Re: Russian women - a far better experience for American men
krp
"hvatum" <hva...@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:3793caff.04070...@posting.google.com...
> > > Dear Reader,
> > >
> > > If you are one of the many Westerners who harbor the myth that most or
all
> > > Russian women are desperate to leave their country or want a green
card, then
> > > please read my article below and consider the 12 points that I make
which prove
> > > that it to be a narrow-minded egocentric American myth. These points
are based
> > > on my experiences of being 6 months in Russia, visiting 9 cities, and
meeting
> > > hundreds of people there.
> > Maybe you MISS the interviews with the Russian women (and eastern
block
> > nations) where they say themslves that they ARE trying to get out of
Russia etc.
> > Of all foreign marriages to American men, Russian (and former soviet
> > block nations) wives are the most prone to end in divorce, and the
marriage
> > end rather quickly. In less than 2 years. Just long enough to make the
> > hurdel for permanent resident status.
> Again, A feminist making assumptions that cannot be backed up in fact
> at all. I assert that the average divorce rate for foreign marriages
> is about 20%, and guess what? Unlike you I'm actually right...
Well I can tell you from MY experience in divorce and custody cases that
there is a high incidence NOW.... Your Census report is dated 1996.. This is
2004.
8 YEARS have gone by. There were far fewer marriages in 1996 and in effect
almost NONE of the big marriage bureaus that exist today existed then.
Internet penetration in the eastern bloc nations in 1996 was almost
non-existent. Nice TRY at rationalization. But anyone working on these cases
knows TODAY'S reality.
Different Russian women today. In those days more of the relationships were
romantically based. My position is NOT that Russian women are bad as a
whole, but that there is an insidious number that are predatory today. Many
occasions were found where the women were still legally married in Russia.
They remain here long enough to get their resident status, then divorce the
American husband and bring over their Russian husband.
I am NOT saying that ALL Russian women are this way, just that your wild
eyed and naive assumption that it is all sugar and honey is not the real
world. And many men have found these women running back to Mother Russia
with kids. GOOD LUCK in trying to get anything from a Russian court! And I
do mean ANYTHING!
ozzman
web2...@verizon.net says...
> My position is NOT that Russian women are bad as a
> whole, but that there is an insidious number that are predatory today. Many
> occasions were found where the women were still legally married in Russia.
> They remain here long enough to get their resident status, then divorce the
> American husband and bring over their Russian husband.
You always have to do your homework - spend time knowing her
background before hooking up with her
> I am NOT saying that ALL Russian women are this way, just that your wild
> eyed and naive assumption that it is all sugar and honey is not the real
> world.
This is true - Russian women can easily assimilate andbecome
spoiled and rotten just like US bitches. True of all women no
matter where they come from. Best advice in this regard is to
live abroad with the foreign chick, divide your time between
foreign country and US.
krp
"ozzman" <ozz....@net.net> wrote in message
news:c7d882429c6387f8...@news.meganetnews.com...
> > My position is NOT that Russian women are bad as a
> > whole, but that there is an insidious number that are predatory today.
Many
> > occasions were found where the women were still legally married in
Russia.
> > They remain here long enough to get their resident status, then divorce
the
> > American husband and bring over their Russian husband.
> You always have to do your homework - spend time knowing her background
before hooking up with her
That might apply to you and I, but not to the desperately sex starved.
Besides there are no Private Investigation agencies that can or will give
you such information in the old eastern bloc.
> > I am NOT saying that ALL Russian women are this way, just that your
wild
> > eyed and naive assumption that it is all sugar and honey is not the real
> > world.
> This is true - Russian women can easily assimilate and become
> spoiled and rotten just like US bitches. True of all women no
> matter where they come from. Best advice in this regard is to
> live abroad with the foreign chick, divide your time between
> foreign country and US.
I'd not call American women "bitches" exactly, but most DO hate being
women and seem hell bent in taking that anger out on me as if WE caused them
to have a vagina. I looked at Russian women. What did I see? Too many also
had a hair trigger anger response. I also found them a bit cold and
demanding, too similar to their American sisters, but desperate for a man
that has some promise. I prefer Latinas. In specific Cuban women. They are
fiercely independent yet not only capable of love they overflow with it if
you are respectful to them. The average American douchebag that slugs down
Budweiser by the gallon, is a couch potato, and likes slapping the little
woman around for sport will NOT like a Latin woman! You'd be likely to wake
up in incredible pain with your penis in your mouth, and your testicles in
Toledo.
krp
"Turin" <turin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cc73vu$c...@odak26.prod.google.com...
>
> > I am NOT saying that ALL Russian women are this way, just that your
wild
> > eyed and naive assumption that it is all sugar and honey is not the real
> > world. And many men have found these women running back to Mother
Russia
> > with kids. GOOD LUCK in trying to get anything from a Russian court!
And I
> > do mean ANYTHING!
> While Pangborn entertains us with everyday sloppy moderate
> generalizing, Could you post the page number from that .pdf link (which
> he deleted), that had the divorce rate(s) on foreign marriages?
It's a 1996 report Turin....... This is 2004.....................
ozzman
web2...@verizon.net says...
>
> "ozzman" <ozz....@net.net> wrote in message
> news:c7d882429c6387f8...@news.meganetnews.com...
>
> > > My position is NOT that Russian women are bad as a
> > > whole, but that there is an insidious number that are predatory today.
> Many
> > > occasions were found where the women were still legally married in
> Russia.
> > > They remain here long enough to get their resident status, then divorce
> the
> > > American husband and bring over their Russian husband.
>
> > You always have to do your homework - spend time knowing her background
> before hooking up with her
>
> That might apply to you and I, but not to the desperately sex starved.
> Besides there are no Private Investigation agencies that can or will give
> you such information in the old eastern bloc.
This applies to anyone with a brain. It's the first thing he
should know before he goes out looking, and it can be pretty much
handled by himself. If he feels he has to hire a PI, then he has
to be resourceful to get one. Otherwise he's on his own.
> > > I am NOT saying that ALL Russian women are this way, just that your
> wild
> > > eyed and naive assumption that it is all sugar and honey is not the real
> > > world.
>
> > This is true - Russian women can easily assimilate and become
> > spoiled and rotten just like US bitches. True of all women no
> > matter where they come from. Best advice in this regard is to
> > live abroad with the foreign chick, divide your time between
> > foreign country and US.
>
> I'd not call American women "bitches" exactly, but most DO hate being
> women and seem hell bent in taking that anger out on me as if WE caused them
> to have a vagina. I looked at Russian women. What did I see? Too many also
> had a hair trigger anger response. I also found them a bit cold and
> demanding, too similar to their American sisters, but desperate for a man
> that has some promise. I prefer Latinas. In specific Cuban women. They are
> fiercely independent yet not only capable of love they overflow with it if
> you are respectful to them. The average American douchebag that slugs down
> Budweiser by the gallon, is a couch potato, and likes slapping the little
> woman around for sport will NOT like a Latin woman! You'd be likely to wake
> up in incredible pain with your penis in your mouth, and your testicles in
> Toledo.
>
First, I would call American women "bitches" based on personal
experience, and the fact that I am going out of my way to find a
women thousands of miles away in a foreign country, when there
are many Ameirican bitches around me right now. Im also not
going to presume that average American guys are what you called
them, or whatever violent tendencies they may or may not have.
Many are not like that. In any case, that is not my business.
I'm not debating which type of foreign chick is better - that's
an individual choice. I'll these guys decide for themselves and
stand out of their way.
krp
> > > You always have to do your homework - spend time knowing her
background
> > before hooking up with her
> > That might apply to you and I, but not to the desperately sex
starved.
> > Besides there are no Private Investigation agencies that can or will
give
> > you such information in the old eastern bloc.
> This applies to anyone with a brain. It's the first thing he
> should know before he goes out looking, and it can be pretty much
> handled by himself. If he feels he has to hire a PI, then he has
> to be resourceful to get one. Otherwise he's on his own.
Look Oz, HORNEY men SELDOM think before they plug in. Where do you hire
a PI in Moscow?? Yellow pages? How many are listed?
Come on guy. You operate blind on faith and instinct, but an erection has
little instinct. Many of the Russian babes are gorgeous. Few mean realize
that if it looks too good to be ture IT ISN'T! There's ALWAYS a catch!
Well I won't call them that despite two divorces. Come on, Joe Sixpack
is abundant as hell. Most guys are nice to their wives, but, you miss the
point.
Yes American women leave plenty to be desired in the temperament department.
Most guys prefer to wake up with the same woman they went to sleep with.
Wild mood swings are hard to deal with. Most American women are spoiled and
did not get as much discipline from their parents in childhood as they
needed or got too much. There are loads of good American women as well. I
have seen too much to believe in blind faith in Russian women. You are
selling too hard.
ozzman
web2...@verizon.net says...
>
> "ozzman" <ozz....@net.net> wrote in message
> news:8bd9c16879b268d6...@news.meganetnews.com...
>
> > > > You always have to do your homework - spend time knowing her
> background
> > > before hooking up with her
>
> > > That might apply to you and I, but not to the desperately sex
> starved.
> > > Besides there are no Private Investigation agencies that can or will
> give
> > > you such information in the old eastern bloc.
>
> > This applies to anyone with a brain. It's the first thing he
> > should know before he goes out looking, and it can be pretty much
> > handled by himself. If he feels he has to hire a PI, then he has
> > to be resourceful to get one. Otherwise he's on his own.
>
> Look Oz, HORNEY men SELDOM think before they plug in.
then that's their own damn fault, and I dont care. Youre
making this more complicated than it is - it's your responsiblity
to find out who's right for you and to do the spadework youself,
is my point.
> Where do you hire
> a PI in Moscow?? Yellow pages? How many are listed?
> Come on guy. You operate blind on faith and instinct, but an erection has
> little instinct. Many of the Russian babes are gorgeous. Few mean realize
> that if it looks too good to be ture IT ISN'T! There's ALWAYS a catch!
I never said there wasn't, which is why I said you have to do
some digging around before you settle with one particular chick.
>
> > First, I would call American women "bitches" based on personal
> > experience, and the fact that I am going out of my way to find a
> > women thousands of miles away in a foreign country, when there
> > are many Ameirican bitches around me right now. Im also not
> > going to presume that average American guys are what you called
> > them, or whatever violent tendencies they may or may not have.
> > Many are not like that. In any case, that is not my business.
> > I'm not debating which type of foreign chick is better - that's
> > an individual choice. I'll these guys decide for themselves and
> > stand out of their way.
>
> Well I won't call them that despite two divorces.
If I were twice divorced from American females, I sure would
without apology or hesitation. Whether as wives or even just as
acquaintances, American females are simply low-quality humans
when compared to other foreign females - there's just no
comparison.
> Come on, Joe Sixpack
> is abundant as hell. Most guys are nice to their wives, but, you miss the
> point.
No, *YOU* did - THAT'S why I said the kind of guy you were
talking about above was none of my business.
> Yes American women leave plenty to be desired in the temperament department.
> Most guys prefer to wake up with the same woman they went to sleep with.
> Wild mood swings are hard to deal with. Most American women are spoiled and
> did not get as much discipline from their parents in childhood as they
> needed or got too much. There are loads of good American women as well. I
> have seen too much to believe in blind faith in Russian women. You are
> selling too hard.
I've sold NOTHING - I never said to go out and find a Russian
woman. I said that's up to the guy - let the buyer beware and
let him choose from a set of options waht he feels is right (or
not right) for him. So FUCK that bullshit about me "selling too
hard." And I would NEVER put blind faith in anything. Everyone
has to be careful and in order to do what he feels is right for
himself, or will most make him happy. And that involves a bit of
effort and common sense, NOT "blind faith."
>
krp
> > > This applies to anyone with a brain. It's the first thing he
> > > should know before he goes out looking, and it can be pretty much
> > > handled by himself. If he feels he has to hire a PI, then he has
> > > to be resourceful to get one. Otherwise he's on his own.
> > Look Oz, HORNEY men SELDOM think before they plug in.
> then that's their own damn fault, and I dont care. Youre
> making this more complicated than it is - it's your responsiblity
> to find out who's right for you and to do the spadework youself,
> is my point.
No you are over simplifying. The problem is, your stary-eyed hard sell
on Russian women aside, is that it almost impossible to do that "spade work"
in any of the former eastern bloc nations. In many ways Russia is like the
wild west. There are not hundreds of PI's listen in the Moscow phone book,
and that is considering that you'd even be lucky enough to find a Moscow
phone book. They don't yet have a "Yellow Pages" as such. This isn't
Phiadelphia we are talking about. And if you think you will find the
"truth" with a predatory woman, you're sadly mistaken. If you think the
State Department will help you, you are delusional. You will find NO group
on the face of the Earth that hates Americans more than the State
Department, not even Al Queda hates us as much as our own State Department!
> > Come on guy. You operate blind on faith and instinct, but an erection
has
> > little instinct. Many of the Russian babes are gorgeous. Few mean
realize
> > that if it looks too good to be ture IT ISN'T! There's ALWAYS a catch!
> I never said there wasn't, which is why I said you have to do
> some digging around before you settle with one particular chick.
Where does a guy "DIG" in a place where NO infrastructure exists to do
that? In Chicago, publioc records can tell you the last time a woman took a
carp, how much it weighed and how bad it stunk! There is NO such thing in
Russia! You are rationalizing. That does not mean all Russian women are
evil, it just means that IF that Russian woman turns out to be (using YOUR
terminology) a "bitch" you face an exponential increase in problems. I get
calls almost every day from men whose "RUSSIAN" wives have accused them of
Domestic Violence shortly after arriving. Did you know that doing that gives
the Russian woman an AUTOMATIC green card????? Tell you, THEY know it! You
are so damn niave, and that's okay. You are HARD SELLING to other guys they
they just walk in to this idea that RUSSIAN WOMEN are great... And some
ARE........ My wife is Cuban, but anyone who thinks that there are no
predatory Cuban women is also NUTS! In Cuba they have a name for those
women..."jinetearas" .... In ANY relations with a foreigner you are always
on your own the same as you would be with an American woman, only with
greatly added complications. We do not live in an insular world. the word
gets out.
So that we cut the shit here... My wife is a judicial employee, without
discussing her exact job so my STALKERS can't play with it, some of our
discussion is her puzzlement with our laws here and just how HATE FILLED
they are toward men. Yes EVEN in Cuba, women KNOW initmately just how
anti-male our laws are and the predatory ones know PRECISELY how to take the
maximum advantage of them! The truth is that Russian women are for many
reasons not free from the same cancer any other group of women are. Not to
mention the immaturity of some Russian women who may have good intentions at
the beginning. I know first hand dealing with cultural differences, and the
culture of my wife and mine are much closer than with a Russian woman.
> > > First, I would call American women "bitches" based on personal
> > > experience, and the fact that I am going out of my way to find a
> > > women thousands of miles away in a foreign country, when there
> > > are many Ameirican bitches around me right now. Im also not
> > > going to presume that average American guys are what you called
> > > them, or whatever violent tendencies they may or may not have.
> > > Many are not like that. In any case, that is not my business.
> > > I'm not debating which type of foreign chick is better - that's
> > > an individual choice. I'll these guys decide for themselves and
> > > stand out of their way.
> >
> > Well I won't call them that despite two divorces.
> If I were twice divorced from American females, I sure would
> without apology or hesitation. Whether as wives or even just as
> acquaintances, American females are simply low-quality humans
> when compared to other foreign females - there's just no
> comparison.
You see, that's you, it is not me. I dearly loved my first wife and she
loved me. The problem was one that could not be corrected, a problem with
drugs and alcohol, and she was once violent drunk. She was a great woman and
oh how she could love. But.......... she could never shake the monkey. She
tried. She was clean when we met and for the first year we were married.
Then old friends got her back into the "life." I had NO experience with that
scene, so I tried for a couple more years and 3 babies to deal with it. She
had a really messed up childhood, none of which I knew about until well
after we were married. She was also drop dead gorgeous when we were married.
My second wife also had a dysfunctional childhood, but was much smarter and
better educated. The marriage was really good until a mid life crisis hit
her. The sad thing is you can't force somebody to get psychological help
just because they have snapped and now are a different person where they
turn on their family, church and life and want to go 90 degrees in a
different direction. When they come to their senses and straighten out it
is too late.
> > Come on, Joe Sixpack is abundant as hell. Most guys are nice to their
wives, but, you miss the
> > point.
> No, *YOU* did - THAT'S why I said the kind of guy you were talking about
above was none of my business.
But you are "HARD SELLING" to many Joe Sixpack types in these forums,
and to many very vulnerable men who have been betrayed so fundamentally, who
are hurting in the soul, and leading them into a blind alley. Just signing
up a foreign bride isn't always the best answer for these guys. ALLL and I
do mean ALL of the infrastructure for divorce recovery is aimed at women and
is HOSTILE to men! 100% of the effort of it is when they reluctantly deal
with men, it is to drill into them all the things wrong that THEY did and
why they are worthless shit! Men in the existing programs become little more
than punching bags for angry women who run the programs or self loathing
accomplice males who express their virility (such as they have) by beating
up men who MUST submit to their abuse.
> > Yes American women leave plenty to be desired in the temperament
department.
> > Most guys prefer to wake up with the same woman they went to sleep with.
> > Wild mood swings are hard to deal with. Most American women are spoiled
and
> > did not get as much discipline from their parents in childhood as they
> > needed or got too much. There are loads of good American women as well.
I
> > have seen too much to believe in blind faith in Russian women. You are
> > selling too hard.
> I've sold NOTHING - I never said to go out and find a Russian woman.
Sorry guy, you are not just selling, you are using the HARD SELL.. Let's
look at the above subject header.. "Russian woman- a far better experience
for American Men" that sir, whether you admit it or not is the HARD HARD
SELL!
> I said that's up to the guy - let the buyer beware and
> let him choose from a set of options waht he feels is right (or
> not right) for him. So FUCK that bullshit about me "selling too
> hard." And I would NEVER put blind faith in anything. Everyone
> has to be careful and in order to do what he feels is right for
> himself, or will most make him happy. And that involves a bit of
> effort and common sense, NOT "blind faith."
I don't care how angry you get. You never gave "let the buyer beware"
even lip service until I challenged you, until then it was all utopia and
bashing American women. Not that I am defending American women because they
richly deserve being called on their selfish behavior. What YOU put blind
faith in is not the issue it is what you suggest to others.
Young man, and your writing suggests you are well under 40, ANY time a
man hooks up with a woman (or a woman with a man for that matter) it is
always a gamble. You gamble that appearances are not deception. That you are
actually buying what you think you are seeing. With a divorce rate in the
60+% range, it's fair to say that most of the time it isn't. Love is blind
and an erection makes men stupid.
I worked many years with a very wise professor at a major University
learning my trade. One of the things he often stated, in response to the
problems we men find ourselves in, is the explanatiuon that our problems are
caused by an inadequate blood supply. When we see a beautiful woman all the
blood in the brain drains to the penis and we get stupid. There is much more
truth to that than almost all of us are willing to admit.
That applies to this is that you foolishly argue that men should do
spade work that they really can't do anyway. That it caveat emptorer, and it
is with ANY woman, and women assume the same risk. Oz.............. the
world over, marriage has lost almost ALL of its meaning! This isn't just a
problem in America, even in most of the Latin world, people trade spouses
like they do watches. Many Catholic countries are staggering with high
divorce rates because we have thrown away the rules in society! IF IT FEELS
GOOD - DO IT! IF IT FEELS REALLY GOOD - DO IT ALL YOU CAN!!! There are no
rules today. It is the ME generation's spawn. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!
And we have in particular spoiled women. When a man finds a woman who is NOT
living 100% for herself, he has struck the mother load. Can he find it with
a Russian woman? Yes. He can also find it with an American woman. BUT if you
look at the odds, you can find them better with women who have strong
values. Nationality is meaningless.
I'd also say that IF you want to find the right woman, you must remember
that YOU must also be the right man!
>
> >
krp
> > > > I am NOT saying that ALL Russian women are this way, just that
your wild
> > > > eyed and naive assumption that it is all sugar and honey is not the
real
> > > > world. And many men have found these women running back to Mother
Russia
> > > > with kids. GOOD LUCK in trying to get anything from a Russian court!
And I
> > > > do mean ANYTHING!
> > > While Pangborn entertains us with everyday sloppy moderate
> > > generalizing, Could you post the page number from that .pdf link
(which
> > > he deleted), that had the divorce rate(s) on foreign marriages?
> > It's a 1996 report Turin....... This is 2004.....................
> That was an invalid objection when you brought it up, and it's still
invalid. Besides, I wasn't asking you.
Turin you never fail to amaze me at the level of your ignorance and
stupidity. Off the charts really. The government stopped taking that kind of
statistic in around 1997. So you deal with what was available PRIOR to 1996
when there were ver FEW Russian/American marriages. It would not be for
several years that the agencies and Internet marriage agencies would be
created. The FACT is el stupido, that there weren't many marriages and thos
ethta were tended to be those based on romance as opposed to other motives.
They were in point of FACT, typically long standing relationships created by
years of contact in business relationships or social ones. TODAY'S
American/Russian marriages are done at warp speed, often in a few months if
not days. The poin is VERY valid. And I can send you the entire PDF Turin
and it does NOT quite support the poster's idyllic views even then.
hvatum
> In article <FZNFc.8169$6e7....@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
> web2...@verizon.net says...
> >
> > "ozzman" <ozz....@net.net> wrote in message
> > news:8bd9c16879b268d6...@news.meganetnews.com...
> >
> > > > > You always have to do your homework - spend time knowing her
> background
> > > > before hooking up with her
>
> > > > That might apply to you and I, but not to the desperately sex
> starved.
> > > > Besides there are no Private Investigation agencies that can or will
> give
> > > > you such information in the old eastern bloc.
>
> > > This applies to anyone with a brain. It's the first thing he
> > > should know before he goes out looking, and it can be pretty much
> > > handled by himself. If he feels he has to hire a PI, then he has
> > > to be resourceful to get one. Otherwise he's on his own.
> >
> > Look Oz, HORNEY men SELDOM think before they plug in.
>
>
> then that's their own damn fault, and I dont care. Youre
> making this more complicated than it is - it's your responsiblity
> to find out who's right for you and to do the spadework youself,
> is my point.
>
I completely agree. No need to make generalizations about all of the
men going to russia. Doing a good job is up to him.
> > Where do you hire
> > a PI in Moscow?? Yellow pages? How many are listed?
>
>
> > Come on guy. You operate blind on faith and instinct, but an erection has
> > little instinct. Many of the Russian babes are gorgeous. Few mean realize
> > that if it looks too good to be ture IT ISN'T! There's ALWAYS a catch!
>
>
> I never said there wasn't, which is why I said you have to do
> some digging around before you settle with one particular chick.
Obviously. I would actually say most men realize that if it looks to
good to be true that it isn't. That's why the relationships often last
for extended periods of time before a man settles for one particular
russian woman. Simple market dynamics dictate that it is easier for a
man to find a dependable loving wife in Russia than in the US (There
are few men interested in doing this in the US, and many women in
Russia). They just need to carefully screen some of them out (A quick
starter tip, the gold digger types will stear you towards the more
expensive restraunts in the City. The caring loving types will tell
you not to waste your money on a restraunt and invite you to have some
food at their apartment.)
> >
> > > First, I would call American women "bitches" based on personal
> > > experience, and the fact that I am going out of my way to find a
> > > women thousands of miles away in a foreign country, when there
> > > are many Ameirican bitches around me right now. Im also not
> > > going to presume that average American guys are what you called
> > > them, or whatever violent tendencies they may or may not have.
> > > Many are not like that. In any case, that is not my business.
> > > I'm not debating which type of foreign chick is better - that's
> > > an individual choice. I'll these guys decide for themselves and
> > > stand out of their way.
> >
> > Well I won't call them that despite two divorces.
>
>
> If I were twice divorced from American females, I sure would
> without apology or hesitation. Whether as wives or even just as
> acquaintances, American females are simply low-quality humans
> when compared to other foreign females - there's just no
> comparison.
Agreed. Even Germans I dated played fewer head games than any US woman
I have yet dated, and I dated one US woman whom anyone would consider
very level headed and caring.
> > Come on, Joe Sixpack
> > is abundant as hell. Most guys are nice to their wives, but, you miss the
> > point.
>
>
> No, *YOU* did - THAT'S why I said the kind of guy you were
> talking about above was none of my business.
>
>
> > Yes American women leave plenty to be desired in the temperament department.
> > Most guys prefer to wake up with the same woman they went to sleep with.
> > Wild mood swings are hard to deal with. Most American women are spoiled and
> > did not get as much discipline from their parents in childhood as they
> > needed or got too much. There are loads of good American women as well. I
> > have seen too much to believe in blind faith in Russian women. You are
> > selling too hard.
>
>
> I've sold NOTHING - I never said to go out and find a Russian
> woman. I said that's up to the guy - let the buyer beware and
> let him choose from a set of options waht he feels is right (or
> not right) for him. So FUCK that bullshit about me "selling too
> hard." And I would NEVER put blind faith in anything. Everyone
> has to be careful and in order to do what he feels is right for
> himself, or will most make him happy. And that involves a bit of
> effort and common sense, NOT "blind faith."
>
Agreed.
avenger
news:<febfe0fd948f5901...@news.meganetnews.com>...
> > In article <FZNFc.8169$6e7....@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
> > web2...@verizon.net says...
> > >
> > > "ozzman" <ozz....@net.net> wrote in message
> > > news:8bd9c16879b268d6...@news.meganetnews.com...
> > >
> > > > > > You always have to do your homework - spend time knowing her
> > background
> > > > > before hooking up with her
> >
> > > > > That might apply to you and I, but not to the desperately sex
> > starved.
> > > > > Besides there are no Private Investigation agencies that can or
will
> > give
> > > > > you such information in the old eastern bloc.
Nonsense, there are plenty of agencies and free lancers who will spy for you
at cheap rates. And it's about as reliable as any information a US detective
would obtain.
> >
> > > > This applies to anyone with a brain. It's the first thing he
> > > > should know before he goes out looking, and it can be pretty much
> > > > handled by himself. If he feels he has to hire a PI, then he has
> > > > to be resourceful to get one. Otherwise he's on his own.
> > >
> > > Look Oz, HORNEY men SELDOM think before they plug in.
> >
> >
> > then that's their own damn fault, and I dont care. Youre
> > making this more complicated than it is - it's your responsiblity
> > to find out who's right for you and to do the spadework youself,
> > is my point.
> >
>
> I completely agree. No need to make generalizations about all of the
> men going to russia. Doing a good job is up to him.
>
> > > Where do you hire
> > > a PI in Moscow?? Yellow pages? How many are listed?
What do you want to do? I'll give you a name of husband and wife who will
get the info you want.
> >
> >
> > > Come on guy. You operate blind on faith and instinct, but an erection
has
> > > little instinct. Many of the Russian babes are gorgeous. Few mean
realize
> > > that if it looks too good to be ture IT ISN'T! There's ALWAYS a
catch!
So how is this different from the typical US bitch who inflates her value
and probably has a lot more to hide?
> >
> >
> > I never said there wasn't, which is why I said you have to do
> > some digging around before you settle with one particular chick.
>
> Obviously. I would actually say most men realize that if it looks to
> good to be true that it isn't. That's why the relationships often last
> for extended periods of time before a man settles for one particular
> russian woman. Simple market dynamics dictate that it is easier for a
> man to find a dependable loving wife in Russia than in the US (There
> are few men interested in doing this in the US, and many women in
> Russia). They just need to carefully screen some of them out (A quick
> starter tip, the gold digger types will stear you towards the more
> expensive restraunts in the City. The caring loving types will tell
> you not to waste your money on a restraunt and invite you to have some
> food at their apartment.)
But this is good advice regardless of where the woman is from.
Of course there are many bad Russian women! But the "average" US woman has a
bad attitude and thinks she's god's gift to men. She's been brainwashed and
spoiled. Even wealthy Russian women who have been pampered have a better and
more natural relationship to men. BTW, everything that exists in the US,
also exists in Russia. Child support etc. The difference is that in the US
men are persecuted with unreasonable demands for money and the
responsibility is all one sided in favour of the woman.
Turin
Pangbrain, you can drop the used-car bullshit with me, because I ain't
- and never have been - impressed by your idiotic, overdone "Joe
Sixpack" image. Alright? If you have one overriding fault in your
ability to debate, then it's the fact that you constantly talk in
soundbites and marketed phrases which attempt to wham the listener
around with words, but which ultimately fall back on attempting to
command his or her respect for what they say about what you stand for
...which is nothing more than a laugh, from where I'm sitting.
Like I said, I wasn't talking to you - because you wouldn't know. As
usual, you're stacking your extremely limited anecdotal experience
against the original poster's, which read to me like it had much more
basis - and homework done - for it than your own (always exaggerated)
claims.
At any rate, he had first hand experience IN RUSSIA, while you don't.
Only, possibly, a very filtered experience of whatever few men had
mistakenly called you up as victims of Russian gold-diggers, but which
you of course had to promote, as a blurb.
As far as the date of the report goes, I was asking about it in order
to verify what your opponent had claimed, in itself, about it. If you
had more of a brain, then you would have said nothing, realizing that
it might hurt his case, anyway. As it was, though, you hadn't
bothered to check it beyond looking at the date, and are now agreeing
with me, while taking the credit for what I spotted, like the
suburbanized cracker that you really are.
The fact is, I don't see why you're even making an argument about
this, beyond your constant need to fake an alpha male personality. If
he says that he is currently witnessing all of this in Russia, then
why would you presume to contradict him at all based on your state
side view of things, unless you're going to claim that he's not really
in Russia? The study was tangential.
Probably all that it is, is the fact that we're talking about
Russians, and it's the old cold war mentality: Mindlessly bashing the
culture of a supposed enemy - like a jingo - as part of your Joe
Sixpack image ...Pangborn, for once in your dumb fucking life, just
shut up, sit back, and listen and learn from your betters. Your
generation was nothing more than a bunch of liars in it's prime, and
you garbage scows still haven't become more moral with the passing of
time.
- - -
This has been another word of wisdom, with...
Turin
I have such sites to show you...
------------------------
http://members.fortunecity.com/turinturambar/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Men_First/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Men_Politics/
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/socmen2
------------------------
"He who changeth, altereth, misconstrueth, argueth with, deleteth, or
maketh a lie about these words or causeth them to not be known shall
burn in hell forever and ever...."
-----
Turin
> Your generation was
> nothing more than a bunch of liars in it's prime, and you garbage scows
> still haven't become more moral with the passing of time.
I meant to say "the conservatives of your generation" ...not that
Painbrain would've even noticed on his own.
KRP
"avenger" <m...@avengers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bQ6Gc.6280$ne6....@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
Besides there are no Private Investigation agencies that can or will give
you such information in the old eastern bloc.
> Nonsense, there are plenty of agencies and free lancers who will spy for
you
> at cheap rates. And it's about as reliable as any information a US
detective
> would obtain.
There are? List some.
> > > > Where do you hire a PI in Moscow?? Yellow pages? How many are
listed?
> What do you want to do? I'll give you a name of husband and wife who will
get the info you want.
Maybe they need to create a website for that service. The men going to
Russia that I have spoken to could find no such service. And the "agencies"
certainly did not vet any of the women.
> > > > Come on guy. You operate blind on faith and instinct, but an
erection has
> > > > little instinct. Many of the Russian babes are gorgeous. Few mean
realize
> > > > that if it looks too good to be ture IT ISN'T! There's ALWAYS a
catch!
> So how is this different from the typical US bitch who inflates her value
and probably has a lot more to hide?
The difference is that today you can easily find out anything you want
on American women. Such as finding out things like arrests for drunk and
disorderly (generally NOT a great sign for a relationship) or the number of
police reports she has filed. You can find out what her childhood was like.
All big indicators of the chances for a marriage. Most men never get past
the tits!
> > > I never said there wasn't, which is why I said you have to do
> > > some digging around before you settle with one particular chick.
>
> > Obviously. I would actually say most men realize that if it looks to
> > good to be true that it isn't. That's why the relationships often last
> > for extended periods of time before a man settles for one particular
> > russian woman. Simple market dynamics dictate that it is easier for a
> > man to find a dependable loving wife in Russia than in the US (There
> > are few men interested in doing this in the US, and many women in
> > Russia). They just need to carefully screen some of them out (A quick
> > starter tip, the gold digger types will stear you towards the more
> > expensive restraunts in the City. The caring loving types will tell
> > you not to waste your money on a restraunt and invite you to have some
> > food at their apartment.)
> But this is good advice regardless of where the woman is from.
The point is that complete and reliable information is easier to obtain
in the US, where it is almost impossible in the Eastern Bloc nations.
The average American woman is a spoiled brat full of herself, I grant
you guys that. They missed several good spankings when they were children. I
would be the first to agree that American women are a problem. The first
problem is that they HATE being women! To the American woman that means
being inferior or some twisted mental image of being inferior in their
minds. Therefore they are in a constant state of WAR with men. Marriage is
just hand to hand combat to too many American women. SO to American women
they rarely ENJOY marriage. They also feel that it is OUR DUTY to entertain
them and do their bidding and to be interesting. When our middle starts
filling in they want a "STUD" which is why more women today are engaging in
adultery than men. They seem to forget that their tits now sag to their
kneecaps and their beautiful ass had a blowout. Most of the men I know were
not out shopping for a replacement. Sure some good a little "strange stuff"
but unlike women, men typically don't get attached to the one night stands.
Oh the Russian courts also have very little to no regard to issues like
visitation and move-aways. Men just don't get custody in Russia, and if you
make babies with a Russian woman and she goes back to mother Russia, kiss
EVER seeing your kids again if she doesn't want you to! You think OUR courts
are bad?
KRP
Turin you are and always have been a debate bully, you resort to threats
and diversions. Stick with the subject.
> Like I said, I wasn't talking to you - because you wouldn't know. As
> usual, you're stacking your extremely limited anecdotal experience
> against the original poster's, which read to me like it had much more
> basis - and homework done - for it than your own (always exaggerated)
> claims.
Of course Turin, because I have always regarded you as nothing more than
a very angy, heavy metal acid head punk. So that there is no warm blood
between us is no shock. But I dare say that in my work, I deal with many
more people than he does who have seen the problems in foreign marriages.
You always try to take my points to the extreme. I did say that not all
marriages to Russian women are bad, that the picture of them being so ideal
is a fantasy. There are a great many bad ones. However, this has nothing to
do with the FACT that the data he cited is woefully out of date and of, at
best, dubious relation to the situation today.
> At any rate, he had first hand experience IN RUSSIA, while you don't.
> Only, possibly, a very filtered experience of whatever few men had
> mistakenly called you up as victims of Russian gold-diggers, but which
> you of course had to promote, as a blurb.
How do you KNOW that asswipe? In the period that I was single following
my divorce I did look into relationships with Russian women. Many of them
are drop dead gorgeous. I just went into it with eyes open because I have
seen so many cases that showed the problems with the deal. So whiole I have
known Russian women, some very nice, I know the cultural problems and I know
the upside. Your problem is blind hatred of American women Turin. But in
your case I think the women in your life just may have been fully justified
in hating you and making you miserable. I have promoted NOTHING here Turin.
I have not even said what I do for a living. Intelligent folks can draw
their own conclusions.
> As far as the date of the report goes, I was asking about it in order
> to verify what your opponent had claimed, in itself, about it. If you
> had more of a brain, then you would have said nothing, realizing that
> it might hurt his case, anyway. As it was, though, you hadn't
> bothered to check it beyond looking at the date, and are now agreeing
> with me, while taking the credit for what I spotted, like the
> suburbanized cracker that you really are.
What he claimed was absolutely ACCURATE for the period in which it was
done. The report is dated from 1996, but the sata covers a 10 year period
ending in 1995. If YOU had a brain you'd have seen I did not dispute the
report other than to point out that it was almost a decade out of date and
of dubious validity to the situation today! That being that by best guess
the number of American/Russian marriages is exponentially greater today than
it was then before organized agencies (there are now dozens) versus none
then.
> The fact is, I don't see why you're even making an argument about
> this, beyond your constant need to fake an alpha male personality. If
> he says that he is currently witnessing all of this in Russia, then
> why would you presume to contradict him at all based on your state
> side view of things, unless you're going to claim that he's not really
> in Russia? The study was tangential.
If there is an ALPHA MALE here that'd be you Turin the silverback of the
Internet. Well at least you TRY to pretend to be our silverback, attackign
every other male who dares disagree with your woman hating agenda. I didn't
hear the guy claim to be IN Russia. I think he said he had a personal
relationship with a Russian woman and he could live there. Turin as ALWAYS
you pretend to know things you don't. Do you know if I have ever been to
Russia, perhaps walked in St. Peters square? As usual for you, you pretend
knowledge about my personal life you don'ty have. 100% of your information
about me comes from David Moore and much of that comes from Stacy Alexander.
> Probably all that it is, is the fact that we're talking about
> Russians, and it's the old cold war mentality: Mindlessly bashing the
> culture of a supposed enemy - like a jingo - as part of your Joe
> Sixpack image ...Pangborn, for once in your dumb fucking life, just
> shut up, sit back, and listen and learn from your betters. Your
> generation was nothing more than a bunch of liars in it's prime, and
> you garbage scows still haven't become more moral with the passing of
> time.
Hardly Turin. The cold war has no application here except being an
invention of your twisted mind. You jumped in here to pick a fight with me
PERIOD!
You attempt to place whole ideas in my position that are simply not there.
And YOU will never be my equal much less my better! GOT THAT LOSER?
KRP
Why should I give a crap either way? You delude yourself Turin, that every
word you emit is golden........ You attack EVERY men's rights activist on
and off the net EVERYWHERE in the world. According to YOU, you are the
GREATEST spokesman for the male gender. In truth you do our gender more harm
than good.
Turin the vast majority of American men do NOT hate women as you do!
KRP
> > > While Pangborn entertains us with everyday sloppy moderate
> > > generalizing, Could you post the page number from that .pdf link
(which
> > > he deleted), that had the divorce rate(s) on foreign marriages?
> > It's a 1996 report Turin....... This is 2004.....................
> That was an invalid objection when you brought it up, and it's still
> invalid. Besides, I wasn't asking you.
No Turin it is absolutely valid for the reasons I have now stated
several times.
1. There were FEW cases of American men marrying Russian women in the time
the data was collected compared to today.
2. There were not the huge numbers of "marriage bureaus" in that period
(immediately following the collapse of the Soviet Union) there are today.
3. At the time the data as collected for that OUT OF DATE report, ther was
almost NO Internet infrastructure in Russia.
There are MANY reasons why that OLD report has little to no value today.
Those are merel;y a few of them. Beside, it was never MY position that they
all are bad. Just not the IDEAL being sold here. He is a man selling
something. My position was to merely through some light on the subject for
discussion. YOURS is to TRY to pretend to be the SIlverback of Usenet, and
Turin you are merely a heavy metal acid freak punk!
KRP
> > http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p70-80.pdf
>
>
> I had already downloaded it. I need the page number.
>
> I was only pointing out the fact that krp had deleted the link in his
> reply as part of his typical dishonesty. You understand.
Why should I have included it? He had posted it. The ONLY point I make is
that it was of date collected PRIOR to 1996 which it openly says on the
FIRST PAGE in 50 point type!! Only an ASS like you burdens people with 100%
of the text as opposed to limiting quoting ONLY to what you are directly
responding to. HE knew what he cited. No need for including it Turin unless
you are a silverback WANNABE from Rochester New York!
avenger
"KRP" <web2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:PEbGc.19204$6e7....@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
>
> "avenger" <m...@avengers.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:bQ6Gc.6280$ne6....@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
>
> Besides there are no Private Investigation agencies that can or will
give
> you such information in the old eastern bloc.
>
> > Nonsense, there are plenty of agencies and free lancers who will spy for
> you
> > at cheap rates. And it's about as reliable as any information a US
> detective
> > would obtain.
>
> There are? List some.
>
> > > > > Where do you hire a PI in Moscow?? Yellow pages? How many are
> listed?
>
> > What do you want to do? I'll give you a name of husband and wife who
will
> get the info you want.
>
> Maybe they need to create a website for that service. The men going to
> Russia that I have spoken to could find no such service. And the
"agencies"
> certainly did not vet any of the women.
If the men were in Russia they can do it themselves. I was referring to
people who will check out a woman before you even go to meet her.Fewer than
1% of Russia women marry outside Russia which is lower than other countries
and very few want to leave Russia unless they are from a very poor area. No
different that a girl from Appalachia wanting to go to NY or Cal. Women from
Moscow, Peterburg hardly ever want to leave.
>
> > > > > Come on guy. You operate blind on faith and instinct, but an
> erection has
> > > > > little instinct. Many of the Russian babes are gorgeous. Few mean
> realize
> > > > > that if it looks too good to be ture IT ISN'T! There's ALWAYS a
> catch!
>
> > So how is this different from the typical US bitch who inflates her
value
> and probably has a lot more to hide?
>
> The difference is that today you can easily find out anything you want
> on American women.
What if she's changed her name? This is done at the county level and as far
as I know there is no reliable central data base besides she can change it t
wice at 2 different locations. Think you can really trace that?
While Russia has really detailed information on its citizens.
Such as finding out things like arrests for drunk and
> disorderly (generally NOT a great sign for a relationship) or the number
of
> police reports she has filed. You can find out what her childhood was
like.
If she's using her real name and if you know the locality where it occurred.
What do you do check every police department in the US and hope you get the
right answers?
> All big indicators of the chances for a marriage. Most men never get past
> the tits!
>
> > > > I never said there wasn't, which is why I said you have to do
> > > > some digging around before you settle with one particular chick.
> >
> > > Obviously. I would actually say most men realize that if it looks to
> > > good to be true that it isn't. That's why the relationships often last
> > > for extended periods of time before a man settles for one particular
> > > russian woman. Simple market dynamics dictate that it is easier for a
> > > man to find a dependable loving wife in Russia than in the US (There
> > > are few men interested in doing this in the US, and many women in
> > > Russia). They just need to carefully screen some of them out (A quick
> > > starter tip, the gold digger types will stear you towards the more
> > > expensive restraunts in the City. The caring loving types will tell
> > > you not to waste your money on a restraunt and invite you to have some
> > > food at their apartment.)
>
> > But this is good advice regardless of where the woman is from.
>
> The point is that complete and reliable information is easier to
obtain
> in the US, where it is almost impossible in the Eastern Bloc nations.
That's not true. It's much easier to change your identity in the US and hide
any past information on your life.
At that point it's all over for them anyway and only losers will have
anything to do with them.
Most of the men I know were
> not out shopping for a replacement. Sure some good a little "strange
stuff"
> but unlike women, men typically don't get attached to the one night
stands.
>
> Oh the Russian courts also have very little to no regard to issues like
> visitation and move-aways. Men just don't get custody in Russia, and if
you
> make babies with a Russian woman and she goes back to mother Russia, kiss
> EVER seeing your kids again if she doesn't want you to! You think OUR
courts
> are bad?
The US is one of the worst. Men don't want custody in Russia.
>
>
>
>
>
>
ozzman
web2...@verizon.net says...
Sorry to hear about that - all the more reason not to marry
American females. Especially physically attractive ones are
alwasy suspect - upon closer inspection the allure of US female
beauty quickly dissipates.
err,hate to break this to you but you're barking up the wrong
tree. Not that I disagree with the subject line, but I didn't
start this thread. So, I've sold nothing.
I don't see strong values learned or reinforced in women in the
US. OTOH I do see it in other countries generally, especially
in poorer or less developed ones. Women there are generaly not
greedy, they value personality and devotion rather than
advancement or materialism, which has a very pleasant effect on
their attitudes towards men. So I don't entirely agree that
nationality is meaningless. In fact, that many American men are
renouncing females here BECAUSE they are Americans, and because
there are other nationalities in which strong values are
instilled in women shows how meaningful nationality still is.
There's no guarantee wherever you go, and I suppose you might
find some decent American women here and there with strong
values. But I wouldn't waste time finding water in the Sahara
either. Sure, I might find an oasis, but I'd rather go to a
climate where water is much more plentiful.
Turin
Sorry, old man, but the male-feminist, family-man's passive-aggressive
technique still doesn't work on me. Nor, on the countless people who
have witnessed your antics here for years, who may not understand it
for what it is.
All that this sudden whimpering of yours amounts to is that you're
intimidated by me, because you can't intimidate me. You're a
psychotic who needs to browbeat people who you think are smaller than
you. You know it. You know that I know it. You've always had this
problem. That's why you want to change the subject.
> > Like I said, I wasn't talking to you - because you wouldn't know. As
> > usual, you're stacking your extremely limited anecdotal experience
> > against the original poster's, which read to me like it had much more
> > basis - and homework done - for it than your own (always exaggerated)
> > claims.
>
> Of course Turin, because I have always regarded you as nothing more than
> a very angy, heavy metal acid head punk.
No. That's just your latest easy answer. You came up with that
several months ago as a desperation tactic to counter the fact that my
grass roots work in the Men's Movement also represents the growing
backlash against the apologist phonies, like you, who have always
collaborated with the women's syndicate.
It's funny that you would have been late with that one, because it's
the domesticated, suburban, middle class male weasels - whom no one
respects - who have typically resorted to the jealous pop culture
comparisons, almost as long as I remember. But, then, they were VERY
lazy, and were really just looking for a willing audience which
wouldn't snore too loudly - while being bored to sleep/death listening
to their hackneyed soap-boxing. You, on the other hand, want some
conflict ....that is, until you start getting beaten.
...Then - like them - it's all, "boo-hoo! whence cometh all this
untoward anger???"
> So that there is no warm blood
> between us is no shock.
No shit. For that to happen, Al Quaeda would have to hold you down in
front of me, with a camcorder.
> But I dare say that in my work, I deal with many
> more people than he does who have seen the problems in foreign marriages.
I dare say that, in your supposed work, you wouldn't see anything BUT
the problematic marriages. You missed the whole point of Wanderer's
article if you still don't get that. No surprise.
> You always try to take my points to the extreme.
That's because you're a bourgeois idiot who likes to bait people,
using sweeping statements, just so that they will fire back at you,
with an equally polarized mindset, before you switch on them to the
moderate position. I've seen your type a thousand times.
> I did say that not all
> marriages to Russian women are bad, that the picture of them being so ideal
> is a fantasy. There are a great many bad ones. However, this has nothing to
> do with the FACT that the data he cited is woefully out of date and of, at
> best, dubious relation to the situation today.
Well, I say that some data is better than no data - which is what
you're citing: whether to be your usual piss & vinegar self, or to
jingoistically condemn an old socialistic culture (even though you're
a closet socialist, who all but admits it).
Using WHAT data did you say that Russian divorces were now so high?
I'll agree with you, if you've got something valid, but the "Ken
Pangborn says so" argument isn't worth fertilizer enough to make a
Timothy McVeigh explosive device.
> > At any rate, he had first hand experience IN RUSSIA, while you don't.
> > Only, possibly, a very filtered experience of whatever few men had
> > mistakenly called you up as victims of Russian gold-diggers, but which
> > you of course had to promote, as a blurb.
>
> How do you KNOW that asswipe? In the period that I was single following
> my divorce I did look into relationships with Russian women. Many of them
> are drop dead gorgeous.
So, you investigated Russian women to the same extent that Wanderer
did, Did you? Funny you didn't bring this up.
> I just went into it with eyes open because I have
> seen so many cases that showed the problems with the deal.
What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
> So whiole I have
> known Russian women, some very nice, I know the cultural problems and I know
> the upside.
Yeah? And when? When you were single, and on the prowl, breaking all
those Russian hearts....? Is this data any more recent than hvatum's?
> Your problem is blind hatred of American women Turin. But in
> your case I think the women in your life just may have been fully justified
> in hating you and making you miserable.
Yeah... yeah. Isn't that ALWAYS the conclusion of the ex
male-feminist & liberals .....*yawn*
Your problem, Pangborn, is that you're an old male feminist who just
doesn't get it: An old male feminist trying to run the same old lines
and epithets at every Men's advocate that is being born, almost every
day.
Just like in the old days, when you self-effacing nice guys joined
women's groups because you were shitty specimens of virility - but
tried to con everyone into thinking it was because you really believed
women were short-changed.
You were dedicated one-ups-men back then, and you're the same today.
All that you've renounced about any of this is the socialism part of
it, in order to blend in with the new corporate political fads. Your
only aim is - still - to try to capture the female interest, and you
do that by competing against the rest of us, using niceness. It's
still only about the female with you opportunistic cowards. You're
products of rejection.
Still, single-mindedly looking for the best angle that will let you
turn the next man's strength against him, and your weakness into an
advantage over that, so that you can catch him from a blind side and
claim the female. You have no blind side of your own to look out for
because you're willing to eat female shit.
Still, hostile to Men's groups and causes, and still trying to fool
the rest of us with these shitty, no-agenda, reactionary, non-partisan
substitutes - where women get the benefit of double standards, and a
free ride at our expense, no matter what. Men who protest it all,
and who want to get active for their own interests, are just treated
as misogynists - like we should give a shit - rather than as a
political party which refuses to accept disposable second class
citizenship.
You're a coward and a weakling, Pangborn. Other men's oppression is
your best opportunity ...in more ways than one.
> I have promoted NOTHING here Turin.
> I have not even said what I do for a living. Intelligent folks can draw
> their own conclusions.
Yeah. They can draw them, later on, when you start advertising Ken
Pangborn divorce services - after reading what you planted into their
minds, earlier, about your phony vast experience. Right? Right.
And, if they're really intelligent, they can ask you why you don't
pursue a course of CHANGING the system, instead of just keeping the
lawyers in business. You aren't going to fool them much longer with
that line about offering them a cheaper alternative. You have an
ideological bias.
> > As far as the date of the report goes, I was asking about it in order
> > to verify what your opponent had claimed, in itself, about it. If you
> > had more of a brain, then you would have said nothing, realizing that
> > it might hurt his case, anyway. As it was, though, you hadn't
> > bothered to check it beyond looking at the date, and are now agreeing
> > with me, while taking the credit for what I spotted, like the
> > suburbanized cracker that you really are.
>
> What he claimed was absolutely ACCURATE for the period in which it was
> done. The report is dated from 1996, but the sata covers a 10 year period
> ending in 1995. If YOU had a brain you'd have seen I did not dispute the
> report other than to point out that it was almost a decade out of date and
> of dubious validity to the situation today! That being that by best guess
> the number of American/Russian marriages is exponentially greater today than
> it was then before organized agencies (there are now dozens) versus none
> then.
>
Then, give us some hard data on the divorce rate with Russian women,
that you claimed ...or hold your peace.
> > this, beyond your constant need to fake an alpha male personality. If
> > he says that he is currently witnessing all of this in Russia, then
> > why would you presume to contradict him at all based on your state
> > side view of things, unless you're going to claim that he's not really
> > in Russia? The study was tangential.
>
> If there is an ALPHA MALE here that'd be you Turin the silverback of the
> Internet. Well at least you TRY to pretend to be our silverback, attackign
> every other male who dares disagree with your woman hating agenda.
I just love the way this guy can admit in some posts that American
women are deeply fixed man-haters, and yet in others one hold
"woman-hating" in an American man's face as a sin (because when it
comes to MEN fighting back, he's too damn "good" for it). If that
doesn't say it all about what's wrong with the U.S. attitude toward
it's men, then I don't know what does. I'm not exactly cringing in
shame about this.
Anyway, I want to make a point about something that he just brought
up. In these forums, you get two general kinds of men's advocates
who, basically, endorse doing nothing:
First, you get the all-forgiving, male-feminist compromisers, who
would rather castrate themselves, and eat their own balls, for a
female audience, than to be seen endorsing one single negative
sentiment about sticking it back to women.
Then, you get the hilarious sexist/patriarchal non-compromising
would-be's who sweep aside every serious recommendation for getting
men back onto their own feet in their lives, and out of a defensive
posture. Their pretense is that they aren't gonna surrender AT ALL.
These boys are going to take it ALL back, and reestablish tradition.
All at once. They're gonna do it, too. You just watch. You can
nevertheless spot crucial capitulations within their ideas about
"tradition", but whenever that happens then - hey! - just up the
volume again!
The first group is protecting women's gains - to hell with men's
"whining". The second group isn't being serious - but want you to
believe that they are, for various reasons.
Now, IMO, these two types are both basically cowards who are
programmed mainly by fear of females, and fear of life.
After all, it's hard not to be. America hasn't been the land of the
free for generations now. It's been the Land of the Industrialist,
and of the Land of the Corporate Capitalist. The rest of the people
are just the serfs that make up its disingenuous feudal system. Dead,
is the American dream of the everyday guy: that he can invent or do
something that will make him rich, or self-sufficient. Everything is
just too fixed. He knows that his country has been hijacked, and that
all he can do to survive in it is to prostitute everything that he is
to one of the plutocrats who control the empire - who will never stop
seeking new ways to subordinate his entire psychology in order to make
certain that he never breaks his chains - economically, or otherwise.
So, the way that they've been taught to respond to the question of
issues is to surrender their role in them, and the justifying
philosophy for this is that of "mainstream" versus "extremists".
Those are the terms that moderates use for themselves and us. The non
politicized terms would actually be "moderates" versus "ideologues",
respectively.
Everyone who steps up for their own interests is "extremist".
Everyone who sits and becomes a spectator, who lets others make his
decisions for him, is "mainstream". The compromisers and the sexists
both subscribe to the do-nothing ideology of moderates and they both
disparage the ideologues who want to draw a realist line somewhere,
and put themselves back in charge of their own lives.
Now, the point is this: A compromiser, like Pigbarn, will clutch his
heart in mock alarm and call an ideologue an extremist for saying
something, like: "Women who break the law, should be prosecuted and
put in jail for it, to give men justice, and to set an example to keep
it from happening repeatedly. Men should prosecute"
That's a perfectly reasonable thing to want. It's a lot less
revolutionary than anything about establishing a new patriarchal order
- however tongue-in-cheek - but that's not a good enough concession
for his ilk. He, and they, still work to curry favor with the women's
movement by affording it whatever special status they can. All
criticism and ill-will of women who lie, cheat, steal, hurt, and kill
men must be resolved through forgiveness, but still bringing down the
penalty of law upon men who do these things to women.
When it comes to infringing upon female-privilege, these
counter-insurgents become instant idealists ...meanwhile, always
throwing Men the shit-droppings of "reality", with lots of shame to go
with it and to cement it into their minds.
> I didn't
> hear the guy claim to be IN Russia.
You might want to try reading every now and then. It helps. The guy
said he had been living in Russia for something like six months.
> I think he said he had a personal
> relationship with a Russian woman and he could live there. Turin as ALWAYS
> you pretend to know things you don't.
Why would ANYONE have to do something like that, when arguing with
you...?
> Do you know if I have ever been to
> Russia, perhaps walked in St. Peters square?
That's irrelevant. You already took your stance on this.
> As usual for you, you pretend
> knowledge about my personal life you don'ty have.
As usual, you're fouling to get out of a corner that you've backed
yourself into.
> 100% of your information
> about me comes from David Moore and much of that comes from Stacy Alexander.
So, if I want to know about you, then I go to Stacy Alexander, instead
of David Moore? Is that what you're saying...?
> > Probably all that it is, is the fact that we're talking about
> > Russians, and it's the old cold war mentality: Mindlessly bashing the
> > culture of a supposed enemy - like a jingo - as part of your Joe
> > Sixpack image ...Pangborn, for once in your dumb fucking life, just
> > shut up, sit back, and listen and learn from your betters. Your
> > generation was nothing more than a bunch of liars in it's prime, and
> > you garbage scows still haven't become more moral with the passing of
> > time.
>
> Hardly Turin. The cold war has no application here except being an
> invention of your twisted mind.
It's just a working theory, Conservative Bunghole. It's been known to
be true before.
> You jumped in here to pick a fight with me
> PERIOD!
Aww.... now, challenging the stupidity of someone - who always has the
inside story on everything - is "picking a fight" with him. ...When
do I begin my penance...?
> You attempt to place whole ideas in my position that are simply not there.
If so, then that's only because no whole idea is there in the position
of a moderate - let alone inside of his head.
> And YOU will never be my equal much less my better! GOT THAT LOSER?
...You're welcome.
- - -
The face of an angel, the charm of the devil:
krp
I would have gone for another American woman, but I got introduced to my
Cuban wife before that happened. Unlike you I have nothing against American
women, other than the mental problem radical feminism has inflicted on them
of hating being women. Feminism has been selling women that they need to be
men for more than a century. So it is more problematic finding a non
infected woman in America. Also I find that Cuban women are dogged in their
devotion to family, and being a honest wife. A Cuban woman doesn't love with
reservation or conflicted interests. She gives her heart and soul
completely. No games.
You try to sell Russian women. There are nice Russian women, but they
have their own agenda.issues. It still rates as the hard sell.
America has abandoned its values. That includes American men. ANy
remaining values, the ACLU has lawsuits in the wings to abolish! I think you
don't understand American women. They want the same things deep down, but we
have a society that is dominated by the ANTI-value crowd. Radical feminism
is in the business of breeding misery. It has sold women on a destructive
path, not just in America but all over the globe. It is virulently
anti-family, and steeped in visceral hatred for the male gender. Everything
they write drips with hatred for men. It oozes out of every pore of their
bodies. Most women reject that insanity, however, thanks to the ACLU and
extremist judges, they must live with it as you and I do. What is needed is
an effort to thow out activist judges who want to overturn America.
> There's no guarantee wherever you go, and I suppose you might
> find some decent American women here and there with strong
> values. But I wouldn't waste time finding water in the Sahara
> either. Sure, I might find an oasis, but I'd rather go to a
> climate where water is much more plentiful.
There are more good decent women in America by far than you realize.
There are the oasis' in even the Sahara. I am not sure it is quite that bad.
The whole society, including men, is that we have the ME generation running
things. If men have strong values why do they vote so relularly for those
who HATE those values? Why do they surrender?
I did not want a "dependant" in a wife. I did not want a docile porch
mat. I can assure you that Latin women are NEVER that! They do offer
something missing in many American women, the ability to give complete
unconditional love. But I dare their husband not to reciprocate in kind.
krp
> > > Pangbrain, you can drop the used-car bullshit with me, because I ain't
> > > - and never have been - impressed by your idiotic, overdone "Joe
> > > Sixpack" image. Alright? If you have one overriding fault in your
> > > ability to debate, then it's the fact that you constantly talk in
> > > soundbites and marketed phrases which attempt to wham the listener
> > > around with words, but which ultimately fall back on attempting to
> > > command his or her respect for what they say about what you stand for
> > > ...which is nothing more than a laugh, from where I'm sitting.
> > Turin you are and always have been a debate bully, you resort to
threats
> > and diversions. Stick with the subject.
> Sorry, old man, but the male-feminist, family-man's passive-aggressive
> technique still doesn't work on me. Nor, on the countless people who
> have witnessed your antics here for years, who may not understand it
> for what it is.
What you claim it is that is. And Turin note that few people buy your
crap.
> All that this sudden whimpering of yours amounts to is that you're
> intimidated by me, because you can't intimidate me. You're a
> psychotic who needs to browbeat people who you think are smaller than
> you. You know it. You know that I know it. You've always had this
> problem. That's why you want to change the subject.
Little boy the DAY you can intimidate ME wil be the day the Earth stops
rotating on its axis. Who is calling WHO names here? Who is the punk trying
to intimidate? Who ATTACKS every men's rights activist on the net and in the
movement? YOU! Look at what you write Turin and see who is trying to
browbeat who. You just can't handle those who stand up to you like any
playground bully.
> > > Like I said, I wasn't talking to you - because you wouldn't know. As
> > > usual, you're stacking your extremely limited anecdotal experience
> > > against the original poster's, which read to me like it had much more
> > > basis - and homework done - for it than your own (always exaggerated)
> > > claims.
> > Of course Turin, because I have always regarded you as nothing more
than
> > a very angy, heavy metal acid head punk.
> No. That's just your latest easy answer. You came up with that
> several months ago as a desperation tactic to counter the fact that my
> grass roots work in the Men's Movement also represents the growing
> backlash against the apologist phonies, like you, who have always
> collaborated with the women's syndicate.
What "grass roots work in the Men's Movement" Turin? Your endless
bitching on Usenet and attacking EVERYONE else who is REALLY in the
movement?
Turin you are merely a hate merchant. You hate women. You have men's
activists who have labored in the fields for decades. Where IS your
contribution of than in your venom? What ORGANIZATION do you have? NONE!
Followers? NONE! Grass roots? All you do is bullshit on Usenet and attack,
and your brand of bullshit isn't even good fertilizer. Nothing GROWS behind
you. Everything dies!
Turin you are JUST LIKE the radical feminists. Your agenda is
HATE........... You never BUILD UP you only TEAR DOWN..... So far I have yet
to see ONE constructive thing from you! Nothing to lift men or fathers
up.You even put down the Fathers 4 justice in the UK, yet THEY are moving
forward. Name ONE positive accomplishment you can claim? Turin we've been
here before, you're right. In the months I have challenegd you to name ONE
positive accomplishment that YOU as our resident loudmouth has EVER
accomplished to advance men's or fathers rights, YOU HAVE NOT AND CAN NOT!
ALl you are Turin is a VERY ANGRY noise maker on Usenet! A man of ZERO
capital! No substance at all. Just ANGER!