Copperhead snakes in Southern Oregon?
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
that there are copperhead snakes around Klamath Falls and other parts
of Southern Oregon.
To my knowledge I've never heard of such a thing; nor have I come
across any records suggesting that the copperhead lives in southern
Oregon. My best guess is that there's a local variant of rattlesnake
that folks are calling "copperhead" that she's referring to, not the
actual Eastern copperhead (she also mentioned that there are
sidewinders down there--hokay, I thought they lived in the Southwest,
but that's a bit more likely than copperheads).
Then again, given her apparent level of (non) horsemanship, I may be
giving her too much benefit of the doubt.
Anyone else here heard of such things? Larry? Don? Derek? Chris?
Curious minds wanna know.
jrw
Kean Stump
Joyce Reynolds-Ward <j...@aracnet.com> wrote:
>One of the lesser lights on rec.equestrian is swearing up and down
>that there are copperhead snakes around Klamath Falls and other parts
>of Southern Oregon.
>
Nope. Rattlesnakes, yes, but not copperheads. My grandfather
killed the first rattler of the summer a few weeks ago, out by
Algoma. Stepped off his back porch, and there it was.
Kean
--------
Informix doesn't pay me to have official opinions.
Don Baccus
Joyce Reynolds-Ward <j...@aracnet.com> wrote:
>One of the lesser lights on rec.equestrian is swearing up and down
>that there are copperhead snakes around Klamath Falls and other parts
>of Southern Oregon.
...
>Anyone else here heard of such things? Larry? Don? Derek? Chris?
My Peterson's "Western Reptiles and Amphibians" doesn't even
list copperheads in its index...draw your own conclusion :)
--
- Don Baccus, Portland OR <dho...@pacifier.com>
Nature photos, on-line guides, at http://donb.photo.net
Derek R. Larson
Joyce Reynolds-Ward <j...@aracnet.com> wrote:
>One of the lesser lights on rec.equestrian is swearing up and down
>that there are copperhead snakes around Klamath Falls and other parts
>of Southern Oregon.
>
>
I've never heard of copperheads this far West, and certainly never seen
one. Lots of common rattlers of course, esp. in the Kalmiopsis
Wilderness/Illinois River drainage where I spent a lot of time as a child.
I don't have my snake books here at work, but I'd doubt reports of
sidewinders too.
In Indiana copperheads were common enough to be a problem; little kids
were often bitten ("stung" in local parlance) by the little ones they'd
find in the yard. Nothing like them in Oregon AFAIK.
-drl
--
________________________________________________________________________
Derek R. Larson Indiana University Dept. of History
"Nothing interesting occurred today..."
-Meriwether Lewis at Ft. Clatsop, Oregon, Jan.4th, 1806
Don Baccus
Kean Stump <ke...@informix.com> wrote:
>Nope. Rattlesnakes, yes, but not copperheads. My grandfather
>killed the first rattler of the summer a few weeks ago, out by
>Algoma. Stepped off his back porch, and there it was.
Why kill something that eats rodents?
Larry Caldwell
> One of the lesser lights on rec.equestrian is swearing up and down
> that there are copperhead snakes around Klamath Falls and other parts
> of Southern Oregon.
> To my knowledge I've never heard of such a thing; nor have I come
> across any records suggesting that the copperhead lives in southern
> Oregon. My best guess is that there's a local variant of rattlesnake
> that folks are calling "copperhead" that she's referring to, not the
> actual Eastern copperhead (she also mentioned that there are
> sidewinders down there--hokay, I thought they lived in the Southwest,
> but that's a bit more likely than copperheads).
> Then again, given her apparent level of (non) horsemanship, I may be
> giving her too much benefit of the doubt.
> Anyone else here heard of such things? Larry? Don? Derek? Chris?
> Curious minds wanna know.
The one I found my cats playing with last summer was a western rattler,
though from its markings I originally pegged it as a diamondback.
However, diamondbacks are not found in Western Oregon, so I revised the
identification to western rattler (crotalus viridis).
There may possibly be sidewinders in Oregon over in the Black Rock Desert
region along the Nevada border. The books don't claim that sidewinders
are found there, but the desert is fairly continuous from their stated
range, so it is possible I suppose. That's not to say that it happens.
As far as copperheads, not a chance. There are some big honkin' timber
rattlers over around K-Falls, though.
Ask her how long it was to the nearest 1/4 inch and how much it weighed.
Also ask her what the markings along the eyes looked like. If she hasn't
been that close, it's unlikely she could identify a rattlesnake species
and subspecies variants well enough to put a name on it.
I have closeup photos of some rattlesnakes I have encountered. It helps
a lot when I go to identify it later. Love the 200mm macro lens! It
lets you respect the personal space of things like irritated rattlers
while still getting a nice closeup. At close focus it will do 1:3, and a
snake head and a little bit of neck completely fills the neg.
-- Larry
Don Baccus
Larry Caldwell <lar...@teleport.com> wrote:
>There may possibly be sidewinders in Oregon over in the Black Rock Desert
>region along the Nevada border.
The Black Rock's actually in Nevada...your probably thinking
of the Alvord area which lies just north of the Nevada border.
>The books don't claim that sidewinders
>are found there, but the desert is fairly continuous from their stated
>range, so it is possible I suppose. That's not to say that it happens.
I kind of doubt it. The range map shows its range ends where
the Mojave desert meets the divides which form the southern
boundary of the Great Basin. The Black Rock Desert and other
Great Basin playas are very different than the desert habitat
in the mojave. Bordering the playas are a series of fairly
distinct plant communities differentiated by tolerance towards
various salts, eventually turning to sage steppe.
...
>I have closeup photos of some rattlesnakes I have encountered. It helps
>a lot when I go to identify it later. Love the 200mm macro lens! It
>lets you respect the personal space of things like irritated rattlers
>while still getting a nice closeup. At close focus it will do 1:3, and a
>snake head and a little bit of neck completely fills the neg.
If you want to get very close without risking getting struck,
just poke a hole in a large piece of cardboard and stick the
lens through it. A full-time shooter friend shoots rattlers
frequently this way. They can only strike about a third of
their length anyway...
MWI
dho...@pacifier.com (Don Baccus) wrote:
> Why kill something that eats rodents?
> --
>
> - Don Baccus, Portland OR <dho...@pacifier.com>
> Nature photos, on-line guides, at http://donb.photo.net
Don,
What do you have against rodents?! Why, our state's official animal is
an aquatic rodent, and I live in a town named after it...
I'll bet you're all for saving the whales, but don't give a second
thought to all the millions of poor krill each one murders every year...
8^)
Max
Max Whittington Investigations
Beaverton, Oregon
http://www.inetarena.com/~mwi
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Pat Pridgen
> In article <7ktons$80...@webint.na.informix.com>,
> Kean Stump <ke...@informix.com> wrote:
>
> >Nope. Rattlesnakes, yes, but not copperheads. My grandfather
> >killed the first rattler of the summer a few weeks ago, out by
> >Algoma. Stepped off his back porch, and there it was.
>
> Why kill something that eats rodents?
I guess the key phrase here is stepped off his back porch, and there it
was. If I had a rattler that close to the house I'd probably kill it too.
Hate to step out some time and get bit.
---
Pat - La Grande,OR. http://www.greencis.net/~ppridgen
La Grande High Class of '69 Reunion page " " " /reunion/
In /dev/null no one can hear you scream.
Don Baccus
>In article <3772b...@news.pacifier.com>,
>What do you have against rodents?!
I don't, actually. Nor do I have anything against snakes.
It's a prejudice I don't quite get, seems to be ingrained
in many folks. I know one professional wildlife biologist who
is scared stiff of snakes (bad childhood experience). And
another, actually quite well-known local biologist who's
an arachniphobe.
Don Baccus
Pat Pridgen <ppri...@OregonVOS.net> wrote:
>I guess the key phrase here is stepped off his back porch, and there it
>was. If I had a rattler that close to the house I'd probably kill it too.
>Hate to step out some time and get bit.
It was the "killed the first of the season" that caused me
to ask, it implies grandpappy routinely kills rattlers he
sees.
Not that it's that difficult to relocate a rattler, anyway.
Kean Stump
Personally, I would've relocated the snake. Not hard to
do, but my grandfather has different ideas on nuisance
control.
kean
John Q Adams
seldom are bothered by snakes.
Cats eat rodents - no rodents for snakes. Snakes go
somewhere else. Nature's way.
Most folks who live in rural CA keep a couple cats for just
that purpose.
Dogs don't help. But they're lovable and faithful. And don't
bother cats they've grown up with.
John A
Don Baccus wrote in message
<3773e...@news.pacifier.com>...
>In article
<Pine.SUN.3.96.990625...@compass.OregonVOS.
John Q Adams
You heard of the hanta virus carried by wild mice and found
in their feces?
Cuddle up to them mice and pretty soon you won't be posting
anymore.
John A
Don Baccus wrote in message
<37738...@news.pacifier.com>...
>In article <7kup48$nn7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, MWI, CMI
<m...@inetarena.com> wrote:
>>In article <3772b...@news.pacifier.com>,
>
>>What do you have against rodents?!
>
>I don't, actually. Nor do I have anything against snakes.
>
>It's a prejudice I don't quite get, seems to be ingrained
>in many folks. I know one professional wildlife biologist
who
>is scared stiff of snakes (bad childhood experience). And
>another, actually quite well-known local biologist who's
>an arachniphobe.
Gatt
The only experience I have with rattlers in Oregon is when my mom was
working for PGE building the hatchery in Warm Springs. A friend of mine
and I found a skin and started digging up the nearby snake hole. Some
indian kid whose dad worked there also came up and reminded me that I was
stupid, but that his dad had caught one and kept it in a box. He claimed
he used it for a circus act where he turned it loose in the ring and
caught it during the show.
'Course, we laughed at him, so he took us over to a travel trailer, opened
the door, pointed to a big cardboard appliance box and whacked on the
side. I about peed myself. Sho' nuff, you could hear it rattling and
moving around. His dad came roarding out of the trailer and we all ran
off in different directions.
I've never actually SEEN a rattlesnake in Oregon, just heard that one.
Chris Gattman
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Russell Senior
[anecdote snipped]
Gatt> I've never actually SEEN a rattlesnake in Oregon, just heard
Gatt> that one.
When I was younger, I spent a lot of time looking for rattlesnakes,
but not because I wanted to see one. My grandfather used to take me
trout fishing out of The Dalles. We'd go to various suitable places
(deschutes, white river, various forks of the john day, etc), many of
which involved walking a fair distance through sage brush. As I very
sincerely did not want to get bit, I kept a sharp lookout in the
likely spots (e.g., in the shade of sagebrush, under logs and rocks,
etc.) and took to heart the cardinal rule about never stepping over an
obstacle where I couldn't see, but step on to and then away from the
obstacle instead. Never did see a rattlesnake on those outings. Did
see one someone had caught at the OMSI camp (Camp Hancock) near
Fossil, Oregon. Also saw the tail of one (whose head and 80% of its
body was down a hole) on the lower portion of the Dog Mountain trail
(a fairly reliable place to see them, I understand) a few years ago.
--
Russell Senior ``The two chiefs turned to each other.
sen...@teleport.com Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible
profanity, which, translated meant, `This is
extremely unusual.' ''
Don Baccus
Gatt <ga...@europa.com> wrote:
>I've never actually SEEN a rattlesnake in Oregon, just heard that one.
Good story! Rattlers are very common in the dry side of the
state, start spending time to the east and you'll see plenty.
Don Baccus
Russell Senior <sen...@teleport.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "Gatt" == Gatt <ga...@europa.com> writes:
>
>[anecdote snipped]
>
>Gatt> that one.
...
>Also saw the tail of one (whose head and 80% of its
>body was down a hole) on the lower portion of the Dog Mountain trail
>(a fairly reliable place to see them, I understand) a few years ago.
Reliable, yes; in Oregon, no :)
Derek R. Larson
I've seen a lot of them, more than I care to, and my folks have
encountered many more than I. My mother has a nice story about coming
upon a coiled rattler as she was doing a low-crawl toward an antelope she
was stalking. Imagine crawling on your belly in the sagebrush, trying to
be as low and quiet as possible, and suddenly realing there is a rattler
five feet ahead and right at the level of your face.
Most of those I've seen have been along roads, though most of the big
snakes you'll see on the pavement are usually king snakes or bull snakes,
I've been along stretches of highway where I've seen a dozen rattlers in a
half-mile. There are also certain spots that just seem to be crawling
with them-- the banks of the Donner und Blitzen above the Page Springs
campground near Frenchglen is a damn snakey place, and I mentioned the
Illinois River valley earlier as a nice place to look for snakes.
As a teen I shot a rattler that was nearly five feet long. I was eager to
eat it, but settled for skining it when my father objected to my cooking
it on the camp stove when my extremely herpephobic (is that the right
term?) mother was in camp. I still have that skin, and that was the only
snake I've ever killed. Wouldn't do it again as they are easy to avoid if
you're not crawling on your belly.
-derek
Don Baccus
Derek R. Larson <drla...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>There are also certain spots that just seem to be crawling
>with them-- the banks of the Donner und Blitzen above the Page Springs
>campground near Frenchglen is a damn snakey place
Funny...this is one spot where I've NEVER seen a rattlesnake,
and I spend ten years teaching elderhostel classes at the
Malheur Field Station and we always went updstream a half-mile
or so to get yellow-breasted chat and lazuli bunting in
some chokecherry thickets where they nest every year.
Not that I doubt you! It is rattlesnake country.
Further north and west, towards OO, rattlesnake butte is
one of those rare geological features honestly named.
Larry Caldwell
drla...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
> Imagine crawling on your belly in the sagebrush, trying to
> be as low and quiet as possible, and suddenly realing there is a rattler
> five feet ahead and right at the level of your face.
Five feet away is a long ways for a rattler. After all, they don't chase
you, they just bite you if you step on them. Gatt should know all about
"Don't Tread On Me."
Anyway, at five feet you can comfortably sit and hold a conversation with
the rattler. They aren't that dangerous. They do get upset if you start
stomping around, but only because they are afraid you will do something
stupid like step on them. That would be a real mistake.
-- Larry
Gatt
> > Imagine crawling on your belly in the sagebrush, trying to
> > be as low and quiet as possible, and suddenly realing there is a rattler
> > five feet ahead and right at the level of your face.
>
> Five feet away is a long ways for a rattler. After all, they don't chase
> you, they just bite you if you step on them. Gatt should know all about
> "Don't Tread On Me."
Have you seen that Crocodile Hunter guy on cable TV that runs around
catching them with his bare hands, crawling into caves and coming out with
them and stuff. Real-live Crocodile Dundee. If you haven't, look for
it...the show is The Crocodile Hunter and it's some Australian park ranger
action junkie and his TV show. Amazing!
> Anyway, at five feet you can comfortably sit and hold a conversation with
> the rattler. They aren't that dangerous. They do get upset if you start
If I ever seen one, I'll tell him you said hi! :>
Kean Stump
Gatt> that one.
Quite a while ago the Crater Drive-In in Chemult had a sign near
a box that said "See the baby rattler!". You looked in the box
and saw, of course, a baby rattle.
kean
Mark Roberts
Gatt <ga...@europa.com> wrote:
>
>Have you seen that Crocodile Hunter guy on cable TV that runs around
>catching them with his bare hands, crawling into caves and coming out with
>them and stuff. Real-live Crocodile Dundee. If you haven't, look for
>it...the show is The Crocodile Hunter and it's some Australian park ranger
>action junkie and his TV show. Amazing!
>
Hey, don't forget his wife!! She isn't *quite* as crazy, but I've watched
shows where the Crocodile Hunter guy has been laying on top of a Croc that
was to big for him to handle and she pitches right in!!
If I remember correctly ... I think I heard that she was from either Oregon
or Washington ... Well, at any rate, she *is* American.
-mArk-
Gatt
> Hey, don't forget his wife!! She isn't *quite* as crazy, but I've watched
> shows where the Crocodile Hunter guy has been laying on top of a Croc that
> was to big for him to handle and she pitches right in!!
Indeed. She seems a bit more level-headed and less of an action junkie.
On occasion he has to rescue her from a snake or something just so she
doesn't outshine him. :>
> If I remember correctly ... I think I heard that she was from either Oregon
> or Washington ... Well, at any rate, she *is* American.
Definately American. Interesting that she's from the northwest, but not
surprising.
Mike Mohr
> >
> > > Imagine crawling on your belly in the sagebrush, trying to
> > > be as low and quiet as possible, and suddenly realing there is a rattler
> > > five feet ahead and right at the level of your face.
> >
> > Five feet away is a long ways for a rattler. After all, they don't chase
> > you, they just bite you if you step on them. Gatt should know all about
> > "Don't Tread On Me."
>
> Have you seen that Crocodile Hunter guy on cable TV that runs around
> catching them with his bare hands, crawling into caves and coming out with
> them and stuff. Real-live Crocodile Dundee. If you haven't, look for
> it...the show is The Crocodile Hunter and it's some Australian park ranger
> action junkie and his TV show. Amazing!
>
I think he's a bit of a nutter. His wife/partner used to live in Eastern
Washington.
--
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