Burying Michael Kelly at Arlington, or indeed anyone without Government Service
Baslim
of an accident, not combat action. A HUMVEE he was riding in wound up
in a canal. His driver was killed as well.
Kelly was referred to as a 'caustic conservative.' He covered the
first Gulf War as a stringer, i.e., he had no regular news service but
he wrote for whomever would pay for his copy. Following that, he was
hired by the New Republic, a liberal-leaning monthly magazine. Later,
he was fired because of his incessant criticizing of Clinton and Gore.
He became senior editor at the Atlantic Monthly and is credited with
reforming that magazine. His material of late have been carried by,
among others, the Washington Post. His biography, as reported, shows
that he is 'geneally' supportive of Bush. He apparently had no
military service in his background.
Peggy Noonan, writing in her regular column for the Wall Street
Journal, lauds Kelly, and includes comments and excerpts from his
writings on his dislike for Clinton and Gore. Noonan herself, a former
speech writer for Ronald Reagan, is best known these days for her
biography on Reagan, one that reviewers have said borders on
hagiography.
But returning to Kelly, the following paragraph from Noonan's WSJ
column is offered up:
"His remains will come home now soon enough, and I hope what comes
home is met with an honor guard, for he has earned it, and a flag, for
he loved his country, and a snapped salute, for that is one way to
show respect. And maybe it would be good if this son of
Washington--born there, educated there, drawn to its great industry,
politics and the reporting of it--were to find his final rest nearby,
among those who fought with distinction for America. Michael Kelly
went at great peril to be with U.S. troops, and he fell among US
troops, while trying to tell the story of U.S. troops. So perhaps his
final rest should be with U.S. troops, in Arlington, where we put so
many heroes."
So should a reporter, dying in an accident in a war zone, with no
prior military or distinguished government service, be treated as
honorably as a uniformed service man or woman, and receive:
1. A military honor guard and
2. a flag-draped coffin, and
3. burial at Arlington National Cemetery, and
4. a 'salute' from uniformed members of the Armed Services?
I know what my answer is -- and Kelly's political leanings have no
bearing on it -- but what say you?
gj
johnne coston
My dad isn't at Arlington, but he is in a National Cemetary. That is just my
opinion.
Johnne
A/AAC/AFBV68.0950.GA
Mom always warned me to stay away from the "moonies"
STEAM GENE
former infantryman.
Gene
ABV61-1043.001.HCB
<A HREF="http://www.tckworld.com/opfoot">http://www.tckworld.com/opfoot</A>
Look for "Skinny Dipping and Other Stories"
On the web at www.publishamerica.com or
www.military-brats.com or at a bookstore near you
C Lee
C Lee
Alix M. Hall
"C Lee" <giz...@tds.net> wrote in message
news:FxAja.1649$kK3.2...@kent.svc.tds.net...
Frank Shelton
--
Cheers,
Frank
AAC/AAF/AF BV59-0241CO
http://users.codenet.net/shelton
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HCN
"Baslim" <bas...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c28cafd3.0304...@posting.google.com...
> A news reporter, Michael Kelly, 46, was killed in Iraq as the result
> of an accident, not combat action. A HUMVEE he was riding in wound up
> in a canal. His driver was killed as well.
> Washington--born there, educated there, drawn to its great industry,
> So should a reporter, dying in an accident in a war zone, with no
> prior military or distinguished government service, be treated as
> honorably as a uniformed service man or woman, and receive:
>
> 1. A military honor guard and
>
> 2. a flag-draped coffin, and
>
> 3. burial at Arlington National Cemetery, and
>
> 4. a 'salute' from uniformed members of the Armed Services?
>
>
> I know what my answer is -- and Kelly's political leanings have no
> bearing on it -- but what say you?
>
I would say that is would be up to HIS family. He is from that area, and I
am sure that his family would have a prefered place of internment that would
mean something to THEM... not his readers.
By the way, I have found of of the better reporting online at
www.washingtonpost.com, including some good video (especially of the CentCom
briefings).
AChrist787
even imagine why he would be considered for burial there, quite honestly. I
have no problem with a flag draped coffin, as long as he is a US citizen, but a
military honor guard and salute? Absolutely not, IMHO. Save those for the men
and women who deserve and earned them.
Anne
AAC/AAF/AFBV62.0844.AZ
http://www.tckworld.com/opfoot
HCN
"AChrist787" <achri...@aol.comjunkbloc> wrote in message
news:20030405171715...@mb-fa.aol.com...
Agreed. And it is still up to HIS family where he should be buried, they
would have a better idea of what they would want (like a family plot or
location near their church). He was a journalist, and spending 3 weeks in a
combat situation does not automatically confer military status.
My grandfather is buried in Arizona... and I suspect my father would be
buried there too, complete with military honors. There is no point in
hauling them clear across the country when the family lives in the West --
even if they both served more than 25 years EACH in the Army.
>
>
>
>
Marilyn Morris
>> military honor guard and salute? Absolutely not, IMHO. Save those for
>the men
>> and women who deserve and earned them.
I also vote no.
Marilyn
ABV56-0438-DFW/TX
Yeff
> I know what my answer is -- and Kelly's political leanings have no
> bearing on it -- but what say you?
I've got two uncles, one an Air Force Vet and one an Army Vet, buried
there. They earned it. My father, retired from the Army, also earned it,
and will probably be buried there when he goes.
I say no to Michael Kelly.
-Jeff B. (who also disagreed with giving JFK Jr. a military burial)
yeff at erols dot com
Frank Shelton
> yeff at erols dot com
Why? He was a vet, and a heroic one at that.
--
Cheers,
Frank
AAC/AAF/AF BV59-0241CO
"I carried an M-16 ... I pulled my turn on the perimeter at night and walked
through the elephant grass, and I was fired upon." Los Angeles Times,
October 15, 1999.
Alan Leo a photographer in the press brigade accompanied Gore on those "half
dozen or so" trips into the field and described them as cakewalks during
which, he said, "I could have worn a tuxedo." Newsweek, December 6, 1999
STEAM GENE
> yeff at erols dot com
Why? He was a vet, and a heroic one at that.
>>
Frank - Junior wasn't a vet. President Kennedy was, for sure. How brave he was
is a possible matter of opinion.
Now this is a liberal speaking.
Kennedy received a Navy and Marine Corps Medal after his boat was sunk. That
is an award for non-combat heroism, yet, the circumstances came from a combat
patrol which involved contact with the enemy.
I'm willing to suggest that Lt (JG) Kennedy hazarded his boat, lost it, and
would have been courts martialed had it not been for Dad.
POLARSAC
>
No Frank, JFK Jr is the son, and wasn't a vet.
Sue
gary
Regardless of what Medal he got as President he is entitled to be buried
there. See
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.org/funeral_information/guide.interment.html
As to the reporter as a combat vet I say NO to all but maybe the flag as he
is a citizen.
gg
"STEAM GENE" <stea...@aol.comOpFoot> wrote in message
news:20030405230120...@mb-ca.aol.com...
STEAM GENE
buried there >>
I know that. I thought I was pointing out that JFK was a vet but JFK, Jr. was
not.
I'd like to see the uproar if Mr. Clinton were to die young and be buried in
Arlington.
Frank Shelton
for sending to small a force to free POW's at a German prison camp. Was that
Rohrbach? I can't remember for sure, but even he said he should have sent a
larger force. Whatever Kennedy did to get rammed, he save his men and did
some heroic things to do so. Many commanders "should" have been
court-martialed for mistakes. If they were, we wouldn't have any commanders.
What is this? I'm passionately defending a Democrat, and your condemning
him?
--
Cheers,
Frank
AAC/AAF/AF BV59-0241CO
"I carried an M-16 ... I pulled my turn on the perimeter at night and walked
through the elephant grass, and I was fired upon." Los Angeles Times,
October 15, 1999.
Alan Leo a photographer in the press brigade accompanied Gore on those "half
dozen or so" trips into the field and described them as cakewalks during
which, he said, "I could have worn a tuxedo." Newsweek, December 6, 1999
http://users.codenet.net/shelton
"STEAM GENE" <stea...@aol.comOpFoot> wrote in message
news:20030405230120...@mb-ca.aol.com...
gary
former President.
gg
"STEAM GENE" <stea...@aol.comOpFoot> wrote in message
news:20030405232155...@mb-fl.aol.com...
Marilyn Morris
Didn't his family give him, his wife and sil a burial at sea? Forgive my
ignorance, but did they give him a military burial at sea?
Marilyn
ABV56-0438-DFW/TX
Yeff
> Didn't his family give him, his wife and sil a burial at sea? Forgive my
> ignorance, but did they give him a military burial at sea?
He was given a military burial at sea and was moved ahead of families who'd
been waiting to have their former service member relatives honored by such
a burial.
-Jeff B.
debbymac
"Alix M. Hall" <ALK...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:EOBja.70105$j8.21...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
janet
janet
Baslim" <bas...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c28cafd3.0304...@posting.google.com...
Military-Brats Registry
--
Marc Curtis
ABV69.0651
Military-Brats Registry
http://www.military-brats.com
C Lee
active duty. I was a little surprised at what he had to say on this. He
said to leave it up to the military personnel he was embedded with and let
them decide. They would know if he had dug in and "become one of the gang"
or not.
C Lee
AChrist787
>or not.
>
>C Lee
>
Sorry, whether or not he had dug in and become one of the gang has nothing
whatsoever to do with it IMHO. Military cemeteries are reserved for those who
served in the military..period.
Anne
AAC/AAF/AFBV62.0844.AZ
http://www.tckworld.com/opfoot
STEAM GENE
served in the military..period. >>
I'll go back to my first response. Where is Ernie Pyle buried? IMHO, no war
correspondent deserves a finer resting place than Ernie Pyle.
Frank Shelton
war
> correspondent deserves a finer resting place than Ernie Pyle.
> Gene
Hear, hear!
According to this: http://beast.toad.net/~andrews/pyle97.html
Ernie is buried at a military cemetery in Hawaii.
On the news today they quoted someone as saying that Peter Arnett was the
greatest war correspondent that ever lived. I almost gagged. I have Ernie
Pyle's book, Brave Men. I also have two copies of Up Front with Mauldin. I
had one given to me by an Uncle who was in Italy during WW II. He was rear
echelon, but at Anzio. Rear echelon was no picnic there.
Anyhow, I got the second copy so both my boys could have a copy. I always
felt reading these books gave me as good an idea what being in the war was
like as anyone could ever get from a book.
--
Cheers,
Frank
AAC/AAF/AF BV59-0241CO
"I carried an M-16 ... I pulled my turn on the perimeter at night and walked
through the elephant grass, and I was fired upon." Los Angeles Times,
October 15, 1999.
Alan Leo a photographer in the press brigade accompanied Gore on those "half
dozen or so" trips into the field and described them as cakewalks during
which, he said, "I could have worn a tuxedo." Newsweek, December 6, 1999
http://users.codenet.net/shelton
C Lee
truthful.
Baslim
friends, male and female.
The response has been 12 for 12 against Mr. Kelly. The media is
lionizing Mr. Kelly; he apparently loved his parents and his wife and
kids. Maureen Dowd of the NYT knew him as a friend and she just loved
him and his family to death. She also gave him that ultimate
journalistic appellation: he could really write.
One of my friend's brought up -- as has been done here -- Ernie Pyle,
as an example of someone who, soldier or not, who should/might be
buried at a place like Arlington, but then said that most people might
not know who Pyle was. Well, I, as well as some of you, remember Ernie
Pyle. Here is a report on who he was, where he is buried, and what his
soldier-companions thought of him:
During World War II [Pyle] followed along while reporting with
front-line troops, lst in Europe, then the Pacific Theater, winning a
Pulitzer Prize for reporting in 1944. His columns, eventually appeared
in 200 newspapers. 1945 found him covering the battle for Okinawa. He
decided to accompany the troops during the invasion of the small
nearby island of Le Shima. While in a jeep with four others, they
encountered fire from a Japanese machine-gunner. While taking cover in
a nearby ditch, Ernie Pyle peered over the edge. A bullet struck him
in the temple resulting in instant death. The soldiers of the 77th
made a wooden coffin for Ernie and buried him wearing his helmet.
Later he was reburied at the Army cemetery on Okinawa and finally
moved to the National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific, Punchbowl
Crater, located in Honolulu. A wooden cross on Le Shima was replaced
by a permanent stone monument. Its inscription reads: "At this spot
the 77th Infantry Division lost a buddy Ernie Pyle 18 April 1945."
I believe, though I cannot cite chapter and verse, that Pyle was known
for shouldering his share of the load when he was with troops. he'd
pick up ammo and food and carry it forward. He'd take a corner on a
litter and take someone to the aid station. I don't think the
blow-dried 'war correspondents' are doing that today. Don't
misunderstand: I believe the press performs a necessary function even
when they are 'embedded' with the troops as they are today. But I
refuse to think of them as heroes in the sense of soldiers, sailors,
airmen, and Marines.
No, neither Kelly, or the other journalist who died subsequently,
David Bloom, deserve to be buried at Arlington or any other national
cemetery.
I believe there is only one other person who should be allowed burial
at Arlington should he ask, and I don't think he will, and that's Bob
Hope.
Bill Mauldin was a soldier; he qualifies. Andy Rooney was a soldier;
he qualifies.
Someone brought up Walter Cronkite as an example. Cronkite joined
United Press (UP) in 1939 to cover World War II. There, as part of
what some reporters fondly called the "Writing 69th," he went ashore
on D-Day, parachuted with the l0lst Airborne, flew bombing missions
over Germany, covered the Battle of the Bulge, and eventually covered
the Nuremburg trials. IMHO, no, he doesn't qualify.
gj
"Frank Shelton" <N0...@ARRL.NET> wrote in message news:<3e923...@corp.newsgroups.com>...
Frank Shelton
> Ernie is buried at a military cemetery in Hawaii.
>
> On the news today they quoted someone as saying that Peter Arnett was the
> greatest war correspondent that ever lived. I almost gagged. I have Ernie
> Pyle's book, Brave Men. I also have two copies of Up Front with Mauldin. I
> had one given to me by an Uncle who was in Italy during WW II. He was rear
> echelon, but at Anzio. Rear echelon was no picnic there.
> Anyhow, I got the second copy so both my boys could have a copy. I always
> felt reading these books gave me as good an idea what being in the war was
> like as anyone could ever get from a book.
Turns out I also have two copies of Brave Men. However, two pages are
missing from one of them. At least I can copy them and print them out so
both books will have the full text.
johnne coston
Johnne
A/AAC/AFBV68.0950.GA
Mom always warned me to stay away from the "moonies"
STEAM GENE
bit, but I don't think Michael Kelly had the love and affection from the troops
that
Ernie Pyle did.
There may be precident, but I still say no.
Rick Terry
(Baslim) writes:
>
>So should a reporter, dying in an accident in a war zone, with no
>prior military or distinguished government service, be treated as
>honorably as a uniformed service man or woman, and receive:
>
>1. A military honor guard and
>
>2. a flag-draped coffin, and
>
>3. burial at Arlington National Cemetery, and
>
>4. a 'salute' from uniformed members of the Armed Services?
>
>
>I know what my answer is -- and Kelly's political leanings have no
>bearing on it -- but what say you?
>
Basic response: Nope. Seems inappropriate.
Secondary thought: Heroism under fire needs recognition. Accidents are
accidents. And that understates any loss significantly.
USABV75.0357.001.OK
gary
gg
"Rick Terry" <tsto...@aol.comRedEarth> wrote in message
news:20030412041538...@mb-ci.aol.com...