charging", blah, blah, blah)
No, I'm pretty much with you. The "news" is a simple intangible "Value-Add"
designed to justify the price. They use the $9.99 example as "comperable" to
TiVo, but that's unfair because that pays for TiVo's EPG, which is part of DISH
service.
Now if DISH wants to throw in a 30-day EPG along with the "news" for $10/month
I'll re-visit the issue!
In summary: I think DISH can charge whatever the market will bear, and all of
us are free to buy or not buy it. IMHO, however, they aren't delivering $10
worth of VALUE yet.
Gordon Wemp
All I have to say on the subject is that when you buy something it
should be for what it can do NOW!. Anything else is as they say "Vaporware".
Buyer beware.
I bought a neat little driver unit made by Fisher Price AND Compag. They
were going to release more games for it later on. Never did. Just the one
original game. Should I sue them?
Ryan Willobee
Ryan
Gordon Wemp
But they didn't. I suppose that would be a better alternative to what I
have now for the game console...NONE!
Hey!. I wish it was free!. But it's not. I'm saying that you can't buy
something on future speculations. Almost every technological marvel that I
have participated in becomes extinct before it lives up to it's
expectations.
All the info you site is ambiguous. Even though you may have a
legitamate gripe, that's all it will be.
Maybe if you took all this energy and fired it at Dish, you could get
them to give up their revenue and give us a digital recorder with 7 day epg
and games for $149.00. I doubt it though.
Good luck
Richard Grogan-Crane
connected to the interent is not that much different from Set top box/PTV connected
to dishnetwork.