Ithaca - Cornell U.
Vince Gin
place. He is interested in the College of Engineering. Any insight or
suggested places to visit would be appreciated.
Please e-mail directly.
Thanks in advance.
Jon Meltzer
Steven Daniel <sg...@crux1.cit.cornell.edu> wrote:
>
>It's all a matter of opinion. I've never lived in a town as dead and unpleasant
>as this one, and I'd never recommend that anyone live here. But of course,
>those are just my two cents. Check the place out and decide for yourself.
>
As a native Ithacan that went to Cornell, I am forced to agree. If you
like rude, arrogant, obnoxious people; bad weather; being treated in
classes like a dishonest cheat; poor instruction; a bureaucracy that makes
IBM look efficient; faculty advisors that do not keep office hours;
wages barely above poverty level (if that) and big-city rents ...
then come to beautiful, sunny, friendly Ithaca.
All others: Go somewhere else. _Anywhere_ else.
Jon Meltzer
--
The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
C. Todd Krissel
>It's all a matter of opinion. I've never lived in a town as dead and
>unpleasant as this one, and I'd never recommend that anyone live here.
>But of course, those are just my two cents. Check the place out and
>decide for yourself.
You know the saying: "everything is relative"?
Well, I guess if you grew up in Manhattan, Chicago, Los Angeles, or
some other large city, you'd be right to think that Ithaca is "dead."
However, compared to most other towns in upstate New York (places
like Smithville Flats, Cobleskill, and Afton stick out in my mind),
Ithaca is a metropolis. It's a nice "college town" feel. There's a
small artistic community there, and wineries by the lake.
Basically, if I had to live in New York State, and I couldn't live in
Manhattan, then it would have to be Ithaca.
(Tell anyone going to Ithaca to eat at Moosewood, too. If they didn't
have a good time in Ithaca, at least they'll have had a good meal. ;-)
Todd Krissel
tkrisse...@xerox.com
Robin L Gelinson
> However, compared to most other towns in upstate New York (places
> like Smithville Flats, Cobleskill, and Afton stick out in my mind),
> Ithaca is a metropolis. It's a nice "college town" feel. There's a
> small artistic community there, and wineries by the lake.
Ahh Todd,
You said all the right places. I grew up in Cobleskill, and that is
exactly how I feel about Ithaca. It is the perfect size, and the people
are very interesting and varied. I worked briefly at a school which had
many students who were children of Cornell professors/students. The number
of countries represented was amazing. If I go back to New York, that is
where I want to be.
Robin
--
Document Delivery Person
Golda Meir Library
University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee
Disclaimer: I'm only part time........
Nora Jean Bensahel
Robin L Gelinson <geli...@csd4.csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
>
>> However, compared to most other towns in upstate New York (places
>> like Smithville Flats, Cobleskill, and Afton stick out in my mind),
>> Ithaca is a metropolis. It's a nice "college town" feel. There's a
>> small artistic community there, and wineries by the lake.
And even those of us who are originally from large places manage
to like Ithaca! I'm originally from New York City, right in
the middle of Manhattan, and spent four wonderful years in Ithaca
as a Cornell student. I will admit that I went through culture shock
when I first arrived, and that after four years I was ready to move on,
but Ithaca was a wonderful place to be. You don't have to consider
Ithaca a metropolis in order to ewnjoy it... in fact, precisely
what I liked about it was the fact that it was nice, small, and
friendly, but with a real diversity of people and interests.
Just my two cents!
Nora
--
Nora Bensahel
Department of Political Science "Reality is just a special case. That's
Stanford University why we don't study it."
no...@leland.stanford.edu -- a Stanford professor
jago...@agsm.ucla.edu
In article <leary74-04...@lev5683.potsdam.edu> lea...@potsdam.edu (Alex Leary ) writes:
>In article <2ikeg8$g...@dawn.mmm.com>, us03...@medlab1.mmm.com (Vince Gin)
>wrote:
>>
>> My son is planning to visit Cornell during spring break and checkout the
>> place. He is interested in the College of Engineering. Any insight or
>> suggested places to visit would be appreciated.
>
>
>aren't many cities as nice as Ithaca. oh btw-I plan on transferring to
>Ithaca Collge next semester.
And my husband and I am moving to Ithaca in April, we are not students,
we have just decided that Ithaca is the nicest town we can find.
Jan
R Henry
> >In article <2ikeg8$g...@dawn.mmm.com>, us03...@medlab1.mmm.com (Vince Gin)
> >wrote:
> >>
> >> My son is planning to visit Cornell during spring break and checkout the
> >> place. He is interested in the College of Engineering. Any insight or
> >> suggested places to visit would be appreciated.
> >
> >
> >---Tell him to go. Ithaca is a great city and a cultural wonder. There
> >aren't many cities as nice as Ithaca. oh btw-I plan on transferring to
> >Ithaca Collge next semester.
I'd add my own experience of moving to Ithaca recently, specifically
anticipating that the quality of life here is superior to the last couple
places I have worked and lived (New Haven and Syracuse). I haven't been
disappointed: I like it here a lot.
As far as the person who said it was "dull".... they must not be able to
read the weekly artsy paper because my problem is usually I don't have time
to see all the films/concerts/lectures/etc. that I want to attend! It only
gets slow when the colleges are out.... but it's nice then to have to peace
& quiet, too. I suppose if you mainly like to go out to dance clubs and so
on, Ithaca would be a problem for you, however.....
/------------------|------------------------------------------\
| Ron Henry | "Don't quit your day job..." T. Rundgren |
| rg...@cornell.edu| "What we want and what we need |
|------------------| has been confused..." M. Stipe |
|------------------|------------------------------------------|
HENRY BENJAMIN H
>
> You said all the right places. I grew up in Cobleskill, and that is
>exactly how I feel about Ithaca. It is the perfect size, and the people
>are very interesting and varied. I worked briefly at a school which had
>many students who were children of Cornell professors/students. The number
>of countries represented was amazing. If I go back to New York, that is
>where I want to be.
>
>Robin
>--
>Document Delivery Person
>Golda Meir Library
Hey, talking about small upstate ``cities,'' has anyone ever been to
Oneonta? They have the world's best Cold Cheese Pizza. Just go to
Tino's (downtown, next to the Black Oak Tavern and across from Bresee's)
and ask for a slice o' cold cheese. And enjoy!
Also: Go to the Autumn Cafe, (also downtown) great place, similar to
Moosewood in Ithaca.
--
--Benjamin H. Henry * bh4...@thor.albany.edu
* English dept. * The Center for Electronic Language Learning and Research
The University at Albany, Albany, NY. *
Why can we never be sure 'till we die? All that guilt for an answer...
HENRY BENJAMIN H
>
> You said all the right places. I grew up in Cobleskill, and that is
>exactly how I feel about Ithaca. It is the perfect size, and the people
>are very interesting and varied. I worked briefly at a school which had
>many students who were children of Cornell professors/students. The number
>of countries represented was amazing. If I go back to New York, that is
>where I want to be.
>
>Robin
>--
>Document Delivery Person
>Golda Meir Library
Hey, talking about small upstate ``cities,'' has anyone ever been to
Steven Daniel
>> However, compared to most other towns in upstate New York (places
>> like Smithville Flats, Cobleskill, and Afton stick out in my mind),
>> Ithaca is a metropolis. It's a nice "college town" feel. There's a
>> small artistic community there, and wineries by the lake.
>Ahh Todd,
> You said all the right places. I grew up in Cobleskill, and that is
>exactly how I feel about Ithaca. It is the perfect size, and the people
>are very interesting and varied. I worked briefly at a school which had
>many students who were children of Cornell professors/students. The number
>of countries represented was amazing. If I go back to New York, that is
>where I want to be.
I never denied that Ithaca has its virtues. It's not the worst place in the
world. However, compared to other towns in the U.S. of COMPARABLE SIZE
and wealth, it's just lame. And as I said in my original post, this is
just my opinion -- so back off, goddamn it!
Steve
Peter Hamilton
> like rude, arrogant, obnoxious people; bad weather; being treated in
> classes like a dishonest cheat; poor instruction; a bureaucracy that makes
> IBM look efficient; faculty advisors that do not keep office hours;
> wages barely above poverty level (if that) and big-city rents ...
> then come to beautiful, sunny, friendly Ithaca.
>
> All others: Go somewhere else. _Anywhere_ else.
>
> Jon Meltzer
Hey now, Jon...
I lived in Ithaca all my life, and chose not to attend Cornell because I
had become a bit sick of the place after 17 years. However, for the four
year college student, the town's got a lot to offer. It's one of the most
beautiful areas in the country (_Most_ of the time), and also quite a
culturally diverse place. Attempting to generalize a town is difficult,
and characterizing the population as "rude, arrogant and obnoxious" is
counterproductive. Amongst the 20,000 odd people at Cornell, there will be
some of all walks of life. The problem is finding them. Make sure that
you realize just how big the university is before you go there!
Happy college hunting!
-Peter Hamilton
Robert Bartz
>Hey, talking about small upstate ``cities,'' has anyone ever been to
>Oneonta? They have the world's best Cold Cheese Pizza. Just go to
>Tino's (downtown, next to the Black Oak Tavern and across from Bresee's)
>and ask for a slice o' cold cheese. And enjoy!
Ahh yes. A friend of mine goes to Hartwick College, and I've been up
there a few times. Tino's is kind of unique, I'll admit. And don't forget
that Oneonta has the most bars per capita in the US (if the not the
world), 56!!! What a place...
Bob
M...@psuvm.psu.edu
familiar with Afton and Cobleskill), attending Ithaca College,and then
returning to work as a librarian at IC for 6 years, I think Ithaca can be
many things for many people. For me, it was a chance to experience the
culture of a large city without the hassle of big city survival. The Finger
Lakes area is incredibly gorgeous, if a tad bleak in the winter (but then I
grew up in bleak winters, so I didn't expect anything else). I know that
some of my college friends from "the City and the Island" (at IC in the late
60's, that was a self-evident geographical reference) found Ithaca
claustrophic - they usually acquired cars sometime during their freshman
year and beat a hasty retreat to Rt.17 on Friday afternoons. But the Ithaca
area is rich in possibilities if one's expectations are realistic. And I
second the Moosewood recommendation and also suggest Cabbagetown Cafe on
Eddy St! Mary Ellen Litzinger
**********************************
Mary Ellen Litzinger Bitnet:M9L@PSUVM
Instructional Specialist Bitnet:MEL@PSULIAS
Penn State University Libraries FAX:814:865-3665
E408K Pattee Library Phone:814:865-3064
University Park, Pa. 16802 Internet:M...@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Jim Beers
56 per capita, that is a lot.
Every small college town has the most bars per capita in the US.
(except those in Utah and Pennsylvania)
I'll bet there are a half a dozen in Upstate NY making this claim,
N Peter Fleszar
>>wrote:
>>>
>>> My son is planning to visit Cornell during spring break and checkout the
>>> place. He is interested in the College of Engineering. Any insight or
>>> suggested places to visit would be appreciated.
Here's what will undoubtedly be a minority opinion, but DON'T. I was in
Cornell's College of Engineering and was subjected to professors who
couldn't teach and the classic non-English-speaking TAs through all my
freshman and sophomore courses. Frankly, I didn't learn much of anything,
as I'm now finding to my regret. I could add more detail, but I'll be
late for class. Basically, to go to Cornell as an undergrad would be a
waste of someone's hard-earned money. You'll have to decide whether the
name recognition is worth the vastly increased expense, coupled with the
poor education. A SUNY school, in my experience, would be far better.
A colleague of mine suggests that the above holds less well for the
Agricultural Engineering department in Cornell's agriculture college. The
tuition is less, too, but not as much less as a "real" SUNY school would be.
Ithaca is a superficially attractive community. I grew up in the area.
It's a great place if you have money and you want to deal with people who
are full of themselves, but the novelty wears thin after a while.
Peter ("my mailing address is in Tompkins County") Fleszar
Gregory Larkin
In article <1994Feb11.1...@sarah.albany.edu>, bh4...@thor.albany.edu (HENRY BENJAMIN H) writes:
[...deleted...]
|>
|> Hey, talking about small upstate ``cities,'' has anyone ever been to
|> Oneonta? They have the world's best Cold Cheese Pizza. Just go to
|> Tino's (downtown, next to the Black Oak Tavern and across from Bresee's)
|> and ask for a slice o' cold cheese. And enjoy!
|>
|> Also: Go to the Autumn Cafe, (also downtown) great place, similar to
|> Moosewood in Ithaca.
|>
How about Brook's restaurant? It is the last exit in Oneonta if you
are heading east on rt. 88. They have huge outdoor BBQ pits and you
can see the smoke rising off them as you approach the restaurant. It's
not exactly haute cuisine, but finger-lickin' good!
As a side note, why aren't there more rest area (i.e. bathrooms!) on
rt. 88 in either direction?? (from Albany to Binghamton). Every time
I travel from MA to Binghamton to visit relatives, I just about explode
somewhere beyond Albany. I think I have to make a list of rt. 88 exits
that are "bathroom friendly"!
One thing I have learned is don't get off at any of the Cobleskill exits
thinking you will find a nearby gas station and restroom. My GF and I
drove about 4 miles into Cobleskill, rested ourselves, then got caught in
a Saturday afternoon traffic jam (!), finally turned around and backtracked
to 88. Not too efficient!
--
Greg Larkin
Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Marlboro, Massachusetts, USA
gr...@Viewlogic.COM
Jon Meltzer
N Peter Fleszar <npfl...@rodan.syr.edu> wrote:
>
>Here's what will undoubtedly be a minority opinion, but DON'T. I was in
>Cornell's College of Engineering and was subjected to professors who
>couldn't teach and the classic non-English-speaking TAs through all my
>freshman and sophomore courses. Frankly, I didn't learn much of anything,
>as I'm now finding to my regret. I could add more detail, but I'll be
>late for class. Basically, to go to Cornell as an undergrad would be a
>waste of someone's hard-earned money. You'll have to decide whether the
>name recognition is worth the vastly increased expense, coupled with the
>poor education. A SUNY school, in my experience, would be far better.
>
much of the teaching staff is ... well ... almost inexpressible unless
you've been subjected to it.
One wonders where all the tuition dollars go. As a former student, son
of a faculty member, and former employee, my experience is that neither
the students, faculty, nor employees receive much of the money ...
Jon Meltzer
son of Cornell professor forced to retire early for emphasizing
undergraduate teaching rather than research
Donald Banfield
at Cornell, after growing up in Lansing (Myers to be precise). I was
in the Applied and Engineering Physics Department which in my opinion gave
me one of the most solid foundations in theoretical and applied science
that I could have gotten.
It served me well enough that I just finished a Ph.D. from Caltech
n Planetary Science (yeah, Mars Observer was my career making a "giant
sucking sound into outer space"). But interestingly enough, my best
job possibility now is a post-doc back at Cornell!
Here's my slant on engineering schooling at Cornell. If you're
going to go to graduate school, then it probably isn't necessary to go to
a big name like Cornell (although if you've got the mega-bucks, its a damn
good education) because you get only a marginally better education than
you could at, say, Utah State. On the other hand, if you're going to go
straight to work after a BS, then the big name of Cornell may get you that
competitive edge in the job market. Again though, the education isn't going
to be that much better than a less famous place. Bottom line: name recognition
helps, but probably only at the last schooling you get.
I do have one question for the group, I have lived in Los Angeles
for 6.5 years now, and am worried that I too am going to find Ithaca to be
a little too quaint if I return there. Has anybody made such a return to
a small upstate town after some time in a big city?
Don Banfield
d...@cluster.gps.caltech.edu
HENRY BENJAMIN H
>|>
>
>How about Brook's restaurant? It is the last exit in Oneonta if you
>are heading east on rt. 88. They have huge outdoor BBQ pits and you
>can see the smoke rising off them as you approach the restaurant. It's
>not exactly haute cuisine, but finger-lickin' good!
I heard a rumor that brook's restraunt was the first place to
ever have Bar-B-Q'd chicken. Like they invented it or something.
Anyone know anything about this?
--
Benjamin H. Henry * bh4...@thor.albany.edu * English dept. * The Center for
Electronic Language Learning and Research * The University at Albany, Albany, NY
``I'd like to cut you head off so I can weigh it, whaddya say? Five Pounds?
Six Pounds? Seven Pounds?'' -Phish
David J. Greenberger
>The Arts College is not much better, if that. The arrogant ignorance of
>much of the teaching staff is ... well ... almost inexpressible unless
>you've been subjected to it.
Funny, that hasn't been my experience, and my major is in both schools being
discussed here (Computer Science is in both Arts and Engineering -- personally,
I'm in Arts). Certain departments are notoriously bad at teaching -- although
I've heard that, researchwise, the physics department is one of the best, my
experience in Physics 213 was a waste of time, not to mention that it pulled my
GPA down (it was the worst grade I've gotten yet, and I've always thought I was
pretty good at physics). Many departments, though, show the opposite trend.
The CS professors clearly care about their students; one of them won the CASE
award of New York State Professor of the Year (a teaching award) the year after
I took his introductory course, and one who I have now is putting in great
effort to know every student (80 or so) by name and puts videos of his lectures
on reserve in Uris Library. I've also taken two 200-level courses in the music
department taught by Neal Zaslaw, one of the world's foremost experts on
Mozart.
--
David J. Greenberger (607) 256-2171 d.gree...@cornell.edu
Steven Germano
you were intelligently discussing Ithaca - Cornell U.
NPF> Here's what will undoubtedly be a minority opinion, but DON'T. I was
NPF> in Cornell's College of Engineering and was subjected to professors who
NPF> couldn't teach and the classic non-English-speaking TAs through all my
NPF> freshman and sophomore courses. Frankly, I didn't learn much of
NPF> anything, as I'm now finding to my regret. I could add more detail,
NPF> but I'll be late for class. Basically, to go to Cornell as an
NPF> undergrad would be a waste of someone's hard-earned money. You'll have
NPF> to decide whether the name recognition is worth the vastly increased
NPF> expense, coupled with the poor education. A SUNY school, in my
NPF> experience, would be far better.
This is very interesting, since I made that exact decision (albeit back in
1976). I was accepted at C.U., but decided that $6,000 a year tuition was
just too much (they offered me $2000 in aid to offset part of it). I
opted, instead, for SUNY StonyBrook for my first 2 years, then transferred
to SUNY Buffalo for my junior and senior years. I paid $400 a semester at
SB and $1500 room, board and tuition at Buffalo. I graduated with a BS in
Physics and got myself a good job in fire prevention engineering. My loan
repayment schedule was pretty reasonable. My friend who went to MIT can't
say the same thing.
I now do loss prevention engineering at C.U., and wonder how much different
things would have been had I gone there (the campus is beautiful
...especially from the roof of Olin Library).
... It's a small world but I'd hate to have to paint it.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
R Henry
> >>> My son is planning to visit Cornell during spring break and checkout the
> >>> place. He is interested in the College of Engineering. Any insight or
> >>> suggested places to visit would be appreciated.
>
> Here's what will undoubtedly be a minority opinion, but DON'T. I was in
> Cornell's College of Engineering and was subjected to professors who
> couldn't teach and the classic non-English-speaking TAs through all my
> freshman and sophomore courses.
Well, the negative comments may have some basis in fact (it *is* possible
to get lost in the crowd at a place the size of Cornell) but I think they
are extreme overreactions, with personal acts to grind.... I notice two of
them are locals, as well. Maybe they just want to keep the population down
:)
As far as the Ithaca community being "superficial" I think that any
community offers itself in proportion to the energy one puts into
investigating it. I have had no shortage of music (much of it free -- IC is
a music conservatory! and Cornell has many free classical concerts as well,
and many relatively <$10 pop/rock concerts); film (great films for $4 every
night of the week, and $5 films at local art houses); outdoors activities
(tremendous state parks you can take the bus or bike to); food (e.g., I had
supper at a Vietnamese place the other night for $6) -- while living here,
and I have very little spending money myself.
I suspect the "you can only have fun in Ithaca if you have money" comments
come from the anger one often feels seeing undergrads throwing $50's around
in bars and driving shiny sports cars.... which I have felt myself! But
that is true *anywhere* there is a private college/university (I
lived/worked in Gambier --Kenyon College-- Ohio, Poughkeepsie (Vassar), NY,
and New (Yale) Haven, before returning to Ithaca.)
Similarly, I think the "teaching is mediocre" attitude is partly a
student's fault. If you don't like a TA, have the gumption to change
sections! Maybe students should have this stressed to them more. (But this
is what I did when my freshman calc TA seemed not to care about the class).
Again, there are plusses and minuses attached to CU's size and prestige.
Obviously not everyone is gonna get to study with Carl Sagan, or his equals
in other disciplines. But even the grad students that are attracted to
Cornell are probably going to be pretty sharp in their field. And in my
soph+ humanities courses (esp. English and Anthro.) I always had small
(c.15) classes with professors, not grad students.
My .02!
Ron Henry (now an underpaid staff person at Cornell pondering his future)
Halpin
I too am a computer science major (in the engineering department however) and I
agree with David with respect to the basic physics courses. My roomie, however
is an aplied and engineering physics major and he loves the upper level courses.
I have found that every tenured prof. cares about his/her students. The only
profs. i've had problems with (teaching style/ignorance) are the 1st and 2nd year
profs. Once they feel more comfortable with their teaching style/situation,
they get a lot better.
Hal
don't forget the Turing award winner last year: Prof. Hartmanis
David Levine
in the quality of the teaching. I went to a small liberal arts
college for my undergraduate education, and perhaps I was
spoiled. At Occidental College (my undergrad school) I was used
to being invited to professors' homes, and having my professors
give me lots of time and attention. At Cornell, I felt that my
professors treated me like I was a waste of their time because
I wasn't contributing to their research. I have heard the
same reports from other Oxyites who went off to relatively
larger Ivy League research institutions. If it weren't for my
peers -- fellow grad students -- and the fact I didn't have to
pay for my tuition (I was fortunate enough to get a full scholar-
ship plus stipend), I would really be pissed off. As it is, I
have pleasant associations with Ithaca and the University -- just
not happy with the instruction.
My opinion -- if you are going to spend all that money on a
private school, you might as well do it where you get full value.
-- Claire Petersky using David Levine's account
--
*** Standard disclaimers apply. ***