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Jesus or Allah - True Story

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Richard Cranium

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May 2, 2004, 10:40:16 AM5/2/04
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This is exactly as it was sent to me:

>
>
>
> This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well known leader
> in prison ministry.
>
> Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for
> maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training
> session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the
> Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of
> their belief systems.
>
> I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The
> Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a
> video.

> After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.
> When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:
> "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and
> clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the
> infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a
> command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's
> the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"
>
> There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he
> replied, "Non-believers!"
>
> I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers
> of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith
> so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"
>
> The _expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to
> that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the
> cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."
>
> I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope
> John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr.
> Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"
> The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have problem with being
> your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers
> to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah
> who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells
> me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with
> me?" You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in
> shame.
>
>
>
>
> Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the
> 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of
> dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's
> beliefs.

> I think everyone in the US should be required to read this, but with the
> liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way
> this will be widely publicized. Please pass this on to all your email
> contacts.
>
>

Frank de Groot

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May 2, 2004, 7:43:07 PM5/2/04
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"Richard Cranium" <du...@bunghole.com> wrote

> This is exactly as it was sent to me:


This story has been debunked.
There is a core of truth in it however, but it was not a discussion with a
muslim cleric, imam etc.
It was with an ordinary person.

Muslims hold Jesus in high esteem as a prophet from God and not only that,
they believe in his ressurection as well!

Richard Cranium

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May 2, 2004, 10:55:59 AM5/2/04
to

Thanks for the clarification. It does make a difference, but . . . .
why would an "ordinary person" express that viewpoint. Does such
garbage emanate from the mouths of imams & clerics? If the answer is
yes, then the world must recognize what is being spread and take
action.

Frank de Groot

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May 2, 2004, 8:07:22 PM5/2/04
to
"Richard Cranium" <du...@bunghole.com> wrote

>
> Thanks for the clarification. It does make a difference, but . . . .
> why would an "ordinary person" express that viewpoint.

Well, first of all this story is incorrect.
But it is possible that this muslim (it was a black man who converted to
islam) had a bad indoctrination.

> Does such
> garbage emanate from the mouths of imams & clerics?

Nope.
Note even from the most extreme fundamentalist ones.


The case is this:

- Muslims who live in a non-muslim country are bound by the "covenant of
security" and are not allowed to attack the state or its citizens in any
way. This is a religious doctrine. They get state-protection and in return
they do not bring that to shame.
You can see that those Madrid bombers did not have residence in Spain, for
ex.

Also, Christians have been living in muslim countries for ages w/o problems
(except to pay a tax).

But muslims can attack when they are themselves attacked.
Also, they like to spread their religion.
And they dislike the lifestyle of sex, drugs and crime.
They think it will lead to destruction and they thing that a more stricter
rule system will help keep people on the righteous path.

And they are very adamant about it and prepare to fight for their beliefs.
But when you leave them alone (and better not to let them immigrate into
your non-muslim country if you are bothered by their ways), then all will be
OK.

I lived in muslim countries and studied their religion and I was surprized
at their tolerance and hospitality and moderateness.
I even said things like: "Mohammed was a child rapist and robber" and I
didn't get killed :)
So much stuff we condemn is CULTURAL instead of religious there.
It is much more a matter of becoming richer and better educated, than that
Islam is to blame, really.

Islam has some very cool aspects (you will never EVER see anyone starve in a
muslim country, neither any homeless).
In fact I once tried to find a place to sleep in Cairo, somewhere outside. T
hey wouldn't let me. I got a night in a hotel for free, just some random
passers-by who arranged that. Islam is not as much a religion as it is a way
to organize society so as to make it very fair for everyone, and safe.

Rape and murder and theft simply won't be tolerated.
I never felt as safe as in muslim countries. (As a rabid non-muslim in
muslim countries!)


Frank de Groot

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May 2, 2004, 8:11:43 PM5/2/04
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"Frank de Groot" <francia...@online.REMOVE.no> wrote in message
news:l98lc.1295$Yc.2...@news4.e.nsc.no...

> I even said things like: "Mohammed was a child rapist and robber" and I
> didn't get killed :)

BTW they threatened that I could get killed for saying such things.
But then I explained that I had read that in a book.
Then it was OK.

And I don't think such things any more.
Mohammed was in fact a righteous person, as far as I can tell.
Especially to the culture at that time he was revolutionary pious.

He came to tell people they should not bury female babies alive and such
things.
He turned a barbaric society into a virtuous society.


Adhabuhu

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May 2, 2004, 11:13:29 AM5/2/04
to

"Frank de Groot" <francia...@online.REMOVE.no> wrote in message
news:CO7lc.1292$Yc.2...@news4.e.nsc.no...

Muslims do not believe in his "resurrection" as ressurection in christianity
means:
The act of rising from the dead or returning to life.

If you read carefully verse 4:157, Allah (swt) states that he was neither
killed nor crucified. And "they killed him not" was mentioned twice in this
verse. he was raised alive.

4:157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary,
the Messenger of Allah.";- But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but
so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of
doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a
surety they killed him not:-
158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power,
Wise;-

He (Jesus) still has A JOB TO FINISH ON EARTH AGAINST THOSE HE CALLED
"SERPENTS".


peter

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May 2, 2004, 11:15:25 AM5/2/04
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THE ISLAMIC SAVAGES ALWAYS TELL YOU WE BELIEVE AND RESPECT ALL THE PROPHETS. THIS IS ABOUT THE MOST PHONIEST THING IMAGINABLE. FIRST OFF THEY CONSIDER EVERY ONE A PROPHET. SECOND OFF THEY DON'T FOLLOW ONE WORD THOSE PROPHETS TAUGHT. THIRD OFF THEY CLAIM WHAT THOSE PROPHETS WROTE HAVE BEEN CORRUPTED. THEY HAVE NOT A CLUE WHAT THOSE PROPHETS WROTE SINCE THEY SAY IT WAS CORRUPTED. SO HOW CAN THEY BELIEVE AND RESPECT THE PROPHETS IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY SAID. IT IS JUST A PLOY TO GET OTHERS IN THEIR CULT TO FOLLOW THEIR SATANIC TEACHINGS.
 
 
 JUST IMAGINE A MAFIA GUY SAYING TO A RECRUIT, OH JOIN THE MAFIA WE BELIEVE IN ALL THE PROPHETS AND RESPECT THEM DEARLY.
 
PETER
 
If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence.
If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.
 
 

peter

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May 2, 2004, 2:08:31 PM5/2/04
to
"Muslims who live in a non-muslim country are bound by the "covenant of
security" and are not allowed to attack the state or its citizens in any
way. This is a religious doctrine. They get state-protection and in return
 
WHAT THIS GUY SAYS IS A DAMN LIE. " WHAT THIS MEANS UNTILL THEY GAIN STRENGTH THAN THEY CAN ATTACK.
 
"You can see that those Madrid bombers did not have residence in Spain, for
ex."
 
YOU CAN TELL ITS ALL A LIE SINCE THE MADRID BOMBERS DID HAVE RESIDENCY IN SPAIN AND SOME HAD BUSINESSES THERE. SO ITS ALL A LIE TO PROPAGATE ISLAM.

--
PETER
 
If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence.
If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.
 
 
"Richard Cranium" <du...@bunghole.com> wrote
>
> Thanks for the clarification.  It does make a difference, but . . . .
> why would an "ordinary person" express that viewpoint.

Well, first of all this story is incorrect.
But it is possible that this muslim (it was a black man who converted to
islam) had a bad indoctrination.

> Does such
> garbage emanate from the mouths of imams & clerics?

Nope.
Note even from the most extreme fundamentalist ones.


The case is this:

- Muslims who live in a non-muslim country are bound by the "covenant of
security" and are not allowed to attack the state or its citizens in anyYou can see that those Madrid bombers did not have residence in Spain, for

peter

unread,
May 2, 2004, 2:09:26 PM5/2/04
to

"He came to tell people they should not bury female babies alive and such
things."
 
ANOTHER LIE OF ISLAM

--
PETER
 
If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence.
If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.
 
 

Ali

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May 2, 2004, 2:56:40 PM5/2/04
to
Assalam au alaikum or Peace be with you!

How will Allah Almighty Judge both Muslims and non-Muslims?

As I read the Noble Quran almost everyday, I always gain more and more
respect to this Wonderful True Religion of GOD. Humans today had so
corrupted the beauty of believing in the One True Living GOD, that
they no longer became certain of which path to take. Humans today are
full of confusion and fear because many of them are apart from Islam.
That is why we are having continuous religious and territorial battles
and brutal blood shed throughout the world.

What is the Wisdom of Islam?

Islam is a very simple religion. Islam simply means submitting
yourself in peace to the One True Living GOD:

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He
begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.
(The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

"Then Praise be to Allah, Lord of the heavens and Lord of the earth-
Lord and Cherisher of all the worlds! To Him be Glory throughout the
heavens and the earth: and He is Exalted in Power, Full of Wisdom!.
(The Noble Quran, 45:36-37)"

"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to
common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah;
that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among
ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn
back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to
Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"

The GOD of Islam is the GOD of everything He created. There is no
middle man between the Creation and the Creator; "It was We Who
Created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him:
for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein. (The Noble Quran,
50:16)"

"When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them):
I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let
them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That
they may walk in the right way. (The Noble Quran, 2:186)"

Allah Almighty knows what's in the heart and will judge us (all
humans, Muslims and non-Muslims) according to our intentions:

Let us look at Noble Verses 26:88-91 "The Day whereon neither wealth
nor sons will avail, But only he (will prosper) that brings to God a
sound heart; to the righteous, the Garden will be brought near, and to
those straying in Evil, the Fire will be placed in full view."

Allah Almighty created all mankind with different races, mentality and
beliefs; "O mankind! [this includes all races and all nations] We
created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you
into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other. Verily the most
honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you.
And Allah has full knowledge and is well-acquainted. (The Noble Quran,
49:13)" Throughout the Noble Quran, Allah Almighty sometimes talks
directly to Muslims, to non Muslims and to all mankind (both Muslims
and non Muslims). This by itself means a lot to me as a human being.
It tells me that Allah Almighty's Book (The Noble Quran) is not just
meant for Muslims only. Anyone can reach his Creator through Islam.

It also tells me that anyone can gain the Love of Allah Almighty,
which would eventually lead him to know His Creator and end up in
paradise under Him: "It is He Who has Created you [humans]; and of you
[humans] are some that are unbelievers, and some that are believers:
And Allah sees well all that ye do. He has created the heavens and the
earth in just portions, and has given you [humans] shape, and made
your shapes beautiful: and to Him is the final Goal. He knows what is
in the heavens and on earth; and He knows what ye conceal and what ye
reveal: Allah Knows well the (secrets) of (all) hearts. (The Noble
Quran, 64:2-4)"

He knows well that we need Him, and that we are nothing without Him
and His guidance; "O ye men! It is ye that have need of Allah: but
Allah is the One free of all wants, worthy of all praise. If He so
pleased, He could blot you out and bring in a new creation, Nor is
that difficult for Allah. (The Noble Quran, 35:15-17)"

Allah Almighty listens to our prayers; He is close and listens!

"When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them):
I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let
them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That
they may walk in the right way. (The Noble Quran, 2:186)"

How will Allah Almighty Judge the non-Muslims? Should a person be a
Muslim first to be accepted in Paradise by Allah Almighty?

It is important to know that in the Noble Quran, Allah Almighty will
admit to Paradise those from the Muslims and non-Muslims who He loves
because of their righteous work and belief. Let us look at the
following Noble Verses:

"O mankind! [this includes all races and all nations] We created you
from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations
and tribes, that ye may know each other. Verily the most honoured of
you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. And Allah has
full knowledge and is well-acquainted. (The Noble Quran, 49:13)"

"Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book [Jews and
Christians] are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse
the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in
adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is
right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in
(all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. (The Noble
Quran, 3:113-3:114)"

The above Noble Verses clearly speak about the righteous non-Muslims
who believe in One GOD Almighty and do righteousness and will have
their Great Reward and enter Paradise. There is no mention of them
must first believe in the Noble Quran's Revelations and in Prophet
Muhammad peace be upon him as GOD's Messenger to be accepted to
Paradise.

My definition of the word "Muslim": Please be advised that the
following statement of mine is only from my personal knowledge and
beliefs that I built from learning Islam:

"I believe that the definition of "Muslim" is not someone who believes
in Allah Almighty and Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, and the
Noble Quran only. The definition of "Muslim" is someone who believes
in the Oneness of GOD Almighty. This makes any Unitarian a "Muslim".
This also makes the definition of "Islam" not limited to believing in
Allah Almighty, the Noble Quran, and Prophet Muhammad peace be upon
him only. I believe that the definition of "Islam" is the belief in
One GOD Almighty. This could be outside the scope of the Noble Quran
and Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him."

To support my statement above, let us look at the following Noble
Verse:

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He
begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.
(The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to
common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah;
that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among
ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn
back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to
Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"

Also, Jesus peace be upon him taught his followers to be "Muslims" 600
years before the birth of Muhammad peace be upon him: "And behold! I
inspired the Disciples to have faith in Me [Allah] and Mine Messenger
[Jesus]; they said, ''We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we
bow to Allah as Muslims.' (The Noble Quran, 5:111)"

Noble Verse 5:111 seems to agree perfectly with Jesus' teachings in
the Bible's Hebrew New Testament in Luke 6:40 "A student is not above
his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his
teacher."

Let us look at what Jesus said in Luke 6:40 in the language of Aramaic
translated into Hebrew below:

"Ein talmeed na'leh 'al rabbo; shekken kal adam she'MUSHLAM yihyeh
k'rabbo."

Taken from the Aramaic bible society.

Note: Aramaic and Hebrew are read from right to left, which is
apposite to English.

Translation in English: "No student can be above his teacher, but
everyone that is a MUSLIM, can be as his teacher."

Important Note: The Hebrew word "Mushlam" comes from the root "Sh L
M". "Shalom" which comes from the same root means "peace". The Arabic
word "Muslim" comes from the root "S L M". "Salam" means "peace".
"Salem" means "safe". Also taken from the Aramaic bible society.

Every religion in this universe started with a Prophet of GOD
Almighty. Judaism started with Moses peace be upon him, Christianity
started with Jesus peace be upon him and so on. Islam on the other
hand did not start with Muhammad peace be upon him. It simply started
with the creation of Adam peace be upon him. The minute the man of
mankind was created, the beautiful religion of Allah Almighty Islam
was too created for mankind. Islam is a religion that started with
Adam and ended with Muhammad peace be upon them. Every religion of
Allah Almighty in between such as Judaism and Christianity is part of
Islam.
This is very important to know, because now we can see that the people
who believed in the One Living True Undivided GOD Almighty before the
birth of Muhammad peace be upon him were also Muslims. It is essential
to not confuse the definition of the word "Muslim". A Muslim is one
who believes in the religion of Islam, and as I mentioned above, the
word "Islam" means submitting yourself in peace to Allah Almighty.

Important Note: It is up to Allah Almighty to decide who goes to
Heaven and who goes to Hell. But as we've seen in the above Noble
Verses, Allah Almighty doesn't just care about our faith, but also
about our good deeds and hearts.

All good righteous Unitarians (those who believe in One GOD Almighty)
are Muslims according to Islam. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
taught us that faith in One GOD is the most important and fundamental
principle. It is the heart of Islam and the mainspring of its power.
All other beliefs, commands and laws of Islam stand firm on this
foundation. All of them receive strength from this source. Take it
away, and there is nothing left of Islam.

One of the beauties of Islam is that when an individual becomes a
Unitarian, this wonderful religion of GOD (Islam) comes natural to him
by the will of Allah Almighty; "...Such are among the Signs of God: He
whom God, guides is rightly guided; but he whom God leaves to stray,-
for him wilt thou find no protector to lead him to the Right Way. (The
Noble Quran, 18:17)".

It comes in such a miraculous way that it creates a direct connection
between Allah Almighty and the individual; "...Allah has endeared the
faith to you, Has made it beautiful in your hearts, and He Has made
hateful to you unbelief, wickedness, and rebellion: such indeed are
those who walk in righteousness- A grace and favour from Allah; and
Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom. (The Noble Quran, 49:7-8)"

Once that connection is created, then the new Muslim will naturally
avoid unbelief and wickedness and stay in the Path of Allah Almighty.
The Muslim's faith will then only increase and strengthen:

"For, believers are those who, when Allah is mentioned, feel a tremor
in their hearts, and when they hear His Signs rehearsed, find their
faith strengthened, and put (all) their trust in their Lord. (The
Noble Quran, 8:2)"

"Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in
Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a guide and
glad tidings to Muslims. (The Noble Quran, 16:102)"

"It is He [Allah] Who sent down tranquillity into the hearts of the
believers, that they may add faith to their faith- For to Allah belong
the forces of the heavens and the earth; and Allah is Full of
Knowledge and Wisdom. (The Noble Quran, 48:4)"

As long as the person believes in "One GOD" and does Righteousness,
then he should be ok:

"God forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He
forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with
God is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed. (The Noble Quran, 4:48)"

"Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to
God, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For
God did take Abraham for a friend. (The Noble Quran, 4:125)"

all other forms of using other Creations of GOD as mediators between
yourself and GOD Almighty are not accepted by Allah Almighty. This
supports my statement above about a "Muslim" is one who believes in
One GOD only.

"They say: 'Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To
salvation).' Say thou: 'Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham
the True, and he joined not gods with God.' (The Noble Quran, 2:135)"

"Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith,
and bowed his will to God's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods
with God. (The Noble Quran, 3:67)"

The "true in Faith" or the "Religion of Abraham" that GOD Almighty
accepts is as I said, believing in One True Living GOD Almighty. This
is the main point of Islam, and the belief that would ultimately guide
the individual to Salvation.

So how will we be judged at Judgement Day?

Allah Almighty is quite clear in the Noble Quran about how He will
judge us in the Day of Judgement.

Let us look at Noble Verse 10:61 "In whatever business thou mayest be,
and whatever portion thou mayest be reciting from the Quran, and
whatever deed ye (mankind) may be doing, We are witnesses thereof when
ye are deeply engrossed therein. Nor is hidden from thy Lord (so much
as) the weight of an atom on the earth or in heaven. And not the least
and not the greatest of these things but are recorded in a clear
record." In this Noble Verse, we see Allah Almighty clearly describing
to us that every single act even an atom of a thing we do in life from
good and bad will be recorded in our records.

Let us look at Noble Verse 34:3 "The unbelievers say, 'Never to us
will come the Hour': Say, 'Nay! but most surely, by my Lord, it will
come upon you; by Him Who knows the unseen, from Whom is not hidden
the least little atom in the heavens or on earth: Nor is there
anything less than that, or greater, but is in the record
perspicuous.'" Here we see in this Noble Verse Allah Almighty
responding to the unbelievers when they approached our beloved Prophet
Muhammad peace be upon him. Allah Almighty's response was that every
atom of thing they do can not be hidden and is recorded in the record
perspicuous.

Let us look at Noble Verse 34:22 "Say: 'Call upon other (gods) whom ye
fancy, besides God: They have no power,- not the weight of an atom,-
in the heavens or on earth: No (sort of) share have they therein, nor
is any of them a helper to God.'" In this Noble Verse Allah Almighty
claims that no god but He will do the Judgement in the Day of
Judgement. All of the idols and images that people worshiped and still
do will not take part of any Judgement. They will be worthless.

Let us look at Noble Verses 99:7-8 "Then shall anyone who has done an
atom's weight of good, see it! And anyone who has done an atom's
weight of evil, shall see it." Everything we do in life will be
recorded for us. For every atom of good we do in life we shall see it,
and for every atom of evil we do in life we shall see it also. And
Allah Almighty will ultimately make His decision on whether you will
make it to heaven or will make it to hell.

So am I suggesting that there is no need to believe in the Noble
Quran? Or there is no need to try to spread Islam to Unitarians such
as the Jews?

Absolutely not! As a Muslim who believes in Allah Almighty and all of
His Revelations, I must believe with all my heart and mind that the
Noble Quran is the Seal of all the Revelations that came from Allah
Almighty, and it must be followed. Allah Almighty clearly said: "The
Religion before God is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the
People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each
other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of
God, God is swift in calling to account. (The Noble Quran, 3:19)"

But the religion of Islam is not just limited to the Noble Quran's
Revelations. Islam started from Adam and ended with Muhammad peace be
upon them. Islam was perfected or finished with the Revelations of the
Noble Quran: "...This day have I perfected your religion for you,
completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your
religion....(The Nobel Quran, 5:3)"

Islam as I mentioned above existed before Prophet Muhammad peace be
upon him and ended with him: "The same religion has He established for
you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by
inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses,
and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and
make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than God,
hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. God chooses to Himself
those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).
(The Noble Quran, 42:13)"

My suggestion: What I am suggesting is that when a Muslim is asked
about who from Mankind will Allah Almighty admit to Paradise and whom
He won't admit, he should say "Only He the Almighty Knows, because He
will decide based on the person's belief and good deeds on whether to
admit him to Heaven or to Hell. There is no set rule on how the
Judgement will happen. Every individual will have his own special and
unique case that Allah Almighty will consider."

That is why Allah Almighty said in Noble Verses 99:7-8 "Then shall
anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it! And anyone who
has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it."
==============================================
What is a Muslim?

Simple: To be a Muslim you must:
1) Believe in a One God that is all powerful, and the Creator of
everything there is.

2) Believe that God has contacted us via messages by His messengers:
Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and finally Mohammed. In addition to many
others.

3) Believe that the Quran is God's literal word. Meaning each word
comes from Him. That can be verified by a detailed study of the Quran
and what it implies. One gets the impression that no human being could
have possibly written such a book.

4) Believe that God will judge us after death based on our deeds and
the choices we make in life.

5) Believe in doing good and avoiding evil to the best of your
ability.These are the basic beliefs that you must have to be a Muslim.
According to this, all prophets conveyed the same message (including
Moses and Jesus, who the Quran says was human). There are many details
to practicing Islam, like how to pray and how to fast, the
implementation of those make you a better Muslim.
========================================
The Last Sermon of Prophet Muhammad
May the Mercy and Peace of Almighty God be upon him

This sermon was delivered on the Ninth Day of the month of Dhul-Hijjah
in the Tenth Year of the Hijrah (i.e. the Prophet's forced migration
from Mecca to Medina) in the 'Uranah Valley of Arafat, near Mecca.
After praising and thanking Almighty God (Arabic: Allah), the Prophet,
peace be upon him, said:

"O People lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this
year I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am
saying very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE
PRESENT HERE TODAY.O People just as you regard this month, this day
and this city as sacred, so regard the life and property of every
Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their
rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember
that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that he will indeed reckon
your deeds.
ALMIGHTY GOD has forbidden you to take interest (Arabic: riba),
therefore all financial obligations involving interest shall
henceforth be waived. Your capital is yours to keep. You will neither
inflict nor suffer any inequity. Almighty God has judged that there
shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn 'Abd
al-Muttalib (the Prophet's
uncle) be waived. Every right arising out of homicide in pre-Islamic
days is henceforth waived and the first such right that I waive is
that arising from the murder of Rabiah ibn al- Harithibn.

O men, the unbelievers indulge in tampering with the calendar in order
to make permissible that which God forbade, and to forbid that which
God has made permissible. With Almighty God, the months are twelve in
number.Four of them are holy, three of these are successive and one
occurs singly between the months of Jumada and Shaban.

Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope
of that he will be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of
following him in small things.

O People it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your
women,but they also have right over you. Remember that you have taken
them as your wives only under God's trust and with His permission. If
they abide by your rights, then to them belong the right to be fed and
clothed in kindness.Treat your women well and be kind to them for they
are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that
they do not make friends with anyone of whom you do not approve, as
well as never to be unchaste.

O People, listen to me in ernest, worship ALMIGHTY GOD, say your five
daily prayers fast during month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in
charity (Arabic: Zakat) and perform Hajj if you can afford to.

All of mankind comes from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority
over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an
Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor does a black
have any superiority over a white --- except by piety and good action.
Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the
Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a
Muslim which belogs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and
willingly. Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. Remember one
day you will meet Almighty God and answer for your deeds. So beware
and do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

O People, NO PROPHET OR MESSENGER WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH
WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand the
words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things: the QUR'AN
and my SUNNAH,and if you follow these you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those
to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than
those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O GOD, that I have
conveyed Your message to Your people."
==============================================
letter of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) to the monks of a St. Catherine
monastery in Mt. Sinai. The letter is cited below

*"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those
who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.

*Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them,
because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against
anything that displeases them.

*No compulsion is to be on them.

*Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their
monks from their monasteries.

*No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to
carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses.

*Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and
disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure
charter against all that they hate.

*No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.

*The Muslims are to fight for them.

*If a female Christian is married to a muslim, it is not to take place
without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her
church to pray.

*Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented
from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.

*No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the
Last Day (end of the world)." Peace
=======================================
The Beauty of ISLAM.

THE VEIL:

Beauty in the eyes of the beholder

- A scientific analysis

Written by: Sarah Hussein Shah

Researched by: Ali Rahim

In today's society, many Muslim women (and men) feel that wearing the
hijab is unnecessary and burdensome. Truth be told, it is now more
imperative than ever before. Morality within society is at an all time
low, while indecency has increased ten fold.

Contrary to popular belief, In Islam, men are also required to dress
modestly and further more they are obliged to lower their gaze. In the
presence of women, men are to be covered from the chest to the knees.
Man's clothes should not be tight or revealing, therefore clothing
such as vests and tight t-shirts, along with rather close fit trousers
does not constitute modest dress. If a man's body is a cause of
attraction for women, then he must cover accordingly.

This article, though, will focus upon the women's hijab and related
issues. We will briefly introduce the philosophy behind the hijab,
examine the social and psychological consequences of not adorning the
modest dress and shall analyze the many benefits of wearing the veil.

Philosophy behind the Hijab."˜Hijab" literally means a "curtain" that
is to be placed between a man and woman who are non-mahram.

It is quite obvious that the physical structure of a man differs from
that of a woman's, and men and women respond differently to each
other. Generally, men are more physically attracted to women than
women are to men. It is the abuse of this strong desire that leads to
the many ills of society.

In western society, especially, many believe that a woman's beauty is
to bring pleasure to others and should be displayed in public. A
common phrase we hear is: "God has given us beauty for a reason, so
why cover it up?? Such practices are backward and outdated!"

Women have a tendency to show off their beauty more than men, they
also spend more time in beautifying themselves. Some do this to gain
the attention of men; while others do it for competition amongst
themselves. Women in this type of society are taught from an early age
that their worth is proportional to their attractiveness, and these
women are compelled to follow pre defined standards of beauty, which
are set by the male counterparts of society. Let us take for example
the "hot" fashion designers of today - the majority of them are men.
Lustful men, such as these designers, wish to have the beauty of women
displayed in public for their own pleasure and financial gain. Every
year, the clothes that women wear become more and more revealing. The
female body is used in advertisements to grab the attention of the
public, and the limits of these advertisements are pushed to keep in
line with competition. People are taught that there is nothing wrong
with this type of behavior - this is the "norm" in society. Clearly,
such a norm is the abuse of the moral rights of women.

Thus, many young women of today focus on their physical
attractiveness. Some will go as far as starving themselves to obtain
the "Barbie doll figure," which they see in the media repeatedly –
it's drilled into their minds that this is the body they should have
in order to have importance in society. Women's intellect, character
and personality are disregarded. Women are made into "sexual objects"
during the dating game in western society. A loving relationship can
exist, but oftentimes it is the physical aspect of the relationship
that keeps the man interested - this is degrading to women. When the
man is tired of one piece of "artwork," he will simply move onto the
next.

The Hijab & Society. The following Qur'anic verse makes clear why the"
curtain" of hijab is necessary.

O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that
they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when
abroad): That is most convenient, that they should be known (as such)
and not molested. And God is Oft-Forgiving and Most Merciful (Quran
33:59).

This verse was revealed in Medina for the protection of women after a
man provocatively harassed a Muslim woman because of the
revealing clothes she was wearing. This type of harassment exists
today, especially in western society where women believe it is a form
of freedom to wear such revealing clothes.

Sexual harassment can take place anywhere, such as at school or in the
workplace. In the USA, cases of sexual harassment amass to a
multi-billion dollar industry for law firms. The most serious and
severe form of harassment is rape.

According to the U.S. National Institute of Justice, the number of
rape and sexual assault victims in1992 was estimated at 1.1 million.

According to the U.S. Department of Justice, nearly 99% of the
offenders described in single-victim incidents are male.

In a study surveying more than 6,000 students at 32 colleges and
universities in the U.S.

1 in 4 women had been victims of rape or attempted rape,

84% of those raped knew their attacker.

42% of the rape victims told no one about the assault, and only 5%
reported it to the police,

38% of the women who had been raped were 14, 15 or 16 years old at
the time of the assault.

A sad but true fact is that most of the rape victims knew their
attackers personally, dispelling the myth that strangers who are
social outcasts perpetrate rape. What exactly were these rapists
after? Many say that their victims wanted to copulate, but the victim
needed encouragement because she was too shy. Her clothes spoke on her
behalf. When a woman wears provocative revealing clothing, she may be
sending out unwanted signals, to the wrong kind of people. Even if the
message is a clear," no," the revealing attire of the woman can only
encourage the rapist. When the issue of the victim's attire is brought
up, many respond by saying, "No one deserves to get raped." This is
very true. But does a person who leaves all his money and other
valuables exposed, deserve to get robbed? Of course not. However,
leaving something valuable out in the open can only encourage others
to try and obtain it. No one deserves to get robbed (of their
dignity), but it happens anyway. Research has shown that victims of
sexual harassment usually begin to wear more modest attire. They
become more protective of their valuables.

To further illustrate the above we will briefly analyze the issue of
pornography, which is rampant in Western society. Pornography is an
extreme form of degrading and violating women. Extensive research over
the past few decades has shown that even the lightest form of
pornography increases vile attitudes in men. Effects include the
following: Desire to rape, an opinion which considers women as sex
objects and nothing more, and an increase in the desire to commit
sexual acts with people other than grown women.

The Hijab; A divine solution to social ills. Islam wishes to raise the
moral standards of society. The hijab aids this by discouraging
negative temptations. The focus is not on the woman's appearance;
rather the focus is on qualities such as her intelligence and moral
character (and her personality) Hijab helps to build a strong family
where the fear of adultery is non-existent, and it protects women from
molestation. A healthier society is created.

A woman with hijab, for instance, can work freely in society, knowing
that she won't be gawked at or harassed. She knows that she was hired
for a job because of her intelligence, not her beauty. She knows her
personal worth, and she has high self-esteem because of this. The
rules of Allah (swt) are in complete harmony with the innate nature of
human beings. Deep down in their subconscious, humans have moral
disposition:

By the soul, and the proportion and order given to it, and it's
enlightenment as to its wrong and its right Truly he succeeds that
purifies it, and he fails that corrupts it (Quran 91:7-10).

One may think that everyone in the western world sees women who wear
the headscarf as backwards. To be dictated by society, on what to wear
and how to look, is a great form of oppression. To wear the headscarf
in is a commendable act of courageousness, admiration and freedom.

Hijab however is not simply a headscarf. Hijab constitutes modest
dress, from head to toe. Headscarf worn with revealing clothes that
looks like a second skin is inappropriate. A headscarf covering only
half of the hair is simply a demonstration of sheer ignorance. Such
attire goes against the laws of Islam and the spirit of the hijab; it
makes a mockery of the hijab and thus, a mockery of Islam, to those
who observe

Often, some women use the excuse that "it is too hot and cumbersome"
to wear hijab. Recognition of committing sin, and failure to act upon
it constitutes a desire to adopt the correct practice; the Shaytan is
the obstruction to the path of salvation. The heat of this world is
but a drop in the ocean, compared to the heat in the hellfire, and the
heat of the heavens cannot be compared to the heat of this world.

Those women, who say that they will not be able to attract a man for
marriage due to their hijab, need not worry. Any husband who desires
his wife's beauty to be displayed for all to see in public is not
worthy of the gift of marriage. A genuine suitor however is permitted
to see his perspective spouse without her hijab, for Imam Jafar
as-Sadiq (as) said:" If one of you sought a woman for marriage, it is
better if you see that woman, if your look is one of a suitor."

It is up to us as servants of Allah (swt) and followers of the Ahlul
Bayt (as) to uphold what is right and commanded of us, and refrain
from wrongdoings. When we go, deep into our hearts, and ask ourselves
if whether our actions are right or wrong, indeed, the truth will be
so clearly obvious to us. Let not the sacrifices of those who have
fought for ISLAM and its followers be forgotten, let not the teachings
of Kerbela be dis-guarded, let us not succumb to the pressures of
today, let us use Kerbela as our example and fight for what we
believe. Let us never forget that "Every day is Ashura, and every day
is Kerbela." Each day we shall fight for Islam, and in each land we
will witness a fight for Islam. We as Muslim sisters have an
opportunity to propagate our religion, by simply observing our attire
let this wonderful opportunity not go to waste.

Even those in the west, recognize the importance of the hijab. Never
will you see Mary, the mother of Jesus (as) (and other pious Biblical
women), unveiled. The hijab gives these pious women an aura of
respect, honour and dignity, as the hijab will give to all the women
who choose to wear it and are deserving of it. Let us be prime
examples of Muslims, demonstrate not our beauty, but our intelligence
and the divine beauty of ISLAM.
=======================================
Testimonies of Women and Men who have Embraced Islam
http://www.thetruereligion.org/converts.htm


An invitation to the truth
http://www.hyahya.org/

MUSLIM SCIENTISTS, MATHEMATICIANS AND ASTRONOMERS
Beore European Renaissance, 700 - 1500 C.E
http://cyberistan.org/islamic/


Quran simple search
http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/simple.html

Quran by Yusuf Ali, Shakir, Pickthall
http://www.al-quran.org.uk/

Let me suggest you some books on Islam.

1) Qu'ran commentary by Muhammad Asad
2) "The Life of Muhammad" by M. Haykal
3) "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Islam.by Yahiya Emerick"
4)"Islam Between East and West" by Alija Ali Izetbegovic"
5) "Islam (2nd ed.)" by Fazlur Rahman

Islimic message board below

A Religion of Peace and Justice
http://forums.delphiforums.com/islamispeace/start

Islamic Discussions
http://forums.delphiforums.com/Islamic1/start

Islam
http://forums.about.com/n/main.asp?webtag=ab-islam&nav=start&prettyurl=%2Fab%2Dislam%2Fstart

$Discount$

unread,
May 2, 2004, 4:10:42 PM5/2/04
to
> Muslims hold Jesus in high esteem as a prophet from God and not only that,
> they believe in his ressurection as well!
>
You are a fucking liar. We all know the truth thanks to this:

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/ltr.html

$Discount$

unread,
May 2, 2004, 4:11:45 PM5/2/04
to

$Discount$

unread,
May 2, 2004, 4:12:37 PM5/2/04
to
Foolish nonsense. Fuck off:

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/ltr.html

$Discount$

unread,
May 2, 2004, 4:13:48 PM5/2/04
to
Islam is insane. You are insane:

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/ltr.html

$Discount$

unread,
May 2, 2004, 4:14:49 PM5/2/04
to
> THE ISLAMIC SAVAGES ALWAYS TELL YOU WE BELIEVE AND RESPECT ALL THE
PROPHETS. THIS IS ABOUT THE MOST PHONIEST THING IMAGINABLE. FIRST OFF
THEY CONSIDER EVERY ONE A PROPHET. SECOND OFF THEY DON'T FOLLOW ONE
WORD THOSE PROPHETS TAUGHT. THIRD OFF THEY CLAIM WHAT THOSE PROPHETS
WROTE HAVE BEEN CORRUPTED. THEY HAVE NOT A CLUE WHAT THOSE PROPHETS
WROTE SINCE THEY SAY IT WAS CORRUPTED. SO HOW CAN THEY BELIEVE AND
RESPECT THE PROPHETS IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY SAID. IT IS JUST A
PLOY TO GET OTHERS IN THEIR CULT TO FOLLOW THEIR SATANIC TEACHINGS.
>
Islam is insane:

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/ltr.html

PTL3

unread,
May 2, 2004, 7:04:37 PM5/2/04
to

Ali <seek_knowledge...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:237b9b09.04050...@posting.google.com...

> How will Allah Almighty Judge both Muslims and non-Muslims?

Like this motherfuc*er, and you know it:

2:89-90 The curse of Allah is on the unbelievers... humiliating is the
punishment.

> As I read the Noble Quran almost everyday, I always gain more and more
> respect to this Wonderful True Religion of GOD. Humans today had so
> corrupted the beauty of believing in the One True Living GOD, that
> they no longer became certain of which path to take. Humans today are
> full of confusion and fear because many of them are apart from Islam.
> That is why we are having continuous religious and territorial battles
> and brutal blood shed throughout the world.
>

Yeah blood being shed because we are "apart" from Islam.
We heard you the first time.
We get it.
If only you knew.


[22:19-22] But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out
for them, boiling fluid will be poured down their heads. Whereby that which
is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are
hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from
thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the
doom of burning.

[44:40-49] ..The fruit of the Zaqqum tree shall be the unbelievers's fruit.
Like dregs of oil, like scalding water, it shall simmer in his belly. A
voice will cry: 'Seize him and drag him into the depths of Hell. Then pour
out scalding water over his head, saying: "Taste this, illustrious and
honourable man! This is the punishment which you have doubted."

[69:30-37] We shall say: 'Lay hold of him and bind him. Burn him in the fie
of Hell, then fasten him with a chain seventy cubits long. For he did not
believe Allah the tremendous, and urged not on the feeding of the wretched.
Today he shall be friendless here; filth shall be his food, the filth which
sinners eat...

Albertadude

unread,
May 2, 2004, 8:54:53 PM5/2/04
to

"Frank de Groot" <francia...@online.REMOVE.no> wrote in message
news:l98lc.1295$Yc.2...@news4.e.nsc.no...

Uh you must be thinking of something else besides Islam........Islam is
brutal, intolerant
hateful, murderous, and woman hating to its core.........I would suggest a
little more
honest study of Islam then your politically correct rendering....

From a laughing Darul Harbian
>
>
>


Frank de Groot

unread,
May 3, 2004, 1:19:00 PM5/3/04
to
> "Frank de Groot" <francia...@online.REMOVE.no> wrote in message

> Uh you must be thinking of something else besides Islam........Islam is
> brutal, intolerant hateful, murderous, and woman hating to its
core.........


Hm, then why the death penalty for rape?

And, why is a woman allowed to keep all her posessions in marriage (it is
not shared with the husband)?

And why is "I do not get sexually satisfied" a legal reason for divorce (the
woman can get a divorce when she is not happy with the husband's sex).

And wy is it that 4 wives are only allowed when all can be taken care of
both materially and emotionally?

Etc.

It's not as women-hating as you think.

In western countries, women are forced to leave their little children and
work, sometimes forced to join the army, sometimes forced into prostitution
(poverty leaves them no other choice).

Ali Baba

unread,
May 13, 2004, 12:26:55 AM5/13/04
to

"Frank de Groot" <francia...@online.REMOVE.no> wrote in message
news:CO7lc.1292$Yc.2...@news4.e.nsc.no...

It's just His "Love your neighbor" shit they find so very foreign.


Ali Baba

unread,
May 13, 2004, 12:35:16 AM5/13/04
to
Then why are so many terrorists claiming to believe as Muslims? Doesn't the
baby killing fetish and running drugs to support their violence habit kind
of rub "real" Muslims the wrong way? And it seems a little inconvenient for
all the terrorists to have to travel across country borders to get their
baby-killing fixes (though it should help us find them and kill them more
easily).

Glad to hear you totally insulted your Muslim acquaintances and were not
killed. The rest of the world stands to have our heads sawed off simply
because we are not sub-human, mutant terrorist baby-killers..

"Frank de Groot" <francia...@online.REMOVE.no> wrote in message
news:l98lc.1295$Yc.2...@news4.e.nsc.no...

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