Curious Origins of Some Malayalam Words
Narcissus
to consider how some malayalam words coulld have originated from some
other languages. I dont know the validity of these observations but
only that these make interesting thoughts.
I am giving the malayalam word first and the foreign word from which it
would have formed.
1. moonJchuka
In malayalam this word means to eat in a shady fashion. Or to eat
someone elses share or something like that. I think it comes under
slangs.
Isnt this word the malayali pronunciation of 'munch'? (moonch!)
2. arakk~ laanb (viLakk~)
This is a kind of lamp people use almost everywhere in kerala. Becuase
the spread of electricity i guess we dont see many of them today. The
main thing about this lamp is that it has a glass which protects the
flame from winds and such. I used to think that it is so called because it
is made of arakk (a kind of plastic?) or something like that...
It turned out to be 'hurricane lamp'!
3. madaamma
madaamma is similar to the word madayaana?!
Sounds like randy lady! And I used to think that people call western
ladies madaamma because the connotation fits them! The 'amma' in the
end gives it a typical malayali sound.
Isnt it the French word 'madame'? (malayali pronunciation)
4. batthEri
This place name is very famous. It is Sultan's Battery!
I am sure there are other words which came from other languages but
sounds very much like having originated from malayalam words. Anybody
out there with some other such words....
mathai chundattu
Narayana Sateesh Pillai
In the time before coconuts were popular in Kerala (I read
somewhere that they are not native to Kerala), a Malayali encountered
a coconut tree. He pointed to the coconut tree and asked an englishman
who happened to be nearbyfor the name of the tree. Unfortunately, our
Malayalee didn't know english. So he just pointed to the tree and made a
questioning glance at the englishman. The englishman asked "That thing?"
The Malayalee thought to himself and concluded that the
englishman said "athA thing~". And the thing~ became corrupted, in
the course of time, and palm trees are now known as theng~
2. bench
From the english word bench.
3. vatt~
A Malayalee was working for an englishman that he didn't like.
He was always irritated at the way the englishman would say "what? what?".
The unfortunate part was that the englishman would ask that all the time.
The malayalee conlcuded he was crazy. And once in a while, he would
comment to other Malayalee employees: "avanum, avande vAttum" (He and
his what!" Eventually, vAtt~ became corrupted as vatt~, and it was
used to describe crazy people.
4. switch
At the time that electricity came to India, a malayalee
scientist, who was very nationalistic, decided to name the unit
controlling the coming and going of current as a 'vidyuchakti
gamanAgamana niyanthrana yanthram'. Naturally, the other Malayalees,
who weren't so nerdy, fell asleep before the scientist could finish
telling them what the device was. The smart Malayalee decided to
ask the englishman about the device. The englishman replied that
it was a switch. The other malayalees decided to use the word
switch also. Hence the word switch for switch.
5. kOmAli
Longa ago, a mysterious visitor came to the court of the king of
Travancore. The king took a liking to the humorous way of the person
and appointed him the court jester. And the court jester would provide
humor with his odd behavior. Once, for the record, the court historian
asked the jester: where are you from? The jester replied that he was
from a land called "kOmAl". The other people, who were also curious,
asked the court historian whether the jester was a Malayali. The
historian replied "No, he is not a Malayali, he is a kOmAli". from
then on, the word kOmAli was used to describe people with a crazy
behavior.
6.Tata
from the english word "tata"
TATA!
Sateesh
--
| Sateesh Pillai
| 128-95, Caltech
who am I? | Pasadena, CA 91125
| (818) 564-1225
kai...@prema.aix.kingston.ibm.com
>In the context of malayali accent and related topics, it is interesting
>to consider how some malayalam words coulld have originated from some
>other languages. I dont know the validity of these observations but
>only that these make interesting thoughts.
>
>3. madaamma
>
>madaamma is similar to the word madayaana?!
>Sounds like randy lady! And I used to think that people call western
>ladies madaamma because the connotation fits them! The 'amma' in the
>end gives it a typical malayali sound.
>
>Isnt it the French word 'madame'? (malayali pronunciation)
>
I think this is going a little too far. This probably came from
the English word madam which could mean a respectful lady. The malayalee
made it more respectful by adding the amma to the end and made it sound
like a malayalee word by smoothing out some rough edges.
On the same lines where do you think the word Saippe came from ?.
I think it came from Sir. Malyalee added the appan to the end and made
it more smooth by removing the 'r' and the 'n'.
Dominic
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dominic Kailath kai...@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
IBM KINGSTON kai...@kgnaix11.aix.kingston.ibm.com
(914)-339-6501 (home) (914)-385-5539 (work)
val...@vishnu.labs.tek.com
From: mchu...@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Narcissus)
> 3. madaamma
> ladies madaamma because the connotation fits them! The 'amma' in the
> end gives it a typical malayali sound.
> Isnt it the French word 'madame'? (malayali pronunciation)
It may be from Portuguese or Italian, as in
the Verdi (?) opera "Madaamma Butterfly", which refers to a Japanese lady
who marries an American sailor. [He comes to Japan and marries her,
and has a kid with her; it turns out that he has an American wife who
he decides to go back to later on, and the Japanese woman commits
suicide out of disgrace. A cheerful story, isn't it?]
The word "Parangi", as in parangi manga (cashew apple) and parangi
rogam (VD), is from "Frank", which referred to the French, although
later I think it came to mean Portuguese.
In the early days of Malayalam, it was more customary to convert
foreign words to rules of Malayalam language, including words from
Sanskrit. Thus among months, "simha" becomes "chingam" and "mesha"
becomes "medam", as old Malayalam, like Tamil, did not have "sa" or
"sha". So such words are common, and it may be the origin of
the Malayalam accent, because we still tend to translate
English sounds to Malayalam sounds. "Saippu" is from Sahib and narangya
from naranj (from Arabic), and "chaaya" (tea) is from Chinese or Japanese
"cha". But "theyila" (tea leaves) may be from English "tea".
There was an interesting article in Scientific American a few months
back where the author was trying to relate all the world's languages,
and he found words in many languages corresponding to Malayalam
"mula" (breast) and "melluka" (chew), like Arabic and even American
Indian languages. It may be a very old word!
This message turned out longer than I thought!
Vallath Nandakumar
Narayana Sateesh Pillai
kai...@prema.aix.kingston.ibm.com () writes:
> On the same lines where do you think the word Saippe came from ?.
> I think it came from Sir. Malyalee added the appan to the end and made
> it more smooth by removing the 'r' and the 'n'.
A better origin for the word saippe is the word "sahib", as
in the "white sahib". The Malayalee made that "saippe"
Narcissus
"kOmaaLi" was interesting.
But did you miss my point here? The idea was about words in malayalam
which sounds like the other malayalam words but are originally
from other languages which in that language mean the same as in
malayalam.
Another word I can think of is 'raSeeth'. I wonder how a malayali made
it to this extent! I guess it is from 'receipt' pronounced with a silent
'p'. Or is it the way it has to be pronounced?
Then the word 'kaaS~' meaning cash. Did it come from english or the
other way around?
Another english word which is very common among bus muthalaaLees
is 'seesi'. "vaNtikku seesi kettuka", "vaNti seesi cheythu koNtupOyi",
etc... It has almost become malayalam for them.. I had a hard time
finding out what it means.. It turned out to be 'seize'!
> | Sateesh Pillai
> | 128-95, Caltech
>who am I? | Pasadena, CA 91125
> | (818) 564-1225
mathai chundattu
John Chandy
In the early days of Malayalam, it was more customary to convert
foreign words to rules of Malayalam language, including words from
Sanskrit. Thus among months, "simha" becomes "chingam" and "mesha"
becomes "medam", as old Malayalam, like Tamil, did not have "sa" or
"sha". So such words are common, and it may be the origin of
The discussion of months reminded me of something I noticed a while
ago. The names of the months apparently correspond fairly closely to
the zodiac symbols. For example chingam = simha = lion = Leo. Back
then, I tried confirming this with my mother, but she couldn't
remember the meanings of all the months. I was wondering if someone
could post the Malayalam months and their English meanings.
If this correlation is true, does anyone know how this came about. I
assume that the Malayalam month names came from Sanskrit and are
probably thousands of years olds. It seems highly unlikely that
constellations which the ancient Indians came up with would be exactly
the same as those named by those who picked the zodiac symbols.
Anybody have any answers.
John Chandy.
Mahesh V Tripunitara
>Then the word 'kaaS~' meaning cash. Did it come from english or the
>other way around?
Here's part of what my Webster's tells me :
1cash \'kash\ n
[MF or OIt; MF casse money box, fr. OIt cassa, fr. L capsa chest
-- more at CASE]
(1596)
1: ready money
2: money or its equivalent paid promptly after purchasing
-- cash-less \-les\ adj
3cash n, pl cash
[Pg caixa, fr. Tamil ka^-cu, a small copper coin, fr. Skt karsa, a
weight of gold or silver; akin to OPer karsha-, a weight]
(1598)
1: any of various coins of small value in China and southern India;
esp: a Chinese coin usu. of copper alloy that has a square hole
in the center
2: a unit of value equivalent to one cash
Mahesh.
--
"Speak the truth, but leave immediately after you do so."
Anila Antony
>is 'seesi'. "vaNtikku seesi kettuka", "vaNti seesi cheythu koNtupOyi",
>etc... It has almost become malayalam for them.. I had a hard time
>finding out what it means.. It turned out to be 'seize'!
And how about the ''catch' pidichu' of our Mallu cricket
players . I used to tease my brother for using that phrase.
But finally when I was narrating to him my experiences of
playing cricket I found myself using the same one . (But how
else would one say 'I made a catch').
Bye
Anila
--
_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Sudha Neelakantan
engineering list. I found this really thought provoking, and
considering that most of the people on ack are probably scientists
or engineers, I wanted a response on your attitudes to yourselves
as women or as men to the women you work/study with. Is being asian
different, and is the malayalee perspective still different?
> Someone gave me this great quote from an issue of
> Discover profiling women scientists (unfortunately I don't know which
> woman said this):
>
> "In science, being outspoken and being a woman is an
> unforgivable combination. I've learned to deal with the consequences."
>
Do you tend to feel that women are less capable? or do they give you
that impression anyway? I find myself underplaying my abilities and
shortchanging myself sometimes, and definitely, peers do find me
threatening in being outspoken -- i guess i do shoot my mouth off
a bit much. then again, theres the expectation that one should be
a helpless female. and i struggled to overcome my mental block about
being incompetent at math. is this problem caused by women seeking
a balance between throwing off traditional roles and being accepted?
I don't know too much about the male point of view on this. I
do know that if *I* complain about something, its bitchy, while if
a male classmate complains, its only complaining...
Sudha
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sudha K. Neelakantan < Clouds come floating into my life,
The Heinz School of \ no longer to carry rain or usher storm
Public Policy and Management \ but to add color to my sunset sky.
Carnegie Mellon > - Rabindranath Tagore -
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Internet email: sud...@cmu.edu
Sathyadev Ramachandran
|> > Discover profiling women scientists (unfortunately I don't know which
|> > woman said this):
|> >
|> > "In science, being outspoken and being a woman is an
|> > unforgivable combination. I've learned to deal with the consequences."
|> >
|>
|> Do you tend to feel that women are less capable? or do they give you
|> that impression anyway? I find myself underplaying my abilities and
|> shortchanging myself sometimes, and definitely, peers do find me
|> threatening in being outspoken -- i guess i do shoot my mouth off
|> a bit much. then again, theres the expectation that one should be
|> a helpless female. and i struggled to overcome my mental block about
|> being incompetent at math. is this problem caused by women seeking
|> a balance between throwing off traditional roles and being accepted?
|> I don't know too much about the male point of view on this. I
|> do know that if *I* complain about something, its bitchy, while if
|> a male classmate complains, its only complaining...
|>
|> Sudha
I had the great opportunity throughout my college days in India to
interact with women on academic matters. To answer your question directly
I have not found them any less talented than the males in the class. Infact
in many ways the males did lack certain qualities that women in general do
have which are conducive to academia. Well, that was just college and
classes and brain-storming problem sessions.
In the field of High-energy physics which i am struggling to specialise
in , there are quite a number of women too. This is a highly competetitive
field where one's deep love for physics has to be strengthened by being
assertive ; being outspoken is one of the pre-requisites. I do personally
know many women who have all these qualities considering the fact that
women are still under represented in numbers.
I find your statements about having to underplay your abilities
quite amusing as it contradicts my experience. Maybe, things are different
in other work environments. Maybe , I did not understand you completely.
Were you implying on typical male behavioural patterns in a social setting
rather than in professional environments ?
dev
Satish Ramachandran
>
>Do you tend to feel that women are less capable? or do they give you
>that impression anyway?
>I find myself underplaying my abilities and
>shortchanging myself sometimes, and definitely, peers do find me
>threatening in being outspoken
>a male classmate complains, its only complaining...
>
>Sudha
Speaking for myself and knowing several exemplary professionals who
are women, I would say "No" and "No" to both questions.
We are talking of "women" (which encompasses bzillions of individuals
here, right?) and one can't throw around blankets that large without
being in the wrong.
What I see being addressed, but particular to "gender" in this case,
is this issue of how a society demands/requires/insists/encourages
conformity with its own notions of where people belong. Currently,
most societies around the world (if not all) somehow push women into
the background and what you are running into is that regressive
attitude. Women are encouraged, if at all, to go into non-technical
fields. Any display of profiency with math or science (or the
"techie" fields) is viewed as an aberration that is to be corrected,
as quickly as possible. Similarly, any show of aptitude by a
males in fields that society views as "fuzzy" (cooking, crochet, ...)
is similarly viewed as an aberration that needs to be corrected.
The terms 'fuzzy' and 'techie' are generic - you can substitute
'left-brain' and 'right-brain', 'western' and 'eastern', ...
And this extends beyond the "male-female" argument.
The stereotypical Asian is seen as someone who is meek and
submissive. An Asian woman bears twice the burden of being
weighed by these stereotypes!
I read somewhere that these are vestiges of the Victorian era where
"society" was considered superior to the "individual." The Victorian
era, which came to an end in the U.S. sometime in first quarter of this
century, suppressed everything to support its notions of what A Good
Society was supposed to be. Women with exceptional skills, people
of different color, etc. were all smothered.
That kind of thinking did not entirely go away with the end of
the Victorian era - there are still societies that are governed by
those thoughts. And there are bzillion individuals who also
continue to think so.
Interestingly, in India, I have noticed many women who insist that
their daughters/daughters-in-law ought to stick to the kitchen,
walk a few steps behind the husband, eat after the men, and ...
Victorian thinking in a society that is fast transforming to
a non-Victorian era...
-s
Sudha Neelakantan
basically says theres no problem, or they've not noticed it.
Also, maybe I should clarify my post, I put in typical reactions
that i've noticed in my peers as if it were me, so I guess I've
ended up a little contrary in image. I've been through many of
those phases though i probably don't downplay my abilities
anymore. and the thing is that if a woman tells you, i have no
idea how to program that VCR. I can't do that 'male' task of
fiddling with the stereo system, etc., i bet you don't even
notice. and neither did I. and you'll find many more women
admitting to trouble with math. i used to kill myself over
arithmetic 5 years ago. How many of the Indian women you know
took longer to learn how to drive for example?
And my best friend, claims that she absolutely can't deal with
math, though after working with her on presenting a project, she
obviously understands much more about presenting a statistical
profile than someone else who claimed to be a math whiz. but she
gets defensive if i point that out to her.(she's american too)
Some of my peers act like airheads, especially around men,
whether they are or not. and I feel sad that they do that in
order to be accepted socially, not just as a coworker. I guess,
that whats missing is the feeling that you're among friends if
you accept *all* of your abilities, and assert them. Actually,
maybe if anything, I found this need to conform to a dumb blonde
image in more americans simply because the crosssection of
indian women, is the successful bright people who make it
to grad school in the USA on their own merit. they've already
broken many of the stereotypes, and for e.g., atleast
postponed the typical graduate and get married stereotype.
Many of them will now put as much importance on their careers,
as they would previously have on other things.
Also, the few women on the faculty at CMU, which as a school has
a reputation for being unfriendly to women, and I don't think
thats unfounded, are all superwomen. The men I know, just accept
that - oh, she is the only woman in the department, and GOD is
she so uptight and a workaholic...- they don't question why.
Ofcourse people do not acknowledge or even realize that theres
anything missing. And even weirder, like my roommate pointed
out, is that these women who've made it, aren't always extremely
supportive to women either, they even have the attitude, I've
worked really hard to get where I am, with no real aid from
anybody and thats the only way you should be doing it too. Then
too, fields like management or biology or cs are more open to
women in terms of percentages atleast. so that might be
downplaying the problem. though maybe you should count the
number of women on the tenure track faculty. I bet you see fewer
laid back women in your classes than men... or in academia.
i guess things are changing, but i'm just frustrated at how
slowly they are.
pr...@dollarbill.austin.ibm.com
>
>The stereotypical Asian is seen as someone who is meek and
>submissive. An Asian woman bears twice the burden of being
>weighed by these stereotypes!
No blanket statements, please! Having worked as a hi-tech professional
both in India and the US, and having always worked in a fair and open
environment, I for one have never spent too much time worrying about
these issues. I have considered myself to be a member of the team with a
job to do, just like the others. From personal experience, I am of the
opinion that the manner in which you are treated depends heavily on how
you carry yourself - the measure of your skill, self confidence and poise.
Most Americans are open; they are aware of stereotypes, but they will
judge you based on their impressions of you, not on their familiarity with
stereotypes. More than once I have been told that ancient Indian history
taught in schools, TV news reports on India, and Indian movies that sometimes
get screened here (general focus: village life, poverty, suffering, stoicism)
had created a certain impression/stereotype of India and Indians, but after
having known me and other Indian professionals for a while they no longer
knew what to believe! To thine own self be true, as the bard said, and most
of the time you will be judged on your own merit.
Before I get off my soap box, I would like to add that this newsgroup is
like a breath of fresh air after the babel that fills sci. Here finally,
is a group of Indians that can discuss, differ, and disagree, and still
do it within the bounds of simple courtesy.
Priya
--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Yesudas, Michael
>ended up a little contrary in image. I've been through many of
>those phases though i probably don't downplay my abilities
>anymore. and the thing is that if a woman tells you, i have no
>idea how to program that VCR. I can't do that 'male' task of
>fiddling with the stereo system, etc., i bet you don't even
>notice. and neither did I. and you'll find many more women
>admitting to trouble with math. i used to kill myself over
>arithmetic 5 years ago. How many of the Indian women you know
>took longer to learn how to drive for example?
Though, there have been virtually no females, in the places I studied
and worked, I still believe that it is not impossible for any woman to program
a VCR. To be honest, I have no idea as to how to operate a VCR, leave
alone how to program.. Neither can I do the task of fiddling around with
the stereo system. PLAY, REW,FWD, STOP/EJECT. There stops my funda!
It would be a lie, if I say that I have struggled with Math, especially being
a TA for Graduate Level Mathematics.. However, I never found any distinct
difference between the male/female range of scores...
The reason of learning longer to drive, is simply that most Indian women
do not drive any vehicle previously, and that simple feel of the road and
traffic takes a little bit of time, for an average person. The Indian male
is atleast adept on the cycle..
Also, my understanding is that, women are safer drivers than men.
>indian women, is the successful bright people who make it
>to grad school in the USA on their own merit. they've already
I have doubts to the claims of their "own" merit. Some of them are good.
Some of them are goons. Just as the same way the male population is
also divided..
>postponed the typical graduate and get married stereotype.
>Many of them will now put as much importance on their careers,
>as they would previously have on other things.
Honestly, I do not know how much of survey exists in this zone. My very
limited experience has been that all these so called "stereo type breakers"
end up doing exactly, what they fought for. Being Stereotyped! Maybe that
they harp so much about their UNSTEREOTYPICAL image, that it becomes their
prime weak point...
>
>Also, the few women on the faculty at CMU, which as a school has
Did you know that an Indian woman cannot study Mining Engineering, as
it is prohinited by LAW?
>a reputation for being unfriendly to women, and I don't think
>thats unfounded, are all superwomen. The men I know, just accept
>that - oh, she is the only woman in the department, and GOD is
>she so uptight and a workaholic...- they don't question why.
There is nothing to question there. Some people are hard working. Some
others are not. It is universal, not restricted to any species or gender.
>anything missing. And even weirder, like my roommate pointed
>out, is that these women who've made it, aren't always extremely
>supportive to women either, they even have the attitude, I've
>worked really hard to get where I am, with no real aid from
>anybody and thats the only way you should be doing it too. Then
I have a question here. You are an Indian, right? Are you supportive of
every "other" Indian who wants to come and study in CMU? (If so please
tell me, I have a huge list of people for you!)
>too, fields like management or biology or cs are more open to
>women in terms of percentages atleast. so that might be
I don't buy that. No field is more "open" than any other.. If I say, that
Nursing, Fine arts, Architecture,Pharmacy, etc are the closed fields
for men, will you buy it?
>laid back women in your classes than men... or in academia.
>i guess things are changing, but i'm just frustrated at how
>slowly they are.
What is your culmination of change? Is it that women will refuse to be
pregnant, as that impedes their rights, freedom and movement? Or is that
a mass appeal will be made to the Almighty, that men and women should be
made as clones?
Women and men share the same rights, but are different by nature. They have
the same blood in their veins, but different genes. They speak the same
language, but have different voices. They have the same eyes, but see different
things. They have the same brain, but think in different ways. They have the
same heart, but feel different emotions...
Let me ask you a very simple question? How many of these so called Indian
"stereo type breakers" have the guts and courage to stand up against the
domination of their male parent over the female parent? How many of
them would openly defy their father? How many of them would tell flat
on the face of the males in their family, "You are MCPs.." I think that
it is ZERO.. After all as someone said.. "Charity begins at home.."
Men and women are just complementary. They are like two sides of the same
coin. Like two hands. Or two legs. One cannot claim more load than the
other. One leg cannot crib about less opportunities than the other. One
leg cannot say that it is not being treated fair by the stronger leg.. They
are both required for peaceful existence..
Neither you, nor any one in this Universe can defy that law of God (for
those who believe) of nature (for those who don't). When we do that, we
are on our way to impending doom..
No malice meant, hope you got my point.
>
>Sudha
Sincerely
Michael
Balakrishnan G
Hi,
I agree whole-heartedly with one particular statement of Sudha's; The
deliberate propagation of the 'helpless dumbo' image. I think both guys and
girls are to blame for this. Girls , because they use that as an art to
attract and guys because they get attracted! I've seen sensible guys melt down
when a girl puts up that 'You're soooooo smart, unlike me...!' line! I think
it hits a guy where it matters most, at his ego. I've seen this kind of thing
even at IIT-Bombay(Only a few girls get into the IITs, but the ones that do get in
are better than most of the guys). I've seen guys who could be scraped off from
the bottom of our class say stuff about our batch topper(There was 1 girl in a
batch of 35 and she topped the class!) like
"That female is dumb!" etc. I've also seen absolutely brilliant girls crooning
to guys that "The exam was soooo tough, Yaaaaar. But you must have done well".
Enough to make the guy run around in a loin-cloth, beating his chest and shout
"Kreegah tarzan Bundalo!" When the grades come out, the guy goes into hiding
It's a curious phenomenon.
More later.
-Balky
P.S
Is there anyone I know on this net? (I was at St. Josephs High School
& Rajagiri High school ( Kalamasherry), St. Thomas College( Trichur) and
IIT-Bombay. Also if anyone knows the whereabouts of a guy called Arun Govind
Marar(St. Thomas College(Trichur) & IIT-Madras(Civil Eng), Please let me know.
(Probable locations: U. Maryland or Johns Hopkins)
Thanks.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nammal vilippu lokathe , sakhi, nammal vilippu kaalathe
Aadityan muthal anu vare neelum bhoota pretha vipathathal
Shokam nottiya naavil ,kalamridu saamam padiya kandhathal
Nammal vilippu lokathe , sakhi, Nammal vilippu kaalathe!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balakrishnan. G
(Off)
Materials Science Program
ERB Mailboxes
1500 Johnson Drive
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Madison, WI 53705
Ph: (608)-262-1225
(Res)
1315 Spring St. # 2302
Madison, WI 53715
Ph: (608)-251-5386
email: bala...@cae.wisc.edu
ba...@msae.cae.wisc.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yesudas, Michael
>
>Hi,
> I agree whole-heartedly with one particular statement of Sudha's; The
>deliberate propagation of the 'helpless dumbo' image. I think both guys and
>girls are to blame for this. Girls , because they use that as an art to
>attract and guys because they get attracted! I've seen sensible guys melt down
>when a girl puts up that 'You're soooooo smart, unlike me...!' line! I think
Sounds so bland to hear that someone wants to live in a world where opposite
sexes do not attract and get arttracted!!!
Tell me one guy, who will not melt in front of one female or other..
If my sister tells me that "You are soooo smart, unlike me, (even with a couple
of 'o' less)...!" I melt.
It is the height of arrogance to say that girls use something as an art to
attract guys. It sounds more like the ones in Falkland Road and Grand Road who
do the same for a living..
>it hits a guy where it matters most, at his ego. I've seen this kind of thing
I have not come across one single human being who is above flattery. Being
flattered is just human..Maybe even humane..
>even at IIT-Bombay(Only a few girls get into the IITs, but
the ones that do get in
>are better than most of the guys). I've seen guys who could be scraped off from
> the bottom of our class say stuff about our batch topper(There was 1 girl in a
> batch of 35 and she topped the class!) like
If the hint goes on to say that she topped the class because she was a girl,
then it is beyond any sense of understanding.. Or maybe that happens only in
places like IITs..
>"That female is dumb!" etc. I've also seen absolutely brilliant girls crooning
>to guys that "The exam was soooo tough, Yaaaaar. But you must have done well"
I would think that it was just a sign of confidence in them.. Or some empty
talk.. Or soliciting to take her out.. Or a wishful romantic dream.. anything..
>Enough to make the guy run around in a loin-cloth, beating his chest and shout
>"Kreegah tarzan Bundalo!" When the grades come out, the guy goes into hiding
> It's a curious phenomenon.
Very curious indeed! Possible that these happens only in IITs..
>
>
> More later.
>-Balky
Sincerely
Michael
RO...@maine.maine.edu
I imagine that one would say " X was caught out" in English language,
to convey the intended meaning. If that is so, in Malayalam, could we
not say " X ne panthu pidichu purathakki".
Balakrishnan Gopalakrishnan
Hi
Just responding to Yesudas' mail
In article <30APR199...@rosie.uh.edu>, mec...@rosie.uh.edu (Yesudas, Michael) writes:
|> In article <1993Apr30....@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, bala...@cae.wisc.edu (Balakrishnan G) writes...
|> >
|> >Hi,
|> > I agree whole-heartedly with one particular statement of Sudha's; The
|> >deliberate propagation of the 'helpless dumbo' image. I think both guys and
|> >girls are to blame for this. Girls , because they use that as an art to
|> >attract and guys because they get attracted! I've seen sensible guys melt down
|> >when a girl puts up that 'You're soooooo smart, unlike me...!' line! I think
|>
|> Sounds so bland to hear that someone wants to live in a world where opposite
|> sexes do not attract and get arttracted!!!
|> Tell me one guy, who will not melt in front of one female or other..
|> If my sister tells me that "You are soooo smart, unlike me, (even with a couple
|> of 'o' less)...!" I melt.
|> It is the height of arrogance to say that girls use something as an art to
|> attract guys. It sounds more like the ones in Falkland Road and Grand Road who
|> do the same for a living..
You couldn't have judjed a person worse. Believe me, I'm one of the 'my
heart's a doormat for anyone to tramp on' types! But my problem is against
intelligent girls pretending they are dumb. that is because of a certain
stereo-type of attractiveness that exists all over the world. Most guys dont
want to get involved with girls who percieve themselves as smarter than them.
Well, I'd fall for most lines, but that is one which I detest.
|>
|> >it hits a guy where it matters most, at his ego. I've seen this kind of thing
|>
|> I have not come across one single human being who is above flattery. Being
|> flattered is just human..Maybe even humane..
True. But why is it that guys always use the "You're so cute" line wheras
girls go for the "You're so smart" line? Stereo-types? I for one would
certainly prefer a girl bieng attracted to me for my looks rather than my
brains or my wallet.
|>
|> >even at IIT-Bombay(Only a few girls get into the IITs, but
|> the ones that do get in
|> >are better than most of the guys). I've seen guys who could be scraped off from
|> > the bottom of our class say stuff about our batch topper(There was 1 girl in a
|> > batch of 35 and she topped the class!) like
|>
|> If the hint goes on to say that she topped the class because she was a girl,
|> then it is beyond any sense of understanding.. Or maybe that happens only in
|> places like IITs..
You hit the nail right on the head. As I said earlier, only a few girls get
into the IITs. (Around 15/350 in my batch) Now making an assumtion that in
realty girls and guys dont have any physiological differences in intelligence
levels, these 15 girls should be comarable to the top 15 or at least 30-40
guys at IIT-B. And believe me the top 30-40 guys at IIT-B are really really
good!
About your comment about this happening only in the IITs,
have you ever seen the rank lists for the SSLC, PDC, BSc, MSc exams etc in the
news papers? Okay, you can give me the same old excuses that girls age only
good at mugging and vomitting. But doesn't that kind of imply something else?
That guys aren't even good enough for that? The truth is the intelligence
levels are the same, but they work harder. And it shows
|>
|> >"That female is dumb!" etc. I've also seen absolutely brilliant girls crooning
|> >to guys that "The exam was soooo tough, Yaaaaar. But you must have done well"
|>
|> I would think that it was just a sign of confidence in them.. Or some empty
|> talk.. Or soliciting to take her out.. Or a wishful romantic dream.. anything..
Wishful.. Yes. Romantic ..Yes. Sign of confidence.. NO! For the simple
reason that the same girl would go over to guy #2 and laugh at how dumb guy #1
is!
|>
|> >Enough to make the guy run around in a loin-cloth, beating his chest and shout
|> >"Kreegah tarzan Bundalo!" When the grades come out, the guy goes into hiding
|> > It's a curious phenomenon.
|>
|> Very curious indeed! Possible that these happens only in IITs..
I hope you aren't implying anything. Because if you are, you know as much as
anyone else that it has to be wrong. (Just a bit of pride for my Alma-Mater!)
|>
|> >
|> >
|> > More later.
|> >-Balky
|> Sincerely
|> Michael
|>
Hope you take my criticizm of your critisizm in the right spirit!
Here's to equality!
-Balky
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaru vaanguminne aaru vaangumee aaramathinte romancham
Aprameya vilasa lolayam suprabhatathin susmitham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yesudas, Michael
>
>Hi
> Just responding to Yesudas' mail
>
>
>
>In article <30APR199...@rosie.uh.edu>, mec...@rosie.uh.edu (Yesudas, Michael) writes:
>|> In article <1993Apr30....@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, bala...@cae.wisc.edu (Balakrishnan G) writes...
>
>
>heart's a doormat for anyone to tramp on' types! But my problem is against
>intelligent girls pretending they are dumb. that is because of a certain
I don't see anything wrong in that. Afterall "All is fair in love and war.."
>stereo-type of attractiveness that exists all over the world. Most guys dont
>want to get involved with girls who percieve themselves as smarter than them.
I have no idea where "smartness" begins and how that is defined. It is very,
very difficult even to draw such a line, leave alone generalizing. I will give
you a counter example. Will you also accept that most girls cook better than
guys? (Including those IIT specimen, you talk about..) So if we take cooking
as a "measure of smartness" the girls are smarter than guys?
>|>
>|> I have not come across one single human being who is above flattery. Being
>|> flattered is just human..Maybe even humane..
>
>True. But why is it that guys always use the "You're so cute" line wheras
>girls go for the "You're so smart" line? Stereo-types? I for one would
>certainly prefer a girl bieng attracted to me for my looks rather than my
>brains or my wallet.
Yes, that is your choice. I for another, would not want my looks to be important
because I will definitely age..At least my brains will remain with me..
>
>
>|> then it is beyond any sense of understanding.. Or maybe that happens only in
>|> places like IITs..
>
>
>You hit the nail right on the head. As I said earlier, only a few girls get
>into the IITs. (Around 15/350 in my batch) Now making an assumtion that in
>realty girls and guys dont have any physiological differences in intelligence
>levels, these 15 girls should be comarable to the top 15 or at least 30-40
>guys at IIT-B. And believe me the top 30-40 guys at IIT-B are really really
>good!
That went straight above my head..
> About your comment about this happening only in the IITs,
>have you ever seen the rank lists for the SSLC, PDC, BSc, MSc exams etc in the
>news papers? Okay, you can give me the same old excuses that girls age only
>good at mugging and vomitting. But doesn't that kind of imply something else?
I never said that. I never found any excuse for "not finding people of the
male gender among toppers". I look at it like this. Some people become toppers.
Some don't. It is very nasty to draw lines of sex through it..
>That guys aren't even good enough for that? The truth is the intelligence
>levels are the same, but they work harder. And it shows
I have never had any access to the true intelligence levels of two people. I
hardly think that I am intelligent enough for such an understanding. So I cannot
comment on this.
>
>|>
>|> I would think that it was just a sign of confidence in them.. Or some empty
>|> talk.. Or soliciting to take her out.. Or a wishful romantic dream.. anything..
>
> Wishful.. Yes. Romantic ..Yes. Sign of confidence.. NO! For the simple
>reason that the same girl would go over to guy #2 and laugh at how dumb guy #1
>is!
In which case, it is empty talk, and I pity guy #2, for not realizing that his
fate is similar when she talk to guy #3..
>
>|>
>|> >Enough to make the guy run around in a loin-cloth, beating his chest and shout
>|> >"Kreegah tarzan Bundalo!" When the grades come out, the guy goes into hiding
>|> > It's a curious phenomenon.
>|>
>|> Very curious indeed! Possible that these happens only in IITs..
>
>
>I hope you aren't implying anything. Because if you are, you know as much as
>anyone else that it has to be wrong. (Just a bit of pride for my Alma-Mater!)
No, I was very surprised, I studied in an IIT for four years for my undergrad,
but never came across anything like that..
>
> Hope you take my criticizm of your critisizm in the right spirit!
> Here's to equality!
> -Balky
That was never a criticism.. Not intended to be one..Neither is this..
Sincerely
Michael
Masood Makkar
>
> Then the word 'kaaS~' meaning cash. Did it come from english or the
> other way around?
>
Ever heard 'bout the story of a saaippe who saw a malayali selling cashew
nuts, and the malayal was shoutin' out Kaas' ine ette..Kaas' ine ette..
The Englishman thought, that this Indian fellow shouting out the name of
the nuts he was sellin'.......
after this came the Cashew Nuts !!!!
Masood
PS. Hey! The above narrated story is fictional, any similarity with real
life or to what happened a thousand years ago is purely coindental.
In other words it's just a JOKE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Venu Nayar
but, most of my follow-up was similar to what sudha says her responses were
like...in other words, never noticed it, etc.
but, that evening [it being a friday, and evenings at work being spent
shooting the breeze], i was chatting with a couple of the women here at
work, and the subject of women working in the industry came up.
we were discussing the percentage of women who make to the executive
positions in the industry, and were surprised to find that they were few.
this in an industry which is more liberal than others, and in a liberal state
as well.
so, while i haven't noticed discrimination, it could exist in the
sub-conscious psyche.
In <YfsIpAO00...@andrew.cmu.edu> sud...@CMU.EDU (Sudha Neelakantan)
writes about women playing down their abilities to get socially accepted.
interstingly enough, this is something i have noticed, and been rather
amused about. i have always been amazed that someone of obvious intelligence
would want to appear like a moron. but, i have spoken to some of my friends
[who do this] about it, and their opinion seems to be that it is just easier
to play the part of an air-head, and avoid hostility, than to deal with it.
my only opinion is that till people fight an evil, it will not go away. you
can't avoid it, and hope that things will be better soon.
--
Venu Nayar | Email: ve...@cirrus.com/ve...@rahul.net
Join the march to save individuality!
S.Subramanian(contr)
Everyone does that when it is convenient. IMHO, women are not any better
than men in cooking. Have you heard of any professional female cook ?
But when it comes to cooking at home, every man "admits" that his
wife/mother can do a better job. The bottom line is that people tend
to admit they are not good in doing things that they don't want
to do - whether it is programming VCR or cooking.
Subbu
annie george
>In article <lu0enq...@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> sat...@blackflag.Eng.Sun.COM (Satish Ramachandran) writes:
>>
>>The stereotypical Asian is seen as someone who is meek and
>>submissive. An Asian woman bears twice the burden of being
>>weighed by these stereotypes!
One thing that amazes me is that the percentage of girls taking up
engineering is far greater in India than in Australia!
For example in my undergraduate class about 40% of the students were
girls.The no. decreased drastically for other branches of engr.
But in Australia (supposed to ba an advanced country - with liberal
attitudes) out of a class of 100 you'd find at the maximum 10 (this is a
rarity)!
So atleast in this respect I think India is ahead of Australia.
Here universities have all sorts of schemes to attract girls into
engineering yet they are not very sucessful.
Well as for being meek and mild, what's the harm in employing
such tactics to get what we want? ( Especially if the guy is dumb enough to
fall for it ;-))
I am sure guys use other tactics to get what they want :-)
Annie
Affable
In article <1s7laf$g...@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au> an...@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au (annie
george) writes:
>Well as for being meek and mild, what's the harm in employing
>such tactics to get what we want? ( Especially if the guy is dumb enough to
>fall for it ;-))
/*slap on the forehead*/ (forhead is mine) :-) [plagiarized usage]
Nah, guys ain't that much dumb. Just we want to play along the lines
of the gals. :-)
>I am sure guys use other tactics to get what they want :-)
ahah,ahah ! /* trying to stifle the faked cough*/ ;-)
Really, I don't know any such tactics. Do you mind in revealing sth you've
noticed, to me? :-)
Anyway, thanks for being honest. :-)
Cheers,
Venkat
--
ven...@jetson.uh.edu | If you love something,set it free.
ven...@menudo.uh.edu | If it comes back, it is yours.
ven...@uhupvm1.uh.edu | If it does not, it never was.
ar...@tree.egr.uh.edu(NeXT mails OK)|
ar...@lisa.cc.uh.edu (-do-) |
(713)225-6426(h) & (713)743-4250(w) |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mahesh V Tripunitara
>better memory, for example, while males are more inventive and can think
>more logically. Proof of this fact is the sharp decline in female student
>population that we saw in engineering colleges in Kerala, when the
>admission criterion was changed from marks scored in PDC to entrance
>examinations.
Never thought the engineering entrance exam in Kerala tested one's
inventiveness or originality...was very similar to the CBSE XII exam
when I took it, only, multiple-choice. And when I showed up at REC
Calicut for the interview, more than half of my fellow interviewees
were women (girls). By the way, this was after admission into one
of the RECs was also tied to the entrance exam.
Mahesh.
--
"Who's been eating my porridge ?", squeaked Baby Bear.
"Who's been eating *my* porridge ?", cried Mother Bear.
"BURP!", said Father Bear.
Venu Nayar
> All right. It is time for some honesty. I am man enough to admit that
>I am put off by intelligence in women. Intelligence makes a woman
>less interesting. I think intelligent women are really men trapped in
>women's bodies. Men and women are different not just physically but also
>mentally. If a woman has a mind that thinks like a man she wouldn't really
>be much of a woman.
all right. what makes you think that any of us are being dishonest? i like
intelligent people...be they women or men. i find a date with a person who
doesn't have any views of their own incredibly boring. maybe i am just
crazy. whatever.
> Call me sexist. Call me a male chauvinist. But the simple biological
>truth is, a female brain is different from a male brain. Females have
>better memory, for example, while males are more inventive and can think
>more logically. Proof of this fact is the sharp decline in female student
>population that we saw in engineering colleges in Kerala, when the
>admission criterion was changed from marks scored in PDC to entrance
>examinations.
do you really think this way, rajeev? or are you merely playing a part? i
dont understand anyone who would say that an "intelligent woman are really
men trapped in women's bodies". i can only hope that this was meant
toungue-in-cheek.
Sudha Neelakantan
mchu...@chaph.usc.edu (Mohan Verghese Chunkath) writes:
> This is the first time that I have logged on to this
> newsgroup and I thoroughly enjoyed the gender issues
> discussion. As a male of the species, one thing has always
> intrigued me. Why is it that even the most ardent female
> feminist (there are male feminists also) when it comes to
> marriage wants a partner who is smarter if not as smart as
> she is. I always got the distinct impression that women
> feel distinctly uncomfortable about the idea of a lifetime
> partner who is not more intelligent than herself. Do others
> agree? What are the opinions of the women on the net?
>
> Mohan Chunkath
Well, I don't know how many people here are fans of XTC
but heres a transcript of a song:
THE MAYOR OF SIMPLETON
Never been near a university, Never took a paper or a learned
degree, and some of your friends might think thats stupid of me,
but its nothing that i care about.
Well, I don't know how to tell the weight of the sun, and
of mathematics, well, I want none, and i may be the mayor of
simpleton, but i know one thing and that's i love you. when
their logic grows cold and all thinking gets done, you'll be warm
in the arms of the mayor of simpleton.
i can't have been there when brains were handed round.
please be upstanding for the mayor of simpleton. or get past
the cover of your books profound. please be upstanding for the
mayor of simpleton and some of your friends think thats really
unsound that you're even seen talking to me.
well, i don't know how to write a big hit song and all
the crossword puzzles well i just shun. and i may be the mayor of
simpleton, but i know one thing and thats i love you.
i'm not proud of the fact that i never learned much, just
feel i should say, what you get is all real. i can't put on an
act, it takes brains to do that anyway. and anyway...
and i can't unravel riddles problems and puns, how the
home computer has me on the run, and i may be the mayor of
simpleton but i know one thing and that i love you, i love you
if depth of feeling is a currency, please be upstanding
for the mayor of simpleton. then i'm the man who grew the money
tree, no chain of office and no hope of getting one. some of
your friends are too brainy to see that they're paupers and
that's how they'll stay.
well i don't know how many pounds make up a ton fo all
the nobel prizes that i've never won, and i may be the mayor of
simpleton. but i know one thing and thats i love you. when all
logic grows cold and all that thinking gets done, you'll be warm
in the arms of the mayor of simpleton.
[i stopped because i'm sick of typing :-)]
but i guess the gist is the same, i think oftentimes we measure
intelligence or worth by the wrong parameters. it sounds weird
when a man mouths back the same stereotypes that women are
supposed to personify to a woman. i certainly found that song
appealing. i might even get a ph.d. myself, i found myself
wondering about how much weight i might put on the degrees etc.
that might be a minimum acceptable requirement. do i care
whether my so has a high school diploma? i think probably not,
tho i don't know how acceptable my family would find that. i
thought about my relationship with my granmother and greatgranny
- my greatgran can't even hear anymore, she's in her late
nineties, and yet we try to communicate and do so successfully.
we care about each other. and that bridges so many gaps. not so
long ago, when i was a teen, my grandmother could share
my being gaga over my favorite pop stars, and would call me if
one of them showed up on TV, on a talk show etc, though she would
add a disapproving comment at that shoulderless dress someone was
wearing.
true, i personally would want someone i can communicate with,
completely knowing that theyd understand, or try. if that takes
intelligence, then i need it, but i think it takes only caring
about the other person and respecting them as an individual.
Narcissus
>
>THE MAYOR OF SIMPLETON
>Never been near a university, Never took a paper or a learned
>degree, and some of your friends might think thats stupid of me,
>but its nothing that i care about.
>
>
>[i stopped because i'm sick of typing :-)]
i am sick of reading it...
>
>but i guess the gist is the same, i think oftentimes we measure
>intelligence or worth by the wrong parameters.
that sounds like a very philosophical conjecture.
>it sounds weird
>when a man mouths back the same stereotypes that women are
>supposed to personify to a woman.
certainly.
>i certainly found that song
>appealing.
a matter of "individual" taste.
>i might even get a ph.d. myself, i found myself
>wondering about how much weight i might put on the degrees etc.
>that might be a minimum acceptable requirement.
in many cases thats the only requirement. probably you dont think about
how you reached this point.
> do i care
>whether my so has a high school diploma? i think probably not,
certainly a very high ideal to hold on to. but isnt it the the same you
wavering at the second sentence??
>tho i don't know how acceptable my family would find that.
in most cases, they will find it uncomfortable.
>i
>thought about my relationship with my granmother and greatgranny
>- my greatgran can't even hear anymore, she's in her late
>nineties, and yet we try to communicate and do so successfully.
>we care about each other.
i wonder what you are driving at.. is communication the only thing in
life!
>and that bridges so many gaps. not so
>long ago, when i was a teen, my grandmother could share
>my being gaga over my favorite pop stars, and would call me if
>one of them showed up on TV, on a talk show etc, though she would
>add a disapproving comment at that shoulderless dress someone was
>wearing.
?!?!!!!
>
>true, i personally would want someone i can communicate with,
>completely knowing that theyd understand, or try. if that takes
>intelligence, then i need it, but i think it takes only caring
>about the other person and respecting them as an individual.
generally communication needs intelligence. its a question of how much
you want. it is natural that you go for an optimum combination of
intelligence and communicatoin skills.
>
>Sudha
mathai chundattu
U34...@uicvm.uic.edu
pages of letters and passionately read the replies over and over. As the years
went by, I have not lost a bit of that passion to read (as I have been
feverishly following up most of the articles on ack) but somehow lost the
patience to coagulate my thought patterns on to a medium, presentable to
others. Somehow, I managed to write few lines late last night and hope to hit
the board tonight.
Years ago, I read a novel `Virgo' by Jacqueline Susan (hope I got the author
right). It is a fiction, a total hallucination, probably the only one of its
kind I ever read (as a matter of fact I've read very few). `Virgo' is a planet
inhabited by a civilization that practises no differences based on race, color,
culture, creed or gender. Every `body' on the planet talks a common language,
there are no borders or no countries (like India(Kerala(Quilon(Timbattu(little
Timbattu(micro Timbattu)))))) - an ideal world that I dream of - every body
believe in one God (M (s/r) Virgo is their God), they all look alike and even
dress identical! I liked the concept. They practise absolute equality, what
this world is heading towards, as some say...
The best part of `Virgo' is that there is no gender discrimination. A male is a
male and a female is a female, but there is no discrimination. They even dress
alike. There is no discrimination between a female engineer or a male engineer,
a male scientist or a female scientist. No discrimination in board room or
boarding room alike. The concept of family is not known to them. Excellent!
They practise absolute individualism, though they survive together. The
immediate question is how do they sustain life without reproduction (a primary
key the family structure is founded on)? They have industries that produce
children! There are professionals or skilled `Virgeons' who bear offsprings.
Nannies and Ammas are professionals trained to feed and rear. Any body (female
or male) may chose that profession if that is what they want to do in their
life. Fabulous! Ultimate individulaism.I liked the concept and dreamt of it
many nights, even days.
The most interesting aspect is that there is no emotion. They never experience
joy, sorrow, reverence, hate or love. Nothing like Nadan Premam is ever heard
of. The story is about the `Virgeons' abducting a girl (human, if you will)
from earth. When this poor soul started to weep, they gathered around her to
examine the tears, "a secretion by lachrymal glands, produced on strong
agitation by passions or sensibilities involving physiological variations".
Their historians say that their grand, grand ancestors exhibited this
phenomenon, but this generation no more does. How I wished, we too never had
this phenomenon, the emotions! The anger, the tears, the laughters, the love!!
How I wished, my dreams come true!!!
But lately, somehow I no more fit into this hallucination anymore. Like XTC in
`Wrapped in Gray'...
Some folks see the world as a stone
Concrete daubed in dull monotone
...........................
.....................
Some folks pull this life like a weight
Drab and dragging dreams made of slate
..........................
..........
but, Don't let the loveless ones sell you
A world wrapped in grey
And in the very least you can
Stand up naked and
Grin
Recently, I read parts of "Family in Transition" by A/J S Skolnick (1989) that
discussed the dramatic changes to family life in America. In the last few
decades, the divorce rates rose astronomically before it stabilized at an all
time high figure. The women folks invaded all spheres of life. The way the men
and women think and co-exist within the home and outside changed. Many social
rules and moralities never exist anymore. Abortion is legal, couples live
together openly without marrying, unmarried mothers proudly rear illicit
children, homosexuality become a plausible form of behavior... All these
changes happened within a span of three to four decades. A decade is 10 years I
guess. Amazing! Then it all happened in less than 40 years! Just 10 or 15 years
before most of us were born, the family configuration was that of a dominant
male bread winner and a full time housewife living together with two, three or
more children.
At this rate Virgo is not a far cry. A planet where creatures have no names,
they go by numbers, like,
U34301
_____________________________________________________________________________
"Spring sweet spring, the years pleasant king
When blooms each thing, the maids dance in a ring"
______________________________________________________________________________
Sudha Neelakantan
on ack.There were days when I used to write [deleted...] > At
this rate Virgo is not a far cry. A planet where creatures have
no names, > they go by numbers, like, > > U34301 > >
_____________________________________________________________________________
> > "Spring sweet spring, the years pleasant king > When blooms
each thing, the maids dance in a ring" >
______________________________________________________________________________
by equating it to a world wrapped in gray. your parallel is
flawed in the sense that treating all people as equal, as
individuals with a right to their own lives will not lead to that
decline. i can more easily see that decay in a society that
suppresses different groups as unacceptable and capable of only
one thing. your world looked bleak if each person could only
choose to do one thing at one time. did it support your
aspirations, your dreams? do you envisage that treating women as
equally capable would lead to both doing all tasks? i don't see
where a world that respects everyone and supports all without
bias could go wrong. to quote more Tagore
Where the mind is without fear
and the head is held high
where knowledge is free
into that heaven of freedom...
i don't see virgeon as that land. tho i can see that
if people were not prejudged based on their gender
or the color of their skin.
pr...@dollarbill.austin.ibm.com
>If men and women had equal and identical minds, then attraction, love
>and marriage will have to be based on differences in male-female
>anatomy alone. That will hasten the arrival of planet virgio.
>I hope this serves as conclusive proof that dumb-blondes are as important
>to the survival of mankind as the air we breath.
>
And dumb studs too...for the survival of womankind? :-)
Devakumar Sreevijayan
> i can more easily see that decay in a society that
>suppresses different groups as unacceptable and capable of only
>one thing. your world looked bleak if each person could only
>choose to do one thing at one time. did it support your
>aspirations, your dreams? do you envisage that treating women as
>equally capable would lead to both doing all tasks? i don't see
>where a world that respects everyone and supports all without
A far more insidious problem exists, in my opinion. And this problem
is not confined to India alone. Do women even dare to dream? Does
society (and family--quite often the root of the problem) encourage
women to aspire to certain things? I think the answer is a sad no. In
general, of course.
The recent (last week, I think) exercise where parents took their
daughters to work here in the U.S., to show them what is possible,
illustrates this point, I think. A study showed that girls at about
puberty, when the whole boy-girl dynamics kick in, lose all interest
in a career (higher aspirations, if you will) and generally start
behaving like cute airheads. This is sad. Does a similar problem exist
in the Indian context? I am not sure. Comments?
Dev