Old coax cable in house
SF-East Bay'r
NFL and Center Ice packages but have never used them as my only tv provider.
My house has coax strung throughout the house to all of the rroms, but it is
18 year old coax. My neighbor had Directv installed (he has the same house,
same age) and the Directv people said they couldn't use the installed coax
because it wouldn't work well with the current high-def service. They
restrung his house, replacing the 18 year old coax. Was that really
necessary or did they just want some more installtion money?
Thanks for your help.
Tom
Don T
was RG6 the newer RG6 allows a higher bandpass than the older stuff. RG6 has
a larger center conductor than does RG59 and thus a lower resistance to the
frequencies used in today's High Definition signals. Plus the LNB on the
dish is sent a voltage and 22KHz signal to correctly "polarize" the LNB for
a particular set of frequencies and there is too much loss of the signal
voltage on the smaller conductor of RG59.
http://www.abccables.com/info-rg59-vs-rg6.html
On a new install the DirecTV folks will provide the cables and run them as
part of the install. No extra charge unless they have to crawl on their
bellies like a reptile just to get the cabling where you need it. If you are
upgrading from SD to HD they treat it like a completely new install and
claim that the install is free. How did your neighbor end up paying?
--
Don Thompson
Stolen from Dan: "Just thinking, besides, I watched 2 dogs mating once,
and that makes me an expert. "
There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance.
~Goethe
It is a worthy thing to fight for one's freedom;
it is another sight finer to fight for another man's.
~Mark Twain
"SF-East Bay'r" <not_...@notreal.net> wrote in message
news:uVktl.8473$jZ1....@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
Timothy Daniels
The usual coaxial cable is RG6QS. (RG6 is fatter than RG59, meaning
it has more distance between the braid and center conductor, and it has
a non-simple combination of foil and braid shielding). These features
allow less signal attenuation per linear foot of cable and less signal
leakage out to and in from the environment. (Signal leakage out is of
concern to the FCC.) Both attenuation and leakage increase with
frequency, and the signals coming from the dish are higher in frequency
than most over-the-air signals and higher than cable TV signals. Furthermore,
higher frequency signals are more sensitive to changes in cable impedance
along the cable, and sudden changes induce reflections within the cable -
which are bad. Things that cause changes in impedance are pinching of
the sheath, which compresses the plastic foam between the inner and outer
conductors, too-tight bending of the cable, and old fashioned crimped
connectors (i.e. not compression-fit connectors). Since old coaxial cable
was installed probably by electricians, the cable was most likely stapled
to wall studs with a hammer and tightly bent around corners - just as an
electrician would do with power wiring. Furthermore, it probably doesn't
have good shielding since there wasn't much concern about TV signals
getting in and out of cables back when it was installed.
In short, the installers are being conservative and not trusting old
cable and old cable installation techniques. They also have a duty to
the FCC, another reason to play it safe. If you can afford to have modern
cable installed, I'd say go for it. You can probably use the old coaxial
for over-the-air digital TV from a roof-top antenna or maybe an
Ethernet-over-coaxial household data network.
*TimDaniels*
Bill
Steve Stone
> Was that really necessary or did they just want some more
> installtion money?
>
It depends.
RG6 is better than RG59.
You probably have RG59.
The age of the coax is less of a factor when the coax is indoors.
I have seen really good RG59 and I have seen poor quality RG59.
My Dad and I wired my house with a good quality RG59 in 1988.
The in wall indoor runs have no trouble with the H20 and H21receivers.
Greywolf
to be common and then came larger RG6 cabling with a copper coated steel
center wire. All will work for shorter distances. RG59 has a higher signal
loss rate, especially for higher frequencies. Standard cableTV signals run
from about 54-806MHz. Standard DirecTV signals run from 950 to 1450MHz on
the Ku band. HD DirecTV signals run up to 2150MHz on the newer Ka band. Up
until recently, HD required access to five satellite positions, meaning the
receivers had to power 5LNBs on the dish as well as Ka band frequency
converters. The increased power requirement necessitated the 100% copper
standard although the copper coated steel RG6 worked okay to about 75ft or
so. Quad shielding is really a cableTV standard with cable companies pushing
signals through the cable that can interfere with over the air antenna
signals which cover the same frequencies. DirecTV signals from the dish
don't put out much power and the great majority of channels are outside the
OTA band so the extra expense and difficulty to work with contra-indicate
use of QS for DirecTV cables.
Pat
SF-East Bay'r
expecting. Looks like I should get them replaced. Hopefully, as one of you
suggested, it is part of the free installation.
Thanks again.
Tom
"SF-East Bay'r" <not_...@notreal.net> wrote in message
news:uVktl.8473$jZ1....@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
GMAN
Its the gold standard IMHO.
Timothy Daniels
> "Greywolf" wrote:
>>[...] the extra expense and difficulty to work with contra-indicate
>>use of QS for DirecTV cables.
>>
I'd imagine the foil shielding might be a pain if you're
using hex crimp (or other inappropriate) connectors.
But if you're using the proper attachment tool with
compression-fit connectors, like the professionals use,
it's not at all a problem. Other than that, the larger bend
radius might make for unsightly turns around corners and
jumpers that just don't drop to the floor as easily as the
thinner RG59 cable does. I, personally, like the serious
"professional" look of RG6QS. If you really want "difficult
to work with", try optical cable.
*TimDaniels*
Russ
I have two HD receivers in my house. One is close to the switch and I
was able to replace the RG59 with RG6. The other is a distance away
and difficult for me to replace. I haven't done it, yet.
With the slightest weather disturbance or even just heavy clouds, I
get loss of signal on the box using the RG59, but just on the HD
channels.
Timothy Daniels
> I have two HD receivers in my house. One is close to the switch and I
> was able to replace the RG59 with RG6. The other is a distance away
> and difficult for me to replace. I haven't done it, yet.
>
> With the slightest weather disturbance or even just heavy clouds, I
> get loss of signal on the box using the RG59, but just on the HD
> channels.
Have you tried an in-line amp to boost the signal?
*TimDaniels*
cjdayton...@cox.net
I guessing here, but I doubt that would help with
this situation. If the cable doesn't support the
hd signal the way it is, I don't think boosting
the signal won't make any difference.
Chip
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SVU
The problem with amplifiers is most of them won't pass the switching
signal back to the multiswitch from the receiver.
Timothy Daniels
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>> "Russ" wrote:
>> > I have two HD receivers in my house. One is close to the switch and I
>> > was able to replace the RG59 with RG6. The other is a distance away
>> > and difficult for me to replace. I haven't done it, yet.
>> >
>> > With the slightest weather disturbance or even just heavy clouds, I
>> > get loss of signal on the box using the RG59, but just on the HD
>> > channels.
>>
>> Have you tried an in-line amp to boost the signal?
>>
>> *TimDaniels*
>
> I guessing here, but I doubt that would help with
> this situation. If the cable doesn't support the
> hd signal the way it is, I don't think boosting
> the signal won't make any difference.
>
> Chip
The nice thing about digital signals is that boosting a
weak signal doesn't just produce a stronger distorted
signal, it makes a weak signal strong. The MDU installer
for our condo building typically uses an in-line amp for
cable runs that are longer than 250' that carry HD signals
to subscribers' units.
*TimDaniels*
Timothy Daniels
> The problem with amplifiers is most of them won't
> pass the switching signal back to the multiswitch
> from the receiver.
For a system that handles HD, I don't know what
form the switching signal takes. But the MDU installer
for our condo building uses in-line amps for runs that
are longer than 250' and which carry HD signals. I'm
sure that the amps have circuitry that passes upstream
contrl signals, you just have to get the right kind of
amp. As I recall, the MDU installation company
quoted a price of between $15 and $25 for the amp.
*TimDaniels*
cjdayton...@cox.net
That may be, but in this case, the RG59, in many cases,
simply doesn't carry the signal correctly. I doubt that
boosting it will make any difference. It might be worth
a try, however. I hope we hear how it works.
Timothy Daniels
> That may be, but in this case, the RG59, in many cases,
> simply doesn't carry the signal correctly. I doubt that
> boosting it will make any difference. It might be worth
> a try, however. I hope we hear how it works.
>
> Chip
Our MDU installer has said that RG59 can be used
successfully for satellite sytems, but that it has a higher
signal attenuation per foot of length, and the older
RG59 usually had lousy connectors put on them. With
even higher frequencies coming from the LNBs nowadays
(a little over 2GHz), RG59 presents too much signal
attentuation if the run is over 100', and those lousy
connectors reflect a good portion of the signal back
and forth along the length of the cable. But... with
good connectors (i.e. compression-fit, such as SnapNSeal,
Holland, Digicon, etc.), a signal boost might be all that's
needed. The OP should contact his installer for a
recommendation on brands and models of amp and to
request that modern connectors be put on the cable.
*TimDaniels*
Don T
news:IIGdnbM2Lc-JwSHU...@earthlink.com...
Actually the OP is getting a new install on the satellite system so he
should not need anything at all except the installer pull RG6 to wherever
the RX will sit. Which they will do.
cjdayton...@cox.net
IIRC, the op was having an hd installation. The signals
have a much higher frequency compared to an sd signal.
That's where the RG59 will have problems.
Steve Stone
> should not need anything at all except the installer pull RG6 to
> wherever the RX will sit. Which they will do.
>
As long as the installer doesn't break something else in the process.
I had an onsite replacement of an H20 receiver. The tech decided to also
replace the outdoor ground block and F connectors.
When he left the upstairs receiver didn't work. I traced it back to the
connection at the ground block, where the center lead in the coax for
upstairs had pulled back deep into the F connector, easy enough for me
to fix rather than call him back and wait a week for another appointment.
GMAN
than the so called pro's. I had to redo a few myself. I made DirecTV give me
some free HBO for the fact.