Upstate Independence (was: When the hell...)
Emmett
Okay, fine, we've had a good run on this topic, but let's list some
good reasons why New York State should be divided into at least two
smaller states. I am a firm believer in this. Here's why.
1. Culture is what defines a people. Where language is similar, but
culture different, you will find a longing for independence on the
part of the less influential segment of the population. We are, after
all, still in the age of nationalism. America thought it had
superseded that supposedly antiquated, emotional, non-rational
ideology, but it did not. It provided diversions, to be sure. But it
is very plain to any resident of New York State above Albany that New
York City and its suburbs represent a wholly different culture than
what is seen here. Yes, we wear the same clothes, but even in Bosnia
you'll find regular looking chaps wearing Yale T-shirts. But if you
ask a schoolkid about adaptions that allow humans to get food, a city
kid will tell you we have hands to grab money with; an North Country
kid will tell you we have keen eyesight with which to properly shoot
our food. Quite a cultural divide there.
2. New York City has a hugely disproportionate effect on statewide
elections, as evidenced by the dismal Environmental Slush Fund Bond
that was passed on November 5. Would it really be fair to an
apartment dweller if a family in Apartment D-4, with 400 relatives
crammed into a six room space, each with Co-op voting rights, had to
put up with Muzac, metal detectors, and daily delousing upon entry
simply because the folks in Apartment D-4 out-voted the rest of the
building's residents on just such a ballot? Certainly not. This is
the tyranny of the majority.
2.1 When the framers of the Constitution were considering how to
mitigate the effects of disproportionate populations on national
politics, they decided to appoint two Senators for each State, no
matter what the population. Where is this respect for the minority in
our State's politics? We are on the upside of a see-saw, with no way
to go down that doesn't involve falling and breaking a limb. Both our
State's senators are from downstate. Our Governor is from downstate.
3. New York City, in its rapacious disregard of the environment, has
submerged more acreage than any other city in the east. None of this
acreage, was uninhabited. Folks up in Shokan can still tell you what
life was like before the City came and put their town underwater.
(Hurry, those survivors are pretty old by now.) How about
Cannonsville Reservoir? How many folks were displaced by that? And
for WHAT? Because the city didn't have the political will to put in
water meters? Because the city didn't feel like charging what water
was worth? Or because those country folk didn't matter shit when it
came to the city's needs?
I intend for this to be a serious discussion of the merits of the 51st
State (and I don't mean Puerto Rico.) Let's not substitute vitriol
for reasoned discussion.
Please add your thoughts to this thread!
Emmett
Daniel Goodman
Some considerations:
1) How much of the "City outvoting us" problem is New York City, and how
much is the suburbs? Same for cultural problems. And the suburbs are
moving north. Where are you going to draw a dividing line so that
Upstaters are safe from NYC-sururbs interfering?
2) States whose largest nearby cities are outside those states don't seem
to do as well as Upstate New York. Examples: New Jersey, whose largest
cities are NYC and Philadelphia. Mississippi, whose big cities are
Memphis TN and New Orleans LA.
3) What about Long Island?
4) If the state _was_ divided, how long would it be before people started
complaining about Buffalo -- which would then be the Big Bad City?
--
Dan Goodman
dsg...@visi.com
http://www.visi.com/~dsgood/index.html
Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much.
bill...@aol.com
In article <570g26$6...@darla.visi.com>, dsg...@visi.com (Daniel Goodman)
writes:
>Some considerations:
>
>1) How much of the "City outvoting us" problem is New York City, and how
>much is the suburbs? Same for cultural problems. And the suburbs are
>moving north. Where are you going to draw a dividing line so that
>Upstaters are safe from NYC-sururbs interfering?
NYC has about 7 million people. The suburbs have about 5 million more.
Upstate has about 6 million. Generally, NYC votes democrat, upstate,
except for upstate cities, vote republican, and the NYC suburbs hold the
balance. That is where most elections in the state are really fought.
Exceptions: Pataki won not because of a groundswell of upstate Republican
support, but because NYC's democrats had grown weary of Cuomo and didn't
vote in their usual numbers. So NYC and its 'burbs may disproportionately
affect state elections, but they also help support upstate's economy
through state facilities (SUNY, prisons even, great state parks and
forests) and through tourism.
>2) States whose largest nearby cities are outside those states don't seem
>to do as well as Upstate New York. Examples: New Jersey, whose largest
>cities are NYC and Philadelphia. Mississippi, whose big cities are
>Memphis TN and New Orleans LA.
States need an income generator which large cities provide.
>3) What about Long Island?
I'm very pleased that three million people seem to like it there.
>4) If the state _was_ divided, how long would it be before people started
>complaining about Buffalo -- which would then be the Big Bad City?
About five minutes.
Bill Nechamen
Schenectady, NY
"He who knows nothing and knows he knows nothing is a child. Teach him.
He who knows something and thinks he knows nothing is asleep. Wake him.
He who knows nothing and thinks he knows something is a fool. Shun him."
lu...@aol.com
Emmett wrote:
>>We are on the upside of a see-saw, with no way
to go down that doesn't involve falling and breaking a limb. Both our
State's senators are from downstate. Our Governor is from downstate.<<
George Pataki is from Putnam County.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan is from either Otsego, Delaware or Schoharie
County (my map doesn't show the village he lives outside of, near Oneonta)
And yes, Al D'Amato is from lawn guyland.
I would also add that the #3 in the Republican Congress represents part of
the North County - Gerald Solomon, who lives in Queensbury, where Assault
Weapons are needed protection, or so he says.
Luke H. Gordon
UPIU International Representative
Lu...@aol.com
"No matter where you go, there you are!" - Dr. B. Banzai.
Charles M. Vamossy
In <19961122061...@ladder01.news.aol.com> lu...@aol.com
writes:
>Emmett wrote:
>
>>>We are on the upside of a see-saw, with no way
>to go down that doesn't involve falling and breaking a limb. Both our
>State's senators are from downstate. Our Governor is from
downstate.<<
>
>George Pataki is from Putnam County.
George Pataki was born and raised in Westchester County. His father
owned a farm in Peekskill and George eventually ran for office and for
several years he was the mayor of that Westchester city, before he
became a State Senator, still representing Westchester County.
A few years ago, after his father died, the family sold the farm and
George and Libby reinvested their money in a home just across the
county border in Garrison, Putnam County.
Charlie Vamossy
Julia C. Tenney
lu...@aol.com wrote:
> Daniel Patrick Moynihan is from either Otsego, Delaware or Schoharie
> County (my map doesn't show the village he lives outside of, near Oneonta)
Delaware county. His house was recently featured (in the past couple
years) in something like Architectural Digest.
Can we just pretend he's from the city?
Thanks, in part, to Moynihan, my college years exposed me to levels of
racism I would rather not witness again.
Julia - Vassar '91
--
OMP Internet Development
The Oneida-Madison Pennysaver
http://www.psaver.com/
kevxu
"Julia C. Tenney" <omps...@psaver.com> wrote:
>Can we just pretend he's from the city?
>Thanks, in part, to Moynihan, my college years exposed me to levels of
>racism I would rather not witness again.
>
>Julia - Vassar '91
Intriguing comment. What are you referring to?
Jack Carroll
ric...@warwick.net
lu...@aol.com wrote:
: Emmett wrote:
: >>We are on the upside of a see-saw, with no way
: to go down that doesn't involve falling and breaking a limb. Both our
: State's senators are from downstate. Our Governor is from downstate.<<
: George Pataki is from Putnam County.
: Daniel Patrick Moynihan is from either Otsego, Delaware or Schoharie
: County (my map doesn't show the village he lives outside of, near Oneonta)
: And yes, Al D'Amato is from lawn guyland.
: I would also add that the #3 in the Republican Congress represents part of
: the North County - Gerald Solomon, who lives in Queensbury, where Assault
: Weapons are needed protection, or so he says.
And the House Foreign Affairs Committee chairman is Ben Gilman,
representing Orange and Rockland counties (and I think his home is in
Middletown, NY).
et9...@cnsvax.albany.edu
It seems that i need to be vocal today, maybe I am just that mood. I
read a note doing a sly little attack on Gerold Solomon who is my
representative, and a damn fine one at that. He represents a small
little, conservative district that is very against the outlawing of
firearms. Such nice, small town as granville, hartford, salem, and
hebron where one of the favorite past times of the locals is hunting
falls in his district.
It is amazing to me that Mr. Solomons bold state in our nations capital
was take so badly. It also amuses me to hear 'assault rifles'. Under
the liberal whinings that washington has heard in the last few years, my
semi-automatic .30-06 is practically an 'assault rifle' and you cant even
buy the kind of .22 I own anymore cause it holds 13 rounds, good thing it
is grandfathered, I wouldnt want to be a lawbreaking, gun toting
revolutionary who kills people in the night with my dangerous 'assault
rifle' If true crime control is wanted, this country needs to take a
look at some simple facts. It is not the gun that kills, it is the
fruitcase scumbag behind it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Eric Tucker * _____ __________ _____.___. ____ __. |
| ET9...@cnsvax.albany.edu * / _ \ \______ \\__ | || |/ _| |
| tuc...@cs.albany.edu * / /_\ \ | _/ / | || < |
| "If tyranny is the law, * / | \ | | \ \____ || | \ |
| Revolution is the order. * \____|__ / |____|_ / / ______||____|__ \ |
| They can jail the resistor * \/ \/ \/ \/ |
| But not the resistance." * |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~sXe~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rebecca Brynteson
You make a wonderful point. I agree and can empathize. AND my best
friend works for Gerry here in Saratoga Springs...(YES! I am HOME!)
et9...@cnsvax.albany.edu wrote:
: It seems that i need to be vocal today, maybe I am just that mood. I
--
Becca Brynteson
"I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library."
--Jorge Luis Borges
Charles M. Vamossy
In <Pine.PMDF.3.91.9611261...@cnsvax.albany.edu>
et9...@cnsvax.albany.edu writes:
>
>It is amazing to me that Mr. Solomons bold state in our nations
capital was take so badly.
What on earth is a bold state??? Maybe that why it was "take" badly.
If true crime control is wanted, this country needs to take a
>look at some simple facts. It is not the gun that kills, it is the
>fruitcase scumbag behind it.
>
The simple fact is that even a fruitcake scumbag needs a gun if he or
she is going to shoot off anything besides a big mouth.
>| Eric Tucker
Charles Vamossy
gr...@aol.com
And you think that outlawing guns is going to keep your "fruitcake
scumbag" from getting a gun?
Sean
Dhalle
et9...@cnsvax.albany.edu wrote:
>
If true crime control is wanted, this country needs to take a
> look at some simple facts. It is not the gun that kills, it is the
> fruitcase scumbag behind it.
another reason to leave hicksville,USA(UPSTATE NY)!! if you want to hunt
do it with a spear or something like the indians did before your
forefathers came over to america and SHOT them all and raped their women
and stole their land!! your argument about having the right to bear arms
and hunting is tired and weak!! outlaw guns from everyone and put a dent
in crime like in europe!!
r...@inetworld.net
On 27 Nov 1996 15:44:51 GMT, gr...@aol.com wrote:
>And you think that outlawing guns is going to keep your "fruitcake
>scumbag" from getting a gun?
Since the vast majority of people murdered are offed by someone they
know (50 % of women by a husband, boyfriend or ex of either variety),
the "fruitcake scumbag" seems to be the least of our worries.
Americans are just too damn willing to settle a dispute with a gun.
Doesn't matter if you ban them or arm everyone, because you're not
dealing with the root causes of violence in this society. Stop
looking for the easy answer.
=Bob
eflo...@servtech.com
gr...@aol.com wrote:
>And you think that outlawing guns is going to keep your "fruitcake
>scumbag" from getting a gun?
>Sean
Or, using something else. A knife, perhaps. A baseball bat.
A fountain pen.
The problem is not the tool, it's the person HOLDING it.
=0=
There is no 'shades of grey',no 'grey areas', only black and white
spots, some of which are very small. If you see grey, you're not getting
close enough to what you're looking at to know it's true nature.
===============
There is nobody so intent on enforcing conformity to their ideas and
ideals, as a person who insists on diversity.
=1=
DUMP DEMOCRATS!
**********************************************
* THE FREE FILE FARM BBS GT-NET 041/007 *
*ONLINE 24*7@1-716-352-6544 & 1-716-352-1629 *
* OVER 6 GIGS OF DOWNLOADABLES ONLINE !! *
*ALWAYS ONLINE, ALWAYS GROWING, ALWAYS FREE!!*
**********************************************
___/oo|== ===~~~~~~~~~~~########| |########~~~~~~~~~~======|oo\____
I_|_____|____Q___Conrail__=_=_=_=|_I I_|______Q__Conrail________|_____|_I
`-'O==O==O`---------------'O==O==O`-'~`-'O==O==O`---------------'O==O==O`-'
Conrail Quality:As long as we don't have to switch it,load it or unload it.
et9...@cnsvax.albany.edu
> Since the vast majority of people murdered are offed by someone they
> know (50 % of women by a husband, boyfriend or ex of either variety),
> the "fruitcake scumbag" seems to be the least of our worries.
> Americans are just too damn willing to settle a dispute with a gun.
> Doesn't matter if you ban them or arm everyone, because you're not
> dealing with the root causes of violence in this society. Stop
> looking for the easy answer.
Throwing out statistics is easy to do, like in cities where firearms
education has been instituted, crimes by firearms have dropped as much as
30%, or that only .27 percent of all crimes committed with a firearm
involve 'assault rifles' as termed by the federal government.
Patrick A. Ferrel
: The problem is not the tool, it's the person HOLDING it.
Which is precisely why I think weapons capable of mass destruction should
be kept away from people.
Thanks for supporting my argument.
---
Patrick Ferrel = pfe...@syr.edu
Buffalo '95 -=-=- Syracuse '97
Man In Motion
>another reason to leave hicksville,USA(UPSTATE NY)!! if you want to hunt
>do it with a spear or something like the indians did before your
>forefathers came over to america and SHOT them all and raped their women
>and stole their land!! your argument about having the right to bear arms
>and hunting is tired and weak!! outlaw guns from everyone and put a dent
>in crime like in europe!!
WRONG! Violent crime is not a problem in upstate NY so why should the
citizens of low crime areas be forced to forfeit their right to bear
arms because of the crime infested cities. I'm all for gun control on
a local level but not a national level. What works for some areas
doesn't make any sense and sometimes hurts other areas. If the people
of NY city, Los Angeles, Chicago, Detroit, and etc. want to ban guns
for everyone (except law enforcement officials) let them! It's a good
idea! Apparently some people are responsible enough to use guns
properly and maturely and others aren't, those that can't exercise
their second ammendment right responsibly, shouldn't have that right
at all, but those that can shouldn't lose that right because of the
morons that abuse that right!!!
MIM
eshiiii
Dhalle <mass...@future.dreamscape.com> wrote in article
<329D01...@future.dreamscape.com>...
> et9...@cnsvax.albany.edu wrote:
snipped
> another reason to leave hicksville,USA(UPSTATE NY)!! if you want to ....
Gee, Hicksville is downstate. Long island to be exact.
Just being picky today! :)
et9...@cnsvax.albany.edu
On 2 Dec 1996, Patrick A. Ferrel wrote:
> : The problem is not the tool, it's the person HOLDING it.
>
> Which is precisely why I think weapons capable of mass destruction should
> be kept away from people.
>
> Thanks for supporting my argument.
To this i would have to reply .. what are you talking about, by the same
reasoning we should take shovels away from people because someone might
get bludgeoned with it, and if you want to stay with mass destruction we
should take away automobiles, cause a well placed car crash could kill
many people.
ttmitchell
DMAT...@Albion.edu (Man In Motion) wrote:
>>another reason to leave hicksville,USA(UPSTATE NY)!! if you want to hunt
>>do it with a spear or something like the indians did before your
>>forefathers came over to america and SHOT them all and raped their women
>>and stole their land!! your argument about having the right to bear arms
>>and hunting is tired and weak!! outlaw guns from everyone and put a dent
>>in crime like in europe!!
>WRONG! Violent crime is not a problem in upstate NY so why should the
>citizens of low crime areas be forced to forfeit their right to bear
>arms because of the crime infested cities.
Excuse me? It wasn't in Syracuse where one student gunned down a high
school coach and the father of a former girlfriend, or another one
where a man went into his former place of employment and gunned down
his former boss, it was Dryden. It wasn't Buffalo where some stupid
kid went and gunned down both of his parents, then had to show up on
America's Most Wanted; I don't remember the name of the town right
now. But both of these were small towns. Do you want to modify that
statement somewhat?
--
Mitch
et9...@cnsvax.albany.edu
You quote three separate cases here and while i see the validity of the
statement that crime happens anywhere, everyone with good sense must
admin the fact that much more crime takes place in cities than in rural
areas. Because of the low education rate and high poverty rate, cities
are much more suseptible to crimes that towns and villages.
bill...@aol.com
In article
<Pine.PMDF.3.91.9612040...@cnsvax.albany.edu>,
et9...@cnsvax.albany.edu writes:
> everyone with good sense must
>admin the fact that much more crime takes place in cities than in rural
>areas. Because of the low education rate and high poverty rate, cities
>are much more suseptible to crimes that towns and villages.
>
>
Actually, much more crime takes place in cities than rural areas because
many more people live and work and visit cities than rural areas. Crime
does of course track poverty, which in turn tracks low education rates,
but that can be found in cities as well as in rural areas.
Bill Nechamen
Schenectady, NY
A person who designs something to be completely foolproof underestimates
the ingenuity of complete fools.
Man In Motion
>>>another reason to leave hicksville,USA(UPSTATE NY)!! if you want to hunt
>>>do it with a spear or something like the indians did before your
>>>forefathers came over to america and SHOT them all and raped their women
>>>and stole their land!! your argument about having the right to bear arms
>>>and hunting is tired and weak!! outlaw guns from everyone and put a dent
>>>in crime like in europe!!
>>WRONG! Violent crime is not a problem in upstate NY so why should the
>>citizens of low crime areas be forced to forfeit their right to bear
>>arms because of the crime infested cities.
>Excuse me? It wasn't in Syracuse where one student gunned down a high
>school coach and the father of a former girlfriend, or another one
>where a man went into his former place of employment and gunned down
>his former boss, it was Dryden. It wasn't Buffalo where some stupid
>kid went and gunned down both of his parents, then had to show up on
>America's Most Wanted; I don't remember the name of the town right
>now. But both of these were small towns. Do you want to modify that
>statement somewhat?
Crime is a problem in all areas, yes. But there are some areas that
have a lot less crime than others. Okay I'll modify the statement,
violent crime is not a problem in Northern, NY. It does happen but
not that frequently. I'm from Malone, NY and I've only ever heard of
two murders occurring in my town, I've also heard of the famous murder
in the Adirondacks case from around of the turn of the century. That
didn't involve a gun though, the guy pushed his wife off a rowboat on
Blue Mountain Lake. Guns don't need to be present for a violent crime
to occur. Keep in mind there are also many stabbings, should we
outlaw knives? Some people bludgeon others with such implements as
baseball bats... I guess that means we should outlaw the national
pasttime because the bats can be used as assault weapons. All I'm
trying to say is that while outlawing guns may be a good idea for some
cities and communities it may not make any sense for other
communities. This is a democracy though, why not have referendums in
all our cities offering the option to ban guns? After all the
government should be an agent of the people not a ruler of the people.
If the US population voted to repeal the second ammendment in a
referendum I would have no problem with it. If the government
repealed it without the consent of the governed I WOULD have a problem
with it. This is an issue that shouldn't be left to congress, too
many personal agendas, too many lobbyists clouding their judgement
(whether it be PETA or the NRA). This is an issue that needs to be
voted on by the masses.
Darrin
John Fereira
In article <32a35...@sunspot.albion.edu> DMAT...@Albion.edu (Man In Motion) writes:
>
>
>WRONG! Violent crime is not a problem in upstate NY
Try telling that to the parents of the two teenage girls from McClean
that were recently raped and mutilated.
--
John Fereira
fer...@isis.com
Isis Distributed Systems - Ithaca, NY
caip.rutgers.edu!halasz
> to do as well as Upstate New York. Examples: New Jersey, whose largest
> cities are NYC and Philadelphia.
I liked my old hometoun, Englewood, until around 1980 when the city council
grew greedy, and instigated a change that made dountoun a place for
wealthy suburbanites. I liked its slow, slow change. It was good for us all.
I liked also Piermont. Truth is, there was no sudden change between Bergen
Co, in NJ, and Rockland Co, in NY. They were on a continuum.
There is no witness for your thesis in the NJ that I knew.
--
/ */ /
Malek's Law: Any simple idea will be worded in the most complicated way
bc7...@binghamton.edu
upstate...downstate...upstate...downstate...upstate...downstate...It's
all relative to where you are!! If you are in NYC then upstate is
anything north of you. If you are in Syracuse then NYC is downstate, and
Lake Placid is upstate. Haven't we beat this to a pulp already?
Althought it was amusing at first, this arguement is getting out of hand.
-kristina;)
Paul D. Schreiner
> Guns don't need to be present for a violent crime
> to occur. Keep in mind there are also many stabbings, should we
> outlaw knives? Some people bludgeon others with such implements as
> baseball bats... I guess that means we should outlaw the national
> pasttime because the bats can be used as assault weapons.
that'd have to be some pretty good bat speed...
ok, anything can be used as a weapon to assault a person with,
including baseball bats, shovels, and the meatloaf i had last week. it
doesn't make it an "assault weapon"....which is something which can kill
many people very fast with little effort needed on the part of the user.
Patrick A. Ferrel
: To this i would have to reply .. what are you talking about, by the same
: get bludgeoned with it, and if you want to stay with mass destruction we
: should take away automobiles, cause a well placed car crash could kill
: many people.
To this I would have to reply...Periods are truly wonderful things. Use
them. Run on sentences are difficult to read.
Second, your reasoning is even worse then your grammar.
The primary purpose of a shovel is to dig holes. It's a very effective
tool when used for that purpose. It's a lot better than digging with a
spoon and a backhoe can be really messy. If I had to dig a hole and
didn't have a shovel to use, I don't know what I'd do.
The primary purpose of automobilies is to travel great distances cheaply.
It's a very effective tool when used for that purpose. I have a bicycle.
It's nice for when I have to travel short distances but the 150 miles
between Buffalo and Syracuse is a wee bit far. On the other hand, taking
a bus, train or plane would be far too expensive. If I had to get home
and didn't have a car to use, I'd have to bite the bullet and take a bus
or train. But I would only go if it were imperative that I go.
The primary purpose of a gun is to shoot someone or something. It's a
very effective tool when used for that purpose. I, however, have never
felt the need to shoot anyone. I fail to see why anyone would ever have
the need to shoot anyone, aside from, perhaps, when one felt his life were
in danger.
I have never been a victim of a violent crime and don't know anyone who
has. I recently helped conduct a survey that included questions about
whether people had been the victim of a violent crime and their estimates
on crime statistics.
The survey found that only 12% of the people claimed to be the victim of a
violent crime and on the whole, people overestimated the amount of crime
that exists.
In short, the Mean World Syndrome lives on in knuckle-draggers like you
who have no concept of reality today or the conditions that existed when
the Founding Fathers wrote the Second Amendment.
et9...@cnsvax.albany.edu
> In short, the Mean World Syndrome lives on in knuckle-draggers like you
> who have no concept of reality today or the conditions that existed when
> the Founding Fathers wrote the Second Amendment.
First off man, if you truly are base enough to start a reply by picking
on someones grammar and punctuation, especially on the internet, then you
must be one anal dude. Secondly, it is nice to know that we are arguing
the same side of the same point yet you seem incapable of grasping that
concept, next time follow the full thread if you want to interject ... I
apologize to the rest of the newsgroup for wasting bandwidth.
Dhalle
et9...@cnsvax.albany.edu wrote:
>
> On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, ttmitchell wrote:
>
> > DMAT...@Albion.edu (Man In Motion) wrote:
> >
> > >>do it with a spear or something like the indians did before your
> > >>forefathers came over to america and SHOT them all and raped their women
> > >>and stole their land!! your argument about having the right to bear arms
> > >>and hunting is tired and weak!! outlaw guns from everyone and put a dent
> > >>in crime like in europe!!
> >
> > >WRONG! Violent crime is not a problem in upstate NY so why should the
> > >citizens of low crime areas be forced to forfeit their right to bear
> > >arms because of the crime infested cities.
> >
> > Excuse me? It wasn't in Syracuse where one student gunned down a high
> > school coach and the father of a former girlfriend, or another one
> > where a man went into his former place of employment and gunned down
> > his former boss, it was Dryden. It wasn't Buffalo where some stupid
> > kid went and gunned down both of his parents, then had to show up on
> > America's Most Wanted; I don't remember the name of the town right
> > now. But both of these were small towns. Do you want to modify that
> > statement somewhat?
>
> admin the fact that much more crime takes place in cities than in rural
> areas. Because of the low education rate and high poverty rate, cities
> are much more suseptible to crimes that towns and villages.
i knew this would get you farmer boy deer killers in an uproar!!he he he
Dhalle
Margaret M. Robinson wrote:
> so how about a *new* upstate thread: city nickames?
> I know a few of the larger cities have some colorful pseudonyms,
> because I live in the Salt City, and previously lived in the Parlor
> City, and have friends who live in the Flower City (or is that Flour?
> <g>)
>
> Do any of the medium sized cities have nicknames and/or interesting
> stories of how they acquired their names?
>
> Margaret
well theres ROME they call that the ARMPIT city, then theres rochester
and syracuse which do a coin toss every year for the right to be called
CRIME city, um there is utica and its surrounding suburbs like new
hartford new york mills, ect. ect, which are commonly referred to as the
city and towns that always sleep*yawn* then we move on to places like
westmoreland, chadwicks, clayville, and other such places which are
known as hillbilly central or cowshit heaven
Margaret M. Robinson
Wayne Beardsley
Dhalle <mass...@future.dreamscape.com> wrote:
[snip of usual acrimonious blather]
Dhalle pardon, who are we dealing with today? Katherine Dhalle,
Evil Santa, Diamond Dave, or some other pseudo-net-o-nym?
Most of us on this group who like to know who we are dealing
with.
Wayne Beardsley
Dhalle <mass...@future.dreamscape.com> wrote:
[snip of usual acrimonious blather]
Dhalle pardon, who are we hearing from today? Katherine Dhalle,
Evil Santa, Diamond Dave, or some other pseudo-net-o-nym?
Most of us on this group would like to know who is sharing these
pearls of wisdom with us.
Scott Teilhaber
Saved me the waste of time responding to the Anal jerk.
Cheers,
Scott Teilhaber
Emmett Hoops
Well, I would have thought it had been beaten to a pulp, had the original argument been pursued. But this thread has been
destroyed by self-seeking idiots who can't seem to get their opinions aired in any other arena but this.
I had hoped for an intelligent discussion of the realities of New York City's dominance of the state, and of the realities of the
division of New York State into two or three more politically viable entities. What resulted was a bunch of Internet bullshit.
Oh well. This group is, like anything else in the public domain, ninety percent bullshit and ten percent information.
Newsgroups. Hah.
Emmett
> upstate...downstate...upstate...downstate...upstate...downstate...It's
> all relative to where you are!! If you are in NYC then upstate is
> anything north of you. If you are in Syracuse then NYC is downstate, and
> Lake Placid is upstate. Haven't we beat this to a pulp already?
> Althought it was amusing at first, this arguement is getting out of hand.
> -kristina;)
>
>
----
"God is dead." -- Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead." -- God
-Lurch-
In alt.culture.ny-upstate, Dhalle <mass...@future.dreamscape.com>
burst forth, saying:
[>Margaret M. Robinson wrote:
[>>
[>> bc7...@binghamton.edu wrote:
[>>
<SNIP>
[>well theres ROME they call that the ARMPIT city, then theres rochester
[>and syracuse which do a coin toss every year for the right to be called
[>CRIME city, um there is utica and its surrounding suburbs like new
[>hartford new york mills, ect. ect, which are commonly referred to as the
[>city and towns that always sleep*yawn* then we move on to places like
[>westmoreland, chadwicks, clayville, and other such places which are
[>known as hillbilly central or cowshit heaven
Ahh, the blatherings of the ignorant! You seem to be on the south side
of town by the names you list. You do not know when you are well off I
guess. I like having a such a place to come back to when I need ot get
away from DC area. I know its a shame that there aren't too many good
jobs to be had there, but thats they way it has been for years. I left
over twenty years ago, but go back fairly often to visit. If there was
a job there for me, I'd be back in a heartbeat.
If you hate it so much then leave! go to post toaties land (California
- land of the fruits, nuts and flakes!) or elsewhere. You aren't
helping the hometown by dragging it through the mud.
**************************************
*Brian Catlin * Pardon me, *
*lu...@radix.net * My Typo *
*HWG List Guide Manager * is showing *
**************************************
Larry H
bc7...@binghamton.edu wrote:
>upstate...downstate...upstate...downstate...upstate...downstate...It's
>all relative to where you are!! If you are in NYC then upstate is
>anything north of you. If you are in Syracuse then NYC is downstate, and
>Lake Placid is upstate. Haven't we beat this to a pulp already?
>Althought it was amusing at first, this arguement is getting out of hand.
>-kristina;)
Obviously, it has beaten you to a pulp, and you still don't
understand that no matter where you stand Lake Placid (and
Malone) are in Northern NY. :-)
Raphael Copeland
>> Do any of the medium sized cities have nicknames and/or interesting
>> stories of how they acquired their names?
>>
>> Margaret
>
>and syracuse which do a coin toss every year for the right to be called
>CRIME city, um there is utica and its surrounding suburbs like new
>hartford new york mills, ect. ect, which are commonly referred to as the
>city and towns that always sleep*yawn* then we move on to places like
>westmoreland, chadwicks, clayville, and other such places which are
>known as hillbilly central or cowshit heaven
I don't know if this is even a serious thread, but what the hell...
As I went to Binghsmton University, I know that Binghamton is the
"Carousel City". I have also heard Ithaca referred to as the "Little
Apple" because of the large number of boutiques and such.
Another one, which really isn't really upstate (unless you're from the
city and don't get out much) is Yonkers (the 5th largest city in New
York State), which is known as the "Terrace City". The west side of
the city facing the Palisades is sloped in a terrace-like way.
Incidentally, I took a drive to Rome one boring Sunday. I agree - It
was pretty disappointing.
-- Raph Copeland
r...@cloud9.net
Patrick A. Ferrel
: First off man, if you truly are base enough to start a reply by picking
: must be one anal dude.
gosh how silly of me to believe that one should make a conscious effort
to follow the rules of grammar does he write like that on paper or on a
word processor would he turn in a paper or send a letter a friend written
like that i happen to take great care to make sure my writing is as proper
as it can be when i participate in a serious discussion clarity is already
difficult on this media without writing like ee cummings.
Patrick A. Ferrel
: difficult on this media without writing like ee cummings.
On this MEDIUM that's supposed to say. Yes, I know media is plural.
John Fereira
In article <32a79816...@news1.radix.net> lu...@radix.net writes:
>
>If you hate it so much then leave! go to post toaties land (California
>- land of the fruits, nuts and flakes!) or elsewhere.
You've never actually been to California, have you?
John - 5th generation Native Californian
John Fereira
In article <32addcf4...@news.cloud9.net> r...@cloud9.net (Raphael Copeland) writes:
>
>I don't know if this is even a serious thread, but what the hell...
>
>As I went to Binghsmton University, I know that Binghamton is the
>"Carousel City". I have also heard Ithaca referred to as the "Little
>Apple" because of the large number of boutiques and such.
the Carousel Mall and the Dewitt mall also has a carousel in it.
I've seen an inordinate number of carousels in other upstate cites
as well.
Glenn Kuntz
fer...@isis.com (John Fereira) wrote:
>What is it about carousel's and upstate New York. Syracuse has
>the Carousel Mall and the Dewitt mall also has a carousel in it.
>I've seen an inordinate number of carousels in other upstate cites
>as well.
>
>--
>John Fereira
>fer...@isis.com
>Isis Distributed Systems - Ithaca, NY
They're part of Upstate NY's *CULTURE*! :-)
--
Live Well Glenn Kuntz
Laugh Often mailto:crok...@frontiernet.net
Love Much The CROKINOLE Board
Play Crokinole http://www.frontiernet.net/~crokinol
ttmitchell
bill...@aol.com wrote:
>In article
><Pine.PMDF.3.91.9612040...@cnsvax.albany.edu>,
>et9...@cnsvax.albany.edu writes:
>> everyone with good sense must
>>admin the fact that much more crime takes place in cities than in rural
>>areas. Because of the low education rate and high poverty rate, cities
>>are much more suseptible to crimes that towns and villages.
>>
>>
>Actually, much more crime takes place in cities than rural areas because
>many more people live and work and visit cities than rural areas. Crime
>does of course track poverty, which in turn tracks low education rates,
>but that can be found in cities as well as in rural areas.
What's more, and less understandable to me, is that in the rural areas
most of the crime committed is by people who know their victims,
whereas in the cities crime is indiscriminate. So why would I feel
more comfortable that someone I know who doesn't like me has a gun
than someone I don't know having one, if that makes any sense?
--
Mitch
et9...@cnsvax.albany.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Eric Tucker * _____ __________ _____.___. ____ __. |
| ET9...@cnsvax.albany.edu * / _ \ \______ \\__ | || |/ _| |
| tuc...@cs.albany.edu * / /_\ \ | _/ / | || < |
| "If tyranny is the law, * / | \ | | \ \____ || | \ |
| Revolution is the order. * \____|__ / |____|_ / / ______||____|__ \ |
| They can jail the resistor * \/ \/ \/ \/ |
| But not the resistance." * |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~sXe~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wowo this is a first, someone who is so anal they correct their own
grammatic errors.
Joe B.
On Fri, 06 Dec 1996 08:44:49 GMT, r...@cloud9.net (Raphael Copeland)
wrote:
[snipped]
>As I went to Binghsmton University, I know that Binghamton is the
>"Carousel City". I have also heard Ithaca referred to as the "Little
>Apple" because of the large number of boutiques and such.
>
>-- Raph Copeland
> r...@cloud9.net
Binghamton's nickname has always been "The Parlor City". The
"Carousel City" has only been used for the past few years.
Margaret M. Robinson
Glenn Kuntz <crok...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>fer...@isis.com (John Fereira) wrote:
>>What is it about carousel's and upstate New York. Syracuse has
>>the Carousel Mall and the Dewitt mall also has a carousel in it.
>>I've seen an inordinate number of carousels in other upstate cites
>>as well.
>>
>>--
>>John Fereira
>>fer...@isis.com
>>Isis Distributed Systems - Ithaca, NY
>They're part of Upstate NY's *CULTURE*! :-)
One of the best preserved historical carousels in Upstate New York is
the outdoor carousel at Recreation Park in Binghamton. The story I
heard when living there was it was donated by one of the local wealthy
families (something to do with Endicott-Johnson maybe? I can't
remember, someone from that area can comment, perhaps), and that one
of the conditions on which it was donated to the City was that
admission would thereafter be *free*, forever. At any rate, it still
is, unlike the carousels here in Syracuse at the malls. Besides, it's
got much better atmosphere! The only other outdoor carousel I know of
still in operation in a Northeast city is the one in downtown
Hartford, Connecticut. Are there others?
Margaret
Patrick A. Ferrel
: Wowo this is a first, someone who is so anal they correct their own
: grammatic errors.
Boy, you just love that word, don't you? Let me guess. Your mommy taught
you a new word and now you want to impress everyone with your extensive
vocabulary.
I can't believe I'm being flamed by a guy with an eight-line sig. What a
wanker.
Tano...@world.std.com
>What is it about carousel's and upstate New York. Syracuse has
>the Carousel Mall and the Dewitt mall also has a carousel in it.
>I've seen an inordinate number of carousels in other upstate cites
>as well.
I can't speak for the rest of the state, but the legend in Binghamton
goes something like this:
The area was pretty much built by the Endicott-Johnson shoe company.
One of the Johnson brothers (I can't remember which one) loved
carousels as a child but was so poor that his mother could never give
him the few cents he needed to ride one. So when he was a rich
benefactor in the triple cities area (Binghamton, Endicott and Johnson
City) he built parks with carousels. Each built with the condition
that it be operated for free for as long as it's open.
In the last 10 years or so, a number of residents started a campaign
to make the carousel the tourist attraction of the Tri-Cities area.
You'll even find carousel horses lining the shoping district along the
downtown. I remember when I lived there (about a year and a half ago)
one of the horses was stolen. It made big news since they were fairly
expensive to put in.
Chuck Tanowitz
-Lurch-
In alt.culture.ny-upstate, fer...@isis.com (John Fereira) burst
forth, saying:
[>In article <32a79816...@news1.radix.net> lu...@radix.net writes:
[>>
[>>If you hate it so much then leave! go to post toaties land (California
[>>- land of the fruits, nuts and flakes!) or elsewhere.
[>
[>You've never actually been to California, have you?
[>
[>John - 5th generation Native Californian
[>
I beg to differ - I lived there for a long spell. Even some of the
natives there say the same thing.
Larry H
r...@cloud9.net (Raphael Copeland) wrote:
snip to
>Incidentally, I took a drive to Rome one boring Sunday. I agree - It
>was pretty disappointing.
You mean Rome, the Copper City.
Syracuse is Salt City.
Utica is Sin City.
When I was growing up Clinton was Monkey Town.
Andy Williams
In <32a8fd1f...@news.spectra.net>, jgb...@spectra.net (Joe B.) writes:
>Binghamton's nickname has always been "The Parlor City". The
>"Carousel City" has only been used for the past few years.
went PC, the mascot was an Indian, or Native American, nicknamed
the Saltine Warrior.
--
Andy Williams <Team OS/2>
andy...@esslink.com http://www.esslink.com/~andywlms/index.html
(Addresses subject to imminent change)
Rebecca Brynteson
Patrick A. Ferrel (pfe...@newstand.syr.edu) wrote:
: The primary purpose of a gun is to shoot someone or something. It's a
: very effective tool when used for that purpose. I, however, have never
: felt the need to shoot anyone. I fail to see why anyone would ever have
: the need to shoot anyone, aside from, perhaps, when one felt his life were
: in danger.
How about the "something" you fail to address in this post? Have you
ever been to a gun store? The people there want to shoot at somethings
if they want to shoot anything at all. Targets, clay pigeons, etc., are
difficult to shoot well and when you can (iff you can), you feel a
tremendous sense of accomplishment. It is a sport in many different
ways, and although the American stations refused to even address the gun
sports in the Olympics, Americans won many medals, including a gold medal
to the youngest person competeing in the Olympics and one to the oldest
person competing in the Olympics. I seriously doubt that either of these
people learned how to use guns to shoot people.
--
Becca Brynteson
"I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library."
--Jorge Luis Borges
*Elizabeth T Eisenstatt
On 6 Dec 1996, Glenn Kuntz wrote:
> fer...@isis.com (John Fereira) wrote:
>
> >What is it about carousel's and upstate New York. Syracuse has
> >the Carousel Mall and the Dewitt mall also has a carousel in it.
> >I've seen an inordinate number of carousels in other upstate cites
> >as well.
> >
> >--
>
> They're part of Upstate NY's *CULTURE*! :-)
>
> --
>
gee, and here I thought it was just plain old nice that the Roseland
Carousel remained intact and functional rather than dismantled and sitting
in "collectors" livingroom windows.
Curly Sue
Cordo...@aol.com (Larry H) wrote:
>r...@cloud9.net (Raphael Copeland) wrote:
>snip to
>>Incidentally, I took a drive to Rome one boring Sunday. I agree - It
>>was pretty disappointing.
>You mean Rome, the Copper City.
>Syracuse is Salt City.
>Utica is Sin City.
Officially, it's the Handshake City :P Hasn't unofficially been Sin
City for a long time.
Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
Patrick A. Ferrel
Rebecca Brynteson (rbry...@news-server.engin.umich.edu) wrote:
: How about the "something" you fail to address in this post? Have you
: ever been to a gun store? The people there want to shoot at somethings
: if they want to shoot anything at all. Targets, clay pigeons, etc., are
Fine. Go to a rifle range. Shoot all the targets and clay pigeons you
want. One doesn't have to own a gun to do that. Just rent one there.
They can make a person leave his car keys or have a secure perimeter fence
or whatever to make sure he doesn't run off with it and shoot a person.
There. You get to shoot at targets and the rest of us don't have to worry
about a nut getting a hold of your gun and shooting anyone.
kevxu
I wonder what practical advantages might accrue to "the other side,"
that is, say, Westchester, NYC and Long Island if the state
were to divide into two separate states?
Jack
Romeyn Prescott
> One of the best preserved historical carousels in Upstate New York is
> the outdoor carousel at Recreation Park in Binghamton. The story I
>
<DELETIA>
>
> Margaret
Are you actually referring to Binghamton as being UPSTATE?!? Have you seen
a MAP recently?? I am from Keeseville (Plattsburgh area). We used to call
ourselves "upstate". But most people think Poughkeepsie is "upstate" for
some reason.
Maybe we should have a "northern New York" newsgroup. But I'd probably be
the only one there. Internet? Hell, we only got 'lectricity last week!
...ROMeyn
PAMT...@ix.netcom.com
Larry H wrote:
>
> r...@cloud9.net (Raphael Copeland) wrote:
> snip to
>
> >Incidentally, I took a drive to Rome one boring Sunday. I agree - It
> >was pretty disappointing.
>
> You mean Rome, the Copper City.
> Syracuse is Salt City.
> Utica is Sin City.
>
Buffalo is sometimes referred to as Little Gotham.
Wayne Beardsley
s...@interport.net (Curly Sue) wrote:
>>Utica is Sin City.
>Officially, it's the Handshake City :P Hasn't unofficially been Sin
>City for a long time.
I remember Utica being called "Sin City" growing up in the
50s and 60s. Does anyone know the history of that
nickname? There was always an unstated but firmly
implied allusion to the mafia and vice but never heard
any real specifics.
Sue, BTW, how do you like your new ISP? Pipeline
as you probably know has virtually disappeared
except for the domain name. Service is vastly
improved under the Mindspring regime however.
Wayne B
Dan Warren
>>Utica is Sin City.
>Officially, it's the Handshake City :P Hasn't unofficially been Sin
>City for a long time.
>
>
>Sue(tm)
>Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
Sin City.... John D MacDonald wrote a book many years ago about a fictional
upstate city run by the mob. guess what city.
Several of my sister's friends parents had rather dubious connections.....
Can tell some interesting stories about the Utic PD.
NHCS Class of 67
_
(_) Daniel Warren, RPh
_______// Marion NY
(________) Clinical Staff Pharmacist - Strong Memorial Hospital
\ / dwa...@frontiernet.net
| Rx |
/______\
(________)
-Lurch-
In alt.culture.ny-upstate, way...@pipeline.com (Wayne Beardsley) burst
forth, saying:
[>s...@interport.net (Curly Sue) wrote:
[>
[>>>Utica is Sin City.
[>>Officially, it's the Handshake City :P Hasn't unofficially been Sin
[>>City for a long time.
[>
[>I remember Utica being called "Sin City" growing up in the
[>50s and 60s. Does anyone know the history of that
[>nickname? There was always an unstated but firmly
[>implied allusion to the mafia and vice but never heard
[>any real specifics.
[>
Yup, It was the same as I was growing up there in the 60's and early
70's. The Mafia influence was more than just a rumor. There were a
number of family represents up from the city to see thier country
relatives - who happened to congregate arounf Utica of all places. I
know for a fact that some of my classmates there were involved back
then.
According to my relations still there, the families are still very
active in the areas economy (and lack thereof).
Rich Pearson
I believe that there is an outdoor carousel in Ontario Beach
State Park in Charlotte, which is on Lake Ontario, and also
within the borders of the City of Rochester. I believe that it
still is used in the summer, but I was very rarely in Rochester
during the summer, much less up at Charlotte. (I did manage to
hit it before I graduated in May (Can't miss ABBOTT's!!!))
:-) Rich
--
****************************************************************
Rich Pearson U of Rochester, '96
Project Engineer, Pacer/RAM
****************************************************************
Charles M. Vamossy
In <58i5tp$p...@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> kevxu
It is a well kept secret and purposely clouded issue: just how much
taxes and spending crosses the up and downstate boundary. Both upstate
and downstate politicians love the fact that they can point to the
other side and claim "they" have an unfair advantage. Given the
tremendeous political advantage they derive from it, I doubt that they
would ever seriously consider giving the downstate and upstate areas
complete, absolute financial home rule.
NYS, including upstate, certainly derives a lot of income from business
taxes it collects in New York City. As a world class trading center, a
lot of goods, and the vast majority of the United States' finacial
transactions (NYSE, Commodity Exchanges, etc.) change hands three, all
of which are taxed by the State. A large number of foreigners who are
NOT immigrants (Japanese, Germans, etc) live in the area working for
their companies' New York branches. They all pay taxes like everyone
else, including Social Security and State taxes, of course, while using
a lot less than their share of the benefits, since most of them receive
their education abroad and spend their retirement years there, also.
Downstate also receives the vast majority of tourists who vist our
state. While many upstaters resent that the world equates New York
with New York City, it doesn't hurt the tax coffers... Of course, many
tourists also visit Niagara Falls, but I think the total tourist
dollars, especially hotel stays and taxes, are spent mainly in NYC. In
Niagara, many tourists opt for staying in Canada, which I believe is
slightly cheaper.
Of course, downstate also has a large number of benefit recipients,
welfare, medical dependent, etc, who receive among other things, state
aid. New York City's past tradition of liberal social benefits also
attract poor people, but I think that has changed drastically in the
last few years.
So the question Jack poses is a good one: if downstate were to have
total finacial home rule (keep all taxes collected and pay all expenses
and benefits) and upstate have the same, who would come out better? I
don't know... but it would be interesting to find out.
As far as other changes, that such a move would bring about, I doubt
that there would be many. Crossing the "intrastate" boundary would be
no different than crossing the NJ or CT border today, something some of
us are doing twice a day now. Our electricity now comes mainly from
Canada, our dairy from the northeast states, etc. As far as commerce
with our upstate neighbors, whatever there is, it will remain the same.
Business people care a lot less about rhetoric than profits.
Charlie Vamossy
John Fereira
In article <32aa32c9...@news1.radix.net> lu...@radix.net writes:
>In alt.culture.ny-upstate, fer...@isis.com (John Fereira) burst
>forth, saying:
>
>[>In article <32a79816...@news1.radix.net> lu...@radix.net writes:
>[>>
>[>>If you hate it so much then leave! go to post toaties land (California
>[>>- land of the fruits, nuts and flakes!) or elsewhere.
>[>
>[>You've never actually been to California, have you?
>[>
>[>John - 5th generation Native Californian
>[>
>
>I beg to differ - I lived there for a long spell. Even some of the
>natives there say the same thing.
Where is "there"? California is a very large state with many diverse
communities, most of which don't not match the stereotypical California.
It's sort of like telling someone that you live in New York and then
having to explain that "no, it's not crowded at all where you live".
Secondly, how can you be sure the people you were talking to were natives?
alcue
Smallbany.
Margaret M. Robinson
pre...@potsdam.edu (Romeyn Prescott) wrote:
>> One of the best preserved historical carousels in Upstate New York is
>> the outdoor carousel at Recreation Park in Binghamton. The story I
>>
><DELETIA>
>>
>> Margaret
>Are you actually referring to Binghamton as being UPSTATE?!? Have you seen
>a MAP recently??
I don't need to look at a map, having lived in the Southern Tier of
upstate New York and now in Central New York, for many years.
Binghamton is in the Southern Tier. And in Upstate New York. :)
> I am from Keeseville (Plattsburgh area). We used to call
>ourselves "upstate". But most people think Poughkeepsie is "upstate" for
>some reason.
New York City people think Poughkeepsie "upstate" perhaps, but surely
not "most people" ? This one's been talked to death already here,
hasn't it? It's all a matter of perspective.
Man In Motion
This isn't really a nickname, but when the dance mix of Freddy
Mercury's "Living On My Own" was really popular in Canada (and some
places in the states), I made up my own version called "Living In
Malone."
MIM
Larry H
s...@interport.net (Curly Sue) wrote:
>>Utica is Sin City.
>Officially, it's the Handshake City :P Hasn't unofficially been Sin
>City for a long time.
>Sue(tm)
>Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
You sound like a sin city natural. Say don't try to tell
the band *Sin City* from Utica that Utica isn't the Sin City.
They'll make you do the Chicken Dance.
Larry Hogan
Corey
In article <E22oJ...@world.std.com>, Tano...@world.std.com wrote:
>
>>What is it about carousel's and upstate New York. Syracuse has
>>the Carousel Mall and the Dewitt mall also has a carousel in it.
>>I've seen an inordinate number of carousels in other upstate cites
>>as well.
>
>
>goes something like this:
>
>The area was pretty much built by the Endicott-Johnson shoe company.
>One of the Johnson brothers (I can't remember which one) loved
>carousels as a child but was so poor that his mother could never give
>him the few cents he needed to ride one. So when he was a rich
>benefactor in the triple cities area (Binghamton, Endicott and Johnson
>City) he built parks with carousels. Each built with the condition
>that it be operated for free for as long as it's open.
>
>In the last 10 years or so, a number of residents started a campaign
>to make the carousel the tourist attraction of the Tri-Cities area.
>You'll even find carousel horses lining the shoping district along the
>downtown. I remember when I lived there (about a year and a half ago)
>one of the horses was stolen. It made big news since they were fairly
>expensive to put in.
>
>Chuck Tanowitz
>
with the jones's (carousel mall) I know the carousel at carousel mall was
originally from Roseland Park In Cannidagua, NY and was bought after the
amusement park closed.. Before there, the carousel was at some amusement park
at coney Island. I forget the name of the guy who owns carousel mall, but he
had the whole carousel completly refurbished to like new condition as the
centerpiece for his mall..
Rich Ives
Margaret M. Robinson wrote:
>
> One of the best preserved historical carousels in Upstate New York is
> the outdoor carousel at Recreation Park in Binghamton. The story I
> families (something to do with Endicott-Johnson maybe? I can't
> remember, someone from that area can comment, perhaps), and that one
> of the conditions on which it was donated to the City was that
> admission would thereafter be *free*, forever.
> Margaret
The Binghamton New York area (Binghamton, Endicott, Johnson City) has
six outdoor carousels (Hence "Carousel City). They are all gifts from
Endicott-Johnson, as are several parks in the area. They are all "free"
as a condition of the gift. They are located at 1) Rec Park 2) Ross Park
3) Highland Park 4) CFJ Park 5) West Endicott Park and 6) (Name
Escapes) on Oak Hill Ave in Endicott.
Then a bunch of filler to beat the "quoted text exceeds new text BS
--
Rich Ives
TMS Program Control - Lockheed Martin Federal Systems - Owego, NY
rich...@lmco.com
Julia C. Tenney
Dan Warren wrote:
> >>Utica is Sin City.
> >Officially, it's the Handshake City :P Hasn't unofficially been Sin
> >City for a long time.
> Sin City.... John D MacDonald wrote a book many years ago about a fictional
> upstate city run by the mob. guess what city.
> NHCS Class of 67
new hartford central school?
Paul D. Schreiner
PAMT...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Buffalo is sometimes referred to as Little Gotham.
not when i was living there...at least not by anyone in the area. we
always referred to it as the "queen city", in reference to both its
(faded) great lakes importance but also its second-place ranking in the
state.
Joe Mezzanini
>
>According to my relations still there, the families are still very
>active in the areas economy (and lack thereof).
>
The 'old' type of criminals that you are referring
to are not very active in cities like Utica. That
went out in the early 80's ...
The type of crime Utica has now is very typical
of any urban area.
http://www.borg.com/~uticapba/index.html
Regards,
Joe
-Lurch-
In alt.culture.ny-upstate, "Julia C. Tenney" <omps...@psaver.com>
burst forth, saying:
Yup! NHCS Class of 76
Dan - nothing much worth reporting from the reunion - Bunch showed up
- had a good tome went home. Depression set in - how come everyone
looks like our parents now?
Dan Warren
>
>Dan - nothing much worth reporting from the reunion - Bunch showed up
>- had a good tome went home. Depression set in - how come everyone
>looks like our parents now?
>
>**************************************
>*Brian Catlin * Pardon me, *
>*lu...@radix.net * My Typo *
>*HWG List Guide Manager * is showing *
>**************************************
Went to my 20th and 25th. That's all we've had. Both were clambakes. Had
about 1/3 of the class show up.
20th was better than 25th.
Dan Warren
In article <32B047...@psaver.com>, omps...@psaver.com wrote:
>Dan Warren wrote:
>
>> NHCS Class of 67
>new hartford central school?
Yep, Class of 67 New Hartford. Sister was Class of 72.
Dan Chmielewski
Interesting thread Margaret...
the ones I know...Rome = the Copper City (because of Revere Copper & Brass)
a.k.a, the City of American History.
Utica = The Handshake City )some presidential candidate shook thousands of
hands there in the early part of the century.
Syracuse = the Salt City
Rochester = the Silver City
Buffalo = the Queen City
Watertown = Snowtown USA
Dan
In article <585he3$2dr$1...@newsfeed.dreamscape.com> marg...@dreamscape.com
(Margaret M. Robinson) writes:>From: marg...@dreamscape.com (Margaret M.
Robinson)>Subject: Upstate City nicknames
>Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 04:03:47 GMT
>bc7...@binghamton.edu wrote:
>>upstate...downstate...upstate...downstate...upstate...downstate...It's
>>all relative to where you are!! If you are in NYC then upstate is
>>anything north of you. If you are in Syracuse then NYC is downstate, and
>>Lake Placid is upstate. Haven't we beat this to a pulp already?
>>Althought it was amusing at first, this arguement is getting out of hand.
>>-kristina;)
>You're probably right, kristina,
>so how about a *new* upstate thread: city nickames?
>I know a few of the larger cities have some colorful pseudonyms,
>because I live in the Salt City, and previously lived in the Parlor
>City, and have friends who live in the Flower City (or is that Flour?
><g>)
>Do any of the medium sized cities have nicknames and/or interesting
>stories of how they acquired their names?
>Margaret
Curly Sue
dc...@writer.ultranet.com (Dan Chmielewski) wrote:
>Utica = The Handshake City )some presidential candidate shook thousands of
>hands there in the early part of the century.
No- the "Handshake City" was the result of a contest to come up with a
new nickname. The handshake bit is supposed to imply friendliness and
there's even a logo of... hands shaking!
Utica used to be the "City of Elms" before Dutch Elm Disease decimated
the elm trees.
John Fereira
In article <dchm.209...@writer.ultranet.com> dc...@writer.ultranet.com (Dan Chmielewski) writes:
>
>Interesting thread Margaret...
>the ones I know...Rome = the Copper City (because of Revere Copper & Brass)
>a.k.a, the City of American History.
Roscoe, NY - Trout Town, USA
Dan Warren
In article <dchm.209...@writer.ultranet.com>, dc...@writer.ultranet.com (Dan Chmielewski) wrote:
>Interesting thread Margaret...
>the ones I know...Rome = the Copper City (because of Revere Copper & Brass)
>a.k.a, the City of American History.
>
>hands there in the early part of the century.
Also Sin City from the days of mob control
>
>Rochester = the Silver City
Also know as the Flour City for all the flour mills that used to be on the
Gennesee River by the High Falls
Albert J. Baris
I think you have it wrong when you say Rochester NY is the Flour City.
It is the Flower City, named as such do to the abundant of lilacs in the
community, especially at Highland Park. It is also known as the Lilac City.
--
Albert J. Baris
aba...@portby.tds.net
http://www.vivanet.com/~bfh/index.html
Jim Jarrett
In article <01bbeb40$116226a0$cdd5...@baris.net>, "Albert J. Baris"
<aba...@portby.tds.net> wrote:
> I think you have it wrong when you say Rochester NY is the Flour City.
> It is the Flower City, named as such do to the abundant of lilacs in the
> community, especially at Highland Park. It is also known as the Lilac City.
>
>
Nope, it's been both. Ra-cha-cha got its start with mills along the
Genesee grinding grain into flour. Well, there aren't too many of them
left, so it
got changed to "flower" because of the lilacs.
We're also the "World's Centre For Imaging," with center spelled in the
European style....tries to make us look cosmopolitan, I guess.
Don and/or Karen Glass
Albert J. Baris wrote:
>
> I think you have it wrong when you say Rochester NY is the Flour City.
> It is the Flower City, named as such do to the abundant of lilacs in the
> community, especially at Highland Park. It is also known as the Lilac City.
>
Rochester was the Flour City before it was the Flower City. Flour mills
below the waterfalls in the Genesee near downtown processed wheat grown
in the surrounding area and added greatly to the city's early growth.
Crop failures in the 1850's era ended that, and milling moved further
west.
After that, one of the biggest industries in the area was the nursery
business. Trees and plants and seeds were grown and shipped (and sold
via catalog, even back then). This all predates Highland Park; I think
the lilacs weren't in before the 1890's or so.
If you're interested, check out Blake McKelvey's series of books on the
history of Rochester at the Rundel Library. There was a Rochester
before Kodak and Xerox!
Karen
Dave Grossman
Albert J. Baris (aba...@portby.tds.net) wrote:
: I think you have it wrong when you say Rochester NY is the Flour City.
: It is the Flower City, named as such do to the abundant of lilacs in the
: community, especially at Highland Park. It is also known as the Lilac City.
Thus the "Lilac Festival" every year in the Flower City.
I don't recall any major bake-offs celebrating a Flour City ;)
-Dave
--
Dave Grossman | "Life's short...
Geneseo State University| Play pinball"
dg...@mdx.ac.uk | "It has to warm up,
tf...@j51.com | SO IT CAN KILL YOU!" -TAF
-----------------------------------------------------------------
WWW: http://www.j51.com/~tfth -- pinball, music, and more.
London Pinball Directory: http://www.mdx.ac.uk/~dg076
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Jarrett
> I think you have it wrong when you say Rochester NY is the Flour City.
> It is the Flower City, named as such do to the abundant of lilacs in the
> community, especially at Highland Park. It is also known as the Lilac City.
>
>
Nope, it's been both. Ra-cha-cha got its start with mills along the
Jim Jarrett
*Elizabeth T Eisenstatt
On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Margaret M. Robinson wrote:
> fer...@isis.com (John Fereira) wrote:
>
> >In article <dchm.209...@writer.ultranet.com> dc...@writer.ultranet.com (Dan Chmielewski) writes:
> >>
> >>Interesting thread Margaret...
> >>the ones I know...Rome = the Copper City (because of Revere Copper & Brass)
> >>a.k.a, the City of American History.
> >
> >Here's one that I haven't seen mentioned...
>
> >Roscoe, NY - Trout Town, USA
>
> >--
> >John Fereira
> >fer...@isis.com
> >Isis Distributed Systems - Ithaca, NY
>
> And I just remembered that Phelps, New York calls itself the Cabbage
> Capital of the World, doesn't it?
>
> I think they have an actual cabbage festival each year too.
Sour Kraut! Not cabbage....it's the yearly Kraut festival complete with
parade, cooking contests , music and rides for the kiddies. Oh sure, Kraut
was once cabbage, but it's a totally different entity unto itself. And no,
I never could stomach the stuff plain, in a salad or <gasp> hidden in
chocolate cake.
Jim Ming
Margaret M. Robinson wrote:
>
> pre...@potsdam.edu (Romeyn Prescott) wrote:
>
> >> One of the best preserved historical carousels in Upstate New York is
> >> the outdoor carousel at Recreation Park in Binghamton. The story I
> >>
> >>
> >> Margaret
>
> >Are you actually referring to Binghamton as being UPSTATE?!? Have you seen
> >a MAP recently??
>
> I don't need to look at a map, having lived in the Southern Tier of
> upstate New York and now in Central New York, for many years.
> Binghamton is in the Southern Tier. And in Upstate New York. :)
>
> > I am from Keeseville (Plattsburgh area). We used to call
> >ourselves "upstate". But most people think Poughkeepsie is "upstate" for
> >some reason.
>
> New York City people think Poughkeepsie "upstate" perhaps, but surely
> not "most people" ? This one's been talked to death already here,
> hasn't it? It's all a matter of perspective.
>
> >Maybe we should have a "northern New York" newsgroup. But I'd probably be
> >the only one there. Internet? Hell, we only got 'lectricity last week!
>
> >...ROMeyn
As a Poughkeepsie native, I always thought we were in "The Mid Hudson
Valley". Upstate is Albany and north/adirondack region, CNY is
Syracuse/Utica/Rome, Western NY is Rochester/Buffalo, etc. But "upstate"
generically is anything N of Westchester, to me. -A Le Moyne grad
Dan Warren
In article <5954oa$704$1...@newsfeed.dreamscape.com>, marg...@dreamscape.com (Margaret M. Robinson) wrote:
tems - Ithaca, NY
>
>And I just remembered that Phelps, New York calls itself the Cabbage
>Capital of the World, doesn't it?
>
>I think they have an actual cabbage festival each year too.
Actually they have a Sauerkraut Festival every year
Kim Burkard
In article 1g...@node2.frontiernet.net, dwa...@frontiernet.net (Dan Warren) writes:
>In article <5954oa$704$1...@newsfeed.dreamscape.com>, marg...@dreamscape.com (Margaret M. Robinson) wrote:
>tems - Ithaca, NY
>>And I just remembered that Phelps, New York calls itself the Cabbage
>>Capital of the World, doesn't it?
>>
>>I think they have an actual cabbage festival each year too.
>
>Actually they have a Sauerkraut Festival every year
Yup. If I rightly recall, the brand of Sauerkraut that was
produced in Phelps was named Silver Floss. And they do still
have a Sauerkraut festival every year. I haven't been in 2-3
years, but I did always like the chocolate cake you could get
there that had sauerkraut in it. It sounds weird, but it tasted
quite normal and quite good. ;)
If we're talking nicknames, how about Phelps' neighbor,
Sulpher Gulch? (ie Clifton Springs) Nothing quite smells
the same as "downtown" Clifton Springs on a hot summer
day. The aroma of sulpher from the open sulpher springs
is quite unmistakable. Nothing else quite tastes like
sulpher water either. (I grew up in Clifton Springs and
our well water was very sulphery!)
-kim
---
Kimberly Burkard | _ Everything I needed to know in life, I
Eastman Kodak Company| _____C .._. learned from my ferret:
Rochester, New York | ____/ \___/ Frolic and dance for joy often, have
bur...@kodak.com |<____/\_---\_\ no fear or worries, and enjoy life.
Judy Scott
I came on this discussion late..Syracuse is Salt City
--
These opinions are mine and you have to get your own..
Judy Scott
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY
js...@cornell.edu
Dave Hitt
Cohoes, which was once the third largest mill city in the world, was
known as The Spindle City. Troy, the home of Arrow shirts, is still
sometimes referred to as The Collar City. (When Arrow started their
gimmick was that the collars were removable, so you could just clean
the Collar instead of washing the shirt.) One of the bridges into the
city is The Collar City Bridge.
----
Tired of dealing with spam? Call a local BBS.
Sick of flames? Call a local BBS.
Sick of waiting forever for downloads? Call a local BBS.
Saratoga Avenue: 14 lines, 14 CDs, No Flames, No Spam. 518-899-3292
Rich Pearson
Albert J. Baris (aba...@portby.tds.net) wrote:
: I think you have it wrong when you say Rochester NY is the
Flour City.
: It is the Flower City, named as such do to the abundant of
lilacs in the
: community, especially at Highland Park. It is also known as the
Lilac City.
Thus the "Lilac Festival" every year in the Flower City.
I don't recall any major bake-offs celebrating a Flour City ;)
-Dave
Actually, I believe that Rochester was called the Flour city at
one time. Evidently it was a big milling town for the Southern
Tier. At least, that's what I saw at the museum up at High
Falls. Now, because of Highland Park, it's called the Flower
City.
:-) Rich
--
****************************************************************
Rich Pearson U of Rochester, '96
Project Engineer, Pacer/RAM
****************************************************************
eshiiii
Corey <Co...@zeus.odyssey.net> wrote in article
snipped
> Well I believe the dewitt mall (shoppingtown) added their carousel to
keep up
> with the jones's (carousel mall) I know the carousel at carousel mall was
> originally from Roseland Park In Cannidagua, NY and was bought after the
> amusement park closed.. Before there, the carousel was at some amusement
park
> at coney Island. I forget the name of the guy who owns carousel mall, but
he
> had the whole carousel completly refurbished to like new condition as the
> centerpiece for his mall..
>
>
The carousel at the Carousel Mall was originally in Long Branch park at
the other end of Onondaga Lake from the mall. I know it was at Roseland
for years but have never heard the it was in Coney Island between the time
it left Syracuse and the it's Roseland stint. Does anybody have anymore
info on this?
Also the develpers of Shopppingtown Mall (Wilmorite,I believe) decided to
put merry-go-rounds in all their malls a few years back to keep in
competition with everyone.
Allegra Boverman
In <59bfr9$3d5$1...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> Rich Pearson <10246...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>Albert J. Baris (aba...@portby.tds.net) wrote:
>: I think you have it wrong when you say Rochester NY is the
>Flour City.
>: It is the Flower City, named as such do to the abundant of
>lilacs in the
>: community, especially at Highland Park. It is also known as the
>Lilac City.
>:
>Thus the "Lilac Festival" every year in the Flower City.
>I don't recall any major bake-offs celebrating a Flour City ;)
>-Dave
>Actually, I believe that Rochester was called the Flour city at
>one time. Evidently it was a big milling town for the Southern
>Tier. At least, that's what I saw at the museum up at High
>Falls. Now, because of Highland Park, it's called the Flower
>City.
>:-) Rich
ROchester is both the Flour and FLower city cause the symbol of the city, a
flower/water wheel together shows that ... the city was known for its mills
and for its seed growing.
Take a look at the rochester website and see the city logo as described
above.
--
Allegra Boverman ab0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu all...@cif.rochester.edu
all...@jobboard.com all...@clarityconnect.com
"... And as I try to make my way to the ordinary world, I will learn to
survive." - Duran Duran
joanne hihn
Dave Hitt (hit...@wizvax.net) wrote:
: Cohoes, which was once the third largest mill city in the world, was
: known as The Spindle City. Troy, the home of Arrow shirts, is still
: sometimes referred to as The Collar City. (When Arrow started their
: gimmick was that the collars were removable, so you could just clean
: the Collar instead of washing the shirt.) One of the bridges into the
: city is The Collar City Bridge.
In the same area, I believe Schenectady is sometimes known as the
Electric City. If so, they weren't living up to the name the other
day, when a blackout wiped out juice over most of the city!
Dick
Daniel Watts
>>-Dave
>>:-) Rich
OK, my sister (who must think I am a total geek) insisted that I reply to
to this thread to clear things up......
Rochester was the original BOOM-TOWN in the early 19th century. The Erie
Canal provided the transportation and the Falls of the Genesee provided the
power that transformed sleepy Rochesterville into the major milling center
in the Country. Remember, there was little Westward expansion at this
point, so central and Western NY were the nation's bread-basket. So
Rochester was the FLOUR CITY
As wheat and grain farming moved west, so did Rochester's mills. Later in
the 19th century, though, the Ellwanger and Barry nursery bacame the latgest
commercial nursery in the country. So Rochester was the FLOWER CITY. All
that is left of the once vast Ellwanger and Barry farms and nursery is its
arboretum -- donated to the city and named HIGHLAND PARK (yes, home to the
famed lilacs, the Lilac Festival and so many other horticultural wonders)
Since then Rochester has been called SMUGTOWN, the PICTURE CITY and most
recently the WORLDS IMAGING CENTRE, but the Flower City is the name that
seems to last. Maybe because it's so gray and dreary here, we need to
pretend...
Maybe my sister's right.....
--